What`s with an X? --(Boudreau(x), Comeau(x))
BRIAN COMEAUX
Myths of Cajuns follow to this day-
by Chris SEGURA, Opelousas DAILY WORLD
X marks a good spot to start a discussion about the internalization of a
mistaken feeling of inferiority in the Cajun mentality.
The conventional wisdom heard practically everywhere and from people of
all ethnic groups in south Louisiana is that the `X` was added to the
eau-ending surnames of Acadians by refugees `making their mark` beside
names because they could not read or write.
`And the conventional wisdom is wrong,` says historian Dr. Carl
Brasseaux of the Center for Louisiana Studies at the University of
Southwestern Louisiana.
Brasseaux recognizes there was a high rate of illiteracy among the
refugees but no higher than among any other frontier socieity in the
18th century. One doesn`t find an X at the end of (Daniel) Boone, for
instance.
It all started with another French refugee, this one fleeing the
revolution in St-Domingue, now Haiti, Brasseaux said.
`There was no attempt to standardize the spelling (of French surnames
in what is now called Acadiana) until the 19th century,` Brasseaux
said.
Judge Paul Briant, the Antilles exile, took responsibility for the 1820
census in Louisiana.
`He is most responsible for the standard `eaux``, Brasseaux said.
Adding the X was arbitrary.
But the assumption of ingnorance and the `internalization of negative
stereotypes` projected to the rest of the world has far-reaching and
tragic results, ` he said.
`We have to be two times better to be considered only half as good` he
said.
David CHERAMIE, Director of the Conseil pour le dévellopement du
français en Louisiane, notes that when an X was placed to acknowledge a
signature in the period of Acadian migration to Louisiana, it was not
signed at the end of the name.
`It was signed below the name or in the middle'`` he said.
Shane BERNARD, of New Iberia, whose doctoral dissertation on the
oppression of Cajun culture will be published in book form, notes that
of the dozen or so possible spellings of the phonetic O sound in France,
the X form is quite common.
In addition to his dissertation, he keeps some unique records to fight
off the Cajun stereotype.
`I collect ethnic slurs against Cajuns,` he said, adding that the
culture-bashing has to do with the strong feelings of `Anglo-Saxonism`
that was present in Louisiana even before the Acadians were expelled
from their Canadian home.
`Basically what you have are people of Anglo-Saxon heritage looking at
Cajuns who have an entirely different outlook on life.`
They were criticized for `not seeking to acquire luxury items` and for
not striving to accumulate `anything over and above what you need`, he
said.
`Acadians never got into that.`
Cajuns early on were criticized for `working only as hard as they needed
to` so they were called `backward, ignorant and lazy` even though those
same critics often noted that `they were very industrious when they were
working.`
He says that it is significant that the original settlers of Acadia in
what is now New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island were
products of `late feudal France`, which was a `pre-capitalist era`.
One observer said that the Cajuns were `dumber than a dead alligator`,
he said.
FrancoFête `99 Administrator, Curtis Joubert, hopes that all the
attention to the Cajun culture fostered by the huge tourist celebration
and the Congrès mondial acadien-Louisiane 1999 http://www.cma-la99.com
will go a long way to dispelling the negative attitudes.
BGC
http://www.cma-la99.com
site officiel du Congrès mondial acadien-Louisiane 1999
Darrel Toepfer
Read it in The Advocate too... Don't read any those groups you crossposted
it to though...
--
Darrel Toepfer
Administrator
web - http://www.whodat.net
Excalibur Telnet @bbs.whodat.net
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Q. Which is the greater problem in the world today, ignorance or apathy?
A. I don't know and I couldn't care less.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Legal Warning: Anyone sending me unsolicited/commercial/junk/spam e-mail
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is greater, for each violation."
BRIAN COMEAUX <iam/000...@iamerica.net> wrote in article
<356B6E...@iamerica.net>...
Neil
>Myths of Cajuns follow to this day-
>by Chris SEGURA, Opelousas DAILY WORLD
>But the assumption of ingnorance and the `internalization of negative
>stereotypes` projected to the rest of the world has far-reaching and
>tragic results, ` he said.
>
>`We have to be two times better to be considered only half as good` he
>said.
Oh boo hoo. I'm sure Cajuns face much more discrimination than women
or Southern blacks do (particularly in Louisiana, which is among the
most racist states in the country).
-N
Ferris
To make a French word , like Brasseau, plural, one adds "x" ........
For example "one Quebecois" Many Quebecoix"....."un bateau" [one boat]
"beaucoup des bateaux" [many boats] I'm sure even Cajuns read French.
Ferris
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
BRIAN COMEAUX wrote in message <356B6E...@iamerica.net>...
>Myths of Cajuns follow to this day-
>
>by Chris SEGURA, Opelousas DAILY WORLD
BRIAN COMEAUX
Ferris wrote:
>
> To make a French word , like Brasseau, plural, one adds "x" ........
>
> For example "one Quebecois" Many Quebecoix"....."un bateau" [one boat]
> "beaucoup des bateaux" [many boats] I'm sure even Cajuns read French.
>
> Ferris
This is a less common but nonetheless occassionally used reason for why
Louisiana Acadian names often carry an X at the end. It is wrong.
The names of people ARE NEVER PLURALIZED in the French language by
adding X OR S OR ANYTHING ELSE! Only the article referring to the name
changes. Thus le Comeau (singular) is les Comeau (plural). Le Boudreau
(singular) becomes les Boudreau. Le Smith becomes les Smith.
Some of the other nouns in the language that end in eau become plural by
adding x, but NEVER the names of people.
This pluralization baloney has historically been the second most used
misconception to explain why Louisiana Acadians have the X on their
names.
BGC
http://www.cma-la99.com
site officiel du Congrès mondial acadien-Louisiane 1999
Shane K. Bernard
Darrel Toepfer wrote:
> > Shane BERNARD, of New Iberia, whose doctoral dissertation on the
> > oppression of Cajun culture. . . .
Despite what the article says, my dissertation is not "on the oppression of
Cajun culture," but on general Cajun history from 1941 to the present.
There are, however, several passages on the punishment of Cajun children for
speaking French at school, and the long-term effects of this practice on Cajun
culture (for example, the decline of the Cajun French dialect).
But this is only a small part of the work.
SKB
New Iberia
--
Please reply to: bern...@bellsouth.net
Visit the "Encyclopedia of Cajun Culture":
http://www.cajunculture.com
or the "Swamp Pop Music Pages":
http://acs.tamu.edu/~skb8721/swamppop.htm
"Lāche pas la patate"
Jacques Louvel
En réponse à BRIAN COMEAUX <iam/000...@iamerica.net>
[message du Wed, 27 May 1998 08:04:36 -0500
Ok Brian, you're right, but only if we refer to today's set
of pronounciation and grammar rules. I'm not sure that the
same strict rules applied one or two centuries ago,
especially when considering "monsieur tout-le-monde". I bet
that if you ask to french speaking people wether or not they
would pluralize their name when several relatives are
involved, a rather large proportion would answer yes.
Another point worth considering is the fact that X could
be heard SS.
Jacques Louvel
message original:
>The names of people ARE NEVER PLURALIZED in the French language by
>adding X OR S OR ANYTHING ELSE! Only the article referring to the name
>changes. Thus le Comeau (singular) is les Comeau (plural). Le Boudreau
>(singular) becomes les Boudreau. Le Smith becomes les Smith.
"... c'est que cela ne pouvait être dit ni plus tôt ni plus tard."
Jacques le fataliste (Louvel) jacques...@wanadoo.fr
De Repentigny Yves
Ferris (ms...@samnet.net) wrote:
:
: For example "one Quebecois" Many Quebecoix"....."un bateau" [one boat]
Argh. The plural form of Quebecois is simply Quebecois.
--
Yves de Repentigny
"And your bird can sing!" -John Lennon
cwa (Choupique)
not recognizing it's presence , then there is no reason for change.
cwa (Choupique)
Brian ,very much appreciate your response , and was unaware of the conflict between natins relative to sharing based on whatever differences (so it sounds) ,My post in no way was to imply , that Congress Mondial held the position of racial attitudes ,the individual i referenced in the previous post is in no way affiliated with Congres Mondial acadien-Louisiane , he is just an aquaintance of this area with much social & business influence ....i do not feel , and i truly believe that this is not the way of Congrès mondial acadien-Louisiane 1999, for if i did the site would not be linked anywhere within my writings or posts ....i am concerned as to local influence not to have participation of First Nations involved , and i feel a strong voice relative to this topic may raise some intrest with any concerned peoples .I would like to express my apologies if anyone reading the above post gets the notion that Congrès
mondial acadien-Louisiane 1999 may hold even an inkling of such negative attitudes mentioned ....thank you for your understandingChoupique
Darrel Toepfer
99.9% of the posts in this NG are in TEXT format and not HTML, please
return to your previous method of posting out of consideration to others.
The reasoning is, if you look below, there are no quotes marking who typed
what. Hence it all appears to be of my creation. (crossposted NG's have
been deleted from this response) TIA
--
Darrel Toepfer
Administrator
web - http://www.whodat.net
Excalibur Telnet @bbs.whodat.net
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Q. Which is the greater problem in the world today, ignorance or apathy?
A. I don't know and I couldn't care less.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Legal Warning: Anyone sending me unsolicited/commercial/junk/spam e-mail
WILL be charged a US$500 proof-reading fee. Do NOT send unsolicited
advertisements and do NOT add my e-mail address to your list(s):
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets
the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is
unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By
Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever
is greater, for each violation."
cwa (Choupique) <c...@eatel.net> wrote in article
<356c5...@news.eatel.net>...
----------
Ferris
I was never implying that it was meant to indicate plurality. The "X" may be
a simple addition to distinguish one branch from another! In my lineage
there are BOURDEAU and BOURDEAUX....non of these are Acadian OR Cajun.
Merely, I was suggesting that this "X" has no malicious
connotation!!!!!!!!!!!!! If someone can PROVE [with real sources] the
opposite........please do so.
>Prior to the mid-19th century, there was little or no standardization of
>Acadian names. The various Acadian censuses listed my family name as
>COMEAU, COMMAUX, COMO, COMMAU, etc. However, one thing I have never
>noticed in the various Acadian censuses from the 17th and 18th century,
>is the grammatical form that added an X to a family name for the purpose
>of changing it from singular to plural.
Ferris
I humbly ask your forgiveness. Do I get points for getting the boat one
correct?
De Repentigny Yves wrote in message ...
De Repentigny Yves
Ferris (ms...@samnet.net) wrote:
: I humbly ask your forgiveness. Do I get points for getting the boat one
: correct?
Nope, but you get free M&Ms.
BRIAN COMEAUX
Your statement is deeply appreciated. Please feel free to make any
suggestions you may have concerning our programming directly to me at
888-526-1999. You have my e-mail address right here. We can also be
reached at:
Acadiennement,
BGC
BRIAN COMEAUX
jro...@mail.intplsrv.net wrote:
>
> In article <356B6E...@iamerica.net>,
> iam/000...@iamerica.net wrote:
> >
> > Myths of Cajuns follow to this day-
> >
> > by Chris SEGURA, Opelousas DAILY WORLD
> >
> > mistaken feeling of inferiority in the Cajun mentality.
> >
> > all ethnic groups in south Louisiana is that the `X` was added to the
> > eau-ending surnames of Acadians by refugees `making their mark` beside
> > names because they could not read or write.
> >
> > Brasseaux of the Center for Louisiana Studies at the University of
> > Southwestern Louisiana.
> >
> > Brasseaux recognizes there was a high rate of illiteracy among the
> > refugees but no higher than among any other frontier socieity in the
> > 18th century. One doesn`t find an X at the end of (Daniel) Boone, for
> > instance.
> >
> > It all started with another French refugee, this one fleeing the
> > revolution in St-Domingue, now Haiti, Brasseaux said.
> >
> > `There was no attempt to standardize the spelling (of French surnames
> > in what is now called Acadiana) until the 19th century,` Brasseaux
> > said.
> >
> > Judge Paul Briant, the Antilles exile, took responsibility for the 1820
> > census in Louisiana.
> >
> > `He is most responsible for the standard `eaux``, Brasseaux said.
> >
> > Adding the X was arbitrary.
> >
> > stereotypes` projected to the rest of the world has far-reaching and
> > tragic results, ` he said.
> >
> > `We have to be two times better to be considered only half as good` he
> > said.
> >
> > français en Louisiane, notes that when an X was placed to acknowledge a
> > signature in the period of Acadian migration to Louisiana, it was not
> > signed at the end of the name.
> >
> > `It was signed below the name or in the middle'`` he said.
> >
> >
> > http://www.cma-la99.com
> > site officiel du Congrès mondial acadien-Louisiane 1999
> >
>
> they are somehow being discriminated against for any multitude of reasons?
>
> This Chris Segura writes an article and quotes three sources who evidently
> never bothered to look farther than their own back yards.
>
> If the adding of an "X" was the result of this single census taker in LA then
> why does the same phenomenon occur quite often in France itself, Quebec and
> amongst others of French ancestry?? It's obviously not an "Anglo-Saxon" vs
> Cajun issue since the same thing happens elsewhere including within strictly
> French communities. David Cheramime's concept that the "X' was used to denote
> a signature has some merit but it was certainly in use long before the period
> of Acadian migration to LA and was also apparently used elsewhere...
>
> In just one example: In my family the MARCOU line starts in France circa
> 1650. Somewhere around 1700 the name changes to MARCOUX where is is carried
> on throughout Quebec and finally around 1890 reverts back to MARCOU in the
> LaCrosse, Wisconsin area. Around 1910 one family member decides to drop the
> "u" and starts using MARCO. Cheramine's concept is the only one of the three
> that has any chance of holding up....
>
> The whole point is that this is not in anyway a "Cajun" phenomenon so the
> Cajun's have no real reason to feel that this has anything to do with them as
> an isolated ethnic group.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Royer
> jro...@mail.intplsrv.net
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
I think there is a misunderstanding of the article. The article points
out that the X was added to names in Louisiana by a FRENCHMAN, Judge
Paul Briant, a French refugee of the Haitian revolt; and that the adding
of the X was in accord with FRENCH phonetics. The error in thinking
that has developed in Louisiana, because nobody prior to DR. BRASSEAUX
had bothered to actually research why the X was added, was based upon
the following:
1. Acadians showed up in Louisiana as illiterates.
2. As a result, they signed official documents by placing an X at the
end of the their names, which were already written in by Spanish
officials.
3. That this practice of adding an X, resulted over time in the names
acquiring a standardized form that included the X.
This theory, accepted as true by very many people in Louisiana, whether
Cajun or not, emphasized a stereotype that was not true-namely that the
south Louisiana Acadian population was disproportiately illiterate.
In reality, Brasseaux proves that the adding of the X was in accord
with an accepted practice of the time.
A later post, which I responded to, intimated that the adding of the X
may have been a way to "Pluralize" the names. My response dealt with
the fact that in the French language, French names are not pluralized by
adding an X or an S.
cwa (Choupique)
jro...@mail.intplsrv.net wrote in message
<6kiftd$9js$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <356B6E...@iamerica.net>,
> iam/000...@iamerica.net wrote:
>>
>> `I collect ethnic slurs against Cajuns,` he said, adding that the
>> culture-bashing has to do with the strong feelings of `Anglo-Saxonism`
>> that was present in Louisiana even before the Acadians were expelled
>> from their Canadian home.
>>
>> `Basically what you have are people of Anglo-Saxon heritage looking at
>> Cajuns who have an entirely different outlook on life.`
>>
>> They were criticized for `not seeking to acquire luxury items` and for
>> not striving to accumulate `anything over and above what you need`, he
>> said.
>> `Acadians never got into that.`
which are reasons for such strong relations between the MicMaq an French,
as mentioned in Patrick Augestine's post relative to Exiled Kindered..
The Acadian Exile happened in troubled times, especially here in Mi'kmaki.
There were constant struggles over Land in Mi'kmaki, Acadia, Nova Scotia, or
what ever you want to call it. It is still Mi'kmaki. Some reasons the
Mi'kmaq were so allied to the Acadiens were they had similar approaches to
life. When the French arrived in this territory, they wished to share in the
resources and lived amongst the Mi'kmaq. They had no intentions of becoming
superior and amassing large land holders, and pushing out the indigenous
inhabitants.
>>
>> He says that it is significant that the original settlers of Acadia in
>> what is now New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island were
>> products of `late feudal France`, which was a `pre-capitalist era`.
>>
>> One observer said that the Cajuns were `dumber than a dead alligator`,
*laughing big time* , this one i haven't heard and find most amusing ,
(first class)
why should one become offensive if she/he knows there is no truth to it ....
will store it away in memory for future use on a local ..... and i dont find
it negative at all ,
.... for the simple reason i understand the individual which made the
initial comment is the ignorant one .... not us cajuns ....
she/he is unable to view from another persons perspective .... or accept
anothers point of view
Choupique
no e-mail spam ....
Alice Bradshaw
I wish y'all would make up my mind. Here I've already said my Daddy
made a mis-statement and now.......... its still up in the air. heehee
Chauvin doesn't end in an X. I'll see an X as a kiss and not worry
about it...let y'all argue the fine points of the whole works <GRIN>
jro...@mail.intplsrv.net
> culture-bashing has to do with the strong feelings of `Anglo-Saxonism`
> that was present in Louisiana even before the Acadians were expelled
> from their Canadian home.
>
> `Basically what you have are people of Anglo-Saxon heritage looking at
> Cajuns who have an entirely different outlook on life.`
>
> They were criticized for `not seeking to acquire luxury items` and for
> not striving to accumulate `anything over and above what you need`, he
> said.
>
> `Acadians never got into that.`
>
> to` so they were called `backward, ignorant and lazy` even though those
> same critics often noted that `they were very industrious when they were
> working.`
>
> what is now New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island were
> products of `late feudal France`, which was a `pre-capitalist era`.
>
> One observer said that the Cajuns were `dumber than a dead alligator`,
Patanîe
Le Wed, 27 May 1998 16:02:32 GMT, dere...@ERE.UMontreal.CA (De
Repentigny Yves) vous écrivîtes:
>Ferris (ms...@samnet.net) wrote:
Tiens De Repentigny le descendant indigne de son ancêtre est à nouveau
là?
Quelle chose formidable!!!
De Repentigny Yves
Patanîe (pat...@pasdepubhotmail.com) wrote:
:
: Tiens De Repentigny le descendant indigne de son ancêtre est à nouveau
: là?
:
: Quelle chose formidable!!!
:
:
Tssss. de Repentigny. Pas De Repentigny. Si vous connaissiez mon ancetre
autant que vous le dites (et si c'est le cas, saluez-le pour moi en
passant), vous le sauriez.
Pour en revenir a nos moutons, parait-il qu'en Nouvelle-France, les
recenseurs ajoutaient des e et des l a des noms tels que Gaudreault car
ils etaient payes a la lettre. Est-ce vrai?
Shane K. Bernard
I had trouble sending the below reply, and apologize in advance if it shows up more
than once on this newsgroup:
jro...@mail.intplsrv.net wrote:
> Why is it that groups of any type of ethnic identity have to feel as though
> they are somehow being discriminated against for any multitude of reasons?
>
> This Chris Segura writes an article and quotes three sources who evidently
> never bothered to look farther than their own back yards.
>
> If the adding of an "X" was the result of this single census taker in LA then
> why does the same phenomenon occur quite often in France itself, Quebec and
> amongst others of French ancestry??
I'm one of those three people Segura quoted, and I have to agree with Brian
that you misunderstood the article:
That someone placed the X at the end of some Cajun surnames is less important
than the general public assuming for decades (incorrectly) that the X only
denoted widespread illiteracy among Cajuns.
You observed that we interviewees didn't bother "to look farther than
their own back yards": but Segura does paraphrase me as saying "in France, the X .
.
. is quite common."
Also, in the original article, I stated, "there's a Meaux, France, just like the
town in Vermillion Parish [La.]" -- but this passage was omitted by accident when
copied to the newsgroup.
SKB
New Iberia LA
Alice Bradshaw
Is that final and how we are to see it.... It would be so nice to
know.....Alice
Albert Lalande
dere...@ERE.UMontreal.CA (De Repentigny Yves) ŽcrituresÊ:
Bonjour
Non. les recenseurs, comme les cures, ecrivaient le nom comme ils croyaient
l'entendre et comme ils croyaient, eux, qu'il devait etre ecrit. Le nom de
l'Žpouse de mon ancetre a t Žcrit: beaune, baune, beaulne, baulne, bone, bonne
et peut-etre d'autres facons dans des documents que je n'ai pas vus. Je pourrais
citer des centaines de cas comme celui-la.
Quant au X ou croix que faisait ceux qui ne savaient signer, le resultat final
se presentait ainsi
Pierre
X
Tremblay
le nom etant ajoute apres que le X soit trace
A. Lalande
Longueuil, Qc
cwa (Choupique)
Richard,
A_Bear standin up agin ?
Stand Strong ! , good to hear a strong voice .... thanks for the input ....
The Logical Song -by: SuperTramp-
now, watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, A liberal, oh
fanatical, criminal,
Oh, won't you sign up your name, We'd like to feel you're acceptable,
Respectable, oh presentable, a vegetable .....etc.
*grin* , you a radical ? , a fanatical , a criminal ?
no, think your speaking from the heart , an the hard part for others may be
that "they" get upset when your
voice makes them look within their own ....
some ppl say when a bear stands up to be cautious ....
Choupique
www.CajunWebAds.com
Richard Hébert wrote in message <01bd8bcb$c186c9a0$f89454c7@richard>...
>Ca va pas la tête!!!
>
>Is it ever possible to be so COLONIZED and have to justify its existence in
>North-America at every corner of life. Trying to explain the "X" at the end
>of a name…c'est de l'enculage de mouches.
>
>The first reason of the illiteracy factor of this oppressed people goes
>back to the wars of religions between the Catholics and the French
>Protestants called the Huguenots…this favored illiteracy among the
>Catholics…so they would not become Bible readers….and Protestants. ( It is
>quite amusing to an agnostic like me to observe that the "reading of the
>bible" is now a tool of ignorance and stupidity! )
>
>The French language and the ways of writing it, evolved true the years not
>only in Acadia Louisiana, Canada but also in France. If you take the family
>name of Arcenaux and start in the 17th century up to today you will find
>the following versions: Arsenot, Arsenau, Arseno, Arcenot, Arseneau,
>Arseneault.
>
>You can find the "X" as the mark of illiterate people in thousands of
>documents in Canada in the 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th century. Does this
>make us DUM ALLIGATORS in our part of the world. The Anglo-Saxon bastards
>used every tools to downgrade the peoples they brutally conquered and even
>succeeded in having it qualified of FAIR-PLAY!
>
>BE PROUD OF YOUR NAME….BE PROUD OF YOUR ROOTS!!
>
>Un CAYEN du Nord
>Richard Hebert
>Montreal
>
>
>
Richard Hébert
gww...@my-dejanews.com
In article <01bd8bcb$c186c9a0$f89454c7@richard>,
"Richard Hébert" <heb...@cam.org> wrote:
>
> The Anglo-Saxon bastards
> used every tools to downgrade the peoples they brutally conquered and even
> succeeded in having it qualified of FAIR-PLAY!
>
Ah, a voice of reason and reconciliation.
Richard Hébert
Monsieur or Madame Wood,
The assassins always demand reason and reconciliation after their
crimes...much too easy.
Back in Quebec and every where else in AMERICA...
YOU told us to SPEAK WHITE...
Au QUEBEC nous parlons toujours FRANCAIS !!!
The same bastards on 60 MINUTES(CBS) said we are terrorising our ENGLISH
speaking minority.....Can you beleive this!!!!!
Richard Hebert
Montreal
P.S. why don't you sign your prose Woody
gww...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<6kphpf$goj$1...@nnrp2.dejanews.com>...
gww...@my-dejanews.com
In article <01bd8c47$5da987c0$769454c7@richard>,
"Richard Hébert" <heb...@cam.org> wrote:
>
> Monsieur or Madame Wood,
>
> The assassins always demand reason and reconciliation after their
> crimes...much too easy.
> Back in Quebec and every where else in AMERICA...
> YOU told us to SPEAK WHITE...
I did not tell anyone to do anything. At least half of my ancestors were non-
English speakers when they came to America. I suspect they learned English
because the majority of their new neighbors spoke it. However, they could put
up signs in any language they chose. It is called freedom.
> Au QUEBEC nous parlons toujours FRANCAIS !!!
> The same bastards on 60 MINUTES(CBS) said we are terrorising our ENGLISH
> speaking minority.....Can you beleive this!!!!!
If we passed language laws in the USA like the ones in Quebec, they would
immediately be challenged in the courts and fail judicial review, probably
under the terms of the First and Sixth Amendments.
> Richard Hebert
> Montreal
> P.S. why don't you sign your prose Woody
>
Laziness. The newsreader I use does not have an automatic sig line, but I
sign this once just for you.
Gregory Wood
BRIAN COMEAUX
marvant duhon wrote:
>
> Mr. Hilbert has misrepresented and insulted a member of this
> newsgroup while trying to more generally spread both hatred, and, what is
> worse in nettiquette, off-topic posts. While such a one as he should most
> appropriately be ignored, in the past we have been spammed by his ilk too
> often. Let us briefly meditate on the relevance of Quebec's language laws
> and attitudes, which Mr. Hilbert has brought up, to Cajuns. Many US
> newsshows have covered Quebec's language laws, usually without editorial
> comment, because the matter itself is to us so strikingly abhorrent that
> none is needed. However this is from the Canadian News Broadcast Service,
> which I watch several hours of on satellite a week, and it is by no means
> atypical. A Jewish gravestone maker was served legal notice by the
> language police that the primary language on all stones had to be
> French and also that Hebrew letters (which are tall in ususal orthography)
> could not be taller than French letters, even if there were just one or
> two of them. This villainy had been objected to and had been affirmed by
> the authorities, including high provincial ones. Cajuns might also notice
> how those in power in Quebec have devoted themselves to attempting to
> irradicate the languages of Native Peoples; in fact the critical margin of
> defeat for Canada's attempt to give Quebec limited Sovereignty (the Meese
> Lake Accords) came from Native Peoples for this reason. There can be no
> question that the Cajun language, which Quebekkers have not infrequently
> insulted here, would also be subject to their language police. I believe
> that Cajun French, and language diversity in general, should be promoted.
> And that while all of good manners who are interested in matters Cajun are
> welcome here, others should go to an appropriate forum, say
> alt.bigotry.Quebekker.
> Marvant Duhon
I think your experience misses a certain amount of perspective. First,
a view of Radio-Canada, the french canadian news service, when viewed in
conjunction with the english service would give a more balanced view.
Second, there is a historical perspective missing. Namely, the
historically indeniable subtle and not so subtle oppression of French in
Québec and even more so in Canada but outside of Québec.
Third, the situation for anglophones in Québec is arguably better and
certainly no worse that the linguistic situation of francophones outside
of Québec. One example, the Canadian constitution guarantees the right
to an education in either of the official languages (english and french)
to children of parents who speak one or other of the languages, `where
their numbers warrant`. This has been the law for quite a few years,
and has been upheld by the Canadian supreme court. Despite this, in
Nova Scotia, the provincial government has only, in the last year or so,
begun to abide by the Constitution and provide all-French schools to
Acadian students.
Fourth, I am not here to support the more extreme of the Québec language
laws, but i think the language police thing is being blown out of
proportion for the simple reason that for the last five years every time
this story makes the press, be it on american or canadian media, the
exact same four or five experiences are recounted as evidence of the
oppressive language laws. Its always the Jewish cemetary, the kosher
food labels, the english speaking parrot, etc. There are always over
zealous Barney Fife types who can make a mockery of a law by enforcing
it with ridiculous zeal. I have been going to Montréal at least twice a
year for the last ten years. Believe me, you see english language signs
all over Montréal, to say nothing of Hebrew signs, chinese signs, etc.
It is pretty obvious that there is no omnipresent language police
running around day in and day out writing tickets. That is not to say
that this civil agency does not exist, it does. Just that the poor
anglos of Montréal are far from being an oppressed people.
Every Quebecer educated in English in that province is able to send his
child to an English language school. This seems to me to be a pretty
generous situation in a province where over 85% of the population is
French speaking.
BGC
nationalist acadien/acadian nationalist
marvant duhon
gww...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6kt182$m9$1...@catseye.bluemarble.net>,
mdu...@shooter.bluemarble.net (marvant duhon) wrote:
>
> I believe
> that Cajun French, and language diversity in general, should be promoted.
> And that while all of good manners who are interested in matters Cajun are
> welcome here, others should go to an appropriate forum, say
> alt.bigotry.Quebekker.
>
A true voice of reason. I absolutely regret the loss of French in Louisiana,
both in New Orleans and in Acadiana. I also suspect that Spanish will
diminish in America, even with continued immigration, as a result of
assimilation and economic necessity.
But for the most part, this has been the result of cultural processes unforced
and uncontrolled by government, and there is no way of turning back the clock.
gww...@my-dejanews.com
In article <35721A...@iamerica.net>,
iam/000...@iamerica.net wrote:
>
>
> Every Quebecer educated in English in that province is able to send his
> child to an English language school. This seems to me to be a pretty
> generous situation in a province where over 85% of the population is
> French speaking.
>
The freedom to choose how to educate your child is a "generous" situation
granted by a benevolent majority population, but only, I assume, if one was
educated in English.
I take it this mean that a Persian immigrant educated in Farsi must send his
child to a French school?
You and your friends could start a private school right now with all
instruction in French if you chose to do so. Would you like not having that
right?
BRIAN COMEAUX
gww...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <35721A...@iamerica.net>,
> iam/000...@iamerica.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > Every Quebecer educated in English in that province is able to send his
> > child to an English language school. This seems to me to be a pretty
> > generous situation in a province where over 85% of the population is
> > French speaking.
> >
>
> The freedom to choose how to educate your child is a "generous" situation
> granted by a benevolent majority population, but only, I assume, if one was
> educated in English.
> I take it this mean that a Persian immigrant educated in Farsi must send his
> child to a French school?
>
The situation i referred to is for public schools. Private schools can
teach in whatever language they choose, and there are private english
language schools for students who do not meet the qualification for
attendance in the english language public schools.
Immigrants to Québec, if they intend to attend public schools, must
enroll in French language schools. Québec also provides fairly
intensive french language classes for adult immigrants. There are no
farsi private schools that I know of. (There are quite a few private
Hebrew schools, however.)
Access to French schools in Canada, but outside of Québec, is regulated
in much the same manner.
BGC
nationalist acadien/acadian nationalist
http://www.cma-la99.com
site officiel du Congrès mondial acadien-Louisiane 1999
gww...@my-dejanews.com
In article <3572AE...@iamerica.net>,
iam/000...@iamerica.net wrote:
>
> Immigrants to Québec, if they intend to attend public schools, must
> enroll in French language schools. Québec also provides fairly
> intensive french language classes for adult immigrants. There are no
> farsi private schools that I know of. (There are quite a few private
> Hebrew schools, however.)
>
> Access to French schools in Canada, but outside of Québec, is regulated
> in much the same manner.
>
And the question then is why should this be if the English public schools are
available?
Are you saying that outside of Quebec, if a French public school is available,
an immigrant does not have the choice of sending his child there? If this is
so it is just as offensive as the Quebec situation.
BRIAN COMEAUX
gww...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <3572AE...@iamerica.net>,
> iam/000...@iamerica.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Immigrants to Québec, if they intend to attend public schools, must
> > enroll in French language schools. Québec also provides fairly
> > intensive french language classes for adult immigrants. There are no
> > farsi private schools that I know of. (There are quite a few private
> > Hebrew schools, however.)
> >
> > Access to French schools in Canada, but outside of Québec, is regulated
> > in much the same manner.
> >
>
> And the question then is why should this be if the English public schools are
> available?
>
> Are you saying that outside of Quebec, if a French public school is available,
> an immigrant does not have the choice of sending his child there? If this is
> so it is just as offensive as the Quebec situation.
>
In theory no, they are not eligible, however I do believe in most cases
the French schools would accept an immigrant student from a
French-speaking country.
Also, certain categories of temporary workers in Québec can send their
children to English schools there.
BGC