"Neg" (sp?)
Ray Jones
A member of my New Orleans Mailing List brought to mind the word "neg"
which I now recall having heard many Cajun's use SEEMINGLY as a term of
endearment similar to "cher.'"
The only definition anyone can come up with has racist tones, however.
What is the definition of "neg?"
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
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Cliff Hebert
According to my info, the root of the term is indeed racist. However, it is
used as a generic "pet" name for anyone, such as bud, guy, dude, etc. It is
not meant in any derogatory fashion.
Cliff
Ray Jones <rayj...@praline.no.neosoft.com> wrote in article
<Pine.NEB.3.95.97022...@praline.no.neosoft.com>...
bernard
Ray Jones <rayj...@praline.no.neosoft.com> wrote in article
<Pine.NEB.3.95.97022...@praline.no.neosoft.com>...
> A member of my New Orleans Mailing List brought to mind the word "neg"
the term `neg`` is coming from the french word nègre.
the translation from nigger
but the word nègre in french has not the same power than english
j. bernard quebec
Shane K. Bernard
Ray Jones <rayj...@praline.no.neosoft.com> wrote:
>The only definition anyone can come up with has racist tones, however.
>What is the definition of "neg?"
As someone pointed out already, "Nègre" is the French word for "black
person"; the feminine form appears in the Cajun song popularized by
Nathan Abshire, "Pine Grove Blues":
Hey nègresse,
Ou t'as ete hier soir, ma nègresse?
In this instance, "nègresse" is being used as a term of endearment, as
John Broven observes in "South to Louisiana: Music of the Cajun
Bayous" (1983).
SKB
Cajun in Exile
***
Shane K. Bernard (skb...@unix.tamu.edu)
Visit the Cajun & Creole Pages at:
http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~skb8721/
And the Swamp Pop Music Pages at:
http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~skb8721/swamp.html
Ray Jones
On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Shane K. Bernard wrote:
> As someone pointed out already, "N=E8gre" is the French word for "black
I was aware of that, but I could have sworn that on many occasions I've
heard one Cajun call another Cajun "negre" as a term of endearment when
neither was Black. Am I mis-remembering or were they just having fun with
one another calling each other Black?
If that's not it, why would Cajuns call one another "negre" (if indeed
they do) as a term of endearment?
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
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Bob McBride
Ray Jones wrote:
>
> On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Shane K. Bernard wrote:
>
>
> I was aware of that, but I could have sworn that on many occasions I've
> heard one Cajun call another Cajun "negre" as a term of endearment when
> neither was Black. Am I mis-remembering or were they just having fun with
> one another calling each other Black?
>
> If that's not it, why would Cajuns call one another "negre" (if indeed
> they do) as a term of endearment?
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Ray Jones
> ****************************************************************
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> Licensed Tour Guide
>
> Historical Tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans
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It has always been a practice to use the terms "neg" and "te neg" as
terms of endearment usually to small children in the family. Literally
it means black person or little black person and I don't know how it got
started but I have heard the term used all my life (64 years) and I know
it was around a lot longer than that. Perhaps someone else knows the
origin of its use.
Bob McBride
Shane K. Bernard
Ray Jones <rayj...@praline.no.neosoft.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Shane K. Bernard wrote:
>I was aware of that, but I could have sworn that on many occasions I've
>heard one Cajun call another Cajun "negre" as a term of endearment when
>neither was Black.
That's right. That's why I cited the lyrics to Nathan Abshire's song
"Pine Grove Blues," in which he presumably refers to a Cajun (i.e.,
white) girlfriend or wife as his "negresse" (black woman).
"Pine Grove Blues" is based on an earlier song by another Cajun
musician, Columbus Fruge, and that song is titled "Tite Negresse."
(I see the accents I used for "negre" and "negresse" were scrambled in
my original posting, so I omit the accents here.)
kikers
Ray Jones wrote:
>
> A member of my New Orleans Mailing List brought to mind the word "neg"
> endearment similar to "cher.'"
>
> The only definition anyone can come up with has racist tones, however.
> What is the definition of "neg?"
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray Jones
> ****************************************************************
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> Licensed Tour Guide
>
> Historical Tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans
> in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying its ambiance
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>
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> Thu. thru Mon. 5 p.m. to midnight (appx.)
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especially in the summer since we all had dark skin anyway and would get
really tan. When i got older, I asked my mother about the
meaning/origin. She thought that Cajuns called each other that because
they always had to "work like niggers" to get ahead. My non-Cajun
father confirms that until the 60's, the Cajuns in SE Texas (you hardly
hear or see anything written about us) were considered to be on the same
social level as blacks.
Russell Betts
As I read the postings here I see that most of you who have replied, carry
the theme that this term is a term of endearment. I do not think you would
feel the same way about this term if you had been a black person growing up
in Louisiana(I assume that most of you are not). This is a term I have
heard many times growing up and have seen it cause many altercations. How
can most of you refer to this term as a term of endearment when you know
historically how demeaning it was to so many people who were born,
worked(some slaved) and helped build the state that you hold so dear to
your hearts?
As to cajuns refering to each other by this term, I feel it must be in
jest. Do you feel a sense of endearment when one of your friends calls you
an "ass," "jerk," "dick," then why would this term be any different.
I hope no one uses this term as it is highly insulting to me and to all
black people not only from Louisiana but everywhere. Please think about
this the next time you hear or refer to a person as "te &*%"
Russell
Ray Jones <rayj...@praline.no.neosoft.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Shane K. Bernard wrote:
>
> > As someone pointed out already, "Nègre" is the French word for "black
>
> I was aware of that, but I could have sworn that on many occasions I've
> heard one Cajun call another Cajun "negre" as a term of endearment when
> neither was Black. Am I mis-remembering or were they just having fun with
> one another calling each other Black?
>
> If that's not it, why would Cajuns call one another "negre" (if indeed
> they do) as a term of endearment?
>
>
Bob McBride
this topic that suggests racist overtones to the use of the term "negre"
as a term of endearment. You can be assured that, although I do not
know the origin of its use, it is a term of endearment and is never
taken in any other way than that. It has been used this way for many
years and continues to this day. Looking for racist interpretations in
this practice is trying to raise issues that I don't believe exist in
this instance.
Bob McBride
sa...@primenet.com
Russell:Come down from the high horse.No one in here is trying to insult you or any
other black person.This thread started as a simple question to find the meaning of a
word and it's use.I'm a native cajun in exile and i've heard the term all my life.You
are trying to bring a racial overtone to something that does not deserve it.Save the
criticism and preaching for a subject that deserves it(EBONICS PERHAPS????????Now that
is a slap in the face to the Black race).
Mike Dehart
Tom Coleman
I know the literal translation of "neg," but doubt seriously that is the
connotation when used by Cajuns. My grandmother constantly refered to the
grandchildren as t-neg, and I was what she refered to as a "white-headed
Boudreaux." She was a Boudreaux from Jeanerette.
My brothers and sister to this day refer to one another as neg. I agree
with the reference to pet or dear one. I think this is closer to the
meaning.
kjn...@cris.com
Ray Jones <rayj...@praline.no.neosoft.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Shane K. Bernard wrote:
>> As someone pointed out already, "N=E8gre" is the French word for "black
>I was aware of that, but I could have sworn that on many occasions I've
>heard one Cajun call another Cajun "negre" as a term of endearment when
>neither was Black. Am I mis-remembering or were they just having fun with
>one another calling each other Black?
>If that's not it, why would Cajuns call one another "negre" (if indeed
>they do) as a term of endearment?
>--
>Regards,
>Ray Jones
>****************************************************************
I can't exactly answer why so many men in Acadiana go by the
nickname "NEG"...but they do... and it isn't the least bit
derogatory..
Even in english, the nickname " Black" or "Blackie" is very
common..(As in Blackie Forrestier..etc.)
its a cultural thing...get used to it!!!
Tony Simon
kjn...@cris.com
rbe...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Russell Betts) wrote:
>As I read the postings here I see that most of you who have replied, carry
>the theme that this term is a term of endearment. I do not think you would
>feel the same way about this term if you had been a black person growing up
>in Louisiana(I assume that most of you are not). This is a term I have
>heard many times growing up and have seen it cause many altercations. How
>can most of you refer to this term as a term of endearment when you know
>historically how demeaning it was to so many people who were born,
>worked(some slaved) and helped build the state that you hold so dear to
>your hearts?
>As to cajuns refering to each other by this term, I feel it must be in
>jest. Do you feel a sense of endearment when one of your friends calls you
>an "ass," "jerk," "dick," then why would this term be any different.
>I hope no one uses this term as it is highly insulting to me and to all
>black people not only from Louisiana but everywhere. Please think about
>this the next time you hear or refer to a person as "te &*%"
>Russell
I was not going to get involved with this thread until I saw this
post...I figured that most people posting had no grasp of what they
were talking about, judging from the posts.. ( Shane and Ray
excepted...)
This is a prime example of American cultural prejudice... where do
you people get off thinking that the LITERAL transaltion of a word
automatically translates to racism???
Everyone here generally recognizes that Cajun is a different
CULTURE...am I right??? As opposed to mainstream America???
Then somewhere down the line...y'all need to realize that words in
Cajun french often carry different meanings... Hell... some Cajun
french words have different meanings even within Acadiana!!! ( Do we
have to start the thread again about the words used for turtle
meat???? One of those words can insult quite a few women...IF you
don't have the cultural maturity to understand WHAT the speaker is
meaning when the word is spoken!!!)
Basically...GROW UP PEOPLE!!! You're judging things from your very
closed minded Les Americains point of view...
I am not saying that the word "neg" CANNOT be racist..used in the
incorrect manner it sure as hell can be...
But...in MOST instances... it carries a CULTURALLY differerent
meaning ... and generally is NOT racist...
Tony Simon
Shane K. Bernard
rbe...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Russell Betts) wrote:
>As I read the postings here I see that most of you who have replied, carry
>the theme that this term is a term of endearment. I do not think you would
>feel the same way about this term if you had been a black person growing up
>in Louisiana. . . .
I think we should remember, tho', that the word we're discussing here
is "neg'" (with a French accent mark over the "e"), which is a Cajun
French abbreviation of the standard French word "negre" (also with
accent mark), which in French carries no negative racial connotations
. . it merely means "black person."
I.e., the Cajun term "neg" does not come from the English ethnic slur
"ni**er" -- although all these words, French and English, and also,
for instance, the word "Negro," ultimately stem from the Latin
"niger," meaning "black."
So, in short, we shouldn't read mainstream American connotations into
the French words "neg" or "negre" . . . this being said, I can still
imagine that the use of "neg" among Cajuns could contain negative
racial connotations, depending on its context . . . for example, I've
often heard it employed in the phrase "My neg," implying ownership or
superiority.
Ray Jones
On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Bob McBride wrote:
> Russell Betts wrote:
> >
> > As I read the postings here I see that most of you who have replied, carry
> > the theme that this term is a term of endearment. I do not think you would
Russell,
What has been said is, "that others in the past used the term as an
endearment among White Cajuns." None (to my knowledge) admitted to using
it today as a term of endearment or otherwise.
> > feel the same way about this term if you had been a black person growing up
> > in Louisiana(I assume that most of you are not). This is a term I have
> > heard many times growing up and have seen it cause many altercations. How
> > can most of you refer to this term as a term of endearment when you know
> > historically how demeaning it was to so many people who were born,
> > worked(some slaved) and helped build the state that you hold so dear to
> > your hearts?
While I (and I suspect others) sympathize with the such treatment, it
has nothing to do with the topic at hand. We're not condoning nor
condemning it's use. We're just discussing it.
Someone on the New Orleans Mailing List (I'm the list owner) brought up
the topic. In doing so, they reminded me that I had indeed heard the term
and had always heard it as a term of endearment between White Cajuns.
I was the one who brought the topic to this newsgroup in an attempt to
understand WHY White Cajuns would use the word "Black" as a term of
endearment to one another.
Most have confirmed that it was indeed used as a term of endearment
between White Cajuns but thus far no one has been able to explain why.
There was no racism intended on my part nor on anyone else involved in the
discussion until you brought it up.
It might or might not have involved racism to begin with, but that is not
the issue. We're just exploring the issue not condoning nor condemning it.
> > As to cajuns refering to each other by this term, I feel it must be in
> > jest. Do you feel a sense of endearment when one of your friends calls you
> > an "ass," "jerk," "dick," then why would this term be any different.
Actually, some do just as I often hear one Black person call another
"nigger." Most of the people I work with as wekk as my best friend are
Black. I hear it all of the time. Why? I don't know, but it is.
The Whites also call each other names all of the time. I've never
understood why grown men would do so, but they do nevertheless. There's
enough racism around without trying to find it where none exists.
> > I hope no one uses this term as it is highly insulting to me and to all
> > black people not only from Louisiana but everywhere. Please think about
> > this the next time you hear or refer to a person as "te &*%"
I, for one, thank you for letting us know how some feel about it's use.
The discussion of people's feelings can go a long way toward tearing down
barriers.
However, I'd still like to know WHY it was used as a term of endearment
between White Cajuns whether it was right or wrong.
Rather than cause dissension among the newsgroup users, anyone wishing to
do so can reply to me via private e-mail.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************
Boisy Pitre
> My Grandmother, Ola Royer of Hamshire, TX used would say "cher te neg"
> especially in the summer since we all had dark skin anyway and would get
> really tan. When i got older, I asked my mother about the
> meaning/origin. She thought that Cajuns called each other that because
> they always had to "work like niggers" to get ahead. My non-Cajun
> father confirms that until the 60's, the Cajuns in SE Texas (you hardly
> hear or see anything written about us) were considered to be on the same
> social level as blacks.
I believe the proper spelling is "negre". Yes, it's a commonly used term
here in Acadiana, especially used by older people when talking to young[er]
men. My uncle called me "negre" as long as I can remember, and even up
until he died last year.
It's also used in a few Cajun songs like Eunice Waltz:
Tu viens pas a la maison pour rejoindre ton negre.
In this context, the singer is referring to himself as negre. I take this
to mean: "You will not come to the house to be with your man."
I use the word negre from time to time when talking with male friends.
I've never run across anyone who took offense to it, but then again, I'm
aware that some people may be sensitive to its pronunciation and inferred
meaning, and am careful when and how I use it.
--
Boisy G. Pitre Work: bo...@microware.com
Microware Systems Corporation Pager: 088...@pagenet.net
Web: http://www.acadian.net/~boisy
kikers
Russell Betts wrote:
>
> As I read the postings here I see that most of you who have replied, carry
> the theme that this term is a term of endearment. I do not think you would
> in Louisiana(I assume that most of you are not). This is a term I have
> heard many times growing up and have seen it cause many altercations. How
> can most of you refer to this term as a term of endearment when you know
> historically how demeaning it was to so many people who were born,
> worked(some slaved) and helped build the state that you hold so dear to
> your hearts?
>
> jest. Do you feel a sense of endearment when one of your friends calls you
> an "ass," "jerk," "dick," then why would this term be any different.
>
> black people not only from Louisiana but everywhere. Please think about
> this the next time you hear or refer to a person as "te &*%"
>
> >
> >
> > I was aware of that, but I could have sworn that on many occasions I've
> > heard one Cajun call another Cajun "negre" as a term of endearment when
> > neither was Black. Am I mis-remembering or were they just having fun with
> > one another calling each other Black?
> >
> > If that's not it, why would Cajuns call one another "negre" (if indeed
> > they do) as a term of endearment?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ray Jones
> > ****************************************************************
those terms that can go both ways such as "Coon Ass". Calling a Cajun
that will either get you a laugh or a knuckle sandwich, depending on the
way and reason you say it. As for being historically ignorant of the
origin of the term neg, negre, etc., just point us to the title of the
book where you got all your historically-accurate information so that we
may be as free and enlightened as you.
Aaron Kiker
Brian Comeaux
Been offline for a while and parachute right into the middle of this
controversial topic. The answer to the original question, which as I
take it was whether the word "nègre" carries a pejorative connotation in
south Louisiana is, "It depends". (By the way the word is properly
written, "nègre" in its masculine form and "négresse" in its feminine
form.)
Beginning with the formal definition from Larousse:
nègre, négresse-n. (du latin "niger" noir) 1. Personne de race noir
(L'utilisation fréquente de ce mot dans ces contextes racistes lui fait
généralement préférer aujourd'hui le terme neutre de "noir".) 2. anc.-
Esclave noir, "Les nègres d'une plantation." 3. "Travailler comme un
nègre", travailler très dur, sans relâche.
translation--
nègre, négress-noun (from latin, "niger" black) 1, a person of the black
race (The frequent utilization of this word in its racist context makes
it generally preferable today to use the neutral term, "black". 2.
ancient-Black Slave, as in "the "nègres" of a plantation."3. "Work like a
"negre"--to work very hard without rest.
This definition pretty much describes the south Louisiana situation with
the exception of the fact that it is true that the term can be a neutral
or even friendly appellation for a friend or even a nickname,
particularly in the case of a white person who has either a dark
complexion or kinky hair.
Even in that case, it has to be used with care. No one in south
Louisiana who speaks French well , for example, would call his wife "ma
négresse", or at least certainly not in polite company. To do so would
be considered extremely "basse classe" or low class. This is because
that term would more frequently be used to refer (in a racist
connotation) to one's black maid or even one's black mistress.
The word takes on a definite raciste connotation when it is used (and not
infrequently in south Louisiana, I am afraid) to refer to a black person
who works for a white person. A conversation might go like this this:
J'vas aller chercher mon nègre pour qu'il m'aide a tuer le cochon.
translation-I am going to go get my nègre so that he can help me kill the
pig.
Here the word is used in exactly the same connotation as the english word,
"nigger".
There are black men in south Louisiana today who little or no identity in
white society beyond being "le nègre à qui et qui" (so and so's nigger).
This is an unfortunate fact about life in south Louisiana. You don't
hear it as much today as you did when I was growing up in rural western
Lafayette Parish, but you DO still hear it.
Even when used as a term of endearment, caution is advised. For example,
the song referred to by Shane, the Pine Grove Blues or "Ma Négresse" by
Nathan Abshire, I believe is about a cheating wife or girlfriend and
revolves around a refrain as follows:
Ma négresse, où t'as couché hier soir?
My négresse, where did you sleep last night?
Iry Lejeune's "Lacassine Special" says in part:
Si tu veut plus rester avec ton cher vieux nègre, tu peut prendre le
chemin et t'en aller.
If you don't want to stay with your dear old "nègre" you can hit the road
and get out of here.
In short, this deals with fairly subtle differentiations in nuance and
is definately for the "advanced" cajun french class.
BGC
Ray Jones
On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, kikers wrote:
> I hate to explain via analogy, but here goes. i guess it is one of
> those terms that can go both ways such as "Coon Ass". Calling a Cajun
> that will either get you a laugh or a knuckle sandwich, depending on the
> way and reason you say it. As for being historically ignorant of the
Exactly, it is not "what one says" (as a rule) but HOW one says it.
> origin of the term neg, negre, etc., just point us to the title of the
> book where you got all your historically-accurate information so that we
> may be as free and enlightened as you.
You replied to a post which had quotes from multiple people most of which
made similar comments. You included the entire message without editing and
made your comments at the end so I'm not sure who you're addressing here.
While, I'm not naive enough to think everyone would know such information,
it IS common knowledge and can be found in just about any book. If you
look in any good dictionary; a good encyclopedia; a book concerning
French, Spanish, Latin, Italian or other romance language; a history book
about Louisiana, the Carribean, or South America; decent travel book; a
book of etymology and many others, you can easily find the information.
> > Aaron Kiker
Word origins, derivatives, etc. is a fun subject. On that note, I'm
intrigued by your name. "Aaron" is a name found often in the Bible. I'm
not sure of the origin, but it is often used by Hebrews. "Kyke" (sp?) is a
Hebrew word meaning (I believe) "tightwad" or something similar.
I mean no offense, but I can't help wondering if that is your real
name or a moniker?
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************
kikers
vouch for them since I studies German where "neger" is the well-meaning,
non-derogatory (to Germans) term for a black person. The importance
here is not to inject american racist terms into foreign or
foreign-derived non-racist terms. The term neg being one. Don't assume
that because the person using the term is from Louisiana and chews
tobacco and listens to Hank, Jr. that he is a racist.
As for your second question, no, I'm not a Jew, and yes it is my real
name. You are not the first to ask. My surname was changed during my
anscestors assimilation into American society (orig. "Keicher"). I am
interested, in light of Sec. State Albright's discovery that she is a
Jew, in finding out more about "Cryptic Jews". An episode of Doogie
Howser addressed this issue a few years back. A couple from Louisiana
had a child suffering from Tay Sachs disease. Like sickle cell anemia,
tay sachs predominates in one population group...this case - Jews. But
the people weren't jewish. Evidently, the town of either Iowa or Iota
has a higher-than-normal rate to Tay Sachs. Could there be Cryptic Jews
among the Cajuns? Maybe I'm one. In any case, thanks for sharing your
expertise on ethnic slurs and their meaning.
Gary L. Bertrand
Regarding Negre
In his dictionary, Msgr Daigle makes the point that the Cajun use of Negre usually
has no connotation of race, as several have pointed out here. I suspect that the
term of endearment originated with the Southern usage of "my (your) nigger" in
place of "slave". I have often heard a male refer to himself as a woman's "negre",
but I can't recall a woman referring to her man or a man referring to his woman
as her/his "negre".
It's possible that the usage for a child "cher ti negre" or a friend "vieux negre"
developed independently from the case above, but certainly the two usages would
be reinforcing.
I think I've previously recounted here the story of a Cajun friend in New Orleans
around 1960 (yes, there are SOME Cajuns in NO) shouting out in a bowling alley
when I'd gotten a strike at a critical time, "That's my Nigger!" To me, the term is
completely acceptable in French, but in English, I considered it offensive to both
me and any blacks that may have been around.
There was some discussion of "rice and gravy" as a Cajun dish, and certainly the
gravy my mother cooked was different from anything I've ever seen in a
restaurant, clear meat juices with a little grease floating on top. There was a
family joke that my mother was so proficient at making gravy from anything,
that once when she'd boiled some eggs my father asked, "Where's the gravy?"
Would that qualify for "You may be a coonass if ..."?
Gary
Justme
With all due respect to people of all races, my nickname when I was a child
was t-neg. I grew up in a racially mixed town, and everyone, white and
black, called me by this name. Why? Simply because I was dark. My Mom
called me by that name for years, and she is by no means racist. She was
born an Acadia plantation in Thibideaux where my grandfather was working as
a night watchman for one dollar a week. She was delivered by an
African-American midwife. She taught my family to respect everyone, no
matter where they came from, because we were no better than anyone. Were
she and my black friends using this name to ridicule me or insult me. I
hate to find out that this is the case after 36 years.
Russell Betts <rbe...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote in article
<rbetts-ya0230800...@news.doit.wisc.edu>...
Russell Betts
I Would first like to thank everyone for your responses. I do not know if
I should feel special or a little put off by some of the tones and the
implications that I lack knowledge on the subject. I do want to thank
those of you who did take time to understand where I was coming from and
took an educated approach the subject when responding.
In my posting, I was simply trying to address another point of view about
the origins of the term as ³I² know it and as it pertains to ³my²
experiences. If this term is a term of endearment in your family and
friends, then I am happy for you. In ³my² family and circle of friends the
term would never be used in any manner except when describing what a white
person was calling a black person and in English translations that would be
nigger.
It is hard to respond as I would like to, in one short posting, to
everyone¹s comments but I will try. Thanks to Brian Comeaux, I have some
factual material to refer to before I fly of the handle trying to make this
another racial issue.
nègre, négresse-n. (du latin "niger" noir) 1. Personne de race noir
(L'utilisation fréquente de ce mot dans ces contextes racistes lui fait
généralement préférer aujourd'hui le terme neutre de "noir".) 2. anc.-
Esclave noir, "Les nègres d'une plantation." 3. "Travailler comme un
nègre", travailler très dur, sans relâche.
translation--
nègre, négress-noun (from latin, "niger" black) 1, a person of the black
race (The frequent utilization of this word in its racist context makes
it generally preferable today to use the neutral term, "black". 2.
ancient-Black Slave, as in "the "nègres" of a plantation."3. "Work like a
"negre"--to work very hard without rest.
I think it was very short sided of those of you who essentially tried to
deny me of my experiences with the use of this term. Just because you say
that ³it is a term of endearment and historically was never used racially²
means that¹s how it was and is how it continues to be today. I pose this
to you, in order to set me straight, please pass on to me the French term
Cajuns used to call black people niggers. I will in turn pass this
information on to my family to get their feelings on the word.
This is getting way too long and I could probably go on forever on this so
I would like to say in conclusion, I never meant to offend anyone with my
post as most of you have me. I thought this group was here to share
different experiences and different point of views. I bring a point of
view which is quite different from most of you, all I ask is that you
respect that, as I do yours.
In article <330E63...@mail.interconnect.net>, Bob McBride
<r...@mail.interconnect.net> wrote:
How can you assure me that it is a term of endearment if you do not know
the orgins? How do you know it is not taken any other way? Haven't I
taken it another way? Are you omniscient when it comes to others and their
thoughts and feelings? A little sensetive are you Bob!
Nate Goldshlag
>Could there be Cryptic Jews among the Cajuns?
As a Jew from around NYC, I have always wondered about the town of Kaplan
LA. Was there a wandering Jew Marty Kaplan from Brooklyn who somehow got
hooked up with the Cajuns and got a town named after him?? :-)
Nate
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nate Goldshlag "People ask me why I don't get fat
na...@reflection.com it's cause I like to dance like that.
http://www.ziplink.net/~nateg I eat as much as I can hold
Cambridge, MA and go out and do the zydeco."
-- Marcia Ball
Shane K. Bernard
na...@reflection.com (Nate Goldshlag) wrote:
>As a Jew from around NYC, I have always wondered about the town of Kaplan
>LA. Was there a wandering Jew Marty Kaplan from Brooklyn who somehow got
>hooked up with the Cajuns and got a town named after him??
Nate,
There was a small Jewish population in the small-towns of Acadiana
going back to the 19th century. Folklorist Barry Jean Ancelet writes
in "Cajun Country" (Univ. Press of Miss., 1991) that "The violin . . .
continued to dominate the [Cajun] instrumental tradition until
Jewish-German merchants in the area began importing diatonic
accordions shortly after they were invented in Austria early in the
nineteenth century."
rj...@gnofn.org
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Nate Goldshlag wrote:
> As a Jew from around NYC, I have always wondered about the town of Kaplan
> LA. Was there a wandering Jew Marty Kaplan from Brooklyn who somehow got
> hooked up with the Cajuns and got a town named after him?? :-)
I can't answer that, but Jews played a big part in New Orleans.
Ironically, the "Code Noir" promulgated by Bienville in the early 1700's
established Catholicism as the "only religion" and strictly forbade "by
name" Jews being allowed in the city.
I don't know if it was ever enforced (referring to Jews being allowed in
the city) but certainly it seems to have been overlooked especially after
the Americans took over in 1803. Some of the city's largest benefactors
and most respected businessmen have been Jews.
--
Regards,
Ray Jones
****************************************************************
Cellular Phone 504-884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032
ray....@mail.sstar.com http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html
Mark Boudoin
kjn...@cris.com wrote:
>
> na...@reflection.com (Nate Goldshlag) wrote:
>
> >In article <3310B8...@flash.net>, aki...@flash.net wrote:
>
> >>Could there be Cryptic Jews among the Cajuns?
>
> >LA. Was there a wandering Jew Marty Kaplan from Brooklyn who somehow got
> >hooked up with the Cajuns and got a town named after him?? :-)
>
>
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Nate Goldshlag "People ask me why I don't get fat
> >na...@reflection.com it's cause I like to dance like that.
> >http://www.ziplink.net/~nateg I eat as much as I can hold
> >Cambridge, MA and go out and do the zydeco."
> > -- Marcia Ball
>
> Kaplan , La. is named after Abrom Kaplan. ( The local hospital
> is named Abrom Memorial...I was born there in 1958.)
> Abrom Kaplan was a Russian Jewish immigrant living in Crowley,
> LA. in 1901 when the old Todd Plantation ( located on the land that
> eventually became Kaplan...) came up for sale. It was owned by Jim
> Todd , who lived in Shreveport at the time..
> Anyway, Mr. Kaplan and a Mr. Lichenstein ( sorry...no first name
> available..) bought the land and started the Irving Irrigation
> Company..the goal was to transport rice and rice equipment by water in
> the canals they buiilt.
> Mr. Kaplan was able to influence the Southern Pacific railroad
> to provide service to the area. In gratitude, the local populace named
> the community after him...
> An aside... Morgan City, La. , at the turn of the century , had
> one of the largest Jewish populations in the South. At the time, it
> was larger than the Jewish community in New Orleans. The closest in
> population size ( Jewish...that is...) was Memphis, Tn. I had read
> this years ago at LSU while doing research for a paper, and was
> surprised to hear a piece on this on NPR's All things Considered about
> a year ago.
> Tony Simon
That is about right even though I do not remember the details. Tell me
are you related to the Simon's in Kaplan? Specifically David Simon. I
really am quite suprised someone here knows about Kaplan. Hell that
place is so small there are only three lights in town.
--
Mark Boudoin
Email: mbou...@bigfoot.com
WWW: http://home1.gte.net/mboudoin
Home of the Cajun Exile Page!!
To see if I am online go to http://home1.gte.net/mboudoin/online.html
ki...@bellsouth.net
Shane K. Bernard wrote:
> There was a small Jewish population in the small-towns of Acadiana
> going back to the 19th century. Folklorist Barry Jean Ancelet writes
> in "Cajun Country" (Univ. Press of Miss., 1991) that "The violin . . .
I am not surprised anymore to see the family name of Rubin among blacks
from the Lafayette area.
kjn...@cris.com
Brian Comeaux
>>There was a small Jewish population in the small-towns of Acadiana
>going back to the 19th century. Folklorist Barry Jean Ancelet writes
>in "Cajun Country" (Univ. Press of Miss., 1991) that "The violin . . .
>Jewish-German merchants in the area began importing diatonic
>accordions shortly after they were invented in Austria early in the
>nineteenth century."
>SKB
>Cajun in Exile
Either the Baton Rouge Advocate or the Lafayette Advertiser (I read both
everyday and confuse articles over time) attributed Tay-Sachs in south
Louisiana to the descendants of Spanish settlers in Louisiana.
Apparently, a group of (is it Shepardic) jews in Spain had been forced to
convert to the Catholic Church during the inquisition, and it is their
descendants who brought the Tay-Sachs gene to Louisiana during the
spanish period.
BGC
There is a muscular disease that is found only among the descendants of
de la Tour, the original governor of Acadie. It is nasty stuff and those
who suffer from it usually die before adolescence. You can track the
Acadian diaspora to some extent through this illness since there are
children around the world who have it. (it is nonetheless extremely rare-
-I believe there are less than 20 children presently living with it, but
they are scattered from Australia to Canada.)
Nate Goldshlag
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.97022...@sparkie.gnofn.org>,
<rj...@gnofn.org> wrote:
> I can't answer that, but Jews played a big part in New Orleans.
The Touro Synagogue in New Orleans is one of the oldest synagogues in the
country.
Darren Comeaux
In article <rbetts-ya0230800...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
rbe...@facstaff.wisc.edu says...
> I think it was very short sided of those of you who essentially tried to
> deny me of my experiences with the use of this term. Just because you say
> means thatąs how it was and is how it continues to be today. I pose this
> to you, in order to set me straight, please pass on to me the French term
> Cajuns used to call black people niggers. I will in turn pass this
> information on to my family to get their feelings on the word.
In my experience it was a tonal inflection that made the
difference between a friendly reference to a racial slur. My point is
that my grandfather casually would refer to me as "Cha tsete neg" (tsete
as a pronounciation of petite). "Cha" would indicate the phrase was
positive. However when one assumed a strong tone with stress on the "N"
such as like an interrogative then it became a slur.
Personally I have no reservations to this word. There was plenty
of other words for blacks. In my opinion the french didn't have such a
negative opinion of blacks but they were definately seperatists.
