grammar questions, anyone?
kadi...@gte.net
In article <352BC04D...@pacific.net>,
Max <mar...@pacific.net> wrote:
>
> I think this is great, Paula, and I enjoyed the grammer lesson from your
> earlier post. My first question. Is the confusion of tenses of Filipinos
> speaking English (Usually past tense where present is indicated) due do the
> fact that the infinitives in Tagalog (and probably other Filipine
> languages) is the same as the past tense whereas in English the infinitive
> is the same as the present tense (this may be an over-generalization)? Any
> input on the tense confusion would be appreciated.
>
> Max
> Hi, Max
> I don't think it has anything to do with
> infinitives. You must understand that unlike
> Americans or other English speaking
> countries, Filipinos learn their English mostly
> in school. Outside school, (mostly) we
> converse in our own dialect. In other words,
> the conversational practice of English is quite
> limited for us. Books, newspaper, especially > the the media, help us understand and make > us remember what we have learned in school.
> But, understanding and conversing are two
> different things. In our dialects, tenses like the
> English grammar, is conversed properly, as we
> grew up with it and converse with it all the
> time. Now, when we speak English, especially
> when excited, agitated, or deeply immersed in
> an English conversation with an English
> speaking person or group (the latter is much
> harder to do) we translate English mentally
> so fast that we, a lot of times, forget grammar
> rules. If you would notice, a lot of Filipinos
> write much better in English than converse
> with it. The reason for this is, we could think > about grammar much easier because we > have more time to re-read or re-write our > English composition. Of course, this does not > very much apply to Filipinos educated in > expensive and exclusive private schools in the
> Philippines where conversational practice is
> much more practiced and scrutinized. Myself,
> I am an avid book reader. I've lived in the
> United States for 17 years, but I always catch
> myself, making those mistakes. A lot of times
> I say he instead of she, my tenses get mixed
> up, and of course, my "f" comes out "p". By
> the way, we (tagalog) don't have a "he" or a
> "she" instead, we have the word "siya" for it. > Thus, the mix up
whenever we translate
> from Tagalog to English.
> In my experience (I don't speak for others),
> I find that whenever I speak English, I think
> in Tagalog mentally first and then translate
> it into English but sometimes the translation
> gets jumbled up whenever I am talking
> excitedly so fast. In fact, sometimes, when
> I am mad at my daughter, I don't even notice
> that I have been talking in Tagalog instead
> of English. I would only realize it when I see
> her glassy-eyed look of bewilderment.
> I hope my explanation is making some sense
> to you. I don't know how to explain it much
> better. The more I try to make my explanation
> much more simple the more it becomes
> complicated for me. LOL!!!!!
> sincerely
> kadiwara
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Max
I certainly understand the difficulties in translation to a second language, not regularly used, especially in conversations. In written correspondence with numerous Filipinas, I find that invariable English past tense forms are used where present tense is meant. Conversely, past tense forms I have used have been interpreted as being present tense.
The gender confusion is easy to understand, since Tagalog (and other Malasian languages) have only one form for the second person pronoun (which is, I believe, the only case where English has gender differentiation.)
Appreciate your input.
Max
Paula Angeles-Leiby
kadi...@gte.net wrote:
> In article <352BC04D...@pacific.net>,
> Max <mar...@pacific.net> wrote:
> >
> > I think this is great, Paula, and I enjoyed the grammer lesson from your
> > earlier post. My first question. Is the confusion of tenses of Filipinos
> > speaking English (Usually past tense where present is indicated) due do the
> > fact that the infinitives in Tagalog (and probably other Filipine
> > languages) is the same as the past tense whereas in English the infinitive
> > is the same as the present tense (this may be an over-generalization)? Any
> > input on the tense confusion would be appreciated.
Thanks Kadiwara for the repost of this! The question is for Max really.
Max, can you give me a sample sentence that is incorrect as you described it above (using past tense versus present when present tense is meant)? I'm thinking of a sample incorrect sentence and I'm coming up with "using present tense when past is meant."
Otherwise, if I am thinking what I'm thinking, I'll post the analysis of it later on today. I have to consult my Filipino grammar book first... hehehe..
-- Paula