CONVENTION JUDGING BULLSHIT
ICEMAN 435
I'd like to give a big fat FUCK YOU shout out to the judges in the costume
contest. I believe that myself along with just about the entire convention
could feel the bias in the air. Several of the people that won had several
things wrong with their costumes that other people did not yet still placed
higher. First off, the Frank contest was an absolute joke. Easily there were
two franks better than the one who won for the dinner scene outfit. For Crim
the crim that won was given the vicotry based off a prop- a kick ass book, not
costume. This crim wore a gray jacket, where as in the movie it's a black
crushed velvet that sometimes shines gray in certain lights...other Crims had a
much better jacket, but lacked the quality in PROPs! There were others that i
thought were off including Magenta, Eddie and Brad, but i'll save my gripe for
now. I also think that the bias isn't being hidden very well when judges get up
to hug their own cast members who just took first in one of the categories.
C'mon...if you're gonna dick us over at least try and do it without getting
caught!
I just think it's sad that people were sooo insecure about the quality of their
casts that they felt the need to "give" away some of the awards to their own
cast memebers to try and get noticed.....
ah well i guess human pride is just too much of a beast to handle.
Tom Kizansky
ihat...@spamsucks.com
judging.
The judges that were picked are from many different areas and casts with different
philosiphies. I only watched a small part of the judging, and I too was not
entirely enamored with the choices, but I wasn't a judge. But it's a damned if you
do, damned if you don't kind of thing.
Special kudos to the Brad who had himself done up as the statue. While I think the
judges were right to choose another Brad for first place, this costume in and of
itself deserves a special award for originality. (Fred's "Eddie" costume was also
fantastically originally -- by the way Fred, I love the new look as Eddie -- it's
great to see you with hair.)
DR. SCOTT
>I'd like to give a big fat FUCK YOU shout out to the judges in the costume
>contest. I believe that myself along with just about the entire convention
>could feel the bias in the air. Several of the people that won had several
>things wrong with their costumes that other people did not yet still placed
>higher. First off, the Frank contest was an absolute joke. Easily there were
>two franks better than the one who won for the dinner scene outfit. For Crim
>the crim that won was given the vicotry based off a prop- a kick ass book, not
>costume. This crim wore a gray jacket, where as in the movie it's a black
>crushed velvet that sometimes shines gray in certain lights...other Crims had a
>much better jacket, but lacked the quality in PROPs! There were others that i
>thought were off including Magenta, Eddie and Brad, but i'll save my gripe for
>now. I also think that the bias isn't being hidden very well when judges get up
>to hug their own cast members who just took first in one of the categories.
>C'mon...if you're gonna dick us over at least try and do it without getting
>caught!
i think the big problem is the misnomer of a "costume" contest. I
turned into mini shows frequently, and as you pointed out sometimes
someone would outprop someone with a far superior costume. Take for
instance Toby, the Eddie that got Honorable mention. His costume has
won him awards for most of his convention going experience. He had the
"frost" detailing on his jacket a REAL steel helmet, etc. Others were
missing things, yet they won for whatever reason.
In my case, I was light on some props for Dr. Scott, but had alot of
DETAIL items, and didn't do well. Sherri Timmerman's glasses are
closer, and I'll grant her that, I went looking and got VERY close,
but hers were definitely better. Bobbie on the other hand had rounded
glass, and didn't really do much from what I could see with any props.
NONE of the others had a teddy bear with a pen thorugh it, including
blood, NOR did their bear have MOVABLE joints like in the movie, mine
did. Both of the mustaches on the others were also either OVER done or
badly done. Mine is natural, not over done(his mustache is actually
rather THIN if you look).. I was in a rush doing Mark's makeup for
Eddie, and thought the costume contest was going to start alot sooner,
otherwise I would have taken the extra time I had to retreive most of
my props from my room in the other tower quickly. lastly, the judges
blew off my most significant costume piece, my tie. The judges later
said the major ding I got was for my tie, which is a HANDMADE silk,
made by a professional, that merely had too light a shade
backgrouns(was a wine red, not a burgundy< which I need to kill them
for). My tie had the right pattern otherwise, and cost me 445 for a
PAIR. Yet the other scotts had either stripes the wrong way, with the
wrong colors, or had ties WITHOUT stripes.
Again, I realize what's done is done, if their were any politics,
hopefully that will decrease in Colorado next year.
I did have a blast with those I did spend time with, as always. Most
notably would be "Mad Man"(Hello Mr. Furguson, this is the Denton
Hotel Security Chief), Quad(we never DID get to that drinking contest,
for various reasons), Ruth for talking shop and hanging out when I was
pissed, everyone from Barely Legal, all our friends at the
Topanga/Woodland hills theatre,Bawdy Cast, and of course Tuscon for
showing how to do a kickass special performance "old school". Props to
Charley for letting me hang during your rehearsal, it was a blast.
I'd like to that the other Dr. Scott's who performed before and after
me during the movie performance. We all did a damn bangup job of
person and wheel chair changes(did ya check out Sherri's
legs?(rrrrowW) :).
For those of you who missed the Star Trek Experience at the Vegas
Hilton, I can only say one thing: YOU MISSED OUT.
Fozzie and I downed our "Warp Core Breach" drink well before the food
ever showed up on our table, and were totally buzzed for a while. If
you've never seen this drink, imagine a small globe with dry ice, and
regular ice, for a smoking effect, filled with a fruity heavy
alchoholic drink :). Also, after most everyone had left for the night,
the attendant removed several ORGINAL Paramount trek props from their
cases, some costing over $3000 and let use handle them and drool :)
Wish I had my camera for that, it woulda been a blast.
As a bit of advice, from watching the judges up close, let me offer
the following: establish some form of order when doing the judging.
Different characters were allowed some options to show off stuff in a
flashier manner than other. Some weren't sure what they should do on
such short notice. Try to setup a criteria for evaluating the
characters, some sort of rating system. Also, some of the judges
weren't even aware of certain costume specifics. I heard judges
arguing about things like "this is round, no this is blue", then
finally taking the word on it from whoever they felt had more info.
Wanting some info to better in next con, I asked most judges about
what I got dinged on. After explaining certain items(something that
you can't really do during the contest), 2 of the 5 hadn't even
noticed certain pieces of our costumes at all, because it was hard to
light us off stage and their was very little room to move around in
front of the judges in a wheelchair. I personally think that for a
person to judge they should study the material readily availe on all
of the costume specs for every character and have them available for
reference AT THE JUDGING TABLE, not working off memory. It's really a
shame the guys who spend hours popping on rhinestones or whatever onto
costumes, duplicating colors and patterns, and because of someone's
lack of attention to detail they MISS it and damage the character's
chance of winning due to a judging failure.
-Scott Labrecque
Midnight Insanity
Brady Ferguson
>
> I'd like to give a big fat FUCK YOU shout out to the judges in the costume
> contest. I believe that myself along with just about the entire convention
> could feel the bias in the air.
It's sad to see you so worked up about this. Maybe instead of exerting
so much effort into your hatred, you should focus it into improving your
own costume or maybe watching the movie.
> Several of the people that won had several
> things wrong with their costumes .....snip.....
Of course not everyone is perfect like you seem to be displaying
yourself!!
> For Crim
> the crim that won was given the vicotry based off a prop- a kick ass book, not
> costume.
OK, now you're hitting home. Not only because I'm a Crim, but also
because the winner is a member of BARF (bay area rocky family).
> This crim wore a gray jacket, where as in the movie it's a black
> crushed velvet that sometimes shines gray in certain lights...other Crims had a
> much better jacket, but lacked the quality in PROPs!
First, the jacket is gray velour with black lapels. The lighting
actually can mask the gray to appear black (as I looked over some stills
I have, I can see where you might think it shows black). But also, the
book is as important to the part as the costuming is.
> There were others that i
> thought were off including Magenta, Eddie and Brad, but i'll save my gripe for
> now.
Please enlighten us, I'd love to hear your "opinions".
> I also think that the bias isn't being hidden very well when judges get up
> to hug their own cast members who just took first in one of the categories.
And where are you going to find a perfect judge that has no conflict of
interest? We're all involved in Rocky! I happen to know many of the
judges on the panel (very closely), and know that they are the fairest
of the fair. I personally didn't agree with every decision, but I know
for a fact that personal friendships or bias weren't a factor.
--
"More Drunk" Brady Ferguson
Asst Director/Webmaster/Brad/Crim
Barely Legal-Berkeley CA
http://www.barelylegal.org
RHFC1.2 V200@P1SY3 PB80+C1M1E1-D6W100+S2+L13Y2&&
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D(PRINGS)+T0500 QNAKP3H3+ YA23GmH(5'9")
Zenin
ICEMAN 435 <icem...@aol.com> wrote:
: I'd like to give a big fat FUCK YOU shout out to the judges in the costume
: contest. I believe that myself along with just about the entire convention
: could feel the bias in the air.
A quick search on DejaNews will probably show quite a few messages of
my own blasting Rocky costume contests, and Vegas Cons in particular,
as being full of shit. This one however, I think was pretty fair
overall. It wasn't perfect, but it was closer then most.
: Several of the people that won had several
: things wrong with their costumes that other people did not yet still placed
: higher. First off, the Frank contest was an absolute joke. Easily there were
: two franks better than the one who won for the dinner scene outfit.
I'll kind of agree here. The fucking stupid Frank with the whip
bullshit didn't help matters at all however. This and floorshow
Brad where the only ones I had some problems with, and not
really that much of a problem at that.
: For Crim
: the crim that won was given the vicotry based off a prop- a kick ass book, not
: costume. This crim wore a gray jacket, where as in the movie it's a black
: crushed velvet that sometimes shines gray in certain lights...other Crims had a
: much better jacket, but lacked the quality in PROPs!
Speeking as the winner of the Crim contest at the Fox 20th Con and
contributer to the Crim entry in Ruth's Anal Costume List, I think
I've pretty good ground to say that you sir, have absolutely no idea what
you are talking about in the least.
The Crim jacket is *gray* velure, *not* black, or even close to it. Black
lapels yes, but the jacket *is* gray, and a *light* "office" gray at that.
While many seens are darkly light, nearly any Crim still will clearly show
that the jacket is fact gray, such as the picture shown here:
http://archive.rhps.org/timewarp/acrim.gif
If you actually would like to know what the hell you're talking
about, fell free to visit the Crim entry in the Anal Costume List:
http://www.wwa.com/~wbarsell/anlcrim.htm
Note entry three, and I quote, "Gray velvet jacket with black velvet
lower lapels". ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Julie won Crim hands down, and had she competed with that costume at
the 20th I can quite honestly say she would have given Larry and I a
hell of a run for our money.
As for the book, for Crim that is as much a part of the costome as
the laser gun is for space Riff. With or without the book however,
Julie had that costume nailed and to imply anything less is nothing
less then an insult and a lie.
: There were others that i
: thought were off including Magenta, Eddie and Brad, but i'll save my gripe for
: now.
No, please, indulge us. I love comedy.
: I also think that the bias isn't being hidden very well when judges get up
: to hug their own cast members who just took first in one of the categories.
: C'mon...if you're gonna dick us over at least try and do it without getting
: caught!
Hmm, interesting, which parts and which judges exactly?
Larry, MMMike, and Bill where the only NY people I knew at the Con and
none entered, so that takes out Quad.
Only one ex-Indecent Exposure member competed, and that was for
Shock Treatment (which you didn't list as having a bias), so that
takes Becky out.
A number of Midnight Insanity people competed, but the ones I
remember winning, again are not in your list of biased parts (Crim,
Frank, Magenta, Eddie, or Brad), so that takes out Kristeen.
Where there any other judges? -Sorry, I can't remember off hand.
Do Rocky people tend to hug alot in general, same cast or not? Hell
yes we do.
: I just think it's sad that people were sooo insecure about the quality of their
: casts that they felt the need to "give" away some of the awards to their own
: cast memebers to try and get noticed.....
Name them. So far, the only details you have offered at all (for
Crim) are *dead* wrong.
: ah well i guess human pride is just too much of a beast to handle.
I guess so...
--
-Zenin (ze...@archive.rhps.org) Your Official ORGy sites!
The Bawdy Caste (Fremont, CA) www.bawdycaste.org
Barely Legal (Berzerkly, CA) www.barelylegal.org
Rocky Horror Archive (Earth) www.archive.rhps.org
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The Fixxer
I have been a judge in the costume contests, and I know that there are several
factors that are considered:
(These are not official guidelines but I have spoken enough to judges to form
this synopsis that works for me)
Costume completeness
This includes the costume that is worn and props that are particular to a
certain character i.e. a Magenta with a featherduster beats the same magenta
without one.
Costume accuracy
Here they look for patterns, colors and to a lesser degree materials unless
the material makes a blatant obvious difference
Attitude
The guy who had the whip as Frank and Hit Bill in the eye was displaying lack
of reasonable caution...not attitude.
Another factor that comes in to it...though it should not but it is human
nature...is how much the person looks like the character. It is hard to
separate but that should not be in my opinion what the judging should be on.
I find it very unclassy to hear a group yelling BS BS BS because their entrant
did not win.
Mark
Midnight Insanity
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
Frank #7
(ICEMAN 435) wrote:
> ah well i guess human pride is just too much of a beast to handle.
>
> Tom Kizansky
i admit needing a perspective adjustment after the contests, but i'm about
as well adjusted as i'm ever going to get now (interpret that however you
like), and ready say my piece (this is not a response to what tom said,
just my opinion on the con judging and BS, generally):
i would have voted differently, but i wasn't voting. if i had been voting,
i would have brought my own biases: because i'm human, not because i'd be
a bad judge. the only fuck yous should be to judges who claim to know
everything and be entirely unbiased.
congratulations to those of you who received, and deserved, recognition for
your costumes! there were a lot more good costumes than there were little
pieces of plastic to go around, and for those who didn't get one and isn't
whining, congratulations and thanks!
anyone who can't handle the results, no matter what they are, shouldn't
enter contests.
'nuff said...please?
--
See the Rocky Horror Picture Show Saturdays at Midnight
The Varsity Theatre, Seattle, WA
Live performance by The Vicarious Theatre Company
Come into our Parlor... Visit our Website www.thezenroom.com
Ruth Fink-Winter or Walter S. Barsell
I enjoy judging, but the aftermath always seems to really suck. (I
think it's "Kill the ump" syndrome.) I'd also like to add that a new
division I would like to see in costume contests is "Best Cross-Gender
Costume." I think it is harder to do a cross-gender costume, and this
would be a nice way to recognize people who work so hard on their
costumes that you're left wondering which chromosomes they have.
ICEMAN 435 wrote:
>
> I'd like to give a big fat FUCK YOU shout out to the judges in the costume
> contest. I believe that myself along with just about the entire convention
> could feel the bias in the air.
Considering the people who judged were almost the same as at the NYC
con, where remarkably few people complained afterwards, I doubt it.
>Several of the people that won had several
> things wrong with their costumes that other people did not yet still placed
> higher. First off, the Frank contest was an absolute joke. Easily there were
> two franks better than the one who won for the dinner scene outfit.
Well, I didn't see all of the entrants as I was staffing the table for
"Crazed Imaginations" and selling buttons in Gene's absence. However, I
did get a very close look at the Frank dinner outfit in the bathroom.
She had the open-toed boots, the rip under the underarm wasn't hemmed,
the rhinestone buttons, and the best dinner hat I've ever seen--the
correct pattern, the blue feather, correctly-colored streamers, and even
the little miniature wings on either side. The only things I noticed
that weren't quite right about her costume was the rhinestones were a
little large, she didn't have the small oval medallion-thing on Frank's
chest, and there was no plastic over the toes of her boots.
These are all very minor details.
I would be very impressed by a Frank who won over her.
For Crim
> the crim that won was given the vicotry based off a prop- a kick ass book, not
> costume.
Absolutely not. Julie very much deserved to win this costume contest.
She worked very hard to improve her costume after New York, had a
gorgeous Crim ascot, and a correctly-colored jacket. What Zenin said.
She learned from losing, was gracious about it, and came to Vegas
looking great.
The only category I didn't understand myself was the Janet category.
(Keep in mind I didn't see all of the Janets either.) There was a woman
wearing a very nice purple Janet dress with back princess seams, a
lovely bouquet with correctly colored ribbon, a very good hat, and a
silver-chained correctly shaped purse with the clasp who apparently
didn't place. I am still wondering whose costume was so good that they
beat her.
BAN...@NI.NET (DR. SCOTT) wrote:
>As a bit of advice, from watching the judges up close, let me offer
>the following: establish some form of order when doing the judging.
>Different characters were allowed some options to show off stuff in a
>flashier manner than other. Some weren't sure what they should do on
>such short notice. Try to setup a criteria for evaluating the
>characters, some sort of rating system.
But please, please don't make the judges fill out points for each
category. As a judge who dealt with this in Anaheim, it was really,
really confusing and probably made the results less reliable, especially
for contests with many contenders (12 or more) as we were pressed for
time.
>Also, some of the judges
>weren't even aware of certain costume specifics. I heard judges
>arguing about things like "this is round, no this is blue", then
>finally taking the word on it from whoever they felt had more info.
This is unfortunate, but I don't think there's anything we can do about
this except make sure there are really good judges at a contest and that
they talk, not just fill out a judging form.
> Wanting some info to better in next con, I asked most judges about
> what I got dinged on.
I wish more people would do this instead of screaming and hollering
about how they were robbed. If you are going to do this, please do so
soon after the contest, if possible while in the costume. It's hard to
retain all the exact details of each costume, especially for divisions
with multiple entries (like Columbia contests with 15 Columbias).
> After explaining certain items(something that
> you can't really do during the contest), 2 of the 5 hadn't even
> noticed certain pieces of our costumes at all,
This is always a problem. And I prefer contestants who don't go out of
character to show off their stuff. If contestants make an effort to
show off details while IN CHARACTER, I like it. (Moving a teddy bear's
legs, looking at your watch, playing with a ring, etc.) It should be
specified whether contestants will be judged on character or just as
clotheshorses. If character is a judging criterion, smiling like a
maniac while showing off multiple details could lose you character
points.
Of course, for Dr. Scotts, I'm not sure how you'd highlight the correct
direction of the stripes other than maybe stroking your tie. It's been
suggested that judges examine the costumes ahead of the contest, or that
there be a detail list. If you know who's judging, showing off your
details to them ahead of the contest might be a good idea. I'm not sure
whether as a judge I would appreciate this or it would annoy me.
> because it was hard to light us off stage
I strongly feel if at all possible the judges should be on the same
level as the contestants. It's very hard to closely examine a costume
of someone who is standing on a 3 foot stage above you.
> I personally think that for a
> person to judge they should study the material readily availe on all
> of the costume specs for every character
This is a bitch, but should be done. Especially for costumes like the
Trannies who don't get that much attention. (Speaking as a former
judge, the idea of having to know the costumes of all the Trannies gave
me the heebie-jeebies. But I tried.)
> and have them available for
> reference AT THE JUDGING TABLE, not working off memory.
Hmm. Maybe some stills for things like the Trannies. Written stuff
would take too long, and stills will make the contests even longer.
You'd have to have pre-judging or the audience would revolt.
icem...@aol.com (ICEMAN 435) wrote:
>>And where are you going to find a perfect judge that has no conflict of
>>interest
>obviously you're not, but you should have a judge from each of the >larger
>productions, and in particular if you have a judge from a cast that is
>geographically close to another cast you may want to consider having a >judge
>for that cast as well
Speaking from my own experience, I have never seen judges vote unfairly
in favor of their own castmembers. If anything, judges are harder on
people from their own cast--they don't want to be biased, and since they
see the costumes every week, they know exactly what's wrong with them.
I think it is more important to have judges who know all the different
costumes than to pick judges geograpnically. Of course, as someone who
is not from a "larger production" but who has made a hobby out of Rocky
costume details, I'm biased.
Your mileage may vary,
Ruth Fink-Winter
keeper of the Anal Costume List,
http://www.wwa.com/~wbarsell/ruth.html
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Wally's Warped Archives |Crazed Imaginations:a RHPS fanzine
http://www.wwa.com/~wbarsell |$30 for 12 issues in the US
--------------------------------|Crazed Imaginations/PO Box 1548
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Brady Ferguson
> I actually didn't enter the costume contest because i didn't feel my costume
> was up to par cuase i'd heard how anal judging was
As it should be. How else can you choose between the four or so
Magentas that had such quality costumes? You have to look for such
specifics to pick the best.....
> but turns out my costume
> easily rivaled the ones in my category, and i will surely enter and win
> something next year...
You never can tell who will be competing.... for example the Space Riff
category.... if I were a Riff, I'd probably be reluctant to participate
because Fred has put together such a great ensemble.... but she didn't
participate, soooooo....
> obviously you're not, but you should have a judge from each of the larger
> productions,
The judges are selected because of their years of experience with casts,
auditioning, directing, and knowing their shit. Being a large or small
production has nothing to do with it.
> and in particular if you have a judge from a cast that is
> geographically close to another cast you may want to consider having a judge
> for that cast as well particularly if there's a rivalry. an example of this si
> the fact that sins of the flesh from LA was not represented in judging where as
> midnight insanity was and there is a reckognized rivalry...similarly the
> topanga cast was not represented either and they are close to both those
> casts....
Blah blah blah.... and if the moon is a half-crescent on the third day
of the new month, cut the number of judges in half so the people in the
4th quadrant are equally represented......
Sorry - I just think you went in a such a random tangent of cast
wars.... You just need fair judges who know what the fuck their doing.
> if it means more judges in terms of numbers then so be it.
Joe indicated to me that we had a much larger judging crew than in the
past.... and I think it was just right.
> no matter what you think, i know a great many people agree that this was a
> croc. many have e mailed me but don't want to say it on here cause they don't
> want to start up a lame cast war. i don't either, and that's why i didn't sign
> my cast.
It's too bad not everyone can share their opinions openly. By not
bringing their individual opinions to the table, we can't debate the
topic very well. Just because I don't agree with you on every point,
doesn't mean my cast hates yours.
Hersheycj
Tom Kizansky... I find I know you too well. At least i give you props. I
understand a lot more about the judging of the costume contests now :)
ICEMAN 435
>
>It's sad to see you so worked up about this. Maybe instead of exerting
>so much effort into your hatred, you should focus it into improving your
>own costume or maybe watching the movie.
>
I actually didn't enter the costume contest because i didn't feel my costume
was up to par cuase i'd heard how anal judging was but turns out my costume
easily rivaled the ones in my category, and i will surely enter and win
something next year...1-3 will be just fine. actually i thought the Brad
contest, which is my fav. character, was pretty damned fair. I liked the guy i
the statue get up, but to all you who think he should have won, his robe was
way off, and getting 2nd was only cause of originality he technically should
have gotten 3rd...the 1st and 3rd brad(i think they're from the same cast) were
very good and deserved to be up there above the rest that were off to the left.
>
>Please enlighten us, I'd love to hear your "opinions".
>
ok...for starters, the trixie in the black outfit(the tiny girl) from Wild and
Untamed Things should have done better than honorable mention......
Mark shouldn't have won Eddie. he's a good eddie, but he's not better than
Toby. Toby had the frost on his jacket, a much better wig, and definitly a
closer jacket and sax...the bike won it for mark- again props beating
costume....
only time props or a mini prformance should beat costume is in the event of a
tie, but for eddie this should not have happened...toby deserved more than
honorable mention.
>
>And where are you going to find a perfect judge that has no conflict of
>interest
obviously you're not, but you should have a judge from each of the larger
productions, and in particular if you have a judge from a cast that is
geographically close to another cast you may want to consider having a judge
for that cast as well particularly if there's a rivalry. an example of this si
the fact that sins of the flesh from LA was not represented in judging where as
midnight insanity was and there is a reckognized rivalry...similarly the
topanga cast was not represented either and they are close to both those
casts....
if it means more judges in terms of numbers then so be it.
no matter what you think, i know a great many people agree that this was a
croc. many have e mailed me but don't want to say it on here cause they don't
want to start up a lame cast war. i don't either, and that's why i didn't sign
my cast.
Tom Kizansky
Tom Kizansky
ICEMAN 435
>
>Another factor that comes in to it...though it should not but it is human
>nature...is how much the person looks like the character.
if this is how it was judged then you would have lost to toby, and Magenta #9
would have won
>I find it very unclassy to hear a group yelling BS BS BS because their
>entrant
>did not win.
>
>Mark
_______
it has nothing to do with my cast getting screwed, we did just fine... it has
to do with fairness
Tom Kizansky
Tom Kizansky
ICEMAN 435
>
>Tom Kizansky... I find I know you too well. At least i give you props. I
>understand a lot more about the judging of the costume contests now :)
>
>
Hey Hershey-
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
call me
:-)
TK
Tom Kizansky
Zenin
>snip<
: I actually didn't enter the costume contest because i didn't feel my costume
: was up to par cuase i'd heard how anal judging was but turns out my costume
: easily rivaled the ones in my category, and i will surely enter and win
: something next year...1-3 will be just fine.
That's a pretty bold statement to make. The entrants every Con very
quite a bit.
: actually i thought the Brad
: contest, which is my fav. character, was pretty damned fair.
Of course, when you agree with the findings there couldn't have been
any bias...
>snip<
: >Please enlighten us, I'd love to hear your "opinions".
: ok...for starters, the trixie in the black outfit(the tiny girl) from Wild and
: Untamed Things should have done better than honorable mention......
Why? Details, please.
Remember, while Trixie at most shows is basically a soft core
stripper, it is almost *never* judged as such at Cons. Ties back
to the play ("Cigarette Girl", "Usurete(sp?)", etc), creativity,
and actual work are most often the deciding factors.
While I agree the The WaUT Trixie was very attractive and had a nice
outfit, it wasn't (IMHO!) very original or creative, nore was it
something that could not be bought at your local Frederic's.
: Mark shouldn't have won Eddie. he's a good eddie, but he's not better than
: Toby. Toby had the frost on his jacket, a much better wig, and definitly a
: closer jacket and sax...the bike won it for mark- again props beating
: costume....
Maybe, maybe not. But how can you say it was biased? Incase you
didn't know, Toby was in both Ruth's and Kris's old casts.
Again, just because *you* don't agree with the judges does not
mean that there was any bias.
: >And where are you going to find a perfect judge that has no conflict of
: >interest
:
: obviously you're not, but you should have a judge from each of the larger
: productions,
It's a nice thought, but not very practical. Not all (hell, not
even most) of the larger productions have any single person that
knows *all* the costumes well enough to judge an entire contest.
: and in particular if you have a judge from a cast that is
: geographically close to another cast you may want to consider having a judge
: for that cast as well particularly if there's a rivalry. an example of this si
: the fact that sins of the flesh from LA was not represented in judging where as
: midnight insanity was and there is a reckognized rivalry...
I'll be the first to admit I'm quite behind on the current structure
of Sins. As such, would you please offer a suggestion of someone
from there cast that #1, knows all the costumes in detail, and #2 is
well known and respected in the greater Rocky world for said
knowledge?
: similarly the topanga cast was not represented either and they are close to
: both those casts....
I thought you said, "larger productions". Nothing against Topanga,
however they are still in there infancy. And again, if you would,
please offer us a suggestion from there cast that meets the two
criteria above.
: if it means more judges in terms of numbers then so be it.
I'm all for more judges, so long as they are competent, known, and
respected by the general Rocky world.
I do not see however, how having a couple dozen incompetent
judges would make the contests any more fair.
: no matter what you think, i know a great many people agree that this was a
: croc. many have e mailed me but don't want to say it on here cause they don't
: want to start up a lame cast war. i don't either, and that's why i didn't sign
: my cast.
Every year people think these contests are a crock (myself often
included). They are far from perfect, and I've yet to ever hear
anyone state otherwise.
However, outside of asking for a larger panel of judges, you have
offered absolutely *nothing* in the way of methods to improve the
situation. You have only bitched and whined that the people you
thought should have won didn't. Most of the tiny evidence you
site for why you feel this way is highly inaccurate at best.
Zenin
: First off, I'd just like to say I'm glad I wasn't judging at this con.
Sorry, I could have *sworn* you did this con... :-/
But then, I had had one or two drinks that night. <grin>
: I enjoy judging, but the aftermath always seems to really suck. (I
: think it's "Kill the ump" syndrome.)
Yep. :-)
: I'd also like to add that a new division I would like to see in
: costume contests is "Best Cross-Gender Costume." I think it is harder
: to do a cross-gender costume, and this
: would be a nice way to recognize people who work so hard on their
: costumes that you're left wondering which chromosomes they have.
I like this idea. I wouldn't split it up much more then that
though. Maybe just one category to group it all in, kind of
like ST is normally done. -There just aren't enough x-gender
contestants to cut the parts up.
: BAN...@NI.NET (DR. SCOTT) wrote:
: >As a bit of advice, from watching the judges up close, let me offer
: >the following: establish some form of order when doing the judging.
: >Different characters were allowed some options to show off stuff in a
: >flashier manner than other. Some weren't sure what they should do on
: >such short notice. Try to setup a criteria for evaluating the
: >characters, some sort of rating system.
:
: But please, please don't make the judges fill out points for each
: category. As a judge who dealt with this in Anaheim, it was really,
: really confusing and probably made the results less reliable, especially
: for contests with many contenders (12 or more) as we were pressed for
: time.
I'd actually like to see more of a known points based system,
at least combined with some form of "pre-judge" system as we've
been discussing in the current "judging costumes" (message ID:
<keightp.80...@goodnet.com>) thread.
It's only really the show time crunch that messes up a
points/criteria system. If we can take that part out of the
show line up is would make it much less stressful. Also, it
would allow time for the judges to double check references if
they needed to, which is pretty much impossible with the
current systems.
: >Also, some of the judges
: >weren't even aware of certain costume specifics. I heard judges
: >arguing about things like "this is round, no this is blue", then
: >finally taking the word on it from whoever they felt had more info.
:
: This is unfortunate, but I don't think there's anything we can do about
: this
>snip...<
Check out the "judging costumes" thread. I think we might have
some ideas for helping this problem.
: except make sure there are really good judges at a contest and that
: they talk, not just fill out a judging form.
Agreed. After all, even juries talk.
>snip<
: >obviously you're not, but you should have a judge from each of the >larger
: >productions, and in particular if you have a judge from a cast that is
: >geographically close to another cast you may want to consider having a >judge
: >for that cast as well
:
: Speaking from my own experience, I have never seen judges vote unfairly
: in favor of their own castmembers.
You weren't at the 16th, were you? :-)
BMilanio
>If anything, judges are harder on
>people from their own cast--
That's the truth...Just ask Jaimie about her Janet hat at the 20th!!!
Becky
Indecent Exposure
P.S. -- Thanks Ruth for your thoughts!!!!!
The Fixxer
It seems there are those on here who want to screen out costumes that are not
qualified. I think it is great to make an accurate costume. It is also fun to
strategize on how to win.
I told Scott L (thanks for the great scar work every week pal) that I did not
want a big scar like I do in Long Beach...but a more normal size one that would
have less of a horror effect than I usually wear, but I guessed that the judges
would probably mark me off for an innacurate scar if it stood out...but they
would probably be more likely to assume it was accurate even if it was not if
it was less obtrusive.
I think to turn the costume contest into a piece by piece ranking means you
will quickly get to where there is no more need for costume contests.....There
will be so many equal costumes.
That is why I like to see a little character...I will never see many of these
people perform so to get a taste of their attitude is exciting to me. Someone
mentioned that they should not be turned into clothes horses.
And I think you have to see the costume on them so you can get some
perspective. Really....does it fit that character like it should...or is it a
great coat but ten sized to large and does the person look like they are
wearing their parents suit..another way to put it:
Are they wearing the costume or is the costume wearing them?
I am sorry to Gene, Kris, Becky M, et al...all people who have been recognized
as winners themselves at one time or another...either by being contest winners
OR by being honored by Sal or in Beckys case being given a plaque at 20th by
FOx themselves....I mean..these were some major Rocky legends up there. And
some damn nice people. Now you take and invalidate these people by telling them
their judgement was BS?
Whoever does not like the judging should prove they know what they are talking
about....show their costume knowledge and request to be a judge themselves.
It hurt me that Toby did not place better. He did not bitch that I won...and I
would have been just as happy if he won because he is my friend and he has a
good heart.
I also think it is unfair to the people that won to tarnish the contest with
this petty bickering.
If you can't go to a con with a good attitude, can't role with the punches, and
can't stomach the BS that happens because there is always one or two or more
dissenting opinions from theirs...then do what some other casts have
done....spurn the con
Me..I love the game.
Mark Tomaino
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
Xkristine1
Tom--
Just for your info. I was a judge, and even I didn't agree with many of the
winning choices.
BUT:
How DARE you accuse me (the only MI representative on the judging panel, even
though I am not in cast anymore, and haven't been for a long time) of being
biased against Sins of the Flesh! How could I possibly vote against SotF when I
don't even know which contestants are from there? This so called rivalry has
always been in name only, and any real conflict was resolved long before you
hit the scene. Hell, half the time I didnt' even know if a contestant was with
MI or Chicago!
I can understand you saying you didn't agree with the choices. Many people
aren't. But that is just the way it is. We ALL have different opinions, and
different views. Thats why the judges argue up there.
You sound like you want a judge from every cast in the country! And if we had
more judges, the contest would NOT be more "fair", it could just take a lot
longer. There will NEVER be a costume contest that everyone is happy with.
Everyone disagrees with one winner or another. Me included. I can live with it.
Did cast politics and/or favoritism play a part in decisions? I don't think so,
on either my part of the other judges parts, but that is my opinion.
Have you ever judged a RHPS costume contest? No. And until you've been in these
platforms, baby, shut the hell up.
As I said at the con: "It's very hard to judge these contests, and for those of
you who aren't happy with all of the decisions the judges would like to say:
F**k You!"
-Kristine
PS-- although I love Toby dearly, and he knows it, Mark's costume was much much
more correct. I could probably give you details, but I don't think it prudent.
YOU are the one letting personal biases into this.
Tom writes:
.>obviously you're not, but you should have a judge from each of the larger
>productions, and in particular if you have a judge from a cast that is
>geographically close to another cast you may want to consider having a judge
>for that cast as well particularly if there's a rivalry. an example of this
>si
>the fact that sins of the flesh from LA was not represented in judging where
>as
>midnight insanity was and there is a reckognized rivalry...similarly the
>topanga cast was not represented either and they are close to both those
>casts....
>
>if it means more judges in terms of numbers then so be it.
>no matter what you think, i know a great many people agree that this was a
>croc. many have e mailed me but don't want to say it on here cause they don't
>want to start up a lame cast war. i don't either, and that's why i didn't
>sign
>my cast.
>
>Tom Kizansky
>
Xkristine1
>A number of Midnight Insanity people competed, but the ones I
> remember winning, again are not in your list of biased parts (Crim,
> Frank, Magenta, Eddie, or Brad), so that takes out Kristeen.
Ahem... I know I am going to be linked with MI forever and ever (amen) because
of, well, everything, but you should know that I am no longer a cast member and
havn't been for about a year. But I am also their harshest critic.
I have openly said that I did not agree with some of the final decisions, but I
was only one voice in a panel of 7, and must bow to the will of the majority.
-kristine
Xkristine1
>But please, please don't make the judges fill out points for each
>category. As a judge who dealt with this in Anaheim, it was really,
>really confusing and probably made the results less reliable,
I know I know... This was an attempt to knock out the desease we are now
showing the symptoms of. It's called "I don't like it so it must be wrong".
But, as you know, it didn't work. Every damn costume contest I have ever seen
has someone crying about the injustice of it all. What can you do? Gees people.
Lets *try* to keep Rocky fun, and take it all with a grain of salt.
Great to see you, Ruth :-)
-Kristine
The Fixxer
>Subject: Re: CONVENTION JUDGING BULLSHIT
>From: icem...@aol.com (ICEMAN 435)
>Date: 10/12/98 5:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <19981012204703...@ng93.aol.com>
>
>
>>
>>Another factor that comes in to it...though it should not but it is human
>>nature...is how much the person looks like the character.
>_____
>if this is how it was judged then you would have lost to toby, and Magenta #9
>would have won
Maybe...but should there be a contest to see whos genetics are the same or who
put the most effort in?
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
MoogGeek
>Maybe...but should there be a contest to see whos genetics are the same or
>who
>put the most effort in?
if i remember correctly, you were a judge for the toga contest..... practice
what you preach.
i know people inside and out of my cast who spent lots of time energy and money
(as i previously posted) on thier toga, and the effort was obvious. Yet, at
least 2 people won obviously for thier assets and not the costume. No offense,
but nothing is sexy about a ripped bedsheet and painted boobies. (besides i can
see that after any wild night with the right guy, but i digress...) and guys
bare chest with a plain white toga skirt doesnt show effort to me. his pecs
won, not what he was wearing (again, im not complaining about the nudity, i
just dont think it deserved a prize)
but anyways..... if youd like to see a contest based on effort, i think you
should start with the contests you judge.
XoXoX
*Lizz*
AJJTL Tucson's Most *Glittering* Groupie
http://members.xoom.com/rhpstucson/ (A Jump to the Left Site)
http://www.angelfire.com/az/weezergeek/ (My Site)
RHFC1.2 V75@A-P1S3RL6 J3M1C30@O5@(Trixie)P3&&
C4P3 IN- MA1(nell)M1(nell)C3B2R10@T3V2
D4T4am QNA&KP5@H2 PA18BBp2t1GfH(5'11)L(Tucson)Sm
ANGELZ173
>v...@thezenroom.com (Frank #7) wrote:
> there were a lot more good costumes than there were little
>pieces of plastic to go around, and for those who didn't get one and isn't
>whining, congratulations and thanks!
>
>anyone who can't handle the results, no matter what they are, shouldn't
>enter contests.
>
>'nuff said...please?
Amen!!!
-Angela
BMilanio
> I also think that the bias isn't being hidden very well when judges get up
>: to hug their own cast members
As a judge for the costume contest, and a member of Indecent Exposure, only
one of my cast members (Jaimie in ST) entered the costume contest (and for the
record she did not hug me)...some of the winners, in fact, hugged the judges,
a lot of other entrants we all know from our many years of interaction with
other casts, meeting people at conventions.
Very, very few awards were won by actors from the same cast as the judges
The winners were represented by the following casts:
Frank -- Las Vegas (Katie)
Janet -- Barely Legal (Zora)
Brad -- Bawdy Caste (Jeff)
Riff Raff -- Midnight Insanity (Marty)
Magenta -- Barely Legal (Brigid)
Columbia -- NYC (Shannon)
Dr. Scott -- St. Louis (Sherri)
Eddie -- Midnight Insanity (Mark)
Rocky -- Barely Legal (Jared)
ST -- Indecent Exposure / Midnight Insanity (Jaimie and Mark)
Trixie -- Barbara (No cast affiliation)
Trannie -- Sins O' The Flesh (Jessie)
Crim -- Bawdy Caste (Julie)
Most Creative -- Complete Crazy (Fred)
The judges represented the following casts:
Alicia Wallace -- NYC Cast
Bill Brennan -- NYC Cast
Bev Garrish -- Denver's Dynamic Tension
Gene Chiavari -- Complete Crazy
Kristine Martin --Midnight Insanity
Becky Milanio -- Indecent Exposure
Lisa Wood -- Castle Transylvanians
Remember that the winners were a majority opinion (and in some cases an
unanimous opinion) of the judges, thus removing any bias'
I would like to thank everyone who did enter the contest and ...like Kristine
Martin said...each year it gets more difficult!!!!!
Becky A Milanio
Indecent Exposure
The Extreme Reverend Tracy Lucas Swineford
would be if we were all nice to each other for a change, Zenin
<ze...@bawdycaste.org> had the temerity to say:
>While I agree the The WaUT Trixie was very attractive and had a nice
> outfit, it wasn't (IMHO!) very original or creative, nore was it
> something that could not be bought at your local Frederic's.
Nor did it match. Unless the black top and red panties was an
intentional color scheme. but that's something that can go either way.
--
The Extreme Reverend extre...@myflat.com
Tracy Lucas Swineford
PreShow M.C.-Midnight Insanity Art Theatre, Long Beach,CA
"We have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is your own
problem."
STILL your RockyCon Limbo Champion [2-0! Who's Next?]
Midnight Insanity Attitude- http://www.midnightinsanity.com - Sign the
Freak Book!
The Fixxer
>Message-id: <19981012204321...@ng93.aol.com>
>>It's sad to see you so worked up about this. Maybe instead of exerting
>>so much effort into your hatred, you should focus it into improving your
>>own costume or maybe watching the movie.
>>
>
>I actually didn't enter the costume contest because i didn't feel my costume
>was up to par cuase i'd heard how anal judging was but turns out my costume
>easily rivaled the ones in my category, and i will surely enter and win
>something next year...1-3 will be just fine. actually i thought the Brad
>contest, which is my fav. character, was pretty damned fair. I liked the guy
>i
>the statue get up, but to all you who think he should have won, his robe was
>way off, and getting 2nd was only cause of originality he technically should
>have gotten 3rd...the 1st and 3rd brad(i think they're from the same cast)
>were
>very good and deserved to be up there above the rest that were off to the
>left.
>
>
>>
>>Please enlighten us, I'd love to hear your "opinions".
>>
>
>ok...for starters, the trixie in the black outfit(the tiny girl) from Wild
>and
>Untamed Things should have done better than honorable mention......
>Mark shouldn't have won Eddie. he's a good eddie, but he's not better than
>Toby. Toby had the frost on his jacket, a much better wig, and definitly a
>closer jacket and sax...the bike won it for mark- again props beating
>costume....
>
>only time props or a mini prformance should beat costume is in the event of a
>tie, but for eddie this should not have happened...toby deserved more than
>honorable mention.
>
>>
>>And where are you going to find a perfect judge that has no conflict of
>>interest
>
>obviously you're not, but you should have a judge from each of the larger
>productions, and in particular if you have a judge from a cast that is
>geographically close to another cast you may want to consider having a judge
>for that cast as well particularly if there's a rivalry. an example of this
>si
>the fact that sins of the flesh from LA was not represented in judging where
>as
>midnight insanity was and there is a reckognized rivalry...
I ask again....where is the rivalry? We have different audiences, have always
helped each other when needed....there is no rivalry.
similarly the
>topanga cast was not represented either and they are close to both those
>casts....
I think that the selecting of judges was based on people who are known to have
thorough knowledge of Rocky..people who have received honors or awards or
special recognition that lends to them the credibility to judge a costume. Else
you need 100 judges to be fair. Is that what you are saying? And who represents
the people who are not affiliated with a cast?
Mark
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
ANGELZ173
>(ICEMAN 435) wrote:
>>Another factor that comes in to it...though it should not but it is human
>>nature...is how much the person looks like the character.
>_____
>if this is how it was judged then you would have lost to toby, and Magenta #9
>would have won
The Magenta contest I feel was very close, but I also feel was judged very
well. In my opinion the Magenta that won looked dead on! She might not have
been quite as tall as Pat, but that's the *only* thing that seperated her.
-Angela
SkyBoy UZ
>
>Frank -- Las Vegas (Katie)
>Janet -- Barely Legal (Zora)
>Brad -- Bawdy Caste (Jeff)
>Riff Raff -- Midnight Insanity (Marty)
>Magenta -- Barely Legal (Brigid)
>Columbia -- NYC (Shannon)
>Dr. Scott -- St. Louis (Sherri)
>Eddie -- Midnight Insanity (Mark)
>Rocky -- Barely Legal (Jared)
>ST -- Indecent Exposure / Midnight Insanity (Jaimie and Mark)
>Trixie -- Barbara (No cast affiliation)
>Trannie -- Sins O' The Flesh (Jessie)
>Crim -- Bawdy Caste (Julie)
>Most Creative -- Complete Crazy (Fred)
>
>The judges represented the following casts:
>
>Alicia Wallace -- NYC Cast
>Bill Brennan -- NYC Cast
>Bev Garrish -- Denver's Dynamic Tension
>Gene Chiavari -- Complete Crazy
>Kristine Martin --Midnight Insanity
>Becky Milanio -- Indecent Exposure
>Lisa Wood -- Castle Transylvanians
_____________
i don't want to get in on this whole mess, but you didn't help your point there
very much Becky...
4 of the panel have members who won, and some were in "arguable" categories
according to others who have posted.
just making an observation is all...
Bernie
Sins O' The Flesh(Nuart Theatre_LA)
SkyBoy UZ
>I'll be the first to admit I'm quite behind on the current structure
> of Sins. As such, would you please offer a suggestion of someone
> from there cast that #1, knows all the costumes in detail, and #2 is
> well known and respected in the greater Rocky world for said
> knowledge?
___________
I don't want to jump into this whole thing, but i'd like to comment on this
take. i could put forth a good 2 or 3 members of sins O'(<-----NO "F"!!!) the
Flesh that no practically every role, and could easily brush up on the one or
two they don't, for instance Marylin knows just about everything, Jason as
well, and as of late since i've been doing much in the way of helping some of
our cast on accurate costumes and spoke to most category winners, i know quite
a bit myself about each character. As for well known and respected, blah blah,
that is a matter of opinion. it'd have been nice to have a rep on the panel but
i have no complaints, we did well enough.
>-
>-Zenin (ze...@archive.rhps.org) Your Official ORGy sites!
> The Bawdy Caste
dude you guys were the shit....so much energy, and two great brads...dan is
awesome.
The Fixxer
I have decided that I support doing the costume contest in the afternoon before
con...set up fifteen minute reviews or so and let the characters come and not
take up show time with the evaluations. At the con just introduce teh winners
or placers or showers. This has been constructive and if this is what is meant
my pre judgiing system I am in favor. I am putting that in my notes.
But I personally feel that accesories inidignous toa character are bonus
points...however using another character as a prop has always been a turnoff to
me
Mark.
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
SkyBoy UZ
>
>Nor did it match. Unless the black top and red panties was an
>intentional color scheme. but that's something that can go either way.
>
>--
>The Extreme Reverend extre...@myflat.com
>Tracy Lucas Swineford
>
Tracy-
it was as sexy! just you in your rip away Moulder outfit!!!
:-)
Two words-
SUCK IT!!!!
hehehehe
j/k
:-)
Bernie
Sins O' The Flesh
The Fixxer
To be fair to the toga contest judges....I was chosen as a judge JUST as the
contest started. We were given seven categories. No other instructions. There
was one thing I regretted...I definitely thought the guy in the purple robe had
most bizarre or whatever but as we were lining up the winners we could not find
him...I looked desparately and we choose someone else. Then he went on stage
and I dont know why but he was at that point not one of the winners. We were
told to judge right now so we got the people together. We were not instructed
to parade the people nor given music or mike until the winners had been
decided. Sorry I did not feel it was my place to make this my own production
and start comandeering the stage and putting on a show. I agree that would have
made better theater but we were thrown in cold. Again...if you did not like the
decisions get over it. I may be wrong but werent you bitching about the same
thing in Anaheim?
As far as bare breasts go I think it takes some nards to walk around exposing
your organs...I could be wrong. I think it takes a lot of confidence I know I
don't have...or maybe it is a sickness I dont have...either way....
Mark
>Subject: Re: CONVENTION JUDGING BULLSHIT
>From: moog...@aol.comNoSpam (MoogGeek)
>Date: 10/12/98 10:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <19981013013450...@ng25.aol.com>
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
The Extreme Reverend Tracy Lucas Swineford
would be if we were all nice to each other for a change,
As a costume contest participant, I agree. I came in totally pumped.
DESPITE seeing the man in the Darkness costume and the Rasta-Barney. I
figured I'd try and see how far I could get. But once Fred got her
coffin/table on the stage, that just blew me away. The right person
won for that one. Congrats, Fred. =)
--
The Extreme Reverend extre...@myflat.com
Tracy Lucas Swineford
PreShow M.C.-Midnight Insanity Art Theatre, Long Beach,CA
Rockycon
To Everyone at Rockycon:
First, I'd like to thank all the judges who kindly participated for this year's
Rockycon! These people are very special and hand picked by me. They are quite
simply the 'cream of the crop' when it comes to the whole Rocky Horror
experience and really know their stuff. They are also great human beings whom I
have the highest regard for as people. They are: Kristine Martin, Becky
Milanio, Bill Brennan, Gene Chiovari (the boy wonder!), Alicia 'Quad' Wallace,
Lisa Wood, and Bev Gerrish. They really do have what I would consider the
equivalent of a Master's Degree in Rocky Horror. (or docterate!) They also
have knowlege that comes from many years of experience. I totally trust and
accept any decisions they make because I know that they are fair- or I would
not be using them as judges in the first place. There are also other people
out there throughout the country whom I would use as judges in a second, but
the panel was at 7 this year, when it used to be at just 3. Ruth Fink-Winter,
Charley Brown and Marilynn Hendrie are a few of the people I would love to use
in the future, plus others from many other places. Some people I have asked to
judge declined because they still want to compete, which I totally understand.
But please try to forget this business of judges judging and favoring their own
cast members. That's nothing. Some of these judges have to pass over their own
girlfriends & boyfriends, and best friends in these contests, but I watch them
do it just the same, and I applaud them for it, for that is hard to do and
takes character. Be assured that many of the people who enter these contests
are very new to the judges as well. Honestly, these judges could care less
where the contestants are from. When they are in the heat of judging, that is
the last thing they are thinking about. They are way too busy looking at
costume details- which can be head-spinning at the time. Some of the decisions
are easy, but most are hard, and some are full-tilt hair spliting! I've been a
judge as well, and was also one at the 20th Anniv. at the Roxy, so I know how
they feel. The magic of these contests is that nobody has any idea who will end
up winning in the end. Not me, not you, and not even them until they, as a
collected group, make a decision. I find it simply electric to watch the
process. That's why we video taped it. I watched it again this evening and
my congratulations go out to all the winners and each person who entered. You
were all terrific. Granted, it is not easy to win at Rockycon. This I think
we can all agree on. Each year we try to change for the best. Having 4
winners per catagory this year was something new I thought I'd try. This way
more hard working contestants could get recognition!.
I've been a contestant and have won before, but I've also lost, too! The 2nd
convention I ever went to I just knew I would win as Janet. I mean I could
really tell. (There were like 3 others, and I had the dress, belt, sweater,
purse, barrettes, shoes, Plain Dealer, ring, necklace, gum in my mouth, Hershey
Bar, etc....) My boyfriend, who did Riff Raff, and I, thought it would add more
to the competion if he jumped up on stage and tried to take off my dress. It
sounded like a funny idea at the time and I planned be real "Janet-like", etc
and just smack him away. But he completely took off my dress and sweater,
grabbed my purse from me, and dashed away with them down the aisle before the
judges could even see it, and he was out of the room- not realizing what he
had done. I called out to him to come back but he couldn't hear because people
were laughing. So I was standing there without my costume and of couse did not
win. Later I was told by the judge that had I had those things on I would have
won. That is costume contest hell and I know it well. The very same Riff Raff
who did that showed up at the Toga Ball this past weekend to my amazement! He
was the one dressed as a Roman soldier all decked out in metal work and I had
not seen him in like 14 years! We laughed all night about "the old days".
Thank you, every one of you for attending and creating great new memories. I
got to see old friends and meet many new ones. Thanks go to all who helped out
and to the great tech people of Midnight Insanity who were so very, very nice!
The talent was extraordinary this time around and everyone was just so
fantastic! I look forward to doing Rockycon 2001. Let's be good to each
other. Have a Happy Halloween!
Much love, Megan Tabor
MoogGeek
Thanks for clarifying the circumstances the judges were under for the Toga
contest. I wasnt intending to insult any judges or entrants, but disagreeing
with the results. I understand things don't always run the best way they could,
and for that im sorry. for the Judges who end up looking like the bad guy, and
the contestants that don't get what they deserve. Maybe a suggestion to anyone
else planning a con: if you want to have a theme, thats rad (i loved the toga
party) but if youre going to have a contest, plan it just as well as the other
events, because it could be just as or more important to some people as the
regular costume contest or something else. If you dont have the commitment or
means to make one contest as important as the other, then just dont bother, it
just avoids potential conflicts.
As for the nudity, hell YEAH it takes guts to prance around half nekkid, but at
the risk of sounding like a broken record, it wasnt a nudity contest.
and finally, i cant recall saying anything about the costume contest in
annehiem, let alone bitching about it, at least not on the newsgroup. i didnt
even have this AOL account until the October AFTER..... the only complaint
from our cast about MIs con was the whole Pre-Show fiasco, and i will NOT go
there again.. bah, no sense digging up old dirt.
Sorry if i sounded a bit hostile with my posts, but i was annoyed. but that
doesnt mean im going to hold onto a grudge forever. Now, id just like to offer
my opinion and any constructive criticism.
Its really sort of sad that the majority of the con posts have been all about
the costume contests... come on guys!! wheres the reviews?!? wheres all the
stories for the people who didnt go?? and most importantly, when are people
gonna start posting some Pics?!?!?! :D just a thought. ;)
and thats all i have to say (i think) on the costume thing. I wanted to get my
opinion out, but i may have gotten a bit harsh. im not backing out of my
opinion, but i do apologize if it came off the wrong way. dont think im
immature and hold anything against anybody personally, right now, im just
wishing it was closer to next Oct. ;)
Speaking of, hope to see everyone there!
XoXoX
*Lizz*
AJTTL's Most *Glittering* Groupie
Arthur Levesque
don't enter them and only entered this one (I was the male Columbia)
because a couple of my castmates talked me into it ("It'll be funny!")
I did have some major problems with the trivia contest though. The
one that made me walk away in disgust was Larry Viezel's list of five
artworks in the movie. Gene was so impressed that Larry cited "Study in
Grey" rather than "Whistler's Mother" that they both failed to remember
that the picture in Crim's book is not the original, but a parody with
Meatloaf dressed as Mama Whistler (the stained glass Atlas doesn't count,
either -- the correct list is American Gothic, Mona Lisa, Da Vinci's Last
Supper, Michelangelo's David, and the Cistine Chapel reproduction in the
pool)...
--
/\ Arthur Levesque 2A4W <*> b...@boog.orgASM =/\= http://boog.org __
\B\ack King of the Potato People <fnord> "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!" (oO)
\S\lash Member of a vast right-wing conspiracy (-O-) Urban Spaceman /||\
\/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable "I hate rainbows!"-EC
Arthur Levesque
Ruth>...I'd also like to add that a new division I would like to see in
Ruth>costume contests is "Best Cross-Gender Costume." I think it is
Ruth>harder to do a cross-gender costume, and this would be a nice way
Ruth>to recognize people who work so hard on their costumes that you're
Ruth>left wondering which chromosomes they have.
There was only one person there who's gender I was unsure of until he
spoke. He would have been the clear winner in my book.
Zenin <ze...@bawdycaste.org> replied:
Z>I like this idea. I wouldn't split it up much more then that though.
Z>Maybe just one category to group it all in, kind of like ST is
Z>normally done. -There just aren't enough x-gender contestants to cut
Z>the parts up.
But there probably ARE enough ST people to maybe expand that
grouping...
Larry Viezel
>
> >For Crim the crim that won was given the vicotry based off a prop- a
> >kick ass book, not costume. This crim wore a gray jacket, where as in
> >the movie it's a black crushed velvet that sometimes shines gray in
> >certain lights...other Crims had a much better jacket, but lacked the
> >quality in PROPs!
Okay, really quickly, congratulations to Julie on winning the costume
contest. Don't take away that moment of glory (woe be damned to the last
guy who did that to someone about a certain crim costume contest at a
certain aneheim convention, which IMNSHO this crim contest was as fair
as the People Court in comparison to that one). Quite contrary to poular
beleif it is gray, (I have seen black, navy blue, even green enter
contests, and the navy blue guy even WON!) Or at least it is gray-ish. If
you don't beleive me check this out :
http://nominex.com/rarerhps/19980202.jpg
I have about 20 or so photos of the criminologist in his cotume. The
jacket appears gray in all of them. Okay, maybe its just the coloring of
the photos. Fine, lets look at a black and white photo - even there the
jacket is GRAY! Oh... wait... um... I suppose it would have to be. But
lets just talk lighting. It is clear from the movie and from the photos
that the rest of the jacket is lighter in color than the lapelles which
are black . And if you lighten black it turns... you guessed it GRAY!
So lets recap:
Photo stills taken on set: Looks gray.
Light shinking on jacket in the movie: Looks gray.
Lapelles are darker: Light black = gray
Name of actor protraying crim in the movie: Charles GRAY!
Get over it people.
I beleive that the book is an integral part of the crim costume contest.
Its as integral to the character of Crim as Eddie's saxaphone, or Dr.
Scott's wheelchair. And I am not just saying that because my book is
better than Julies :P
I am slightly annoyed by the costume contest coming so early in the
evening. Had I known I wouln't have done that little austin powers skit
and I would have come in my crim costume. There was no time for me to get
off my Dr. Evil scar makeup, put on new makeup, and change costumes. Ah
well, it worked out for the best anyway. Julie is a terrific crim and she
deserved to win.
Sigh. In truth, I don't think that a single convention has ever gone by so
far since the newsgroups existance (except for maybe the washington DC
convention, the first convention advertised on this newsgroup) that
someone didn't bitch about something in the costume contest. Chalk it up.
The real fun in competing in the costume contest is being able to gloat
over one costume piece being better than someone elses or telling a story
where you found the perfect little thing. You know, sharing. Sure theres
the pride of taking home a trophy or whatever, but if I am not mistaken
pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
An interesting sidenote, an acronym for the seven deadly sins is SALs PAGE
http://www.rockyhorror.com is thus inherently sinful.
Larry.
*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&
& Larry Viezel - King Of the Bitter People * Equal ------- *
* Feel free to talk about me behind my back & to | &
& Check me out at http://nominex.com/larry * The ---+--- *
* Or visit http://nominex.com/rarerhps & Stars | &
& for rare photos from Rocky Horror * Endurance ---+ *
*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&
Zenin
: I did have some major problems with the trivia contest though. The
: artworks in the movie. Gene was so impressed that Larry cited "Study in
: Grey" rather than "Whistler's Mother" that they both failed to remember
: that the picture in Crim's book is not the original, but a parody with
: Meatloaf dressed as Mama Whistler (the stained glass Atlas doesn't count,
: either
Kenny from my cast always called it, "Whistler's Meatloaf". :-)
--
-Zenin (ze...@archive.rhps.org) Your Official ORGy sites!
Zenin
>snip<
: Zenin <ze...@bawdycaste.org> replied:
: Z>I like this idea. I wouldn't split it up much more then that though.
: Z>Maybe just one category to group it all in, kind of like ST is
: Z>normally done. -There just aren't enough x-gender contestants to cut
: Z>the parts up.
:
: But there probably ARE enough ST people to maybe expand that
: grouping...
They exist yes, but they don't all compete. I think we had about 6
this con, none of which where in the same costume (save for Mark
and Jamie, but they competed as a team anyway). -I was finishing my
second drink by that point so things got a little blurry... :-)
If we end up with 6 Cosmos at a con, I'm all in favor of splitting
them. I can't see splitting 6 or even 16 random ST costumes though.
Ruth had the idea to possibly split into best male/female, but that
has the gender problems we've talked about in another thread as well
as the fact that IMO a green Cosmo outfit and a green Nation outfit
are pretty much the same and should be judged against each other.
-Just like space Riff and space Magenta should always be a single
category.
Kate Pitroff
>From: icem...@aol.com (ICEMAN 435)
>Subject: Re: CONVENTION JUDGING BULLSHIT
>>Please enlighten us, I'd love to hear your "opinions".
>>
>ok...for starters, the trixie in the black outfit(the tiny girl) from Wild and
>Untamed Things should have done better than honorable mention......
Okay, I'll bite, why? What distinguished her as a "Trixie", more so than "A
Tiny Girl in a Black Outfit with a Whip"?
--kate
Brady Ferguson
>
> >ok...for starters, the trixie in the black outfit(the tiny girl) from Wild and
> >Untamed Things should have done better than honorable mention......
>
> Okay, I'll bite, why? What distinguished her as a "Trixie", more so than "A
> Tiny Girl in a Black Outfit with a Whip"?
>
> --kate
Well, she was pretty cute!
--
"More Drunk" Brady Ferguson
Asst Director/Webmaster/Brad/Crim
Barely Legal-Berkeley CA
http://www.barelylegal.org
RHFC1.2 V200@P1SY3 PB80+C1M1E1-D6W100+S2+L13Y2&&
C3B1W1S2 IW&+N+C-M1 MM1C3B4R10@V5@O+
D(PRINGS)+T0500 QNAKP3H3+ YA23GmH(5'9")
Kate Pitroff
>From: Brady Ferguson <bfer...@barelylegal.org>
>Subject: Re: CONVENTION JUDGING BULLSHIT
>Kate Pitroff wrote:
>>
>> >ok...for starters, the trixie in the black outfit(the tiny girl) from Wild and
>> >Untamed Things should have done better than honorable mention......
>>
>> Okay, I'll bite, why? What distinguished her as a "Trixie", more so than "A
>> Tiny Girl in a Black Outfit with a Whip"?
>>
>> --kate
>Well, she was pretty cute!
>--
>"More Drunk" Brady Ferguson
Brady, you're pretty cute, too...but even while you were stripping out of the
same dress I doubt I'd give you a vote for Trixie....
Well, maybe. :)
--kate
BMilanio
and Bill Brennan would like to say:
It dismays me to say that during the competition there were a few boos from the
rear of the crowd and after the competition a few people approached Bev Garrish
about her convention with dispariaging comments about some of the judges.
Please note that we the judges are up front and the people who boo'd were in
the middle or rear of the crowd. We see details that you do not, our vantage
point is a lot better.
And last, the judges of the costume contest are indeed picked for their
knowledge of costumes, years of experience and ability to be fair. Remember
the results are a majority opinion of the judges.
What does this all mean? This all means, that we are experienced and fair and
the best costumes did win and nobody likes a disgraceful loser.
Bill Brennan
Xkristine1
>Tiny Girl in a Black Outfit with a Whip"?
>
>--kate
Let's amend that to : "A Tiny Girl who Looks about 12 Years Old in a Black
Outfit with a Whip"
She was cute, granted, but I seriously felt I should have averted my eyes
becuase she looked *painfully* young. Like the kind of young (and mostly naked)
that gets casts into trouble. I have no idea what her true age is, but I'd be
surprised if it was legal for us to see that much of her.
-Kristine
PS-- this has nothing to do with why she didn't win. Others have more than
covered that.
The Fixxer
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
Fnordian
>Outfit with a Whip"
Of course, some people go for that kinky shit. <grin> *Sommmmme* people like
younger girls. <cough> You know who you are.
>I have no idea what her true age is, but I'd be
>surprised if it was legal for us to see that much of her.
Someone from the outskirts of the room was yelling, "She's legal! She's
legal!" Scary, isn't it?
--
Lila...who plays the part of an audience member...
"Biologically speaking, if something bites you, it's probably female."
RHFC1.2 V28A+!M+>PS1BY1997L6{3s} P>J>C>M>R>O{T} C1 IW&&N+!C MAC2B2R6T6V2O
QNA+R{LittleSister} YBp5G{f}H{5'5"}L{SFArea,CA}S{b}{k}
Zenin
: Let's amend that to : "A Tiny Girl who Looks about 12 Years Old in a Black
: Outfit with a Whip"
: She was cute, granted, but I seriously felt I should have averted my eyes
: becuase she looked *painfully* young. Like the kind of young (and mostly naked)
: that gets casts into trouble.
Well, if you're old enough to bleed, you're...
Ok, I'm stopping myself right there before I get slapped any harder
then I'm already likely to be!
: I have no idea what her true age is, but I'd be
: surprised if it was legal for us to see that much of her.
Age of consent in Nevada is 16. Almost makes me want to move
out there...almost. -See my RHFC for details. :-)
PriscellaQ
>would have won
And since all 35 of the Magenta's on the stage looked alike... this has what
significance to the price of toasters?
This whole arguement, although unavoidable, is totally pointless, what's done
is done. There will be another contest in 6 months... At least at these cons,
the jusdges have some idea what the costumes are supposed to look like. At the
big cons (15th, 20th...) the end judging is by the ACTUAL ACTORS (20th had the
prelims by actually cast people). Do you really think that Pat Quinn after a
case of Budweiser knows who's costume is better than the other? I think not.
Or let's take a personal example... the 15th Ann. Marcia Grey won because
Barry Bostwick recognized her as Porn Queen Shana McColough (someday I'll
learn to spell it correctly) *AND* she decided to check if he still had his
tonsils... not a very Janet-like act AND her costume wasn't the best... it's
just the way it is!
Get over it and move on. When you hold a con of your own, you can be the soul
judge...
Just my 67cents...
Jaimie
Fnordian
> out there...almost. -See my RHFC for details. :-)
<snip>
>S{f>ba12^H7k}W=
Zenin, I love the fact that you researched this. <smirk>
Why not just moved to Kentucky or wherever it is that the ages of consent are
*painfully* low...(I know it's 12 in *some* state....)
But hey, I finally fit into someone's age brackets. <chuckle>
Camprocker
is the best I have ever seen! You also mentioned displeasure with both the
Magenta and Brad winners. Those two happen to be Bridgid, the sweetest person
on Earth with a costume to die for, and Jeff Oriel whose costume is just about
flawless. I have seen both of these costumes close up and have never found any
bit of fault with them. Lay off.
Tara....The good little girl of Rocky.
Janet of Under Sedation, Voyeursitic Intention and Cosmic Light
http://members.aol.com/camprocker/index.html
Always remember not to judge, especially the guy in fishnets.
SkyBoy UZ
>surprised if it was legal for us to see that much of her.
>PS-- this has nothing to do with why she didn't win. Others have more than
>covered that.
Hey Kristine-
you're right about the age thing. She was originally gonna be the understudy
Trixie at sins, but marylin and theatre management had a problem cause of her
"look". it's absolutely understandable. in her defense though, her outfit was
better than i recall number three being, who was as far from
Ciggarette/Usherette girl as little heidi.
Bernie
Sins O' the Flesh(Nuart Theatre_LA)
SkyBoy UZ
>Someone from the outskirts of the room was yelling, "She's legal! She's
>legal!" Scary, isn't it?
>
that was me-
I yelled"trust me she's legal!!! i've seen the ID!!!"
:-)
SkyBoy UZ
>flawless.
Tara-
i'm a Brad at Nuart in LA, and one thing i was disappointed with(even though i
must say Jeff had a kick ass costume) is that every brad i saw had XMas plaid
including green on their bow tie's and cumberbunds, and no one i saw had
anything near the pattern either, correct me if i'm wrong about jeff's plaid,
but why is this? i would think with everything else so kick ass including the
red silk coat lining and the ring box, that both jeff and dan would have had a
more similar pattern and color to the movie...ah well...
i'm not as close to perfection as they are- just thought i'd nit pick for a
sec, i'll step down off my soapbox now.
Hersheycj
in fact a great person. She is Cast Trixie at Wild and Untamed Things and a
damn good one at that. In my opinion, she has much better trixie outfits that
she bought specifically for her part, and she has a much beeter performance
than most trixies I ve seen in the long haul. Give her a little credit. I hope
she doesn't mind me posting this but here is her bio, a very worthwhile one to
checkout at that.
http://www.pacificnet.net/~dlevack/heidi.html
The one thing I hate, but unfortunately its the game of life, is judging on a
first impression, and a one minute one at that.
Hershey kisses,
Christa
Ive said my peace.
~"It is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and occupation, that gives
happiness." - Thomas Jefferson
ICQ #1589795
Would you like a Hershey Kiss?? Or how about a Hug??? C'mon, I know you want
one...
Scott Hlavacek
to see a certain part of a costume, such as the judges asked to see thier
Bra's, then how can they award first place to the Magenta with a wrong
colored Bra, when 3rd place and 2nd place both had the right bra and garter
along with everything else, the magenta had a gray Bra, not even close, and
how the Legend Character doesn't win will bogle my mind, yes the eddie in
the coffin was a original and clever costume, but it was still plastic wrap
over some cardboard, and don't you think he should have been in the eddie
character since that was who he was.
Just my thoughts, on the judging joke.
Scott Hlavacek
ICEMAN 435 wrote in message <19981012110401...@ng71.aol.com>...
>
>
>I'd like to give a big fat FUCK YOU shout out to the judges in the costume
>contest. I believe that myself along with just about the entire convention
>could feel the bias in the air. Several of the people that won had several
>things wrong with their costumes that other people did not yet still placed
>higher. First off, the Frank contest was an absolute joke. Easily there
were
>two franks better than the one who won for the dinner scene outfit. For
Crim
>the crim that won was given the vicotry based off a prop- a kick ass book,
not
>costume. This crim wore a gray jacket, where as in the movie it's a black
>crushed velvet that sometimes shines gray in certain lights...other Crims
had a
>much better jacket, but lacked the quality in PROPs! There were others that
i
>thought were off including Magenta, Eddie and Brad, but i'll save my gripe
for
>now. I also think that the bias isn't being hidden very well when judges
get up
>to hug their own cast members who just took first in one of the categories.
>C'mon...if you're gonna dick us over at least try and do it without getting
>caught!
>I just think it's sad that people were sooo insecure about the quality of
their
>casts that they felt the need to "give" away some of the awards to their
own
>cast memebers to try and get noticed.....
>
>ah well i guess human pride is just too much of a beast to handle.
>
>
>Tom Kizansky
Scott Hlavacek
OK this is my suggestion to any future costume contests with JUDGES. Give
them a piece of paper and say there are 10 Magenta's in the costume contest,
have them number a paper like this
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
And according to the order they fell simply rate the contestents from 1 to
10 with one being the best then take all the judges sheets and the contest #
with the least score Wins, and in case of a tie then the judges discuss on
the tie, not everything.
Just a suggestion from me to the next convention.
Scott
Richard Souza
Sep. 06 @ Kansas City Chiefs L 08-28
Sep. 13 NEW YORK GIANTS W 20-17
Sep. 20 DENVER BRONCOS L 17-34
Sep. 27 @ Dallas Cowboys W-13-12
Oct. 04 @ Arizona Cardinals w 23-20
Oct. 11 SAN DIEGO CHARGERS
Oct. 18 B Y E
Oct. 25 CINCINNATI BENGALS
Nov. 01 @ Seattle Seahawks
Nov. 08 @ Baltimore Ravens
Nov. 15 SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
Nov. 22 @ Denver Broncos
Nov. 29 WASHINGTON REDSKINS
Dec. 06 MIAMI DOLPHINS
Dec. 13 @ Buffalo Bills
Dec. 20 @ San Diego Chargers
Dec. 26 KANSAS CITY CHIEFS
BMilanio
>colored Bra,
As a costume contest judge let me just say that the Magenta that won DID have a
black bra on (the correct color).
Becky
Larry Viezel
While I agree that Julie has a fantastic costume, I won't go so far as to
say it is the best I have ever seen. Very damn close though.
Jeff had a one of the best brad costumes I had ever seen, but, I don't
know, why does everyone enter the bead contest in the tuxedo costume?
And Brigid, okay, yes she indeed was a very sweet person and did have a
costume to die for.
Larry.
*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&
Zenin
: > Age of consent in Nevada is 16. Almost makes me want to move
: > out there...almost. -See my RHFC for details. :-)
: <snip>
:
: Why not just moved to Kentucky or wherever it is that the ages of consent are
: *painfully* low...(I know it's 12 in *some* state....)
Kentucky is 16. Currently, no state in the union is
below 14:
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
: But hey, I finally fit into someone's age brackets. <chuckle>
Baby, you've *always* fit into my age bracket!
Aleka R
>over some cardboard, and don't you think he should have been in the eddie
>character since that was who he was.
I believe you meant- "she".
Xkristine1
>to see a certain part of a costume, such as the judges asked to see thier
>Bra's, then how can they award first place to the Magenta with a wrong
>colored Bra, when 3rd place and 2nd place both had the right bra and garter
>along with everything else, the magenta had a gray Bra, not even close
.... I agree with you there. My vote, as a judge, reflected that. But as I've
said, in judging, majority rules, and I can live with that.
>how the Legend Character doesn't win will bogle my mind, yes the eddie in
>the coffin was a original and clever costume, but it was still plastic wrap
>over some cardboard, and don't you think he should have been in the eddie
out to the judges in the
If you will recall, the contest for that was for "creative Rocky costumes". The
Legend guy was fabulous looking, but it was not even Rocky related. He did,
however place second. Not bad at all. He would have won if not for the dead
Eddie coming to stage.
-Kristine
Xkristine1
>10 with one being the best then take all the judges sheets and the contest #
>with the least score Wins, and in case of a tie then the judges discuss on
>the tie, not everything.
Scott-- This is similar to what we did at MI's last convention. No one was
happy with the results there either.
I think what it jsut comes down to is that we all have different opinions.
I mean, it's great and all if someone has "Denton High" on their ring, but does
that really matter if they can't pass scrutinization from a distance?
And as I've said before, if the judges can't agree on who looks better, what
does that say for the rest of the Rocky community as a whole? People need to
just get over it and not take itthis seriously.
Gees, and people have gotten on my case for years about taking RHPS to
seriously.
BTW-- The contests that everyone often thinks are the *least* fair are the ones
judged by the stars themselves. It's all a difference of opinion, ;and no one
can rid the world of that. No one should try.
-Kristine
Zenin
>snip<
: If you will recall, the contest for that was for "creative Rocky costumes". The
: Legend guy was fabulous looking, but it was not even Rocky related. He did,
: however place second. Not bad at all. He would have won if not for the dead
: Eddie coming to stage.
: -Kristine
Well, he was indirectly related, as Tim Curry played in Legend.
But cardboard and plastic wrap or not, I thought the dead Eddie
was great myself, and of course far more closely related to Rocky.
Mr. wRight
Aleka R wrote in message <19981014143633...@ng85.aol.com>...
>>but it was still plastic wrap
>>over some cardboard, and don't you think he should have been in the eddie
>
>I believe you meant- "she".
and I would like to add that Fred did a wonderful job staying in character
as a DEAD eddie. she had the pose perfect. the glassy blank stare. all
around fabou. and p.s. to Fred if you read this... next time try and reach
me I would love to help you look even more gruesome next time.
Cheyenne "Seattle Eddie" Wright
****************************************************
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs,
even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those
poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much,
because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory
nor defeat.
- Theodore Roosevelt
****************************************************
MRATTUDE
Because it is the closest pattern he could find. I'm not sure but I think that
trying to find the plaid pattern from the movie is no longer available. I have
the cumberbun from long ago that actually has the correct pattern and colors.
Unfortunately I no longer have the bow-tie. =( I have not been able to find
that pattern anywhere.
As for Brads entering in the Wedding outfit. Beats me. I think there should
be some with the regular Brad clothing too, al lthe way to the underwear.
Marc Berman " The National Jew of Rocky Horror"
(director) Cosmic Light San Mateo, CA
MrAt...@aol.com
Controller of the RHPS Jew faction on the West Coast
http://www.the-wall.net/~monkey/rhps/
sha...@kincyb.com
thef...@aol.com (The Fixxer) wrote:
>The tiny girl (Trixie) is in fact 18 and from the Woodland Hills cast.
>
And to further clarify this information, she just turned 19 in September.
================================SIG-FILE================================
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"Shadez MacKenzie" (sha...@kincyb.com)
Riff Raff for Midnight Insanity at the Art Theatre of Long Beach, CA.
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RiFF4711
>Because it is the closest pattern he could find. I'm not sure but I think
>that
>trying to find the plaid pattern from the movie is no longer available.
Actually, the pattern for the cumberbund and the bowtie are two different
plaids.
--
Mark B. --- The Roaming RiFF RaFF
-The preceeding announcement has been paid for by the [nWo] New World Order-
"Respect My Authoritaaaaiii" - Eric Cartman
Fred Olderr
1; that plastic wrap that you say, is VINYL
2; yes it was cardboard, in fact a cardboard coffin that they sell
during this month
3; i didn't enter as eddie,because i didn't think it would be fair, to
the other eddie's and it was a original creative idea, ( did u ever
think of making it )
4; the legened guy, ( darkness ) bought his costume, he might of made
his hoves but he bought the other part
5; you must be new to RHPS, because i'm a WOMAN, every1 knows that
6; the guy that did the brad statue, was going to enter in the creative
part also, but when he saw darkness, he entered in brad
anything else?
fred
Ruth Fink-Winter or Walter S. Barsell
> >And according to the order they fell simply rate the contestents from 1 to
> >10 with one being the best then take all the judges sheets and the contest #
> >with the least score Wins, and in case of a tie then the judges discuss on
> >the tie, not everything.
Yeek! No! As one of the judges at that con, it made it worse...you
have to actually rank all 15 Columbias instead of just concentrating on
the best 3 or 4. And then the contestants move and you aren't sure of
their number (this problem could be solved by giving them number cards
to hold, I suppose).
I much prefer a system where the judges consult each other...that way if
one judge knows a detail and another one doesn't, the knowledge is
shared. This happened at NYC; one judge would say "gee, I like #3" and
another would say "did you notice that that costume doesn't have [some
detail]" and I think it made things much fairer.
If you are looking for judges, I think it is a good idea to have people
on the panel who are known for different characters; many good judges
will know just about everybody, but if I have Gene Chiovari as a judge
(who really knows his Frank) and Becky Milanio (who knows her Columbia)
I can be sure they will enlighten the other judges if some contestant is
missing some obscure but important detail of either of those costumes.
Ruth Fink-Winter
--
Wally's Warped Archives |Crazed Imaginations:a RHPS fanzine
http://www.wwa.com/~wbarsell |$30 for 12 issues in the US
--------------------------------|Crazed Imaginations/PO Box 1548
|Sauk Village, IL/60412
Fred Olderr
Jeremy Moran
>>and cant cut and paste
Guess what, Fred... you can! use the "find" feature to find the word
you want to start highlighting, then highlight what you want copied.
Hit cmd+c to copy, then cmd+x to delete or cmd+v to paste.
It's easy and it's fun!
This has been a public service announcement from your favorite Usenet
WebTV Apologist. We now return you to your regularly scheduled
rantings.
"When the President sacrifice's the entire country for a girl I even
would have turned down in high school, *that was a stupid thing!*" -
Mick Foley, aka Mankind
The Fixxer
>Subject: Re: CONVENTION JUDGING BULLSHIT
>From: bmil...@aol.com (BMilanio)
>Date: 10/12/98 7:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <19981012223457...@ng149.aol.com>
>
>
>and Bill Brennan would like to say:
>
>It dismays me to say that during the competition there were a few boos from
>the
>rear of the crowd and after the competition a few people approached Bev
>Garrish
>about her convention with dispariaging comments about some of the judges.
>
>Please note that we the judges are up front and the people who boo'd were in
>the middle or rear of the crowd. We see details that you do not, our vantage
>point is a lot better.
>
>And last, the judges of the costume contest are indeed picked for their
>knowledge of costumes, years of experience and ability to be fair. Remember
>the results are a majority opinion of the judges.
>
>What does this all mean? This all means, that we are experienced and fair
>and
>the best costumes did win and nobody likes a disgraceful loser.
>
>Bill Brennan
>
>
>
Mark Tomaino
www.midnightinsanity.com
www.intouchdating.com
Fnordian
Thank goodness it didn't actually get him in the eye...that could have blinded
the eye it hit. It came far too close.....
DR. SCOTT
Barsell" <wbar...@wwa.com> wrote:
>Scott Labreque suggested:
>> >And according to the order they fell simply rate the contestents from 1 to
>> >10 with one being the best then take all the judges sheets and the contest #
>> >with the least score Wins, and in case of a tie then the judges discuss on
>> >the tie, not everything.
EEK is right Ruth, you are misquoting someone ELSE's comment :) No
way in hell I woulda said that...
I think some of these threads are beoming a wee bit fragmented, and
people who aren't quoting properly, then being quoted themselves later
are having quotes attributed to them that they did not make.
DR. SCOTT
Fred. I've known yer gender how many YEARS now?
I think people need to seriously track a thread before jumping on
someone.
Next time quote the original message so we can at least try to figure
who the hell it was that sent the message you're replying to
Xkristine1
>plaids.
Damn Mark.. you beat me to it. I was just about to say that :-)
Kristine
Xkristine1
>As for the tiny girl in a black dress, her name is Heidi. she is almost 19
>and
>in fact a great person.
Please do not misunderstand. No one was making a comment about her personality.
I'm sure she is a lovely person. And she is certainly attractive; no one is
arguing this. We were merely defending the fact that she did not place higher
in the contest.
I myself did a striptease Trixie for many years, and would have worn outfits
similar to the one she wore. HOWEVER if I were to compete in a contest (which I
do not think I ever did as Trixie) I would have stuck closer to the usherette
theme. Otherwise the judges would be grading on nothing but looks.
When I did Trixie at the Panteges Theater for the 20th Convention in LA, I did
very much the cigarette girl/usherette theme (for Sci/fiction), and did the
strip tease out of it at the end (reprise). My concession to what the rest of
the RHPS community wants to see in a Trixie.
Please don't try to make this sound like anyone is attacking her personally.
The personwho didn't like the results of the contest is the one bringing this
out.
-Kristine
Camprocker
>must say Jeff had a kick ass costume) is that every brad i saw had XMas plaid
>including green on their bow tie's and cumberbunds, and no one i saw had
>anything near the pattern either, correct me if i'm wrong about jeff's plaid,
>but why is this? i would think with everything else so kick ass including the
>red silk coat lining and the ring box, that both jeff and dan would have had
>a
>more similar pattern and color to the movie...ah well...
>
>i'm not as close to perfection as they are- just thought i'd nit pick for a
>sec, i'll step down off my soapbox now.
>
>
I guess I'm judging from the standpoint of a Janet that performs usually with a
Brad that doesn't even wear a bow tie. Nit picking is fine. I do it all the
time even though I don't really have a right. My wedding scene suit is short
sleeved.
Larry Viezel
> one that made me walk away in disgust was Larry Viezel's list of five
> artworks in the movie. Gene was so impressed that Larry cited "Study in
> Grey" rather than "Whistler's Mother" that they both failed to remember
> that the picture in Crim's book is not the original, but a parody with
> Meatloaf dressed as Mama Whistler (the stained glass Atlas doesn't count,
> either -- the correct list is American Gothic, Mona Lisa, Da Vinci's Last
> Supper, Michelangelo's David, and the Cistine Chapel reproduction in the
> pool)...
Actually it was Bill who judged that question. And I asked him, half
expecing a no "If I say Whistlers _Meatloaf_ does it count" And Atlas
counts just as much even if it is a stained glass window. Its an
interpretation of the statue. All the works of art you mentioned are
reproductions and interpretations (i.e. Creation of man is not flat and on
the bottom of a pool.) and not originals (obviously). No need to discount
Atlas. Regardless, I could probably have named a bunch more because this
was one of the Rocky Trivia questions I ask people in diners at 4 in the
morning.
Incidentally you left out Venus di Milo in the dinner room. As well as the
discus thrower in the lab.
But thank you for noticing.
> --
> /\ Arthur Levesque 2A4W <*> b...@boog.orgASM =/\= http://boog.org __
> \B\ack King of the Potato People <fnord> "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!" (oO)
> \S\lash Member of a vast right-wing conspiracy (-O-) Urban Spaceman /||\
> \/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable "I hate rainbows!"-EC
RHPSJester
uptight! She even ripped her I.D. out of her purse just to prove it to me!
Jason
Dan Levack
about her age because she deals with it all the time.
Dan Levack
Cast Producer
Wild & Untamed Things
Topanga Theatre - Woodland Hills, Ca
http://home.earthlink.net/~dlevack1
RHFool
>*painfully* low...(I know it's 12 in *some* state....)
That would be New Mexico (and no I have NO idea as to why I know that!!)
Jenn
Jenn Conner @--->-
Cast of Divine Decadence
Las Vegas, Nevada
http://members.aol.com/decadence7
Hersheycj
>personality.
>Please don't try to make this sound like anyone is attacking her personally.
Oh hey Kristine, it's cool :) I never meant to imply that I thought you were
judging her on personality. I just thought, since she was getting a lot of
bandwidth, you guys would want to know a bit about her. :) I think the worst
thing people can do is turn things like fun debate into something personal. It
was nice meeting you at con.
Hershey kisses,
Christa
~"It is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and occupation, that gives
happiness." - Thomas Jefferson
ICQ #1589795
Would you like a Hershey Kiss?? Or how about a Hug??? C'mon, I know you want
one...
Scott Hlavacek
months to make. and over 2 hours to put on, and be happy you played such a
good Eddie I thought you were a HE.
--
Scott Hlavacek
Fred Olderr wrote in message
<27625-36...@newsd-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Red Di516
whereas some of us will look our age or worse, and I'm starting to see and feel
those tiny tragedies. So she should be happy when somebody wonders if she's
"legal" or not. Lucky dog!! Although in Vegas I got carded for gambling and
even getting change and boy did it just feel terrific.
Red Di516
judging, much like the Miss America pagent is judged, but Scott Hlavacek from
NYC (old school cast). and I would have to agree, only becausethen and only
then no one can accuse anyone of being truly biased, if it's done via points
you add them up and **poof** there's the answer. No discussin, no poisoning
judges the chance of biased scoring or cheating is minimalized. Sometimes I
tend to think that some opinions are more strongly heard thru group discussion
then others and some judges may not want to argue over whether or not there's a
red bow on magenta's garter (promotional shot) or not. But a good point I will
make is that if you're going to ask to see specific pieces of someone's
costume, there's a problem, that to you they all look so good you need to
narrow the gap as much as possible, so once you see who has those pieces, you
should be able to discard the rest and judge from there, not ask for a bra,
etc. and then chose some who's bra was not the appropriate style or color.
And as far as Fred is concerned, I would have to agree that you're costume was
very imaginative, and convincing, many people mistook you for a guy (you should
be grateful), but I would have to say that I thought the Darkness costume was
by far the best. Simply because, Andy went out of the BOX to see other movies
with stars fromone of his favorite movies, do you know how many times I had to
answer the question "now who's he supposed to be"? Oh him that's Tim Curry, no
it's not, uh yeah it is, go see another movie at least once in a while (that's
the name of a song isn't it. And for the statue Brad, I was impressed by his
creativity and his imagination, so if he had been in the creative costume
category, I'm very sure he would have beat you for first place, because that's
something I've never seen, whereas I've seen coffins for Eddie (dinner tables)
and Time warp.
And as for the judges many of them have been around the world and back, so
maybe we need better categories within the category, like 1&2 place honorable
mention and most creative, then again with that idea I'm probably opening up a
whole new can of worms, so I'll leave it on that note, and if I know RHPS
people you'll be on this opinion like white on rice. So adieu.
PS I'm NYC cast old school to and boy don't ya feel old after attending to many
of these thing!?!? Happy Holiday, my little freaks!!!
Red Di516
count for something as well, not just who looks like a star...Bravo, damn good
job!!
Red Di516
and how some questions were just too "hard" so they were skipped in favor of an
easier one. I thought, like in Jepardy, after you get past the first round the
questions just get harder and may the best "man" win. I know that's my
experience. BTW I thought you were a great Columbia. I have seen some guys do
it and at least you had some personality and tried to have fun with it, and not
act like stiff movie-screen cardboard, cause if I wanted to see Nell, I'd go to
her restaurant or just watch the movie. Now if we could only find the perfect
Eddie for you....Hey Fred...Ha Ha
Red Di516
convincing act and one person incorrectly identifies them. I mean She was
dressed as Eddie so one might think she was a he. And do you know how many
Frank's I know who are she's are ALWAYS mistaken for he's so Fred and all
should feel highly complemented, also note the fact that not everyone was face
to face and could see the difference. And not all of our reputations preceed
us.
Red Di516
to "create" your costume? Well that's what Andy did, and the box was more of a
prop than a costume, if you want to go and be so very technical and picky. Not
that I am denying your imaginative and terrific costume, just as when you dress
as Space Riff, your costumes are great. So let me be the first to say I am not
denying you your win, but if the Brasd moved into the Brad category I think you
should have moved to the Eddie category, where I believe you would have won as
well. Whereas, Darkness was dressed all in his glory as a character played by
Time Curry (often referred to as God, not mine thought, I'm my own God). Since
the category was creative costumes I thought the costumes would be reflected
as such.
Once more just my opinion, that and a buck fifty gets you a ride on our
(giggle) lovely mass transit system.
Ciao babies!!
RiFF4711
>materials
>to "create" your costume?
Look, I'm tired of reading your posts about Fred and the costume contest etc
etc etc. The fact of the matter is that the judges made their decision for what
they felt was the most creative costume. To be honest with you, everyone around
me said that it the wiiners should be the way they were picked, simply because
Fred picked a creative costume which ties in directly with Rocky Horror. While
Darkness is by far a kick ass character, and the costume was incredible, I
still feel that Fred won the contest based on its parameters of most creative.
I believe that the Most Creative is tied directly in with Rocky Horror, as it
gives people a chance to do their interpretations of the costumes without being
accurate. It is a great category (I love it when the Japanese casts and other
casts of the world come in and compete because they have some much personality
put into it...EX. The columbia from Transexual Glamour). Fred put her costume
together, so did Andy. The fact is that the costume that won is Fred, so lets
quit the crying and get on with things. BTW, Fred, congratulations on
winning...it was most deserved. Andy...wonderful costume...well worth all the
time put into it.
Oh well, just tired of this becoming a personal thing on the NG.
Congratulations to all those who won the costume contest...
And for the record, Bridget has a wonderful Magenta outfit, and I think you
should take a look at her bra again (I know I'd love to... :) ).
Zenin
>snip<
: 4; the legened guy, ( darkness ) bought his costume, he might of made
: his hoves but he bought the other part
Even if he had made it from scratch I personally wouldn't have picked
him in this particular event if I was judging.
The category was "Most Creative". Key word there being, "creative".
What's so "creative" or original about doing an exact copy of a
character from a movie? I admit the Legend outfit was hella cool,
but it wasn't that creative.
Fred, you kick ass. Please don't let anyone rain on your parade.
--
-Zenin (ze...@archive.rhps.org) Your Official ORGy sites!
The Bawdy Caste (Fremont, CA) www.bawdycaste.org
Barely Legal (Berzerkly, CA) www.barelylegal.org
Rocky Horror Archive (Earth) www.archive.rhps.org
RHFC1.1 V!M!P1S2RBL24Y1980 P*B-R+20@H-D+100@W+200@T+5@P?L15@Y1990&1@(7@)!1
C8@W3@P@& IF&-W&&-N+M1C-! MA2{RO,PQ}M{PQ}C3B15@R15@V1O+++ D?-K1S@C0!O{IS}T5@
QNA+&+!K+!PW>&H1+! YA25+>16G{m}H{5'7"}L{CA,USA}S{f>ba12^H7k}W=
The Extreme Reverend Tracy Lucas Swineford
would be if we were all nice to each other for a change,
redd...@aol.com (Red Di516) had the temerity to say:
Actually, I think what was most shocking ( at least to those of us
whom weren't in NY) was that Fred had HAIR. I know it tripped me up. I
didn't know it was her until they announced she had won. =)
BTW, just for something new about all the bitching about the contest,
I'd like to add this: I lost. I lost by a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG amount.
=)
--
The Extreme Reverend extre...@myflat.com
Tracy Lucas Swineford
PreShow M.C.-Midnight Insanity Art Theatre, Long Beach,CA
"We have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is your own
problem."
STILL your RockyCon Limbo Champion [2-0! Who's Next?]
Midnight Insanity Attitude- http://www.midnightinsanity.com - Sign the
Freak Book!
Red Di516
> character from a
>movie?
Hmm, now isn't that an ironic quote, same exact costume from a movie...where
have I heard tha one before???!?!? As for raining on anyone's parade, one more
time for the slow people I did like Fred's costume, I just liked Andy's better
and thought that the Eddie should have been in woth the Eddie's like the Brad
(statue), Excuuuuuuuse me for voicing my opinion like the other 200 or so who
immediately left the morning after the Con and went online, as soon as
possible. I thought this was an open forum?!?!
Fnordian
You were right...you're allowed to be here, and nobody said, "Shut up you,
you're not welcome here, so take your posts and shove them." All that happened
was that someone disagreed with you and was challenging your opinion...and it
*is* just that, an open forum, so if you're going to post something, it's other
people's right to disagree or even bash what you said if they want to.
Xkristine1
You know, it gets hard to follow these things (maybe it's just me and/or AOL)
when you do not quote what you are referring to...
I would've loved to understand what you are talking about :-(
Thanks :-)
Kristine
(you know, one of the judges whose decisions who disagree so heartily with. :-)
McCays
there were about 500 new messages!Once I`d got over the shock and started to
read them I couldn`t believe how many were about the costume contest.Over
100 I think!Well,you may as well throw my opinion in too:STOP THE COSTUME
CONTESTS!!!
Reasons for this:
1)Nobody ever agrees that the people who won deserved to win.The bad feeling
that goes with this ensures that everyone is miserable,including the people
who won.
2)It is impossible to decide who has the best costume,especially in that
amount of time.Therefore the best costume is unlikely to win.
3)The contest is not just judged on costume.It`s discrimination to let
someone win because their face is the most like Pat Quinn`s or
something.It`s a costume contest,not a clone contest!
4)Most entrants have worked extremely hard on their costumes and don`t
deserve to lose to someone with an extra couple of sequins on their coat or
something.It makes everyone feel either inferior or mad.
5)The contest is too stressful for everyone concerned,from the judges to the
competitors to the people on the newsgroup.
If you can`t let the contest be a bit of fun instead of a huge stressful
issue that ruins the whole con for you,don`t enter!!!Don`t watch!!!Just stay
away and don`t stress about it.Let the people who enjoy these things get on
with it and get on with their lives instead on analysing it for the rest of
yours!!!
No offence meant,but I think that over 100 posts about a tiny part of the
con is a waste of bandwidth.I know I`m just making it worse by adding to it
but I`m exhausted from reading them all and my little post will hardly make
a dent on the huge mass of posts you`ll have downloaded today!
Just a thought...
PriscellaQ
>are
>: *painfully* low...(I know it's 12 in *some* state....)
>
> below 14:
I see a new trivia contest category forming...
Jaimie