Marking $20 bills
D. L. Hawes
Ken M. wrote in message <39447844...@ix.netcom.com>...
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Me wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone else noticed that when paying for
>> something with a $20, that frequently, the cashier
>> will place a check mark on the bill with a heavy
>> marker pen before placing the bill in the cash
>> register? For some reason, I get lots of $20, I
>> guess because that's what ATM machines seem
>> to dispense the most often.
>>
>> I don't know why I just thought of this now, but
>> does anyone happen to know why cashiers will
>> frequently mark up the $20 bills they receive? I
>> certainly can't see how placing a check mark on
>> a bill would thwart a counterfeiter or prevent a
>> robbery because there are already so many $20
>> bills with marks on them that it would hardly be
>> a unique identifier.
>
>Actually I have never noticed that. But sometimes I get 10's or 20's
>that have large red spots on them. I keep thinking it may have been
>inside one of those exploding dye packs they give robbers at banks,
>and I get a little paranoid -- carrying them around!
>
>(ken)
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>To reply to this message replace (*) with (-)
Jack Gavin
> >that have large red spots on them. I keep thinking it may have been
> >inside one of those exploding dye packs they give robbers at banks,
> >and I get a little paranoid -- carrying them around!
>
>
What's defacement?
For US currency, <http://www.bep.treas.gov/allfacts.htm> says:
<quote>
Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the
United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is
generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures,
perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any
bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any
national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve
System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall
be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or
both.
Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for
circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret
Service. Their address is: United States Secret Service, 1800 G Street,
N. W., Washington, DC 20223.
</quote>
Without *intent* to make it *unable to be reissued*, it is not illegal
defacement. It doesn't sound like the red spots or cashiers' pen marks
would be a violation.
With regard to US coins, <http://www.ustreas.gov/opc/opc0033.html> says:
<quote>
What is the definition of mutilated coins? Is it illegal for people to
use coins to make jewelry, souveniers or other items?
This question is addressed by 331, U.S.C. 18, which provides penalties
for the mutilation of our coins. These penalties consist of not more
than $2,000 or imprisonment of not more than five years, or both. This
section generally applies to anyone who "fraudulently alters, defaces,
mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens" any
coins circulating in the United States. It also addresses anyone who
"fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells . . . or
brings into the United States, any such coin." If you believe you know
of such fraud, you should contact your local office of the United
States Secret Service, which is responsible for investigating such
cases.
</quote>
On the web page, each occurance of the word "fraudulently" is
highlighted in bold.
--
Jack Gavin
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bob Ward
wrote:
>that's interesting, since defacing currency is a criminal offense.
And I'm sure you can provide a specific statute which criminalizes
writing on currency?
I'll give you a hint - it won't be
Sec. 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites
or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft,
note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
since making a mark on the currency does not "render such bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued".
>
>Ken M. wrote in message <39447844...@ix.netcom.com>...
>>x-no-archive:yes
>>
>>Me wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone else noticed that when paying for
>>> something with a $20, that frequently, the cashier
>>> will place a check mark on the bill with a heavy
>>> marker pen before placing the bill in the cash
>>> register? For some reason, I get lots of $20, I
>>> guess because that's what ATM machines seem
>>> to dispense the most often.
>>>
>>> I don't know why I just thought of this now, but
>>> does anyone happen to know why cashiers will
>>> frequently mark up the $20 bills they receive? I
>>> certainly can't see how placing a check mark on
>>> a bill would thwart a counterfeiter or prevent a
>>> robbery because there are already so many $20
>>> bills with marks on them that it would hardly be
>>> a unique identifier.
>>
>>Actually I have never noticed that. But sometimes I get 10's or 20's
>>that have large red spots on them. I keep thinking it may have been
>>inside one of those exploding dye packs they give robbers at banks,
>>and I get a little paranoid -- carrying them around!
>>
Bob Ward
Bill B
You must not live in LA. This place must be awash in fake money cause I see
this done all the time.
Elric of Imrryr
says...
> > Actually I have never noticed that.
>
> You must not live in LA. This place must be awash in fake money cause I see
> this done all the time.
>
>
>
At least the Mafia doesn't run at a deficit, and they are honest about being crooks.
Bret Halford
Quiet Reporter
anwyay...
typically when you see a store clerk grabbing a marker of sorts and
then just running a little line or some such thing on the twenty
dollar bill you just handed them, they're not "marking" the money.
rather, they're ensuring that you're not passing off counterfeit
currency (no, there's no reason to be offended - their boss is making
them do that). when they "write" on the bill, it is supposed to turn
a specific color (which verifies its authenticity). if they were to
otherwise draw what turned out to be something different (i can't say
that the colors are supposed to be), that would signal to them they
have been handed a bad note. of course, there are a number of other
alternate means of authenticating that your money is legitimate, but
quite frankly, a lot of them just aren't practical in everyday
situations. try holding up any of the new currency from the fivers up
to the ben franklins under an ultraviolet light - the thin polymer
threads that are "inside" the bills will glow a particular shade (red
on the $100, blue on the $10, etc.). needless to say, your average
hot dog vendor doesn't equip his cart (not does the quickie mart) with
such devices, but this "special" pen is a quick and easy way for them
to receive a little assurance that they're not gonna get burned.
as for defacing currency, it comes down to this. if such alterations
(e.g. - scribbling love messages all over a note or taking scissors
to it) are done in an attempt to defraud someone, then it's illegal
(duh). effectively, you would then be participating in counterfeiting
activities yourself. but the mere instance of writing on a note,
unless done for illegal purposes (like trying to change its value), in
and of itself is not unlawful.
next time i'll write more. :-)
-QR
On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 13:11:29 -0400, unid...@mindspring.com wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 15:08:21 GMT, "Bill B" <Bersh...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>> Actually I have never noticed that.
>>
>>You must not live in LA. This place must be awash in fake money cause I see
>>this done all the time.
>>
>
>
>I've never seen it done anyplace I have been!
>
>Could be the marker sales folks found a hot market for their shit!
>
>"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to
>prayer." -mark twain.
Gregory
> >>> something with a $20, that frequently, the cashier
> >>> will place a check mark on the bill with a heavy
> >>> marker pen before placing the bill in the cash
> >>> register?
Are you sure that they are marking them? There is a very commonly-used
counterfeit detecting pen which is used by running the end of it over the
bill. I don't think it leaves a mark, though.
Greg
Gregory
<unid...@mindspring.com> wrote :
> Raging paranoia!
Not really. They lose a lot of money to counterfeiters. Since the
task of swiping the detector pen across a bill takes less than one second, I
would probably do the same thing, if I were in the stores' situation.
Greg
John
not_c...@hotmailSPAM.com (Quiet Reporter) wrote:
> typically when you see a store clerk grabbing a marker of sorts and
> then just running a little line or some such thing on the twenty
> dollar bill you just handed them, they're not "marking" the money.
I witnessed a cashier marking bills about two weeks ago at a Best Buy
in Cerritos, CA. The customer in front of me was paying with cash and
I could not understand why the cashier was marking the bills with a
line. Now I understand why.
Bruce or Tracy
cashier
what she was doing. She told us that she was testing to see if it was
real. Sometimes, if you just ask them, they will tell you. At least,
she was nice enough to tell us.
Fortunately, the $20 bill was legit.
Gregory
<unid...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:qvb8lssoj4d9cpos7...@4ax.com...
> what do they do when they have one that reacts to the swipe?
>
> Confiscate it and call the Secret Service or give it back to the customer
> to try to pass someplace else?
...as opposed to what, accepting the counterfeit? I'm sure each store
handles it according to their own policy.
Greg
John Lewis
>On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 07:31:59 -0400, "Gregory" <spamb...@mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Not really. They lose a lot of money to counterfeiters. Since the
>>task of swiping the detector pen across a bill takes less than one second, I
>>would probably do the same thing, if I were in the stores' situation.
>
>
>what do they do when they have one that reacts to the swipe?
>
>Confiscate it and call the Secret Service or give it back to the customer
>to try to pass someplace else?
What would YOU do if you were in the store's position and suspicious
twenty had been handed to you?
Gregory
<unid...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:76h9lsknpfu4d1u85...@4ax.com...
> As opposed to nothing - I offered the alternatives available to the
> merchant, which do they do?
What foolish notion convinced you that I am privy all stores' policies?
> YOu have a choice of either of these actions
Wrong. I am not a store. I don't check for counterfeits. Get back in
touch with earth.
Greg
Gregory
<unid...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> You have been posting with so much authority about the subject you
> certainly acted as if you were!
Research of your posting history indicates that you are indeed
feeble-minded. So, let me remind you that the only thing I originally
posted (which ignited your illogical comments) was the possibility that a
marking pen might actually be a counterfeit-detecting pen. No claims of
authority on anything. Now, perhaps you would do us the courtesy of getting
back on your meds.
Greg
X Metro Man
<diamo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Not really. They lose a lot of money to counterfeiters. Since the
>>>task of swiping the detector pen across a bill takes less than one second, I
>>>would probably do the same thing, if I were in the stores' situation.
>>
>>
>>what do they do when they have one that reacts to the swipe?
>>
>>Confiscate it and call the Secret Service or give it back to the customer
>>to try to pass someplace else?
>
>What would YOU do if you were in the store's position and suspicious
>twenty had been handed to you?
My question is this: How accurate are those pens? False positives?
False negatives?
Bob Ward
>On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:55:14 -0400, "Gregory" <spamb...@mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>You have been posting with so much authority about the subject you
>certainly acted as if you were! Maybe you might give reality a try when
>you reply!
In that case, would you like to put your money where your mouth is,
and tell us where you got your law degree? You keep posting as if you
knew what you were talking about - what are your credentials?
John Lewis
wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:44:49 -0500, John Lewis
At best, fairly good. You have to practice a bit with them to see the
color change(s) for "acceptable" and "suspect".
Gregory
news:8vqalsko214sngvdr...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:27:52 -0400, "Gregory" <spamb...@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
> Sounds like you are upgrading your diagnosis of me - last I recall you had
> said I was autistic -
I recall that you didn't understand the meaning of that term, so I
tried to make it simpler for you this time.
Greg
Dave Hitt
>On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:27:52 -0400, "Gregory" <spamb...@mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Research of your posting history indicates that you are indeed
>>feeble-minded.
>
>
>Sounds like you are upgrading your diagnosis of me - last I recall you had
>said I was autistic -
I think you'd need to show considerable improvement to be either.
<plonk>
----
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aaron kendrick
ink will appear brown if the bill is good or black if the bill is bad.
I worked in a store for 3 years and another clerk accepted a phony $100.
bill. He was new so the owner didn't fire him. The phony bill was turned
over to the federal authorities. The store was out $100 dollars.