BATTERY HEATERS...WHY???
Alexander
I would like to know if anybody has ever tried eliminating any and all
of their battery heaters and instead permanently hard wired in a high
output battery charger/booster. I would think this would be a far
superior way to insure there was adequate power to get your car going in
the coldest conditions. I realize of course this would be substantially
more expensive and require a little work, but aside from this is there a
down side I am not aware of. It would seem to me it would be the way to
go, along with a block heater of course.
Thanks,
David
E-mail qaz...@erols.com
Ed Gauss
In Fairbanks there was always a winter week where the high was -40 and
sometimes a few days at -50F. My car sat outside most of the twenty
some odd years I lived there. While keeping a car going at those
temperatures is a cause of endless debate here are my opinions on
the matter.
The driver antifreeze theory: In this, when your car does not start
you go back inside, drink coffee with brandy and call in sick.
Engine preheaters: The best are the circulating heaters, and they
work the fastest. Next is the frost plug heater. Oil pan heaters
really are dissappointing.
Knowing it works: Get a "cube tap", one of those little plugs that
gives three plug in places when plugged in. Plug your heater into one
of the slots, and a little neon bulb night light into another. Then
wrap the whole thing up with electricians tape. You want to be able to
look out the window and see that nice orange glow whenever you expect
that your heater is on. Stray dogs, a passing moose, and the neighbor
boy, are known to trip over your wiring and accidently disconnect the
wires.
Extension cords: They have to be designed for the cold. S or SJ
rated rubber or any of the fancy blue cords specifically designed for
the cold are good. SJV or any vinyl insulation cord will shatter and
short out when you need them the worst.
Battery heaters: I never messed with them. While they may get
a little more life out of a weak battery, I bought the biggest battery
that would fit, and replaced it as soon as the guarentee ran out. A
trickle charger (1 or 3 amps) is said to work as well as a battery heater.
I used a trickle charger occasionally and they are nice to have about.
People heaters: If they let you do it, get a small space heater
and put it inside the car. Sitting on a seat that is at -40 can make
you frosted.
Herman Nelsons: I still have mine and occasionally use it in winter
when it threatens -20F. I guess Herman Nelson once made them but mine
is made by Master: These are big kerosene burning space heaters. Mine
is rated at 50,000 BTU. Get a length of 6 inch stove pipe so you can
duct the hot air under your bumper directly on the oil pan. If you have
covered the hood with a big canvas tarp, you can get your car started
in about half an hour even under the coldest temperatures. These things
also work great for airplane engine starting. The Herman Nelson can also
save your house's plumbing when your furnace goes out at 2am.
Airplanes: Oversize batteries weigh too much, so I took mine indoors
and kept it warm. The Herman Nelson was the best way to preheat the
engine. I had a little Herman Nelson that I could run off of my car
battery for my airplane was parked too far from electric power. When I
would stay overnight in the bush, I would put a 3,000 BTU propane catalytic
heater inside the engine compartment and run it over night. Unfortunately
the fumes from leaded aviation gasoline will eventually poison the catalyst
even if it is not in use. So you should not leave the heater at the airport
when it is not in use. I learned this the hard way loosing a couple just
sitting in the back of the plane for a week or so, before I identified the
problem.
Vacation in Hawaii: This is the best solution of all. :)
--Ed (U/Alaska, retired)
RobertBolton
As I recall, a car battery looses 60% of its capacity at +10 F. It may
be fully charged, but it acts as if it's physically 40% of its actual
size. The electrolyte will have the specific gravity of a fully charged
battery (I think), but the chemical reaction just doesn't work as it
does at 80 degrees. In other words, you don't have the same amount of
cranking time available at -60. A trickle charger will warm the battery
a slight bit (.5Ax12V=6 watts), but I think the real value of a battery
charger comes into play when your car won't start. After you crank your
battery dead, the charger will work to recharge it. The only problem
with a built-in charger is that it takes a long tome to charge the
battery back up. People do use them tho, or used to. They would be
small 2 amp charger types, due to physical size.
For a person with limited money to spend, I'd say invest in as much
engine heat as possible. This thins the oil and lowers friction (most
important), helps to insure the fuel vaporizes, and the heat radiating
off of the engine will warm the battery a slight bit.
Speaking of fuel vaporization, I tried to start a truck that had some
special oil in it once after it had sat outside overnight at -35 without
having any heat at all. It cranked for a long time, no problem with
battery capacity, but the fuel wouldn't vaporize (pre-fuel injection
days). Using starter fluid, I could get it to spit a little, tho, so we
kept trying. The engine backfired just right and spit a bunch of
burning fuel on my arm, and on the truck a little. The owner turned and
ran, and then stopped about 30ft away. I patted the fire out, and then
he came back and asked if I was allright. It was pretty funny to see
someone panic like that, as that is everyday stuff for people who mess
with cars in the winter. I still smile when I think about it.
Robert (Who's lived in Anchorage so long, and now has a garage, and
doesn't deal with frozen cars anymore, that he doesn't know cold weather
techniques anymore)
Art Greenwalt
> I would like to know if anybody has ever tried eliminating any and all
> of their battery heaters and instead permanently hard wired in a high
> output battery charger/booster. I would think this would be a far
> superior way to insure there was adequate power to get your car going in
> the coldest conditions. I realize of course this would be substantially
> more expensive and require a little work, but aside from this is there a
> down side I am not aware of. It would seem to me it would be the way to
> go, along with a block heater of course.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> E-mail qaz...@erols.com
The closest I have ever gotten to that sort of rig is a trickle-charger
I installed inside the engine well on a couple of my cars. But that isn't
quite the high-output device I think you are considering so this is only a
partial answer to your question.
As a rough guide, with a frost plug and a battery plate in I figure when
I plug in overnight (and I do at -15 or colder since the car is putting on
years almost as fast as me..*grin*) it costs me about $4/week or so in
electricity. If I were to add a high-output charger it sounds like it
would double that cost, perhaps?
Of course...at $8/wk if I knew my car would start easily, it would be
worth it.
...Art, in Alaska
--
Alaska without wolves is just another state
Floyd Davidson
In article <3325A8...@erols.com>, Alexander <qaz...@erols.com> wrote:
>I would like to know if anybody has ever tried eliminating any and all
>of their battery heaters and instead permanently hard wired in a high
>output battery charger/booster. I would think this would be a far
>superior way to insure there was adequate power to get your car going in
>the coldest conditions. I realize of course this would be substantially
>more expensive and require a little work, but aside from this is there a
>down side I am not aware of. It would seem to me it would be the way to
>go, along with a block heater of course.
The only downside is that you do not want to use a "high output"
charger! It won't do any more than a 1 amp trickle charger, and
could do some harm. If the charger can't regulate down to a
very low rate and constantly overcharges the battery it will
seriously reduce the life of the battery. A 1 or 2 amp trickle
charger however, is perfect and can't harm the battery at all.
The 10-20 watts of power that it feeds into the battery produces
two things, one is an always fully charged battery, and the
other is a warm enough fully charged battery. That is probably
more actual heat where it counts than you can get from wrapping
a 50 watt heater blanket around a battery.
I've used trickle chargers instead of battery blankets for about
15 years now, and have installed them in my own cars, my kids cars,
a friend's cars, etc. etc. And while that normally might sound
like an ample bit of experience, the real significance of it is
that I live in one of the coldest areas around Fairbanks... out
in Salcha, right down on the banks of the Tanana River where if
it is going to get cold, it gets colder here. 'nuff said?
Floyd
--
Floyd L. Davidson Salcha, Alaska fl...@tanana.polarnet.com
Alexander
Thanks for the advice on the trickle charger, however I don't think I
made myself clear as to the way I planned to use the battery
charger/booster. My idea would be to NOT run it all the time as a
charger, which as you correctly point out would be very harmful to the
battery. But rather I would not worry about heating or charging the
battery at all and when it was time to start the engine I would then
turn on the charger/booster in its BOOST mode which would put out over
100amps at more then 12volts, and immediately crank the engine till it
started. The power needed to start would be coming from the booster and
not the battery and therefore it would not be necessary to worry about
the temperature or condition of charge on the battery. The battery
should however not be removed because it still performs the important
task of absorbing the extra current produced by the booster and if it
was removed there would be a very real possibility of blowing everything
electrical in the vehicle, as the extra current looks for a place to
go.
So what do you think????
David, qaz...@erols.com
viking
Floyd Davidson wrote:
>
<snip>
The down side of this is that putting a high amperage charge on a
battery is dangerous. They can explode. Although it doesn't happen
very often, I have seen three in my life time. The byproduct of a
charging battery is Hydrogen. If there is a flaw or small short in a
battery, which happens with time, and it is hit by a heavy charge, it
creates heat. You have an ignition source and it explodes, spraying
acid and battery parts over a substantial area. This is one of the
risks of jumping somebody with a low or dead battery.
viking
JV
I live in North Pole and drive an '83 Jeep and a Dodge Raider and haven't
used a battery blanket or pad in 3 years and they both start fine. I just
make sure the block heaters are working. They are kept out in the cold.
Floyd Davidson <fl...@polarnet.com> wrote in article
<3c7cd$152a24.376@PolarNet>...
Floyd L. Davidson
In article <33283B...@erols.com>, Alexander <qaz...@erols.com> wrote:
>Floyd Davidson wrote:
>> In article <3325A8...@erols.com>, Alexander <qaz...@erols.com> wrote:
>> >I would like to know if anybody has ever tried eliminating any and all
>> >of their battery heaters and instead permanently hard wired in a high
>> >output battery charger/booster. I would think this would be a far
>> The only downside is that you do not want to use a "high output"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The first line was the most important, and maybe should have been
offset from the rest of the discussion to give it more effect.
>> charger! It won't do any more than a 1 amp trickle charger, and
>> could do some harm. If the charger can't regulate down to a
> Thanks for the advice on the trickle charger, however I don't think I
>made myself clear as to the way I planned to use the battery
>charger/booster. My idea would be to NOT run it all the time as a
Do give a trickle charger some thought, but forget the boost charger.
A typical car battery today cannot tolerate an excessive number
of boost charge applications. In some cases just one time is
excessive, and at best the system you are thinking of will
destroy the battery in a relatively short time compared to the
life of the same battery if it is never given a boost charge.
The trickle charger on the other hand will actually extend the
life of the battery and it accomplishes everything you are
expecting to gain from the boost charger (reliable starting when
the car has been plugged in). It is also a lot cheaper to install.
Floyd
--
Floyd L. Davidson fl...@polarnet.com
Salcha, Alaska or: fl...@tanana.polarnet.com
dr. digger
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
>Alexander wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the advice on the trickle charger, however I don't think I
>>made myself clear as to the way I planned to use the battery
>>charger/booster. My idea would be to NOT run it all the time as a
>
>
>Do give a trickle charger some thought, but forget the boost charger.
>
>A typical car battery today cannot tolerate an excessive number
>of boost charge applications. In some cases just one time is
>excessive, and at best the system you are thinking of will
>destroy the battery in a relatively short time compared to the
>life of the same battery if it is never given a boost charge.
>
>The trickle charger on the other hand will actually extend the
>life of the battery and it accomplishes everything you are
>expecting to gain from the boost charger (reliable starting when
>the car has been plugged in). It is also a lot cheaper to install.
Another reason to skip the boost charger is that there is a
possibility of damaging the electronics in the car, when the
ignition switch is on.
A battery charger does not put out a constant dc voltage,
but rather, a full-wave-rectified sinusoidal voltage. It
does the most charging when the output voltage is at its
peak. The open-circuit charger output will have a ripple
with peaks up to around 20 or 24v. In a low-current
charger, when connected, the peak current will all flow
through the battery, thus smoothing out the voltage. If you
are using a high-current charger, however, even with the
charger connected to the battery there will still be
considerable ripple. If you turn on the ignition, this
ripple (and switching spikes, etc) will appear at the power
supply terminals of all your electric equipment. This is
not good, especially for electronic components. Digital
dashboards are particularly susceptible to this kind of
damage. (Running the car with the battery disconnected is
even worse.)
Floyd is right. Battery Bob, of Alaska Battery Co., has
recommended using a trickle charger, and that you should
never use a battery heater above -20ºF and even then only if
you have to. Batteries last longer when they are kept cold,
and 0 to -20º is better than +60º although the cold cranking
current is reduced. This is actually one of the few
blessings of cold weather, besides keeping some of the
idiots out. ;)
The only caveat I have to add is that, during starting, the
charger output must be current limited. Most chargers have
a circuit breaker or thermal overload switch. It is not
good to rely on these to limit output current. If you get a
charger intended for permanent installation, this should not
be a problem. Otherwise, unplug before you start.
diggin it,
digger in fbx