Flour doesn't dissolve in gravy
The Wolf
I was making chicken gravy and the flour didn't dissolve when I whisked and
boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
Jerry Avins
> I was making chicken gravy and the flour didn't dissolve when I whisked and
> boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
I never tried with raw wheat flour. I always make a roux. To use any
flour, start with cold liquid and have the flour well dispersed as it
heats. That way it doesn't cook into lumps. Wondra is more expensive
than regular flour, but it doesn't lump. I used it before I learned
about roux.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Edwin Pawlowski
"The Wolf" <elvis...@compuserve.net> wrote in message
news:BC5D6325.52FE5%elvis...@compuserve.net...
>
> I was making chicken gravy and the flour didn't dissolve when I whisked
and
> boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
>
Flour never dissolves in gravy. It attracts some of the molecules to make a
thickener. It has to be mixed with a liquid, added slowly, then brought to a
high heat to act.
You can improve your cooking by buying a basic book on cooking chemistry and
physics. Julia Child's "The Way to Cook" gives some basics as does Russ
Parsons "How to Read A French Fry."
Ed
e...@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Steve Wertz
Make a roux from flour and fat first, then add the gravy
ingredients.
-sw
-sw
some...@thedoor.com
wrote:
>
>I was making chicken gravy and the flour didn't dissolve when I whisked and
>boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
Without knowing exactly what you did, it's hard to say, but next time,
try starting with the chicken drippings in the pan, whisk in the flour
to form a thin paste, cook it a little, then remove from the heat
(important) and then gradually whisk in the liquid. When this is a
smooth mixture, return to the heat and bring to the boil, whisking
often. Another method if you think the gravy is too thin and want to
add more flour, is to dissolve the flour in a little cold water to
make a slurry, then whisk the slurry into the gravy. If you add the
flour to hot gravy, it will cook into lumps before you can whisk it in
to dissolve it.
CJ
Joseph Littleshoes
What were you putting the flour into? Were you using the "drippings"
from a cooked chicken?
For some strange reason i have not been abel to figure out yet, about 1
in 10 of my sauces do not turn out right, or as well as i would like.
And about a quarter of those are because its "lumpy" when that happens
and i am pressed for time i just filter the offending sauce and serve
it.
Jerry has pointed out the necessity of a "roux" and back when i was an
impetuous youth, i sometimes just dumped flour and butter into a pan and
added milk or water or wine and expected a "sauce" to magickally
appear. More often than not i was disappointed.
Your question does not leave a lot of room for speculation, you do not
say what you added the flour too, or the amounts you used, with a roux
the ingredients do not have to be all the same temp but it is important
to make a ratio of oil to flour, too much flour added too quickly to not
enough oil will produce lumps as will too little flour and too much oil.
I do not know the chemical reactions that occur when flour is added to
hot oil but i am aware of the "gluten" aspect that radically alters
itself when exposed to heat, so one has to be fairly precise in ones
ratio of oil to flour. 1:2 if i am not mistaken.
--
JL
jmcquown
> I was making chicken gravy and the flour didn't dissolve when I
> whisked and boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
Tell us how you prepared the gravy. If you simply tried to whisk flour into
existing liquid, yes, you will get lumps and it won't dissolve. I use a
slurry with cornstarch or arrowroot to thicken gravy after the fact.
Jill
The Wolf
7__Zb.82490$8a5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net, "jmcquown"
<jmcq...@bellsouth.net> opined:
> The Wolf wrote:
>> I was making chicken gravy and the flour didn't dissolve when I
>> whisked and boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
>
> Tell us how you prepared the gravy. If you simply tried to whisk flour into
> existing liquid,
That's what I did but it worked before. I will try Jerry's roux idea, makes
sense.
jmcquown
Roux is perfect. I always start with butter or oil, salt & pepper, stir in
flour and then add the liquid to make gravy. The slurry is only for
thickening after the fact.
Jill
*rosie*
into an old jar, and add water or broth.
shake the "hell out of it" it eliminates all clumps!
i whisk it slowly back into the juices in the pan slowly, until
thickened!
--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie
"how wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before
starting to improve the world.
..................................anne frank
Jerry Avins
http://www.dianaskitchen.com/page/sauce/roux.htm is a recipe that looks
interesting, but I haven't tried it. I make my roux in a small skillet
without spicing. Any spices are added to the dish as a whole. Rues made
with rendered fats and particularly with stable oils such as canola keep
without refrigeration for at least a week. All rues freeze well. Butter
roux keeps in the fridge as well as butter. I use it so seldom that I
make only as much as I will need.
The problem with thickening with wheat flour, even Wondra, is that raw
flour has a nasty taste. Cooking the flour in the dish long enough to
get rid of that taste isn't easy. Making roux pre cooks it. Both Child
and Rombauer tell about roux, and they don't agree, so I ignore them
both. When I need to thicken a sauce but have neither roux nor time to
make some, I use oat flour. (I keep a jar on hand that I make by
chopping rolled oats in a blender and straining the result with a flour
sifter.) If the sauce I want to thicken is already hot, I put the oat
flour into a little water, and heat while stirring to make a thick cream
which I add to the sauce. Oat flour doesn't have that nasty raw-wheat
taste. As soon as it looks ready, it is ready. (Sometimes, I start a
sauce with oat flour. For example, adding brown sugar and malt vinegar
to the oat "cream" makes a dandy sauce for broiled scallops when one
wants to avoid butter.)
OK: roux. Warm the fat in a skillet, stirring constantly while adding
flour. Pretty soon, mix shows bubbles: you are deep frying the flour.
Add flour until more would prevent stirring, and keep the mix moving
while it darkens. The raw taste is gone when the color is obvious; you
don't need the patience to make it dark brown. This roux is powerful
stuff; it can absorb prodigious amounts of water. Stir hot roux into
cold liquid or cold roux into hot liquid, but the safest vis-a-vis lumps
is to start with everything below cooking temperature, disperse, then
heat. I use this kind of roux to thicken deglazed pan drippings. If I
were a purist, I would make the roux from the poured-off fat. Canola or
peanut oil is better for my arteries.
Jerry
P.S. When I'm the cook on a camping trip, I thicken sauces with instant
mashed potato. (Those trips are the only time I have it around.) It
works well, and if I had trouble thickening things at home, I would use
it there too. The flavor is good enough for me.
*rosie*
> Jerry
>
> P.S. When I'm the cook on a camping trip, I thicken sauces with
instant
> mashed potato.
what a NEAT idea!
thanks jerry.
Donna Rose
>> whisked and
>> boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
>
However, when making a pan gravy from drippings, you can also make a
slurry, by adding a couple of tablespoons of flour to a jar with a tight
fitting lid. Add about a cup of COLD water, put the lid on and shake
vigorously till all the flour is suspended in the water. Slowly add this
to your pan drippings while stirring constantly; bring to a boil, then
lower heat and simmer till the flour gets cooked.
The gravy won't thicken until it reaches a boil, so don't be alarmed if
it looks too runny at first.
Season with salt and pepper. I've never had lumps using this method, but
if you do, just pour it through a fine-meshed strainer as Joseph
suggested and serve.
--
Donna
A pessimist believes all women are bad. An optimist hopes they are.
To reply, remove the SPAM BLOCK
jmcquown
Yes, those instant mashed potato flakes work well for that. Not for much
else, unless you just like instant potatoes LOL
Jerry Avins
Not much else, but some else. Mixed with canned salmon or soaked cod
flakes and chopped parsley, carrot tops, or spinach or whatever in the
woods looks good and doesn't taste bitter, it makes dandy croquettes,
especially when fried in the bacon grease you didn't clean up from
breakfast. (If you leave bacon grease in the skillet, you have to
protect it from raccoons as best you can.) Gourmet camp cooking is a
gratifying art. Almost anything is a treat, even fried Rice Crispies.
To make a passable knish, form wetted instant mashed into a rectangular
patty, roll in flour, and fry both sides until it begins to brown in fat
deep enough to come halfway up. Then drain a bit, roll in flour again,
and repeat. And repeat. Again. Eventually, the flour crust builds up
thick, and if you don't think too much about it, it's a satisfying nosh.
Pepper in the potato, flour, or both goes well, and I've even used
ground cloves. If "knish" isn't elegant enough, how about "Pommes du
Terre en Croute"? You can go really multicultural by serving PdTeC like
a burrito, with sour cream and salsa. :-)
Jerry
Nancree
>boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
>
There are two ways: 1) start with a roux--that is, flour mixed into the fat
while cooking at a low temperature. Then add rest of gravy ingredients.
2) If the gravy is already made and still needs more thickening, in a small
dish mix a couple of Tbsp. flour into COLD water, and then whisk into gravy.
Let cook for a minute or two.
Joseph Littleshoes
A guilty pleasure? A lot of people have been conditioned to appreciate
this kind of food (instant potatoes and their ilk American cheese food
product etc. etc.). They don't know any better and even when they
accept, intellectually, the need to change their diet, it is a change
in the flavours they are used to and no matter how good and nutritious
the food is, they may not like it. Usually the palate , the sense of
taste, and the appreciation of better nutrition (which i insist has an
affect on consciousness, as does over processed commercial food) is one
of the easiest things to "re-educate" in the human animal.
This is, though, most particularly a problem with the elderly, as the
elderly's habits and tastes are set and its an almost Sysiphian task to
alter them, and one has to consider whether one should. One of these
days i will get around to posting the menu of one of my "elderly
relatives" formal, sit down, "companys coming over" dinners.
Well of course that got me thinking and i proceeded to write the
following.
It usually starts out with a nice, microwaved bowl of Campbell's cream
of celery soup, served in a nice China export. This will be followed by
a frozen fish entree ala Marie Calendar's frozen entrees followed by a
fresh garden salad in an Italian vinaigrette [formal bow, i taught her
how to make the vinaigrette] this will often be followed by a small
piece of frozen chicken, nicely warmed up, and so much quicker since i
convinced her to actually use the microwave she had been given as a
present. Which is another funny story cause after her initial
reluctance to use the machine she got addicted to making her cups of tea
in it, it seems the micro wave can make her a cup of tea in 30 seconds,
where her gas stove takes all of 5- 10 minutes to boil water. And when
her original microwave got wet and shorted out she genuinely lamented
its passing. But was unwilling to set its replacement up. To do
"anything" technical, like plugging it in, but at all of 10 pounds or
so, i knew her real reason was that she could not or just barely, move
it, but it went up easily into a set of kitchen shelves she has right
next to an electrical outlet. And it did not even require a 3 prong plug
adapter as her old one did. After the chicken there will often be a
pasta course, love her macaroni and cheese that she insists on buying
extra cheddar for and adding it to the kraft product, followed by
desert. Her wine of choice for meal is Gallo chanin blanc(sp?) at about
$4.00 a bottle a rare treat for her.
--
JL
Joseph Littleshoes
A guilty pleasure? A lot of people have been conditioned to appreciate
jmcquown
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> *rosie* wrote:
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> P.S. When I'm the cook on a camping trip, I thicken sauces with
>>>> instant mashed potato.
>>>
>>>
>>> what a NEAT idea!
>>> thanks jerry.
>>
>> Yes, those instant mashed potato flakes work well for that. Not for
>> much
>> else, unless you just like instant potatoes LOL
>
> A guilty pleasure? A lot of people have been conditioned to appreciate
> this kind of food
My mother, middle brother and I lived with her parents for about 6 months
after returning from Thailand, waiting for my father and oldest brother to
return stateside. My grandparents were in their early 70's at that time.
They had a set menu for every day of the week, designed to fit their budget
and their taste.
It went something like this: Sunday - pot roast with potatoes. Monday -
stew made from leftover pot roast and potatoes. Tuesday - chicken and rice.
Wednesday - mince and mashed potatoes and English peas. Thursday -
spaghetti. Friday - fish sticks and tater tots (a nod to the fish-on-Friday
thing even though they weren't Catholic). *That* is my guilty pleasure - I
adore fish sticks and tater tots! Saturday - I don't remember Saturday,
hmmm. I'll have to ask my Mom.
Anyway, it worked for them, was easy for them to shop. I'll admit it was
boring after a while, but at least I always knew what to expect for dinner!
Jill
Nancree
Nancree
-------------------------
Jerry Avins
...
> Her wine of choice for meal is Gallo chanin blanc(sp?) at about
> $4.00 a bottle a rare treat for her.
> --
> JL
The poor dear! Get her hooked on Carlo Rossi "Paisano" at $8.50 a liter.
(The half-liter jug might be easier for her to handle.) I serve that
plonk from a cut-glass decanter which would cost a dozen liters to
replace. Even some guests who know what's in the decanter prefer it to
more "cultured" wines also at table.
Jerry
Joseph Littleshoes
> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > Her wine of choice for meal is Gallo chanin blanc(sp?) at about
> > $4.00 a bottle a rare treat for her.
> > --
> > JL
>
> The poor dear! Get her hooked on Carlo Rossi "Paisano" at $8.50 a
> liter.
> (The half-liter jug might be easier for her to handle.) I serve that
> plonk from a cut-glass decanter which would cost a dozen liters to
> replace. Even some guests who know what's in the decanter prefer it to
>
> more "cultured" wines also at table.
>
> Jerry
The chenin blanc was recomended to us as a cooking wine, and did so well
in the chicken fricasse we bought it for that now, on that rare occasion
she serves wine to her guests, it's the chenin blanc. I will have to
buy a nice decanter for her, never thought of that, i think i have an
old "tantalus" around some where.
--
JL
Geoff Harbinson
sound extremely helpful
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4WWZb.43981$ut3....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
Nancree
>> and
>> > boiled the gravy. What did I do wrong?
Flour won't integrate with the gravy if just mixed in dry. You can do it two
ways--if you haven't yet made the gravy, whisk flour into the Fat (no water
yet). Whisk it (it's called a "roux") over a low flame for about 1or 2
minutes. Then add water, broth, or other liquid into the paste (roux) and
whisk while it is simmering.
If you have already added the liquid, put some flour in a bowl, add water
and whisk _before_ adding it slowly to the gravy, while whisking.
Jerry Avins
http://www.google.com/search?q=chemistry+cooking
"On Food and Cooking; The Science and Lore of the Kitchen", Harold McGee
Fireside Edition (Simon and Schuster) ISBN 0-684-84328-5
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Frayed
"Geoff Harbinson" <geoff.h...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:xaq7c.5059$A_2.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I would love to know the names of a few books on the Chemistry of cooking
I think you will like Cookwise by Shirley Corriher, this link has a lot of reviews.
--
Karen
"Life doesn't always parse."
Malachy McCormick, A Decent Cup of Tea
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688102298/inktomi-bkasin-20/ref%3Dnosim/104-2331770-2067900