how to realign post vise jaws?
Cathy Morgan
admonition to use spacers in my post vise when I clamped a
bar in only one end of it. It took a lot of years for my
bad habit to get the jaws misaligned, but now I do need to
fix them. In other words, when the jaws are brought
together, one protrudes beyond the other.
Does anyone know how to repair this? Failing that, can
anyone direct me to a manual on how to repair post vises?
TIA
Ernie Leimkuhler
I repaired a small heavily abused post vise by bevelling all the edges of the existing jaws.
I then cut 2 piece of 1/4" steel to act as new pads for the jaws.
I clamped the pads in the vise and then welded all around so each pad was welded to it's side of the
vise.
I instantly had new jaw surfaces that were parallel, flat and even.
Worked great for me.
I little finish grinding and it was hard to tell they were added.
--
STAGESMITH - Custom Metal Fabrication - Renton, WA, US
"Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind."
William Shakespear
[osX]Ironman
Cathy Morgan
procedure make the jaws parallel again?
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote in message ...
william thomas powers
without bracket or spring. It's misaligned vertically about 1/4".
I took it apart and the moving jaw pivot hole didn't look worn. The bolt it
pivots on was bent a slight bit. The shafts didn't appear to be sprung.
So what I did yesterday, temp in the 90's here, was to fire up the propane
forge and drive a plug into the moving jaw pivot hole, (7/8" had to freehand
grind it down from 1" stock---bader to the rescue!). Hot hole, oversized
plug---it'll shrink tight!
Then trimmed off the excess with my 3' hacksaw and peened the plug ends, (yes
I do wear a belt and suspenders).
Next I'll grind everything flush and position the jaws nice and even (tweak the
shaft or cheeks for lateral play) then mark the new pivot hole and drill it
(borrowed a 7/8 drill bit from one fellow and will be borrowing the drill
from another since its a straight shank bit and my press uses tapers for
that size...) Anyway by the time most folk show up for the MOB (mid Ohio
Blacksmiths) meeting next Saturday I should be ready to forge the bracket
and spring and toss another postvise on the post vise pile!
Turned down an abused one at the fleamarket Saturday---no leg, sprung shafts,
worn spring, $15. its nice to be able to turn down stuff like that!
Remember folks that Post Vises are made from *STEEL* and so should be
treated accordingly---don't quench hot pieces, pre-heat before welding, etc
(had to drag one down to the grinder to prove this to a fellow lately:
lovely roostertail of bursty sparks...)
Thomas---tomorrow they cut my account!
Cathy Morgan
alignment, is that when they're brought together flush, the
end of one jaw sticks out slightly beyond the end of the
other - about 1/16". Also when the jaws are closed
together, I can slide a .015 feeling stock in between them
(on the left side where I should have been putting spacers
when holding stock at the other end) - can slide the .015
stock in about 1 1/2". At the end the gap is wider but it's
somewhere between .020 and 0.25 I'd guess.
This doesn't make a bit of difference for many things I need
to do at the vise. And I'm not making cooking forks or
anything like that now. But soon I'll need to open some
split flat bar stock at the end of the vise (as if I were
opening the bars for forging fork tines) and it would be
nice to have the option of doing this evenly. And in the
long run, I need to fix it before I suddenly come up on a
design where it matters a lot.
John Kelly wrote in message
<8i0tcl$b90$1...@grandprime.binc.net>...
>I am just catching this thread and forgive me if I am off
topic
>but........................If you are talking about the
jaws of the vice
>coming together like a mechanics (where the Jaws come
together evenly and
>parallel when the vice is closed) you are making a mistake.
>
Cathy Morgan
that Francis kept reminding me to get or make, and that I
kept putting off. (Since '83 or '84? Is there an award for
longest procrastination on this?)
I wouldn't worry about handicapping your hammer control by
getting a power hammer. For the first ten years or so I
vowed not to use any power hammer, jigs, extra tools, etc.
so as to keep improving my hammer control. But the power
hammer takes some control too, and you can learn both at the
same time. If I had it to do over again I'd just start
right out with the most efficient tools.
Back to the vise alignment, I noticed a thin piece of shim
stock sticking out on one side of the front leg, the one
that doesn't go to the ground but is bolted between a kind
of U. Maybe this is a fix that Bill Gichner applied before
I bought the vise from him in '82, or maybe it's something
that Francis did on a visit here. (OK everybody, don't turn
green at the idea of Francis coming around to fix things in
your shop.)
Anyway, I might see what happens if I pull it out and/or add
another. It would be nice to see a diagram of a post vise
pulled apart, with the proper names for each part. Must be
an old book or booklet that shows this, somewhere. Guess I
could ask Centaur Forge.
Rome Hutchings wrote in message
<3944...@news.sihope.com>...
>Well to keep this in perspective, I have just received the
same admonition
>in regard to the spacers. True it was coming from a
somewhat different
>context, me being kinda of the new guy and all. But this
afternoon my pal
>Ken Zitter says, in reference to whether or not a new guy
should have a trip
>hammer or not. So, right out of the mouth of wisdom comes,
Ken saying
>"you know what your grandfather said", you should be
learning to do this by
>hammer and by hand first he didn't have a trip hammer for
the first 20
>years,
>so..................."do you have a set of these,
yet?"...... Ken pointing
>out the
>vice spacer blocks, hanging neatly in a row, arms reach
from the leg vice!!
>
>Now about that vice, Cathy do you have these little
spacers? My buddy Brian
>says that the most common misalignment problem from
torqueing on one
>side of the vice is the nut in the back jaw becomes tweaked
off to one side.
>Usually this fix involves tearing the vice apart to knock
the nut loose and
>realign the "seated" position of the nut. Sometimes the
misalignment is
>more or other things, which without looking at it would be
hard to tell what
>has caused the problem.
>
>I hope that this might give you a few more clues as to what
to look at.
>Brian
>told me that upon occasion he has resorted to the body shop
weld and grind
>fix, tho it is not his preferred method of repair.
>
>If anyone else here has ever done a complete tear down and
rebuild of
>post vices has a good fix, I'd like to hear more, since I
presently have 2
>large
>6 and 7 inchers to do.
>
>Rome Hutchings
>The Prairie Is My Garden, Seed Co.
>13633 Ferman Avenue NW
>Clearwater, MN 55320
>(612) 878-1694 voice
>(612) 878-1720 fax
>website: www.theprairieismygarden.com
>general email: in...@theprairieismygarden.com
>
>Cathy Morgan <cjmo...@hemc.net> wrote in message
>news:Qa405.165423$MB.30...@news6.giganews.com...
Fdmorrison
>Thanks for looking into this, Rome. No, it's the spacers
>that Francis kept reminding me to get or make, and that I
>kept putting off. (Since '83 or '84? Is there an award for
>longest procrastination on this?)
Hi,
I don't use a post vice currently, but read the thread, and went to check one
of my old ones to think about it.
I was thinking you might take the bolt off the bottom front, and see where it's
shiney/worn. You might be able to peen that secton to build it up a bit.
might help; probably not.
You might also
1. mount your stock in the opp side for a year to even things out ;-)
2. use a shim that has a slight bevel on one fact to bring the jaws parallel as
things now stand
3. file (or grind/stone if file won't bite) the jaws parallel; and file the
1/16 overlap off of the two ends--and you are back to parallel, as is.
In a way, I guess, I don't see where having the jaw faces not quite exact is an
issue--unless it affects the work product.
On the machinist's vice that I now commonly use (not meant for hitting hot
metal cause not forged construction) I keep brass jaw inserts. These are kinda
sloppy, but I suppose they help to take up any unevenness in the jaw faces.
Frank Morrison
(Who's the Francis to whom you refer, btw? Not Francis W.?)
Cathy Morgan
faults only affect the work if I want to hold very small
stock in the vise and cut it on the left rather than the
right. Or if I want to open a split upsetting the 2 sides
back against the ends of the vise jaws - and want this
perfectly even. (Francis would say, "perfectly even?
Either it's even, or it's not even.")
So from that you will be able to gather that yes, it's
Francis Whitaker to whom I'm referring. After I'd studied
with him for some ten years, he adopted me as his legal
daughter - which didn't work out as well for either of us as
the teacher-student relationship had. The vise spacer idea
probably got "forgotten" during my most rebellious period.
But Tuesday I ordered a set from Centaur.
Fdmorrison wrote in message
<20000614180216...@ng-bj1.aol.com>...
>>"Cathy Morgan" cjmo...@hemc.net
Fdmorrison
wrt Francis Whitaker
>Thanks for suggestions. It's true that the current vise
>faults only affect the work if I want to hold very small
>stock in the vise and cut it on the left rather than the
>right. Or if I want to open a split upsetting the 2 sides
>back against the ends of the vise jaws - and want this
>perfectly even. (Francis would say, "perfectly even?
>Either it's even, or it's not even.")
>
>So from that you will be able to gather that yes, it's
>Francis Whitaker to whom I'm referring. After I'd studied
>with him for some ten years, he adopted me as his legal
>daughter - which didn't work out as well for either of us as
>the teacher-student relationship had. The vise spacer idea
>probably got "forgotten" during my most rebellious period.
>But Tuesday I ordered a set from Centaur.
Thanks for the answer.
I'm not a smith, but back in the early 80s when I was actively interested,
Francis Whitaker seemed to be the one person that the U. S. community had
collectively adopted as its leader.
Never got to meet him, just knew some here in New England that had. But at
least I got a signed Cookbook. You've reminded me to go back and read it
again.
One of the things I learned from smithing was just how awfully poor I was at
making things symmetrical. My rule still is: "Either it's uneven, or it's
uneven--or perfectly uneven, I guess." But at least I have some appreciation
of the ironwork of others.
Frank Morrison
Cathy Morgan
interesting anyway. It just needs to look purposeful.
Fdmorrison wrote in message
<20000615142010...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
Ernie Leimkuhler
>
> So from that you will be able to gather that yes, it's
> Francis Whitaker to whom I'm referring.
I will always remember Francis's demo at the Birmingham ABANA conference.
It was 100 degrees in the shade so nobody wanted to light up a forge.
Francis stood surrounded by over 100 smith, some with manny many years experience and he promptly
stunned every single smith in the crowd by demonstrating how to cold bend angle iron to any shape
with only a bending fork and a post vise.
It was amazing.
He used 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/8", so he didn't have to heat it, but watching him create a perfect circle
with the flange in, and then with the flange out, was awe inspiring.
Bend the wrong leg the wrong way, then bend the right leg the right way.
So simple.
He said he learned it from some members of the "Benders" union who used to bend angle iron tracks
for factory assembly line tracks.
John (EBo) David
>
> In article <B%725.218827$VR.33...@news5.giganews.com>, "Cathy Morgan" <cjmo...@hemc.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > So from that you will be able to gather that yes, it's
> > Francis Whitaker to whom I'm referring.
>
> I will always remember Francis's demo at the Birmingham ABANA conference.
>
> It was 100 degrees in the shade so nobody wanted to light up a forge.
> Francis stood surrounded by over 100 smith, some with manny many years experience and he promptly
> stunned every single smith in the crowd by demonstrating how to cold bend angle iron to any shape
> with only a bending fork and a post vise.
>
> It was amazing.
> He used 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/8", so he didn't have to heat it, but watching him create a perfect circle
> with the flange in, and then with the flange out, was awe inspiring.
>
> Bend the wrong leg the wrong way, then bend the right leg the right way.
He did the same thing at Russ Swider's shop when I was apprenticing...
As I recall the formula was "bend the opposite leg the opposite way at
about three times the radius, then the right leg the right way to
finish."
And for our demo he bent an "S" with angle iron and when he was done it
laid flat on the table...
Still amazes me to this day!
EBo --
John Kelly
I am a little short of brains on this one. I am missing out on bend the wrong
leg the wrong way...etc. Could you expalin a bit more so it might sink in.
Thanks
John (EBo) David
>
> I am a little short of brains on this one. I am missing out on bend the wrong
> leg the wrong way...etc. Could you expalin a bit more so it might sink in.
Understand... it hurt my brain the first time I saw him do it ;-)
imagine you want to bend a piece of angle iron to set a table or
somethin into it. As such, you want one leg to point in and the other
to point up (thus forming a ledge for the piece to fit into). Now if
you simply bend the inner leg (the one that the table is to sit on), you
will find that the whole pice twists up like a cork screw. So in order
counter the cork screw twist you have to bend the leg that sticks up as
if you were bending it to stick out.
hmmm... after rereading this it seams clear as mud... Anyone have a
camera, piece of angle and a bending fork?
This would be a great demo at ABANA 200 this year (if someone will cathc
it on film, etc.)
EBo --
Khordas the Salamander
seems to me that there's a good picture of this in Alex Weygers' 'the complete
modern blacksmith'. he shows how to do it hot, and then upset the bent-out leg to
get a true and sharp right angle bend. If any of you could reccomend a good
picture drop, I'll scan it, and post the addy. the description as originally posted
left me and obviously a few others doing some serious head scratching.
Khordas