will roaches develop a resistance to boric acid powder?

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Dan Jacobson

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Jul 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/17/00
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Boric acid powder works great on roaches, but won't they develop a resistance
to it in a few generations like everything else, or is the different
fundamental mechanism somehow not possible to be evolved around as quick?

By the way, alt.consumers.pest-control, love the concept, ought to be elevated
to misc.consumers.pest-control but I'm going to be election ringleader. My #1
ISP of Taiwan didn't carry that alt group.

I'm crossposting to sci.bio.entomology.misc, but as usual when I post to
sci. groups, I bet I said something too mundane, and my post will be ushered
out via the Followups-to header... feel free. I would have even posted to
sci.bio.entomology.homoptera instead but there looks like few post there...
might be moderated and I'm too lazy to investigate.
--
http://www.geocities.com/jidanni Tel: +886-4-5854780

Quiet Desperation

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Jul 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/18/00
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In article <8l00qv$7...@netnews.hinet.net>, "Dan Jacobson"
<jid...@kimo.FIXcomTHIS.tw> wrote:

> Boric acid powder works great on roaches, but won't they develop a
> resistance
> to it in a few generations like everything else, or is the different
> fundamental mechanism somehow not possible to be evolved around as quick?

I've always read that the boric acid reacts violently with water, so the
roaches get killed next time they take a sip of water, or go somewhere
moist, which they most assuredly will. So, I guess it would be like
humans developing a resistance to bullets? ;-)

Jason Root

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Jul 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/18/00
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Quiet Desperation <_remove_otomo@_remove_att.net> wrote in message
news:_remove_otomo-CBC...@netnews.att.net...

Wouldn't it be more like humans growing a resistence to hydrochloric acid?

Bart van Herk

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Jul 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/19/00
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>>Wouldn't it be more like humans growing a resistence to hydrochloric
acid?
<<

humans HAVE a resistance to hydrochloric acid - it is in all our
stomachs.

Hartelijke groeten, * Bart *

RJF

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Jul 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/19/00
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The Boric acid does not work on roaches like a typical poison. Roaches
in one way act like cats. If the boric acid powder is spread where the
roaches walk, a roach will walk though the boric acid and get it on its
body. When the roaches return to the nest they clean each other off
licking or eating off the boric acid. Boric acid bubbles up and expands
when it comes in contact with water or liquid. When the boric acid comes
in contact with the liquid in the roaches stomach or wherever it bubbles
up and expands, killing the roach.

I have used it effectively where I've had bad infestations. It takes a
few weeks to work but if you keep spreading it during that time it
completely eliminates the infestation. Exterminators hate it and insist
it doesn't work; but it's more effective against German roaches or the
typical city roach than any insecticide or poison and far safer where
there are children or pets.

Ray F

Allyn Weaks

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Jul 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/20/00
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> but it's more effective against German roaches or the
> typical city roach than any insecticide or poison and far safer where
> there are children or pets.

Don't fool yourself. Boric acid _is_ a poison, and a pesticide. It's
not 'safe' around children and pets with no further qualification. It's
safer than some other pesticides, but only if used in an appropriate
manner, which does not include sprinkling it hither and yon. There is
no safe substance, only safe use.

The boric acid MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) hazard warning reads:
"WARNING! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN,
EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM, LIVER AND
KIDNEYS." A little further along in the MSDS, you'll find: "Adult fatal
dose reported at 5 to > 30 grams." 5 grams is about the weight of two
pennies, so even though it's not in a class with nicotine, it's not
something you want to use with wild abandon. Boric acid is also toxic
to aquatic life, so should never be used in a way such that it can wash
into surface or ground water.

--
Allyn Weaks allyn...@tardigrade.net Seattle WA USDA 7/8 Sunset 5
Pacific Northwest Wildlife Gardening: <http://www.tardigrade.org/natives/>
Senders of bulk email to my account agree to pay me a $500 handling fee.

JoeTallon

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Jul 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/20/00
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Are Chemical Senestive People senestive to boric acid? Have there ever been any
big lawsuits either health or enviromental against BA.? Are there any customers
that refuse to allow BA on their property? Have farmworkers or citizens ever
been decontaminated and rushed to the hosiptal from accidental poisoning? Is BA
still sold over the counter in drug stores as a eye medicne? I have always
heard how deadly boric acid is but have never found the dead people. Joe
Tallon

Karl S. Erbland

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Jul 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/20/00
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In article <39765061...@cloud9.net>, r...@cloud9.net says...

> I have used it (ed. -- boric acid powder)effectively where I've had bad infestations.


> It takes a
> few weeks to work but if you keep spreading it during that time it
> completely eliminates the infestation.

Treatments for roaches are not "one-time" affairs. So, you are correct in
that regard.

As far as "completely eliminating the infestation," not necessarily or
always true.

> Exterminators hate it and insist
> it doesn't work;

Where do you get your info?

I don't hate boric acid products. They work fine for the appropriate
situations. They would not be my first or even second or third choice
when treating for cockroaches.

> but it's more effective against German roaches or the
> typical city roach than any insecticide or poison

Huh? Where do you get your info?

There are many other control products for roaches (of any type) which
work better than boric acid products.

There's no such thing as a typical city roach. There are many types of
roaches which inhabit city dwellings or properties. German cockroaches
are just one type.

> and far safer where
> there are children or pets.

Huh? Where do you get your info?

There are similar precautionary statements made on labeling for boric
acid products as there are for others.

Many roach control products on the market today are much more effective
and potentially safer than boric acid products.

I didn't see you mention anything regarding Insect Growth Regulators
(IGR) or non-chemical methods of roach control.

> Ray F

Ray who?


Karl

--
Karl Erbland
Away Pest Control Services
Tiffin, OH 44883
www.awayteam.net

ODA Business License #1191
ODA Applicator License #4405
Disclaimer: This information is offered "as is" and is not meant to
replace an inspection and treatment by a licensed/certified pest control
operator.

Vespaman

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Jul 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/21/00
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for once me and you agree 100% Joe. you make an excellent point

Jim

JoeTallon <joet...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000720104640...@ng-mf1.aol.com...

RJF

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Jul 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/21/00
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Karl is partially correct. While in many limited situations Boric Acid
has appeared to completely eliminate the problem it could not have
killed every roach but only greatly reduced the population in the
apartments where it was used.

As a former property manager, owner of multifamily buildings, and city
dweller, numerous exterminators have told me boric acid does not work. I
believe they are defending their livelihood and in my experiences boric
acid used repeatedly works better and is safer than anything the
exterminators tried. However I admit it was most successful with the
smaller german roaches rather than with the large American roaches
(waterbugs), and I don't know if it would work with Palmettos.

While I have heard of several of the new products I haven't seen them
all used. I have tried the bait stations (some of which I believe use
the growth inhibitor) and while some worked, in my experience they were
less effective than boric acid.

Ray F

RJF

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Jul 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/21/00
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RJF

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Jul 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/21/00
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John Epler

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Jul 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/22/00
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Boric acid does work. Here in Florida (Publix sells them) one can purchase "Harris Famous
Roach Tablets" (I have no financial interest in the company). A boric acid concentration of
40% is listed on the box.

We scatter the tablets throughout the house; they successfully kill the nice large smoky
brown roaches (Periplaneta fuliginosa) and the odd other roaches that frequently make their
way inside our house (we live way out in the woods - or should I say "swamp"? ;-) ). I have
used various sprays and other concoctions throughout the 18 years we've lived in this house.
The tablets appear to provide the best control. Note that these are anecdotal data.

Our two cats show no interest in the tablets.

Note I am not a certified pest control operator. However, I used to teach workshops for pest
control operators about insects, so I do have a smattering of experience in this field.

RJF wrote:

--
John H. Epler, Ph.D. (jhe...@concentric.net)
Systematic Entomologist
just south of Wakulla Springs, FL
Interested in chironomid midges or water beetles?
Check out my page at http://www.concentric.net/~jhepler/index.html

look here@att.net Gromit

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Jul 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/22/00
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If the roaches die in an inaccessable location, when they finally
decompose will the acid in the carcass be available to kill the next roach
that crawls through there?
I've found the best way to apply the powders is to use a squeezable
plastic bottle use for the dispensing of catsup/ketchup, mustard and the
like. All you need is the smallest of holes or cracks in which to insert the
spout and then give a squeeze.
I've even mixed a very small percentage of Sevin powder with boric acid
or diatomaceous earth or even cornstarch and baby powder. The latter two are
simply a carrier vehicle so that too much Sevin is not used. When I see a
crawling insect in my home it usually isn't crawling!

Tom


"RJF" <r...@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:39765061...@cloud9.net...


> The Boric acid does not work on roaches like a typical poison. Roaches
> in one way act like cats. If the boric acid powder is spread where the
> roaches walk, a roach will walk though the boric acid and get it on its
> body. When the roaches return to the nest they clean each other off
> licking or eating off the boric acid. Boric acid bubbles up and expands
> when it comes in contact with water or liquid. When the boric acid comes
> in contact with the liquid in the roaches stomach or wherever it bubbles
> up and expands, killing the roach.
>

> I have used it effectively where I've had bad infestations. It takes a


> few weeks to work but if you keep spreading it during that time it

> completely eliminates the infestation. Exterminators hate it and insist
> it doesn't work; but it's more effective against German roaches or the
> typical city roach than any insecticide or poison and far safer where


> there are children or pets.
>

> Ray F


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