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911 is about economics, geopolitics, and the exposed motives of bad rich men caught perpetrating a mass-murder frame-up. We know a lot and we need to review it. How?

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Dick Eastman

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Mar 14, 2002, 11:59:42 AM3/14/02

Writing to newsgroups is like writing in sand on the ocean beach. It
is all soon lost in the ebb and flow. We don't stay with what we
know long enough to act on what we know, to push what we know in front
of those who don't want to hear it but need to anyway.

So much has been established about the frame-up and then passed by.
We know who did it and why. But then what? -- seeing nothing happen
we then
spent our time and effort looking for a "smoking gun" that will wake
up
people unwilling to read about Kazakhstan pipelines, Northern Alliance
opium, the evidence and investigators on the greatest gold price
fixing case
in history that was kept on the 23rd floor of the North Tower on a
floor
that we know was bombed seperately when that tower as hit many floors
above,
(remember the 60 minutes interniew of John Tabeek, wtc security
chief?) ;
the evidence against Giffen and Mobil/Exxon in illegal oil swaps
between
sanctioned Iran and Kazakhstan, and the many many statements and
actions of
a government clearly anticipating war impending war against Afganistan
and
seeking to enlist the help of India and other nations in war against
Afganistan in the months before 911 (exactly as they are working
against
Irawq right now! (except that we weren't paying attention then).

The fact is, all of you, my fellow discussants, the case against the
government has been proven and proven and proven. But none are so
blind as
those who will loose their jobs if they admit that they see. And so,
faced
with a giant media-whore yawn and with politican stooges looking at
their
watches, we all concluded that what was needed was the Holy Grail of
a
"smoking gun" (which may or may not exist, but which has certainly
proved
elusive for me to establish (now I am one of those who argued "that
there
was no plane" )
-- but that is not to say that we do not have lots of hardware
evidence, we
do: for example, we do have the video record of the object that flew
by
the wtc at exactly the moment that South Tower was hit, (and some say
there
is an object we have established the use of remote control and know
something of the history of its use (e.g. EgyptAir flight from New
York to
Cairo on October 31, 1999) -- and we have caught all of the holes in
the
official stories.

The fact is the crime of the frame-up is established beyond doubt, but
we
are sidetracked trying to find the immediately conclusive
no-need-to-think
"clincher" that will satisfy those who can't think to much and and
render
irrelevant the media and government that won't process evidence, or
even
admit the possibility of a crime or the need for an investigation.

I have a hundred megs of accumulated evidence from my own research,
posting
after posting, and that of others that I have kept against the day
that
either an official investigation or a real world opinion forum would
begin.
Now I look back on this mountain and I look at all of us -- those who
know
what is at stake -- arguing about what films of aircraft show (and
I
should have taken Mike Rivero's advice and dropped the niggling over
tiny
clips -- given far too much attention because of our strong motivation
to
find a "smoking gun" that will buy the attention of the public so that
we
can show them what we really do know, the case that really is so
strong
against the frame-up.

On the 25th of October I sent to people the evidence that I had been
putting
out on the frame-up since I connected an article by Seymore Hershe in
New
Yorker Magazine on James Giffen and the grand jury trial against him
over
Kazahkstan oil and the investigation being conducted "in New York"
with the
FBI holding the grand jury evidence in offices at the World Trade
Center.
Thus began the not-so-merry chase. And with the many others the quary
has
been cornered.

But the world wants a "smoking gun" -- solution of the crime by mere
direct inspection of a video tape -- to them any other kind of a case
that
is made is merely "theory" -- and since it is a theory against
members of
the ruling elites it is "a conspiracy theory" and anyone who touches a
conspiracy theory is persona non grata and will be ignored by all
those who
"know what is good for them."

I've wasted time looking for smoking guns. All of the important
information
is already known. It must be reviewed. As I wrote in the subject of
this
letter:

Help. 911 is about economics, geopolitics, and the exposed motives of
bad
rich men caught in a frame-up. We know a lot and we need to review
it. How?

I can't resend all of the old posts to all of the usual places.

I have always wanted a real free-lance journalist to come along and
take all
this information to write the story of the century. But journalists
seem to
think that I am a journalist -- that I am a competitor -- that I
wouldn't
give anything worthwhile -- that they don't want to be tainted by
association with a "conspiracy theorist" who calls leading political
figures
of both parties murderers.

The best books are unwritten. Solved cases are treated as if they
were
unsolved, as if there was no crime. And the important and essential
is
tossed aside to make way for more of the never ending news of new
happenings --
so that we don't stay with what we know long enough to act on what we
know.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
.

Non-CFR news and analysis -- news freedom of
the press must supply for representative
democratic checks-and-balances constitution-limited
bill-of-rights republican government to work*
http://www.public-action.com
http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com Mike Rivero
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert
www.narconews.com
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com
http://www.apfn.org
http://www.antiwar.com. Justin Raimondo
---

Pentagon 911 Investigators:
"The French Site:"
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

"The British Contribution:"
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Geopolitical analysis:
http://daastol.com/EurasianGreatGame/

Non-Likud/Rothschild Pro-Humanity Mideast Viewpoint:
http://www.rense.com/Datapages/chamish.html Barry Chamish (Israeli)

http://www.MiddleEast.Org Informative,objective, but certainly not
disinterested. (Does not always recognize that Israelis
are themselves victims of psy op hate propaganda of
Likud/Rothschild,
or whatever you want to call what is behind Sharon and Mossad.)

China's War.

The Chinese Machiavelli: 3000 years of Chinese Statecraft, by Dennis
& Ching Ping Bloodworth (New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1976)

H.G. Creel, Chinese Thought from Confucius to Mao Tse-tung
(Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1953) Read the chapter on
"legalism."

A. H. Stanton-Candlin, Psycho-Chemical Warfare: The Chinesee Communist
Offensive Against the West (New Rochelle: Arlignton House, 1973)

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence.
Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without
fighting."
--Sun Tzu

New books on the shelves of bookstores highlight China's (Globalism's)
plans against us; I have not read any of these -- I am a
blind-to-the-other's-research reaches the same conclusion. Take that
conclusion seriously.

===============
> FLIGHT 77: SHOW ME THE PLANE!
> http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=19665
>
> 911 - TERROR IN AMERICA
> http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm
>
> 911 - TERROR IN AMERICA Part 2
> http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_part2.htm
>
> 911 - TERROR IN AMERICA Part 3
> http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part3.htm
>
> 911 - TERROR IN AMERICA Part 4
> http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part4.htm
>

*Actually we have a colonial debt-slave state run by a plutocratic
banking
house oligarchy with sophisticated shame pretense of all of the above
-- but
we are going to change that.

John Judge

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Mar 14, 2002, 12:42:00 PM3/14/02

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
news:9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com...

I agree with much of what you said, but at the end of the day, what *can* we
do ? For something like the 4th year on the trot now London will play host
to another May-Day mass protest, all that happens is the police get more
draconian, more liberties (such as they were) are stripped away and
frustration grows all round. No doubt this year's brave souls will be
labelled "traitors" and terrorist sympathisers by an increasingly right-wing
media.

But have these guys changed anything over the last four years ? Nothing
substantial and if the efforts of a couple of thousand energetic protesters
concentrating their efforts on a single focus point have no effect then what
chance have a few people scribbling away in newsgroups got ?

I'm sorry mate, but short of crossing a very serious line in terms of
morals, ethics and legality I can't see much point in doing much else apart
from accepting the status quo.

Ezequiel Gonzalez

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Mar 14, 2002, 5:58:50 PM3/14/02

What to do:

Organize all your material in a Website. Make copies of it in CD.
Sell them for a nominal price. Something like two dollars plus three
for "shipping and handlng." If you wish, send free copies of it to
newspapers and interested parties. Publish your website. Ask people
to make mirrors of it. Make it easy for people to download/copy and
reproduce your website...

Ezequiel Gonzalez
Webmaster, Ezekiel Online Library
http://www.ezekielonlinelibrary.com

Russell Ranshaw

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Mar 14, 2002, 6:42:31 PM3/14/02

What can we do?

Americans are unable to face the truth. If they did, they would realize that
their idea of their nation is a great lie.

Truth, Freedom, and Justice is not the American Way.

The American way is Profit, Power, Murder.

yearight

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Mar 14, 2002, 8:21:07 PM3/14/02

David,

I hear you loud and clear and feel your frustration about the major media
outlets here in America. Why after falling in love with scandalous
situations they have avoided this story is almost as inconceivable as the
atrocities themselves. The inconsistencies surrounding the failure of our
air defense, law enforcement, intelligence and all alleged events including
the official (limited sound bit driven) statements by our government
officials is the grassy knoll revisited and the message from our government
is saying the same thing.

Their unspoken words "this is the truth because we say it is and we are in
charge not you, the people, who should not question us for we know what is
best for you" is not only shocking but frightening. Imagine now after
blatantly killing the highest elected official in our great land and
delivering an obvious cover up they now have resorted to slaughtering 2800
plus people because it is in the best interest of Democracy.

Mr. Gonzalez suggestions are note worthy and should be looked into. I would
offer you encouragement in doing so and if I could ever help ask. I could
possibly give small monetary donations but my funds are limited. Perhaps I
could introduce you to some College students who are majoring in web design
that would build a web site for a minimal charge or since the topic is so
controversial and about the 800 LB gorilla free of charge. all the best.

Mr. Y
--
The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its'
determination to continue to be a world power."

- Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post,
April 1975

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
news:9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com...

NO_2675

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Mar 15, 2002, 1:03:24 AM3/15/02

Soon these Govt villians will come to judgement (greater counsel
circle of light) - hopefully sooner rather than 'too late' (of course
we could hold our breath waiting for an impeachment of the
'puppets')...

'They' can only keep bending the branch for so long, before it snaps
(ala Islam/Middle East/'terrorists'). And their power is based upon
limited resources, combined with a rapidly vanishing life-sustaining
environment. Unfortunately, the cost of their corruption will impact
upon all of *US*...

On 14 Mar 2002 08:59:42 -0800, eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman)
wrote:

Angel Elf

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Mar 15, 2002, 12:03:36 PM3/15/02

Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.

A secret like this would be impossible to keep. The press would be
all over a story like this if there were a shred of viable evidence
and there is none. Not because they see you as competition but because
there just is no story. Have you come to New York City to interview
eye witnesses like a real freelance journalist would do? Or just read
articles on the net? If you want to be real freelance journalist
you have to get out in the field and dig up the story yourself. If
there is a "smoking gun" then you will find it.

You would rather believe that major corporations, and various
departments of the US Government, planned and and executed this
plan with the help of planted bombs and remote controlled aircraft.
And why? Because of some multi level cover-up? To wage war in
Afghanistan? A conspiracy that would ruin the very corporations that
allegedly carried it out and seriously hurt the US economy, kill
thousands of innocent people and cost billions of dollars, then just
accept the fact that it was carried out by religious fanatics that want
to see America hurt.

Dick, these aircraft were hijacked by terrorists not remote controlled.
These attacks were carried out by terrorists not the US Government or
major corporations. The war in Afghanistan is justified because the
Taliban aided, supported and sheltered these terrorists. I hope that
the People of the United States and their Allies will not falter in
the quest to root out and destroy these religious fanatics all over
the planet.

eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message news:<9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com>...

> Writing to newsgroups is like writing in sand on the ocean beach. It
> is all soon lost in the ebb and flow. We don't stay with what we
> know long enough to act on what we know, to push what we know in front
> of those who don't want to hear it but need to anyway.
>
> So much has been established about the frame-up and then passed by.
> We know who did it and why. But then what? -- seeing nothing happen
> we then spent our time and effort looking for a "smoking gun" that will
> wake up people unwilling to read about Kazakhstan pipelines, Northern
> Alliance opium, the evidence and investigators on the greatest gold price
> fixing case in history that was kept on the 23rd floor of the North Tower
> on a floor that we know was bombed seperately when that tower as hit many
> floors above, (remember the 60 minutes interniew of John Tabeek, wtc
> security chief?); the evidence against Giffen and Mobil/Exxon in illegal
> oil swaps between sanctioned Iran and Kazakhstan, and the many many
> statements and actions of a government clearly anticipating war impending
> war against Afganistan and seeking to enlist the help of India and other
> nations in war against Afganistan in the months before 911 (exactly as they
> are working against Irawq right now! (except that we weren't paying
> attention then).
>
> The fact is, all of you, my fellow discussants, the case against the
> government has been proven and proven and proven. But none are so
> blind as those who will loose their jobs if they admit that they see.

> And so faced with a giant media-whore yawn and with politican stooges

> http://www.narconews.com
> http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
> http://www.truthout.com

Russell Ranshaw

unread,

Mar 15, 2002, 2:50:26 PM3/15/02

>Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.<

Face it, you have no evidence that it is what the TV tells you it is.

Eastman's scenario at least makes sense.

The terrorist attack is silly:

There was no threat made to the people of the USA.
There were no demands made.
There was no claim as to who did it.
There was no statement as to why they did it.
What did they hope to accomplish?
What did they accomplish?

Let's see.. they hate us because of our freedoms and they did it to get us
to bomb the shit out of Afghanistan? Quite a story, huh! Great reason to
die. I doubt a three year old would buy that one.

Don Ocean

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Mar 15, 2002, 3:48:00 PM3/15/02

Russell Ranshaw wrote:

> >Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
> holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.<
>
> Face it, you have no evidence that it is what the TV tells you it is.
>
> Eastman's scenario at least makes sense.

Eastman has all kinds of scenarios!! He is just feeding you the one
that you bit on.. His medications are the only things that cure his
scenarios.
This clown is known netwide for his bi-polar ramblings.... Did it
ever occur to you how much free time he has on his hands to post all this
garbage??

>
>
> The terrorist attack is silly:
>
> There was no threat made to the people of the USA.
> There were no demands made.
> There was no claim as to who did it.
> There was no statement as to why they did it.
> What did they hope to accomplish?
> What did they accomplish?
>
> Let's see.. they hate us because of our freedoms and they did it to get us
> to bomb the shit out of Afghanistan? Quite a story, huh! Great reason to
> die. I doubt a three year old would buy that one.

It was done by folks that are angry about us helping their blood
enemy....The Jewish nation of Israel. They are also not happy
about the fact we have kept oil prices from spiraling.. Matter of
fact some of the Western nations policies have badly damaged opecs
power structure. Also ...Kill a Christian , go to Heaven...Weird stuff,
But dangerous. There are thousands of statements as to why it would
be and did happen. Ah yes ..the Marquis of Queensbury rules...
Remember Pearl harbor...No warning!! To hold those people
together requires a common enemy.... Guess who??

Russell Ranshaw

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Mar 15, 2002, 6:44:52 PM3/15/02

<Eastman has all kinds of scenarios!! ...

I never said Eastman was correct. Only that he makes sense. What we see on
TV doesn't. Cause it ain't the true story.

<It was done by folks that are angry about us helping their blood
enemy....The Jewish nation of Israel. <

Why didn't they tell us this so we could get our government to stop doing
what makes them angry? Would Americans want the govt to continue to support
Israel if they knew it would result in 911?

>They are also not happy about the fact we have kept oil prices from
spiraling.. Matter of
fact some of the Western nations policies have badly damaged opecs
power structure. <

Nonsense! The suicide bomber doesn't give a shit about oil prices!

>Also ...Kill a Christian , go to Heaven...Weird stuff, But dangerous. <

Maybe true but no need to go so far from home and to kill so many to get the
reward.

>There are thousands of statements as to why it would
be and did happen. <

Not made by the supposed terrorists to the people under attack! The only
statements we hear are the ones our leaders make up.

>Ah yes ..the Marquis of Queensbury rules...
Remember Pearl harbor...No warning!! <

The US gov't knew it was coming. They had Japan backed into a corner. It was
only the people who didn't know it was coming. And it wasn't a terrorist
attack. It was an act of war.

>To hold those people together requires a common enemy.... Guess who??<

To hold Americans together requires a common enemy... Guess who???

Mr Y

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Mar 15, 2002, 7:01:11 PM3/15/02

"Angel Elf" <Ange...@AngelFire.com> wrote in message
news:97651508.02031...@posting.google.com...

> Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
> holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.
>
> A secret like this would be impossible to keep. The press would be
> all over a story like this if there were a shred of viable evidence
> and there is none.

Understand what the definition of conspiracy is and then start over again.
Now unless there is a complete and thorough investigation of statements and
facts the truth can not come out. The secrets and lies can not be exposed.
Furthermore was the press all over the strange inconsistencies of JFK's
Assassination? This is the grassy knoll all over again minus the official
commission assigned to cover it up.

Not because they see you as competition but because
> there just is no story. Have you come to New York City to interview
> eye witnesses like a real freelance journalist would do? Or just read
> articles on the net? If you want to be real freelance journalist
> you have to get out in the field and dig up the story yourself. If
> there is a "smoking gun" then you will find it.

You mean this is not a safe story for America in general. What questions has
anybody asked about inconsistencies in the limited official line. The
government has been allowed by the media to be selective with their release
of information, supply misinformation of facts, use deceptive and deflective
answers to legitimate questions without any further pressing. They (media)
have taken the position of patriots by not questioning these peculiar,
incomplete, and farfetched statements with no serious follow up questions.

It is very difficult to find smoking guns in conspiracies if no one is
investigating it . I do not speak of Congressional Investigations either but
they were all the same requested to limit their investigation surrounding
9/11 because it would drain resources and take away from bringing those
responsible to justice. Yet we now have a calling for an investigation of an
agency (INS)who apparently was following its normal procedures. I would
think this is an important act, but it should not be the number one priority
against a full investigation of the complete failure of our Air Defense
system that allowed a 75% success rate of an alleged terrorist attack on
America by a genius evil-doer of comic book proportions.

> You would rather believe that major corporations, and various

> departments of the US Government, planned and executed this

> plan with the help of planted bombs and remote controlled aircraft.
> And why?

Read Brzezinski "The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and its
Geostrategic Imperatives". It will explain everything including what would
be needed to get the American people to support the unspoken agenda.

>Because of some multi level cover-up?

If there is no cover-up why was the investigation into 9/11 discouraged?
Does one who blindly believe in their government regardless of its track
record? These could be considered nut jobs with the history of our
government.

To wage war in
> Afghanistan? A conspiracy that would ruin the very corporations that
> allegedly carried it out and seriously hurt the US economy, kill
> thousands of innocent people and cost billions of dollars, then just
> accept the fact that it was carried out by religious fanatics that want
> to see America hurt.

Ruined corporations, hurt the economy? What corporations have been ruined?
If directly effected by the attacks isn't the insurance industry picking up
the immediate tab. No corporations were hurt including the insurance
industry which will offset things with charging higher premiums to
customers, you and I. The economy is on track regardless of the attacks and
Wall Street is back up to its over inflated status. Some companies actually
benefited in the market greatly because these attacks.

I ask you to rethink your views about the people behind 9/11 after what I
just stated. What is more absurd, the Governments involvement to ensure the
people support the underlying geostrategic imperatives some think is
necessary (for a wacky outcome) or the evil-doer genius of comic book
proportions that surprised and confused our government and civil defense
systems so badly that they just didn't function properly or at all? Sober
thinking does not choose the latter when viewing things rationally.
Americans should have no problem supporting our government in exterminating
dangerous individuals or sects. They should however not support the
government in the slaughter of citizens under the guise of terrorists to
promote their not widely known agenda that is still not being hammered
through by unpatriotic media outlets. Read the book then we can discuss if
you still think it unconscionable.

>
> Dick, these aircraft were hijacked by terrorists not remote controlled.

Do you have incontrovertible facts? Where have you obtained these facts? Do
you claim that UMA are science fiction and the technology hasn't been
successful? Are you aware many years ago the Air Force flew an unmanned
aircraft from Dulles to Australia perfectly and without incident? Are you
aware that one of the boasts about this technology by our government was
that if a jetliner was highjacked that it could take over the controls and
land the plane where it wanted to? A serious deterrent for the highjackers
success was claimed.Why have all traffic controllers been prevented from
speaking to the media? Could they provide more of a stench to this stink?
Absolutely!

> These attacks were carried out by terrorists not the US Government or
> major corporations.

I ask you again bring something to the discussion to help your claims. Past
or present events or statements by government officials.

The war in Afghanistan is justified because the
> Taliban aided, supported and sheltered these terrorists.

If this is the case lets just bomb the hell out of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,
Egypt, Iran, Syria, Iraq and what the hell, CIA headquarters. All of these
have done what you have claimed the Taliban have done.
The difference is the geopolitical imperatives that Afgnanistan holds and
not terrorists.

I hope that
> the People of the United States and their Allies will not falter in
> the quest to root out and destroy these religious fanatics all over
> the planet.

Yes but there are evil-doers in Washington that also need to be rooted out
and destroyed.

Mr Y

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Mar 15, 2002, 7:40:25 PM3/15/02

"Don Ocean" <oc...@amerion.com> wrote in message
news:3C925E00...@amerion.com...

So you are claiming the genius evil-doers of comic book proportions didn't
highjack a jet some hours earlier to crash into Tel Aviv around the same
time they were rendering our civil defense systems inept and its personnel a
bunch of bumbling fools? After all they are the blood enemies and we only
help them.

C'mon my good man! Sober thinking id critical.

Mr. Y.

The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its'
determination to continue to be a world power."

- Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post,
April 1975

JimFor

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Mar 15, 2002, 10:43:29 PM3/15/02

>. I do not speak of Congressional >Investigations either but
>they were all the same requested to limit >their investigation surrounding
>9/11 because it would drain resources >and take away from bringing those
>responsible to justice.

Huh? How draining can it be? Didn't the US conduct an investigation of the
attack on Pearl Harbor at the same time it was busy fighting World War II?
According to the following web page, there were NINE investigations, all
conducted during or shortly after WWII.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/invest.html

The Knox Investigation 1941
The Roberts Commission 1941
The Hart Investigation 1944
The Army Pearl Harbor Board 1944
The Navy Court of Inquiry 1944
The Clarke Investigation 1944
The Clausen Investigation 1945
The Hewitt Inquiry 1945
The Joint Congressional Committee 1945-46

Larry W. Jewell

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Mar 16, 2002, 7:49:01 AM3/16/02

jim...@aol.comNOSPAM (JimFor) wrote in message news:<20020315224329...@mb-dd.aol.com>...

> >. I do not speak of Congressional >Investigations either but
> >they were all the same requested to limit >their investigation surrounding
> >9/11 because it would drain resources >and take away from bringing those
> >responsible to justice.
>
> Huh? How draining can it be? Didn't the US conduct an investigation of the
> attack on Pearl Harbor at the same time it was busy fighting World War II?
> According to the following web page, there were NINE investigations, all
> conducted during or shortly after WWII.
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/invest.html

Glad you liked it.

During the war:

> The Knox Investigation 1941
> The Roberts Commission 1941
> The Hart Investigation 1944
> The Army Pearl Harbor Board 1944
> The Navy Court of Inquiry 1944
> The Clarke Investigation 1944
> The Clausen Investigation 1945
> The Hewitt Inquiry 1945

Post war (Started Nov. 15, 1945):

> The Joint Congressional Committee 1945-46

The Congressional Investigation was the only large-scale inquiry,
apparently for the news reel cameras. The others involved no more
than a few people at a time. I don't think there were ever a dozen
people in the room at any sitting. They were supposed to do their job
without interferring with the war effort. One was specifically meant
to get information from people who might be killed before the war
ended.

Just a little more info.

Larry J

Mr Y

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Mar 16, 2002, 11:45:35 AM3/16/02

"JimFor" <jim...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20020315224329...@mb-dd.aol.com...

> >. I do not speak of Congressional >Investigations either but
> >they were all the same requested to limit >their investigation
surrounding
> >9/11 because it would drain resources >and take away from bringing those
> >responsible to justice.
>
> Huh? How draining can it be? Didn't the US conduct an investigation of
the
> attack on Pearl Harbor at the same time it was busy fighting World War II?
> According to the following web page, there were NINE investigations, all
> conducted during or shortly after WWII.
>

That is a great example of what I was claiming. Bush and Cheney didn't want
to much time spend if any at all surrounding the evnts of 9/11 and the
damage caused by the apparent breakdown of our civil defense from the
evil-doer. It also shows that freedom of press is no longer alive in
America. Why this request exposed by the media for what it is. Obstruction.
Why have they not been screaming and digging for all the facts? They have
been asked to not focus on it but to focus now on the war on terror.

A "B" movie actress was on TV last night claiming that when she was flying
back and forth from the US and Great Britian during the Gulf War she was
amazed in the difference in coverage. She claimed that the US media
delivered the war like it was some movie with dramatic patriotic music
before and after the sound bites and commercials. She then stated that she
learned more about what really was going on from the BBC news in 15 minutes
than from watching US news in 8 hours.

Mr. Y

--
The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its’
determination to continue to be a world power."

- Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post,
April 1975

MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE

unread,

Mar 16, 2002, 3:21:05 PM3/16/02

"Mr Y" wrote:
>"JimFor" wrote in message

>> > I do not speak of Congressional Investigations either but
>> >they were all the same requested to limit
>> >their investigation surrounding
>> >9/11 because it would drain resources >and take away from bringing those
>> >responsible to justice.
>>
>> Huh? How draining can it be? Didn't the US conduct an investigation of the
>> attack on Pearl Harbor at the same time it was busy fighting World War II?
>> According to the following web page, there were NINE investigations, all
>> conducted during or shortly after WWII.
>
>That is a great example of what I was claiming. Bush and Cheney didn't want
>to much time spend if any at all surrounding the evnts of 9/11 and the
>damage caused by the apparent breakdown of our civil defense from the
>evil-doer. It also shows that freedom of press is no longer alive in
>America. Why this request exposed by the media for what it is. Obstruction.
>Why have they not been screaming and digging for all the facts? They have
>been asked to not focus on it but to focus now on the war on terror.

And when the obviousness of the truth shows that
causality of the events surrounding 9/11 all point to Clinton,
of appeasement to Deliberately Evil Men, what then?

What will it accomplish when objective fact is rejected
under the necessary illusion of the real-politic?
(especially when it has nothing to do with it)

Should one's loyalty belong to anything but the truth?

Is it a sacrifice to oppose the duplicity which is destroying a future worth having?
or is it only considered a sacrifice to those willing to settle for less?
and if so, where does their loyalty lie?

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 16, 2002, 5:26:03 PM3/16/02

You poetic convoluted shill. Leave your Shakespearean crap in the proper
news group.

Mr. Y
--
The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its’
determination to continue to be a world power."

- Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post,
April 1975

"MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE" <ExPre...@au.revoir.gov> wrote in message
news:RONk8.24693$Vx1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 17, 2002, 5:28:38 AM3/17/02

"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:<IAak8.1270$r_1.1...@read2.cgocable.net>...

Hello Russell Ranshaw.

While there is much truth in what you say, are you not overlooking the
indications that, given his "in sinc" performance with Bush, Tony
Blair and much of your own leadership, LAbour and Tory, are "in thick"
with all that the Bush Administration is doing, and perhaps more to
the point, with all that The City and Wall Street are doing together?

I believe you said that I lack evidence. That I have only "scenarios"
-- which are indeed "models" (what science uses) and "theories" what
detectives and all that investigators of any subject must use? At any
rate, what do you think of the following as hard evidence?

Subject: The Pentagon 911 Deception is the Fatal Mistake of
Globalization Crime Syndicate
---------------------------------------------------------------------

If there was no airliner involved in the Pentagon attack, then it
would be impossible for the Secretary of Defense, the Assistant
Secretary of Defense, the Vice President and the President of the
United States not to know about it.

Look at the following sequence of stills of the attack on the
Pentagon released by the Defense Department and you will see THE
PROFILE OF A JET FIGHTER -- NOTICE THE VERTICAL STABALIZER ABOVE THE
PILLAR, notice the raised cockpit. Presumably this plane was flown
by remote control using cruise missile technology or other technology
that has existed in crude form since the Air Force developed remote
control drone fighters for missile target practice decades ago (and we
have seen application of such technology in the Gulf War, the Balkans
and in Afganistan). NOTICE TOO IN THE FIRST FRAME THE WHITE TRAIL OF A
MISSILE BEING FIRED INTO THE PENTAGON JUST SECONDS BEFORE THE JET IS
TO HIT. Clearly the missile is fired to break up the wall to permit
the jet and its own explosive cargo (probably a napalm bomb or a
modern equivalent) to do its killing job on the offices of Naval
Intelligence housed in the target area.

------------------
To see the Pentagon attack sequence

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

(If this site is down, e-mail me for a hotmail copy of this page with
visuals included.)
-----------------

Witnesses said they saw a small plane -- that is until this until the
above video evidence begtan to circulate -- then suddenly witnesses
were appearing everywhere -- but none that are tracable -- none that
exist. And Mike Rivero -- who in the past has asked me to distribute
material on the internet that he himself was afraid to distribute on
his www.whatreallyhappened.com site is suddenly telling everyone to
forget the Pentagon.

Also witnesses claim that they saw the jet hit the ground and bounce
into the building, but the video above captures what really happened.
The firing of the missile under the wing is being mistaken for a
collision on the ground.

Clearly an airliner of the type that the Defense Department claims hit
the Pentagon is much too big for the hole that the actual aircraft
made and much too big to be mistaken for the much smaller
fighter-bomber caught by the Defense Department's own video camera.
See for yourself:

------------------
To see the Pentagon wreckage from two angles with the silhouette of a
Boeing 757:

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

If this site is down, e-mail me for a hotmail copy of this page with
all visuals included --
eas...@compwrx.com )
-----------------

The Pentagon 911 Deception is the Fatal Mistake of Criminal
Globalization Crime Syndicate Or at least it should be.

Now look at this:

http://www.ar.utexas.edu/Staff/White/wwnl.html

Vision TV in Canada just did a 6 part documentary of Bush-CIA and
9-11 & their purposes. (BANNED IN US)
http://www.visiontv.ca/programs/insight/mediafile_Jan21.htm

"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing
but an
act of murder."
--Albert Einstein

Also here is a Congressional speech by Republican TX Ron Paul saying
terrorist war is a farce and not to believe Bush. He sites the French
Intelligence Book: Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth (Banned in US) as a
source. He is in the Copvica video also. Also.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr112901.htm

A second One is at www.copvicia.com . Three Congress people are in
this video claiming 9/11 is inside job. Valid questions are for the
healthy & necessary: not "conspiracy theories". When the facts don't
add up & the story is ludicrous. Barbara Lee, Cynthia McKinney House
of Representatives (Democrat) and Ron Paul House of Rep. Republican TX
are both in the copvcia video and do not buy the official story. This
video details that Bush-CIA are responsible for 9-11.

-----Terror as a Tool of Mass Persuasion: CIA Psychological Operation
Tool

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger."

Reichsmarschal Hermann Goering, Nazi Air Force (Luftwaffe) commander,
the Nuremberg Trials

Nazis used the Reichstag fire to inflame & terrorize the population
and to unite the people against the enemy. 9/11 is America's Reichstag
Fire to raid the American Treasury and involve us in oil Wars for the
Caspian Sea Basin -pipe line across Afghanistan. Neither would have
happened without 9/11.

There are many documentaries out that review Bush-CIA involvement.

There is a 140 Page Legal Quality Report that shows conclusively that
US Gov. involved in terrorist attacks. (Banned in US). Available for
free copying from Australia.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0202/S00079.htm

Part2
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0203/S00098.htm

35 page Report on 9/11 Problems Michael Rowbotham: We Must Do
Something Now or Good Bye Democracy. (What's Left of it: It's Really
Cash & Carry Bribes Now by Corporations)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0110/S00021.htm

the TENC.NET analysis of 911 (see also...part 2 and part 3)
San Francisco Presents Petition to Senator Feinstein in California
showing 9/11 Official Version a Farce: Extensive Documentation from
highly placed research sources & officials.

http://www.communitycurrency.org/9-11.html

Take a look at these photographs and try to find evidence to
corroborate
the official version of the Pentagon & Flight 77. It's up to you to
Hunt the Boeing!
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

1) Bush-CIA Involvement in 9/11 going Mainstream in Canada (Vancouver
Sun News Paper)
http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/archives/story.asp?id=DCC82857-AA3C-41FB-997D-EDA05CC774E3

2) Saudi denounces US agenda behind bombing campaign (21/01/2002)
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/21/world/world4.html

A senior Saudi Arabian former diplomat has charged the United States
with seeking to control Afghanistan and contain Pakistan's nuclear
program and Iran, as speculation grows that Washington could lose its
most vital Arab support base. (...) "If the United States had wanted
to arrest bin Laden, they could have done so easily without taking the
trouble to launch this fanciful war ... they could have caught

3) German Defense Minister Implicates Bush
http://france.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=9676

Historical Precedents: Hitler had Reichstagg Fire set to scapegoat the
Jews & get the Germans to give up their Constitution. CIA Planned to
attack Americans in 1962 & blame Cubans to give a pretext for
attacking Cuba. 100's of other examples: this is a very common trick
of tyrants.
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2839operation_northwds.html

http://www.ar.utexas.edu/Staff/White/terrorism.html

As Reported in Newsweek Cheney asks Daschle Not to investigate 9/11.
Hmmmmmmmmm.

http://www.hypocrites.com/article.php?sid=2980

Bush Involvement: Activist Kit
http://www.radicalpress.com/news/activistskit.htmGov Insiders starting
to come forward.

GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT IN 9-11 GOOD RESEARCH at these links:

http://www.island.net/~lbnews/ Click on 9-11 Files

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ ONE OF THE BEST

http://www.visiontv.ca/programs/insight/mediafile_Jan21.htm

http://www.public-action.com/911/bumble.html Explains discrepancies in
the Bogus
Official Version. Most detailed explanation.

http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm
http://globalresistance.com/index.html
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.rense.com
http://www.copvcia.com
http://www.Public-Action.com
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
http://daastol.com/EurasianGreatGame/
http://chicago.indymedia.org
http://www.ecologynews.com/cuenews43updates2.html

About 50 REAL NEWS sites --Non Propaganda are listed at this link.

http://www.willpitt.com/NewsPage.htm

These FIVE Are Especially Good: unbiased, factual. We now have a
mainstream propaganda Media Stalin would have envied. Owned by Bush
-Corporate supporters.
http://www.island.net/~lbnews/ Click on 9-11 Files and then arrow to
choose many articles and sites.

http://www.indymedia.org
Independent News

www.americanpolitics.com

www.truthout.com
www.buzzflash.com

happening.

Bush Nazi Connections: Extensive Search Web

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Archive/Bush/Binion122100/binion122100.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Archive/Bush/Binion121900/binion121900.html

ANTHRAX COVERUP: CIA Responsible. Scientists have announced US
Intelligence Services responsible for Anthrax. Media not covering:
when Clinton's zipper all over media. You need to ask what is going
on. Anthrax cover up. The latest is burial of reports that the Anthrax
mailings originated with the CIA or Intelligence officials and the FBI
is covering it up according to Barbara Rosenberg of the Federation of
American Scientists

http://www.nj.com/mercer/times/index.ssf?/mercer/times/02-19-IZAR1IUB.html
.
http://www.rense.com/general18/fbim.htm

What Europe is Really Saying about the Bush Coup: The Guardian UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/0,7368,417857,00.html

Free Speech TV: World Imperiled by Bush
http://www.freespeech.org/ terrifying what is really happening. You
can order a satellite dish here to get real news or maybe you already
get their channel.

Real News from Afghanistan
http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/afghanistan/AmericanHypocrisy.html

The Terror of Politics & Mass Persuasion: What is Really Going On.
Terrorist Alerts are Fake.

http://www.cam.net.uk/home/nimmann/peace/revelation.htm

Bush Crime Family History: Bush Family Property Confiscated in WWII
for aiding Nazis. Barbara Bush is currently the Ambassador for America
Cares. AmeriCares is a CIA front that supports rightwing military
operations while posing as a humanitarian group. Many former Nazis
snuck into America &went into the CIA.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Archive/Bush/Binion121900/binion121900.html

Bush Nazi Connections: Extensive Search Web with Key words Bush,
Fascist Nazis--you'll get 10,000 hits. The corporate media hounded
Clinton because they wanted a CIA-Plutocrat in that would burden the
common man with taxes, Pollution clean up, and to start a war for
their oil-military machine.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Archive/Bush/Binion122100/binion122100.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Archive/Bush/Binion121900/binion121900.html

CIA & CNN Work Together to Write the News:

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/cnn.htm The CIA is writing the News. More
bad News.
Motive: Bush & 9/11

1) Afghanistan Pipeline: Cheney & Bush are the Oil Industry. Cheney's
Company Halliburton is the biggest Oil Company in the World. The "Oil
Cabinet" stories reported in mainly foreign papers: where Bush doesn't
control propaganda. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1138000/1138009.stm
http://www.literalpolitics.com/

2) Defense contracts Carlyle-(Bush & Bin Laden family's company)

3) Politics of Mass Persuasion: Terror, scape-goating, & hysteria used
by Hitler & other tyrants. Hitler used Reichstag Fire to get German
people to give up their civil rights & constitution.

4) Popularity for a very unpopular-coup president so that he could
give $$$ away to rich supporters. 45% of 1.4 trillion went to 1% most
wealthy. If 9-11 had not happened the Democrats and people would be up
in arms at the stolen election & treasury giveaway. Civil Rights
Commission announced Bush blocked blacks from voting by culling voters
in several states in 10/01 --particularly Florida. This was swept
under rug due to attacks.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/111201a.html Also the Democratic
Housewife that designed the Notorious butterfly ballot that led to
confusion...turns out to not be a so typical Southern Housewife....
she is a former girlfriend of Al Kasshoggi a Saudia Arabian Plutocrat
with extensive CIA & Republican Contacts. Convenient. This was set to
come out before 9-11. Why isn't the media covering this? Because
Bush-CIA-Mafia own & control our propaganda media. Right now Bush
trying to shove through "stimulus bill" for "workers". The problem is
95% of this goes to wealthy and republicans have tied unemployment
benefits extension to it and it is a farce. Daschle & Democrats have
blocked it. Bush on TV lying saying Democrats working against workers.
Unprecedented increase in defense budget & $ giveaway to wealthy means
there will be NO SOCIAL SECURITY when boomers start to retire in 10
years.

5) Investigation of Cheney's Energy Committee: Composed of Oil Thugs.
If 9-11 had not happened People would be screaming at his violation of
the constitution. General Accounting Office has sued for the records
(Congressional oversight of the Executive Branch is part of the
Constitution & Law). Cheney unprecedented defying: dictatorship for
the coup. John Dean of Watergate fame states that "unless we have
another aberrant ruling like Gore vs. Bush (2000 election) Cheney will
have too turn over Energy Committee notes. What do these notes say?
Plans for bombing Afghanistan since Spring 2001?

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20020201.htmlhttp://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/

Operation Northwood: CIA Planned to Blow up American ship/ other
American assets in 1962 so people would think Cubans had done it, as
they desperately wanted a war with Cuba but could not start it without
pretense. Kennedy prevented the CIA from doing so. The boys from
Dallas killed him. George Herbert Walker was a high ranking CIA member
in Dallas at the time.

http://www.copvcia.com/stories/nov_2001/operation_northwoods.html

And Just When You Thought You Couldn't Take Any More Corruption!
$731 million & US Troops to go to Columbia for éDrug Waré: This drug
War Is to build & protect an oil pipeline for Occidental Petroleum
Company and to massacre and subvert the poor people and their
fledgling attempts at freedom & democracy from OIL THUG government
---Oligarch Rich Plutocrats oppressing the poor (Just like here at
home!)

http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=140179&group=webcast

> Entire military is going to be probed back through Reagan by huge Congressional staffs. UNPRECEDENTED!!!!! (UPDATE: Only problem is CIA is phoning bomb threats into Senate Investigation Meetings: Could skew results).

> > http://www.msnbc.com/news/705142.asp?pne=msn

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success
unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly...it must
confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."
--Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister

Belinda
"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing
but an
act of murder."
--Albert Einstein

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com.

Ethic

unread,

Mar 17, 2002, 12:34:30 PM3/17/02

The Dreadful Imposture
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/03/118668.php
The US Authorities have tried to make believe that the
dammage caused to the Pentagon, on September 11,
2001 was caused by the crash of a hijacked Boeing
airliner on the building. This lie was meant to hide the
fact that a bombing attack was in fact carried out by
a group of people who had authorized access to the
Pentagon and that the target was not the Departement
of Defense in general but the new Navy Command Center.

The US authorities have also lied in order to hide the
existence of a secret CIA base within the World Trade
Center and its illegal activities. But most of all they have
put great efforts into concealing the negotiations carried
out between George Bush and the conjurors on September
11, as well as the agreement that was reached on that day.
With the help of their hired agent, Osama Bin Laden, they
have channeled the sadness and the anger of the US public opinion towards
foreign scapegoats.

In his book "L'Effroyable imposture" (The Dreadful
Imposture), Thierry Meyssan reveals the secrets behind
9-11. He analyses the power shift within the US political establishment and
the rocketing of the military expenses.
He denounces the hidden agenda behind the war in
Afghanistan and the secret aims of the "War on Terrorism".
A must read if you want to understand where the US
leadership is leading its country.

Dick Eastman wrote a message
<9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com>...

"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:<IAak8.1270$r_1.1...@read2.cgocable.net>...
> What can we do?
> Americans are unable to face the truth. If they did,
> they would realize that their idea of their nation is a
> great lie.
> Truth, Freedom, and Justice is not the American Way.
> The American way is Profit, Power, Murder.

Hello Russell Ranshaw.
While there is much truth in what you say, are you not
overlooking the indications that, given his "in sinc"
performance with Bush, Tony Blair and much of your
own leadership, LAbour and Tory, are "in thick" with all
that the Bush Administration is doing, and perhaps more
to the point, with all that The City and Wall Street are
doing together ?

I believe you said that I lack evidence. That I have only
"scenarios" -- which are indeed "models" (what science
uses) and "theories" what detectives and all that

investigators of any subject must use ? At any

Ethic

unread,

Mar 17, 2002, 3:24:55 PM3/17/02

Where is flight 77 ???

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror

"I took these pictures seconds after I saw the "plane"
crash into pentagon. I was heading towards 395 on
route 27 when the "plane" crossed my path about
100ft ahead and crashed into the side of the pentagon".
Steve Riskus
Steve...@aol.com
sxes...@aol.com
AIM: youthenraged
+1 703 856 1855 (nextel phone)
+1 703 333 6705 (work)
+1 703 313 9209 (home)

COMMENT :
We should ask this guy. Where is flight 77 ?
Did you REALLY see a BOEING into the
Pentagone ? And not only the Boeings who
where waiting (circle) over Washington ...
It's personal and collective hallucinations on
the 911. People were listening to radio stations.
They knew what was going on in NYC, they
knew that 4 more planes were missing (which
turned to be, officially, 2 more missing planes)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Where is Flight # 77 ?
One day the U.S. Government may have to say
the truth.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On September 11 occurred an event without
preceding on which it is nevertheless extremely
difficult to lead a work of journalistic investigation.
Any inquiry emitting doubts on the official version
is considered with disgust.
Since September 11, the Voltaire network tries,
nevertheless, to put in light what really happened
and how it reorganized the international balance
of powers.
http://www.reseauvoltaire.net
This site proposes independent inquiries.
Certain files are available only by subscription,
because only your support allows us to realize
this work.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

In his book "L'Effroyable Imposture" (The Dreadful

Imposture), Thierry Meyssan reveals the secrets
behind 9-11. He analyses the power shift within the

U.S. political establishment and the rocketing of the

military expenses. He denounces the hidden agenda
behind the war in Afghanistan and the secret aims
of the "War on Terrorism".
A "must read" if you want to understand where the

U.S. leadership is leading its country.

The Dreadful Imposture

The U.S. Authorities have tried to make us to

believe that the dammage caused to the Pentagon,
on September 11, 2001 was caused by the crash
of a hijacked Boeing airliner on the building.

This lie was meant to hide the fact that a bombing
attack was in fact carried out by a group of people
who had authorized access to the Pentagon and

that the target was not the Department of Defense
(in general) but the new U.S. Navy Command Center.

The U.S. authorities have also lied in order to hide

the existence of a secret CIA base within the World

Trade Center and its illegal (financial) activities.

But most of all, the U.S. authorities have put great

efforts into concealing the negotiations carried out
between George Bush and the conjurors on September
11, as well as the agreement that was reached on that
day.

With the help of their hired agent, Osama Bin Laden,
they have channeled the sadness and the anger of

the U.S. public opinion towards foreign scapegoats
(fall guy).

http://www.reseauvoltaire.net

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 18, 2002, 8:23:20 AM3/18/02

Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02031...@posting.google.com>...

> Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
> holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.

Well, Ms. Elf, its like this: The Defense Department released their
video, and their video shows a fighter shooting a missile into the
Pentagon before it crashes.
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif
Here you see the fighter/bomber and the white trail of the missile in
the enlargement provided by (originally sceptical) David Boesankoe of
the U.K.
Now, Elf, the debate is all over -- the Bush Administration story is
on the shelf with the flat Earth and with the martians of Orsen
Welles' 1938 radio "news-broadcast" dramatized "War of the Worlds"
invasion of NYC.

And if you question the evidence Boesankoe presents, you yourself can
take the Defense Department's released video and relpicate Boesankoe's
results; he tells us how, as follows:
Boesankoe: I would like to tell you how to reproduce the enlargement
that I made of the Pentagon crash pictures at:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/720851.asp?cp1=1

since I noticed that some comments on the Usenet that I had faked or
altered
the images in the animation I made at :-

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

I don't have macromedia editors installed, but have the plug'ins for
my
browser. So what I did was copy the Flash files from my internet cache
folder.

These were : f_020307_pentagon.swf and f_020307_pentagonaudio.swf

I copied these into a separate folder and executed
f_020307_pentagon.swf in
my browser (IE6). This opens the file with access to a number of
different
Flash functions which can be accessed by right clicking on the image.
Immediately, the image is larger than it was on the NBC page as the
Flash
plug'in stretches to fill the browser window. (I have Flash Player 5
installed)

Now, by right clicking on the image you get a pull down menu from
which you
can 'Zoom In', 'Zoom Out' and use Macromedia's 'Quality' functions.
The
Quality function does pixel interpolation and by default is on. Switch
it
off to make a comparison.

You can go 'Forward', 'Back' and 'Rewind' through the Flash animation
(without having to listen to the voice-over.

All I did was copy each frame using the 'Print Screen' key on my
keyboard
and pasted them into a photo editing program where I applied a
contrast
enhance function. Then I saved each frame as a bitmap and imported
them into
an animation program where they were lined up and cropped to save on
download time.

So any criticism of my animation should either be levelled at NBC for
hosting the original images in the form that they chose. Any alleged
doctoring of the images was either done by them or by the source that
they
obtained their images from.

David Bosankoe, BSc.

And of course, Ms. Elf, there is the immediately
obvious-through-direct- inspection fact that the hole made in the side
of the Pentagon was much too small for the Boeing 757 as the French
have shown by imposeing a drawn-to-scale 757 silhouette over a
front-view and over a from-above (satellite) view of the attack site.
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

> A secret like this would be impossible to keep.

Yes, you are right on this one -- despite the efforts of the elves,
the secret could not be kept, could it?

> The press would be all over a story like this if there
> were a shred of viable evidence and there is none.

I used to live in that world, Elf. As the old song goes,
"I'd give a million tomorrows for just one yesterday."
And I suspect you don't really live there either any more,
not really. Honestly, do you?

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 18, 2002, 8:38:19 AM3/18/02

Russell Ranshaws adamantine points stand alone as effectively as
Boesankoe's visual proofs.

Here is further supporting evidence from every quarter:

University of Texas Adds News Service: Denouncing Whitehouse Planning
of
9/11 to Get an Oil War for the Afghanistan Pipeline & $$$ for the
Oil-Military Complex (which happens to include the largest Weapons
Dealer in
the World the Bush-Bin Laden Arms Company Carlyle). Another
Coincidence.
Also to institute a police state & shred our
Constitution.

http://www.ar.utexas.edu/Staff/White/wwnl.html

Vision TV in Canada just did a 6 part documentary of Bush-CIA and
9-11 &
their purposes. (BANNED IN US)
http://www.visiontv.ca/programs/insight/mediafile_Jan21.htm

"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing
but an
act of murder."
--Albert Einstein

Also here is a Congressional speech by Republican TX Ron Paul saying
terrorist war is a farce and not to believe Bush. He sites the French
Intelligence Book: Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth (Banned in US) as a
source. He is in the Copvica video also. Also.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr112901.htm

A second One is at www.copvicia.com . Three Congress people are in
this

"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing
but an
act of murder."
--Albert Einstein

=========================

"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:<lhsk8.304$i6.1...@read1.cgocable.net>...

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 19, 2002, 12:50:35 AM3/19/02

Don Ocean <oc...@amerion.com> wrote in message news:<3C925E00...@amerion.com>...

> Eastman has all kinds of scenarios!! He is just feeding you the one
> that you bit on.. His medications are the only things that cure his
> scenarios.
> This clown is known netwide for his bi-polar ramblings.... Did it
> ever occur to you how much free time he has on his hands to post all this
> garbage??

> It was done by folks that are angry about us helping their blood

> enemy....The Jewish nation of Israel. They are also not happy
> about the fact we have kept oil prices from spiraling.. Matter of
> fact some of the Western nations policies have badly damaged opecs
> power structure. Also ...Kill a Christian , go to Heaven...Weird stuff,
> But dangerous. There are thousands of statements as to why it would
> be and did happen. Ah yes ..the Marquis of Queensbury rules...
> Remember Pearl harbor...No warning!! To hold those people
> together requires a common enemy.... Guess who??

I look for the testable hypothesis, the one that accounts for the
observations and does not end in contradictions. To think in terms of
theatrical and ascientific "scenarios" -- a detective does not
script a crime, he solves a case by subjecting each possible
explanation to tests against the implications of known facts. (And
the time I take from earning an income and performing the duties of
husband and father (note the late hour of most of my postings --
daytime for you on Greenwhich time, but I am on the other side of the
world!)may be an indication of the importance I attach to uncovering
the frame-up, but the time spent in no way discredits the discussion
(in fact friends emplore me to spend more time proofing what I write
-- which I cannot justify my commitments -- so I thank you for not
attacking my spelling and sentence construction, old Top.

Now it so happens that the governments account does not stand up in
the face of what we know. Here is the lastest wrinkle -- proving that
a Boeing 757 could not have been responsible for the Pentagon
destruction. Read this and then you tell me, Don Ocean, which is a
defensible theory that fits the known facts and what is a mere spun
"scenario" to fool an audience and cover-up a murder.

Pentagon attack -- 757 airliner in first-floor-level horizontal
approach could not have squeezed between three-story high street
lamposts.

First observe from the security video released by the Defense
Department, how the attacking jet approached horizontally at
first-floor level. (note also that this is a fighter jet and that it
is firing a missile that leaves a white trail.)

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Now look at these scenes taken from the street straight across the
lawn from the explosion :

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010015.JPG How did the plane
get past these street lamp posts?

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010016.JPG Boeing 757 could
not have passed between these lamposts as the Defense Department
security video shows that the attacking plane, flying in horizontally
at first-floor level obviously did.

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010017.JPG

There is no fig leaf remaining to those who play dumb about the
frame-up crime.

But Don Ocean is right -- I do take time from my family and I do
post all over, and I have had the temerity to suggest solutions when
confronted with my own country that has been hijacked by criminals.
You claim that I have my solution and them I made up the "scenario" to
require the solution that I am after. How curious that you,Don Ocean,
of all people, would accuse me of being part of such a "scenario."

Are you capable of coming to grips with the data? Or do you yourself
use scenarios like a drunk uses a lampost -- more for support than for
illumination?

Angel Elf

unread,

Mar 19, 2002, 1:04:41 AM3/19/02

Ask yourself the same questions but replace the terrorist with the
United States Government and major Corporations, that is silly.
Were there any threats made against the US Embassys in Africa?
Were there any threats against the USS Cole? I suppose those attacks
were carried out by the United States Government? I don't think so.
Who attacked the WTC the first time with a bomb in a rented truck?

What they accomplished, by attacking symbols of American power, is
that the U.S. is vulnerable to attack and to kill as many people as
possible. The first bombing was supposed to topple one tower into
the other and kill thousands of people.

If you read the news and the polls that were taken in the Muslim world
you will see how much they do hate the Americans. The reason is that
the U.S. supports a double standard in the Middle east between the Muslim
nations and Israel. There is also the fact the American troops are on
the holy ground in Saudi Arabia. The days of the demand making terrorist;
when they would hijack aircraft and demand the release of prisoners is in
the past. Face it The U.S. is under a threat of nuclear and biological
attack like never before not by it's own Government or major corporations
but by Muslim fanatics.

These people are religious fanatics that see their actions as doing
the work of God. They see the Americans as "The Great Satan", immoral,
decadent, arrogant and against God. Look at all the bloodshed and
instability that the Muslim fundamentalist are causing all around the
world. Does that make sense to you? Do you think that the Palestinians
are not really strapping bombs on themselves? Or is that just another
plot by the U.S. Government? You cannot apply western logic and reason
to these people. Remember, if they die in a holy war they are guaranteed
a spot in heaven.

Face it, you have no evidence except that which the internet and Eastman
tells you. All you have is fuzzy photos, rumor and speculation. There
is a shot of a pigeon flying off a building above a traffic light when
the first plane hit. That has been turned into a "Daylight Stealth"
aircraft that was in control of that plane crashing into the North Tower.
That is silly. You only see what fits the scenario that you want to
believe.

"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:<lhsk8.304$i6.1...@read1.cgocable.net>...

Angel Elf

unread,

Mar 19, 2002, 2:24:23 AM3/19/02

"Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message news:<bXvk8.2145$Wp2.5...@news02.optonline.net>...

> "Angel Elf" <Ange...@AngelFire.com> wrote in message
> news:97651508.02031...@posting.google.com...
> > Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
> > holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.
> >
> > A secret like this would be impossible to keep. The press would be
> > all over a story like this if there were a shred of viable evidence
> > and there is none.
>
> Understand what the definition of conspiracy is and then start over again.
> Now unless there is a complete and thorough investigation of statements and
> facts the truth can not come out. The secrets and lies can not be exposed.
> Furthermore was the press all over the strange inconsistencies of JFK's
> Assassination? This is the grassy knoll all over again minus the official
> commission assigned to cover it up.

There has been one investigation after another on the JFK matter.
What did they prove? Nothing. Were there anomolies? Yes. But
what in life is all tied up neat and clean with a nice bow. Nothing.

>
> > Not because they see you as competition but because
> > there just is no story. Have you come to New York City to interview
> > eye witnesses like a real freelance journalist would do? Or just read
> > articles on the net? If you want to be real freelance journalist
> > you have to get out in the field and dig up the story yourself. If
> > there is a "smoking gun" then you will find it.
>
> You mean this is not a safe story for America in general. What questions has
> anybody asked about inconsistencies in the limited official line. The
> government has been allowed by the media to be selective with their release
> of information, supply misinformation of facts, use deceptive and deflective
> answers to legitimate questions without any further pressing. They (media)
> have taken the position of patriots by not questioning these peculiar,
> incomplete, and farfetched statements with no serious follow up questions.
>
> It is very difficult to find smoking guns in conspiracies if no one is
> investigating it . I do not speak of Congressional Investigations either but
> they were all the same requested to limit their investigation surrounding
> 9/11 because it would drain resources and take away from bringing those
> responsible to justice. Yet we now have a calling for an investigation of an

> agency (INS) who apparently was following its normal procedures. I would

> think this is an important act, but it should not be the number one priority
> against a full investigation of the complete failure of our Air Defense
> system that allowed a 75% success rate of an alleged terrorist attack on
> America by a genius evil-doer of comic book proportions.

You are underestimating the enemy and overestimating the American
Government. Their was a report to FBI, CIA, or some other department
about just such an attack but it was ignored as being too far fetched.
Typical bureaucratic bumbling and not a conspiracy. The various
departments don't share information so one department has no idea what
is going on in the other.

>
> > You would rather believe that major corporations, and various
> > departments of the US Government, planned and executed this
> > plan with the help of planted bombs and remote controlled aircraft.
> > And why?
>
> Read Brzezinski "The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and its
> Geostrategic Imperatives". It will explain everything including what would
> be needed to get the American people to support the unspoken agenda.
>
>
> >Because of some multi level cover-up?
>
> If there is no cover-up why was the investigation into 9/11 discouraged?
> Does one who blindly believe in their government regardless of its track
> record? These could be considered nut jobs with the history of our
> government.

Discouraged by whom? The investigation was quite thorough it just
didn't give the results that you wanted. Muslim Arabs did it not
the U.S. Government.

>
> > To wage war in Afghanistan? A conspiracy that would ruin the very
> > corporations that allegedly carried it out and seriously hurt the US
> > economy, kill thousands of innocent people and cost billions of dollars,
> > then just accept the fact that it was carried out by religious fanatics
> > that want to see America hurt.
>
> Ruined corporations, hurt the economy? What corporations have been ruined?
> If directly effected by the attacks isn't the insurance industry picking up
> the immediate tab. No corporations were hurt including the insurance
> industry which will offset things with charging higher premiums to
> customers, you and I. The economy is on track regardless of the attacks and
> Wall Street is back up to its over inflated status. Some companies actually
> benefited in the market greatly because these attacks.

New York City is in an economic crisis they are cutting programs left
and right. Insurance companys will have to pay out billions of
dollars they may not be ruined but they will be hurt. What companies
have actually benefited? Construction companys? Fire truck and
police car companies? The airlines? The economy will bounce back
but why would the U.S. Government do this?

> I ask you to rethink your views about the people behind 9/11 after what I
> just stated. What is more absurd, the Governments involvement to ensure the
> people support the underlying geostrategic imperatives some think is
> necessary (for a wacky outcome) or the evil-doer genius of comic book
> proportions that surprised and confused our government and civil defense
> systems so badly that they just didn't function properly or at all? Sober
> thinking does not choose the latter when viewing things rationally.
> Americans should have no problem supporting our government in exterminating
> dangerous individuals or sects. They should however not support the
> government in the slaughter of citizens under the guise of terrorists to
> promote their not widely known agenda that is still not being hammered
> through by unpatriotic media outlets. Read the book then we can discuss if
> you still think it unconscionable.

Unfortunatly this "comic book" character did surprise and confuse all
the systems you mentioned. Did you ever consider that a jet airliner
would be used as a terror weapon? I sure didn't. I support the
slaugher of any threat to my or my familys life.
These religious fanatics should be hunted down and killed to the last
man, woman, child, goat, camel, dog, and cat.

> >
> > Dick, these aircraft were hijacked by terrorists not remote controlled.
> >
> Do you have incontrovertible facts? Where have you obtained these facts? Do
> you claim that UMA are science fiction and the technology hasn't been
> successful? Are you aware many years ago the Air Force flew an unmanned
> aircraft from Dulles to Australia perfectly and without incident? Are you
> aware that one of the boasts about this technology by our government was
> that if a jetliner was highjacked that it could take over the controls and
> land the plane where it wanted to? A serious deterrent for the highjackers
> success was claimed.Why have all traffic controllers been prevented from
> speaking to the media? Could they provide more of a stench to this stink?
> Absolutely!

Yes I am, in fact the flight computers on modern jet aircraft can
takeoff, fly, and land without any human intervention. So what?
Just because it can be done does not mean it was. The anti-hijacking
technology that you speak of discussed but not implemented. Do you
have incontrovertible proof that it was in use on Sept. 11? Who
said all traffic controllers been prevented from speaking to the
media? Besides didn't you say that the media was in on it?

> > These attacks were carried out by terrorists not the US Government or
> > major corporations.
>
> I ask you again bring something to the discussion to help your claims. Past
> or present events or statements by government officials.
>
> > The war in Afghanistan is justified because the
> > Taliban aided, supported and sheltered these terrorists.
>
> If this is the case lets just bomb the hell out of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,
> Egypt, Iran, Syria, Iraq and what the hell, CIA headquarters. All of these
> have done what you have claimed the Taliban have done.
> The difference is the geopolitical imperatives that Afgnanistan holds and
> not terrorists.
>

Yeah and the sooner the better. Unleash the awesome power of the
greatest military force on earth. Use the CIA too. Time to change
from defense to offense. You forgot Indonesia and Africa.

> >
> > I hope that the People of the United States and their Allies will not
> > falter in the quest to root out and destroy these religious fanatics
> > all over the planet.
> >
>
> Yes but there are evil-doers in Washington that also need to be rooted out
> and destroyed.

That is done by elections and by legal means not by terror and murder.

>
> Mr. Y

Angel Elf

unread,

Mar 19, 2002, 8:17:08 AM3/19/02

eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message news:<9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com>...

> Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02031...@posting.google.com>...
> > Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
> > holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.
>
> Well, Ms. Elf, its like this: The Defense Department released their
> video, and their video shows a fighter shooting a missile into the
> Pentagon before it crashes.
> http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif
> Here you see the fighter/bomber and the white trail of the missile in
> the enlargement provided by (originally sceptical) David Boesankoe of
> the U.K.
> Now, Elf, the debate is all over -- the Bush Administration story is
> on the shelf with the flat Earth and with the martians of Orsen
> Welles' 1938 radio "news-broadcast" dramatized "War of the Worlds"
> invasion of NYC.
>

No Dick that is not what I see. It looks to me like flight 77 crashing
into the ground first then smashing into the Pentagon. Because there
is no shot of the jet pulling up I assume you think that the alleged
fighter also crashed into the building. So as I asked you in a past
post, what happened to the real flight 77? Did it exist in the first
place? Where did the passengers go? Was there any debris from the
alleged jet fighter? Was there any debris from the alleged missile?
What about all the bodies of the passengers?

The debate is over alright Flight 77 hijacked by Muslim fanatics
crashed the jet liner into the Pentagon. No missile, no jet fighter.

> obvious-through-direct-inspection fact that the hole made in the side

> of the Pentagon was much too small for the Boeing 757 as the French
> have shown by imposeing a drawn-to-scale 757 silhouette over a
> front-view and over a from-above (satellite) view of the attack site.
> http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Flight 77 hit the ground and slid into the Pentagon then it exploded.
That is why the hole in the side of the building is not as large as
one would expect. Plus the building is made of strong reinforced
concrete.

> > A secret like this would be impossible to keep.

Dick, what I meant is that a secret of a conspiracy would be impossible
to keep from the press and the general public. Hell, the U.S. cannot
keep our proposed atomic target list or if a President is getting a
blow job from an intern with out it being splashed all over the news.

> Yes, you are right on this one -- despite the efforts of the elves,
> the secret could not be kept, could it?
>
> > The press would be all over a story like this if there
> > were a shred of viable evidence and there is none.
>
> I used to live in that world, Elf. As the old song goes,
> "I'd give a million tomorrows for just one yesterday."
> And I suspect you don't really live there either any more,
> not really. Honestly, do you?

I am not sure what you mean by that Eastman. If you mean a world
where the American Government and their departments would kill and
destroy our own innocent civilians for some convoluted conspiracy,
well, I don't live in that world but apparently you do.

In the world that I live there are Muslim fanatics that see the United
States as the great Satan because of our support of Israel, troops on
holy land in Saudi Arabia, and support of that royal family In my world
they are out to kill me and my family by any means at their disposal
including nuclear, biological weapons. They will not be satisfied
until they see their religious beliefs forced on the entire world.

Eastman, can you deny these forces are at work all over the world?
The attacks on churches in Pakistan, the killing of the reporter, Pearl?
The instability in Africa and Indonesia? The kidnappings in the
Philippians? Do you think this is really some global conspiracy
by the United States Government? That the suicide bombers in Israel
are really dupes of the CIA? Come on Dick give me a break.

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 19, 2002, 3:12:17 PM3/19/02

"Angel Elf" <Ange...@AngelFire.com> wrote in message

news:97651508.0203...@posting.google.com...

> "Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message
news:<bXvk8.2145$Wp2.5...@news02.optonline.net>...
> > "Angel Elf" <Ange...@AngelFire.com> wrote in message
> > news:97651508.02031...@posting.google.com...
> > > Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory that
> > > holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.
> > >
> > > A secret like this would be impossible to keep. The press would be
> > > all over a story like this if there were a shred of viable evidence
> > > and there is none.
> >
> > Understand what the definition of conspiracy is and then start over
again.
> > Now unless there is a complete and thorough investigation of statements
and
> > facts the truth can not come out. The secrets and lies can not be
exposed.
> > Furthermore was the press all over the strange inconsistencies of JFK's
> > Assassination? This is the grassy knoll all over again minus the
official
> > commission assigned to cover it up.
>
> There has been one investigation after another on the JFK matter.
> What did they prove? Nothing. Were there anomolies? Yes. But
> what in life is all tied up neat and clean with a nice bow. Nothing.
>

Lets not obfuscate that the Warren Commision was the official record of the
US Government. Thats a lame excuse about their not being a conspiracy to
cover up the reality surrounding this issue. This commission was laughable
so claiming that there was some anomolies is being disingenuous. I expect an
official report surrounding the investigation of an assasinated President to
be neat, coherent, clean and also have a bow tie. It had the bow tie but it
lacked all else mentioned.

You still try to deflect a legitimate response. The question was and still
is why has the government been so secretive about their failures in
protection of Americans on 9/11?

What they have released as an explanation to this days events is laughable,
unacceptable and isn't being reported in the US Media i.e TV. There has been
no realistic investigation in how this attack was successful. Stop being an
apologist for my governments/media 1) ineptitude or 2) complicity in hiding
the facts of how the evil-doer of comic book proportions was so successful
in its attacks. Stop using the lame excuse that one agency doesn't talk to
the other. Accountability is needed not ass an kissing "I am a patriot" flag
waving because my government and its agencies are very credible.

>
> >
> > > You would rather believe that major corporations, and various
> > > departments of the US Government, planned and executed this
> > > plan with the help of planted bombs and remote controlled aircraft.
> > > And why?
> >
> > Read Brzezinski "The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and its
> > Geostrategic Imperatives". It will explain everything including what
would
> > be needed to get the American people to support the unspoken agenda.
> >
> >
> > >Because of some multi level cover-up?
> >
> > If there is no cover-up why was the investigation into 9/11 discouraged?
> > Does one who blindly believe in their government regardless of its track
> > record? These could be considered nut jobs with the history of our
> > government.
>
> Discouraged by whom?

How is it that you are so full of knowledge yet need to ask this question?
BUSH, CHENEY called Daschle personally and requested this. They made claims
of it using unecessary resources and would prevent what really needed to be
done.

This is discouragement! This is unspoken words that state "it is unimportant
to know why this happened". These guys need to go as quickly as possible and
I only wish to jail for many serious crimes and cover ups.

The investigation was quite thorough it just
> didn't give the results that you wanted.

Incorrect, there was no thorough investigation! And if you insist provide me
a link with its findings!

Muslim Arabs did it not
> the U.S. Government.

Provide me/us with proof! Did the stock options placed on 9/11 lead to
Muslims? No one knows because they haven't released their findings! It is
pretty apparent why they haven't. It would show governmental complicity in
some shape or form.

>
> >
> > > To wage war in Afghanistan? A conspiracy that would ruin the very
> > > corporations that allegedly carried it out and seriously hurt the US
> > > economy, kill thousands of innocent people and cost billions of
dollars,
> > > then just accept the fact that it was carried out by religious
fanatics
> > > that want to see America hurt.
> >
> > Ruined corporations, hurt the economy? What corporations have been
ruined?
> > If directly effected by the attacks isn't the insurance industry
picking up
> > the immediate tab. No corporations were hurt including the insurance
> > industry which will offset things with charging higher premiums to
> > customers, you and I. The economy is on track regardless of the attacks
and
> > Wall Street is back up to its over inflated status. Some companies
actually
> > benefited in the market greatly because these attacks.
>
> New York City is in an economic crisis they are cutting programs left
> and right.

New York City is not a corporation!

Insurance companys will have to pay out billions of
> dollars they may not be ruined but they will be hurt.

What corporations were ruined?

What corporations has anyone charged with carrying this attack out?

Insurance companies can easily recouped their loses by my previous
statement.

What companies
> have actually benefited?

Military Manufacturers! How nice, I hope you placed your bets on them at the
moment the exchange reopened.

Construction companys? Fire truck and
> police car companies? The airlines?

The airlines got 1.5 billion dollars from Bush.

The economy will bounce back
> but why would the U.S. Government do this?

How many times will your kind ask this stupid question?

>
> > I ask you to rethink your views about the people behind 9/11 after what
I
> > just stated. What is more absurd, the Governments involvement to ensure
the
> > people support the underlying geostrategic imperatives some think is
> > necessary (for a wacky outcome) or the evil-doer genius of comic book
> > proportions that surprised and confused our government and civil defense
> > systems so badly that they just didn't function properly or at all?
Sober
> > thinking does not choose the latter when viewing things rationally.
> > Americans should have no problem supporting our government in
exterminating
> > dangerous individuals or sects. They should however not support the
> > government in the slaughter of citizens under the guise of terrorists to
> > promote their not widely known agenda that is still not being hammered
> > through by unpatriotic media outlets. Read the book then we can discuss
if
> > you still think it unconscionable.
>
> Unfortunatly this "comic book" character did surprise and confuse all
> the systems you mentioned. Did you ever consider that a jet airliner
> would be used as a terror weapon? I sure didn't.

Who's paying you to come here and be an authortatative contradicting figure?

Fact:

They government had reports through intelligence about these things.

Law enforcement arrested a known terrorist in the months prior to 9/11 who
had in his possesion manuals and maps pertaining to these types of
incidents.

Law enforcement also had a flight school instructer/owner notify them
repeatedly without action. This is complicity!

> > >
> > > Dick, these aircraft were hijacked by terrorists not remote
controlled.
> > >
> > Do you have incontrovertible facts? Where have you obtained these facts?
Do
> > you claim that UMA are science fiction and the technology hasn't been
> > successful? Are you aware many years ago the Air Force flew an unmanned
> > aircraft from Dulles to Australia perfectly and without incident? Are
you
> > aware that one of the boasts about this technology by our government was
> > that if a jetliner was highjacked that it could take over the controls
and
> > land the plane where it wanted to? A serious deterrent for the
highjackers
> > success was claimed.Why have all traffic controllers been prevented from
> > speaking to the media? Could they provide more of a stench to this
stink?
> > Absolutely!
>
> Yes I am, in fact the flight computers on modern jet aircraft can
> takeoff, fly, and land without any human intervention. So what?

Good answer! So what! LOL

> Just because it can be done does not mean it was.

So buffoons flew jets with such precision to strategically choosen sites all
by themseves.

The anti-hijacking
> technology that you speak of discussed but not implemented. Do you
> have incontrovertible proof that it was in use on Sept. 11?

You claim it was not and show no proof. Yet it is more plausible that these
professionally guided jets were controlled by global hawk than by some
inept, inexperienced pilots who failed their piper training but now could
successfully find the targets and strike them. with such precision.

Who
> said all traffic controllers been prevented from speaking to the
> media?

The US government said so, I haven't seen one report surrounding any
statements by ATC people who are under a gag order. Hmm, wonder what they
are trying to hide?

>Besides didn't you say that the media was in on it?

Cite it!

The American media is on nothing surrounding the failure of our defenses!!
OK

>
> > > These attacks were carried out by terrorists not the US Government or
> > > major corporations.
> >
> > I ask you again bring something to the discussion to help your claims.
Past
> > or present events or statements by government officials.
> >
> > > The war in Afghanistan is justified because the
> > > Taliban aided, supported and sheltered these terrorists.
> >
> > If this is the case lets just bomb the hell out of Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan,
> > Egypt, Iran, Syria, Iraq and what the hell, CIA headquarters. All of
these
> > have done what you have claimed the Taliban have done.
> > The difference is the geopolitical imperatives that Afgnanistan holds
and
> > not terrorists.
> >
>
> Yeah and the sooner the better. Unleash the awesome power of the
> greatest military force on earth. Use the CIA too. Time to change
> from defense to offense. You forgot Indonesia and Africa.

Time for you to grow up!

>
> > >
> > > I hope that the People of the United States and their Allies will not
> > > falter in the quest to root out and destroy these religious fanatics
> > > all over the planet.
> > >
> >
> > Yes but there are evil-doers in Washington that also need to be rooted
out
> > and destroyed.
>
> That is done by elections and by legal means not by terror and murder.

Election can do nothing to un-elected officials who are part of the problem.
Furthermore the state I live in does not affect a criminal that is elected
by another state. By viewing your denial things will not change.

--
The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its'
determination to continue to be a world power."

- Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post,
April 1975

Mr. Y

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 12:18:40 AM3/20/02

"Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message news:<BYMl8.14390$bj1.6...@news02.optonline.net>...

Mr. Y is his own man. Others are not. A group of U.S. Billionaires
have
put up $40 million to propagandize the American people -- to prettify
the policies of Mr. Sharon, but also to fan the desire for war against
Iraq.
This effort got underway this week. The exposure of the Pentagon
deception was the first target of the debunker squad. They are moving
on the websites, the lists and the newsgroups. In this post and the
next are recorded two encounters with this campaign.

Hush Money and Intimidation afoot Hettinga posts Boutin and Di Justo
"Debunking the No-Plane Myth " Comments by Dick Eastman

University academics sell their souls every year to get grant money
for
research, and to get the grant they have to choose the science (and
sometimes the conclusions) the Establishment wants to see (proof of
"global
warming" etc.) Having scientists turned into whores like this also
comes in
handy when the Establishment has committed a great crime as part of a
frame-up to start a war -- in that case the system can produce just
the
right prostitutes to serve as experts.

Let's look at this specimen.

> X Post in its entirety from IP. Posted by R.A. Hettinga - and my thanks
too
> him.
>
> We have real enemies out there folks, and not all of them are in our own
> government. Baseless conspiracy theories serve only to weaken our side.
> Mike P

[This is, of course, true. -- DE]

> Subj: I-P: "Hunt the Boeing" Answers
> Date: 03/19/2002 2:41:42 PM Central Standard Time
> From: r...@shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
> Sender: owner-igni...@theveryfew.net
> Reply-to: r...@shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
> To: ignitio...@theveryfew.net

> http://paulbouitin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14
> http://www.whatrealyhappened.com/Pentdebris.jpg
> http://www.dc.mil/armylink/photos/Sep2001/roll4112.jpg
> http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hunthoax.html

[I notice this stable of whores includes Mike Rivero, the man who
would have
me post things when his family became too scared. .(I have a family
too,
Mike ... and a country.) Rivero calls the discrepancies in the
offical
account of the Pentagon event
the "hunthoax" -- this is beyond too much. You know you have joined
the
opposition -- sort of like Italy did in both world wars. (I am half
Sicilian, so I know). Rivero knows all I have put out, and that I am
no way
a hoaxer. I know that he compromises when intimidation is applied.
Mike
Rivero, readers are convinced, has been intimidated.--DE]
>
> "Hunt the Boeing" Answers
>
> Thursday, March 14, 2002
>
> by Paul Boutin and Patrick Di Justo
>
> {UPDATE: Patrick and I were on Toronto's International Connection radio
> show this morning.}

[Notice how the debunker is suddenly on international radio, when the
accusation until yesterday was not even admitted to exist. This is
the
Bronfman $40 million PR campaign begining to do its work. (Bronfman
and fat
cats and some glamour talent have chipped in to redo Ariel Sharon's
image
and to focus American opinion on killing Iraq. Obviously if the
public
finds out about the frame-up and the solid visual evidence that the
Pentagon
was not destroyed by a Boeing 757 airliner -- that the other plane is
captured on film actually firing a missile into the Pentagon -- on
the
Defense Departments own security system video -- then the party is
over.

Here, below is how psy op (psychological operation) damage control
works.
Let's walk through this masterpiece of deceit: --DE]
>
> Paul Boutin is a freelance technology writer and former engineer in San
> Francisco. Patrick Di Justo is an astrophysics educator at the American
> Museum of Natural History in New York City who writes for Wired magazine
> and Wired News.

[Money sure can bring talent together in a hurry. Why didn't these
guys
come forward before the big propaganda push? Do you think Boutin
would have
come down on the other side of the question even if he found the
Boeing
untouched in his back yard. Freelance writers are the most
politically
sensitive of men -- and if he does not please the department of
defense in
what he says -- it is going to be lean pickings at the typewriter.
Also,
would he say if he belonged to the CIA? --DE]

> As lifelong propellerheads who firmly believe in asking questions, we
found
> Hunt the Boeing an engaging puzzle, despite its tragic subject matter, but
> one full of obvious errors and misleading questions. Since many of our
> friends continue to ask us if we've seen the site, we decided to document
> our answers to it, which we wrote separately. As might be expected,
Patrick
> focused on the math and science (you may remember his widely circulated
> napkin math on the WTC attack), while Paul picked apart the wording of the
> questions.

"Lifelong propeller heads?" What a lovable image that conjures. They
don't
mention if they were paid for this analysis or who paid them. (An
honest
scientist would.) They don't say how they became instant celebrities
on
international radio. They just had their friends ask them to answer
the
questions -- somehow they got together, although they are in different
fields. Let me guess, they are handsom and have engaging
personalities and
nice sincerel smiles, right. --DE]

> See the original site for photos that accompany the questions.

[Notice that they leave the reader to hunt down the site, which is
never
named.
(WHy are they afraid of showing the data? I never have been. --DE]
>
>
> Question No 1
>
> The first satellite image shows the section of the building that was hit
by
> the Boeing. In the image below, the second ring of the building is also
> visible. It is clear that the aircraft only hit the first ring. The four
> interior rings remain intact. They were only fire-damaged after the
initial
> explosion. Can you explain how a Boeing 757-200, weighing nearly 100 tons
> and travelling at a minimum speed of 250 miles an hour* only damaged the
> outside of the Pentagon?
>
> Paul: The question and photos are misleading: Parts of the plane
penetrated
> the ground floors of the second and third rings of the building. These
> photos show only their intact roofs. Eyewitnesses and news reporters have
> talked about the twelve-foot hole punched through the inside wall of the
> second ring by one of the plane's engines.

[If the engine had the mass to get through the second wall where the
intense
head was, where is this engine? But was there such a hole? Someone
show me
a reporter giving this information about this hole before, say, last
week.
And notice, he says they have "talked about" -- he can't bring
himself to
lie and say that they said that there was one.
There should be lots of photos of it -- surlely they did not suddely
destroy all of this evidence without taking one lousy photo --
especially
with all of the Mideast calling them liars and a war hanging in the
balance? --DE]

>
> More importantly, the question focuses on the plane's size and weight,
> making it sound extraordinarily heavy, but leaves out the size and weight
> of the Pentagon - America's largest office building with three times the
> floor space of the Empire State Building - as well as the difference in
> relative stiffness and energy absorption between a building and an
> airplane. Each side of the Pentagon contains over 100,000 tons of Potomac
> sand mixed into the steel-reinforced concrete under its limestome facade.
> There are nearly 10,000 concrete piles anchoring each side of the
building.
> And in the wake of bombings in Oklahoma City and Saudi Arabia, that
portion
> of the Pentagon had just been reinforced with a computationally modeled
> lattice of steel tubes designed to prevent it from collapsing after an
> explosion.

[The overall size of the Pentagon and the floorspace are irrelevant.
He is
trying to impress with statistics merely for the sake of their being
statistics. There are 10,000 concrete piles under the ground -- but
some
of those walls perhaps ten persent of the surface area, was window
glass --
a much more important datum than the 10,000 piles way down under.

Very simply if the walls were that strong then we would have the case
equivalent to an
airliner hitting the side of a mountain. But even then some of this
mass
would be extruded through the windows. And planes that hit mountains
do not
evaporate. The engine had the most mass. Above we are told that one
engine
popped through the back wall (or was it really the single engine of
the
much smaller missile/plane that actually did hit the building.) Well
if one
engine popped through the back wall, thick as it was, where is the
second
engine -- but they are not showing either engine -- and that is
all they
would have to do isn't it -- why don't they? --DE]

>
> By contrast, the plane is only 100 tons of custom alloys stretched thin
> enough to fly. It's not like a giant bullet; more like a giant racing
bike.
> Even so, the plane knocked down 10,000 tons of building material - 100
> times its own weight - in the crash and subsequent collapse. Another
57,000
> tons of the Pentagon were damaged badly enough to be torn down. The
> Brobdingnagian scale of the Pentagon makes the total area of damage seem
> small, but it would hold several Silicon Valley office buildings, or an
> airport terminal.

How absurd to talk about 57,000 tons of Pentagon damage. Not all of
that
matter was reorganized. In physics it is the cracks and breaks not
the
lumps
that count. I can have 57,000 tons of dominoes in a row and knock
them all
down with a stroke of my finger -- this statistic, as if the plane
were a
100 ton aluminum ball and the Pentagon 's new annex was a 100 thousand
ton
ball that
was destroyed is absurd. What really matters is the flux density --
exactly where did the surfaces of aircraft touch surfaces of building,
what
materials, what force ,and how much head was subsequently added --
then
show us where the mass of a Boeing 757 went.

And I hope we get to the fact that the The fact is that the hole
that has
been captured on film from the street before the upper floors
collapsed into
the first has been estimated as small as 3 meters across, is too
small to
accomodate a Boeing 757. --DE}

>
> Patrick: Watch the videotapes of the planes hitting the World Trade
Center.
> They were traveling at approximately 400 mph, and they hit an aluminum and
> glass building. An entire plane went in, and hardly anything came out the
> other side, 208 feet away.

[Yes and we know nothing about that example, because the crash site
did not
last long enough to be examined (the building collapsed). There is
nothing
to compare -- we know nothing of what happened when the plane passed
the
glass. --DE]
>
> Here we have a plane traveling at nearly 250 mph (just over 1/2 the
> velocity of the WTC planes, meaning just over 1/4 of their kinetic
energy),
> hitting the ground (which would absorb much of that energy), and only then
> sliding at a much slower speed into a steel-and-kevlar-reinforced concrete
> and brick building. Obviously, it's not going to go very far. Still, parts
> of the plane penetrated into the C ring.

[Here he puts sensible true comments in to build confidence --
please not
that I agree with the above paragraph, and note also that it presents
his
argument with problems -- remember the plane crashinging into the
stone
cliff -- it happens all the time and the wreckage does not disappear.
One guy says there was a hole, because he heard witnesses were talking
about
one. The other says that the structure was so massive that the second
wall
couldn't be breached. They don't mind which of these contradictory
views
you believe, as long as you reject the contention they are going on
radio to
debunk. And notice the remark about parts penetrating the C ring.
What
parts?]
>
>
> Question No 2
>
> The two photographs in question 2 show the building just after the attack.
> We may observe that the aircraft only hit the ground floor. The four upper
> floors collapsed towards 10.10 am. The building is 26 yards high. Can you
> explain how a Boeing 14.9 yards high, 51.7 yards long, with a wingspan of
> 41.6 yards and a cockpit 3.8 yards high, could crash into just the ground
> floor of this building?
>
> Paul: Again the question contains incorrect facts in its setup: As
reported
> in the New York Times, the plane struck between the first and second
floors
> of the building. The high-res version of the photo shows a two story high
> hole in side of the building. Don't look where the fire truck is directing

> its water, but towards the center of the photo - two floors out of four
are
> knocked out of the outside wall.

[Not hardly: Look at this one:
Look again at http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010016.JPG

Bosankoe has cropped this shot to the important piece. [I will mail it
to
anyone who asks for the Bosankoe enlargement in the subject section).
This
is the entry point of the impact. Notice the small yellow pillar with
the 4
wooden posts. This pillar gives you a scale for the size of the fire
hole
and therefore the size of the plane/missile that hit the Pentagon. At
the
maximum this hole is no more than 3m (10ft), and that's being
generous. The
glow of the fire just show the intensity of heat inside. The only
mercy in
this is the speed at which the personnel inside would have died and
most
would have been knocked unconcious by the blast.

>
> Patrick: The plane hit the ground first, then slid into the building. If
> the landing wheels were not down and locked, the full height of the plane
> would extend upwards into the second floor of the building, which is what
> happened.

[How absurd. If the bottom half of the plane flew through the ground
floor
and the top have plowed through the floor of the second story then we
would
have had a sheared mess -- the top portion would not have proceded
more
than a few yards and the bottom would have gone much further. But if
the
plane did have to travel horizontally through and across the floor
then the
"mountain side" wreckage would be the expected result. But it is not
there.
It did not happen. What really happened is that a fighter jet fired a
missile ahead of its own impact.

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Now look at these scenes taken from the street straight across the
lawn from
the explosion :

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010015.JPG How did the plane
get
past these street lamp posts?

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010016.JPG Boeing 757 could
not have
passed between these lamposts as the Defense Department security video
shows
that the attacking plane, flying in horizontally at first-floor level
obviously did.

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010017.JPG --DE]

> Question No 3
>
> The photograph above shows the lawn in front of the damaged building.
> You'll remember that the aircraft only hit the ground floor of the
> Pentagon's first ring. Can you find debris of a Boeing 757-200 in this
> photograph?
>
> Paul: : Yet another leading question ("you'll remember..."), but one
> looking in the wrong place anyway. At 250 mph, the plane did not stop at
> the outside of the building. Security camera photos and eyewitness
accounts
> from many credible people, including AP reporter Dave Winslow, agree that
> the plane completely disappeared into the building. If you've seen photos
> of airline crashes after the fire is out, they often look more like
> landfill sites than anything recognizable as having been an airplane.

There is only one security camera photo and that is what I present
above --
there is talk of a security video taken from a nearby gas station,
but that
is reported to have been taken by the FBI and not released. Yet Paul
speaks
with the implication that he is taking this data into account, isn't
he?
(Go look above and see that he does.) This means that the FBI has
given him
what it has not given the news media. Or else, he is blowing smoke
and
talking beyond what he has really investigated. This discredits this
joker
right here for me. --DE]
>
> But since the question more literally asks for a photo showing airliner
> debris on the lawn, here's one. Here's another.

Those are not recognizable as pieces of a Boeing 757.
>
> Patrick: The Pentagon burned (or at least smoldered) for several days. Was
> this photograph taken on September 11? Or was it taken after the wreckage
> was moved away?
>
>
> Question No 4
>
> The photograph in question 4 shows a truck pouring sand over the lawn of
> the Pentagon. Behind it a bulldozer is seen spreading gravel over the
turf.
> Can you explain why the Defence Secretary deemed it necessary to sand over
> the lawn, which was otherwise undamaged after the attack?
>
> Patrick: My father was a construction engineer. He would only put a crane
> onto a grass lawn in an extreme emergency, and only after getting
> indemnified against damages. No, the first thing he would do is to lay
down
> a pathway of steel plates, then cover them with gravel, to prevent his
> equipment from getting bogged down in the soft earth. When you see in that
> picture is a roadway being built to bring the heavy equipment across the
> lawn.
>
> Paul: You don't have to be a construction worker to recognize a road being
> built over the lawn, to support the vehicles dismantling the damaged
> building and hauling away debris. I can't find any news reports (or people
> who remember any) about Donald Rumsfeld personally ordering this work
done.
> I suspect the statement is false, and was added to make the activity seem
> more suspicious.
>
[This makes sense. --DE] [But he shouldn't trust his memory on
Rumsfeld.
It was the same company that took away the wreckage of the Murrah
Building
in Oaklahoma.as is the wtc clean-up.]

> Question No 5
>
> The photographs in Question 5 show representations of a Boeing 757-200
> superimposed on the section of the building that was hit. Can you explain
> what happened to the wings of the aircraft and why they caused no damage?
>
> Patrick: I'm not certain the models are to scale, and they're certainly
not
> in the correct orientation. Since the plane hit the ground and skidded
into
> the building, enough energy was lost by the initial impact and friction
> with the ground that the engines probably did not penetrate the building.

[Whoa!!! He isnot certain the models are to scale??? Then what the
hell is
he doing opening his mouth??????? Here is a punk bing bankrolled to
investigate and he does not do the most elementary, the most obvious
physical test???? Give me a massive break. ]
>
> Paul: If you're going to doctor evidence, do it right: Eyewitness accounts
> say the plane, like those that struck the World Trade Center, was tilted
at
> an angle of 45 degrees when it hit. Adjust the silhouettes properly, or
> just fix the parallax effect in the second photo. The plane fits the
impact
> area pretty well. Don't look at the collapsed upper floors, but at the
> wider swatch knocked out of the ground floor. I would expect the wings,
> being weaker than the building, to collapse on the way in. But with no
> previous crashes of the sort to guide us, we can't possibly predict what
> should have happened. If there's anything we learned that day, it's that
we
> are poor judges of what is and isn't possible.

[And here is the other whore who also has not done the basic
measurements
and he has the temerity to talk about "doctoring evidence"????!!!!!!!
Then, based on no data, based on nothing but his glib facility to drop
comments about adjusting parallax -- and parallax perspective is not
an
issue since the two-dimensional single-depth roof is being compared to
the
actual wingspan and nose to tail dimensions of the plane -- there is
not
distortion if the person who made the superimpostion had the wingspan
and
length of the plane, the dimensions of the building, has the stright
down
shot, and finly graduated ruler and a calculator. The plane is way
bigger
than the hold as shown. (I am speaking of the satellite shot of the
roof.

As for the other overlay -- why have these jokers not produced their
own?
Why did they just ""armchair" their entire analysis?????? Who put
these
jokers up as experts, or even as competent amateurs?? They are nothing
of
the kind.
>
> Question No 6
>
> The quotations in Question 6 correspond to statements made by Arlington
> County Fire Chief, Ed Plaugher, at a press conference held by Assistant
> Defence Secretary, Victoria Clarke, on 12 September 2001, at the Pentagon.
>
> When asked by a journalist: "Is there anything left of the aircraft at
all?"
>
> "First of all, the question about the aircraft, there are some small
pieces
> of aircraft visible from the interior during this fire-fighting operation
> I'm talking about, but not large sections. In other words, there's no
> fuselage sections and that sort of thing."
>
> "You know, I'd rather not comment on that. We have a lot of eyewitnesses
> that can give you better information about what actually happened with the
> aircraft as it approached. So we don't know. I don't know."
>
> When asked by a journalist: "Where is the jet fuel?"
>
> "We have what we believe is a puddle right there that the -- what we
> believe is to be the nose of the aircraft. So -"
>
> Can you explain why the County Fire Chief could not tell reporters where
> the aircraft was?
>
> Paul: Quoting people verbatim to make them sound like they are dissembling
> is an old journalists' trick, as any Doonesbury reader knows. I think
Chief
> Plaugher answered the question pretty well: There's a puddle (of melted
> metal, not jet fuel - he's not directly answering the reporter's idiotic
> question) that was the nose, and a few small pieces visible, but no large
> sections.

[More "armchairing!!!" Since they are the big experts, why didn't
they
use their budget and call up these witnesses. WHy weren't they given
a list of the firemen on the scene. Why didn't they talk to the
wrecking
crews.
>
> Patrick: Are any government officials telling any journalists anything
> these days?

[They always do when it will save their skins -- which is just the
opposite
of the case here. --DE]
>
>
> Question No 7
>
> The two photographs in question 7 were taken just after the attack. They
> show the precise spot on the outer ring where the Boeing struck. Can you
> find the aircraft's point of impact?
>
> Paul: The answer is front and center in the photo, maybe to make us think
> it can't be that obvious: The two-story high impact hole (also seen in the
> photo for Question No 2) is immediately to the right of the fireman,
partly
> hidden by the spray of water from the fire truck. Look at the second
> high-res photo and you can't miss it. Are we supposed to think it's a
> two-story archway of some sort? See pre-crash photos or the surviving
sides
> for comparison.

This guy is looking at onlyh one photograph as if that isthe only
photo in
the world. Where are the other photos (like the ones I have
introduced --
and those that others have taken) --- for men of science these men
have
a great disregard for getting all the relevant information and for
performing all analytical operations on the information they do have
before
them. --DE]
>
> Patrick: In enlargement #1, the impact hole fits in the rectangle formed
> from pixel(1232,1088) to pixel(1492, 1545).
>
> After that, I didn't bother to look at enlargement #2.

[ In fact that little operation is all of the "laboratory" work these
guys
have introduced. I suspect that they enjoy meeting in committees a
long
more than nuts and bolts science.]

>
> [UPDATE: See "Hunt the Boeing" Answers with science writer Patrick Di
Justo]
>
>
>
> I've been linked to by one of those conspiracy sites that claims Flight 77
> didn't hit the Pentagon, as if I support their ridiculous claims. I'd be
> more likely to believe the counter-theory that these sites are part of a
> government plot to discredit the Internet.
>
> Contrary to the claims on such sites that there are no photos showing the
> plane, the 757 is visible hitting the ground at the right of the first
> photo in this set at CNN. It's disturbing, but impossible to miss. The
> accompanying CNN video points out the plane via highlighting.
>
> Having seen plenty of airliner crash photos and talked to eyewitnesses
from
> D.C., I admit the Hunt the Boeing asks some tricky math and science
> questions, but that's about it. In the end, I believe what I do because of
> eyewitnesses and a credible network of sources in D.C., not photos that
can
> be doctored and/or misleading.
>
> Of course, we should still wonder why the Pentagon didn't release the
above
> photos until last week. If rumors on the Web prompted the brass to stop
> sitting on them, great. Let's hope that happens more often. That
government
> plot may be backfiring. :-)

[ The French raised the question. The analysis has been done by
Americans.
They don't dare go head to head with Michael C. Ruppert or Carol A.
Valentine.

I WANT THEM TO ENGAGE IN AN INTERNET DEBATE ON RENSE.COM WITH RUPPERT
AND
VALENTINE -- WITH DATA AND MEASUREMENTS.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO DEBATE MIKE RIVERO on Usenet newsgroups
alt.noam.chomsky.com and uk.politics.crime and two other newsgroups
of his
choice.

Money and intimidation are afoot -- but the American people are not
so
easily fooled once they are awake -- and now they are truly awake.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington

THE WAR ON DISSENT WIDENS
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12612
A powerful group of neo-conservative war hawks is launching a bold new
public relations campaign attacking anyone who disagrees with Bush's
war on
terrorism. [Neo-conservative is the term used to describe the
Rothschild interests controlling the Republican Party. The
Buchananites are the true GOP in exile.)

http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine

http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert

www.narconews.com
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 12:27:16 AM3/20/02

The hired hecklers, like the drunks crooked politicians gather from
the gutters to attend anti-corruption meetings and pelt honest
politicians with tomatoes -- the tomatoes are now starting to fly at
any and all who dare to point to the data of the Pentagon event.
Another case in point:

Pussycat Geoff Metcalf gets thousands of neg. e-mails Pentagon, rolls
over. (Bronfman's $40 million "kill-Iraq" PR campaign at work?)

Geoff Metcalf has backed away from consideration of the Pentagon
frame-up evidence? Let's think about this development. Let's see why
we can expect
a lot of Geoff Metcalfs in the days ahead.

=================
Geoff Metcalf writes:

> My column last week, "So where is the plane?" sparked an unbelievable
> storm of response. I am physically unable to respond to the thousands
> of e-mails individually, but hopefully this column will cover most of the
> bases.

> I believe the bulk of my harshest critics either never read the first
> three paragraphs or were unable to comprehend the words. I did
> not subscribe to the French intimations, I just reiterated the questions.

> Then, I apparently made the unpardonable sin of suggesting, "there
> are several questions that at least should be asked and answered."
> To report that my request for your comments was answered is grossly
> inadequate a means of articulating what followed.
>
> For the record - and this is neither a mea culpa nor a retraction - I
> personally am convinced American Airlines Flight 77 did hit the
> Pentagon Sept. 11. There are still a lot of unanswered questions, but
> that much is a certainty.
>
> I am not an expert in these matters and I don't play one on TV.
> However, I have heard from a wide range of experts offering
> contradictory conclusions.
>
> One of the more reasoned, objective reactions received was
> from an Air Force chief master sergeant. He was in the Pentagon
> on Sept. 11 when we were attacked. He personally participated
> in rescue and recovery operations immediately after the attack
> - and for days afterward - and has direct observations of many
> details not mentioned. Read his point-by-point refutation of the
> French website questions.

[Funny that Metcalf does not even share one of these points in this
letter -- nor does he mention the sergeant again. And is this
sergeant
all of his experts? Why no mention of them or what they said. In the
media trade what Metcalf is doing is called "blowing smoke," a
practice of prostitute journalism.]

Look at this little piece of work:

> ......An inconceivable amount of classified stuff was
> blown all over the place. "Security containers were dislodged, sensitive
> operations areas blown open, and classified computers and papers littered
> the site. The raging fires created drafts carrying classified papers into
> the air and distributing them everywhere on the grounds of the Pentagon."
> That is one very good reason why the press was kept at bay.
>

Don't flatter yourself, Geoff. You don't get thousands of e-mails
like
that unless you are the target of a professional operation. (This is
how the
establishment lobbys Congress, don't you recognize the technique?)
Think
about it. We are told the world is oblivious to the question -- that
no one
is paying attention to Valentine, Ruppert, and others around the
world
exposing the frame-up -- then suddenly, you, a semi-mainstream guy
(not as popular as you think and as the flattering number of e-mails
that
suddenly hit you would suggest to the clueless.) You introduced the
slightest
mouses nod to the existence of this overwhelming evidence that has
convinced all of Europe and the Middle East, the Greens, the
populists, and
almost everyone who knows about the key evidence -- and suddenly
there comes upon you out of nowhere this massive e-mail campaign to
shut you up.

I'll tell you what, Geoff. Pick any twenty of those e-mails at
random,
contact the writer -- see if they are real, sound their views --
call them
and see if they are legitimate, see if they were not working from a
boiler room in Bronfman's or some other billionaire's basement.
(Bronfman is one of a group of super rich men who have put up $40
million to refocus pulbic attention away from Sharon's
to-hell-with-collateral-damage Palestine policy and unto attacking
Iraq
-- and believe it, Geoff, money like that buys hecklers to throw
tomatoes
at people at the man with the facts, the journalist who wants to do
the
right thing, but who will be chilled if he is a mamma's boy who quits
if he thinks people won't like him or won't listen to him any more
etc.)

> I was verbally eviscerated by one Air Force lieutenant colonel who wrote,
> ......."The investigations of murderers do not take place in the news
media, but by
> careful people studying the pieces of aircraft that weren't vaporized, the
> security film and the testimony of FAA controllers and the aircrews who
were
> in our sector at the time. If you would like them to conduct the
> investigation differently, please address your concerns to the Federal
> Bureau of Investigation. They can be reached at the FBI's National Press
> Office."
>
> I responded in part: "I am in receipt of your patronizing response. I
> regret you take offense and were unable to comprehend the opening
> of the column. I too have held the broken bodies of comrades in my
> arms and I understand your visceral reaction."

Pretended offense is an old trick, Geoff. "How dare you question
events
like this while my dead comrades have been cut down and their families
left
bereft ...etc." But Geoff, I have been posting to New York City
newsgroups
about the 911 frame-up and I have NEVER received such a letter from
any New
Yorker -- no matter how bad and torn up they feel inside -- they
still
want the truth -- they still want to know who it REALLY was who did
all
this. And think of this Geoff: The lieutenant colonel is whinning
about
you disturbing the solemnity of his memories of his comrades by
inquiring
into the facts of the Pentagon event -- but the passengers on the
plane
were not military -- so why doesn't this lieutenant refer to them?
After
all if it is being said that Flight 77 was diverted over the ocean and
crashed over the deepest ocean trench -- is it not the families of the
passengers whom he should worry about upsetting? Why doesn't he?

> Since the initial salvo, we have exchanged assorted e-mails and made nice.
> An Army chaplain who works at Arlington National Cemetery noted, "There
were
> many people in the cemetery who saw the plane rocket in, at full throttle,
> and strike the building. That this happened is truly beyond debate - once
> again, too many people saw it."

People saw a small plane. People were aware of the WTC crash and were
aware
that more airliners were up there -- and they may have read Tom
Clancy's
airliner-crashbomb novels on top of that -- enough to condition
anyone ---
and there were lots of real airliners circling because they were not
allowed
to land -- and the plane that hit the Pentagon, we know from the
video,
came in horizonally from a very low approach -- where visual
ightings -- if people are paying attention are difficult -- and from
Arlington they would have viewed the plane -- if indeed they see it,
flying
against the background of the groundscape (the visual "noise" of
buildings
etc.) But people in front of the building state that it was a small
plane -- and one even had a camera and immediately took a picture of
the
small hole.

Most of all there is the Pentagon grounds security video footage
released by
the defense that unmistakably shows a fighter jet and the missile it
fires
into the Pentagon ahead of itself. See for yourself:

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

and then look at the French site where another Pentagon military man
has
taken aerial shots of the Pentagon damage and an overlay to-scale
silhouette
of a Boeing 757 to show how absurd is the proposition that this
aircraft was
the source of the too-small damage in the attack.
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Also,

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010015.JPG How did the plane
get
past these street lamp posts?

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010017.JPG

Also, from new shots taken from the street dircetly in front of the
Pentagon
and comparing them with the security video sequence -- we see that
there
are
three-story-high street lamp posts that would have made it impossible
for a
757
to make the approach that the actual missile/plane took.

> One of the best e-mails was from a woman responding to one of my many
> critics. She observed, "Being an American is a great thing. Because of it,
> we have access to many ideas, theories, opinions, etc. Yes, what happened
on
> Sept. 11 is a horrific tragedy - one we will never forget. If we didn't
have
> journalists to report and speculate on what happened that day (or any
other
> event that happens), we would be in the dark and would have only the
> 'authorities'' version of what they want us to know."

Wave the flag, even in retreat? You could have quite a career ahead
of you,
now that you've shown them you can play ball.
>
> "There are many unanswered questions surrounding what happened that
horrible
> day - some that may never be answered. I found the article interesting and
> thought provoking. I would rather have access to other people's ideas and
> opinions than to be living in times where we are only told what 'they'
want
> us to hear . like the terrorists live. I think that if such articles
offend
> you, don't read them. I personally, would rather have the choice to read
or
> not read, listen or not listen, watch or not watch . than not to be given
> the choice. The First Amendment gives us the right to free speech."

Oh, stop! I can't stop the tears! How commendable -- chest out,
hand on
heart, tail between legs.
>
> Bless you, Rita. However, the First Amendment doesn't give us anything. It
> acknowledges our God-given, inalienable right.
>
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26867
>
================

I said I never get hecklers -- I really don't -- until just in the
last
week -- and I suspect Bronfman's money is at work here.

Here is my first example from uk.politics.crime on the Usenet (with
my
reply):

on the other side of the world!)may be an indication of the importance

I
attach to uncovering the frame-up, but the time spent in no way
discredits
the discussion (in fact friends emplore me to spend more time
proofing what
I write -- which I cannot justify my commitments -- so I thank you
for
not attacking my spelling and sentence construction, old Top.

Now it so happens that the governments account does not stand up in
the face

of what we know. Here is the lastest wrinkle -- proving that a Boeing
757

could not have been responsible for the Pentagon destruction. Read
this and
then you tell me, Don Ocean, which is a defensible theory that fits
the
known facts and what is a mere spun "scenario" to fool an audience and
cover-up a murder.

Pentagon attack -- 757 airliner in first-floor-level horizontal
approach
could not have squeezed between three-story high street lamposts.

[response repeats information given above]
===========

Now here are some new frame-up news sources:

Well, we already know basically WHO and WHY. Now we are going back
and filling in all the blanks as to how exactly this Operation 911
was carried off.

All I know is this: if the public remains uneducated, very little we
try to do will have any lasting effect. That is why I think eduction
is the crux of the issue. A Consitutional Republic such as ours
cannot remain free as long as our leaders operate in total secrecy,
funded and protected by a globalist cartel of billionaire and even
trillionare controllers, while the people remain as ignorant sheep
waiting to be slaughtered. So more important than socalled political
action like writing to complicit and corrupt congressmen, petitioning
the same and protesting is to educate ourselves and others in every
possible way.

Obviously, the mainstream media isn't going to put anything up that
reflects the truth until enough people demand it. So we have to start
somewhere.

Posting to groups is one way, but talking to every one you meet is
another and I am frankly pleasantly surprised to find that most of
the people I speak to are willing to listen and accept the info that
I have given them.

And there are now at least three major videos out that tell the true
story of 911:

911: The Road to Tyrrany by Alex Jones
http://www.infowars.com/

ILLUMINAZI 911: A CHALLENGE FOR THE TRUTH by Anthony J. Hilder
http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/redir/index414.html

TRUTH & LIES ABOUT 9/11 by Mike Ruppert
http://www.copvcia.com/store/index.html

And there is the Vision TV series that may be available.

Buy these, make copies and give them to your local cablestations,
show them to groups and give copies to friends and relatives. Videos
are one of the best way to spread the word.

Writing opeds and letters to the editor are also good. There must be
over a thousand free papers across America. We have to fill their
letter sections and opinion columns up with this information.
Preaching to the converted isn't going to do it.

I have to work my carpentry business and pay the bills like everybody
else, but I spend a lot of hours analyzing the the data and spreading
the word around. Our very future as a country is at stake here. And
to be honest probably our lives. It is worth it to spend whatever
money and time it takes to get this job done. Our goal is an
informed,
peaceful and free society in charge of its own destiny and real
justice
with a capital J! None of this will come about until our people know
what the hell is going on.

Paul

"The Grateful Head" <hun...@sasquatch.com> wrote:

So how do we initiate the process? It seems a lot of people
are committing treason and getting away with it.

The tactic seems to be to attack anyone who might think to
defend the Constitution with false accusations or charges
stemming from victimless crimes.

Neal

Paul Walker wrote:

> MORE SOLID DATA SUGGESTING "FLIGHT 77"
WAS ACTUALLY A MUCH SMALLER DRONE
JET A LA OPERATION NORTHWOODS! AND THE
LIES CONTINUE FROM A FULLY COMPLICIT
AND TREASONOUS AMERICAN MEDIA!
BLITZER, RATHER AND ALL THE REST OF THE
PROFESSIONAL MULTI-MILLIONAIRE-LIARS
SHOULD BE TRIED FOR TREASON RIGHT
ALONG WITH THE BUSH-CABAL.

Eyewitness described a small jet aircraft seating a
maximum of 12 passengers and crew, NOT an airliner,
flying "like a fighter jet" at high speed below
treetop level.

PACIFICATION OF PENTAGON
http://www.geocities.com/s911surprise3b/american_airlines_flight_77/
=============

---------------------

Non-CFR news and analysis -- news freedom of
the press must supply for representative
democratic checks-and-balances constitution-limited
bill-of-rights republican government to work*

http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine

http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert

www.narconews.com
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/

www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com
http://www.apfn.org
http://www.antiwar.com. Justin Raimondo

The Chinese Machiavelli: 3000 years of Chinese Statecraft, by Dennis
& Ching Ping Bloodworth (New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1976)

H.G. Creel, Chinese Thought from Confucius to Mao Tse-tung
(Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1953) Read the chapter on
"legalism."

A. H. Stanton-Candlin, Psycho-Chemical Warfare: The Chinesee Communist
Offensive Against the West (New Rochelle: Arlignton House, 1973)

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence.
Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without
fighting."
--Sun Tzu

Several new books now in bookstores bookstores highlight China's
(Globalism's) plans against common humanity.

===============
FLIGHT 77: SHOW ME THE PLANE!
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=19665

911 - TERROR IN AMERICA
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_part2.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part3.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part4.htm

*Actually we have a colonial debt-

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Also,

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010015.JPG How did the plane
get
past these street lamp posts?

http://www.criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010017.JPG

I said I never get hecklers -- I really don't -- until just in the
last
week -- and I suspect Bronfman's money is at work here.

Here is my first example from uk.politics.crime on the Usenet (with
my
reply):

on the other side of the world!)may be an indication of the importance

Now it so happens that the governments account does not stand up in
the face

of what we know. Here is the lastest wrinkle -- proving that a Boeing
757

Pentagon attack -- 757 airliner in first-floor-level horizontal
approach
could not have squeezed between three-story high street lamposts.

[response repeats information given above]
===========

Now here are some new frame-up news sources:

Well, we already know basically WHO and WHY. Now we are going back
and filling in all the blanks as to how exactly this Operation 911
was carried off.

Obviously, the mainstream media isn't going to put anything up that
reflects the truth until enough people demand it. So we have to start
somewhere.

And there are now at least three major videos out that tell the true
story of 911:

911: The Road to Tyrrany by Alex Jones
http://www.infowars.com/

ILLUMINAZI 911: A CHALLENGE FOR THE TRUTH by Anthony J. Hilder
http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/redir/index414.html

TRUTH & LIES ABOUT 9/11 by Mike Ruppert
http://www.copvcia.com/store/index.html

And there is the Vision TV series that may be available.

Buy these, make copies and give them to your local cablestations,
show them to groups and give copies to friends and relatives. Videos
are one of the best way to spread the word.

Paul

"The Grateful Head" <hun...@sasquatch.com> wrote:

So how do we initiate the process? It seems a lot of people
are committing treason and getting away with it.

The tactic seems to be to attack anyone who might think to
defend the Constitution with false accusations or charges
stemming from victimless crimes.

Neal

Paul Walker wrote:

Eyewitness described a small jet aircraft seating a
maximum of 12 passengers and crew, NOT an airliner,
flying "like a fighter jet" at high speed below
treetop level.

PACIFICATION OF PENTAGON
http://www.geocities.com/s911surprise3b/american_airlines_flight_77/
=============

---------------------

Non-CFR news and analysis -- news freedom of
the press must supply for representative
democratic checks-and-balances constitution-limited
bill-of-rights republican government to work*

http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine

http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert

www.narconews.com
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/

www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com
http://www.apfn.org
http://www.antiwar.com. Justin Raimondo

Several new books now in bookstores bookstores highlight China's
(Globalism's) plans against common humanity.

===============
FLIGHT 77: SHOW ME THE PLANE!
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=19665

911 - TERROR IN AMERICA
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_part2.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part3.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part4.htm

*Actually we have a colonial debt-slave state run by a plutocratic

inveswtment banking house oligarchy with sophisticated shame pretense

of all of the above -- but we are going to change that.

--------------------

slave state run by a plutocratic investment banking house oligarchy

with sophisticated shame pretense of all of the above -- but we are
going to change that.

--------------------

Angel Elf

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 7:51:53 AM3/20/02

Hi There Russell;

Here is a little news item that really makes no sense. If you notice
the Muslim militants made no threat, no demands, made no statement as
to why they did it, and did not claim as to responsibility. What did

they hope to accomplish? What did they accomplish?

Make no mistake, we are in a fight for our very survival. These
Muslims
want to see a world that is Islamic and nothing else.

American Dead From Pakistan Attack to Be Sent Home

By John O'Callaghan
ISLAMABAD (Reuters)

The bodies of two Americans killed in a weekend grenade attack on a
church in Pakistan's capital will be flown home Wednesday after a
memorial service, a U.S. diplomat said.

Barbara Green and her daughter Kristen were among five people killed
in a hail of shrapnel from half a dozen blasts while worshipping at
the Protestant International Church in Islamabad Sunday.

No one has claimed responsibility for the attack but the spotlight is
on hard-line Islamic groups opposed to Pakistan's support for the
U.S.-led war on terror and its crackdown on Muslim militants.

A Pakistani and an Afghan were also killed but suspicion is growing
the fifth body may be that of the grenade-lobbing attacker as no one
has claimed the unidentified and mangled corpse.

A memorial service for the two dead women, the wife and daughter of a
U.S. diplomat, will be held at the heavily fortified U.S. mission
Wednesday afternoon before the bodies are flown out.

"They'll be leaving tonight," the U.S. diplomat told Reuters.

Media have been barred from the service and the departure of the
bodies at the family's request, he said.

Assistant Secretary of State Christina Rocca flew to Pakistan from
India Monday, saying she would accompany the bodies home. But the U.S.
diplomat said he could not confirm those arrangements.

Forty-two people from various countries were wounded but hospital
officials said all were out of danger.

NEW CRACKDOWN

President Pervez Musharraf, who expressed "dismay" on Monday at the
security lapse at the church in Islamabad's diplomatic quarter,
Tuesday relieved the capital's most senior police officers of their
posts at a meeting of senior officials.

Commentators said the violence in one of Pakistan's most protected
areas had hurt Musharraf's credibility as an effective partner in the
anti-terror campaign and threatens to scare off much-needed foreign
investment.

An Interior Ministry official said more militants would be detained in
a new phase of the clampdown that led to the banning of five Muslim
groups in January and the rounding up of more than 2,000 people.

"The second phase of the crackdown is likely to begin in light of an
action plan which was discussed at Tuesday's law and order meeting
chaired by President Musharraf," the ministry official told Reuters.

The attack on the church followed the kidnapping and murder of U.S.
reporter Daniel Pearl, who was abducted in the volatile southern port
city of Karachi on January 23 while investigating radical Islamic
groups.

Musharraf and President Bush conferred briefly by telephone Monday,
pledging to work together to find those behind Sunday's attack.

Cooperation between the two nations rose markedly after the September
11 attacks on the United States, when Washington relied on Pakistani
support for its offensive against Taliban and al Qaeda fighters in
Afghanistan.

U.S. AGENTS JOIN INVESTIGATION

More American special agents will soon arrive in Pakistan to help in
the investigation of Sunday's attack, the State Department said
Tuesday.

It earlier renewed a worldwide caution to Americans, saying the
incident showed terrorists might be seeking softer U.S. targets.

Dependants of U.S. embassy personnel in Islamabad and consulates in
Peshawar, Lahore and Karachi have been authorized to leave Pakistan
voluntarily.

But a U.S. diplomat said Tuesday it was too early to say whether
anyone was leaving.

Representatives of the tiny Christian community Tuesday condemned "the
brutal and barbaric terrorism at the place of holy worship" and
criticized authorities for "carelessness, negligence and
irresponsibility."

They declared March 24 a day of mourning and fasting.

"Russell Ranshaw" <rran...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:<lhsk8.304$i6.1...@read1.cgocable.net>...

> Eastman's scenario at least makes sense.

Angel Elf

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 1:30:01 PM3/20/02

"Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message news:<BYMl8.14390$bj1.6...@news02.optonline.net>...

In my statement I was not talking about the Warren Commission. I was
referring to the other investigations that took place years after the
report by the commission. I believe there were sound tests using a
gun fired from the book depository into a moving target. These tests
were compared to a tape that was recorded from a police radio that was
keyed open during the shooting. There was also the theory that Mr.
Oswald was not buried in his grave, it was someone else. Mr. Oswald
was exhumed and guess who they found? Lee Harvey Oswald! Did the
Mafia have something to do with it? Maybe. Did the CIA or LBJ?
I doubt it very much. Was it a coverup or a fuckup? In any case
we shall never know.

That answer is quite simple, they are screw ups with no discipline.
Here is a news item on the INS that I just read today.

Congressional Critics Blast U.S. Immigration Chief

By Deborah Zabarenko
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of the U.S. immigration service faced
withering criticism in Congress on Tuesday after acknowledging
problems that let two Sept. 11 hijackers take flying lessons months
before their visas were approved.

"I consider your organization today to be worse than useless," Rep.
Darrell Issa, a California Republican, told Immigration and
Naturalization Service Commissioner James Ziglar at a hearing of a
panel of the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee.

Ziglar has been under fire since last week, when the INS formally
notified the flight school the student visas had been approved, six
months after the Sept. 11 attacks. He said the problem was caused in
part by antiquated data-processing.

"While the INS blames the error of approving flight school training to
two dead terrorists on outdated processes, the problem lies squarely
on the shoulders of INS management," Rep. George Gekas, a Pennsylvania
Republican, said in a statement at the hearing.

"Those who have approved the terrorists' visas must be ultimately
accountable to the INS, to the Congress and to the administration,"
Rep. John Conyers, a Michigan Democrat, told the hearing.

Earlier in the day, Ziglar told a luncheon audience at the National
Press Club, "I would have to say it is an understatement that INS's
procedures ... were clearly not the most efficient and certainly not
the most logical."

But he said the problem that caused the delayed visa notification to
the flight school has been fixed.

Ziglar repeatedly has acknowledged his agency needs reform and will
get it, but he has said this will take time, no matter how much money
is appropriated.

President Bush's advisers have recommended merging the INS and the
Customs Service in a sweeping overhaul of U.S. border security in
response to the Sept. 11 attacks, in which some 3,000 people were
killed.

On March 11, exactly six months after the Sept. 11 attacks, in which
hijackers crashed planes into the World Trade Center in New York, the
Pentagon outside Washington and a field in Pennsylvania, the Florida
flight school where Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi were trained
received notification from the INS that their student visas had been
approved.

Atta and Al-Shehhi trained at Huffman Aviation International in
Venice, Florida, and are believed to have piloted the two planes that
hit the twin towers of the World Trade Center.

The two managed to study at the flight school long before their
student visas were approved, Ziglar said, noting this was a common
occurrence for foreign students because of the long processing time to
change a visitor's visa to a student one.

STUDENTS WITHOUT BACKGROUND CHECKS

"Persons in the United States on visitors' visas have been allowed in
the past to begin school before their applications to change to
student status have been approved," Ziglar said.

"This enables them to study, and in the case of shorter programs, even
to complete or nearly complete their studies before their eligibility
has ever been refused," he said. "Atta and Al-Shehhi fit into that
description."

Ziglar said his agency was considering an "obvious" solution to the
problem: "We are considering changing the regulation so that only
approved foreign students may study in the United States. Students
will not be approved until background checks are completed."

Ziglar, who took the helm at INS one month before the attacks, said
Atta and Al-Shehhi were notified last July that their visitors' visas
had been changed to student visas, as they had requested.

However, he said INS rules then in place required the agency not to
send a form notifying the flight school of the change until at least
six months after the original approval.

The six-month delay was required because of concerns over data
storage, Ziglar said.

The INS said on Friday it had made personnel changes after the
embarrassing incident, which triggered widespread criticism, moving
four people to various positions and moving the career employees who
had been in those posts to other jobs within the Justice Department.

As I said government employees are screw ups.

>
> What they have released as an explanation to this days events is laughable,
> unacceptable and isn't being reported in the US Media i.e TV. There has been
> no realistic investigation in how this attack was successful. Stop being an
> apologist for my governments/media 1) ineptitude or 2) complicity in hiding
> the facts of how the evil-doer of comic book proportions was so successful
> in its attacks. Stop using the lame excuse that one agency doesn't talk to
> the other. Accountability is needed not ass an kissing "I am a patriot" flag
> waving because my government and its agencies are very credible.
>
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You would rather believe that major corporations, and various
> > > > departments of the US Government, planned and executed this
> > > > plan with the help of planted bombs and remote controlled aircraft.
> > > > And why?
> > > >
> > > Read Brzezinski "The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and its
> > > Geostrategic Imperatives". It will explain everything including what
> > > would be needed to get the American people to support the unspoken agenda.

I will as soon as I get a chance. Promise

> > > >
> > > >Because of some multi level cover-up?
> > > >
> > > If there is no cover-up why was the investigation into 9/11 discouraged?
> > > Does one who blindly believe in their government regardless of its track
> > > record? These could be considered nut jobs with the history of our
> > > government.
> >
> > Discouraged by whom?
>
> How is it that you are so full of knowledge yet need to ask this question?
> BUSH, CHENEY called Daschle personally and requested this. They made claims
> of it using unecessary resources and would prevent what really needed to be
> done.
>
> This is discouragement! This is unspoken words that state "it is unimportant
> to know why this happened". These guys need to go as quickly as possible and
> I only wish to jail for many serious crimes and cover ups.

Would you please be so kind as to provide a link or reference?
I would like to read it, I must have missed it.

>
> > The investigation was quite thorough it just didn't give the results
> > that you wanted.
>
>
> Incorrect, there was no thorough investigation! And if you insist provide me
> a link with its findings!
>
> > Muslim Arabs did it not the U.S. Government.
>
> Provide me/us with proof! Did the stock options placed on 9/11 lead to
> Muslims? No one knows because they haven't released their findings! It is
> pretty apparent why they haven't. It would show governmental complicity in
> some shape or form.

So, you cannot prove any reference or link because it has not been
released? Perhaps there is no link and hence no governmental
complicity?

Ok here is one:
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/091401hj.htm

> > > >
> > > > To wage war in Afghanistan? A conspiracy that would ruin the very
> > > > corporations that allegedly carried it out and seriously hurt the US
> > > > economy, kill thousands of innocent people and cost billions of
> > > > dollars, then just accept the fact that it was carried out by religious
> > > > fanatics that want to see America hurt.
> > >
> > > Ruined corporations, hurt the economy? What corporations have been
> > > ruined?
> > > If directly effected by the attacks isn't the insurance industry
> > > picking up the immediate tab. No corporations were hurt including the
> > > insurance industry which will offset things with charging higher premiums
> > > to customers, you and I. The economy is on track regardless of the attacks
> > > and Wall Street is back up to its over inflated status. Some companies
> > > actually benefited in the market greatly because these attacks.
> >
> > New York City is in an economic crisis they are cutting programs left
> > and right.
>
> New York City is not a corporation!

Can you deny that New York City was not hurt by these attacks? Can
you say the New York City is not the financial capitol of the world?
What about the corporations that had staff and offices in the WTC?
Were they not hurt by the loss of records, offices and personnel?
How much do you think it will cost to replace all of those records,
computers, office space and staff?

>
> > Insurance companys will have to pay out billions of
> > dollars they may not be ruined but they will be hurt.
>
> What corporations were ruined?

The ones that had office space in the WTC. Many of those companys
were wiped out.

>
> What corporations has anyone charged with carrying this attack out?

None.

>
> Insurance companies can easily recouped their loses by my previous
> statement.
>
> > What companies have actually benefited?
>
> Military Manufacturers! How nice, I hope you placed your bets on them at the
> moment the exchange reopened.

So you think that there was a conspiracy in the "Military Industrial
Complex" that needed business so badly they would sponsor an attack on
the WTC and the Pentagon so that they could sell more material? Are
they the only ones?

>
> > Construction companys? Fire truck and police car companies? The airlines?
>
> The airlines got 1.5 billion dollars from Bush.

The airlines were in serious trouble before Sept. 11 and people are
still afraid to travel on commercial airlines. Besides that money
has not as yet been approved and given to the two airlines involved.

> >
> > The economy will bounce back but why would the U.S. Government do this?
> >
> How many times will your kind ask this stupid question?

My kind? I will ask this "stupid" question until I and "my kind" get
an intelligent and reasonable answer. So far I have not. All I get
are rumors, speculations, and theories. Who makes up the
"Government"? Is it not American citizens? Do you really think
that they would harm their own husbands, wives, mothers, fathers
and children?

> >
> > >
> > > I ask you to rethink your views about the people behind 9/11 after what
> > > I just stated. What is more absurd, the Governments involvement to ensure
> > > the people support the underlying geostrategic imperatives some think is
> > > necessary (for a wacky outcome) or the evil-doer genius of comic book
> > > proportions that surprised and confused our government and civil defense
> > > systems so badly that they just didn't function properly or at all?
> > > Sober thinking does not choose the latter when viewing things rationally.
> > > Americans should have no problem supporting our government in
> > > exterminating dangerous individuals or sects. They should however not
> > > support the government in the slaughter of citizens under the guise of
> > > terrorists to promote their not widely known agenda that is still not
> > > being hammered through by unpatriotic media outlets. Read the book then
> > > we can discuss if you still think it unconscionable.
> >
> > Unfortunatly this "comic book" character did surprise and confuse all
> > the systems you mentioned. Did you ever consider that a jet airliner
> > would be used as a terror weapon? I sure didn't.
>
> Who's paying you to come here and be an authortatative contradicting figure?

Who is paying you to come here and spout your anti-government
conspiracy theories and propaganda?

>
> Fact:
>
> They government had reports through intelligence about these things.
>
> Law enforcement arrested a known terrorist in the months prior to 9/11 who
> had in his possesion manuals and maps pertaining to these types of
> incidents.
>
> Law enforcement also had a flight school instructer/owner notify them
> repeatedly without action. This is complicity!

Fact:

Due to typical bumbling they let these people, except for one, slip
right through their fingers. The various departments were warned
about this kind of attack and chose to ignore it, not because of
a conspiracy, but because they were too proud and arrogant to think
that such a thing could actually happen to the United States.
The same thing happened before the attack on Pearl Harbor on
December 7, 1941. There were reports of submarines and aircraft
in the area and no one did anything about it.

>
>
> > > >
> > > > Dick, these aircraft were hijacked by terrorists not remote
> > > > controlled.
> > > >
> > > Do you have incontrovertible facts? Where have you obtained these facts?
> > > Do you claim that UMA are science fiction and the technology hasn't been
> > > successful? Are you aware many years ago the Air Force flew an unmanned
> > > aircraft from Dulles to Australia perfectly and without incident? Are
> > > you aware that one of the boasts about this technology by our government
> > > was that if a jetliner was highjacked that it could take over the controls
> > > and land the plane where it wanted to? A serious deterrent for the
> > > highjackers success was claimed.Why have all traffic controllers been
> > > prevented from speaking to the media? Could they provide more of a stench
> > > to this stink? Absolutely!
> >
> > Yes I am, in fact the flight computers on modern jet aircraft can
> > takeoff, fly, and land without any human intervention. So what?
>
> Good answer! So what! LOL
>
> > Just because it can be done does not mean it was.
>
> So buffoons flew jets with such precision to strategically choosen sites all
> by themseves.

No, they were not buffoons. They were dedicated to their cause and
were willing to die for it. They were not some stupid suicide
bombers but well educated and intelligent people. You must not
underestimate these fanatics. They are well trained, well financed
and committed to the destruction of western civilization so that it
will be replaced by a world ruled by the Muslim religion.

> > The anti-hijacking technology that you speak of discussed but not
> > implemented. Do you have incontrovertible proof that it was in use on
> > Sept. 11?
>
> You claim it was not and show no proof. Yet it is more plausible that these
> professionally guided jets were controlled by global hawk than by some
> inept, inexperienced pilots who failed their piper training but now could
> successfully find the targets and strike them. with such precision.

You claim it was and show no proof. Yes, it is entirely plausible
that terrorists piloted these aircraft. If you remember correctly
they were trained on jet aircraft simulators, the weather was clear
and they hit a target that is almost impossible to miss, two 110
story towers. All they had to do was follow the Hudson River which
led them right to the WTC. Speculation is that the third aircraft was
supposed to attack the White House but the hijackers hit the Pentagon,
the largest office building in the world, instead. The cockpit of the
fourth aircraft was stormed by the passengers and subsequently
crashed in Pennsylvania. The target for that airliner is, as far
as I know, unknown.

>
> > Who said all traffic controllers been prevented from speaking to the
> > media?
>
> The US government said so, I haven't seen one report surrounding any
> statements by ATC people who are under a gag order. Hmm, wonder what they
> are trying to hide?

I am sorry but I have read no such report. Would you please supply a
reference for me?

>
>
> >Besides didn't you say that the media was in on it?
>
> Cite it!

Ok here it is:

> > > They (media) have taken the position of patriots by not questioning
> > > these peculiar, incomplete, and farfetched statements with no serious
> > > follow up questions.

Did you say it or not? Or was it Eastman?

>
> The American media is on nothing surrounding the failure of our defenses!!

> OK.

>
> > > >
> > > > These attacks were carried out by terrorists not the US Government or
> > > > major corporations.
> > > >
> > > I ask you again bring something to the discussion to help your claims.
> > > Past or present events or statements by government officials.

How about the bombing of the American Embassys in Africa? The suicide
attack on the USS Cole? What about the recent kidnap and murder of
Mr. Richard Pearl? The recent attack on churches in Pakistan? The
kidnaping and murder of tourists in the Philippians? Were these
actions not the result Muslim militants? Do you see a pattern here?
Or was that the United States Government? Or major corporations
trying to drum up business?

> > >
> > > > The war in Afghanistan is justified because the
> > > > Taliban aided, supported and sheltered these terrorists.
> > > >
> > > If this is the case lets just bomb the hell out of Saudi Arabia,
> > > Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, Syria, Iraq and what the hell, CIA headquarters.
> > > All of these have done what you have claimed the Taliban have done.
> > > The difference is the geopolitical imperatives that Afgnanistan holds
> > > and not terrorists.
> > >
> >
> > Yeah and the sooner the better. Unleash the awesome power of the
> > greatest military force on earth. Use the CIA too. Time to change
> > from defense to offense. You forgot Indonesia and Africa.
>
> Time for you to grow up!

I grew up a long long time ago. No it is time for you to realize that
we are in the fight of our lives. That these Islamic terrorists will
not rest until western civilization is buried beneath the sands of
time and the world is under the thumb of one big fundamentalist Muslim
government.

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I hope that the People of the United States and their Allies will not
> > > > falter in the quest to root out and destroy these religious fanatics
> > > > all over the planet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Yes but there are evil-doers in Washington that also need to be rooted
> > > out and destroyed.
> >
> > That is done by elections and by legal means not by terror and murder.
>
> Election can do nothing to un-elected officials who are part of the problem.
> Furthermore the state I live in does not affect a criminal that is elected
> by another state. By viewing your denial things will not change.

The state that you live in has no representation in Congress or the
Senate? By not removing this Islamic threat things will just get
worse. Expect more attacks. Perhaps biological or atomic the
next time.

I think that at this juncture we have to agree to disagree.
There is nothing I can say to convince you that there is no
governmental conspiracy at work here and that these acts of
terror were committed by radical Muslim religious fanatics
that are willing to die for their cause which is the total
domination of the world by the Islamic fundamentalist religion.
And I doubt you can convince me that it is otherwise.

--
"He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it."
George Santayana

#vonroach

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 5:22:00 PM3/20/02

On 19 Mar 2002 21:18:40 -0800, eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman)
wrote:

>...
propaganda hot off the British jihad of muslim extremists press with
editor Sheik Al Swami Easteregg.

#vonroach

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 5:25:34 PM3/20/02

On 19 Mar 2002 21:27:16 -0800, eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman)
wrote:

>..
Another load shoveled from the stables of Sheik Easteregg, editor for
the british cell of the united fanatic muslim jihad. Get it while its
hot.

#vonroach

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 5:31:37 PM3/20/02

On 20 Mar 2002 04:51:53 -0800, Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf)
wrote:

>Make no mistake, we are in a fight for our very survival. These
>Muslims
>want to see a world that is Islamic and nothing else.

Conjures up visions of Parliament sitting around on cushions in their
robes, and the usually scanty clad English lasses strolling about in
robe dragging on the sidewalk behind thick face masks. Egad, what an
uplifting thought. A golden turban for the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 20, 2002, 10:24:55 PM3/20/02

"Angel Elf" <Ange...@AngelFire.com> wrote in message

news:97651508.02032...@posting.google.com...

> "Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message
news:<BYMl8.14390$bj1.6...@news02.optonline.net>...

> > > > > Dick you have no solid evidence just a giant conspiracy theory
that
> > > > > holds no water. All you have is rumor and speculation.

> > > what in life is all tied up neat and clean with a nice bow. Nothing.
> > >
> >
> > Lets not obfuscate that the Warren Commision was the official record of
the
> > US Government. Thats a lame excuse about their not being a conspiracy to
> > cover up the reality surrounding this issue. This commission was
laughable
> > so claiming that there was some anomolies is being disingenuous. I
expect an
> > official report surrounding the investigation of an assasinated
President to
> > be neat, coherent, clean and also have a bow tie. It had the bow tie but
it
> > lacked all else mentioned.
>
> In my statement I was not talking about the Warren Commission. I was
> referring to the other investigations that took place years after the
> report by the commission. I believe there were sound tests using a
> gun fired from the book depository into a moving target. These tests
> were compared to a tape that was recorded from a police radio that was
> keyed open during the shooting. There was also the theory that Mr.
> Oswald was not buried in his grave, it was someone else. Mr. Oswald
> was exhumed and guess who they found? Lee Harvey Oswald! Did the
> Mafia have something to do with it? Maybe. Did the CIA or LBJ?
> I doubt it very much. Was it a coverup or a fuckup? In any case
> we shall never know.

I repeat myself, do not obfuscate things that are irrelevant to the
arguments of a cover up by government officials with SHIT like the "other
investigations". What is relevant is the warren commissions findings and how
absurd they are. This is important because it shows that the government was
involved with covering up, misinforming and dis-information of the facts
surrounding the assassination of an elected, the highest elected official in
our country. The same is being done to the 9/11 incidents and the media is
not asking questions to the official statements and their obvious
inconsistencies and absurdities. Daschle was asked to limit his
investigation of a massive failure of our civil defense system and this is
part preventing the truth from getting out. The more investigated the more
inconsistencies will be shown.

Thanks for posting this article. It begs answers why it's OK for INS to be
scolded by Congess and Bush in public appearences who claims that a full
investigation and revamping of this agency is needed. In contrast,
Congress was asked to back off an investigation asking why our civil
defenses failed, who did or didn't do what and when, who didn't inform who
with valuable information prior to the attack, who or what was done with
this information after it was known. Why and how these were allowed to
happen is not the focus, but how these guys got in the country and stayed
past their visas.

> As I said government employees are screw ups.

Yes but a more realistic statement would be procedures are more fucked up so
lets get all the facts and then make some changes. But since it would point
to one or more government agencies or people were complicit there will be no
investigation and scapegoats only. How these guys got into the country is
not as important as how they were so successful in commandeering jets and
using them as weapons in their Hollywood scheme.

>
> >
> > What they have released as an explanation to this days events is
laughable,
> > unacceptable and isn't being reported in the US Media i.e TV. There has
been
> > no realistic investigation in how this attack was successful. Stop being
an
> > apologist for my governments/media 1) ineptitude or 2) complicity in
hiding
> > the facts of how the evil-doer of comic book proportions was so
successful
> > in its attacks. Stop using the lame excuse that one agency doesn't talk
to
> > the other. Accountability is needed not ass an kissing "I am a patriot"
flag
> > waving because my government and its agencies are very credible.
> >

> > > > Read Brzezinski "The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and its
> > > > Geostrategic Imperatives". It will explain everything including what
> > > > would be needed to get the American people to support the unspoken
agenda.
>
> I will as soon as I get a chance. Promise

Why do I sense sarcasm? You just will not believe the US Government would
pull a stunt like this and see it as collateral damage for the big picture.
I know it is horrifying but it is true.

>
> > > > >
> > > > >Because of some multi level cover-up?
> > > > >
> > > > If there is no cover-up why was the investigation into 9/11
discouraged?
> > > > Does one who blindly believe in their government regardless of its
track
> > > > record? These could be considered nut jobs with the history of our
> > > > government.
> > >
> > > Discouraged by whom?
> >
> > How is it that you are so full of knowledge yet need to ask this
question?
> > BUSH, CHENEY called Daschle personally and requested this. They made
claims
> > of it using unecessary resources and would prevent what really needed to
be
> > done.
> >
> > This is discouragement! This is unspoken words that state "it is
unimportant
> > to know why this happened". These guys need to go as quickly as possible
and
> > I only wish to jail for many serious crimes and cover ups.
>
> Would you please be so kind as to provide a link or reference?
> I would like to read it, I must have missed it.

Oh boy here it is:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/29/inv.terror.probe/index.html

>
> >
> > > The investigation was quite thorough it just didn't give the results
> > > that you wanted.
> >
> >
> > Incorrect, there was no thorough investigation! And if you insist
provide me
> > a link with its findings!

**I am still waiting for the link that pulls up a thorough investigation
surrounding the 9/11 events, how they unfolded and why they were quite
sucsessful.**

Where can the results of the thorough investigation be found?

> >
> > > Muslim Arabs did it not the U.S. Government.
> >
> > Provide me/us with proof! Did the stock options placed on 9/11 lead to
> > Muslims? No one knows because they haven't released their findings! It
is
> > pretty apparent why they haven't. It would show governmental complicity
in
> > some shape or form.
>
> So, you cannot prove any reference or link because it has not been
> released? Perhaps there is no link and hence no governmental
> complicity?

I will provide further links if you are serious with carrying this flag
waving "my government is not complicit" debate. You have not backed claims
that I've ask you to.

>
> Ok here is one:
> http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/091401hj.htm

Yes I am aware of this alleged truth. But this surely is not your idea of a
thorough investigation which is centered around alleged highjackers released
3 days after. This list is untrue and men on this list have turned up alive
around the world. Don't ask me to provide the link. It is out there use
Google.

What Corporations were ruined?

>
> >
> > > Insurance companys will have to pay out billions of
> > > dollars they may not be ruined but they will be hurt.
> >
> > What corporations were ruined?
>
> The ones that had office space in the WTC. Many of those companys
> were wiped out.

Wiped out?

They folded?

Can you provide me names of these corporations? Just supply me with names.

>
> >
> > What corporations has anyone charged with carrying this attack out?
>
> None.

So why did you make this statement above?

: "To wage war in Afghanistan? A conspiracy that would ruin the very

corporations that allegedly carried it out and seriously hurt the US
economy, kill thousands of innocent people and cost billions of
dollars, then just accept the fact that it was carried out by religious
fanatics that want to see America hurt."

I am waiting for your reply.

>
> >
> > Insurance companies can easily recouped their loses by my previous
> > statement.
> >
> > > What companies have actually benefited?
> >
> > Military Manufacturers! How nice, I hope you placed your bets on them at
the
> > moment the exchange reopened.
>
> So you think that there was a conspiracy in the "Military Industrial
> Complex" that needed business so badly they would sponsor an attack on
> the WTC and the Pentagon so that they could sell more material? Are
> they the only ones?

Don't simplify a complicated matter that has many angles. OK. Read
Brzezinski and understand.

>
> >
> > > Construction companys? Fire truck and police car companies? The
airlines?
> >
> > The airlines got 1.5 billion dollars from Bush.
>
> The airlines were in serious trouble before Sept. 11 and people are
> still afraid to travel on commercial airlines. Besides that money
> has not as yet been approved and given to the two airlines involved.

http://fyi.cnn.com/2001/fyi/news/09/24/airline.bailout/

I had my decimal point wrong it was $15 billion but it was passed. It
doesn't matter that they were in financial trouble prior to 9/11/01 what
matters is that they beniffited from the 9/11 events. This was a response to
a question you asked. remember it is located not to far above: " What
company's have actually benifitted?"

>
> > >
> > > The economy will bounce back but why would the U.S. Government do
this?
> > >
> > How many times will your kind ask this stupid question?
>
> My kind? I will ask this "stupid" question until I and "my kind" get
> an intelligent and reasonable answer. So far I have not.

Lie!!

You have received many explanations from me and have been pointed to one
reference specifically.

Now go get the book and work on the denial you have about this? I know you
don't want to be because it is horrific, but you must educate yourself. Then
speak about this with loved ones.

All I get
> are rumors, speculations, and theories. Who makes up the
> "Government"? Is it not American citizens? Do you really think
> that they would harm their own husbands, wives, mothers, fathers
> and children?

These are legitimate questions which when taking all these facts in creates
a healthy disillusion. We the people don't make all the decisions like we
are led to believe, actually men in very high positions are not elected,
they are appointed. Listen be angry about what I am telling you because it
is an unconscionable scenario. If you read the book it will help you
understand why these things were considered a necessity. I am angry myself,
things could have been done differently with out collateral damage including
loss of life and some much devastation. The fact is that this type of
incident is what was needed to get citizens backing this alleged war on
terror which has a hidden agenda mapped out in Brzezinski's book. This guy
is a statesmen and this is all about oil and its geostrategics.

I appreciate true words for I am anti-government and not anti-American. But
I am showing you what the facts are and pointing out the propaganda and
diversions to these events.

>
> >
> > Fact:
> >
> > They government had reports through intelligence about these things.
> >
> > Law enforcement arrested a known terrorist in the months prior to 9/11
who
> > had in his possesion manuals and maps pertaining to these types of
> > incidents.
> >
> > Law enforcement also had a flight school instructer/owner notify them
> > repeatedly without action. This is complicity!
>
> Fact:
>
> Due to typical bumbling they let these people, except for one, slip
> right through their fingers. The various departments were warned
> about this kind of attack and chose to ignore it, not because of
> a conspiracy, but because they were too proud and arrogant to think
> that such a thing could actually happen to the United States.

Are you sure it was pride? Do you know that it had nothing to do with
geopolitical imperatives? Of course you don't until you read the book.

> The same thing happened before the attack on Pearl Harbor on
> December 7, 1941. There were reports of submarines and aircraft
> in the area and no one did anything about it.

Correct! Now do a Google and find out why. Its there my good man.

I was dedicated to marrying a sexy, fertile playboy bunny but it didn't turn
out that way.

>They were not some stupid suicide
> bombers but well educated and intelligent people. You must not
> underestimate these fanatics. They are well trained, well financed
> and committed to the destruction of western civilization so that it
> will be replaced by a world ruled by the Muslim religion.

They were idiots being fooled into doing this. These guys were selected
because they were impressionable and weak.

>
> > > The anti-hijacking technology that you speak of discussed but not
> > > implemented. Do you have incontrovertible proof that it was in use on
> > > Sept. 11?
> >
> > You claim it was not and show no proof. Yet it is more plausible that
these
> > professionally guided jets were controlled by global hawk than by some
> > inept, inexperienced pilots who failed their piper training but now
could
> > successfully find the targets and strike them. with such precision.
>
> You claim it was and show no proof. Yes, it is entirely plausible
> that terrorists piloted these aircraft. If you remember correctly
> they were trained on jet aircraft simulators, the weather was clear
> and they hit a target that is almost impossible to miss, two 110
> story towers. All they had to do was follow the Hudson River which
> led them right to the WTC. Speculation is that the third aircraft was
> supposed to attack the White House but the hijackers hit the Pentagon,
> the largest office building in the world, instead. The cockpit of the
> fourth aircraft was stormed by the passengers and subsequently
> crashed in Pennsylvania. The target for that airliner is, as far
> as I know, unknown.

OK. I acknowledge this is plausable.

>
> >
> > > Who said all traffic controllers been prevented from speaking to the
> > > media?
> >
> > The US government said so, I haven't seen one report surrounding any
> > statements by ATC people who are under a gag order. Hmm, wonder what
they
> > are trying to hide?
>
> I am sorry but I have read no such report. Would you please supply a
> reference for me?

How about you provide some links with ATC statements. That will clear it up
and blow my conspiracy to smithereens. won't it? I have even looked
endlessly
for an anonymous quote and haven't found one. Usually we get all kinds of
info
surrounding air disasters including ATC info and statements from ATC.

>
> >
> >
> > >Besides didn't you say that the media was in on it?
> >
> > Cite it!
>
> Ok here it is:
>
> > > > They (media) have taken the position of patriots by not questioning
> > > > these peculiar, incomplete, and farfetched statements with no
serious
> > > > follow up questions.
>
> Did you say it or not? Or was it Eastman?

I did say the above but I never claimed they were responsible for the
attacks.

>
> >
> > The American media is on nothing surrounding the failure of our
defenses!!
> > OK.
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > These attacks were carried out by terrorists not the US Government
or
> > > > > major corporations.
> > > > >
> > > > I ask you again bring something to the discussion to help your
claims.
> > > > Past or present events or statements by government officials.
>
> How about the bombing of the American Embassys in Africa? The suicide
> attack on the USS Cole? What about the recent kidnap and murder of
> Mr. Richard Pearl? The recent attack on churches in Pakistan? The
> kidnaping and murder of tourists in the Philippians? Were these
> actions not the result Muslim militants? Do you see a pattern here?
> Or was that the United States Government? Or major corporations
> trying to drum up business?

This does not acquit the US governments complicity on 9/11. Sure these
events you just listed happened, but it doesn't factually relieve the
government from its complicity.

Can you please reread what I said?

>By not removing this Islamic threat things will just get
> worse. Expect more attacks. Perhaps biological or atomic the
> next time.

Oh for sure the evil-doers are suppoerted by the CIA. WAMY in Virginia,
Bin Ladens brother was asked to put it together.

Take a look at this link. Play the video in *ram format.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/PAL201A.html

>
> I think that at this juncture we have to agree to disagree.
> There is nothing I can say to convince you that there is no
> governmental conspiracy at work here and that these acts of
> terror were committed by radical Muslim religious fanatics
> that are willing to die for their cause which is the total
> domination of the world by the Islamic fundamentalist religion.
> And I doubt you can convince me that it is otherwise.

If you refuse to read Brzezinski, see the implications, inconsistencies and
the secrecy around 9/11
by the government then you don't want to be convinced. Don't continue to try
disproving me without having the facts and you will not until you look at
everything I mention collectively.

Mr. Y

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 22, 2002, 11:59:54 AM3/22/02

Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.0203...@posting.google.com>...

Among other things Mr. Y says:

> Discouraged by whom? The investigation was quite thorough it just
> didn't give the results that you wanted. Muslim Arabs did it not
> the U.S. Government.

> New York City is in an economic crisis they are cutting programs left
> and right. Insurance companys will have to pay out billions of
> dollars they may not be ruined but they will be hurt. What companies
> have actually benefited? Construction companys? Fire truck and
> police car companies? The airlines? The economy will bounce back
> but why would the U.S. Government do this?

Mr. Yee asserts that nothing can be uncovered and tied with a nice
"fancy bow." In other words he negates your powers of detection and
reason. This is obviously false in general, and, as the following
will
demonstrate, it is also false in the case of uncovering the deception
involving the small jet that approached the Pentagon horizontally at
tree-top level and fired a missile that led the plane to the target
-- all there for you to see for yourself on video-camera proof
supplied courtesy of the under-estimating-us Pentagon. See for
yourself -- replicate the Bosankoe findings.
--
I will send the complete documentation of Bosankoe's "missile-firing,
horizonal-approaching small jet" discovery from Defense Department
grounds security videos;
including instructions for replicating Bosankoe's enlargement results.
See bottom of this message. --Dick Eastman
======================
Various letters:
-------------------
From Joel Skousen:

Dick, This foto and the other one you don't show are important--for
they
may show evidence of a smaller plane--but not to the degree you are
saying.
You go too far in stating the fire hot spot you point out is the entry
hole.
The other picture on the site seems to show a much larger section of
the
building where no windows are present--indicating that the smoke
covered
hole could be as high as 3 stories. there is simply too much smoke
obscuration in the central portion to rule out a much larger hole.

Joel

See http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk for photographic
evidence.
Why this is the hole -- more photographic evidence.

==================

You can quote this:
---
I have shown P1010016.jpg to a man who has served in the British Royal
Air
Force. He wishes to remain anonymous, but strongly express the opinion
that
the hole was consistent with the impact of a small jet plane.

Dave Bosankoe

==========

B. Pauling writes:

IF THE MISSING PLANE WAS THE ONLY ISSUE THEN THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS
WOULD BE PERTINENT. As it stands the [Defense Department's] 9/11 Story
has about 500 holes in it that are ludicrous. Based upon the other 500
holes ...the contention that there was no plane holds water. Get real.

Also get real.....Atta's paper passport flies out of his pocket, out
of the
plane in an inferno, out of the WTC --another inferno and shows up
intact
in the street. There are another 500 equally ridiculous assertions
made by
the government about 9/11. Also Bush sits in a school in a
pre-announced
location reading of a GOAT!!!!!! in the middle of a terrorist attack.
Friends if this had been a real terrorist attack the school would have
been
a likely target for an air or ground attack. Normal proceedure is to
whisk
the president to safety even when location not pre-announced. You
people are
hopelessly brainwashed if you can't see evidence when it is right in
front
of your face. Get real. People you'd have to be an idiot to believe
this.

B. Pauling
=====================

==============

I have one problem - in the UK there are more spy cameras than
anywhere
else on earth - just about the only activity one may do without being
on camera is to go to the toilet -
now as the Pentagon is a Defense Department building are you telling
me
there are no surveillance cameras installed around it? Are you
telling
me that after the 1993 attempt to blow the WTC up the FBI and the DoD
and NSA did NOTHING to improve visual surveillance around the Pentagon
-

that is what I find odd - just a crummy camera in a parking lot which
doesn't work very well..............

and no engines.

=================================

DRUDGE REPORT
WED MARCH 20, 2002 09:42:69 ET
http://www.drudgereport.com/mattfp.htm

PENTAGON POLICE GRAB TAPE FROM FOX NEWSMAN

A FOX NEWS cameraman was accosted by Pentagon Police outside the
building on
Tuesday -- as he was shooting pictures of an arrest being carried out
by
Virginia State Police on a highway that runs alongside the Pentagon
but
outside Pentagon property!

The FOX staffer was ordered to turn over the videotape.

When he balked, he was handcuffed.

His camera was immediately seized and the tape was confiscated.

"Is this America!?" demanded a news producer at the network's DC
bureau.

"He was subsequently released with his camera but the Pentagon is
refusing
to return the tape," FOX's Brit Hume explained to viewers.

The nation's top-rated all-news channel is preparing to lodge a formal
complaint with officials, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Hume calls the episode a "disturbing development" which may reflect on
the
new "restrictive information policies of the Defense Department."

A FOX Source notes: "We still don't have the tape and they haven't
given us
any indication of when we might expect it -- It makes you wonder who
is on
it?"

Developing...

Filed By Matt Drudge

===================

Dick....

Your on target.... American Airlines color scheme is mainly
"American
Airlines Blue"..... Although they do use red, the phony piece of
fuselage does not adhere to their scheme as I have seen....

Chuck.....
==================
Subject: Flight 77 -

From: Ed Toner capt...@comcast.net

Ret TWA Feb. after 30 years.
ATP B-707, 720, 727, 747, 757, 767 & L-1011.

To: ap...@apfn.org
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=21027

I really don't have all the answers to this Flt. 77 thing, but based
on what
I have seen on several web sites of conspiratol nature, I believe in
general
that the question of the aircraft not hitting the Pentagon is foolish.

The lack of aircraft wreckage - How long AFTER the crash/explosion
were
these photo's taken? Are there no photo's taken immediately after the
crash?
Are there no photo's of the wreckage being carted away? Were there no
human
remains to be found, particularly of PAZ seated in the rear of the
aircraft?

On the lack of a photo of a B-767 A/C just before the strike - Were
there no
eye-witness's who saw this stupendous event/explosion? I would think
that
there were many. How about sky-cams, security cameras, guards,
passerby's
etc.? Have none come foreward?

Personally, I am surprised by the amount of damage caused by this A/C.
Mostly aluminum, crashing into reinforced concrete devestated the area
where
it hit. How, I wonder. I am not a structural engineer however, and
perhaps
this IS possible. Jet fuel is not particularly volatile, and I would
not
expect an explosion, yet there appears that there was one. We should
be
looking for an answer to this.

I am not at all against conspiracy theories and investigations. In
fact I am
very much interested in these things. For instance, I am quite
convinced
that TWA 800 was not blown up by her own fuel tank. I took a personal
interest in this one because it is the very A/C that I flew in Sept.
1972
for my B-747 ATP Rating . Many believe it was a missle, but I suspect
that a
bomb was more likely. The nose section seperated from the rest of the
fuselage at the same frame that PAA did over Lockerbie.

I'll add more if you like, after you examine my comments here, and
respond.

Ed Toner - capt...@comcast.net - 3/19/02

ATP B-707, 720, 727, 747, 757, 767 & L-1011.

Ret TWA Feb. 1987 after 30 years.
=======================================

Dear Dick

As a former consultant to the educational world, I can say that not
all
academics are willing to trade conscience and soul for an income.
There are
still a few - perhaps 20% - of that community, and about the same
proportion
in public service, who are doing the job that needs to be done, ie.
empowerment.

The point I want to make here, is that 80% in both domains fit your
description of paid minions. But please remember the 20%, and offer a
silent prayer of thanks for the sacrifies they make for the truth.
People-power depends on their work for the baseline research which
confutes
the Liemaking Machine.

With every kind wish,

L. K.
=======================

W.K. writes:

"The police acted on an FBI alert after the men allegedly were seen
acting
strangely while watching the events from the roof of their warehouse
and the
roof of their van."

Acting "strangely" doesn't begin to convey to the reader what they
were
REALLY doing, which was engaging in a frenzy of laughing and
celebrating
which intensified when the second plane slammed into the second World
Trade
Center tower. (How ironic that, thanks to the U. S. media, when most
Americans think of people celebrating the events of 911 they
invariably
think of the Palestinian kids who Israeli Jews bribed with candy to
celebrate as their cameras rolled, rather than these Israeli adults
who
knowingly celebrated the 911 WTC crashes AS THEY HAPPENED.

While the former received lots of U. S. media coverage in the
aftermath of
911, provoking great but misguided indignation in Americans, the
latter has
all but been
blacked-out but for The American Free Press and the Internet.)

In sum , I think it's beyond certain by now that the Israelis (and by
that I
mean those celebrating on the roof, the Israeli intelligence services
and
Israel's high government officials) knew of the WTC and Pentagon plots
well
before they occurred. And Bush LIED when he said, during his speech to
Congress, that numerous Israelis were killed in the 911 events -- of
the
thousands killed in the World TRADE Center, including even scores of
Filipinos, just *one* Israeli was killed. (Remember, Israeli's #1
daily
newspaper, Ha'aretz, itself reported that the Israeli software firm
Odigo
received warning of the first WTC attack 2 hours before it happened --
what,
you mean you DIDN'T learn about this by reading USA Today or watching
US
network news? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!)

========

SPY CASE IN CANADIAN COURTS SUGGESTS US NAVAL OFFICER HAD
FOREKNOWLEDGE OF 9-11

by Michael C. Ruppert

[Copyright 2002, Michael C. Ruppert and From The Wilderness
Publications, http://www.copvcia.com/, all rights reserved.
May be reposted, reprinted or distributed for non-profit
purposes only when this statement appears with the text.]

TORONTO, [Filed January 25, 2002, and Revised January 28,
2002] ? EDITORIAL NOTE: In our original story we indicated
that the note written by Delmart "Mike" Vreeland had been
sealed in court records. We based this on a misreading of
Canadian press stories. In fact, the warning of the World
Trade Center attacks, written by Vreeland on either August
11th or 12th has been introduced into open evidence in
Vreeland's case in Toronto. Using court records in our
possession, FTW has scanned the document and it is available

for viewing in this story. We apologize for the error.
Following is a revised story which we feel is the best way
to present this important information in context.]
----------
Delmart Edward "Mike" Vreeland, an American citizen whose
claims to being a US Naval Lieutenant assigned to the Office

of Naval Intelligence (ONI) are being increasingly
corroborated in open court, has been in a Canadian jail
since December 6, 2000. On August 11 or 12 of 2001, the date

is uncertain, after trying to verbally alert his Canadian
jailers to the coming World Trade Center attacks, he wrote
down key information and sealed it in an envelope which he
then had placed in jailers' custody. This event is not
disputed by Canadian authorities. The letter specifically
listed a number of targets including The Sears Towers, The
World Trade Center, The White House, The Pentagon, The World

Bank, The Canadian parliament building in Ottawa and the
Royal Bank in Toronto.

A chilling sentence follows the list of targets, "Let one
happen. Stop the rest!!!"

When the envelope was opened on September 14th it set off
alarms in the US and Canada.

The US wants Vreeland back in the States on a Michigan
warrant for credit card fraud ? using his own credit card.
Vreeland, convinced that a return to the US means certain
death, wants to stay in Canada in a witness protection
program. His lawyers Rocco Galati and Paul Slansky, two
former Canadian prosecutors, agree with Vreeland's
assessment. They should. Both have been the victims of
harassment and threats including dead cats hung on porches
and car windows smashed out in car burglaries.

The position of the United States government, as represented

by Crown Solicitors in Toronto, is that all of this is
nonsense. Vreeland, says the Navy, was discharged as a
Seaman after a few months of service for unsatisfactory
performance in 1986. He has never had anything to do with
intelligence according to 1200 pages of Navy records filed
in Toronto Superior Court.

"How is it," says Galati, "that the Navy says that he was
only in the service a few months and then send us a 1200
page personnel file? Some of the entries are obvious
forgeries or alterations and the sanitizing of his records
was done so hurriedly that some dates of medical exams in
the 1990s were left intact."

In a January 10, 2002 tactic worthy of Perry Mason, with the

greatest possible risk to his client if it failed, attorney
Slansky got the judge to agree to let him call the Pentagon
from open court. Using a speaker phone, in front of at least

six witnesses, Slansky first dialed directory information
and got a number for the Pentagon switchboard. Then, calling

that number he asked the Department of Defense operator to
locate the office of Lt. Delmart Vreeland. Within moments
the operator had confirmed Vreeland's posting, his rank as a

Lieutenant O-3, his room number and given Slansky his
direct-dial number.

All of this is a part of the court record.

On January 17, as this writer sat in the courtroom, another
mind-numbing event occurred.

As Vreeland sat shackled in a corner, closely flanked by two

guards, the Crown Solicitor sought to debunk Vreeland's
assertions that he had been assigned to travel to Moscow to
review and retrieve highly technical and classified
documents pertaining to Russian and Chinese efforts to
counter the proposed US "Star Wars" missile defense system.
[Ed note: FTW believes this to be a cover story.] "Why,"
said the Crown Solicitor, "would the US choose, in a case
involving some of the most highly technical intelligence, a
random seaman with training in the tool and die field." The
point that someone discharged in 1986 with no special
training and rank would be sent to review technical
documents sounded reasonable ? assuming that Vreeland's
background was as the Solicitor argued.

The reasonableness vanished a few moments later as the Crown

Solicitor argued that Vreeland, who has been in jail and
without access to a computer for thirteen months, had
somehow cracked the Pentagon's personnel records and
inserted his name, an office number, and telephone extension

into the Pentagon database.

No one except for Vreeland and attorney Galati seemed to
notice the contradiction.

The Crown Solicitor ventured further through the looking
glass by then arguing that Vreeland, having certain papers
in his possession at the time of his arrest, had memorized
Russian and Albanian documents and then had translated them
from memory. Vreeland doesn't speak Russian or Albanian. The

judge, noticing this stretch of credibility, asked the
Solicitor to restate the point. The argument then became
that Vreeland had an unnamed colleague go to an unspecified
web site, print Russian and Albanian documents for him, and
then used foreign language dictionaries to translate them.

Vreeland's extradition process could take years and his time

in jail has not been easy. There have been threats,
illnesses and his every move is watched. Galati and Slansky
wonder how long his psyche will hold up. The history of
jailhouse deaths of key witnesses leans heavily in favor of
Vreeland's belief that he could be killed at any moment. His

apparent strategy is to not reveal any accurate Top Secret
material to either his lawyers or the press, hoping that his

silence will provide him with some support from US
clandestine services. This a standard approach taken in
dozens of similar cases researched by FTW in the past They
include the cases ? well known in research circles ? of
William Tyree and Michael Riconosciuto. Tyree has been
jailed on a questionable murder conviction since 1979 and
Riconosciuto on a variety or drug-related charges since the
early 1990s. Both men have been directly connected to CIA
and other intelligence operations by official documents.

"We don't need to know and we don't want to know the secret
details, "says Galati. "They're not necessary for us to do
the job of keeping our client alive and in Canada. He faces
a special danger in the US because he has also been an
informant against an organized crime family in Michigan
where the criminal charges originate. The most he is facing
there is two years but we believe he might not live for two
days in that system."

Additional press reports indicate that Vreeland's
intelligence work was connected to drug smuggling ? a much
more likely reason for his trip to Moscow. And the history
of the relations between Naval Intelligence and the mafia is

documented as far back as the Second World War when ONI
officers made deals with convicted mafia don Lucky Luciano
and his lieutenant Vito Genovese to protect New York docks
and assist with the subsequent Allied invasion and
occupation of Italy.

Mike Vreeland is one man who, in a rational world, could
totally expose the complicity of the US government in the
attacks of September 11th. No one has disputed what he wrote

and stuffed into that envelope. In a rational world that
would be the most pressing and public inquiry of all. The
two questions remaining are whether Vreeland will live and
whether or not he will ever tell what he knows. That may be
a mutually exclusive proposition.

FTW has retained the services of freelance journalist Greta
Knutsen in Toronto to report on developments in this
critical case for our subscribers. Important updates will be

posted and sent out via subscriber bulletin to our readers
as they become available.

[The Warning Written by Mike Vreeland Before 9-11]

Click image to enlarge. File size is approximately 66kb - it

may take a moment to load. When image is clicked, a new
windo will open.
==============

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

From: Ed Toner
To: eas...@compwrx.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Flight 77 - Toner/Eastman

Ed says:

There was a huge pile of metal debris in a photo posted on the
Conspiracy discussion forum. I believe it was from a retired captain.

There is no reason why the pilot would even try to fly between the
poles - the plane was obviously in a dive.

The damage was done by the aircraft which was flying AA Flt 77.

The debris was from that aircraft.

There is no other explanation, as far as I'm concerned.

Ed Toner
.........................................

Hi, Ed.

I have heard some say the plane was in a dive -- but think back --
what evidence convinced you that the crash was "an obvious dive" when
even the Defense Department and witnesses say the plane bounced on the
lawn before hitting the wall? Witnesses say the plane came in at
treetop level. In fact that is what the video camera shows.

The Defense Department Security camera captured this:

Note the missile plume in the first scene. Notice the small-plane
back silhouette.

Love our armed forces enough to admit it when criminals and foreign
powers have
taken it over and conduct operations that kill thousands of Americans
and murder
the Naval Intelligence Officers that might have uncovered them.
--------------------------
From: Ed Toner
To: Dick Eastman
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: Flight 77 - Toner/Eastman

It was obviously descending, or it would not have hit the ground. A
"dive" is a descent, and a descent is a dive.

If Flt 77 did not do this, then where is it?

Ed
==========================

Ed,

Draw a line from the small jet in the first frame to the point on the
Pentagon wall that is the center/source of the explosion. Its a
horizontal line, isn't it.

The video camera and the first witnesses say that the plane came in
low at tree-top level.

Show me evidence, any evidence of a bounce.

What only some of the -- the honest ones, that is -- interpreted as a
bounce of the plane on the ground -- must be a perception error upon
seeing the split-second firing of the missile from beneith the small
jet's wing (this is shown in the Bosankoe evidence, above) the bump is
actually the missile plume -- see the white exhaust of this missile
under the wing of the jet -- the missile that led the jet into the
target by a fraction of a second -- to make sure the wreckage would be
"swallowed" and out of site.

No other explanation fits the hard by-direct-inspection evidence.

I gave up my theory of explosive charges inside the Pentagon when I
saw the Bosankoe evidence.

Do you have some reason for not wanting to accept the "small
jet/horizontal approach" hard-evidence supplied by the Pentagon from
its own grounds-security video camera.

Dick

=========
Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington

(I will send the complete documentation of my discussions with
Bosankoe at the time of his discovery -- as well as his description
of how to replicate his enlargement yourself using the Defense
Department raw data and the exact enlargement software he used. (I
invite anyone to use other software and turn this horizontal-appraoch
fighter-jet and missile firing into a diving Boeing 727 that bounces
into the Pentagon. So far -- and thousands have seen the Bosankoe
evidence -- no one has produced such an enlargement.)

Request the BOSANKOE DOCUMENTATION from eas...@compwrx.com

http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine

http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick

http://www.apfn.org
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk Dave Bosankoe
www.narconews.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com

FLIGHT 77: SHOW ME THE PLANE!
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=19665

911 - TERROR IN AMERICA
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_part2.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part3.htm
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_part4.htm

Request the BOSANKOE DOCUMENTATION from eas...@compwrx.com

Both Bosankoe and I were convinced by the data. He was agruing the
official Boeing 757 explanation and I was agruing that planted
charges withing the Pentagon were responsible. Then the data itself
changed both our minds.

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 22, 2002, 3:15:40 PM3/22/02

Mr. Eastman has made mistake which is noted below:

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
news:9ecacd20.02032...@posting.google.com...

> Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message
news:<97651508.0203...@posting.google.com>...
> > "Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message
news:<bXvk8.2145$Wp2.5...@news02.optonline.net>...
> > > "Angel Elf" <Ange...@AngelFire.com> wrote in message
> > > news:97651508.02031...@posting.google.com...
>
>
> Among other things Mr. Y says:
>
> > Discouraged by whom? The investigation was quite thorough it just
> > didn't give the results that you wanted. Muslim Arabs did it not
> > the U.S. Government.
>
> >
> > New York City is in an economic crisis they are cutting programs left
> > and right. Insurance companys will have to pay out billions of
> > dollars they may not be ruined but they will be hurt. What companies
> > have actually benefited? Construction companys? Fire truck and
> > police car companies? The airlines? The economy will bounce back
> > but why would the U.S. Government do this?

I, Mr. Y did not make the above statements Andrew Carol did...

>
> Mr. Yee asserts that nothing can be uncovered and tied with a nice
> "fancy bow." In other words he negates your powers of detection and
> reason. This is obviously false in general, and, as the following
> will
> demonstrate, it is also false in the case of uncovering the deception
> involving the small jet that approached the Pentagon horizontally at
> tree-top level and fired a missile that led the plane to the target
> -- all there for you to see for yourself on video-camera proof
> supplied courtesy of the under-estimating-us Pentagon. See for
> yourself -- replicate the Bosankoe findings.

Another mistake above is made by Dicky E.

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 22, 2002, 10:40:23 PM3/22/02

"John Judge" <ja...@judgement.no-ip.com> wrote in message news:<9d5k8.13928$RJ4.81793@NewsReader>...

> "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message

> news:9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com...
> > Writing to newsgroups is like writing in sand on the ocean beach. It
> > is all soon lost in the ebb and flow. We don't stay with what we
> > know long enough to act on what we know, to push what we know in front
> > of those who don't want to hear it but need to anyway.
> >
> > So much has been established about the frame-up and then passed by.
> > We know who did it and why. But then what? -- seeing nothing happen
> > we then
> > spent our time and effort looking for a "smoking gun" that will wake
> > up
>
> I agree with much of what you said, but at the end of the day, what *can* we
> do ? For something like the 4th year on the trot now London will play host
> to another May-Day mass protest, all that happens is the police get more
> draconian, more liberties (such as they were) are stripped away and
> frustration grows all round. No doubt this year's brave souls will be
> labelled "traitors" and terrorist sympathisers by an increasingly right-wing
> media.
>
> But have these guys changed anything over the last four years ? Nothing
> substantial and if the efforts of a couple of thousand energetic protesters
> concentrating their efforts on a single focus point have no effect then what
> chance have a few people scribbling away in newsgroups got ?
>
> I'm sorry mate, but short of crossing a very serious line in terms of
> morals, ethics and legality I can't see much point in doing much else apart
> from accepting the status quo.
>
> JJ
>
> <who is feeling very jaded at the moment>

John it is an honor to have you reading one of my posts.

In newsgroups you really do see only the tip of the iceberg.
There are hecklers who are quickly identified and ignored.
There are a few discussants who contribute solid facts and
analysis. But when the public senses that they are not being
told the truth on a subject -- as in this case -- relevant
newsgroup postings get around like wildfire.

We have already seen the Administration responding to newsgroup
and list 911 investigations by providing the bogus bin Laden tape
and their fatal mistake the quick blur Pentagon security tape that
revealed more than they suspected. (Someone goofed in the cover-up --
or maybe it was an intentional leak -- a happy thought -- and it
may cost them the store.)

Something fundamental is breaking loose.

I'd like to see you get in on this investigation.

With admiration,

Dick Eastman
Yakima

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 23, 2002, 10:20:24 AM3/23/02

eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message news:<9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com>...

Not always true. Hold on to your seat:

CO-PILOT (and Eastman) VINDICATED: EgyptAir 990 10/31/99
REMOTE-CONTROL CRASHJACKING What is there left to be proved??????

I've been asked what happened to Flight 77 if a small jet took out
Naval Intelligence at the Pentagon. The answer is simple: The same
thing that happened to EgyptAir 990,
which must have been a "two-birds-with-one-stone" practice run for
9/11/01.
-------

First, here is a post of Sunday, November 04, 2001 6:22 AM (the, item
#1 wtc bomb story is also still valid and still extremely important,
read it also -- it is merely on the "back burner" for now while the
"smoking gun"proof of small-jet-with-missile attack of Pentagon
evidence is being distributed).

[Note: It was just the next day that my wolfenet ISP cancelled my
subscription for "overposting" newsgroups.]

From: "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com>
To: <edi...@villagevoice.com>; "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 6:22 AM
Subject: [SonsofLiberty] urgent 1) N. Tower Planted Bomb 2) Hijackers
themselves "stung" 3) ... DON'T OPEN ATTACHMENTS FROM ME --.....

Item #1:
The FBI offices on the 23rd floor of the North Tower were bombed to
prevent
agents from removing grand jury evidence stored there following the
jet
crashbombings. Evidence for this was given on the CBS news program 60
Minutes, although CBS seems unaware of its implications.

"Steve," from Main, who recorded the broadcast, has given me, over the
phone
and into my tape recorder, his recording of a segment of the CBS
interview.
Here is my careful transcription (lots of "rewind" and "play"
buttonwork) of
that recording.

Steve's intro: This is a segment of the 60 minutes report,
mid-October.
They're interviewing the Chief of Security for the World Center
Towers. The
60 Minutes reporter is doing the interview of George Tabeek [phonetic
spelling of audio -- could be "Tabeak," etc.] They are talking about
him and
a fire fighter named Andy Desparino.

(Steve starts his vhs recording with his phone held to the speaker):

Reporter:
...In another part of the tower George Tabeek got a call that three
Port
Authroity workers were trapped in command center on the 22nd floor.

Tabeek (fuzzy sound-- as if dubbed in from an edited-for broadcast
phone
interview):
I said, "Stay calm, I'll be up there." I went to the battalion chief;
he
assigned a lieutenant -- it's all I know is his first name, his first
name
was Andy ...

Reporter (clear sound-- not phone interview):
Andy Desparino of Engine Company One

Tabeek:
And worked our way all the way up to the twenty-second floor

Reporter (fuzzy -- phone interview clip again):
Are people going down?

Tabeek:
People were coming down. I was telling them, "Please be calm" walk to
the
left

Reporter (clear -- with jet impact sound in background during first
sentence):
What George Tabeek didn't know was that a second jet had just struck
tower
seven (sic) And when they reached the twenty-second floor of Tower One
Desperino and his men tunneled through the debris and opened up a path
for
those trapped inside. Helen Reese, meanwhile, was at another Port
Authority Command Center talking to those unable to get down from the
upper
floors ...

(end of excerpt)

Clearly a bomb went off 50 floors below where the first plane hit
North Tower, on the 23rd floor. This planted bomb collapsed the
ceiling of the 22nd floor. No records would be saved from the
FBI offices.

Item #2:
The hijackers, never suspecting a suicide mission, were "stung," by
Mossad
infiltrators posing as leaders with orders from bin Ladin -- who gave
them
the right passwords and instructions setting the hijacking in motion
-- but
then, when the the hijacking was underway took remote control of the
planes. making turning them into cruise missiles.
I am convinced that no one was knowingly on a WTC suicide mission. The
planes were all taken over by remote control after hijackings wre
begun..
And it was not the first time that a passenger jet was crashed by
remote
sabotage --

EgyptAir 990 was crashed in a "test" for the WTC, on Halloween,
11/31/99.
Exactly two years ago, the American Halloween, EgyptAir flight 990,
a giant Boeing 767 took off from New York bound for Cairo Egypt with
100
Americans and 87 Egyptians aboard.

The takeoff had been successful and routine, but at one half hour into
the
flight, at 1;48;30 ----at a moment when the pilot left the controls
for a
trip to the toilet and the co-pilot was left in the cockpit alone --
an
English voice can be heard on the black box recorder saying "control
it"
The co-pilot was Egyptian and spoke Egyptian in all of the recording.
ne must conclude that someone was listening, overheard the captain say
he was leaving the cockpit, then gave the order to take over control
of the
plane, because, the recording indicates, suddenly, control of the
plane
taken from him, i.e., the cockpit controls were bing overridden. --
After
some seconds the
co-pilot, reacting to his losse of control to a phantom controller,
says,
the Arabic equivalent of "God help us," "My trust is in God" or "In
your
keeping, Lord" --"Tawakkalt ala Allah.")

The co-pilot then disengaged the auto-pilot to restore control.
Cockpit
control was not restored. The co-pilot again said a prayer when the
elevators dropped
putting the plane into a dive. After sixteen seconds of this dive the
Captain returned to the cockpit asking "What happening? Whats
happening?"
Captain and co-pilot were presumably working to pull out of the dive,
but
the controls were not responding and now the throttles still under
phantom
control, turned up to full forward -- at which point the co-pilot
reacted
by cutting the fuel lines. Then, still by phantom control, the right
and
left elevators each moved all the way in the opposite directions and
the
ailerons on both wings both went fully up. The pilot cried "Get away
in the
engines! Shut the engines!" To which the co-pilot
replied, "It's shut." The last words are of the captain frantically
instructing "Pull! Let's pull! Let's pull!" At this point something
shut off
the instrument recorders (or they were later erased).
The American agency investigators, over strenuous Egyptian objections,
concluded that the co-pilot pilot committed suicide!!!???? The
Egyptians --
who understand the language, insist that suicide is an impossible and
absurd interpretation of last moments of conversation recorded or of
the
earlier conversation at takeoff.
------

Take that with the news reported by Don van Natta Jr.and Kate Zernike
in the
11/04/01 New York Times that according to an F.B.I. official, the
prayers
found at the crash site "exort the foot soldiers to be strong in
prison."

In the face of this no reasonable man, given the little we know at
the
moment, could possibley dismiss the possibility that the hijackers,
never
suspecting a suicide mission, were "stung," by infiltrators posing as
leaders with orders from bin Ladin -- who gave them the right
passwords and
instructions setting a non-suicide attention-seeking hijacking in
motion --
but then, when the the hijacking was underway these sting agents took
remote
control of the planes. making turning them into cruise missiles as
part of a
gigantic geopolitical frame-up.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsilbe to every other man.
--------------------------------------------------

NOW THIS MORNING I FIND THIS ON GOOD OL' JEFF RENSE
www.rense.com

Mystery Shrouds EgyptAir
Co-Pilot Blamed For Crash
By Andrea Shalal-Esa (Reuters)
3-22-2

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More than two years of extensive investigation
by the U.S. and Egyptian governments have failed to explain why a
seasoned EgyptAir pilot would deliberately crash an airliner carrying
217 people.

The pilot is at the center of a case that has strained ties between
the United States and key Middle Eastern ally Egypt, which on Thursday
said it would appeal what it called a flawed investigation by the
National Transportation Safety Board.

The U.S. board on Thursday issued a final report in which it blamed
co-pilot Gamiel El Batouty for the Oct. 31, 1999 crash of EgyptAir
Flight 990 into the Atlantic Ocean, but did not explain why the
veteran airman took the plane down as he calmly repeated the phrase "I
rely on God" in Arabic.

U.S. investigators, who complained regularly about a lack of
cooperation by Egyptian authorities, said they had investigated all
probable explanations for the crash, but had to conclude it was caused
by the actions of El Batouty -- and not a mechanical failure as Egypt
insists.

Why the 59-year-old father of five would do such a thing remains
unclear.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has ruled out any criminal intent,
although it did turn up some tawdry tidbits about the pilot, who was
described by relatives and colleagues at the state-owned airline as a
devoted family man.

Sources familiar with the investigation said U.S. officials were
unable to conclusively corroborate one possible explanation -- reports
that El Batouty had just learned he was being demoted and could have
crashed the plane for revenge.

The FBI also found El Batouty had been accused of lewd acts involving
teenage workers at a New York hotel. One room maid claimed El Batouty
propositioned her as many as 20 times and the hotel considered banning
El Batouty because of an alleged pattern of sexual misconduct,
according to FBI documents.

EGYPTAIR SAID PILOT WAS "HARMLESS"

EgyptAir's office in New York initially responded to the allegations
by saying El Batouty was about to retire and was "harmless," the FBI
documents showed.

But investigators were told the airline had disciplined El Batouty the
evening before Flight 990, telling him he would be removed from the
lucrative Los Angeles-Cairo route.

A source familiar with the investigation said the NTSB had never been
able to confirm that information.

The NTSB said El Batouty had a conversation with an EgyptAir 767 pilot
the night before the crash, although it did not include any
information about a possible demotion.

Losing the Los Angeles-Cairo route, with a stop in New York, would
have been a financial blow for any pilot. In El Batouty's case, he
faced extensive medical bills for his youngest child, a 10-year-old
daughter, who was suffering from lupus and had received treatment in
Egypt and Los Angeles. Another of his children was attending
university in Cairo.

El Batouty's family has strongly rejected any suggestion that he could
have deliberately crashed the plane, and even filed lawsuits against
U.S. media for reporting that theory.

The investigation was plagued from the start by political
sensitivities and cultural misunderstandings.

Former NTSB Chairman Jim Hall told CNN Egyptian authorities never
fully cooperated with the U.S. investigation, leaving many questions
unanswered. But the Egyptian Civil Aviation Authority insisted again
on Thursday that it had "cooperated in all aspects of the
investigation," and accused the NTSB of using selected facts to back a
theory that El Batouty deliberately caused the crash.

It said the NTSB initially relied on inaccurate translations of Arabic
words on the cockpit voice recorder, and failed to interpret them with
Egyptian cultural nuances.

For instance, the phrase "Tawakkalt ala Allah," or "I rely on God,"
would "never be used by a person who was about to do an evil deed," it
said.

Copyright © 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication
or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without
the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for
any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in
reliance thereon.
----------

ALSO THIS:

Government Report Exposes Israeli Spy Ring
-----------------------

So, just what part DID Israel play in 9-11?
By: Justin Raimondo <Parano...@yahoogroups.com>
Published in the March 29, 2002 issue of Ether Zone

In the gray, matter-of-fact bureaucratese so typical of a government
document, the leaked "Israeli Art Student Papers" confirm what we have
been
saying in this space all along: that an underground apparatus of
Israeli
covert agents, centered in the southwestern US but extending
nationwide,
carried out extensive operations in the months prior to 9/11. Their
targets
were US government offices, including not only the Drug Enforcement
Administration (as previously reported), but the Immigration and
Naturalization Service, the Federal Protective Service, the Bureau of
Alchohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF), the Federal Bureau of
Investigation,
and a host of other state and federal courthouses and other buildings,
as
well as military bases. There is no long any doubt about whether the
spy
ring existed. Now we are left with the nagging question: what was its
purpose?

UP TO NO GOOD

The leaked document - provided to us by the heroic John Sugg, of
Creative
Loafing (Atlanta) and the Weekly Planet (Tampa) -- describes in
excruciating
detail the doggedly persistent efforts of Israelis claiming to be "art
students" to get into the offices and even the homes of federal law
enforcement agents and government officials. In this 60-odd page
report,
incident is piled on incident until, at a certain point, even the most
mentally challenged reader -- even one who wants to give the Israelis
the
benefit of every doubt -- is forced to conclude that our friends, the
Israelis, were up to no good: and, perhaps, far worse than that..

AN OVERVIEW

We are given, first, a broad overview of this covert operation, where
the
reader learns about:

a.. The timeframe: these Israeli covert ops have been going on, we
are
told, "since at least the beginning of 2000," right up until the weeks
before 9/11.
b.. The geography: the operation extended from California to
Florida,
and, although concentrated in the southwest and Florida, included at
least
40 states. According to the report:
"The Hollywood, Florida, area seems to be a central point for these
individuals, with several having addresses in this area."

a.. The personnel: a majority of Israeli agents intercepted and
interrogated by US law enforcement agencies, including but not limited
to
the DEA, the INS, and the FBI, served in intelligence, electronic
intercept,
and explosive ordnance units of the Israeli army.

SECURITY ALERT!

DEA Internal Security became aware of a systematic effort to bypass
security at their various offices in January of 2001, and the next
month an
official Security Alert was issued, instructing agents to watch for
and
detain these "art students" as they tried to talk their way into the
offices
and homes of DEA personnel. Just how these "students" found the home
addresses of a large number of government employees is what apparently
shocked somnolent federal agencies into action.

THIS IS A RAID

By the end of March, 2001, several law enforcement agencies were on
the
lookout for these students of Israeli "art," and 13 were busted in
Irving,
Texas, on immigration charges, and detained. The detainees were
interrogated, revealing that the two principals of the operation were
Itay
Simon and Michael Calmanovic (pp. 12-13, paragraphs 39-41). The former
was
identified as in charge of the overall operation by an unidentified
Israeli,
while the latter was the leader of the Texas operation. Calmanovic had
rented a number of apartments at two apartment complexes, and the
landlady
at one of them said that the approximately 25 Israelis in five
different
apartments had hurriedly abandoned the place right after the first 13
were
busted.

THE RINGLEADERS

Calmanovic and Simon were tracked down to another apartment complex,
Hidden
Ridge Apartments, also in Irving, where they were interrupted in the
process
of making their escape (p. 15, paragraph 49). Simon told his
interrogators
that he "did 'classified work for the Israeli army.'" According to the
report, "Simon refused to answer questions about his military service"
As
for Calmanovic, he stated that he was a recently discharged
"electronic
intercept operator for the Israeli military" (p. 15, paragraph 50).

THE AMDOCS CONNECTION

Both were arrested on immigration charges, and held on $50,000 bond.
"This
bond was immediately posted," the report says, but we are not told by
whom.
In another case of arrested "art students" of the Israeli persuasion,
we are
told who posted bail: one Ophir Baer, an employee of AMDOCS (p. 13,
paragraph 42), an Israeli-based company that has a virtual monopoly on
phone-billing in the US, and is mentioned prominently both by Carl
Cameron
of Fox News and Paul Rodriguez of Insight magazine in their respective
exposes of Israeli penetration of US communications systems. The
octopus,
once rattled, began to come to the surface..

AN OMINOUS SENSE

Reading the leaked document is a strange experience. The cumulative
effect
of these dry-as-sand descriptions of incident after incident of
attempted
penetration of US government offices and officials' homes is to
instill, in
the reader, an ominous sense of growing urgency. The plot-line, as it
slowly
develops is clear by the time we get to page 17, paragraph 54: this
section
describes an encounter with yet more "discharged" Israeli special
operations
officers at Dallas Fort Worth airport, on their way to join their
fellow
"art students." One of them has a printed-out "read-me" file in his
luggage
with a reference to a file named "DEA Groups." Something tells me hese
are
no ordinary "art students".

AN INTERESTING GUY

According to the report, on March 23, 2001, the Office of National
Drug
Control Strategy (ONDCP) issued a National Security Alert that
described
"the apparent attempts by Israeli nationals to learn about government
personnel and office layouts." In St. Louis, they were caught
"diagramming"
the DEA building. (p. 23, paragraph 71). At the Tampa District Office
of the
DEA, in March 2001, a group of these "students" were apprehended
trying to
enter a locked, unmarked office on the fifth floor of the building,
which no
ordinary member of the public would even realize is a DEA office.
Included
in the haul was one Hanan Serfaty, 24, who told his interrogators that
he
had served in the Israeli army between the ages of 18-21:

"When questioned as to what he did between the ages of 21-24, he
refused to
answer" (p. 27, paragraph 80).

An interesting guy, made even more fascinating by a number of
documents in
his possession: 51 deposit and withdrawal slips from various Florida
banks,
totaling $107,502 in deposits, and $86,000 in withdrawals. Pretty good
money
for a poor Israeli "art student" trying to sell enough paintings to
get by.

A SMOKING GUN

One particularly telling incident took place on May 3, 2001. When
Peer
Segalovitz, 27, showed up at the DEA Orlando District Office, peddling
his
line about being an "Israeli art student," federal agents pounced on
him,
detaining and interrogating him for four hours. According to the
report:

"[He] was untruthful about his reasoning to be in the US for
approximately
the first three hours. Segalovitz finally admitted that he was one of
approximately 30 Israeli art students who are currently in Florida.
{He}
would not admit what their purpose was in Florida, but did state that
they
were not here for legitimate means" (p. 31, paragraph 96).

This innocent "art student" had been a platoon leader in the Israeli
army;
he and his men, Segalovitz told his interrogators, "specialized in
demolition." He also begged the federal agents "not to divulge this
information to Israel, because it would lead to his arrest in Israel."
To
add a real cloak-and-dagger note to this affair, a car that had been
parked
outside the Orlando office as Segalovitz was being interviewed "sped
away"
when approached.

A RIVER NAMED DENIAL

Other highlights of this amazing document: the wife of a member of
the
DEA's Office of Investigative Technology related an incident during
which
one of the "students" tried to gain entry into her home - no doubt, I
am
told, in order to plant a bugging device - and was shown "the
photographs of
the individuals who have been included in the Security Alert
Bulletin." So
we know that at this point - mid-March, 2001 -- the investigation was
active
and ongoing: an investigation that the US government now denies.

A QUESTION OF DEMEANOR

In Richmond, Virginia, one of the Israeli "students" tried to break
into
DEA District Office, and was apprehended. Tinker Air Force Base, in
Oklahoma
City, was also targeted: after an alert was issued, four spies were
nabbed
in the vicinity, and arrested. Volk Field Air National Guard Base, in
Camp
Douglas, Wisconsin, saw an incursion by two young Israeli nationals,
who
were observed photographing the facilities and subsequently taken into
custody. Both were asked if they had been involved in selling artwork
in
this country, and one, Gal Cantor,

"Became very up over this, and questioned [why] they were being asked
about
that.. Sgt. Kurt Moore of Volk Field stated that when asked about the
art
sales, Kantor's whole demeanor changed, and he became uncooperative."

Yeah, I'll just bet his demeanor changed: perhaps the color ran out
of his
face, as he realized the jig was up. Naturally, both "students" asked
to
telephone the Israeli embassy, no doubt to receive further orders. But
what
were their original orders?

DUAL MISSION

To begin with, the primary mission of any spook is surveillance - and
the
persistent attempts to enter offices and residences of US government
employees clearly point to an effort to plant bugging devices, as well
as
provide photographic and other intelligence on the physical layout of
federal and military facilities. Another purpose, however, was more
specific
and limited to the peculiar circumstances of this particular
operation,
which, you'll remember, took place in the months leading up to 9/11.
As John
Sugg points out in his excellent (and recently updated) article
published in
the Weekly Planet:

"Many of the apparent [Israeli] operatives had set up shop at
addresses
only stones' throws from Arabs in San Diego, Little Rock, Irving,
Texas, and
in South Florida. The Planet also has obtained a watch list of mostly
Arabs
under scrutiny by the U.S. government. The addresses of many
correspond to
the specific areas where the Israelis established bases.

"For example, an address for the Sept. 11 hijacking leader, Mohammad
Atta,
is 3389 Sheridan St. in Hollywood, Fla., only a few blocks and a few
hundred
feet from the address of some of the Israelis, at 4220 Sheridan."

SINCE WE'RE NEIGHBORS.

Let's see: a nest of Israeli "ex"-special forces, electronic
interception
and explosives experts are holed up blocks away from Mohammed Atta and
his
fellow hijackers. Is it even credible that the former didn't know
about the
existence of the latter? Certainly not. And just as certainly the
Israelis -
let's just call them what they are: spies -- had the means at their
disposal
to not only detect the presence of Al Qaeda operatives, but to find
out what
they were up to. And that, my friends, is the very least we can
surmise..

EXPLOSIVE TRUTHS

One striking fact stands out, and that is the large number of "art
students" who were experts in the art of handling explosives. What
were
these guys doing during their stay in this country before it was so
rudely
interrupted by the feds - or, rather, what were they preparing to do?

WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT?

When I first began reporting on this story, in November of last year,
mine
was a lone voice crying out in the wilderness. Now, we have everyone
from
Jane's Intelligence Digest to LeMonde horning in on the action. The
release
of the "'Israeli Art Student' Papers" ensures that this story is not
going
to go away. But, amid all the voluminous details - incident reports
strewn
with names, license plate numbers, telephone numbers, and a
bewildering
array of personal and corporate interconnections -- what is this story
about, anyway?

FACT AND THEORY

It is, in short, about complicity: some degree of Israeli complicity
with
Atta and his fellow monsters. At the very least, the mechanics of what
is
obviously a covert operation directed by Israel imply a certain degree
of
foreknowledge. At worst, the details of this complex and by-no-means
completely uncovered spy ring may wind up pointing to active (albeit
one-sided) collusion with the mass murderers of 9/11. While the first
conclusion is a virtual certainty, the second is, admittedly,
speculation.
What's scary is that such theorizing is not without a certain basis in
fact.

WHODUNIT

Who was responsible for the horror of 9/11? That's what this case is
all
about, and the question it raises is the one that was on everyone's
lips in
the hours and days following the terrorist attacks. How could a small
band
of Arab terrorists have pulled off such a feat of coordination and
organization without state aid: this had to be an act of
state-sponsored
terrorism. Yet none of the alleged links to Iraq, Iran, or the usual
suspects panned out..

A SMOKESCREEN?

Meanwhile, news of the Israeli spy operation had been effectively -
if
temporarily - stifled, and so we were left with the theory that the
hijackers had acted alone, patiently boring into American society and
making
their plans, which they carried out with deadly precision on the
appointed
day. This aura of ruthlessly efficient evil, single-minded and deadly,
covered the hijackers with a kind of malevolent glory, and made them
seem a
formidable enemy against which the whole might of the US had to be
mobilized. This set the stage for a perpetual "war on terrorism." But
what
if this air of mystery and power also covered up the trail of the
other half
of the terrorist conspiracy, coming from a quarter that no one in the
West
would ever suspect? What if..?

A BABE IN THE WOODS

I include myself among the unsuspecting. My first reaction to
statements
coming from the Arab world that "the Zionists" were really behind the
terrorist attacks was to dismiss them as authored by certifiable
nutballs: I
devoutly wished they would shut up. Little did I know, or want to
know, that
our best friend, valiant little Israel, was involved in any way,
shape, or
form. While a frequent critic of Israeli government policies, I am not
hostile to Zionism per se, and my opinion of the current regime was
never
that low. It wasn't until the end of November, when the first reports
of
detained Israelis began to be widely circulated, that I even suspected
there
was an Israeli angle.

TWO EXPLANATIONS (OR THREE?)

As the story developed, however, one thing became all too clear: the
Israelis could well have had foreknowledge of 9/11, and, as Carl
Cameron
averred, failed to inform the US. With the publication of "the
'Israeli Art
Student' Papers," however, we are faced with only two possible
explanations:

1.. The Israelis knew, but didn't tell us, and Cameron's surmise is
confirmed, or:
2.. The Israelis knew and did tell us, but the incompetence of the
US
government got in the way of effective preventative action.
Comment: Not quite so fast! Let's not exclude the third possibility...
that
the Israel's external intelligence agency, the Mossad,
played and active and organic role in the accomplishment of 9-11...
along
with our own CIA.

SHINE THE LIGHT

Given what we now know, either explanation is possible. We won't know
for
sure, of course, until a thorough investigation is undertaken. But
that
won't happen until and unless the media takes up this story, and
starts
reporting it to the American people. Then and only then will Congress
be
moved, perhaps, to awaken from its post-9/11 trance and come to life,
awakened, perhaps, by the prospect of political gain, or the suspicion
that
the wool is being pulled over their eyes - maybe both. Whatever the
motive,
the results of such an investigation can only lead to the shedding of
more
light on a very dark subject.

http://etherzone.com/2002/raim032902.shtml

http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert
http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick
http://www.apfn.org
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk Dave Bosankoe
www.narconews.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 23, 2002, 4:50:32 PM3/23/02

Mr. Y,

I am very very very sorry for this misattribution
mistake at your expense. "Dicky E." did indeed
make a mistake with these quotations. [Discussants
please note that my comments applie to Mr. Carol,
not to Mr. Y whose views are much different.]

[I hate it when people do that to me.]

Thank you for being civil about it.

Now on with the discussion.

Dick

"Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message news:<MhMm8.46914$bj1.15...@news02.optonline.net>...

> Mr. Eastman has made mistake which is noted below:
>
> "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
> news:9ecacd20.02032...@posting.google.com...

> > > "Mr Y" <m...@informed.net> wrote in message
> news:<bXvk8.2145$Wp2.5...@news02.optonline.net>...

> > Among other things Mr. Y says:
<jump>

>
> I, Mr. Y did not make the above statements Andrew Carol did...

> > Mr. Yee asserts that nothing can be uncovered and tied with a nice

> > "fancy bow." In other words he ..........

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 24, 2002, 12:48:33 PM3/24/02

Suddenly the would-be "debunkers" come out of the woodwork. Mike
Schnieder hit the apfn list. Here is the result. Read mine first, as
a guide to Schnieder's disinfo reporting that follows. These were
written this morning.

Subject: Gee, thanks, Mike Schnieder -- Did you read what you sent
us? "It was like cruise missile with wings", "sounded like a missile"
etc. etc.

Gee, look at the unimpeachable witnesses who happened to be at the
Pentagon to see the crash that day: Fed Gaskins, National Editor of
USA Today, Navy Times reporter Christopher Munsey, Peter Kopf,
director of information technology at USA TODAY, Mark Faram, a
reporter from the Navy Times [Two from a paper that has yet to report
the existence of the frame-up theory and the other from a paper and a
reported in the directi military chain of command of Rumsfeld and
Wolfowitz] --- [elsewhere I heard that arch conservative Regnery [not
Henry, rather the less-principled son] the publisher was also on the
road and saw a big huge giant airliner] and all of these guys say BIG
PLANE, but wait .. read Mike Schnieder's post (below) carefully and a
much different picture emerges (both about what people really saw and
about how the spin piece Schnieder offers was constructed for maximum
distortion.)

Yet "I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there
and
slammed into the Pentagon," said eyewitness Mike Walter

And Mr. Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, talks about noise, not
the type of plane.

"Allen Cleveland looked out the window to see A JET heading down
toward the Pentagon"

Omar Campo, the Salvadorean cutting the grass, says "It was a
passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," but that does not
tell us size -- another, from the street in front of the Naval
Operations heliport area (where the attack took place) said it was a
passenger plane that could not have held more than 12 people. And
note that he says "I think" -- and that after all the media telling
him that it was -- I cannot imagine that this was an
on-the-spot-interview, can you?

AP reporter Dave Winslow also saw the crash. He said, "I saw the tail
of a large airliner ... It ploughed right into the Pentagon." Yes, a
tail of an airliner was about the right size. The 757 is not a large
airliner. Why did he see only a tail when everyone else saw a plane"
-- did he catch only the last split second when a tail was still in
tact? Would that be enough time to really estimate the size -- or did
his mind fill in after he had the event interpreted by the news over
the following days -- repeated repeated repeated? He saw the tail
of an airliner plow into the Pentagon???? [Dave, if you read this,
e-mail me.]

General Richard Myers, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
DOES NOT SAY THAT HE SAW ANYTHING -- ONLY THAT HE HAD HEARD ABOUT WTC
AND ABOUT A PLANE WAS HEADED TO WASHINGTON -BUT HIS NAME APPEARS IN
THE ARTICLE AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO REMEMBER A GENERAL SAYING THAT HE
SAW A JET, BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT THE ARTICLE SAYS.

"We heard what sounded like a missile, then we heard a loud boom,"
said Tom
Seibert, 33, a network engineer at the Pentagon.

Christine Peterson, '73 -- says only " I looked idly out my window to
the left --
and saw a plane flying so low I said, 'holy cow, that plane is going
to hit
my car' (not my actual words)."

"Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion
near
the Pentagon. ..."

Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student is quoted as saying
there was a "big boom" but did he use the word "jetliner" when he
told the reported that it "banked slightly" --I can't picture this a
native of Turkey, saying "I saw the jetliner bank slightly " -- and
of course he did not -- the reporter contributed the extra cargo of
"jetliner" to Kizildrgli's semantics, I'll bet the farm on it.

But you notice that the post starts with a Catholic Priest Father
Stephen McGraw -- talk about credibility -- Begorrah! -- giving his
account -- yet I notice that Father McGraw supports only what is
known to be true -- that the plane came in level, at 20 feet, and --
Hail Mary! -- "clipped a light post" (just as the "small jet"
analysis has been maintaining that it would have to go between street
light posts -- here is corroboration direct from heaven.) BUT NOTICE
THAT THE PRIEST DOES NOT ANYWHERE SAY IT WAS A PASSENGER JET , OR A
BIG PLANE -- or, if he did mention the size of the plane he say, the
reporter, for some reason leaves that out of the account!!!!!

The interesting thing is that the guardian has ALL WITNESSES WHO SAY
LARGE PLANE AND NONE OF THE MANY WHO SAW A SMALL PLANE -- could not
have seated more than 12 passengers, one has maintained.

Notice too that the Guardian begins its article with a narrative of
the official version to anchor the readers mind on that
interpretation.

We have to thank good old Mike Schneider for gathering this contrary
research and presenting it here -- as if he never heard of the hard
by-direct-inspection open-and-shut evidence of the Pentagon-released
grounds security video camera shots of a definite small fighter jet,
with a definite fighter jet's vertical stabilizer and the bump of a
cockpit actually fireing the missile that led the plane into the
Pentagon. Schnieder ignores all that -- and sifts for the "witnesses"
-- and only those witnesses -- who say they saw a passenger plane --
witnesses no doubt impressed at the time by what they had heard had
happened at the wtc -- witnesses who work for the Pentagon .

If 911 was not the work of Arab Fundamentalists who hate our freedoms
-- then it was done by professional intelligence services
(Mossad/CIA/MI6) as a meticulous false-flag frame-up operation -- and
if that is the case every contingency of deception was meticuluously
planned -- even down to the planted witnesses, the psy op spin
"reporting", the "witnesses" and guys who post it to the strategic
e-mail lists.

Now, if you have not done so already, see the actual video footage of
what really happened -- small jet firing missile just before hitting
the Pentagon near all that helicopter fuel.
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Schneider" <mi...@usfamily.net>
To: <ap...@smartgroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:04 AM
Subject: [apfn] Re: here's why the wingspan against the building was
smaller

This is from IP - Initially posted by R. A. Hettinga
<mailto:r...@ibuc.com>
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=19882

WITNESS REPORTS
Thu Mar 7 11:47:04 2002
62.30.112.3
---------
[<http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/170005.html]>http://www.newsbytes.c
om/news/01/170005.html]
On a Metro train to National Airport, Allen Cleveland looked out the
window
to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. "I thought, 'There's no
landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,' " he said. Before he
could
process that thought, he saw "a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to
me was
in absolute hysterics."
---------
[<http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,550486,00.html]>http
://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,550486,00.html]
There was worse to come. A little before 9.30am, reports emerged that
another plane had been hijacked. Within 10 minutes, a medium-sized
passenger
plane flew in low over Arlington and the Navy Annexe in Washington DC
and
plunged into the Pentagon's south-west face, throwing up a huge
fireball.
Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of
the
road when the plane flew over his head.
"It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," Mr
Campo
said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head.
I felt
the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of
fire. I
could never imagine I would see anything like that here."
Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck
in a
traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a
huge
screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over.
Everybody
was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up
and
down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way
in."
A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an
American
Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit,
and the
wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."
Smoke and flames poured out of a large hole punched into the side of
the
Pentagon. Emergency crews rushed fire engines to the scene and
ambulancemen
ran towards the flames holding wooden pallets to carry bodies out. A
few of
the lightly injured, bleeding and covered in dust, were recovering on
the
lawn outside, some in civilian clothes, some in uniform. A piece of
twisted
aircraft fuselage lay nearby. No one knew how many people had been
killed,
but rescue workers were finding it nearly impossible to get to people
trapped inside, beaten back by the flames and falling debris.
...
Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion
near
the Pentagon. "It was a huge fireball, a huge, orange fireball," he
said in
an interview on his mobile phone.
He said another witness told him a helicopter exploded. AP reporter
Dave
Winslow also saw the crash. He said, "I saw the tail of a large
airliner ...
It ploughed right into the Pentagon."
General Richard Myers, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
said that
before the crash into the Pentagon, military officials had been
notified
that another hijacked plane had been heading from the New York area to
Washington.
"We heard what sounded like a missile, then we heard a loud boom,"
said Tom
Seibert, 33, a network engineer at the Pentagon. "We were sitting
there and
watching this thing from New York, and I said, you know, the next best
target would be us. And five minutes later, boom."
--------
[<http://www.humanevents.org/articles/09-17-01/regnery.html]>http://ww
w.humanevents.org/articles/09-17-01/regnery.html]
Eyewitness at the Pentagon
Alfred S. Regnery
The Week of September 17, 2001
When I first moved to Washington from the Midwest, I used to joke that
the
commute into town from the Virginia suburbs got my blood circulating
for the
day.
...
But no trip along that highway, over more than 20 years, prepared me
for
what I saw on September 11.
As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view,
listening
on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center
disaster in
New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a
couple
of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead.
Although airplanes regularly fly over the Pentagon on their way to
Reagan
National Airport, just a mile or two south, this plane was too low and
going
too fast. As I watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete
barriers I
knew it was about to crash.
...
Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke
rose
above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the
Pentagon
billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a
gaping
hole where the airplane had hit it.
...
Mr. Regnery is president and publisher of Regnery Publishing, Inc., a
sister
company of Human Events.
-------
[<http://www.naualumni.com/News/News.cfm?ID=613&c=4]>http://www.naualu
mni.com/News/News.cfm?ID=613&c=4]
Tragedy at the Pentagon - An Eyewitness Report
October 18, 2001
Christine Peterson, '73 found herself in the thick of last month's
terrorist
tragedy, and submitted this report. It offers a personal perspective
on the
events in Washington, D.C., which have perhaps been overshadowed in
the
media by the scope of the horrors in New York.
It was 9:30 a.m. on Tuesday, September 11th, and traffic was terrible.
For
all of my twenty-eight years living in the Washington, D.C. area,
terrible
traffic was a constant.
...
I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the
Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the
other
routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the
left --
and saw a plane flying so low I said, "holy cow, that plane is going
to hit
my car" (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over.
It
was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.
And then the plane crashed. My mind could not comprehend what had
happened.
Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off
the
Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge
billows
of smoke and torrents of fire. Now I wanted to get as far away as I
could,
but that was impossible. The people around me had gotten out of their
cars.
At least half had cameras and the others were on their cell phones. I
experienced a moment of irrelevant amazement that so many people had
cameras
in their cars.
A few minutes later a second, much smaller explosion got the attention
of
the police arriving on the scene. They began ordering people back into
their cars and away. I drove to work knowing that I would not be
flying
anywhere for a while. In the office I handled all the details that an
emergency of this magnitude creates.
-------
[<http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/attack.in.their.words/]>http://www.
cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/attack.in.their.words/]
Pentagon attack
"I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there and
slammed into the Pentagon," eyewitness Mike Walter said of the plane
that
hit the military complex.
"Huge explosion, great ball of fire, smoke started billowing out, and
then
it was just chaos on the highway as people either tried to move around
the
traffic and go down either forward or backwards," he said.
---------
[<http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Pentagon_crash_eyewitness_comforted_vic
tims.html>http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Pentagon_crash_eyewitness_comfo
rted_victims.html
]
Pentagon crash eyewitness comforted victims, by Paul Haring
MDW News Service
Washington, D.C., Sept. 28, 2001- Father Stephen McGraw was driving to
a
graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept.
11,
when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard,
putting
him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into
the
Pentagon.
"The traffic was very slow moving, and at one point just about at a
standstill," said McGraw, a Catholic priest at St. Anthony Parish in
Falls
Church.
"I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear
anything
at all until the plane was just right above our cars." McGraw
estimates that
the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left
hand
lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon.
"The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us,
injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my
car.
"I saw it crash into the building," he said. "My only memories really
were
that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the
sense
that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,"
he
said.
"I hadn't heard about the World Trade Center at that point, and so I
was
thinking this was an accident. I figured it was just an accident.
"There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I
remember
seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an
explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.
"I remember hearing a gasp or scream from one of the other cars near
me.
Almost a collective gasp it seemed. I just knew right away what I
needed to
do."
"He literally had the stole in one hand and a prayer book in the other
and
in one fluid motion crossed the guardrail," said Mark Faram, a
reporter from
the Navy Times who witnessed McGraw in the first moments after the
crash.
Within 45 seconds, McGraw was on the lawn of the Pentagon to provide
spiritual comfort to the injured.
--------
[<http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/attack-usat.htm]>http
://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/attack-usat.htm]
"(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious
target," said Fred Gaskins, who was driving to his job as a national
editor
at USA TODAY near the Pentagon when the plane passed about 150 feet
overhead. "It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint
that
anything was wrong."
Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of
Turkey, saw
the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge
five-sided
building that is the headquarters of the nation's military.
'Nobody could believe it'
"There was a big boom," he said. "Everybody was in shock. I turned
around to
the car behind me and yelled 'Did you see that?' Nobody could believe
it."
Kizildrgli was found wandering in an Arlington neighborhood about five
miles
from the Pentagon an hour after the crash.
Peter Kopf, director of information technology at USA TODAY, was
stalled in
traffic about 9:30 a.m. when the jet hit the Pentagon, creating a
"huge
fireball."
"People (on the highway) were freaking out," he said. "People were
turning
around and driving the opposite way getting out of their cars, talking
on
cell phones, crying."
When the Pentagon was struck, Kopf was listening on his car radio to
reports
that a second hijacked jet had been crashed into the World Trade
Center in
New York City.
"We wanted to get the hell out of (the vicinity of the Pentagon)," he
said.
" We felt a second one was imminent (at the Pentagon)."
---------
[<http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-467181.php]>http://www
.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-467181.php]
"The plane S exploded in a ground-shaking whoomp"
Navy Times reporter Christopher Munsey was en route to work when he
saw this
morning's attack on the Pentagon. This is his eyewitness account.
ARLINGTON, Va. - Traffic headed south on Interstate 395 just across
the
Potomac River and Washington, D.C. was light, but I was late for work
and it
was after the thick of the rush hour, about 9:30 a.m.
...
Already dumbfounded by the first, sketchy radio reports of the
catastrophic
attack on the World Trade Center towers in New York, I couldn't
believe what
I was now seeing to my right: A silver, twin-engine American Airlines
jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and
straight toward the Pentagon, just hundreds of yards away.
It was a nightmare coming to life.
The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by and within moments
exploded in a ground-shaking "whoomp," as it appeared to hit the side
of the
Pentagon.
A huge flash of orange flame and black smoke poured into the sky.
Smoke
seemed to change from black to white, forming a billowing column in
the sky.
It all seemed so surreal. Sadly, it's all too real.
- Christopher Munsey

[End of Schneider's post]

Here are the best non-CFR sources on the 911 crashjacking frame-up:

http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine

HACKED http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert
use mirror: www.bighula.com/copvcia/

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick
http://www.apfn.org
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk Dave Bosankoe
www.narconews.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com

Haiba King

unread,

Mar 24, 2002, 1:23:51 PM3/24/02

Say, Dick? I know you're lying. You know you're lying. The widow and
daughter of the guy who USED to live next door to me but who is NOW DEAD
after being on the airplane he boarded which slammed into the Pentagon,
know you're lying.
So here we go....
You obviously have an agenda. Wy don't you just tell us what you want
(money, attention, the chance to promote your views, etc.) so we can
get to the bottom of this a lot faster. It's so much easier to tell
the truth.
I'm sick of seeing your posts in this newsgroup as they are irrelevant
to the topic here. Please just tell us why you're lying so we can end
this thread.
Thank you.

P.S. Go fuck yourself.

> "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message

> news:9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com...

>> Writing to newsgroups is like writing in sand on the ocean beach. It
>> is all soon lost in the ebb and flow. We don't stay with what we
>> know long enough to act on what we know, to push what we know in front
>> of those who don't want to hear it but need to anyway.
>>

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 24, 2002, 10:15:26 PM3/24/02

Haiba (Habib) King is upset that he doesn't posses the skills Dicky E. has
when pointing out the anomalies.

You will get there Habib, it just take more than sitting in front of your
TV.

Mr. Y

The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its’
determination to continue to be a world power."

- Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post,
April 1975

"Haiba King" <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message
news:a7l5jn$aci$1...@news3.bu.edu...

Haiba King

unread,

Mar 25, 2002, 9:30:34 PM3/25/02

My name was clearly stated as "Haiba". So do you think it's funny that you
refer to me as the stereotypical name of "Habib" - Mr. Reason and
Enlgihtenment himself?
I believe this shows you to be an ignorant, racist fuck. Also, you
shit-faced cockmaster, Haiba is a female male - not a male name. And
yes, I use my real name and don't hide behind some mask like "Mr KY"
or whatever the fuck you call yourself, needs to. Why don't you grow
a sack and use your real name?
Do you use a phony name because your parents' asked you not to use
their last name because you're such an embarrassment?
Also, if you really do believe what you say then please write to
the following address "torrey...@hotmail.com" and tell Mr. Deluca
that his daughter did not really die on September 11th in flight 11
at the Pentagon.
Will you do this? Of course not; because you're a fraud.
now if you'll excuse me - you donkeyfucking shitking - I'm due back
on the planet earth. You should come here, because you're way gone.

HAIBA King

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 25, 2002, 10:40:35 PM3/25/02

The foul-mouthed cunt ranted without ever adding anything relative to the
thread ... and yes a cockmaster I am... you would scream my name as I
ravaged your butt without KY.

Read on bitch.

"Haiba King" <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message

news:a7omga$6h7$1...@news3.bu.edu...

> My name was clearly stated as "Haiba". So do you think it's funny that you
> refer to me as the stereotypical name of "Habib" - Mr. Reason and
> Enlgihtenment himself?
> I believe this shows you to be an ignorant, racist fuck. Also, you
> shit-faced cockmaster, Haiba is a female male - not a male name. And
> yes, I use my real name and don't hide behind some mask like "Mr KY"
> or whatever the fuck you call yourself, needs to. Why don't you grow
> a sack and use your real name?

Only worthy people get to know my identity ;-)

> Do you use a phony name because your parents' asked you not to use
> their last name because you're such an embarrassment?

LMFAO

A foul-mouth cunt talks about embarrassment?

Listen cunt! Go see a man named Brzenzski. He can help you out? He can be
found down the D.C. way and explain exactly why he feels your neighbors
needed to die for their country.

> Also, if you really do believe what you say then please write to
> the following address "torrey...@hotmail.com" and tell Mr. Deluca
> that his daughter did not really die on September 11th in flight 11
> at the Pentagon.

No! I cannot get emotionally involved in the horrors of 9/11. It will make
me like the many sheeples bred by the media on this days events.

> Will you do this?

No!

Of course not; because you're a fraud.

Afraid of Mr. Deluca? Hardly... the government is the real threat to me. Now
leave Dicky E. alone or post something to disprove his claims. By the way,
If Mr. Deluca needs someone to talk with about the deaths you should educate
yourself on the geopolitical atmosphere and then inform him of the senseless
attrocities of 9/11. What has taken you so long to become educated? This
book was released in 1997.

> now if you'll excuse me - you donkeyfucking shitking - I'm due back
> on the planet earth. You should come here, because you're way gone.

Foul-mouthed cunt claims she is going back to Earth. For such a intelligent
person why did you enter into the twighlight zone. Maybe your subconcious is
starting to get to you. Wake up loud-mouthed cunt, the Matrix has you.

>
> HAIBA King
>
>
> In alt.fan.howard-stern Mr Y <m...@informed.net> wrote:
> > Haiba (Habib) King is upset that he doesn't posses the skills Dicky E.
has
> > when pointing out the anomalies.
>
> > You will get there Habib, it just take more than sitting in front of
your
> > TV.
>
> > Mr. Y
>
> > --

> > The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its?

Haiba King

unread,

Mar 25, 2002, 10:51:56 PM3/25/02

Okay, Mr. Relevancy.
Your post makes about as much sense as your conspiracy theories. At least
you admit to being a cockmaster. There's no denying that, you sexist pig.
By the way, I'm reporting you to your ISP server for sexual harrassment
for that last line of yours'. Good job you racist prick!
And I notice you won't say whether or not you're going to write
"torrey...@hotmail.com" to tell him his daughter didn't really die
on flight 77 on September 11th. Surprise, surprise.....
I hope you get cancer.

Andy Carol

unread,

Mar 25, 2002, 11:04:12 PM3/25/02

In article <T4Sn8.8283$u77.3...@news02.optonline.net>, Mr Y
<m...@informed.net> wrote:

> The foul-mouthed cunt ranted without ever adding anything relative to the
> thread ... and yes a cockmaster I am... you would scream my name as I
> ravaged your butt without KY.

Let me guess. You got an "A" in debate class?

--- Andy

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 25, 2002, 11:37:52 PM3/25/02

"Haiba King" <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message

news:a7or8s$o9r$3...@news3.bu.edu...

> Okay, Mr. Relevancy.
> Your post makes about as much sense as your conspiracy theories. At
least
> you admit to being a cockmaster. There's no denying that, you sexist pig.
> By the way, I'm reporting you to your ISP server for sexual harrassment
> for that last line of yours'. Good job you racist prick!

Good for you you foul-mouth cunt, it is a two-way street. You mean the Henry
Kissenger quote? That's strange?

LOL

> And I notice you won't say whether or not you're going to write
> "torrey...@hotmail.com" to tell him his daughter didn't really die
> on flight 77 on September 11th. Surprise, surprise.....
> I hope you get cancer.

You illiterate bitch, read it again, maybe it all will sink in this time.
Cancer of the brain like yourself?

Mr Y

unread,

Mar 25, 2002, 11:42:49 PM3/25/02

"Andy Carol" <aaca...@apple.com> wrote in message
news:250320022004128671%aaca...@apple.com...

Wrong again Andy! I received a B-, but hell that was plenty going up against
you. By the way, are you sticking up for the foul-mouthed cunt? Shocking!!

LOL

Mr. Y

That bitch gonna report me about sexual harassment with her comments?

LMFAO

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 26, 2002, 2:29:08 AM3/26/02

You know a thread contains important information when hecklers are
sent to it to fill it with profanity and digressions and other stink
intended to drive away others. (And don't mind references to the
feelings of the grieving. If investigations into murders had to stop
because of the feelings of the relatives then no frame-up would ever
be discovered. The families of the victims want the truth -- and if
they don't , they know better than to look into a thread like this.
No family member of a victim has requested that I stop yet -- and I
post to many NY lists and newsgroups.

Now to the matter at hand.
----------------------------

This post ties together motive and means in the 911 frame-up.

The expanded American Patriot Friends Network apfn site
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm joins Michael C. Ruppert's (now
HACKED) http://www.copvcia.com (use mirror:
www.bighula.com/copvcia/ ), and Carol Valentine's
http://www.public-action.com as 911 leading 911 investigation sites.

I was asked to look at apfn's 9-11 site and see if any important
issue had been overlooked. While attempting fulfill this assignment
I saw at once how sidetracked from the important questions and clues
we got when United States invaded Afganistan and anthrax was
discovered in media and government offices. We let these
(intentional?) distractions get us off the scent we had been
followingly hotly.

Here are the most importaant questions, motives, aspects etc. we need
to return to:

1. Nothing is more important to breaking the 911-frame-up than the
Bosankoe enlargment and animation-sequencing of the Pentagon attack.
This evidence establishes the fact of the small jet (or cruise
missile) attack on the Pentagon on September 11, using the raw data
of the D. of D.'s own security video footage. This is the
unanswerable "smoking gun." It is sound replicable data actually
provided by the organization that it proves is lying.

2. The fact of remote-control hijackings in each of the 911
crashbombing planes is further supported by these other
well-documented cases of crashjacking murders (and one test run of the
remote crashjacking equipment): [We talk about the remote-control
hijackings, but we neglect to tell newcomers to the investigation that
there have been other incontrovertable cases of remote-control
crashjackings that were discovered, but then forgotten in distraction
by the U.S. -Northern-Alliance-Druglord invasion and conquest of
Taliban Afganistan and by the small anthrax attacks on the media and
government and daily predicted but never materializing large-scale
anthrax attack. Here are the tree other cases:

a. American Airlines Airbus A300 in 1999: As it prepared to land
in Miami the rudder moved back and forth several times
on its own causing the jet to move violently from side to
side.
Then it just stopped on its own. "Rudder movements extreme"
reported the NTSB. Never explained.

b. Crashed Egypt Air 990 Boeing 767 10/31/99 JFK to Cairo,
Egypt.
Top Egyptian military aboard. A half hour out of New York
the pilot left the cockpit to go to the toilet. A voice, in
English,
(not the pilot or co-pilot) is heard on the voice recorder
saying
"Control it." --then the plane begins flying countrary to the
auto-pilot
where it had been set to fly the appropriate course.. The
co-pilot
uttering prays to Allah in disbelief, turns off the auto-pilot
in an
attempt to restore proper control of the plane. But instead,
the
plane then goes into a dive. The co-pilot is again heard
calling
on Allah for help. The pilot returns to the cockpit 16
seconds into
the dive, asking, "What's happening?" Both work to pull
up the nose.
The engine goes full throttle while still in a dive. The
co-pilot cuts the fuel lines, to stop the engines. Then the
right and left elevators move in opposite directions.
The ailerons on both wings move full up. The pilot
orders "Shut engines."
The co-pilot replies: "They're shut." The last words from
the cockpit are of
those of the pilot exhorting the co-pilot in Arabic: "Pull!
Pull! Pull!" Suddenly
the voice recorder is simply shut off, just like in Flight
587. (Presumably
the remote-controlling crash-jacker has heard enough to know
that his mission
crashjacking mission has succeeded.

c. Flight 587 on 11/12/01, an Airbus A 300 after taking off in
New York
suddenly has its vertical stabilizers begin to sway back and
forth on their
won, beyond the normal range that even the cockpit controls
permit.
Flight data record "unuslual sideways movments, [called
yawing], that
violently slammed passengers back and forth" -- working the
rudder in the
stabilizer as if someone were trying to wear down the material
as one breaks
wire throughmetal fatigue by working it back and forth. When
the stabilizer
finally broke off under this pounding rudder was gone the
plane might still
have been able to land with a skilled pilot under otherwise
normal condiotions,
except that now the remote crashjacker began playing with the
flaps,
the ailerons and the elevators all at the same time. The
strain on the plane was
terrific. As the recorder indicates, the plane turned a full
ten degrees in one
second. (A feat well beyond the normal range of operation.)
The plane banked left, even though the blackbox recorder
indicates that at the
same time pilot and co-pilot were working controls to move the
plane in the
opposite direction.in the opposite direction. Then the remote
crashjacker goes
for the kill as the recorder indicates that the nose drops
and the cockpit voice
record is cut off (and that means both the plane's normal
power source and the
emergeny battery source on a different circuit.). The
stresses caused by these
crashjacking maneuvers -- the full throttle dive followed by
the suden dropping
of the flaps -- caused the in-high-momentum engines to break
off as the braces
fail to hold them back with the slowing flap-down wings.

Note: The cockpit conversations of these crashes have not
been released,
merely portions of cockpit conversation being paraphrased.
Note also that
the NTSB (Director Marion Blakey a recently appointed D.C.
lobbyist with no
experience in the field) -- blames both the Flight AA-587
crash and the
EgyptAi r990 crashes on the pilots (pilot error in the AA
case and a suicide
in the EgyptAir case -- both totally inconsistent with any
and all available
evidence -- both determinations together in the face of all
contrary blackbox
flight data being entirely to improbable to leave room for
any other conclusion
than that the National Transportation Safety Board is involved
in the 911 frame-up
cover-up.

3. The destruciton of the North Tower and WTC Building #7 meant the
destruction of all the evidence and files in two of the biggest and
far-reaching suits ever brought against the very top financial
leaders of the U.S.

a) The grand jury information about the illegal oil swaps between
Kazakhstan
and then-sanctioned Iran, in a suit brought by businessman Farhat
Tabbah
under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, that involved James H.
Giffen and
Mobil Oil -- evidence and files destroyed in the bomb explosion
on the 23rd
floor of the North Tower and the later collapse of the building
and the deaths
of investigators effectively ended the chances of those cases
succeeding.
(See #5, below, about the bomb on the 23rd floor; See Seymor M.
Hersh's
article in the July 9, New Yorker for details in the action
brought against
Giffen and Giffen's close criminal ties with Kazakhstan strongman
Nazarbayev.

b). The destruction of Securities and Exchange Commission evidence
and
files and investigators murdered in the largest
gold-price-fixing case in
history, the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee's (GATA's) lawsuit,
brought
by Reginal Howe, involving some of the most powerful figures in
American
finance-- charges against Greenspan, Morgan, and other big banking
houses,
plus Lawrence Sommers (now President of Harvard) -- the entire
case
destroyed in the wtc attack. (Many government agencies had been
relocated
in the wtc buildings. Building number seven, by the way, was the
New York
CIA headquaters -- just as the Pentagon target was Naval
intelligence.)

4. The bomb that went off on the 23rd floor of the North Tower near
the moment of the first plane hitting the building was revealed
indirectly on the 60 Minutes program a week or so later-- John Tebeak
(Sp.?) the new wtc security chief being interviewed tells of his
rescue of Port Authority workers on the 22nd floor totally buried in
debris when the bomb-demolished 23rd-floor roof collapsed on them --
30 stories below the airliner crash! (I have this on tape, and have
made the transcript, and can put you in touch with Steve in Maine who
has the actual video. ) [Is there a connection between the 23rd-floor
destruction and a phantom missile that people are claiming to see
hitting the building along with the first plane that crashed. People
were dead, rescuers had to dig through rubble to rescue the Port
Authority personel on the floor below those 23rd-floor government
offices (disguised as health insurance offices) where information in
the above two cases were being stored.

5. The important role of Northern Alliance grown opium in the
production of Chinese heroin, and the revenues those crops generate
that are laundered into American and British investment banks to be
reinvested in the new (slave) facorties of Triad-dominated China and
that -- with near subsistence wages drain middle classes jobs from the
the working people of the west. (The opium-derived heroin grosses $2
trillion a year in subsequently-laundered revenues -- a flow of funds
that comprises a large portion of the "hot money" that has caused
economic havoc throught the national economies of the world.

6. And finally we have the $6 trillion in Central Asian oil and
mineral wealth -- and the possibility of oil pipelines through
Afganistan to carry that oil to India, Vietnam and other southeast
Asian nations whose economic development finance globalism means to
control.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington

Andy Carol

unread,

Mar 26, 2002, 8:39:46 AM3/26/02

In article <d%Sn8.8467$u77.3...@news02.optonline.net>, Mr Y
<m...@informed.net> wrote:

> "Andy Carol" <aaca...@apple.com> wrote in message
> news:250320022004128671%aaca...@apple.com...
> > In article <T4Sn8.8283$u77.3...@news02.optonline.net>, Mr Y
> > <m...@informed.net> wrote:
> >
> > > The foul-mouthed cunt ranted without ever adding anything relative to
> the
> > > thread ... and yes a cockmaster I am... you would scream my name as I
> > > ravaged your butt without KY.
> >
> > Let me guess. You got an "A" in debate class?
> >
> > --- Andy
>
> Wrong again Andy! I received a B-, but hell that was plenty going up against
> you. By the way, are you sticking up for the foul-mouthed cunt? Shocking!!

I'm not sticking up for anybody, I just thought the comment ironic.

--- Andy

chudh

unread,

Mar 27, 2002, 9:54:01 AM3/27/02

Glad you got this back on track!

> pilotleft the cockpit to go to the toilet. A voice in English,

> (not the pilot or co-pilot) is heard on the voice recorder
> saying "Control it." --then the plane begins flying countrary
> to the auto-pilot where it had been set to fly the appropriate

> course. The co-pilot uttering prayers to Allah in disbelief,

> turns off the auto-pilot in an attempt to restore proper control
> of the plane. But instead, the plane then goes into a dive.
> The co-pilot is again heard calling on Allah for help. The pilot
> returns to the cockpit 16 seconds into the dive, asking, "What's
> happening?" Both work to pull up the nose.
> The engine goes full throttle while still in a dive. The co-pilot
> cuts the fuel lines, to stop the engines. Then the
> right and left elevators move in opposite directions.
> The ailerons on both wings move full up. The pilot orders
> "Shut engines." The co-pilot replies: "They're shut."
> The last words from the cockpit are of those of the pilot
> exhorting the co-pilot in Arabic: "Pull! Pull! Pull!"
> Suddenly the voice recorder is simply shut off, just like in
> Flight 587. (Presumably the remote-controlling crash-jacker

> has heard enough to know that his crashjacking mission

> has succeeded.
>
> c. Flight 587 on 11/12/01, an Airbus A 300 after taking off in

> New York.............................

>
>
> 3. The destruciton of the North Tower and WTC Building #7 meant the
> destruction of all the evidence and files in two of the biggest and
> far-reaching suits ever brought against the very top financial
> leaders of the U.S.
>
> a) The grand jury information about the illegal oil swaps between
> Kazakhstan and then-sanctioned Iran, in a suit brought by businessman
> Farhat Tabbah under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, that involved
> James H. Giffen and Mobil Oil -- evidence and files destroyed in the
> bomb explosion on the 23rd floor of the North Tower and the later
> collapse of the building and the deaths of investigators effectively
> ended the chances of those cases succeeding.
>

> b). The destruction of Securities and Exchange Commission evidence

> and files,investigators murdered in the largest gold-price-fixing

> case in history, the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee's (GATA's)
> lawsuit, brought by Reginal Howe, involving some of the most powerful
> figures in American finance-- charges against Greenspan, Morgan,

> and other big banking houses........

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 27, 2002, 5:47:10 PM3/27/02

chudh <chud...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3CA1DE...@worldnet.att.net>...

> Glad you got this back on track!

This one is for you, Chud:

Contents:
I. Julio Godoy, U.S. Policy on Taliban Influenced by Oil
II. Henry Makow, Ph.D., Elite Endgame: Oil = Extortion = New World Order
III. Lara Marlowe, U.S. Efforts to Make Peace Summed up by 'OIL'
IV. "Top View," New Book Details Bush/Big Oil Negotiations With Taliban
V. "JJ." (on the agitprop disinfo strategy to divide U.S. Jews and
gentiles on 911 frame-up crime)
=================================

I. U.S. Policy on Taliban Influenced by Oil
by Julio Godoy

Under the influence of United States oil companies, the
government of President George W. Bush initially blocked
intelligence agencies' investigations on terrorism while it
bargained with the Taliban on the delivery of Osama bin Laden
in exchange for political recognition and economic aid, two
French intelligence analysts claim.

In the book, "Bin Laden, La Verite Interdite" (Bin Laden, the
Forbidden Truth), that was released recently, the authors,
Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, reveal that the
Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) Deputy Director John
O'Neill resigned in July in protest over the obstruction.

The authors claim that O'Neill told them that "the main
obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were U.S. oil
corporate interests and the role played by Saudi Arabia in
it." The two claim that the U.S. government's main objective
in Afghanistan was to consolidate the position of the Taliban
regime to obtain access to the oil and gas reserves in Central
Asia.

They affirm that until August, the U.S. government saw the
Taliban regime "as a source of stability in Central Asia that
would enable the construction of an oil pipeline across
Central Asia" from the rich oilfields in Turkmenistan,
Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan,
to the Indian Ocean. Until now, says the book, "the oil and
gas reserves of Central Asia have been controlled by Russia.
The Bush government wanted to change all that."

But, confronted with Taliban's refusal to accept U.S.
conditions, "this rationale of energy security changed into a
military one", the authors claim.

"At one moment during the negotiations, the U.S.
representatives told the Taliban, 'either you accept our offer
of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of
bombs,'" Brisard said in an interview in Paris. [This threat
was made before September 11th.]

According to the book, the Bush Administration began to
negotiate with the Taliban immediately after coming into power
in February. U.S. and Taliban diplomatic representatives met
several times in Washington, Berlin and Islamabad.

To polish their image in the United States, the Taliban even
employed a U.S. expert on public relations, Laila Helms. The
authors claim that Helms is also an expert in the works of
U.S. intelligence organizations, for her uncle, Richard Helms,
is a former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

The last meeting between U.S. and Taliban representatives took
place in August, five weeks before the attacks on New York and
Washington, the analysts maintain. On that occasion, Christina
Rocca, in charge of Central Asian affairs for the U.S.
government, met the Taliban Ambassador to Pakistan [Abdul
Salam Zaeef] in Islamabad.

Brisard and Dasquie have long experience in intelligence
analysis. Brisard was until the late 1990s Director of
economic analysis and strategy for Vivendi, a French company.
He also worked for French secret services, and wrote for them
in 1997 a report on the now famous Al-Qaeda network, headed by
bin Laden.

Dasquie is an investigative journalist and publisher of
Intelligence Online, a respected newsletter on diplomacy,
economic analysis and strategy, available through the
Internet.

Brisard and Dasquie draw a portrait of the closest aides to
Bush, linking them to the oil business. Bush's family has a
strong oil background, as do some of his top aides. From Vice
President Dick Cheney, through the Director of the National
Security Council Condoleezza Rice, to the secretaries of
commerce and energy, Donald Evans and Stanley Abraham, all
have for long worked for U.S. oil companies.

Cheney was until the end of last year President of
Halliburton, a company that provides services for oil
industry; Rice was between 1991 and 2000 manager for Chevron;
Evans and Abraham worked for Tom Brown, another oil giant.

Besides the secret negotiations held between Washington and
Kabul and the importance of the oil industry, the book takes
issue with the role played by Saudi Arabia in fostering
Islamic fundamentalism, in the personality of bin Laden, and
with the networks that the Saudi dissident built to finance
his activities.

Brisard and Dasquie contend that the U.S. government's claim
that it had been prosecuting bin Laden since 1998 [is a big
fraud]. "Actually," Dasquie says, "the first state to
officially prosecute bin Laden was Libya, on charges of
terrorism."

"Bin Laden wanted to settle in Libya in the early 1990s, but
was hindered by the government of Muammar Gaddafi," Dasquie
claims. "Enraged by Libya's refusal, bin Laden organized
attacks inside Libya, including assassination attempts
against Gaddafi."

Dasquie singles out one group, the Islamic Fighting Group
(IFG), reputedly the most powerful Libyan dissident
organization, based in London, and directly linked with bin
Laden. "Gaddafi even demanded Western police institutions,
such as Interpol, to pursue the IFG and bin Laden, but never
obtained cooperation," Dasquie says. "Until today, members of
IFG openly live in London."

The book confirms earlier reports that the U.S. government
worked closely with the United Nations during the negotiations
with the Taliban. "Several meetings took place this year,
under the arbitration of Francesc Vendrell, personal
representative of UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, to discuss
the situation in Afghanistan," says the book.
"Representatives of the U.S. government and Russia, and the
six countries that border with Afghanistan were present at
these meetings," it says. "Sometimes, representatives of the
Taliban also sat around the table."

These meetings, also called Six plus Two, because of the
number of states (six neighbors plus the U.S. and Russia)
involved, have been confirmed by Niaz A. Naik, former
Pakistani Secretary for foreign affairs.

In a French television news program two weeks ago, Naik said
that during a Six plus Two meeting in Berlin in July, the
discussions turned around "the formation of a government of
national unity. If the Taliban had accepted this coalition,
they would have immediately received international economic
aid. And the pipelines from Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan would
have come," he added.

Naik also claimed that Tom Simons, the U.S. representative at
these meetings, openly threatened the Taliban and Pakistan.
"Simons said: 'either the Taliban behave as they ought to, or
Pakistan convinces them to do so, or we will use another
option'. The words Simons used were 'a military operation',"
Naik claimed.

===^==========================

II. The Elite Endgame: Oil = Extortion = New World Order
Henry Makow, Ph.D.
March 27, 2002

I spent 33 years in . the Marine Corps [rising to] Major General. And during
that period, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big
Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer,
a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe
for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent
place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in.. I helped
purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in
1909-1912 . In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way
unmolested. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a
few hints.
- Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, 1933

Gen. Butler should not judge capitalism by its malignant form, monopoly and
imperialism. Otherwise, he was right. For 100 years, the United States has
been the "enforcer" for big private oil and banking interests known as the
"Anglo American elite" (Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan) based in London and
New York. The human race has been stalled for 150 years due to the baneful
dominion of this clique.

This is the real "shadow government." People who say this are ridiculed as
"conspiracy theorists." What do you expect to hear from a cabal that
conducts its business in secret, protected by club wielding police? The
elite is not an urban legend. It represents a group of very rich people who
have the fascist instincts of British feudal lords combined with American
robber barons and express them in New Age liberal, socialist and feminist
rhetoric.

Its coordinating body is the Royal Institute of International Affairs in
London. The New York branch office is the Council on Foreign Relations,
founded by J.P Morgan in 1922. This "think tank" is more like a studio. It
hires the scriptwriters and casts the actors to fill the main roles. For
example, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were nobodies until they were
discovered and elevated to national prominence as "outsiders."

Oligarchic control is an unspoken fact of life in America. It is executed by
the CIA and by the mass media. For the past 85 years, almost every
President, CIA Director, and leading cabinet secretary have come from the
CFR casting couch. Tenet, Rumsfeld, Powell, Cheney and Condoleezza Rice are
all CFR members.

As far as I can see, since 1950, the only politicians that represented the
American people were the Taft-McCarthy-Goldwater-Buchanan school of
Republicans. Kennedy and Nixon may also have tried but the CIA took care of
that.

If you accept the mass media, you believe that on Sept. 11 Islamic
terrorists wantonly attacked the WTC. On the other hand, if you prefer to
look behind the curtain, you will suspect 9/11 was a bold gambit by the
Anglo-American elite to camouflage a grab for complete control of the
world´s oil reserves. The Afghan war gave it the vast resources of the
Caspian Sea and Central Asia. The Iraqi war will bring it the world´s second
largest reserves, forecast to become the largest (300 billion barrels).

Geopolitics is a chess game. Rockefeller´s protégé Zbigniew Brzezinski, has
a book entitled The Grand Chessboard. As in chess, a drastic "sacrifice"
(such as Sept. 11) always has a more far-reaching purpose. The Anglo
American elite´s game-plan is to use control of oil to blackmail Europe,
Russia and China to accept its hegemony in the upcoming New World Order. No
wonder the rest of the world is not crazy about attacking Iraq.

Iraq´s Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz recently expressed a similar view in
an interview with a German newspaper ( Weltam Sonntag 10.03.02). He said he
thought the war is inevitable because "Bush wants control over Iraq´s oil
resources as a lever to pressure Europe, Russia and China."

The New World Order will consolidate Anglo American elite control of the
world. Its social and economic agenda includes the promotion of
homosexuality and feminism, the continued destruction of the nuclear family,
abortion and depopulation, deindustrialization, elite monopoly of resources,
middle class decline, and ever-greater disparities between rich and poor.

The nation state will gradually disappear and with it individual freedom,
democracy, free speech and religion. The ultimate aim is the gradual
dissolution of western civilization and the imposition of a new Dark Age.
Like the recipe for boiling frogs, the elite has been slowly increasing the
heat so we don´t realize this is happening. But we can feel it distinctly in
the education system, the media and arts, family law, the military and of
course politics.

The Anglo American elite has been trying to use oil to achieve hegemony for
more than a century. According to F. William Engdahl (A Century of War:
Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order, 1993) World War One
occurred because Germany was expanding its influence into the oil rich
Middle East. The Germans wanted to build a railroad from Berlin to Baghdad.
An outrage incident, like Sept 11, the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand,
by a Serbian "terrorist" got it started. The United States got involved
because England was losing the war and owed billions to J.P. Morgan, their
US purchase agent.

According to Engdahl, the elite was behind the oil shocks of the 1970´s. The
price of oil went sky high when Henry Kissinger maneuvered Egypt into
attacking Israel in 1973, and later when the CIA installed the Ayatollah
Khomeini because the Shah of Iran was about to build German designed nuclear
reactors. Engdahl says the oil industry is opposed to nuclear power and
funds the environmental movement for this reason. He says the Three Mile
Island scare was engineered to discredit this energy source.

The "Club of Rome" and the leaders of the major environmental groups belong
to the elite. Its "green agenda" is a zero-sum Malthusian equation: the less
there is for you, the more there will be for it. They want to hoard natural
resources, retard industrial development, and cull the population. In 1974,
the US government adopted Rockefeller protege Henry Kissinger's "NSSC
Memorandum 200". This directive made it a "national security" priority to
restrict development and population growth in the Third World in order to
access their raw materials more cheaply in the future. (Engdahl p. 164)

The war on terrorism is a charade. Sept. 11 was obviously a subterfuge that
allowed Bush to hustle billions of dollars for war contrary to the US
Constitution that gives war declaration power to congress. Sept. 11 also
provided the "moral high ground" to invade Central Asia, Russia and China´s
backyard.

According to psyche war veteran Richard Crossman: "The way to carry out good
propaganda is to never appear to be carrying it out at all."

It works. Just like the food we eat, and the cars we drive, the ideas we
think are all packaged and sold. (Opposing views are weeded out.) When CIA
stooges like Gloria Steinem say families are oppressive and women ought to
work instead of raising children, the press dutifully raves and we all obey.
When the CIA tells us nuclear power is unsafe and environmentally
unfriendly, we turn our backs on a cheap reliable source of energy. When the
CIA contracts the Mossad to stage a terror attack and tells us militant
Islam is our enemy, we salute the flag and grab a rifle.

The Iraqi war now scheduled for May-June will divide the world into three
camps: 1) the Anglo American elite, represented by George W. Bush, the US,
British and Israeli governments, their lackeys, dependents and dupes; 2)
Iraq, Iran and the part of the Muslim world that resists elite control. 3)
Europe, Russia, China, Japan and the vast majority of humanity, which likes
neither elite hegemony/blackmail nor Saddam Hussein/ Osama bin Laden and
wishes they would both go away.

I saw George W. Bush on TV surrounded by school children piously explain
that America is fighting in Afghanistan for freedom and to make the world a
better place. America is supplying soccer balls and textbooks for Afghan
children. He urged everyone to donate. I watched the children´s faces to see
if they were paying attention. Children have a way of recognizing sincerity.
They were bored.

Like the schoolchildren, the public is also inattentive. There is an
incongruous quality about this war, an instinctive sense of sham. But the
elite keeps reminding us it is genuine and for real. Every day billions more
tax dollars are allocated to build the means for it to control the world and
us. (The National Security Agency is building capacity to monitor 12 million
domestic phone calls simultaneously.)

And if we don´t play along, it holds up the subtle threat of a biological or
nuclear attack, just to convince us. If countries like Russia or China
become inattentive, it indirectly threatens them with nuclear attack. By
seeking hegemony, the Anglo American elite is playing a reckless game with
humanity. It is creating the conditions for permanent war, and permanent
oppression. Once again it is pressing the American people into the
paradoxical role of "enforcer."

http://toogoodreports.com/column/general/makow/20020327.htm

===^==========================

III. U.S. Efforts to Make Peace Summed up by 'OIL'
By Lara Marlowe
2001 Asia Times Online Co. Ltd

The fate of John O'Neill, the Irish-American FBI agent who for
years led U.S. investigations into Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaeda
network, is the most chilling revelation in the book Bin
Laden: The Hidden Truth, published in Paris this week.

O'Neill investigated the bombings of the World Trade Centre in
1993, a US base in Saudi Arabia in 1996, the US embassies in
Nairobi and Dar-Es-Salaam in 1998, and the USS Cole last year.

Jean-Charles Brisard, who wrote a report on bin Laden's
finances for the French intelligence agency DST and is
co-author of Hidden Truth, met O'Neill several times last
summer. He [O'Neill] complained bitterly that the US State
Department — and behind it the oil lobby who make up President
Bush's entourage — blocked attempts to prove bin Laden's
guilt.

The US Ambassador to Yemen, Ms. Barbara Bodine, forbade
O'Neill and his team of so-called Rambos (as the Yemeni
authorities called them) from entering Yemen. In August 2001,
O'Neill resigned in frustration and took up a new job as head
of security at the World Trade Center. He died in the
September 11th attack.

Brisard and his co-author Guillaume Dasquie, the Editor of
Intelligence Online, say their book is a tribute to O'Neill.
The FBI agent had told Brisard: "All the answers, everything
needed to dismantle Osama bin Laden's organisation, can be
found in Saudi Arabia."

But US diplomats shrank from offending the Saudi royal family.
O'Neill went to Saudi Arabia after 19 US servicemen died in
the bombing of a military installation in Dhahran in June
1996. Saudi officials interrogated the suspects, declared
them guilty and executed them — without letting the FBI talk
to them. "They were reduced to the role of forensic
scientists, collecting material evidence on the bomb site,"
Brisard says.

O'Neill said there was clear evidence in Yemen of bin Laden's
guilt in the bombing of the USS Cole, in which 17 US
servicemen died, but that the State Department prevented him
from getting it.

Brisard and Dasquie discovered that the first country to issue
an international arrest warrant against bin Laden was not the
US, but Moamar Gadafy's Libya, in March 1998. The
confidential notice, published for the first time in their
book, was sent by the Libyan interior ministry to Interpol on
March 16th, 1998, and accuses bin Laden of murdering two
German intelligence agents, Silvan Becker and his wife, in
Libya in 1994.

Bin Laden supported a fundamentalist group called al-Muqatila,
made up of Libyans who had fought with him against the
Soviets in Afghanistan.

Al-Muqatila wanted to assassinate Gadafy, whom it considered
an infidel.

According to the former MI5 agent David Shayler, British
intelligence — also in league with al-Muqatila — tried to
assassinate Gadafy in November 1996.

It was because of British collaboration with al-Muqatila that
the Interpol warrant was ignored, Brisard says. Since
September 11th, al-Muqatila has been placed on President
Bush's list of "terrorist groups".

The central thesis of Brisard and Dasquie's book is sure to
join the annals of 21st century conspiracy theories. The
writers document negotiations between the Bush administration
and the Taliban between February and August of this year.

The chief motivation behind US attempts to make peace with the
Taliban can be summed up in one word: oil. The former Soviet
republics of Central Asia — Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and
especially "the new Kuwait", Kazakhstan have vast oil and gas
reserves. But Russia has refused to allow the US to extract
it through Russian pipelines and Iran is considered a
dangerous route. That left Afghanistan.

The US oil company Chevron — where Mr. Bush's National
Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice was a director throughout the
1990s — is deeply involved in Kazakhstan. In 1995, another US
company, Unocal (formerly Union Oil Company of California)
signed a contract to export $8 billion worth of natural gas
through a $3 billion pipeline which would go from
Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan.

The authors recall how the State Department applauded the
Taliban takeover in September 1996, five months after a US
assistant secretary of state warned "economic opportunities
will be missed" if political stability was not restored in
Afghanistan.

Laila Helms, the part Afghan niece of the former CIA director
and former US Ambassador to Tehran Richard Helms, is described
as the Mata-Hari of US-Taliban negotiations. Ms. Helms
brought Sayed Rahmatullah Hashimi, an adviser to Mullah
[Muhammad] Omar, to Washington for five days in March 2001 —
after the Taliban had destroyed the ancient Buddhas of
Bamiyan.

Hashimi met the directorate of Central Intelligence at the
CIA and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the State
Department. In negotiations which continued until July, the
US then took a more discreet position, letting the UN envoy
Francesc Vendrell do most of the work and appointing a former
US Ambassador to Pakistan, Thomas Simons, to represent the US
at informal meetings in Berlin.

The last direct US contact with the Taliban was on August 2nd,
2001, when Christina Rocca, the director of Asian affairs at
the State Department, met the Taliban Ambassador in Islamabad.
Ms. Rocca was previously in charge of contacts with Islamist
guerrilla groups at the CIA, where in the 1980s, she oversaw
the delivery of Stinger missiles to Afghan mujaheddin.

Last February, the Taliban had indicated it might be willing
to hand over bin Laden, but by June, according to Brisard and
Dasquie, the US began considering military action. "The US
thought they could 'decouple' Osama bin Laden from the
Taliban," Brisard says. "What they did not understand was
that without bin Laden, the Taliban regime wouldn't have
existed."

By dispatching Francesc Vendrell to see the exiled King Zaher
Shah in Rome and raising the threat of military action,
Washington "backed the Taliban into a corner", the authors
say.

======^========================

IV. New Book Details Bush/Big Oil Negotiations With Taliban Before
WTC
By "TOP VIEW"

Fact: The World Trade Center (WTC) was bombed right AFTER
Bush-Taliban oil pipeline talks soured. The talks soured right
AFTER Bush/Big Oil threatened Taliban to take their offer or
receive a "carpet of bombs." Bush-Cheney/Big Oil and Afghanist
an's Taliban negotiated for MONTHS over running a Caspian Sea
oil pipeline through Afghanistan. Talks began in February and
continued right on until only one MONTH before New York City's
World Trade Center towers were demolished.

DURING the course of these negotiations, the two parties were
unable to agree upon a deal, MAINLY because Bush/Big Oil
agents constantly upped the ante on the rather naive Taliban
representatives: playing intimidation, bait & switch, and
"shell" games relentlessly. The Taliban negotiators,
understandably, became distrustful of the entire process, and
less and less confident they were being dealt with in good
faith.

In the beginning of August, the Bush Administration and its
Big Oil cohorts delivered what amounted to an ultimatum to
the Taliban.

The Taliban representatives were reportedly told by Bush/Big
Oil: Accept our offer of "a carpet of gold or you'll get a
carpet of bombs."

That's a DIRECT quote, according to French authors
Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, who've just
written a thoroughly-researched and heavily-documented book
about the entire extraordinary business titled "Bin Laden:
The Forbidden Truth".

ALSO revealed in the book is the fact that BUSH HIMSELF
directly ordered the FBI and other U.S. law enforcement groups
to BACK OFF on TERRORIST-RELATED INVESTIGATIONS while the oil
pipeline negotiations were underway!

In FACT, the FBI's Deputy Director John O'Neill resigned in
July in protest over this outrageous and intolerable
obstruction. And by the way: the whereabouts of one OSAMA BIN
LADEN, then already firmly entrenched at the very top of the
US's "most-wanted terrorist" list during the entire course of
these pipeline negotiations, was NEVER an issue with the Bush
cartel.

Never ONCE were the Taliban urged to hand bin Laden over for
all those OTHER horrendous crimes Feds maintain bin Laden has
been charged with committing over the years.

And SO: barely a MONTH after the Bush administration sabotaged
the negotiations with the Taliban regarding running the
Caspian Sea oil pipeline through Afghanistan, the World Trade
Center towers are bombed into oblivion, bringing about the
currently ongoing UNDECLARED (and therefore illegal) "war on
terrorism" ... that just HAPPENS to be directed at the
Taliban in Afghanistan.

The WTC was bombed — according to Feds — by the VERY SAME
Osama bin Laden whom the very same Bush administration was so
UNCONCERNED ABOUT during those JUST-WRECKED talks with the
Taliban. NO ONE but the Bush administration and their Big Oil
allies/accomplices — not the Taliban, not the Palestinians,
not ANY other nation whether Islamic or otherwise — not any
other group, agency, force or faction on Earth stood to
"GAIN" from the destruction of the World Trade Center which
occurred only ONE MONTH after talks between the Bush
administration and the Taliban fell apart due to outrageous
threats and intimidation by Bush/Big Oil "negotiators."

The World Trade Center Demolition
and the So-Called War on Terrorism <../wtc.html> Serendipity Home Page
<../index.html>

-----
Thanks to Robin.
======^========================

V. (on the agitprop disinfo strategy to divide U.S. Jews and
gentiles on 911 frame-up crime)
by "J.J."

Also: This warning [for mature audiences]

This page brings out details of the French book Bin Laden: The
Hidden Truth, which now has an English translation out. Some intriguing
details here.
http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wot/bl_tft.htm
However, this links back to a larger article on September 11 that
is replete with information and disinformation, and it's right
wing and anti-semitic biases are just below the surface of the text. It
poses that the plane crases and fires did not demolish the Towers, but
controlled demolition instead, and that the planes were flown by
remote control into the targets. Both claims have some feasibility, but
this article is nor providing researched, scientific or engineering
proof, just speculations. It does link to more information on some of
those items. However, the article is marked by claims that the purchase
of the building by Larry Silverstein somehow allowed a "Mossad-trained"
security force to control the building and set up the demolition (he's
Jewish after all), it lists levels of civilian death in the past for
comparison purposes, but focuses first on Stalin not Hitler, and
undercounts seriously Native American genocide figures here,
never mentioning Black slavery genocide, for instance. It asserts the
usual "plot to destroy the Republic" by the One World government forces
(do they need to say Jews any more?) and even goes further suggesting
that some evil extraterrestrial alien force is the source of man's
inhumanity to man over centuries. At the same time it borrows from
progressive critiques on coroporate and US policy deaths abroad, then says
we
had this coming. It exonerates the alleged perpetrators as patsies in
a controlled scenario, planned out to benefit Israel. Here's the bottom
line of what America should do: "America could see this painful strike at
her
Wall Street and her Pentagon, as the last call to repent. She should change
her
advisers, and build her relations with the world afresh, on equal
footing. Probably she should rein in the domination-obsessed
Jewish supremacist elites of Wall Street and media, part company
with Israeli apartheid." Get it? This is the way disinformation works.
No one takes credit for this article, but the mentality of the author is
clear enough. JJ

http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wot/bl_tft.htm

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsible to every other man.

The Pentagon was hit by a small jet, captured on DoD
grounds surveillance -- the "smoking gun" evidence
of the 911 frame-up cane be viewed at
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Recommended 911 sites:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm

http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine

http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert (world spokesman calling for
911 investigation and indictments) or use mirror: www.bighula.com/copvcia/

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk

www.narconews.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com

---

Key visual Pentagon evidence:

Dick Eastman

unread,

Mar 28, 2002, 10:04:12 AM3/28/02

There are still three confirmed serious discussants on this thread. I
think the following needed to be said, but the message is very painful
-- since Bush-Rumsffeld-Wolfowitz have already killed several
"clueless mercenaries" (although some were well-clued CIA sociopaths
in it for the drug money) who are my countrymen and the sons,
husbands, and daddy's of my countrymen.
---------------------

IQ Test: Russian Soldiers, Israeli Soldiers, American soldiers: U.S.
wins
gold, silver and bronze in "Who's dumbest " clueless mercenary
competition.

1. U.S. soldiers and airpersons killing women and children civilians
in
Afganistan -- the nation whose leader, whose George Washington who,
with
the loss of an eye, beat the Russian "redcoats" , whose great man Amir
Mullah Modhammed Omar dared to

a) erradicate the Northern Alliance druglord opium production
supplying
China's
heroin production that provides big hotmoney liquidity to
Anglo-American
investment
banking globalists;

b) say "No!" to an oil pipeline through Afganistan from Kazakhstan and
those
other "-istan" countries that Rothschild-agent Gorbechev broke off
from the
banker-criminal discombobulated former Soviet Union to make for easier
globalization predation of mineral wealth etc.; and

c) and make the condition that he would turn over accused Osama bin
Ladin
the minute George Bush provided the evidence that, by international
agreement, is always provided in criminal extradition requests --

our soldiers sent by Bush to "get" Osama bin Ladin kill with gusto as
they
say, interviewed in USAToday, that they are there "for payback," that
this
time "it's personal," that they are there "for New York" -- totally
kept
in the dark about the fact that the attack on the wtc and the offices
of
Naval Intelligence at the Pentagon was the work of criminals behind
their
own commander in chief, that the wtc terror was a frame-up aimed at
Mohammed
Omar because he defied criminal globalization, because he said "No!"
to the
pornographic global plantation.

ANd yes, the U.S. military have announced that it is not their job to
erradicate the opium fields that will supply next year's heroin drug
slavery
and culture sabotage to Western Europe, the U.S. and the rest of the
world -- so expect the profits of the American financial sector,
which is
responsible for lifting the U.S. GDP to pick up (Greenspan's optimism
is
hard to conceal).

SO how dumb is that?

But the Israeli's are saying no to Rothschild puppet Sharon's
bloodletting
policies and now Russian soldiers are refusing to participate in the
bloodbath in Chechnya that they each know is simple naked aggression
and
terror against peoples in the dishonestly commandeered name of
"anti-terrorism. Read the two following articles about the great
humanity
of these common Russian and Israeli soldiers who would have made
George
Washington so proud to see that the spirit of revolt against arbitrary
tyranny has not vanished from the world
(just from the United States):

1. MORE THAN 1,000 ISRAELI SOLDIERS REFUSE TO FIGHT IN OCCUPIED
TERRITORIES

PASSOVER: 4 glasses of wine for the Refuseniks!!

Please distribute widely!

COURAGE TO REFUSE CAMPAIGN (C2R) E-Newsletter #1, March 28, 2002
www.couragetorefuse.org

>>> Building support for and visibility of the growing ranks of
courageous
Israeli military refusers, many of whom declare: "We shall not
continue to
fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and
humiliate an entire people."

HIGHLIGHTS

* The campaign was launched with the publication of a full-page in the
Chicago Reader, which included the names of over 80 Chicago Jews. We
now
have a total of more than 250 signers on the campaign and these
numbers are
sure to grow quickly. If you have not yet joined the Courage to Refuse
campaign, please visit the website immediately and do so!

* Supporters have sent in over $5000 for the campaign and direct
support
for refusers. We need to raise much more money to support our planned
ad
campaigns, speaker tours and direct support efforts, but that is a
great
start. Our deepest thanks to all who have contributed to strengthen
the
voices of the refusers.

* Information about the campaign is spreading rapidly. Most exciting,
our
campaign was listed on the Ohmets Lsarev site:
http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp as "Campaign of American Jews
Supporting Us" (it now looks to be in the process of moving to a
separate
Links page). A note from Peretz Kidron of Yesh Gvul: "We're touched
by
your very moving appeal, and we wish you success in your efforts. This
is
the time for Jews everywhere - and all who consider themselves friends
of
Israel - to raise their voices in support of the Israeli opposition."

* The website, www.couragetorefuse.org, is evolved rapidly to meet the
needs of the campaign. You can join on-line, and we will soon allow
you to
make tax-deductible contributions with credit card directly on the
site.
The Resources page offers several goodies, most importantly for this
week a
Haggadah insert regarding the military refusers, written by Laurie
Zimmerman. Download it and use in your seders this week! The Refusers
Tour
page will offer comprehensive information about all known refuser
tours
outside of Israel. Check the website regularly for new features and
updates. Our thanks to Roni Terkel, Yoni Reinberg, Joel Finkel and
Aaron
Lisman for all your efforts in building the C2R website.

* The campaign is sponsoring two tours of refusers in May. Haggai
Matar, a
high school senior who signed the open "Seniors' Letter" to Ariel
Sharon,
will be visiting Chicago (May 5 - 10), Minneapolis (May 11-12),
Madison
(May 13-14) and New York City (May 15-25). Ram Rahat (Yesh Gvul) and
Ishai
Sagi (Ohmets Lesarev) will be in the Bay Area from May 15 to May 22.
They
will then spend time in Chicago, Indiana, Southern Illinois and
perhaps
other locations until June 1. More information on these tours is now
available on our website; just click on the "Refuser Tours" button.

SEDER OF A THOUSAND REFUSENIKS

[the following announcement was sent out by Yesh Gvul ("There is a
Limit!").]

Tuesday April 2, on the hill overlooking Military Prison 6 (Athlit),
we
will hold a FREEDOM SEDER to celebrate Passover (Pesach), the festival
of
freedom, in solidarity with the imprisoned refuseniks who have offered
up
their own freedom in the cause of ensuring the freedom of another
people.

This will be the SEDER OF A THOUSAND REFUSENIKS, marking the fact that
the
number of refuseniks - IDF soldiers and reservists who have already
refused
to serve in the occupied territories, or are committed to refusal if
posted
there - now runs into FOUR FIGURES.

We invite all refuseniks - past and future - to come to Athlit and
join us
in raising the FOUR GLASSES of freedom. The ceremony will be held in
the
early afternoon, in good time to get home before the onset of the
festival.

To our friends and supporters worldwide: join us in celebrating the
Refusenik Seder with a similar event in your own community!

[End of message from Peretz Kidron of Yesh Gvul]

ABOUT THE COURAGE TO REFUSE CAMPAIGN

The objective of the C2R campaign is to build support for and
visibility of
the growing ranks of courageous Israeli military refusers. We believe
that
these refusers, who now number over 1000 (corresponding to roughly
40,000
Americans) will play a critical role in building a successful movement
in
Israel for a just peace and end to the occupation.

Initiated by Not In My Name (www.nimn.org), the campaign consists of a
range of activities, from publishing ads in media outlets to bringing
refusers to the United States to tell their stories face-to-face, to
direct
support for imprisoned refusers and their families.

Please join us by visiting www.couragetorefuse.org. Imagine the power
of
1,000 and then 5,000 and then 10,000 American Jews and others coming
together to raise our voices in support of the refusers...acting as
one, we
can have an impact that will energize our own efforts here in the
United
States and be heard clearly all the way to Israel and the Occupied
Territories.

TO GET IN TOUCH

If you have any questions about anything in this newsletter or about
the
Courage to Refuse campaign, please send an email to
newsl...@couragetorefuse.org. You can also call us 312.409.4845 or
write
us at PMB 206
2859 Central St, Evanston, IL 60201 USA.

True Israel -- the people of Israel -- are humanitarian and just and
must
be remembered as such by all peoples -- even as they are manipulated
by the
Sharon-Peres bankers' puppets.

#2: Russian troops in Chechnya revolt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F03%2F27%2Fwc
hech27.xml

By Marcus Warren in Moscow

(Filed: 27/03/2002)

A WAVE of revolt is sweeping through Russia's military elite as troops
refuse to act as "cannon fodder" in the continuing war in Chechnya.

Outraged by poor pay, incompetent commanders and antiquated equipment,
a
growing number of soldiers from specially trained Interior Ministry
units
are threatening to disobey orders to serve in the rebel republic.

In the latest case of open insubordination, members of an elite
paramilitary squad from the northern city of Cherepovets have given
their
superiors until next week to heed their demands.

An ultimatum to their commanders, published across a whole page of
Komsomolskaya Pravda, a national newspaper, yesterday, ridiculed
Moscow
bureaucrats for claiming that there is no war under way in Chechnya,
just a
"counter-terrorist operation".

Their protest came to light on the same day that Russia released
figures
showing that 3,220 soldiers have been killed and nearly 9,000 injured
in
two and a half years of fighting in Chechnya. The Cherepovets
soldiers'
defiance is only the most recent example of a collapse in morale among
Interior Ministry troops - professionals, unlike the conscripts
serving in
the army - ordered to deploy to the North Caucasus.

Units from Syktykvar, Kaliningrad, Murmansk and Vologda, all cities in
Russia's north or north west, have all protested at the length and
conditions of their tours of duty in Chechnya so far this year. Among
their grievances are efforts by their commanders to cut their bonuses
for
being involved in combat.

The Cherepovets ultimatum goes further, heaping scorn on "Moscow
clerks",
the officers commanding operations in the region and corrupt
pro-Russian
Chechen officials.

Troops posted to Chechnya had to take their food, water and bedding
with
them as supplies were "pitiful", the Cherepovets unit said.

Russia maintains an 80,000-strong force in Chechnya to assert its
authority
over the war zone but a shortage of combat-ready units has put severe
strain on the military.
==================

God bless the real heart of the Russian people as well.

THose RUssian and Israeli soldiers are the greater servants of their
countries
even as they are true brothers to the whole world.

And the Bush-Blair-Sharon prepare the next frame-up -- this time
using
nuclear and biological weapons -- from the vast underground shelters
they
have spent hundreds of billions of top-secret funding to deploy. (And
don't
think you can make this terrifying fact go away by throwing tomatoes
at the
messengers. The spirit of death will not be passing over America's
door.
It's settling in for a long stay. "Those who live by the sword shall
die by
the sword."

Think about those Israeli and Russian soldiers of righteousness. In
that
direction lies our only hope of survival and peace.

Angel Elf

unread,

Mar 31, 2002, 8:16:56 AM3/31/02

Haiba King <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message news:<a7l5jn$aci$1...@news3.bu.edu>...

> Say, Dick? I know you're lying. You know you're lying. The widow and
> daughter of the guy who USED to live next door to me but who is NOW DEAD
> after being on the airplane he boarded which slammed into the Pentagon,
> know you're lying.
> So here we go....
> You obviously have an agenda. Wy don't you just tell us what you want
> (money, attention, the chance to promote your views, etc.) so we can
> get to the bottom of this a lot faster. It's so much easier to tell
> the truth.
> I'm sick of seeing your posts in this newsgroup as they are irrelevant
> to the topic here. Please just tell us why you're lying so we can end
> this thread.
> Thank you.
>
> P.S. Go fuck yourself.
>

I don't think that Dick is "lying". I think he really believes the
theories that he spews forth. He must have a lot of time on his hands
because of the sheer volume of stuff he puts out. Either that or
there is more then one Dick Eastman.

Haiba King

unread,

Mar 31, 2002, 12:51:07 PM3/31/02

I think Dick (whether it's more than one person or not) know he's lying.
You'll notice that he never answers the questions put forth to him; he
doesn't even try to. He never answers "what happened to the people on
Flight 77?" (as he says a military drone crashed into the Pentagon) or
"how do you explain the cel phone calls from the airplanes from passengers
who describe Arabic men sky-jacking the planes?".
He's got a politic agenda to promote.
Notice how he blames September 11th on George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald
Rumsfeld. He also mentions that a dry-run for Sepetmber 11th was
the Egypt Air flight that crashed back in October of 1999. At that time
Rumsfeld and Cheney were not in politics at all, and Bush back then
was only the governor of Texas.
Dick Eastman knows he's lying to promote his hatred of the government
and in particular of George Bush, and to support his ego.
I sure as hell am no Republican and did not vote for Bush (and probably
won't in 2004 either), but I don't blame him for thousands of peoples
deaths to promote my dislike for the man. Plus he's looking for
attentoin to satisfy his ego. Notice how whenever someone disagrees
with him either "Dick" or one of his mindless bulldogs will immediately
respond by posting that anyone who criticizes him "lacks intelligence"
and is a "blind sheep" who believes anything the government tells him/her.
It's the whole "Emperor's New Clothes" approach to try and get people
to acknowledge yourself as a genius. Seems to be generally failing though.

Haiba King

unread,

Mar 31, 2002, 12:57:31 PM3/31/02

Dick knows he's lying. He'll never answers questions like:

- What happened to flight 77 and the people on it? (he claims that a
drone crashed into the Pentagon and no commercial plane was there)

- How do you explain the cel phone calls from people on the airplanes
who claimed Arabic men were sky-jacking the planes? (he claims the
planes that flew into the Twin Towers were remote controlled by
George Bush)

- Eastman says Bush, Cheney and Rumsfled are responsible for 9/11 and
as a dry-run, the Egyptair flight that crashed in 1999. Only problem
is that Rumsfled and Cheney were not in politics at the time of the
Egyptair flight and Bush was only the governor of Texas.

Eastman has a political agenda to promote and wants to stroke his ego
too. If you criticize him you'll be told by one of his mindless
grinning buldogs (if they even are other people or just Eastman
writing under another name) that you "lack intelligence" and are
a "blind sheep" who believes everything the government tells you.

It's the "Emperor's New Clothes" approach. You tell other people
they are fucking morons if they don't believe what you say. Then
you use cliched phrases like "blind sheep", etc.

He knows what he's saying. He knows he's lying.

In alt.fan.howard-stern Angel Elf <Ange...@angelfire.com> wrote:

Angel Elf

unread,

Apr 1, 2002, 11:24:26 AM4/1/02

After asking him what happened to Flight 77 if it didn't crash
into the Pentagon I got this reply in which he claims the passengers
were somehow kidnapped and sent to some top secret location.
Even he says that it is, "Far Fetched".

He accuses Hillary Clinton of being involved with the bombing of
the Federal Building in Oklahoma and that she had Nicole Brown
Simpson and Ron Goldman murdered to divert attention from the White
Water Scandal. I guess O.J. can stop looking for the killers.

You are also correct about his "mindless bulldogs" and criticism
of anyone that disagrees with these ridiculous conspiracies. Some
of them even become foul mouth abusives.

This is a direct quote from Dick:

"Flight 77 -- Atlantic Trench or kidnap victims? Is Hillary Clinton
enemy Barbara Olsen still alive?

We now know Flight 77 was not crashed into the Pentagon.
An F-16 flew over the Boeing 757 for a while, and then the airliner
was diverted with transponder off, flown by remote control to either
a crash site or a landing site known only to the 911 perpetrators.
From this follows the possibility that passengers and crew
may yet be alive or may have been alive as captives some days
following September 11 frame-up.

I know this is far-fetched. I know this is not what the families of
the victims need to hear right now. But there is a possibility that
kidnap victims are being held somewhere and my responsibility is to
them if they exist (and I think they may.)

When I learned that Hillary Clinton's severest biographer critic,
Barbara Olsen was on Flight 77 it became important to learn what
business put her on Flight 77 to Los Angeles on September 11.
From now on the passengers of flight 77 must be considered possible
kidnap victims. The amorality and arrogance of the criminal elites
responsible for the 911 frame-up make this a reasonable suspicion
and avenue of investigation. But another theory that must be also
be tested against the facts involves a willing cell-phone actress.
Intelligent internet discussants of every political stripe are
concluding that Flight 77 was not destroyed at the Pentagon.
We must determine where the abductors took that plane.

I have long been convinced that Hillary Clinton was behind the Nicole
Brown and Ron Goldman murders that created the distraction the night
before the very day Hillary became the first First Lady to testify
in a criminal investigation. I also know that she was involved in
serious economic crime when she received criminal payment for
corrupt services in the form of a million-to-one (i.e. impossible
to come by honestly) illegally manipulated first-timer bonanza
killing in the commodities futures speculation.

Also, that she had one of the Secret Service men she detested, a man
who might have heard too much, transferred to Oklahoma city -- to
perish in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building there, even
as the drug-trade-dealing BATF chose to be away from the office that
day. And there is the Vince Foster murder. If Mrs. Olsen is in the
hands of Hillary Clinton and her associates now, I am sure she would
much rather be in the Atlantic trench.

Ever wonder about all the unaccounted-for time that Bill Clinton (that
closet Bush man and cfr stooge and hit man) spent in Harlem, New York
prior to September 11.

It's time for the many who know about these crimes to come forward --
but come forward to the internet first -- it is the people, not the
criminals who need to hear your story.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington"

Haiba King <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message news:<a87iab$sa2$1...@news3.bu.edu>...

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 2, 2002, 9:27:04 AM4/2/02

Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02040...@posting.google.com>...

> After asking him what happened to Flight 77 if it didn't crash
> into the Pentagon I got this reply in which he claims the passengers
> were somehow kidnapped and sent to some top secret location.
> Even he says that it is, "Far Fetched".

I also suggested the Atlantic Trench. I did not say "top secret
location" -- it was an airliner, lots of airliners were in the sky
that morning and they all had to land -- Flight 77 would have been
lost among the crowd -- all the perpetrators would have to do is
control one hanger for a few hours -- easy in a national airport
emergency. There is also the thrid theory that cannot yet be rejected
that there was not Flight 77 -- although the deception involved with
this one seems overwhemling even for the trillions in assets of
deviant fiance capitalism.

Yet we know for certain that the Pentagon was taken out by a
remote-controlled F-16 that fired a missile ahead to the point of its
own collision.
So, if you know that the biggest elephant of the circus is not in your
living room it must be somewhere else, right? The government's own
video camera shows that F-16, not a 757, attack the Pentagon -- then
the plane must be elsewhere if there was a plane. Also right? SO if
a newsgroup discussant does not agree with my current working
hypotheses of what happened to Flight 77 he should come up with a
better one -- but this is certain, he cannot default to the position
that a Boeing went into the Pentagon, that possibility is eliminated
by direct inspection of what happened, by merely looking at the
Pentagon's onw security camera record that shows the F-16 firing the
missile:

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

and also this:

http://www.thepowerhour.com/pentgallery/FrameSet.htm

Scroll down to the 47th picture which is labeled pentani.ipg
and to the 51st picture labeled pentvid1

>
> He accuses Hillary Clinton of being involved with the bombing of
> the Federal Building in Oklahoma and that she had Nicole Brown
> Simpson and Ron Goldman murdered to divert attention from the White
> Water Scandal. I guess O.J. can stop looking for the killers.

You can take that as right. Do you care to dispute this? The
information I have collected is overwhelming. The murder was committed
to provide cover for the Clintons in the whitewater investigation --
the murder taking place the very night of Hillary's testimony before
the special prosecutor. Yes, I agree with the Los Angeles jury and NY
forensics expert Lee that O.J. is innocent. (Is that a crime?)

>
> You are also correct about his "mindless bulldogs" and criticism
> of anyone that disagrees with these ridiculous conspiracies. Some
> of them even become foul mouth abusives.

I don't own a bulldog. I had a mongrel but the neighbor poisoned it
trying to kill the roosters that I bought for my daughters the year
before (when they where chicks and I thought they would grow into
quiet hens) -- it was the very day I had arranged for someone to take
the them off my hands.

I don't know what others say -- all I can tell you is that I don't
write other people's material and that profanity is often born of
exasperation.

>
> This is a direct quote from Dick:
>
> "Flight 77 -- Atlantic Trench or kidnap victims? Is Hillary Clinton
> enemy Barbara Olsen still alive?
>
> We now know Flight 77 was not crashed into the Pentagon.
> An F-16 flew over the Boeing 757 for a while, and then the airliner
> was diverted with transponder off, flown by remote control to either
> a crash site or a landing site known only to the 911 perpetrators.
> From this follows the possibility that passengers and crew
> may yet be alive or may have been alive as captives some days
> following September 11 frame-up.
>
> I know this is far-fetched. I know this is not what the families of
> the victims need to hear right now. But there is a possibility that
> kidnap victims are being held somewhere and my responsibility is to
> them if they exist (and I think they may.)

My internet connections have come back I discover at 4:00 this
morning. While I was down I looked back over posts since
Sept 11 -- hundreds of them -- and picked out some that we
need to be reminded of:
======^=====================

Christopher Bollyn (AFP) writes:

The day two passenger planes crashed into the World Trade Center ended
differently
for different people. For some 10,000 children it meant the loss of a
mother or father.
For millions of Americans it marked the end of normality. For a select
group of financial
speculators it meant increased profits.

There have been numerous reports of unusual activity in financial
markets around the
world suggesting prior knowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World
Trade Center
and the Pentagon.

In Chicago, home of the Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE), the
largest of the
five options exchanges in the nation, brokers and speculators known as
options traders
wage bets daily about what a stock price will do. In options trades
there are winners
and losers regardless of the outcome.

The catastrophic events of Sept. 11 were no different; the devastation
at the World
Trade Center resulted in some speculators winning millions of dollars
from options
purchased at the CBOE-while others lost their lives.

A $2.5 million winning that resulted when the United Airlines share
price fell after two of
its planes crashed remains unclaimed more than six weeks after the
tragedy.

Investigations into the unusually high number of "put" options,
betting that the price of
United Airlines (UAL) and American Airlines shares would fall, have
revealed that Alex
Brown Inc., an investment banking firm, purchased many of these option
contracts.
Alex Brown Inc. was, until 1998, managed by the man who is now the
executive
director of the Central Intelligence Agency, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard.

Krongard, 64, former head of Baltimore-based Alex Brown, America's
oldest
investment bank, joined the CIA three years ago as a counselor to
Director of Central
Intelligence George Tenet.

Krongard switched careers shortly after helping engineer the $2.5
billion merger of Alex
Brown and Bankers Trust New York Corp., gaining $71 million in Bankers
Trust stock
in the process.

President Bush appointed Krongard executive director of the Central
Intelligence
Agency on March 26. From February 1998 until March 2001, Krongard
served as
counselor to the director of central intelligence. Until 1997 Krongard
was chairman of
the investment bank A.B. Brown, having previously worked in various
capacities at Alex
Brown.

Krongard was quoted on the relationship between Wall Street and the
CIA in an article
by The Washington Post. If you go back to the CIA's origins during
World War II in the
Office of Strategic Services, Krongard told the Post, "the whole OSS
was really nothing
but Wall Street bankers and lawyers."

OPTIONS SPIKES

Between Sept. 6 and 7, the CBOE saw a dramatic spike in the purchases
of put options
on United Airlines stock compared to call options.

A "put" option increases in value when the stock price falls, while a
"call" option
increases if the share price rises. The ratio of "put" options to
"call" options was 12 to 1,
with 2,372 "put" options purchased, betting that UAL stock would fall
compared with
198 "call" options. The winners on these options deals walked away
with untold millions
of dollars in profits.

On Sept. 10, speculators in Chicago purchased put options on American
Airlines, the
other airlines involved in the hijackings, at a ratio of 6 to 1
against "call" options. Traders
bought 2,258 put options as compared with 374 "call" options the day
before the
crashes.

There were similar spikes in "put" option contracts on the shares of
the investment firms
of Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co. and Merrill Lynch & Co., major
tenants of the
World Trade Center, occupying 22 floors each, who were both devastated
by the terror
attacks.

In the three days of trading prior to Sept. 11, Morgan Stanley "put"
options spiked
dramatically.

According to figures provided by Options Clearing Corp. of Chicago,
during the two
trading days before the attacks the total number of "put" options
jumped to 7,647
compared with a daily average of 2,384 during the month of August.
Morgan Stanley's
shares fell from $48.90 to $42.50 in the aftermath of the attacks.

Likewise, Merrill Lynch "put" options jumped to 64,445 in the three
days before the
attacks. On Sept. 10, 28,960 "put" options were purchased on Merrill
Lynch compared
with a daily average of 5,430 during the month of August. Merrill's
shares fell from
$46.88 to $41.50. H
========^==================

I asked my source about what happened to the five Israelis the FBI
arrested
that I knew about. They were videotaping the destruction of the WTC
and were
shouting with joy and mockery, form the top of a nearby building, he
told
me the following.

"I have run the mill of my confidential informants and what I received
concerning the arrest of Israeli Foreign Nationals and/or Israeli
Mossad
agents is that THIS INFORMATION is being SUPPRESSED by the National
Media.
These ONGOING arrests are at present REMAINING CLASSIFIED BY OUR
GOVERNMENT and especially the FBI. Of the over 100+ arrests, there
remain an unusual and extremely large number of arrest that are
CONFIRMED Israeli
Mossad/Foreign Nationals, and this comes form the highest sources
within
those who are "IN THE KNOW',..SO TO SPEAK. Even the news articles that
have
been released about these previously arrested, have been "swept up"
simply
because of the unusually high number of Israelis involved." End.

Also did you know that about 4,000 Israelis did not show up for work
at the
World Trade Center on Sept. 11th. (Sep. 11th was not a Jewish
holiday).

Remember what my one reader said that I printed in the article
"Mid-East
Turmoil" on 4/5/01 about the abundance of Jews traveling and said,
"Are they
traveling more than the rest of us spreading their "cause" secretly
doing
their thing? That came to mind when I found out about the 4,000 not
showing
up for work that day. Some things you just don't want to discuss by
e-mail
or on the telephone.

Morgan Stanley occupying 50 floors lost no one nor did Oppenhimer
Funds.

Who but a large government that has stolen almost all our nuclear and
other
TOP Secrets could have broke the ultra-secret White House code and
sent a
message to the White House control center on Sept. 11th , saying, "Air
Force
One is next"?

Another thing that has been covered up is that fighter aircraft shot
down
the Airliner that crashed in Pennsylvania. There were eyewitness
accounts.
When I heard there were body parts, a leg and a foot with a shoe on
it,
found eight miles from the crash site I knew the plane had to have
been
blown up in the air. There is no way that a plane that was so
disintegrated
that the largest part found at the crash site was 2Ft.X 3Ft., could
possibly
have thrown that body part eight miles away. Carol Valentine tells of
all
the other wreckage found in other places far from the scene of the
crash and
the eyewitness accounts also. There is no use my quoting that which
she so
thoroughly covered in her article. If you cannot pull up the article
contact
me, I'll see you get a copy.

Yet, even though it was reported that the order was given to shoot
that
plane down the government denies it. There is nothing wrong with
shooting
down that plane when three others had already been flown into other
buildings. A commander HAS to make decisions sometimes to sacrifice
some to
save many. Yet, the government it seems is afraid to tell the truth
about
anything to the people.

This would also show that Pres. Bush and the "good guys" in the
military did
not know about the attack beforehand. If they were a part of it, why
shoot
it down? But, with Echelon and the billions we spend on defense and
Intel,
some surly knew!

========^=========================

On your several excellent postings on 'no hijackers', I had been
thinking
along those lines too, especially after being reminded of the advances
in
remote piloting. The senior flight attendant that called into her base
giving
seat numbers of the hijackers that were different from those
officially
announced, also stands out.

On Egypt Air 900, I was active in several newsgroups that dealt with
that
early on. The most telling piece of that event for me was the TWO
unscheduled
landings it had and the unusually elite passenger list that included
Egyptian
military leadership. It not only stopped at Vandenberg AFB and took on
passengers, but it was also reported on EARLY national broadcast news,
that
it made another unscheduled stop prior to NYC. That stop, which was
later
mentioned as a mistake and resulting from confusion of airport city
codes,
quickly becoming vanished and non-history. That second stop was
Andrews AFB.
........... While the official story of suicide actions by the copilot
always
felt fictional, your suggestion that it could have been a
rehersal/actual use
of remote piloting/hijacking, is most instructive.
========^=======================

So just who WAS on those aircraft?

The government could point their finger at any one of us next!!

In the rush to sell an invasion of Afghanistan, our government and
media have
been waving a bunch of middle eastern faces at us on the TV; photos of
the
dangerous hijackers who ploughed their stolen aircraft into the World
Trade
Center and the Pentagon. Flight 93 was supposedly flown by Captain
Saeed
al-Ghamdi and a second hijacker named Bukhari, while Abdulrahman
al-Omari
was supposed to be at the controls of flight 11. Going from these
suspects,
links are being created to point the finger of blame at various
targets,
including but not limited to Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, etc. Ah, but
the
best laid plans gang aft aglay and there's a problem! Mr. al-Omari, a
pilot with Saudi Airlines, just walked into the US embassy in Jeddah
to demand why he was being reported as a dead hijacker in the American
media. Likewise Mr. al-Ghamdi is still alive and well and at his job
for
Tunis Air, while Mr. Bukhari has been dead for two years now,
according
to the Saudi Gazette in a story dated September 18th, 2001.

In a recent development, the BBC is reporting that the transcript of a
phone
call made by Flight Attendant Madeline Amy Sweeney to Boston air
traffic
controls shows that the flight attendant gave the seat numbers
occupied by
the hijackers, seat numbers which were NOT the seats of the men the
FBI
claimed were responsible for the hijacking!

Even CNN is now reporting that the men who hijacked those aircraft
were
using phony IDs, using the names of real people still living in Arab
nations
in the middle east.

So, one fact is now apparent. If those who hijacked those airplanes
were using
stolen identities, then we don't know who they were or who they worked
for.
We can't. It's impossible.

Now, people who are intending to commit suicide normally don't worry
about
whether anyone knows their real name, and it is here that some other
odd
aspects of this case take on a new meaning.

We are told that the group that planned and carried out the hijackings
and
subsequent attack on the World Trade Towers were highly trained
(possibly
by the CIA) experts, with knowledge of how to steal identities, forge
fake
IDs, and compromise White House and Air Force One security codes.

Yet at the same time, we are being told that these same hijackers
spent the
night before the attack getting drunk in bars, making noise, screaming
insults
at the "infidels", and doing everything they could to attract
attention to
themselves. They used the credit cards issued in their stolen names,
allowed
their driver's licenses with the stolen names to be photocopied, and
used
public library computers to send emails back and forth using their
stolen
names signed to unencrypted messages about their plans to steal
aircraft
and crash them into buildings, then decorated their apartments with
absurdly obvious props such as a crop dusting manual to the point
where
the whole affair reads like a low budget "B" detective movie from the
1930s.

In short, these men did everything they could to make sure everyone
knew
who they were, or more to the point, who they were pretending to be.

Because the IDs used by the hijackers were phony, we cannot know who
they really were or who they really worked for. But what is apparent
is that
those who planned the hijackings and the attacks on the World Trade
Towers
went out of their way to leave plenty of clues pointing to citizens of
Arab
nations of the middle east.
=====^===================

Retired U.S. Army colonel, Donn de Grand Pré is the author of
Confessions
of an Arms Peddler and Window on America. Here, at last, is the man
of
solid integrity who has joined like-minded technical experts to get to
the
truth.

De Grand Pré's letter is truth's first major victory in an
information war
that has
had the good guys at the mercy of an elusive and consumately deceitful
enemy.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsible to every other man.

======================================

THE ENEMY IS INSIDE THE GATES

by Donn de Grand Pré

A dedicated group of experienced civilian and military pilots,
including
combat fighter pilots and commercial airline captains, just finished
a
marathon 72 hours of non-stop briefings and debate over the current
crisis
evolving from the use of commercial aircraft as cruise missiles
against the
World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 11 September.

The so-called terrorist attack was in fact a superbly executed
military
operation against the United States, requiring the utmost
professional
military skill in command, communications and control. It was
flawless in
timing, in the choice of selected aircraft to be used as guided
missiles,
and in the coordinated delivery of those missiles to their
pre-selected
targets.

As a tactical military exercise against two significant targets
(world
financial center and the citadel of world strategic military
planning), the
attack, from a psychological impact on the American public, equaled
the
Japanese "surprise" attack on Pearl Harbor 7 Dec 1941.

The over-riding question: If we are at war, who is the enemy?

The group determined that the enemy is within the gates, that he has
infiltrated into the highest policy-making positions at the Federal
level,
and has absolute control, not only of the purse strings, but of the
troop
build-up and deployment of our military forces, including active,
reserve
and National Guard units.

PRELUDE TO PANIC

The 9-11 activity and horrific destruction of US property and lives
was
intentionally meant to trigger a psychological and patriotic reaction
on
the part of the US citizens, which is paving the way for "combined UN
activity"
(using the fig leaf of NATO) for striking key targets in both the
Middle
East/ South Asia and the Balkans. The goal continues to be ultimate
destruction of all national sovereignty and establishment of a global
government.

The trigger for the 9-11 activity was the imminent and unstoppable
world-wide financial collapse, which can only be prevented
(temporarily) by
a major war, perhaps to become known as WW 111. To bring it off (one
more
time), martial law will probably be imposed in the United States.

In each of the major wars of the 20th century, the financial
manipulators
(located in the City of London and New York City) had placed the US
(and
much of the Western world) in a monetary expansion mode, followed by
an
ever-tightening vice of a gigantic credit squeeze. We now have two
ongoing
and tightly controlled simultaneous events (emanating from the two
symbolic
targets of 911:

1) Alan Greenspan, Fed chairman, promising to flood the market with
up to
$200 billion in FRNs and to further lower interest rates, thus
bringing
about hyperinflation and dollar devaluation. Much of these multi
billions
in
largesse will be dumped into the coffers of Wall Street, Defense,
bankrupt
airlines, insurance companies and into the willing arms of
debt-ridden
third-world countries in the form of debt repudiation (forgiveness).
Call
it bribery, in order to get these often reluctant nations to join our
coalition of "freedom fighters" in "the war against terrorism".

2) Paul Wolfowitz, deputy Defense secretary, promised that the US
will
launch "sustained military strikes against those behind the terrorist
attacks on New York and Washington". He said that the "military
retaliation
would continue until the roots of terrorism are destroyed."

This bit of saber rattling was seconded by select NATO allies
(especially
Britain), and by our chief ally in the Middle East, the Butcher of
Beirut,
Ariel Sharon, while Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld, with the
blessings
of Pres. Bush 11, is activating thousands of national guard and
reservists,
not only to guard the vulnerable airports, but to do fly-overs of our
Nation's
capital in F16s from the North Dakota Air Guard. Other National Guard
units
are being jockeyed into potential combat "hot spots" throughout the
Middle
East/South Asia and the Balkans.

WHO IS THE ENEMY?

Following is a summary of the near-unanimous views of the assembled
military and civilian pilots concerning certain critical factors
relating
to the
WTC/Pentagon hit of 9-11:

Troubling questions arose about the alleged pilot-hijackers of the
four
aircraft, who were supposedly trained on Cessna aircraft over the
past year
at fields in Florida and Oklahoma. One General officer remarked, "I
seriously question whether these novices could have located a target
dead-on
200 miles removed from takeoff point...-- much less controlled the
flight
and mastered the intricacies of 11FR (instrument flight rules) -- and
all
accomplished in 45 minutes."

The extremely skillful maneuvering of the three aircraft at near mach
speeds, each unerringly hitting their targets, was superb. As one Air
Force
officer -- a veteran of over 100 sorties over North Vietnam --
explained,
"Those birds (commercial airliners) either had a crack fighter pilot
in the
left seat, or they were being maneuvered by remote control."

Another pilot warned that "we had better consider whether
electro-magnetic
pulse or radio frequency weapons were used from a command and control
platform hovering over the Eastern Seaboard... I'm talkin' AWACS."

Another comment: "If there was an AWACS on station over the targeted
area,
did it have a Global Hawk capability? I mean, could it convert the
commercial jets to robotic flying missiles?

A hotly debated question: Who would be in command of such an Airborne
Warning and Control System (AWACS)? Were they Chinese -- Russians --
Saudis -- Israelis -- NATO ? All of these countries possess
AWACS-type
aircraft. All (except the Saudis) have the capability to utilize
electro-magnetic pulsing (EMP) to knock out on-board flight controls
and
communications of targeted aircraft, and then, to fly them by remote
control.

One of the Air Force officers explained that we had already flown a
robot
plane the size of a Boeing 737 across the Pacific to Australia --
unmanned -- from Edwards AF13 in California to a successful landing
on an
Aussie base in South Australia. It flies along a pre-programmed
flight
path,
but is "monitored" (controlled remotely) by a pilot from an outside
station.

He explained that the London Economist (20 Sep 2001) published
comments
from
the former CEO of British Airways, Robert Ayling, who stated that an
aircraft could be commandeered from the ground or air and controlled
remotely in the event of a hijack.

COMMERCIAL JETS AS GUIDED MISSILES

An AP story, dateline Brussels - 7 Oct 01 -- "At Washington's
request, NATO
will soon deploy surveillance aircraft for anti-terrorist operations
in the
United States in response to the attacks on New York and Washington,
NATO
officials said Sunday, an unprecedented use of foreign military
forces to
defend the U.S. homeland."

The assembled group of pilots debated why we would ask for foreign
forces
to
fly AWACS over our sovereign territory when we have a fleet of 33 of
them,
of which 28 are stationed in Oklahoma. The debate also centered on
whether
such NATO surveillance aircraft were already here prior to 11
September.

Could one of them have commandeered the four airliners?

There seems to be wide discrepancies between what the Federal
government is
proclaiming -- and their media moguls reporting -- as opposed to the
calm
and reasoned and rational views of those men who fly the planes and
defend
the nation against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

This writer has been a general aviation pilot since 1946. 1 have
flown a
variety of single engine prop aircraft since, and installed an
FAA-approved
airstrip here on my farm in 1980. Two local pilots periodically
joined me
for short hops; one, a Madison County lawyer, a graduate of the Air
Force
Academy, who flew for the Air Force before coming home to practice
law.

The other, Kent Hill, who lives with his wife, Carol, on a farm close
to
mine, is an American Airlines captain assigned to the European route.
He
was
a lifelong friend of "Chic" Burlingame, They were graduates of the
Naval
Academy and flew F-4 Phantoms in Vietnam. Both left the Navy 28 years
ago
and joined American Airlines. Both planned to retire in 2002. Chic
was the
captain of AA flight 77, a Boeing 757, which departed Washington
Dulles for
Los Angeles at 8: 10 am on I I September, with 58 passengers and a
crew of
6. Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon at 9:41 am.

"We were totally trained on the old type of hijack," Capt Hill said,
"where
you treat the hijacker cordially, punch a 4-digit code into your
transponder
to alert ground control you're being hijacked, and then get him where
he
wants to go, set the plane safely on the ground and let them deal
with it
on
the ground. However, this is a totally new situation... Not one of
the
planes alerted ground control that they were being hijacked." How
come?

"The fact is, all the transponders were turned off on the doomed
flights
virtually at the same time." Look at their departure times -- two
from
Logan
(Boston), one from Newark, another from Dulles (Washington DC) -- all
between 8 am and 8:15.

"Shortly after climb-out to flight level, their transponders are
de-activated.. (they are no longer a blip on the radar screens). This
is
something that really needs to be looked into. The only reason we
turn them
off is so they don't interfere with ground systems when we land."

(Note: Transponders identify a particular aircraft in flight on the
radar
screens of FAA flight controllers located throughout the country.
Various
codes are punched into the transponder, one displaying, "I am being
hijacked.")

Although there is much talk among the various flight crews, Hill says
they
are not privy to any of the investigations into the events of I I
September.
"We're in the dark -- very much so ... They're playing it pretty
tight to
the vest."

He is convinced none of the pilots had control of their aircraft when
they
were flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The question
then
becomes, who was really in control?

"Even if I had a gun at my head, I'd never fly a plane into a
building. I'd
try to put it in anywhere -- a field or a river --and I'd be searing
the
hell out of them (the hijackers) by flying upside down first," Hill
said.

In fact, the pilot has the best weapon in his hand when threatened
with
imminent death by a hijacker, namely, the airplane.

Another airline pilot stated. "On hearing a major scuffle in the
cabin, the
pilot should have inverted the aircraft and the hijackers end up with
broken
necks."

That none of the four pilots executed such a maneuver points toward
the
fact that none of them had control of their aircraft, but had been
overridden by
an outside force, which was flying them by remote control.

> > >In alt.fan.howard-stern Angel Elf <Ange...@angelfire.com> wrote:
> > > I don't think that Dick is "lying". I think he really believes the
> > > theories that he spews forth. He must have a lot of time on his hands
> > > because of the sheer volume of stuff he puts out. Either that or
> > > there is more then one Dick Eastman.

Only believeing this is true would warrent such an expenditure of
time.
But why are you in this? Must it not be to deter people from sucking
in what is spewed forth? Must it not be because you think that unless
you put yourself in the way politically significant numbers of people
might be persuaded? And does not that imply that you either think the
arguments themselves compelling or you think that numbers of readers
are suseptable to thinking like I do if given "too much"
encouragement?

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 2, 2002, 11:01:18 AM4/2/02

eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message news:<9ecacd20.02031...@posting.google.com>...

Let's not forget Morgan, McDonough, Greenspan, Chase Manhattan,
Goldman Sachs gold link to 911

When the North Tower was destroyed by crashbombing and a bomb
exploded on the 24th floor at the same time (powerful public evidence
below)
evidence and records in the most significiant lawsuit in Wall Street
history
was destroyed with it.

Since the explosion the FBI and CIA (housed in wtc Building 7 which
was
also totally destroyed along with the two towers (although little
mentioned) no longer investigate cases like that -- no one does!!!!

First here background on the case written before 9-11-01:
---------

"Recent exposes by Reg Howe and James Turk, which can be read at
www.GATA.org, are devastating evidence that the plaintiffs have been
manipulating the gold price for the benefit of the few to the
detriment of
so many, including the poor sub-Saharan gold producing countries in
Africa,"
Murphy says.

In an essay published this week, "Gibson's Paradox Revisited:
Professor
Summers Analyzes Gold Prices," Howe notes that Lawrence Summers, the
new
president of Harvard University, co-authored with Robert B. Barsky and
then
Harvard Professor Nathaniel Ropes an article entitled "Gibson's
Paradox and
the Gold Standard" in the Journal of Political Economy (vol. 96, June
1988,
pp. 528-550). The article, which appears to draw heavily on a 1985
working
paper of the same title by the same authors, reveals Summers'
expertise
regarding gold, gold mining, and the connections among gold prices,
interest
rates, and inflation.

Howe notes in his essay: "The unusual and sharp divergence of real
long-term
interest rates from inverted gold prices that began in 1995 suggests
that
Mr. Summers found an opportunity to do some further applied research
on
these matters during his tenure at the Treasury."

Howe goes on: "Around 1995, real long-term interest rates and inverted
gold
prices began a period of sharp and increasing divergence that has
continued
to the present time. During this period, as real rates have declined
from
the 4 percent level to near 2 percent, gold prices have fallen from
$400/oz.
to around $270 rather than rising toward the $500 level as Gibson's
paradox
and the model of it constructed by Barsky and Summers indicates they
should
have."

"Professor Summers was the youngest tenured professor in Harvard's
modern
history. On Friday, October 12, 2001, in outdoor ceremonies in
Tercentenary
Theatre, he will be formally installed as its 27th president,
entrusted with

the job of leading the nation's oldest university -- where "Veritas"
is the
motto -- into the new millennium. Three days earlier, in Courtroom No.
11 of
the new U.S. Courthouse on Boston Harbor, the search for the truth
about his
interim service in the highest positions at the U.S. Treasury will
resume."

The defendants in the GATA/Howe lawsuit are: the Bank for
International
Settlements; Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Board of Governors of the
U.S.
Federal Reserve System and a director of the BIS; William J.
McDonough,
president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and a director of
the BIS;
five major bullion banks, J.P. Morgan & Co., Chase Manhattan Corp.,
Citigroup Inc., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., and Deutsche Bank; and
Lawrence H.
Summers, former secretary of the treasury, who by law exercised
control over
the U.S.Exchange Stabilization Fund, subject only to approval by the
president.

----
Item #2:
Seymore Hersh has presented us with a clear picture of ruthless and
bold
super rogues, bred of anarcho-capitalist moral laissez-faire, men who
both
stand to make billions by framing the Taliban, but who also, at the
same
time, as desperate as cornered rats as they face a New York grand
jury
over the illegal swaps, the bribes and the other crimes Hersh has
documented.
The suspects include James W. Giffen, the man who accuaratley boasts
that
everyone and everything must go through to get to the Pesident of
Kazakhstan
(Nazarbayev). In play, also, are transnational oil firms wanting a
pipeline
for
Kazakh oil through Afganistan, an undertaking that had to be in
partnership
with Giffen to even be discussed with the Afgan government. And there
is
a New York grand jury that likely will bring serious criminal charges
and
civil liability exposure to not one, but several major oil companies
and
investment bankers -- a case that would undermine all of
international
globalization as these crimes were made public.

But what about September 11?

We also find in Hersh's article grand jury hearings under way that
require
evidence of the criminal swap transactions, evidence stored in several
computers in the World Trade Center where certainly some of the
swaptions
and derivatives trades were crafted and processed, as well as traders
--
potential incriminating witnesses -- who were involved in those deals,
who work at the World Trade Center.
(It is a simple matter to get the names of all the firms referred to
in this
article and see which had offices in the WTC, and which people who
might
have testified before that grand jury worked there.)

The Taliban, despite the propaganda-war-machine portrayals are a
fiercly independent people (like the Montana militias, only ten
times that) -- but are a desperate criminal seeking to retain his
vast ill-gotten wealth, his great despotic power and to stay out
of jail and disgrace (both disgrace before society, and disgrace
before admiring criminals impressed with his boldness and flair)
as James W. Giffen, certainly appears from Hersh's account.

I am not claiming that Hersh has enough here to convict Giffen.
I am saying that this information about him and about all of the
circumstances and players certainly kicks Osama aside as
prime suspect number one. (And note that the investment bankers
and the Russian and Kazakh mafias are also interested in the
continuance of the Afgan opium that the American-backed
Northern druglords (called "anti-terrorists" in our newspapers
and television) provide the Chinese triads and, presumably,
the various mafias of the former Soviet Union.

Certainly what Seymore Hersh has provided lends more than "the shadow
of
doubt" needed to reopen the 9-11 investigation books that have been
closed
with no compelling evidence whatsoever, in an obvious frame-up
kangaroo
public-opinion court, on Osama bin Ladin, his organization, and even
the
Taliban WHICH HAS NO MORE OR LESS CONNECTION TO BIN LADIN
than the Repbulicans have to the John Birch Society or Democrats to
the
American Way. Everything is based on bin Ladin's past record and
status as "terror suspect No. 1 (a status that also makes Osama
frame-up target No. 1 too, we should realize).

At any rate, here is more from the New Yorker article:

Excerpts from the last two pages (64-65) of Hershe's 7-9-01 story on
Giffen
and the crimes of Mobil, the Kazakhstan's all-mafia government,
pipelines
through
Afganistan and motives for super-terror in people demonstrably
physically
and mentally able able to follow through:

"...A few months later, Mobil went to federal court in northern
Virginia to
compel William's testimony. The internal documents reflected the
growing
anxiety at headquarters about just what Williams -- identified in the
papers
as "JBW" -- would say. The fear was that he would try to help Wronat
get
compensation for his lost business. Williams "can't help Eronat win
it
while at the same time screwing Mobil," a memorandum noted. "He can't
say
my buddy wasn't involved at all" --in the illegal swap--"because his
buddy
has already admitted involvement. If Williams tries to sneak in that
Mobil
was involved, he contradicts himself because he's already sworn that
Mobil
wasn't. In so contradicting himself, he destroys his credibility."

...By early summer, documents show, a solution had been proposed --
Mobil
would offer Eronat 2.4 million. Eronat would not pursue his complaints
against Mobila nd would support the settlement with Tabbah. If the
company
decided to act on the proposal to pay Eronat something, a Mobil
document
reasoned, that paymenbt should be delayed, so that there could be no
suggestion that it was being made "to avoid troubling testimony." It
is
unclear whether Mobil actually paid Eronat any money.

There was one further step. A few months before the merger, Mobil
notified
Patton Boggs, which had been involved in at least two other sensitive
inquiries for the company in the late nineteen-ninties, that its work
on the
matter was done. A senior Patton Boggs lawyer later complained to a
colleague in Washington that Mobil's top management had "deep-sixed"
the
investigation into its dealings with Kazakhstan.

WIlliam's view today of his former employer is not known. He and
Mobil
agreed, in negotiations over his retirement, that neither would
publically
disparage the other.

In 1999, Swiss banking officials discovered that about eighty-five
million
dollars that was destined for a Kazakhstan government account had been
shifted to what to what seemed to be a personal account belonging to
President Nazarbayev. SOme of the money had been transferred there
through
accounts linked to James Giffen. The evidence was passed on to the
Department of Justice -- Giffen was, after all, an American citizen --
and
the U.S. investigation got under way.

There were published reports last summer that payments of more than
sixty
million dollars from three American oil companies -- Mobil, Amoco, and
Phillips -- operating directly through foreign subsidiaries, had
allegedly
been made to Swiss bank accounts linked to Giffen. SOme thirty
million
dollars of that money, Swiss officials say, was subsequently shifted
by
Giffen into acconts controlled by Nazarbayev; his oil minister,
Balgymbayev; and the opposition leader, Kazhegeldin. Kazhegeldin
publically admitted that he had received six million dollars via the
bank
transfers, but insisted through his attorney that he had returned the
money.
Later, it became known that a second federal investigation, focussing
on the
swap, had begun in Washington.

Giffen's attorney told the Wall Street Journal last year that his
client
"has served as an official of the Republic of Kazakhstan since 1992,
and has
always acted lawfully and at the direction of that nation's
leadership."
ANy funds that Giffen disbursed, he added, were used in developing
Kazakh
natural resources, promoting democracy, and building public works.

Giffen and Eronat, through a lawyer, Thomas Yannucci, refused to be
interviewed for this article. In statements relayed by Yannucci, both
men
were evasive. Documents made available for this article demonstrate
that
Giffen and Eronat were intimately involved in the proposed oil swap
between
Iran and Kazakhstan. Giffen's statement to The NEw Yorker said that,
as
"Counselor to the President of Kazakhstan," he, "obviously was aware
that
the swap transaction was under negotiation." Nevertheless, he said,
at no
time did he or any of the companies with which he was associated
"violate
any law of the United States, including the sanctions regulations."
Eronat
answered a list of specific questions about his role with a general
assault
on Tabbah's credibility. This response was accompanied by a
three-page
letter from Peter Felter, the London lawyer who was the attorney for
several
of the parties in the Iran-Kazakhstan swap talks, including API.
Felter,
too, denounced Tabbah as a fraud and a thief, and "an unreliable and
discredited witness," and added, "As far as we are concerned, there is
no
comparison between the credibility, standing and veracity of Mr.
Tabbah as
compared with Mobil." William's responses to questions from the New
Yorker,
as conveyed by his attorney, David Schertler, denigrate Tabbah as
well.

Richard Lilley, Tabbah's soliciter, responded to the attacks on his
client by describing him as "keen to cooperate with the U.S>
government, not
out of vengence but because he wants the matter to be investigated so
that
the truth about this extraordinary matter can be told." Lilley has
been
retained by the justice Department in a continuing effort to persuade
the
British court to permit Tabbah to testify before an American grand
jury.
The government's sanctions case may yet hinge on his testimony.

Today, President Nazarbayev is said by State Department officials
to be
anxious about the inquiries, which he views as politically motivated.
"He
brings up the investigation with everybody," a former American
Ambassador to
Kazakhstan said. Last summer, the Kazakh parliament passed a law
granting
Nazarbayev lifetime immunity from any legal liability stemming from
his
actions in office, with the exception of high treason. More recently,
the
President angered his critics by pushing through passage of a bill
that gave
all Kazakh citizens the right to bring money into the country with no
questions asked -- and no tax assessed. Opposition leaders --
delcaring
that the legislation amounted to little more than the legalization of
money
laundering -- suggested that the biggest benefactors would be
Nazarbayev
and his intimates.

Nazarbayev has been cracking down on the press and on opposition
political parties. During a visit to Almaty last winter, I met with
dissident editors, who told of newspapers and radio stations being
closed.
One prominent journalist was convicted of insulting the President in
print.
AN AMerican lawyer who has practiced in the booming oil economy of
Kazakhstan for the past five years explained that corruption had
spread
throughout the society: "Every act is something you have to pay for,
and
every job is bought and sold." HE provided some going prices -- three
thousand dollars to become a policeman and the same amount to join the
state customs service. It would cost hundreds of thousands to become
a
supreme-court justice.

In a speech at the Hague at the end of May, John Ashcroft, the U.S>
Attorney General, said, "We must come to a recognition, personally and
culturally, that corruption is not just a violation of the law, not
just an
economic disadvantage, and not merely a political problem, but that it
is
morally wrong." It should be "no longer seen as an accepted cost of
doing
business," he went on. "It is now widely recognized that the
consequences
of corruption can be devastating to the poor, devastating to the
economies,
devastating to the legitimacy and stability of government and
deestating to
the moral fabrick of society."

Ashcroft's concerns apparently are not shared by all of the
international
oil community. It may never be known why Mobil's leadership exercised
so
little oversight on the executives who delt with Russian and
Kazakhstan, and
whose activities posed such enormous legal and financial risks.
Indeed the
actions alleged in connection with the Tabbah case "bet the company,"
in the
words of one person close to the Mobil investigation, "with maximum
criminal
and civil exposure." This person has concluded that people in the
industry
believed that the importance of oil in the national and world economy
would
insulate them from any complaints of wrongdoing. He summed up the
oilmen's
attitude this way: "what's man afraid of? The cold and the dark. We
make
it warm and we make it light."

(end excerpt)

Item #2:

(end of excerpt)

===============

T.E. writes:

I think that is what most of us would do UNLESS we knew beforehand
and were "mentally prepared", as I think Bush was and he exhibited by
his demeanor and actions. Then, within 55 minutes of the second hit,
it was ANNOUNCED that USAma bin Laden was the culprit BEFORE assessing
the damage and asking for protection of citizens. HowdidtheyknowTHAT?
Couple THAT with the orders of the USAF to "stand down" on the
routine, the already in place normal protective response to such an
action, just TWO WEEKS BEFORE the attack. Add to that the Air Traffic
Controllers not being officially interviewed, names not released and
actually REPLACED with NORAD people; the tapes of the Air Traffic
Radar being DESTROYED or MISSING; the Cheney interview on TV where
Cheney gave away the story that "the President would have to make a
decision" when this is not true, mechanisms were in place as proven by
the Payne Steward Airplane crash months before; add the fact that
Cheney and then Bush PERSONALLY asked that Congress LIMIT the
"investigation" (funny how fast ENRON was quickly investigated and yet
NO INVESTIGATION has taken place on the most important event in
America since Pearl Harbor); Add to THAT the PREPLANNED INVASION OF
AFGANISTAN for the oil right- away; the
Military-Industrial-Political-CARLYLE GROUP money makers, the fast
implementation of the "Patriot Act", all 217 pages of it, not even
read by the Congress and passed in the night, QUICKLY, without
debate...DO YOU NEED MORE? There is a lot more if you study the
facts. How about the Israeli's being notified by email two hours
before the WTC Tower attack? How about only ONE Israeli being killed?
How about the Israeli Spy cell (20 or so) arrested and then sent back
to Israel without any information being made available? How about the
finding that several of the supposed high-jackers are alive? What
about the Pentagon questions? What about the two armed Israeli agents
in the State House arrested and released in Mexico?
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 ....how MUCH do you need?

You won't find the gun smoking. But what you will find are a series
of mathematically impossible occurrences which lead to the conclusion
that at the least, SOMETHING IS AMISS. And what is the END RESULT
thus far? WHO BENEFITS? I will let YOU answer that one for yourself.

Thank you for your consideration of the above.

T.E.

=========^======================

New US paper aims at Afghan war truth
Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Saturday March 30, 2002
The Guardian <http://www.guardian.co.uk>

A newspaper aimed at providing news of the war in Afghanistan is to be
launched this month. Its editors argue that the mainstream media in
the US
are not providing a full picture of the war and its effects.

War Times, produced in San Francisco, will make its first bi-weekly
appearance on April 12. It will be published in English and Spanish
and will
be distributed throughout the US.

Its editors say it is a response to a demand for more information
about what
is happening in Afghanistan and the possibility of conflict elsewhere.
The venture is supported by a number of academics, including Noam
Chomsky,
labour organisations and anti-war groups.>
Its managing editor, Bob Wing, said the response to the idea had been
extraordinary. "We originally planned to print only 7,500 copies of
the
pilot," he said, "but the demand was so great that we printed and
distributed 100,000."

He said the aim was to bring more information about the war into the
public
debate and "to report hidden truths, to put a human face on events,
and
explore the real interests behind the 'permanent war'."

The pilot issue carried an interview with the actor Danny Glover, who
said:
"Bombing Afghanistan and creating the idea that the US is the judge,
the
jury and the executioner is the wrong way to respond."

"It's hard because of the anger, the pain and the humiliation we feel
about
September 11. But we have to understand that other people have faced
the
same kind of pain, the same kind of anger.

"Their lives have been transformed by acts of terrorism and violence,
often
supported or perpetrated by the US."
=======

Item:

On page B1 of the Sunday New York Times, Philip Shenon and David
Johnston
reveal that the Bush administration is "discussing proposals that
would lead
to the most fundamental reorganization of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation in its history, shifting its focus to counterterrorism
[that
is, to fighting anti-globalization movements --DE] and away from crime
fighting, senior officials said. [Attorney General Ashcroft? Director
Robert
Mueller III?]

"Under the new thinking, they said, the agency would give up
responsibility
for some of the duties on which it built its legenday "G-man"
reputation,
like bank robbery [this includes white collar crime, like the
gold-price
fixing investigation the FBI was conducting on its floors of the one
of the
Word Trade Center tower when the tower and all of the evidence and
documentation was destroyed -- the accusation was the Alan Greenspan
and
houses like Goldman Sachs and Morgan & Co. were essentailly selling
the gold
owned by the Federal Reserve --and part of the strength of the U.S.
dollar's
reputation and strength,,to assorted insider billionaires at
deliberately
suppressed prices --DE].]

"As counterterrorism becomes the No. 1 priority of the F.B.I., it has
become
obvious that other types of investigation will have to be
de-emphasized at
the bureau or turned over to other agencies," said a senior
administation
official, one of several interviewed in recent days who have been
involved
in the discussions.

" Some officials say the restructuring has already begun, even before
any
formal palns have been proposed, propelled by the terror attacks of
September. 11, when thousands of bureau agents across the country were
ordered to put aside other investigations to focus exclusively on
counterterrorism."

Also in the article:

"...Attorney General Ashcroft and the bureau's director, Robert S.
Mueller
III, have agreed that the emphasis on counterterrorism will be
permanent and
that other major changers are inevitable. ..."

""...Mr. Mueller, as the bureau's new director. Mr. Mueller had
earned a
fearsome reputation from previous jobs, for shaking up government
sagncies,
notably the United States attorney's office in San Francisco, where he
forced out most of the senior managment." [This during the Clinton
years! -- and this is exactly what CLinton's appointee, Louis J.
Freeh,
did when he took the job -- throwing out the top drug fighters from
a list he brought with him before he took office - these
non-political
professionals were all demoted and removed within two days -- giving
druglords a very easy time with no seasoned top men running the
show--DE].

Why is the gutting of the FBI permanently in response to the WTC
terror
frame-up important? Let's spell it out.
--------
Because part of the motive for the terror-frame-up was to stop two
criminal
investigations aimed at some of the most powerful figures of the
ruling
Establishment.

For example consider the "gold fixing case" that was being
investigated by
the FBI at the WTC on September 11 (but not on September 12).

=======
"The defendants in the GATA/Howe lawsuit are: the Bank for
International
Settlements; Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Board of Governors of the
U.S.
Federal Reserve System and a director of the BIS; William J.
McDonough,
president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and a director of
the BIS;
five major bullion banks, J.P. Morgan & Co., Chase Manhattan Corp.,
Citigroup Inc., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., and Deutsche Bank; and
Lawrence H.
Summers, former secretary of the treasury, who by law exercised
control over
the U.S.Exchange Stabilization Fund, subject only to approval by the
president."

DALLAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 13, 2001

According to a Business Wire release just received, Judge Reginald
Lindsay
of U.S. District Court in Boston has scheduled for 3:30 p.m. Tuesday,
October 9, 2001, a hearing on the defendants' motion to dismiss the
lawsuit
brought by a consultant for the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee,
Reginald
H. Howe, against the Bank for International Settlements, the U.S.
Federal
Reserve and Treasury Department, and several bullion banks.

The lawsuit alleges collusion by the U.S. government, the BIS, and the
bullion banks to suppress the price of gold.

The underlying issue at the hearing Oct. 9, according to Howe, will be
whether the U.S. Constitution and federal law may be enforced in a
federal
court action challenging the authority of former Treasury Secretary
Lawrence
Summers and other American officials, working in part through the Bank
for
International Settlements, to conduct surreptitious gold price-fixing
operations.

"Wonderful news!" says GATA Chairman Bill Murphy, speaking from GATA's
headquarters in Dallas.

CONTACT: Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee
Bill Murphy, 214/522-3411
Fax: 214/522-4432
LePa...@LeMetropoleCafe.com

=============

Let's refresh on the people's reconstruction of the Great Crashbombing
Frame-Up:
(See below, for my own statement of this conclusion being reached
independently by thousands each day.)

Mossad and the CIA were dealing Afgan-opium-derived
heroin or at least were devoting effort to protect the
supply sources of the multi-trillion-dollar money-laundered
deposits backing the global investments of American
and Britsih merchant banks. The Afgan Northern Alliance
druglords grow 80 to 90 percent of the worlds opium, the
prime ingredient of heroin, which is then moved over the small
China-Afgan boarder for processing and distribution by the
giant People's Liberation Army - Triad transnational corporation-
drug cartel-and military instrument. Against this giant network
the religious Taliban had been erradicating Afgan opium production,
supressing production and profits for druglords, bankers and
globalization capitalists alike.

Thus this became the initial motivation of a renegade group of CIA
and/or Mossad having an interest in defeating Taliban.
(Nothing absurd so far, right?)

Next, the Russian and Kazakh mafias have ties with U.S. executive
James Giffen in Kazakhstan -- a man under investigation by
a New York grand jury in the months before September 11
for illegal involvement in an oil swaps between Kazakhstan
and sanctioned Iran (read the Aug. 9 New Yorker Magazine
for a full account of this by Seymore Hershe -- I have already
presented long excerpts of this in past posts) -- and all of the
evidence for this crime was being kept on the 20th through
25th floor of one of the WTC towers where the FBI had its
New York Offices. And James Giffen is the man anyone has
to go through to get any oil agreement with Kazakhstan --
including any pipelines built that would traverse Afganistan.
(There is $6 trillion dollars worth of oil and gas in Central Asia.)
Giffen certainly understood -- if he did not originate the idea --
that if he couldcan get operatives (even "captured" vengeful Islamic
activists whose rage could be shaped and directed to use of terror)
to destroy the FBI offices in the WTC building and the documentation
evidence it contained, then he would be escape grand jury indictment
-- and, as an powerful added benefit, the (framed) Taliban would get
replaced with a regime in Afganistan that would permit a pipeline to
be
built -- preferably a Northern Alliance druglord government that would
harmonize with Giffen's own unethical (murderous) entrepreneural
style.
(See the New Yorker artlical for details of Giffen's history.)

(So far this super-crime scheme involves only a small group of
people--
Russian Mafia and perhaps a Giffen - renegade CIA or a Giffen
"dark-side" Mossad link. But other, even more powerful players
may have had involvement -- certainly they stood to gain
tremendously if the crashbomb frame-up were successfully accomplished.
(Prior to September 11 charges had been brought against Federal
Reserve
Chairman Alan Greenspan, Goldman Sachs, Morgan & Co. and other
powerful American financial figures and instiutions had charges
brought
against them -- reportedly a very well-documented case --over the
fixing
of gold prices -- with evidence for that case too stored by the FBI
on the FBI floors of the WTC! These parties would not only profit
heavily from the "carrot" of both oil and drug monies circulating
through
thier great
financial instiutions, but they also would gain from avoding the
"stick"
of one of the most threatening lawsuits ever to confront the U.S.
financial
establishment (realize what a guilty verdict in this case would mean
to
these leading financial families and to the Establishment in general!)
--
these parties would welcome predictable and certainly substantial
benefits from the the destruction of the evidence in the WTC
and of some of the witnesses and researchers on the case as well.)

Notice that so far we have powerful men with powerful incentives
who characteristically operate in secret and under the protection
of wealth, status and power -- both the carrot ($2 trillion in annual
drug revenues funneled through the banking system -- which has
funded much of the proceeds to fund the development of the
Princeling-Triad dictatorship in China, btw, -- (The communist
government
has been in the opium business since the 1930's -- Mao pioneered the
model later followed by Peru's Shining Path and Colombia's Maoist
F.A.R.C. narco-terrorists. And Zhou Enlai devised the plan in the
1950's
of weakening American society through a drug invasion.)

"China white" heroin distributed by the People's Liberation Army,
made from Afgan opium links all banker and oilman to the corrupt
and renegade the secret state agencies, CIA, FBI, and Mossad
-- renegade agents of either agency may have seen this opportunity
for mutual gain and found the way -- having profiles of each of the
players -- to propose the crashbombing frame-up as the best "solution"
to each of players most troublesome problems, while making enormous
profits besides.

Note that the Bush's are tied to both the CIA and oil and, through
Mena Arkansas drug smuggling and through the Iran-Contra
drugs and arms deals etc. (drugworld investigator Daniel Hopsicker,
as well as Noam Chomsky and many others have exposed this
thoroughly -- at least in the broad strokes necessary to support
this reconstruction of the crime.)
(THe facts of the drug connections are known to everyone from
the Russians, to the John Birchers, to Wired Magazine, Harpers,
New Yorker, the Village Voice, the Nation, and Rolling Stone
Magazine, all having explored the drug - Establishment connections
in great detail.)

Which brings us to Ariel Sharon. His hard-head policy of
retaliation regardless of collateral damage and his provocation
at the mosque cost him dearly in world opinion. In fact the
Bush administration was very close to making initiating a major
policy shift -- obviously known to Sharon from the greatest
intelligence
organization in the world -- Bush was planning the the
recognition/sponsorhip of a seperate Palestinian state. (Also
war crime charges had been brought against Sharon in international
court, further putting his hard-line policy against the Palestinians
in unfavorable light.

Mindful of Ariel Sharon's self-made hard spot, it is entirely
possible that the same CIA or Mossad mastermind that thought of
the crashbombing frame-up plan in the first place decided to take
the risk of telling Sharon about the plan, offering it as a solution
to the trapped old "freedom fighter's" problems as well. If the
U.S. could be made to think that the hated Osama bin Laden --
that Islamic fundametnalism itself -- is responsible for destroying
twin towers of the WTC and the American government itself,
then, Sharon would certainly grasp, American opinion woudl
radically swing to an extremely hard line against all Moslem
and Arab entities not securely under their thumb, and most
particularly, from Sharon's viewpoint, against Palestinians.

No profile of Sharon gives any indication that he would not
close on such a deal, such a serving of his higher good, his
prime directive.

And that is all that was needed to carry off this operation.

The getting and conditioning/deceiving of hijackers is an easy affair.
Mossad has infiltrated bin Ladin's forces in Central Asia and the
Mideast
-- but it is a radically decentralized organization (as it must be to
remain viable)
and so it was an easy matter for this "dark-side" Mossad, with
Sharon's
clandestine approval, to trick some very angry and vengeful Arabs into
thinking they were doing bin Ladens or some other anti-Zionist or
anti-
Globalization radicals to agree to hijack the four planes. Millions in
the
world hated the America and the globalization that the World Trade
Center
represents. These recruited hijackers need not have been Arabs --
there
are Croats, Serbs, Latin Americans, and Iranians and any number
of other victim-pool people who could have volunteered to conduct
the hijacking -- possibly without fully understanding the end result
of
the mission -- they need not have "signed on" for a suicide bombing.
(Many aviation experts on the net are describing a system built
into commercial airliners for taking over control of flight from the
ground, a system developed to combat terrorism. It is possible
that the course of the plane's flight was taken over by this system
installed to thwart hijackers (detailed in several reports
on the web.) But if the crashes were not effected in this way,
psychological-control methods, wholly sufficient for the job, were
also available. The technology of behavoir control is further
advanced than the popular press has made people aware.
Skilled psy op agents can get subjects angry enough and
convinced enough of the justice and good effects of "acts'
represented as serving their 'cause" to be willing to undertake
even suicidal missions. (Activist Alan Yu has researched this
technology as have other researchers from a broad spectrum
of political orientation.)

And this is all that is needed to conduct the terror act.

But then what?

When the crashes take place -- word merely has to be
put out by those involved (the CIA, Mossad, Sharon
and those complicit in the Bush Administration,
(based on his behavior, my money is on Paul Wolfowitz)
to push the theme that bin Ladin was responsible and that
this aggressive war to overthrow the Taliban is the only
immediate appropriate reaction -- since, the spin goes,
the Afgans are responsible for "harboring" bin Laden and
that "harboring is exactly the same as terrorism" and that
for that reason the entire Afgan government must be
terminated (must be "ended as a state" to use Wolfowitz's
revealing phrasing of September 12.)

The frame-up has all sorts of collateral benefits for the
perpetrators. Now the perpetrators can tell the unsuspecting
that bin Ladin's guilt has been established beyond doubt --
that for the sake of the security and safety of Israel and
the United States that it is necessary that the impression of
an "open and shut case" must be spun. (The news media
is exhorted to be patriotic and exemplary "wartime correspondents"
and sets about selling the blaming of bin Ladin and advocating
war and overthrow in Afganistan -- because they have been
deceitfully led to believe they really know who bombed the
buildings; and among the elite of the news publishers,
they "know" it is in the best interests of Israel and Wall Street
that this be the response, that this be the spin.

And Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair each benefit enormously, politically.

And trillions of dollars are enough to subdue and supress
criticism of the investigation -- after all, who would know better
than
the CIA and Mossad exactly who is responsible? (The fact has
been reported -- in a different context, of course -- that the U.S.
intelligence receives all of its ground intelligence from Central Asia
through Mossad's network of infiltrator spies -- in other words,
whatever "proofs" the U.S. has (and has shown Tony Blair and NATO)
has come exclusively through Sharon via Mossad. The "evidence"
so-called, thus, is no counterweight to this reconstruction of the
crime.
The "evidence" comes exclusively from the prime "frame-up" suspect.

Has Mossad done this kind of thing before? Remember
the USS Liberty, an American ship with flag flying,
deliberatly attacked and sunk (in multiple attack waves)
with efforts to kill every saior abord -- either to destroy
information that the ship may have intercepted or to
frame Arab states to gain the support of American
public opinion. (There are other cases involving the
blowing up of a disco dance nightclub, again to frame
targeted enemies -- a case actually brought to light
by the non-renegade "good side" Mossad.

The coverup apparently has unlimited resources. Two
Mossad men caught red handed days after the WTC
crashbombings, were carryhing explosive charges and
detonation controls in the government chambers of the
Mexican legislature? Apparently big bribes have been,
because these men have been set free.

One surmises that appeals are made to the bodey man
of a "destabalizing international crisis" is the truth were
to get out. This is ancient cloak of deviant ruling elites.

How many readers -- even if they strongly suspect that
this reconstruction fits the facts -- would not deny the
conclusion anyway because of fear of what this fact would
do to Israel's reputation and thus to her security and survival?

Yet this view may be wrong. If Israeli's on the "good side"
were to arrest Sharon and chase down the renegades of
the Mossad "dark side" and bring them to justice --
tensions in the Mideast would dissolve, and good-faith
restored -- good faith that will never return to the world
as long as the greatest terror frame-up in history is not
corrected by justice and the truth.

Also, if this reconstruction is valid, then that certainly
raises the liklihood that Ariel Sharon was also the
man who gave the order for the murder of Yhitzak Rabin.
Israel's greatest peacmaker (if that title does not go to
Began for his treaty with Sadat.)

Conviction of Sharon would mean that the warmongering
"take-no-prisoners" school of Zionism would at last be
discredited and that the humanitarian way of Rabin
could again be given another chance -- with
the Palestinians gaining restored faith in Israel to be
fair and just after seeing Sharon removed and brought
to justice.

I know that at this point you are poised to throw the
usual tomatoes and call me a "loon" and a "nazi" -- but
I know that those who call me those names are themselves
fearful that this analysis may be right.. (ANd I forgive
you in advance for having to through those tomatoes
out of loyalty and not knowing what else to do in your
uncertainty.)

It is a rotten world all around -- but my advice is
to seek the truth wherever it leads and then to enforce
justice -- justice against the real authors of the Sept 11 terror,
whoever they may be -- to go after Sharon just as strenuously
as you were recently ready to hunt down bin Laden.

And of course, the United States has a similar house cleaning
of its topmost shelves of power and influence -- a job that we
have been putting off since the 1870's. (How the entire world will
benefit from that job!)

(And I should make this clearer: The media are not silent because
they are conmplicit in the terror -- they are silent because they
are "yes men" who "know where their bread is buttered" and they
are not about to jump up and say "Sharon did it" until they see
others in their postions doing so. This is consitent with today's
"Dilbert" world of Establishment-monopolized organizations.
Only an earth shaking event, like the exposing of the Establishment's
role in the WTC terror, will shake down this system.) .......
====================

http://www.narconews.com/petras1.html

"Former private banker Antonio Geraldi, in testimony before the Senate
Subcommittee projects significant growth in U.S. bank laundering. "The
forecasters also predict the amounts laundered in the trillions of
dollars and growing disproportionately to legitimate funds." The $500
billion of criminal and dirty money flowing into and through the major
U.S. banks far exceeds the net revenues of all the IT companies in the
U.S., not to speak of their profits. These yearly inflows surpass all
the net transfers by the major U.S. oil producers, military industries
and airplane manufacturers."

"First thing to note about the money laundering business, whether
criminal or corrupt, is that it is carried out by the most important
banks in the USA. Secondly, the practices of bank officials involved
in money laundering have the backing and encouragement of the highest
levels of the banking institutions - these are not isolated cases by
loose cannons."
=============
One more bit that needs to be at your fingertips:

On August 14, 2000 this short article by Martin Mann appeared in the
Spotlight ( the "Village Voice" of the right):
----------
>Gov. George W. Bush and Richard Cheny, the Republican presidential
and vice
presidential candidates, known in Washington as the "oil ticket" for
their
intimate connections to the petroleum industry, may face worse
corruption
scandals in coming months than the lewd, mendacious and cash-hungry
Clinton
administration ever did. The Spotlight has learned from European and
U.S.
investigative sources.

As Cheney, a millionaire petroleum executive who served as defense
secretary in the administration of George Bus, the candidate's father,
rose
to accept the vice-presidential nomination from the cheering
Republican
convention in Philadelphia, Swiss prosecutors quietly moved to
impound over
$130 million in allegedly laundered funds depositied in Swiss banks.

According to preliminary findings of the Swiss inquiry, the frozen
funds
represent under-the-table payoffs slipped to the top government
officials of
Kazakhstan by giant U.S. petroleurm companies seeking favored access
to that
oil-rich country, a former Soviet province that attained independence
after
the collapse of communism.

Adised by Swiss authorities that the suspect acounts -- more than
$85
million found hidden in private numbered accounts controlled by Kazakh
President Nursultan A. Nazarbayev in a single Geneva bank, Banque
Pictet --
may violate the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, federal
authorities in
New York launched an investigation of
their own.

The U.S. probe quickly focused on James H. Giffen, head of the
Mercator
Corporation, known as an influential American financial advisor to
Nazarbayev.

Last month, the Justice Department sent Swiss chief prosecutor
Daniel
Devaud a confidential memorandum naming Giffen and his
public-relations
company as targets of a formal federal criminal investigation.

According to this memorandum, the Giffen probe was triggered by the
findings of FBI agents in New York indicating that the millions
impounded at
Banque Pictet and other Swiss money-centers represented illegal
payoffs to
Kazakh officials by three major U.S. oil companies: Exxon Mobil, BP
Amoco,
and Phillips Petroleum.

Giffen's alleged role was that of the go-between who secretly
transferred
these huge bribes from the U.S. oil corporations along circuitous
international money-laundering routes to Kazakhstan's president and
his top
aides.

Spokespersons for Exxon Mobil, BP Amoco and Phillips Petreleum have
denied any wrongdoing. Mark J. MacDougal, a Washington lawyer for
Giffen
also denied the charges.

But the Swiss-American inquiry is continuing. If it turns up solid
evidence of bribery by U.S. oil interests -- sources close to the case
call
it "the most likely outcome" -- the next time-bomb of a question will
be:
How many other petroleum potentates are soiled by this sordid affair?

Until he was offered -- and accepted -- the Republican
vice-presidential
nomination this month, Cheny served as president of the Halliburton
Corporation, the world's largest oil-service, exploration and
engineering
outfit.

A number of Halliburton's field operations have been linked to
Exxon
Mobil's and BP Amoco's overseas ventures in recent years.
Investigators are
poised to explore whether these links involved any operations in
corruption-riddled Kazakhstan.

Washington is buzzing with excited rumors that some major Bush
campaign
contributors -- long time coronies of the presidential candidate --
will
face not just stinging embarrassemtn but criminal indictment when
these
cases hit the headlines, especially if the Republicans fail to gain
the
White House this fall. (end of Martin Mann's article of August 14,
2000)

----end of Martin Mann quotation

I conclude that the F.B.I is being permanently defanged by the
money-laundering,
currency-manipulation drug revenue-enjoying criminal elite who moved
to take
down
last remaining independent political and economic power in the way of
their
world
domination when they arranged for the great crashbombing frame-up.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsible toevery other man.
======

I recommend these 11 September frame-up criminal investigation sites:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm
http://www.public-action.com Carol A. Valentine
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert

www.bighula.com/copvcia/ (mirror of above)

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk
www.narconews.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/

http://www.infowars.com/resources.html

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/
www.truthout.com
http://www.humanunderground.com
---

Video camera evidence that a small jet, not a Beoing 757,
hit the Pentagon on September 11.

Key visual Pentagon evidence:
http://www.thepowerhour.com/pentgallery/FrameSet.htm

Scroll down to the 47th picture which is labeled pentani.ipg
and to the 51st picture labeled pentvid1

"The French Site:"

Tom Mosher

unread,

Apr 2, 2002, 9:08:41 PM4/2/02

Dickhead Eastman:

Would you care to say these things about Flight 77 to my dear friend who
lost three friends on flight 77?

Tom Mosher

Haiba King

unread,

Apr 2, 2002, 10:30:35 PM4/2/02

Yeah, Dick. Are you ever going to answer the question of whether or not
you'll do this? Once again, I want you to write to "torrey...@hotmail.com"
and tell him his daughter didn't die on flight 77.
But we all know you wont do this because you can't stick behind what
you claim you believe in. And after reading your previous post I can't
even imagine how embarrassed your daughters must be of you.
They're probably so ashamed of you that they wish they were on flight
77 - because we all know it existed.

Much Love,
Haiba

Angel Elf

unread,

Apr 2, 2002, 10:32:05 PM4/2/02

eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message news:<9ecacd20.02040...@posting.google.com>...

> Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02040...@posting.google.com>...
> > After asking him what happened to Flight 77 if it didn't crash
> > into the Pentagon I got this reply in which he claims the passengers
> > were somehow kidnapped and sent to some top secret location.
> > Even he says that it is, "Far Fetched".
>
> I also suggested the Atlantic Trench. I did not say "top secret
> location" -- it was an airliner, lots of airliners were in the sky
> that morning and they all had to land -- Flight 77 would have been
> lost among the crowd -- all the perpetrators would have to do is
> control one hanger for a few hours -- easy in a national airport
> emergency. There is also the thrid theory that cannot yet be rejected
> that there was not Flight 77 -- although the deception involved with
> this one seems overwhemling even for the trillions in assets of
> deviant fiance capitalism.
>

Yes, you did mention the "Atlantic Trench" but I just didn't know
what it was and had no time to do any research so I just let it go.
No, you did not say "top secret location" that was an assumption on
my part. So you are saying that flight 77 landed at some airport
and was lost in the crowd? I guess that because the transponder
was shut off and they were being flown by remote control someone
on the ground or in the aircraft gave a false ID for the plane to
the air traffic controllers, and they allowed the plane to land,
and taxi to a hanger. In this hanger all the passengers were then
taken to another location to be held for some unknown reason.
I guess that the plane was not being tracked by radar?
If you want to prove this remote control theory of yours why not
do a little research on the aircraft that was flight 77? Find out
when all this technology was installed. How many hours this plane
flew between the installation and the attack and where is it now?
All you have to do is trace backwards from the last takeoff, all
the stops the plane made and then where and when the maintenance was
done.

> Yet we know for certain that the Pentagon was taken out by a
> remote-controlled F-16 that fired a missile ahead to the point of its
> own collision.

No, we don't know that for certain. Not one eye witness saw a jet
fighter or missile. The only "proof" you have is supposition and
a blurry photo.

> So, if you know that the biggest elephant of the circus is not in your
> living room it must be somewhere else, right? The government's own
> video camera shows that F-16, not a 757, attack the Pentagon -- then
> the plane must be elsewhere if there was a plane. Also right? SO if
> a newsgroup discussant does not agree with my current working
> hypotheses of what happened to Flight 77 he should come up with a
> better one --

I have a better one. It crashed into the Pentagon!

> but this is certain, he cannot default to the position
> that a Boeing went into the Pentagon, that possibility is eliminated
> by direct inspection of what happened, by merely looking at the

> Pentagon's own security camera record that shows the F-16 firing the

> missile:
>
> http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif
>
> and also this:
>
> http://www.thepowerhour.com/pentgallery/FrameSet.htm
>
> Scroll down to the 47th picture which is labeled pentani.ipg
> and to the 51st picture labeled pentvid1
>

I have looked and analyzed these photos over and over. All there
is is a fuzzy smudge. All there is for certain is a gigantic
explosion. There is no jet fighter, not one person saw a jet
fighter. All the witnesses said passenger jet.

> >
> > He accuses Hillary Clinton of being involved with the bombing of
> > the Federal Building in Oklahoma and that she had Nicole Brown
> > Simpson and Ron Goldman murdered to divert attention from the White
> > Water Scandal. I guess O.J. can stop looking for the killers.
>
> You can take that as right. Do you care to dispute this? The
> information I have collected is overwhelming. The murder was committed
> to provide cover for the Clintons in the whitewater investigation --
> the murder taking place the very night of Hillary's testimony before
> the special prosecutor. Yes, I agree with the Los Angeles jury and NY
> forensics expert Lee that O.J. is innocent. (Is that a crime?)

No, you are entitled to your opinion. I think OJ did it and the
Clintons had nothing to do with it.

> >
> > You are also correct about his "mindless bulldogs" and criticism
> > of anyone that disagrees with these ridiculous conspiracies. Some
> > of them even become foul mouth abusives.
>
> I don't own a bulldog. I had a mongrel but the neighbor poisoned it
> trying to kill the roosters that I bought for my daughters the year
> before (when they where chicks and I thought they would grow into
> quiet hens) -- it was the very day I had arranged for someone to take
> the them off my hands.
>
> I don't know what others say -- all I can tell you is that I don't
> write other people's material and that profanity is often born of
> exasperation.

Of course I don't think that you called or emailed everyone you know
to post attacks. This comment was from someone that was the target
of foul and abusive language. I found those comments to be offensive
to me. Adults should be able to discuss anything without sinking
to that level. I have never called anyone a foul name just because
we don't see eye to eye. And likewise I won't belittle someone
for spelling or grammatical errors.

> > > >In alt.fan.howard-stern Angel Elf <Ange...@angelfire.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't think that Dick is "lying". I think he really believes the
> > > > theories that he spews forth. He must have a lot of time on his hands
> > > > because of the sheer volume of stuff he puts out. Either that or
> > > > there is more then one Dick Eastman.
>
> Only believeing this is true would warrent such an expenditure of
> time. But why are you in this? Must it not be to deter people
> from sucking in what is spewed forth? Must it not be because you
> think that unless you put yourself in the way politically significant
> numbers of people might be persuaded? And does not that imply that
> you either think the arguments themselves compelling or you think
> that numbers of readers are suseptable to thinking like I do if
> given "too much" encouragement?

I am in it for many reasons. How can one learn without asking
questions? I enjoy a good debate and the free and open exchange
of ideas. I challenge you and your theories in the hopes that I
may learn something and perhaps change your mind on some points.
I don't really care who reads this stuff. I am not trying to
persuade anyone. I think that the majority of people believe
that these attacks were carried out by Islamic Fundamentalists
bent on hurting the United States, killing as many people as
they could, and calling attention to their cause. Do you think
the Government was behind the first bombing of the WTC? Your
arguments are compelling but like I said I think you are jumping to
conclusions, doing your "research" by just looking at articles
and web sites that take a little information and blow it up to
some wild conspiracy. I'll bet if you look hard enough you will find
"evidence" that the attacks were carried out by Aliens from
another world and all the passengers that were on those
airplanes are now being held in a mother ship orbiting Saturn.
Ask a lot of "what if" questions, add some coincidences, and stir
in some anecdotal hearsay and presto a conspiracy is born.
I, on the other hand have eye witnesses to the Pentagon attacks.
Not one mention of a jet fighter or missile. There are the bodies
that were recovered, and the wreckage of the jet airliner.

4,000 Jews, 1 Lie
http://slate.msn.com/?id=116813

Terrorist Attack on U.S.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blxterror.htm
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa091101a.htm

Eyewitness Accounts
Flight 77 Crash at the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm

Hunt the Boeing!
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm
http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/armymed/news/releases/afip.htm

Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities
News & Media - News Releases

by Christopher C. Kelly
Public Affairs, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology

What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic
investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification
of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists,
scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of
Pathology played a major role in Operation Nobel Eagle investigations,
officials said. AFIP is an executive agency of the Army surgeon
general.

Many of the Pentagon casualties were badly burned and difficult to
identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the
Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only
one of those who died made it to the hospital; the rest were killed on
site. For some victims, only pieces of tissue could be found.

AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic
anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel
worked for more than two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force
Base, Del., and for weeks at the Armed Forces DNA Identification
Laboratory in Rockville, Md., to identify victims of the attack.

"Our staff represented every branch of service," said Navy Capt. Glenn
N. Wagner, AFIP director. "We also received tremendous support from
the doctors, nurses and technicians stationed at Dover who
participated in the investigation."

AFIP used a well-designed and tested system for identifying the
Pentagon victims. When remains arrived at Dover Air Force Base, a
scanning device searched for the presence of unexploded ordnance or
metallic foreign bodies. FBI experts collected trace evidence to
search for chemicals from explosive devices and conducted fingerprint
identifications.

Forensic dentistry experts then performed dental charting and
comparison with existing dental records. Full-body radiographs
followed to document skeletal fractures and assist in identification,
followed by autopsy inspection. At autopsy, forensic pathologists
determined the cause of death, and a forensic anthropologist
determined race, sex and stature of victims when necessary.

An epidemiologist managed the tracking system for data collected
during the autopsy process, and tissue samples were collected for DNA
identification and further toxicology studies. Forensic photographers
documented injuries and personal effects. Finally, mortuary
specialists embalmed, dressed and casketed remains.

For eight days a full complement of AFIP forensic specialists worked
12-hour shifts to complete the identification system.

From DNA samples sent to the Armed Forces DNA Identification
Laboratory, scientists there generated DNA profiles of the victims.
Their work also included the victims of United Airlines Flight 93,
which crashed in Somerset County, Pa.

The DNA lab's entire staff of 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, and
logistics and administrative personnel worked 12-hour shifts, seven
days a week to complete the work.

DNA identifications for Flight 93 victims were sent to the Somerset
County Coroner's Office for release. The Department of Defense
released identification of Pentagon victims. All but four who worked
in the Pentagon were identified. AFIP identified all but one of the
passengers of Flight 77.

From the January 2002 Mercury, an Army Medical Department publication

> >
> > This is a direct quote from Dick:
> >
> > "Flight 77 -- Atlantic Trench or kidnap victims? Is Hillary Clinton
> > enemy Barbara Olsen still alive?
> >
> > We now know Flight 77 was not crashed into the Pentagon.
> > An F-16 flew over the Boeing 757 for a while, and then the airliner
> > was diverted with transponder off, flown by remote control to either
> > a crash site or a landing site known only to the 911 perpetrators.
> > From this follows the possibility that passengers and crew
> > may yet be alive or may have been alive as captives some days
> > following September 11 frame-up.
> >
> > I know this is far-fetched. I know this is not what the families of
> > the victims need to hear right now. But there is a possibility that
> > kidnap victims are being held somewhere and my responsibility is to
> > them if they exist (and I think they may.)
>

Snipped, Coincidence, What if's, and Hearsay...

Imusta

unread,

Apr 2, 2002, 10:51:00 PM4/2/02

What things are you speaking about?

"Tom Mosher" <tmo...@gbronline.com> wrote in message
news:Jutq8.11731$TG6.1...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 4, 2002, 1:10:32 PM4/4/02

Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02040...@posting.google.com>...

> eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message

> > [omitted]

>
> Yes, you did mention the "Atlantic Trench" but I just didn't know
> what it was and had no time to do any research so I just let it go.
> No, you did not say "top secret location" that was an assumption on
> my part. So you are saying that flight 77 landed at some airport
> and was lost in the crowd? I guess that because the transponder
> was shut off and they were being flown by remote control someone
> on the ground or in the aircraft gave a false ID for the plane to
> the air traffic controllers, and they allowed the plane to land,
> and taxi to a hanger. In this hanger all the passengers were then
> taken to another location to be held for some unknown reason.
> I guess that the plane was not being tracked by radar?
> If you want to prove this remote control theory of yours why not
> do a little research on the aircraft that was flight 77? Find out
> when all this technology was installed. How many hours this plane
> flew between the installation and the attack and where is it now?
> All you have to do is trace backwards from the last takeoff, all
> the stops the plane made and then where and when the maintenance was
> done.

You have given good advice for our intelligence and law-enforcement
agencies.

We do not know what happened to Flight 77, other than that it did not
crash into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. We have competing
working hypotheses -- but these are simply models that suggest to us
what kind of evidence to look for -- these scenarios suggest to us
what kind of evidence to look for -- you amply demonstrate how that
is intelligently done above (sorry I lack the resources to take you up
on it -- but it is within the resources of us all to establish that
the Pentagon was destroyed by the small plane captured clearly enough
in the Defense Department's own video of the event.) --

> > Yet we know for certain that the Pentagon was taken out by a
> > remote-controlled F-16 that fired a missile ahead to the point of its
> > own collision.
>
> No, we don't know that for certain. Not one eye witness saw a jet
> fighter or missile. The only "proof" you have is supposition and
> a blurry photo.

Many saw the jet. Some said it was too small to be a 757. Some of
those who said it was a 757 also claimed that the plane dived down
into the Pentagon -- but they are discredited by both witnesses and
the video which shows a horizontal approach -- "tree top level", said
one, "20 feet" said another.
All of these witnesses are thereby discredited -- and the fact that
these witnesses who claim to have seen a 757 also claim what we know
did not happen -- presents the group claiming to have witnessed events
as described in the "official" version is itself another datum in
determining whether or not there is official deceit regarding the
facts.

Then there is ol' pilot "Eagle Eye." Given events of no more than two
seconds -- that is the time it takes for the F-16 to cross the
Pentagon lawn -- it is very difficult for the human mind to digest and
interpret what it is seeing -- and a jet flying at high-speed
cruise-missile-style is not something anyone is going to see clearly.
[I chanced to be under a jet just taking off from the Yakima airport
-- going much slower than the attacking jet of September 11 -- yet
the time it took to traverse my guesstimate of the equivalent distance
from the street to the Pentagon was pretty short -- nothing
like watching a plane at 20,000 feet which stays in view as it covers
ten miles a minute (?). So the "pilot-witness" who said who says he
saw the "wings move forward" as the plane hit nose first is a little
too good to be believable to me.

But wait a minute. You say:

The only "proof" you have is supposition and a blurry photo.

First, I have demonstrated above, what is supposition (working
hypothesis) and what is established fact. I have tentative
suppositions about the fate of Flight 77 -- I have firm conclusions
based on hard evidence regarding the small plane attack. There is the
video and the consistency of the witnesses to a small plane" (in
contrast to the "never-happened-dive" inconsistency of those who say
they saw a Boeing 757 (and a lot more detail about wings moving
forward) phases of damage done in automobile crashes they have
witnessed? -- I have seen two such accidents but all I remember is
like a still shot of the action -- and those collisons occured at, at
most, 40 mph.

But look at the stills at

> > http://www.thepowerhour.com/pentgallery/FrameSet.htm
> >
> > Scroll down to the 47th picture which is labeled pentani.ipg
> > and to the 51st picture labeled pentvid1

See that the vertical stabilizer IS NOT BLURRED!!! The ouline of it
is clear. The logo is visible. The absence of the long fuselage is
totally evident -- and if it was there it would have been as clear as
the tail, would it not?

Finally I think it unfair to say that this is the only evidence I have
(think how misleading that is to first time readrs of this thread!)

The remote controlled planes were guided in my other aircraft in the
vicinity.
One of these was caputred flying past SOuth Tower just as it completed
its mission of directing the passenger jet into it. The Japanese
captured this guidance craft going by just at the critical moment.

See for yourself (first six frames (one is action clip).
http://www2.justnet.ne.jp/~kiti/Ufo/wtc/wtc.htm

(The unrelated other "ufo" at the bottom of the page is merely a bird
and may be safely ignored)

http://www2.justnet.ne.jp/~kiti/Ufo/wtc/wtc.htm

We I have to take my middle daughter to get her drivers liscence test.

Later.
Dick Eastman

Angel Elf

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Apr 7, 2002, 11:14:54 AM4/7/02

eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message news:<9ecacd20.02040...@posting.google.com>...

> Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02040...@posting.google.com>...
> > eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message
> > >
> > > [omitted]
> > >

Major Snip...

Dick here is my last word on this subject. The proof is in the
links. There are bodies and wreckage from flight 77.
Not ONE EYE WITNESS said jet fighter. I think that even a child
can tell the difference between a passenger jet and a fighter
jet.

That Japanese page you sited that claims a UFO was involved and
which you claim proves a remote controlled airliner proves nothing.
Once again there is just a smudge from perhaps a bit of debris being
ejected from the building. There were a minimum of three news
helicopters and at least one police chopper orbiting the WTC at the
time of the second crash and no one saw any other aircraft in the
area. I was watching this drama unfold live on TV and I have it
all on video tape and I saw no other aircraft in the area. With
all those eyes on the scene no one would have missed an airplane
fly by no matter how fast it was going.

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 11, 2002, 9:55:03 PM4/11/02

Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02040...@posting.google.com>...
> eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message news:<9ecacd20.02040...@posting.google.com>...
> > Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02040...@posting.google.com>...
> > > eas...@wolfenet.com (Dick Eastman) wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > [omitted]
> > > >
> Major Snip...
>
> Dick here is my last word on this subject.

I hope you will reconsider. Certainly the topic is important enough.
Certainly you have not quite "carried the day" for the "Boeing-ists"
yet. This is not time to walk away for either of us.

> The proof is in the
> links.

What links? The "urbanlegends debunker site? What links?

> There are bodies and wreckage from flight 77.

There are bodies from the personel at the Pentagon.

The army says there were other bodies, but, duh!, they
are the ones who are saying it was a Boeing 757. If
the D.o.D could identify all of the bodies except one
from the remains, where are the remains of the Boeing
that can be recognized. WHy did only one engine punch
through the back wall (the F-16 has but one engine -- the
most massive part of the plane, the one with momentum enough
to break through -- if the two-engine Boeing had hit
horizontally like that both of its engines would have gone
through the back wall of the first ring -- but instead we
see from the pre-roof-collapse pictures that the hole was
too narrow to accomodate engine-to-engine width of a 757.

That and the fact that the best of all witnesses -- the one
with the best "recall" and the quickest "reflexes" did
see an F-16 -- and I am talking about the D.o.D.'s very
own grounds surveillance video camera.

Here is an aviation expert who does not want to participate
in this debate (the quote is from his letter begging off)--
and note that he is inclined to suspect the Arabs and that
he is so convinced that the video shows an F-16 that he
assumes the F-16 was added by tricksters (although it is the
D.o.D video stills as shown on BBC and NBC :

> Dear Mr. Eastman,
>
> I would first like to thank you for considering me a
> "smart guy" because of my posts on some
> google.com groups.
>
> I'm affraid, however, I will have to disappoint you
> somewhat in this case.
> As first, I'm rather specialized on Middle Eastern air
> forces, and busting assess of certain "smart" gentlemen
> on the google-groups for their kind of argumentation
> about different Arab and the Iranian air force.
>
> And second, from the mpegs you have sent, I can't but
> express my estranged feeling at seeing what seems to
> be an F-16 with its cockpit open (i.e. raised) closing
> upon the Pentagon building in the first slide. Not only
> that it is - IMHO - between highly unlikely and
> impossible - anybody would fly an F-16 with open cockpit
> hood at that level (even if remotely controlled), or
> that to me that "F-16" seems so nicely to be doctored into
> that slide, or that there are simply too many frames missing
> from that mpeg-series for it to be conclusive, or that I see
> no traces of any missile being fired in advance of its arrival,
> but it is also so that no F-16 could cause the
> damage as massive as inflicted in the case of Pentagon,

Interesting about the cockpit canopy being missing! His trained
eye caught that. So we now have reason to suspect that the plane
was flown by a pilot for the first part
of the mission, and the remote-controlled portion was commenced
after the pilot ejected over some less populated area of Ohio,
when everyone was watching the WTC on television.

And of course there are three solid pieces of evidence that a missile
was fired: 1) the characteristic smoke of a rocket engine; 2) the
white hot initial explosion (aluminum does not explode when it hits
stone -- and jet fuel and helicopter fuel get hotter was their
combusion continues -- we can see that when the helicopter fuel next
to the Pentagon goes up, it is a much cooler (redder) blossom of
flame; and 3) we have
the writers own judgement that an F-16 alone could not account for all
of the destruction.

> Not ONE EYE WITNESS said jet fighter.

And the only one who said Boeing 727 for sure, also said he saw it
dive down on the building. (A bit of disinformation that is needed to
convince those familiar with the capabilities of both jet fighters and
airliners that the Boeing story is plausible -- airliners do not
come in horizontally over
urban terraine at "20-feet", at "tree-top level"

ANd most important of all -- no one reading this has ever had a jet
fly over them at 20 feet going at 400 mph. It appear and be gone in a
flash. The sound would seem to come frome everywhere -- you could not
orient to find it in time but to catch the last second of its
existence -- and we know that the F-16 had a fake logo on its vertical
stabilizer.

> I think that even a child can tell the difference
> between a passenger jet and a fighter jet.

The question is not one of intelligence, or maturity,
or experience -- it is the duration of stimulus,
the psychological expectation of what is seen (based
on hearing about airliners hitting buildings in
New York) -- certainly the timing allowed for the
New York event to condition perceptions of the Pentagon
event.

But a jet fighter using land-contour-hugging automatic
controls or remote computer assisted control coming at
you at 20 feet -- gives not time to take in what happened.
We all know about the real social psychology experiment
in which a designated man in a crowded room suddenly appears
brandishing a banana, yells "Bang! Bang!" another man (a
confederate in the experiment) drops to the floor and then
is quickly "helped up and out of the room" -- and the people
said they heard and saw a gun!!!

You don't believe me? Let me prove the power of suggestion
(such as the suggestion made by the news of airliners in
New York and the fake Am Airlines logo on the tail of the
F-16). Let's do a littel experiment.

Count the F's in the sentence below:

FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-
SULTS OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-
IC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE
EXPERIENCE OF YEARS.

> That Japanese page you sited that claims a UFO was involved and
> which you claim proves a remote controlled airliner proves nothing.

I never claimed it proves anything -- but it does provide an answer to
another discussant who insists that remote control flight would need
transmitting or monitoring aircraft nearby and asserts that nothing
like that was present. Now he cannot make that statement with
certainty, can he? ANd of course the Japanese picture of the moment
of the plane hitting the SOuth Tower has little to do with the
Pentagon evidence that is the real conclusive "smoking gun" -- the
photographic record that catches our criminal elites in the act.

> Once again there is just a smudge from perhaps a bit of debris being
> ejected from the building. There were a minimum of three news
> helicopters and at least one police chopper orbiting the WTC at the
> time of the second crash and no one saw any other aircraft in the
> area.

Absolutely no way. We can see that the object comes from behind the
tower, and yet it passes out of site before the explosion from the
crash travels 20 feet!!!
No way it was a helicopter. It was military technology and it was
right
there when the plane hit. I can't see how you can dismiss this as you
do.

> I was watching this drama unfold live on TV and I have it
> all on video tape and I saw no other aircraft in the area. With
> all those eyes on the scene no one would have missed an airplane
> fly by no matter how fast it was going.

So you confirm that nothing "conventional" was in the vacinity?
My eyes would be on the plane and the tower. Where would yours
have been? Anyway, the camera caught it.

Oh, by the way there were two more F's than the three
that you counted. (You forgot to count the one's that
make a "v" sound -- the first three "f's" anchored your
minds on the voiceless frictive "f" -- and so the voiced
frictive was missed. And can't a small child identify
an "F" when he sees one? (Actually being a child who
can't read might have been an advantage in this case.)

Finally, you give all these references to the
urbanlegends.about.com site -- but how honest is
that site.

Most readers of this thread know my postion pretty well.
No go to urbanlegends.about.com and see if you can recognize
any of the evidence or analysis that you have seen here.

It is an obvious smear job. (I notice you don't repeat their
absurd straw-man arguments here.)

I've just plastered the military and the nations editors with
all of the data. Expect massive leaks very soon. I've also
sent to 150 editors around the country.

You don't want to leave this discussion yet.

> Eyewitness Accounts
> Flight 77 Crash at the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001
> http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm

> http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/armymed/news/releases/afip.htm

I've answered this.

Now, are you protecting someone with your myopia, AngelElf -- are
they worthy of your loyalty? Remember, Israel has no greater enemy
than the bafoon coward who kills children and pretends his
thuggishness makes him any kind of warrier.

The best thing for people of every race and ethnic of thie planet will
be to get the Establishment Mafia and the Likud Mafia out of places
where they have the power to kill large numbers of people -- they
have obviously abused their responsibility.

View this:
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Then these two:

http://www.thepowerhour.com/pentgallery/FrameSet.htm

Scroll down to the 47th picture which is labeled pentani.ipg
and to the 51st picture labeled pentvid1

I recommend these 11 September frame-up criminal investigation sites:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm

http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert
www.bighula.com/copvcia/ (mirror of above)
http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.rense.com Jeff Rense
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk

http://www.narconews.com

John Doe

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Apr 12, 2002, 3:17:55 AM4/12/02

Dick,

Cut the Gordian knot.

Why not contact members of the victim's families to see if their loved ones
really perished aboard flight 77? Maybe Frank Calley would talk to you
about his wife:

SUZANNE CALLEY, 42, of San Martin, Calif., worked for
Cisco Systems Inc. and was aboard American Flight 77.
Calley loved to scuba dive, and she and her husband,
Frank
Jensen, often spent weekends teaching others how. "I
loved
her more than life itself," Jensen said. "She was my
whole
life."

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/people/1466.html

If Mr. Calley won't talk to you, perhaps someone else on the following list
will. Several of the victims worked for large, public companies; people who
could corrobate the victim's fate. Surely not everyone in those companies
was subverted by your "bad rich men".

Many of the victims have received extensive coverage on the web from several
different sources. Consider Mari-Rae Sopper.

http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/athletes/athletenews/an-dec01.html

http://www.usgyms.net/sopper.htm

==============================================
American Airlines Flight 77, Washington to Los Angeles,
crashed into Pentagon

CREW:
.Charles Burlingame, 51, Herndon, Va., captain, American
Airlines
.David M. Charlebois, 39, Washington, D.C., first officer,
American Airlines
.Michele Heidenberger, 57, Chevy Chase, Md., flight
attendant, American Airlines
.Jennifer Lewis, 38, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant, American
Airlines
.Kenneth Lewis, 49, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant, American
Airlines
.Renee May, 39, Baltimore, Md., flight attendant, American
Airlines

PASSENGERS:
.Paul Ambrose, 32, physician
http://dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/111201/memoriam_7.html

.Yeneneh Betru, 35, Burbank, Calif., director of medical
affairs, IPC
http://www.ethioworld.com/yeneneh.htm

.MJ Booth
.Bernard Brown, 11, student, Leckie Elementary School
(Washington)
.Suzanne Calley, 42, San Martin, Calif., Cisco Systems Inc.
.William E. Caswell, 54, Silver Spring, Md., physicist, U.S.
Navy
.Sarah Clark, 65, Columbia, Md., sixth-grade teacher, Backus
Middle School (Washington)
.Zandra Cooper, Annandale, Va.
.Asia Cottom, 11, student, Backus Middle School
(Washington)
.James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Md., fifth-grade
teacher, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington)
.Rodney Dickens, 11, student, Ketcham Elementary School
(Washington)
.Eddie Dillard
.Charles Droz, 52, Springfield, Va., vice president for
software
development, EM Solutions Inc.
.Barbara G. Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nev., teacher, Palo
Verde High School
.Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Md., research
director, ECOlogic Corp.
.Dana Falkenberg, 3, University Park, Md.
.Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md.
.James Joe Ferguson, 39, Washington, D.C., educational
outreach director, National Geographic Society
.Darlene "Dee" Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va.
.Wilson "Bud" Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va., retired Navy Admiral
and pilot, American Airlines
.Richard P. Gabriel Sr., 54, Great Falls, Va., managing
partner, Stratin Consulting
.Ian Gray, 55, Washington, D.C., healthcare consulting firm
president
.Stanley Hall, 68, Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif.
.Bryan Jack, 48, Alexandria, Va., senior executive, Defense
Department
.Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, Alexandria, Va., chief operating
officer, Metrocall Inc.
.Ann Judge, 49, Great Falls, Va., travel officer manager,
National Geographic Society
.Chandler Keller, 29, El Segundo, Calif., propulsion engineer,
Boeing Co.
.Yvonne Kennedy
.Norma Khan, 45, Reston, Va., nonprofit organization
manager,
.Karen A. Kincaid, 40, lawyer, Wiley Rein & Fielding
(Washington)
.Dong Lee, 48, Leesburg, Va., engineer, Boeing Co.
.Dora Menchaca, 45, Santa Monica, Calif., associate director
of clinical research, Amgen Inc.
.Christopher Newton, 38, Ashburn, Va., executive, WorkLife
Benefits
.Barbara Olson, 45, TV commentator and lawyer
.Ruben Ornedo, 39, Los Angeles, Calif., propulsion engineer,
Boeing Co.
.Robert Penniger, 63, Poway, Calif., electrical engineer, BAE
Systems
.Robert R. Ploger III, 59, Annandale, Va., software architect,
Lockheed Martin Corp.
.Lisa J. Raines, 42, Great Falls, Va., senior vice president,
Genzyme Corp.
.Todd Reuben, 40, Potomac, Md., tax and business lawyer
.John Sammartino, 37, Annandale, Va., technical manager,
XonTech Inc.
.Yang Shuyin, 61, Beijing, China, retired pediatrician
.Diane Simmons
.George Simmons
.Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, Santa Barbara, Calif., women's
gymnastics coach, UC Santa Barbara
.Robert Speisman, 47, Irvington, N.Y., diamond industry
salesman
.Norma Lang Steuerle, 54, Alexandria, Va.
.Hilda Taylor, sixth-grade teacher, Leckie Elementary School
(Washington)
.Leonard Taylor, 44, Reston, Va., technical group manager,
XonTech Inc.
.Sandra Teague, 31, Fairfax, Va., physical therapist,
Georgetown University Hospital
.Leslie A. Whittington, 45, University Park, Md., professor,
Georgetown University
.John Yamnicky, 71, Waldorf, Md.
.Vicki Yancey, 44, Springfield, Va., Vredenburg
.Zheng Yuguang, 65, Beijing, China, retired chemist

Message has been deleted

Dick Eastman

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Apr 12, 2002, 5:53:01 PM4/12/02

"Shawshank" <apa...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<VSzt8.40386$8E3.8...@news02.optonline.net>...
> Play the emotion card when logic is needed.
>
>
> "John Doe" <m1...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:DSvt8.210965$Yv2.67408@rwcrnsc54...

> > Dick,
> >
> > Cut the Gordian knot.
> >
> > Why not contact members of the victim's families to see if their loved
> ones really perished aboard flight 77? Maybe Frank Calley would talk to you
> > about his wife:

Thanks for the suggestion, John Doe

I cannot do that. I fail to see how these living victims of 911 have
any special knowledge simply by virtue of being relatives of those
killed. I could never approach them on this issue even if I thought
it would help.

Certainly someone in their confidence is aware that there is a number
of people throughout the world who suspect that 911 was a frame-up.
Let these loved ones contact us or inquire of the living victims.

I know that no family member has contacted any of the investigators I
know of. I suspect they too want to know the truth, have their
suspicions perhaps.

No, most important, I doubt that any of them actually meaningfully
confirmed the autopsy evidence, the forensics evidence, presented by
the D.o.D. I doubt that family members critically examined the
remains and the bases upon which identifications were claimed to have
been made.

One can think aof a variety of reasons why these people who have
suffered so much might wish not to be involved.

At any rate, they have no special knowledge to match their special
loss and pain.

Interpret my reluctance any way you like, I won't do it.

Dick

John Doe

unread,

Apr 12, 2002, 11:39:36 PM4/12/02

So, if the alledged passengers of flight 77 were not killed aboard flight
77, how then were they? Explain the logistics of how the bad rich men
managed that one, Dick.

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message

news:9ecacd20.02041...@posting.google.com...

Dick Eastman

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Apr 13, 2002, 7:40:59 PM4/13/02

"We Believe Cynthia" Campaign launched by anti-CFR Democrats "Doo
Dah ! Doo Dah ! " -- une représentante dém. accuse Bush
The Truth is Busting out all over. Selection:
==============

From: "Bob Fertik" <b...@democrats.com>
To: <bosa...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 1:51 PM
Subject: We Believe Cynthia Campaign

We're launching a campaign called "We Believe Cynthia", modeled after
the "We Believe Anita" campaign from 1991. Here are the items we've
posts so far:

Cynthia McKinney Punctures 9-11 Myth, and Washington Explodes in Rage

Two weeks ago, Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) demanded answers to the
urgent UNASKED question about 9-11: given the various pre-911 warnings
that have widely been reported, WHAT DID THIS ADMINISTRATION KNOW AND
WHEN DID THEY KNOW IT?
(http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/03.29G.McKinney.War.htm).

On 4-12-02, Washington Post reporter Juliet Eilperin (with David Von
Drehle) excerpted McKinney's remarks under the headline: "Democrat
Implies Sept. 11 Administration Plot." This is an outrage - reporters
should REPORT what people objectively DO or SAY - not substitute their
subjective INFERENCES!

The article then quotes critics who denounce McKinney for having "a
partisan mind-set beyond all reason," of "tapping into a web of
conspiracy theories," of demonstrating "a total lack of responsibility
in her statements." This is a smear campaign against an outspoken
black woman -
just like Anita Hill and Lani Guinier, both of whom were right! Write
eilp...@washpost.com and tell her YOU BELIEVE CYNTHIA!

AP and NY Times Join McKinney Smear Campaign - Let's Fight Back by
Declaring 'We Believe Cynthia!'

Picking up where Juliet Eilperin left off, an anonymous AP reporter
expanded the smear campaign against Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) for
daring to ask questions about 9-11. First they quote right-wing
Democrat Senator Zell Miller calling her statement "loony," also
"dangerous and irresponsible." Then they quote Ari Falsifier saying
she "must be running for the Hall of Fame of the Grassy Knoll
Society." Then they cite several unpopular positions as evidence that
she's a wacko - rather than an UNCORRUPTED, PRINCIPLED, TRUTH-SEEKING
AGGRESSIVE PROGRESSIVE POLITICIAN.

During the vicious smear campaign against truthteller Anita Hill (as
confirmed by David Brock), progressive Democrats wore buttons saying
"We Believe Anita." We need a similar campaign now - write
let...@nytimes.com and tell them WE BELIEVE CYNTHIA!

Under Intense Media Fire, Cynthia McKinney Fires Right Back!

In a single day, Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) was attacked by the
Washington Post, the AP, and the NY Times. Did she run into a secret
bunker, like Cheney and Bush? No way! Like a true Aggressive
Progressive, McKinney fired right back. "News reports from Der Spiegel
to the London Observer, from the Los Angeles Times to MSNBC to CNN,
indicate that many different warnings were received by the
Administration. In addition, it has even been reported that the United
States government broke bin Laden's secure communications before
September 11... What is undeniable is that corporations close to the
Administration, have directly benefited from the increased defense
spending arising from the aftermath of September 11. The Carlyle
Group, DynCorp, and Halliburton certainly stand out as companies close
to this Administration." We believe Cynthia!

Bob Fertik, Managing Partner
Democrats.com
b...@democrats.com
718-424-7772
=====================

> Rep. McKinney Accuses Bush of Profiting From 9/11
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,50164,00.html
>
>
> WASHINGTON - The Bush administration may have had advanced notice of the
> Sept. 11 terrorist attacks but failed to stop them in order to profit from
> the destruction, a Democratic congresswoman alleges.
>
>
> "We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11.
> What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events
> of September 11? Who else knew, and why did they not warn the innocent
> people of New York who were needlessly murdered? . What do they have to
> hide?" asked Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, according to The
> Washington Post.
>
> A spokeswoman at KPFA94.1 FM in Berkely, Calif., confirmed that McKinney had
> spoken on air from their studios on March 26. The staff was scrambling to
> answer reporters' phone calls and to get the audio from that session up on
> their Web site Friday.
>
> A White House spokesman dismissed the allegations, calling them "ludicrous,
> baseless views."
>
> In the interview, McKinney asserted that the Bush administration was serving
> the interests of the Carlyle Group, a Washington-based investment firm that
> employs several high-ranking former government officials from both parties
> and counts former President George H.W. Bush as an adviser.
>
> Carlyle Spokesman Chris Ullman balked at McKinney's radio interview, telling
> The Washington Post, "Did she say these things while standing on a grassy
> knoll in Roswell, New Mexico?"
>
> Georgia Democratic Sen. Zell Miller said at first he thought to write off
> the comments as "loony," but then decided they were "dangerous and
> irresponsible." He also reminded Bush to consider the source.
>
> "I hope President Bush will remember that this is the same congresswoman who
> during each of his State of the Union addresses - arrives early to get a
> coveted aisle seat, then leans way over as Bush walks down the aisle, hoping
> he will give her a kiss for all to see on national TV," Miller said in a
> statement.
>
> A spokeswoman at the radio station who asked not to be named said she
> believed that the newspaper had read too much into the congresswoman's
> comments.
>
> "She was calling for a full investigation into the terrorist attacks. She
> wasn't trying to implicate the president in any plot," she said.
>
> On Friday, McKinney clarified her remarks, but repeated her assertions that
> certain corporations were benefiting from its ties to the White House.
>
> "I am not aware of any evidence showing that President Bush or members of
> his administration have personally profited from the attacks of 9-11. A
> complete investigation might reveal that to be the case," she said "(W)hat
> is undeniable is that corporations close to the administration have directly
> benefited from the increased defense spending arising from the aftermath of
> Sept. 11. The Carlyle Group, DynCorp, and Halliburton certainly stand out as
> companies close to this administration."
>
> Also in the radio conversation, McKinney took several swipes at the
> president, accusing him of stealing the 2000 election, and calling his
> administration "questionable."
=========^==========================
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in
peace. We
ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of
those
who feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you. May posterity
forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

The Brave and the Scorned:
Facing the Truth About 911

by Paul Walker

Democrat Implies Sept. 11 Administration Plot
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34565-2002Apr11.html

We the People have been waiting for our cue to really crank up the
heat on
911. This is it! Representative Mckinney has sounded off on KPFK
radio, in
the Washington Post and the NY Post so far and has been vilified on
national
TV already as of April 12, 2002 for it. Now its time for those who
care
about freedom and life itself, to do our part to light the internet,
the
press and the airwaves on fire with this truth. Ms. McKinney is about
to be
pilloried in the press, and roasted alive by the US government. We owe
it to
her to fight fire with fire and defend this lone brave woman who has
nothing
to gain by exposing herself to a witch-burning by the Grand
Inquisitors of
the Masonic-Fascist New World Order. You will see them all dodge every
accusation, denying any substance and instead turn towards
assassinating her
character. At the least, this will show us all who is for the truth
being
told and who is violently against it. I hope people realize just how
brave
Cynthia McKinney really is.

One thing I want to stress: This is not about hating America and the
many
good values it stands for. This is about reforming the US government
and all
governments with good representative sovereign government, not a
corrupt UN
World Government in which you will have no rights whatsoever. Its
about
exposing the corporations, financial institutions, contractors and
so-called
leaders who have both participated in and stood to gain most from 911
and
its aftermath of war and police state tyranny. We do indeed live in
interesting times so lets make the most of it.

Ordo Ab Chao: The Preferred Method of Tyrants

It's a hey-day for totalitarian regimes of all kinds from the US, to
Israel,
to the EU to China to use the cattle prod of terror to implement their
brutal techno-Orwellian nightmare. And this is the method of
globalization:
putting up cameras everywhere, telephone and email surveillance, using
every
conceivable biometric device, scanning you with x-rays in airports,
microchipping the population like cattle ready for market or
slaughter,
silencing dissent, citizen's spying on citizens as they do in
Communist
China, removing due process, legalizing torture and genocide, killing
off
those who know too much like the 16 microbiologists who have died
since 911,
illegally detaining thousands of people, sending foreign troops to
every
country to "restore order". Folks, it is so in-your-face and yet there
are
far too many sleeping zombies who think everything is fine as long as
they
can get their new car and a MacDonald's hamburger. Slap them if you
have to.
They need to wake up.

The globalists create the problem and they offer the solution. Are you
going
to let them get away with it? One major reason they get away with it
is
because the media cooperates and the people believe the lies they spew
forth. This has been going on for a very long time, but now is the
time for
people to finally wake up and break the historic Hegelian cycle of
subterfuge and pretext. This is maybe our final opportunity for a
dramatic
change in our world on the road to real freedom, peace and security.
And we
the tireless minority must seize it!

Ordo Ab Chao means Order Through Chaos, an ancient and effective
method of
ruling through terror, controlling the masses through fear. Operation
911
was just such a Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario, a massive
Psychological
Operation used to justify global warfare for resources and a clampdown
on
Constitutional rights, IN EVERY COUNTRY! It was done with full
complicity
across the board, not only through our CFR-Trilateral conspirators,
the CIA,
the FBI, the DOJ, the Pentagon and their media propagandists, but no
doubt
with the guiding hands of the UN-NATO-EU-Bilderberg cabal, the Royal
Institute of International Affairs, MI6, the Russian FSB, Mossad and
of
course the invaluable assistance of CIA-ISI-MI6 operative, Osama bin
Ladin
and his hired crew of mind-controlled mercenaries. They all work
together at
the top of the hierarchy and we should never forget it.

Bush Family Values: The Family That Preys Together, Stays Together

The Bush family are not nice guys. They come from a long line of elite
pirates, drug barons, banksters and promoters of both Nazism and
Bolshevism.
Their symbol is the black flag of pirates, the Skull & Bones to which
order
of German Fascist Freemasonry they belong. And the Bush and the Pierce
families are closely related to the royal bloodlines of Europe,
especially
those of the fascist House of Windsor and of Charlemagne which is one
reason
they are in power today. They have robbed, lied and cheated their way
into
power leaving a trail of blood and tears in their wake.

But 911 was not solely a Bush family operation. It was and is
approved by
many working in our government for a UN World Government, not only
Republicans, but the majority of Democrats as well. Democrat Gary
Hart, for
example spoke from the CFR pulpit stating that the tragedy of 911 was
empowering global government and would lead to a "New World Order",
quoting
George Bush Senior who was the first to hammer that concept into the
American mind:

"The war in Iraq is a rare opportunity to move toward an historic
period of
cooperation. Out of these troubled times...a New World Order can
emerge."
-- President George H. W. Bush in a speech to Congress on SEPTEMBER
11,
1990

"My vision of a New World Order forsees a U.N. with a revitalized
peacekeeping function. It is the sacred principles enshrined in the
U.N.
Charter to which we henceforth pledge our allegiance"
--George Bush ex-president, ex-CIA director, Knights of Malta, Skull &
Bones, Trilateral Commission. On February 1st, 1992

The Globalists are Coming, Hell! They Already Here!

Democrat Cynthia McKinney is an exception to the globalist rule, a
lone
independent voice of truth and moral conscience along with Republican
Ron
Paul, opposing the unbelievable level of corruption that has brought
us to
the brink of world war. 911 was the alchemical flash in the pan they
needed
to accelerate the whole Agenda and Ms. McKinney is giving this fact a
voice
that must be heard to resound throughout the world. It is the voice of
reason, truth, conscience and of protest against the heinous lies and
disregard for human life and liberty that all these truly evil
globalists
and their minions, like the state-controlled media, live by as a
matter of
elitist principle.

Note the following quote from a 'prince', that is one whose family has
confiscated the wealth of his countrymen and kept it and the reins of
power
right into the 21st century simply because they felt they had the
'right' to
do so:

"It is difficult to re-educate people who have been brought up on
nationalism to the idea of relinquishing part of their sovereignty to
a
supra-national body."
--Bilderberg founder Prince Bernhard, in Alden Hatch, H. R. H. Prince
Bernhard of the Netherlands: An Authorized Biography, 1962

I am primarily speaking here to those who somehow think this was all
just
cooked up last year by Bush and his buddies to increase his approval
ratings
and Daddy's profits. I am sorry to break this to those who approach
this
from a narrow partisan perspective, but its a lot bigger than that and
it is
really part of the policy of the Council on Foreign Relations which
has two
wings, Democrat and Republican working together to the same ends. But
who
does the CFR answer to? Israel? The Vatican? The Queen of England?
Many
speculate, and its not so cut and dried, but they do answer directly
to the

Royal Institute of International Affairs in London.

The RIIA in turn answers to the Bilderberg cabal, a primarily white,
European papist-monarchist-fascist clique, who are the top-level
representatives of the real worldly power and the real money-- the
'royal'
and what are known as the Illuminati bloodlines on this planet. Israel
and
Sharon answer to them! Not the other way round. As did Hitler. As did
Stalin. As did Clinton. As does Bush. As does Blair. So to those who
blame
the Jews exclusively, I would say you ought to love the Bilderbergers
because their cofounder, Prince Bernhard was a former Nazi SS Officer
working with I G Farben who supplied the technology to liquidate the
Jews
and many others.

Historical Precedents

The Masonic Fascist method of Ordo Ab Chao, Order Through Chaos is a
method
that has worked so well throughout history to herd the sheep with the
dogs
of terror into the directions desired. We have fallen for it time
after
time. The Reichstag Fire and Pearl Harbor are among the most glaring
examples and are easy to understand. But there have been so many more
such
operations and they continue to be used by the power elite to push
their
agendas through. What is happening in the Middle East is again
manipulated
to rile up the Arabs and get them on the warpath to justify
intensified
chaos and further pretexts for UN-NATO intervention in Israel and the
bombing into submission of Iraq, Iran and probably fifty other
countries.

World War I was manipulated by the same cabal of bankers and royal
families
who are doing it today. The result was the League of Nations and a
Germany
that was primed from the start to buildup, with help from bankers on
both
sides of the pond for the next manipulation, World War II. The end
result of
that was the the UN and the Cold War. Further manipulations proceeded
as
governments were covertly overthrown by the globalists leading to the
ultimate psychological operation in history on September 11th, 2001.
This
was to be the catalyst for World War III, and the final result? It
will be
the Trilateral creation of three Super-States, the European Union from
the
EC, the American Union from NAFTA and the Asian Union from APEC all
linked
together under global jurisdiction of the UN. Who stands to gain? It
is not
the people, that is for sure.

I have to ask anyone who thinks the UN was a good idea to mull these
facts
over. Everything that is happening is manipulated by the top-levels of
government around the world on behalf of a handful of very powerful
people,
the ones with all the money. Who are they? Well,we know the
Rothschilds are
at the top of the hierarchy, the Rockefellers and the DuPonts, the
Mellons,
the Windsors, Warburgs and the Morgans are up there too. But lets be
clear:
its not everyone bearing these names, nor is it just "the Jews". Its
Jews,
its WASPS, its Italian Jesuits and British Freemasons and Spanish
Knights of
Malta like King Juan Carlos. Its the power elites of many races and
power
groups working together to dominate and oppress the common People.
Bush,
Blair, Jiang, Karzai, Sharon and Arafat are their puppets, their
willing
accomplices. Lets make sure we know who the real enemies of the people
are
and lets be sure that the truth gets out to all the people of the
world so
that justice can be served, reform can occur and healing can begin.

One of the best ways to bring this about will be to rally around
heroes and
patriots like Cynthia McKinney. Stand up and be counted with her and
remember these words:

"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man and brave,
hated
and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for
then
it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

JimFor

unread,

Apr 13, 2002, 9:49:46 PM4/13/02

>We're launching a campaign called "We >Believe Cynthia", modeled after
>the "We Believe Anita" campaign from >1991. Here are the items we've
>posts so far:

You better be better than that. They still got Judge Thomas.

Truthout

unread,

Apr 13, 2002, 10:55:08 PM4/13/02

That will be changing soon

truthout

The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its’
determination to continue to be a world power."

- Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post,
April 1975

"JimFor" <jim...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20020413214946...@mb-mk.aol.com...

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 17, 2002, 6:57:54 AM4/17/02

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com>
Newsgroups: sci.econ,uk.politics.economics
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:27 AM
Subject: Zionist media hijacking the US to crash us into Islam? Seek
measured justice, not indiscriminate war.

Terror, by definition, is loss of reason.

Ben Laden himself and Hitler too were ordinary men
traumatized into the eye-for-an-eye thinking that enslaves
Jew and Arab today.

We must find the murderers, the perpetrators of the specific
act -- perhaps fifty or a hundred people -- and apply justice
that the world and future generations will recognize as measured
and right.

We must not go to war with those who -- sensitive to
the trauma that made the terrorists -- withhold turning
over evil to equal and opposite evil.

What do I mean?

From the New York Times, September 26, 1981:

"A few of the Jewish guerrillas who blew up the King David Hotel in
1946
came back to the King David yesterday evening -- this time to sip
champagne,
reminisce and mix their pride and sorrow at the events of thirty-five
years
ago. Even now, in middle age, they had a stony toughness in their
eyes.

"The man who set the fuses was there. The woman who made three futile
phone
calls of warning was there. The man who brought the explosives into
Jerusalem, the man who guarded a key corridor, the man who was
drinking
quietly in the bar, were there. But their commander, Menachem Begin,
now
Prime Minister of Israel, did not attend. He had been invited and had
apparently vacillated all week, and finally did not appear."

And after Begin we have Ariel Sharon, who was carrying an automatic
weapon and killing Palestinians since age fourteen -- the man who
has
been murdering Palestinian women and children in retaliation for the
anguished acts of the men he has tormented -- retaliation against men
who attach bombs to themselves and blow themselves taking with them
whatever Zionists and motivated -- as always -- by revenge for
injustice
-- men driven insane by men like Menachem Begin and Ariel Sharon
and by a global elite who denied them a voice in appeals for justice
in the forums of world opinion. Men do not blow themselves up unless
in response to great injustice and frustration of all efforts to
obtain
justice, because Zionist billioniares own the worlds media.
----

Gandhi understood the futility of violence when he wrote the words
that
conclude this post.

What did we do to bring on this act of
desperate and terrible vengence?

A man beats a dog again and again -- and finally,
when that dog gets a chance it mauls that man's
baby daughter found playing on the grass in the
back yard. Yes, destroy the dog if you must
(and only that dog), but also ask yourself,
'What about the man who tormented that dog
and drove it mad?'

Moslems are victims of monstrous injustice
in the Middle East and elsewhere. And they are
denied even the right to be heard in their demands
for justice -- while the media monopoly of their
exploiters and tormenters portray every event
with unilateral indignation.

Under such circumstances the attitudes of
the victims are quite predictable.

And we saw Palestinians attaching bombs to themselves
to blow themselves up as long as they could strike against
perceived injustice.

And we saw a car bomb in the garage of the
World Trade Center.

And we saw Tim McVeigh.

And we knew what Ariel Sharon was doing --
murdering innocents in brutal blind retaliation -- yet we
defended him anyway because of Jewish money and
the power of men associated with all that the
World Trade Center stood for.

And we knew what Clinton and Bush were doing
to torment Iraq, to coerce them into deposing their
leader and surrendering their oil and their God --which
they will never do because of their own sense of justice.

And American new anchorman, Jennings, says that
"no one expected this" --

How incompetent and blind and evil are our own deviant
elite who brought this upon their own heads and the
heads of all those simple innocent doormen, cleaning
ladies, filing clerks, copy machine operators, janitors,
firemen and the single mom glad to have a job and dreaming
that the young investment banker down the hall might
notice her legs.

=======^================

The American people have revealed how naive they
are and the media how ruthless in exploiting human
grief and anger to serve the agenda of their masters.

From H.G. Wells, The War in the Air, chapter 6
"How War Came to New York" (written in 1908):

The City of New York was in the year of the ...attack
the largets, richest, in many respects the most splendid,
and in some, the wickedest city the world had ever seen.
She was the supreme type of the City of the Scientific
Commercial Age; she displayed its greatness, its power,
its ruthless anarchic enterprise, and its social disorganization
most strickingly and completely. She had long ousted London
from her pride of place as the moder Babylon, she was the center
of the world's finance, the world's trade, and the world's pleasure;
and men likened her to the apocalyptic cities of the ancient prophets.
She sat drinking up the wealth of a continent, as Rome once drank
the wealth of the Mediterrainian, and Babylong the wealth of the east.
In her streets one found the extremes of magnificence and misery, of
civilization and disorder. In one quarter, palaces of marble, laced
and crowned with light and flame and flowers, towered up into her
marvellous twilights beautiful beyond description; in another, a black
sinister polyglot population sweltered in indescribable congestion in
warrens and excavations beyond the power and knowledge of
government. Here vice, her crime, her law alike were inspired by
a fierce and terrible energy, and like the great cities of mediaeval
Italy, her ways were dark and adventurous withprivate war.

It was the peculiar shape of Manhattan Island, pressed in by
arms of the sea on either side, and incapable of comfortable
expansion except along a narrow belt, that first gave the New York
architects their bias for extreme vertical dimensions. Every need
was lavishly supplied them -- money, material, labour; only space
was restricted. To begin with, therefore, they built high perforce.
But to do so was to discover a whole new world of architectural
beauty, of exquisit ascendant lines, and long after the central
congestion had been relieved by tunnels under the sea, for collossal
bridges over the East River, and a dozen monorail cables east and
west, the upward growth went on. In many ways New York and
her gorgeous plutocracy repeated Venice; in the magnificance of
her architecture, painting, metalwork and sculpture, for example,
in the grim intensity of her political method, in her maritime and
commercial ascendancy. But she repeated no previous state at
all in the lax disorder of her internal administration, a laxity that
made
vast sections of her area lawless beyond precendent, so that it was
possible for whole districts to be impassable while civil war raged
between street and street, and for Alsatias to exist in her midst in
which the official police never set foot. She was an ethnic
whirlpool.
The flags of all nations flwew in her harbour, and at the climax, the
yearly coming and going overseas numbered together upwards of
two million human beings. To Eurpoe she was America, to America
she was the gateway of the earth. But to tell the story of New York
would be to srite a social history of the world; saints and maryters,
dreamers and scoundrels, the traditions of a thousand races and a
thousand religions, went to her making and throbbed and jostled in
her streets. ANd over all that torrential confustion of men and
purposes fluttered that strange flag, the stars and stripes, that
meant
at once the noblest thing in life and the least noble, that is to say
Liberty on the one hand and on the other the base jealously the
individual self-seeker feels towards the common purpose of the
nation."

And from another writer,1800 years before Wells:

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice saying, Babylon the great
has fallen, is fallen, and become the habitation of devils, and the
hold
of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean bird. For all
nations
have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings
of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants
of the world are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
ANd I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my
people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not
of her plaugeus. ... How much she hath glorified herself, and lived
deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her
heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning,
and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is
the
Lord God who judgeth her.

"And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for
her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning. Atanding
afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, aas, that
great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is they
judgement come.

"And merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her;
for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise
of gold and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine
linen, and .... wine and oil.. and wheat, and beasts, and .. chariots,
and slaves, and souls of men.

"And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee,
and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from
thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. TYhe merchants
of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar
off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing. And saying
Alas, alsa, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and
purple,
and scarlet, and dected with gold, and precious stones and pearls!
For in one hourso great riches is come to naught. And every
shipmaster, and all the company of ships, and sailors, and as many
as trade by sea stood afar off, And cried when whey saw the
smoke of her burnging, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing,
saying, Alas, alas, that great city wherein were made rich all that
had
ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour she is
made desolate. .... Thus with violence shall that great city
Babylon
be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. .. ANd the light of
a cabdke shall shine no more in thee; and t voice of the bridgreeom
and
of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants
were
the great men of the earth; for by they sorceries were all nations
deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints,
and of all that were slain upon the earth.

"And after these things I heard a great voice of mcuh people
saying, Alleluia: Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto
the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgements: for
he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with
her fornication and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her
hand."

Usually in "war" the little guy gets killed while the elites stay
back
and look after finances and the girl we left behind (or else they wear
the really neat uniforms and mess around with maps in fancy offices
far underground.)
Rarely does war get the ruling elites where they live.
Let Viet Nam chew up the sons of the lower classes. Let the
Gulf War poison our soldiers. Let the Pearl Harbor attack
come as a surprise to our soldiers and sailors, even the New Deal
administration knows the attack it is coming (and in fact forced
Japan's hand with an oil embargo). But the ruling elites always
knew New York never gets touched -- until this time!

But war can be avoided -- justice can be served that is a higher
justice than "an eye for an eye."

It is not to late-- not even for this proud country that has forsaken
the wisdom of its founding fathers and become entangled in the
politics and economics of the old-world system.

"Let the Jews, who claim to be the chosen race, prove their title by
choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on
earth."
--Mahatma Gandhi, Nov. 26, 1938 (full text below)

But Gandhi had more to say:

From M.K. Gandhi, Towards Lasting Peace, ed. by Anand T. Hingorani
(Chowpatty:
Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, 1956)

(begin quote)

Gandhi on "The Jews," November 26, 1938:

Several letters have been received by me asking me to declare my views
about
the Arab-Jew question in Palestine, and the persecution of Jews in
Germany.
It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views on this
very
difficult question.

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in
South
Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these
friends, I
came to learn much of their age-old persecution. They have been the
untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by
Christians and the treatment of untouchables by hindus is very close.
Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the
justification of
the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships,
therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy
for the
Jews.

But the sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The
cry
for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me.
The
sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the
Jews
have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like
other
peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born
and
where they earn their livelihood?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs
to the
English, or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose
the Jews
on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine to-day cannot be justified
by
any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of
the
last war. Surely, it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the
proud
Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews, partly or wholly,
as
their national home.

The nobler cause would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews
wherever
they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in
precisely the
same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have
no
home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave
the
other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or, do they want a
double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national
home
affords a colourable justification for the German expulsion of the
Jews.

But the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel in
history.
The tyrants of old never went so mad as Hitler seems to have gone. And
he is
doing it with religious zeal. For, he is propounding a new religion of
exclusive and
militant nationalism, in the name of which any inhumanity becomes an
act of
humanity to be rewarded here and hereafter. The crime of an obviously
mad
but intrepid youth is being visited upon his whole race with
unbelievable
ferocity. If there ever could be a justifiable war in the name of and
for
humanity, a war against Germany, to prevent the wanton persecution of
a
whole race, would be completely justified. But I do not believe in any
war.
A discussion of the pros and cons of such a war is, therefore, outside
my
horizon or province.

But if there can be no war against Germany, even for such a crime as
is
being committed against the Jews, surely there can be no alliance with
Germany. How can there be an alliance between a nation which claims to
stand
for justice and democracy and one which is the declared enemy of both?
Or,
is England drifting towards armed dictatorship and all it means.

Germany is showing to the world how efficiently violence can be
worked, when
it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as
humanitarianism. It is also showing how hideous, terrible and
terrifying it
looks in its nakedness.

Can the Jews resist this organized and shameless persecution? Is there
a way
to preserve their self-respect, and not to feel helpless, neglected
and
forlorn? I submit there is. No person who has faith in a living God
need
feel helpless or forlorn. Jehovah of the Jews is a God more personal
than
the God of the Christians, the Mussalmans or the Hindus, though, as a
matter
of fact, in essence, He is common to all and one without a second and
beyond
description. But as the Jews attribute personality to God and believe
that
He rules every action of theirs, they ought not to feel helpless. If I
were
a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would
claim
Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German might, and
challenge
him to shoot me or caste me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be
expelled or
to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this, I should
not wait
for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance, but would have
confidence that in the end the rest would were bound to follow my
example.
If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here
offered, he
or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily
undergone
will bring them an inner strength and joy, which no number of
resolutions of
sympathy passed in the world outside Germany can. Indeed, even if
Britain,
France and America were to declare hostilities against Germany, they
can
bring no inner joy, no inner strength. The calculated violence of
Hitler may
even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first
answer to
the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be
prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined
could be
turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought
deliverance of the race even at the hands of they tyrant. For to the
God
fearing, death has no terror. It is a joyful sleep to be followed by a
waking that would be all the more refreshing for the long sleep.

It is hardly necessary for me to point out that it is easier for the
Jews
than for the Czechs to follow my prescription. And they have in the
Indian
Satyagraha campaign in south Africa an exact parallel. There the
Indians
occupied precisely the same place that the Jews occupy in Germany. The
persecution had also a religious tinge. President Kruger used to say
that
the white Christians were the chosen of God, and Indians were inferior
beings created to serve the Whites. A fundamental clause in the
Transvaal
constitution was that there should be no equality between the Whites
and the
colored races, including Asiatics. There, too, the Indians were
consigned to
ghettos, the same types as those of the Jews in Germany. The Indians,
a mere
handful, resorted to Satyagraha without any backing from the world
outside
or the Indian Government. Indeed, the British officials tried to
dissuade
the Satyagrahis from their contemplated step. World opinion and the
Indian
Government came to their aid after eight years of fighting. And that,
too,
was by the way of diplomatic pressure, not of a threat of war.

But the Jews of Germany can offer Satyagraha under infinitely better
auspices than the Indians of South Africa. The Jews are a compact,
homogenous community in Germany. they are far more gifted than the
Indians
of South Africa. And they have organized world opinion behind them. I
am
convinced that if someone with courage and vision can arise among them
to
lead them in non-violent action, the winter of their despair can in
the
twinkling of an eye be turned into the summer of hope. And what has
to-day
become a degrading man-hunt can be turned into a calm and determined
stand,
offered by un-armed men and women possessing the strength of suffering
given
to them by Jehovah. It will be, then, a truly religious resistance
offered
against the godless fury of dehumanized man. The German Jews will
score a
lasting victory over the German gentiles in the sense that they will
have
converted the latter to an appreciation of human dignity. They will
have
rendered service to fellow-Germans and proved their title to be the
real
Germans as against those who are to-day dragging , however
unknowingly, the
German name into the mire.

And now, a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they
are
going about it the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception
is
not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look
to
the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to
enter it
under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be
preformed
with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine
only
by the good-will of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab
heart.
The same God rules the Arab heart who rules the Jewish heart. They can
offer
Satyagraha in front of the Arabs, and offer themselves to be shot or
thrown
into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them. they
will
find the world opinion in their favor in their religious aspiration.
There
are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only
discard
the help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-sharers with
the
British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them.

I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way
of
non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an
unwarrantable
encroachment upon their country. But according to accepted canons of
right
and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face
of
overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews, who claim to be the chosen race, prove their title by
choosing
the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every
country is their home, including Palestine, not by aggression but by
loving
service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish
Contribution
to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have
done
to enrich the world's literature, art, music, drama, science,
medicine,
agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as
the
outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the
attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation
of God,
instead of being man, who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by
God.
They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution
of
non-violent action.
(end quote) -- Harijan, Nov. 26, 1938
----
(If you translate this to Hebrew or Arabic please send me a copy.)

Seek true justice, justice all the world will
to recognize as justice -- even as the "policeman" admits
and repents of his own sins against mankind -- and avoid
the new disaster of indiscriminate war.

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 18, 2002, 12:53:45 AM4/18/02

Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message news:<97651508.02032...@posting.google.com>...

AngelElf is missed. He argued face to face and he argued
the facts. How decent and clean. How different from ABC
News:

ABC News reports news to America that you and I are blaming
"space aliens" for 911 crashbombing deaths.

Will someone please offer a million dollars to charity if ABC's Dean
Schabner will debate either Michael C. Ruppert or any of the hundred
less well-known investigators familiar with the hard evidence the
corporation media is blackballing? (See below.)

ABC, please note, has yet to mention the fact that a remote-controlled
F-16 was caught on a Pentagon video camera firing a ground-to-air
missile into the Pentagon ahead of its own collision in a horizonal
ground-countour-hugging approach. Yet here it is for you to see (the
tail of the F-16, the plume of missile exhaust, the white heat of the
high-explosive missile blast) -- and the other facts support this as
well (More evidence throughout Peter Bosankoe's site).

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

=============================

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/conspiracy020417.html

What Consensus? Conspiracy Theorist Immune to the Widespread Support
for War on Terror

By Dean Schabner

April 17 - In the days immediately after Sept. 11, while most of
the country was reeling from shock, some people out there were
wondering what really happened.

When the government said evidence pointed to Islamic fundamentalist
terrorists, other voices wondered why investigators weren't looking
in other directions.

Couldn't those supposed Arabs seen on airport security videos
checking onto flights just as easily have been Israelis? Couldn't it
all have been a Jewish plot to trick the United States into a war
against Israel's enemies?

In the months since, more and more evidence has been produced by
investigators in the United States and around the world linking
Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network to the attacks that killed more
than 3,000 people in New York, Washington and western Pennsylvania.

But it hasn't put an end to the conspiracy theories - they have
just changed direction - and new ones keep popping up. And these are
not the usual voices of doubt and dissent calling on the government
to reconsider its foreign policy, or pick its allies more carefully,
or even those who say the U.S. government bears a kind of moral
responsibility for what happened on Sept. 11 because of the mistakes
of the past.

There are voices popping up on Internet Web sites, in chatrooms and
making the rounds in e-mail chains - even some conspiracy theorists
who are packing hundreds of people into lecture halls - saying that
evidence points to some direct level of involvement in the attacks
by the U.S. government. And this at a time when an unprecedented
numbers of Americans have rallied behind the government.

Where's the Plane?

There is no smoking gun in any of the theories, but plenty of
innuendo in schemes that run the gamut. Here is just a small
sampling:

Bush's decision to go ahead with an announced public appearance on
the morning of Sept. 11, after he must have been informed that
planes had been crashed into the World Trade Center, shows he knew
of the attack plans before that morning and knew he would not be a
target for the hijackers.

Photographs of the Pentagon that morning and of the cleanup
afterwards show that no plane crashed into the building because
there was no debris from a jet and the damaged area of the building
was too small - it had to have been a bomb planted inside to destroy
the Office of Naval Intelligence, which would never have accepted
the administration's story about who was behind the attacks in New
York.

Or maybe an unmanned fighter jet, radio controlled and flying at a
low angle, crashed into the Pentagon. (In these scenarios it's never
clear what happened to American Airlines Flight 77 and the 64 people
on board.)

The reason the tapes from the cockpit recorders of the four
hijacked planes have not been released is because the voices they
record are not human, but the voices of aliens.

Even a congresswoman seems bitten by the bug, and wants an
investigation into what President Bush knew and when he knew it -
because so many of his friends have profited so handsomely from the
resulting U.S. actions.

The National Character

Though at first glance it may seem strange that there should still
be people looking for Sept. 11 villains besides bin Laden and his al
Qaeda network, people who have studied conspiracy theories over the
years say it is perfectly natural, and even a fundamental part of
the American character.

"These are shattering experiences, when people's confidence and
faith is shattered and their everyday routine is disrupted," Boston
University sociology professor Daniel Monti said. "This is going to
bring out the best we have to offer from some people, and from
others it's going to bring out the worst."

Some scholars who study conspiracy theories say American ideals,
such as the belief in free speech and an underlying distrust of
power, make this country a natural breeding ground for alternate
readings of momentous events such as the terror attacks of Sept. 11.

"Richard Hofstadter made this argument as long ago as the 1960s [in
his book The Paranoid Style in American Politics]," said Michael
Barkun, a political science professor at the Maxwell School of
Syracuse University and the author of nine books on domestic
terrorism and extreme right-wing groups. "There is a long
conspiracist strain in American history from the Colonial period
on."

"Part of the price we pay for living in a more open society is that
human beings of all stripes and sizes feel they have not only the
right but also the responsibility to speak up," Monti said.
"Sometimes we hear a lot of gibberish and uninformed gossip and
lies. That's part of the price we pay."

American Plots

Conspiracy theories are nothing new, of course. It is hard to think
of a major incident in U.S. history that is not the subject of at
least one alternate reading by people who refuse to accept the
"official version."

And the possibility that the government could be involved in
something that seems to run counter to national interests and the
principles of democracy have been borne out by such incidents as the
Watergate break-in and the Iran-Contra plot.

University of Maine at Machias professor Marcus LiBrizzi sees a
thread of conspiracy theorizing running through American history,
from even before the Salem witch trials. The Puritans came to the
New World with a "world view that they were persecuted by agents of
Satan" in the Catholic church, he said.

Among other early American conspiracy theories was the so-called New
York Plot in 1741, in which fears of a slave uprising led to 34
people, both white and black, being executed, including 16 who were
burned at the stake. The plot was later disproved.

In the 1820s anti-Masonic conspiracy theories gained strength in the
United States when investigative journalist William Morgan
disappeared when he was working on a story about the influence of
Masons in American politics. Masons, who figured prominently among
the Founding Fathers, have continued to be the villains in
conspiracy theories to the present day.

The distrust of government that fuels much of the thinking was not
alien to the framers of the Constitution themselves, LiBrizzi
maintained. He said the concern the framers had about creating
checks and balances and ensuring that power not be centered in one
branch was indicative of a feeling that government was a necessary
evil and had to be limited.

The government itself has even occasionally been snared by
conspiracist thinking, such as during the McCarthy hearings of the
1950s, when communist agents were seen in every corner of American
society.

Old News with a New Spin

These days, conspiracy mongers have a new and potent allies in the
Internet and e-mail, which allow them to grab hold of and instantly
spread any new nuggets that fits their construction.

Michael Ruppert, a former Los Angeles Police Department narcotics
officer, has filled auditoriums in California, Texas, Oregon and
Canada to explain what he sees as evidence that wealthy American
interests were behind Sept. 11 - and he advertises those talks and
the ideas on his Web site.

Then there's a best-selling book published in France that falls into
the no-plane-hit-Pentagon school, and says the story was rigged to
cover up a bombing targeting the new U.S. Naval Command Center that
was carried out by people with classified access to the building.

The author, Thierry Meyssan, who had made a name for himself in
France with exposés of the right-wing National Front, says in
L'Effroyable imposture (The Horrible Fraud) that there was a secret
CIA office in the World Trade Center that was carrying out illegal
activities, and that the Bush administration was in negotiation with
bin Laden on Sept. 11 itself, to work out an agreement to make him a
scapegoat. The book has gotten little coverage in the United States,
but it's worn a deep path in cyberspace.

Similarly, conspiracy theorists noticed quickly last week when U.S.
Rep. Cynthia McKinney, D-Ga., said in an interview on a Berkeley,
Calif., radio station that she wanted an investigation into what the
Bush administration knew about the 9/11 attacks - before they
occurred - suggesting that his friends are getting rich from the
fallout.

Only hours after a story about her suggestion appeared in The
Washington Post, the story was making the rounds in mass mailings on
the Internet.

In one of the mailings, the link to the Post story appears with a
headline that indicated the story went further than it does:
"Mainstream News Article Stating Bush New [sic] Before 9/11." In the
newspaper, the story bears the headline "Democrat Implies Sept. 11
Administration Plot."

McKinney's office did not return a call requesting an interview, but

she issued a statement saying: "I am not aware of any evidence
showing that President Bush or members of his administration have

personally profited from the attacks of 9/11. A complete

investigation might reveal that to be the case."

Whispers in Cyberspace

The way the story was spread shows how the Internet has given a new
vitality to the theories, not only because of the ease it provides
for disseminating ideas, but because of the very way the ideas can
be presented.

"In a way the message becomes separated from the source on the
Internet," said John Pavlik, a Columbia University journalism
professor and executive director of the Conference for New Media.
"You go online and you don't see the people making the Web site, all
you see is the site, and if it's at all well done, it can seem
credible."

"Everything on the Internet looks the same - the site for The New
York Times and the site for some bizarre conspiracy theorist both
look the same," Barkun said. "The differentiation that exists in
print publications between the establishment and these fringe
elements isn't there on the Internet. And the fact of multiple
postings can make something seem more authoritative than if it were
only up there once."

LiBrizzi, who has been teaching a class on conspiracy theories in
American life for three years both in the classrom and through an
online correspondence course, said that working on the Internet
feeds the conspiracist's way of thinking.

"The architecture and the structure of it, with the ability to
hyperlink and cut and paste kind of mirrors conspiracy thinking," he
said. "The medium mirrors the mindset. Everything is
interconnected."

Two Kinds of Thinking

Between the ceaseless churn of cyberspace, and the desire of
conspiracy theorists to construct their elaborate scenarios, it can
be extremely difficult to debunk their creations, and often presents
dilemmas for government officials and journalists.

When left-leaning intellectuals such as Susan Sontag, Edward Said
and Noam Chomsky were critical of U.S. policy in the weeks after
Sept. 11, saying that it fueled understandable anger against America
in developing countries, there were cries of outrage. Even measured
criticism of administration policies and questions about the
progress of the war on terror from Senate leader Tom Daschle,
D-S.D., drew fire as being unpatriotic.

The conspiracy theorists have gone much further than any of those
critics, but except for some snide editorials regarding the French
taste for anti-Americanism and Meyssan's book, they have been
largely ignored by mainstream media.

One journalist who appeared on a televised panel discussion with
Meyssan, Jean-Bernard Cadier, the Washington bureau chief of the
French news and talk radio network, Europe 1, crystallized the
difficulty of facing some of these theorists head-on when he said,
"I had the feeling that the more we tried to go into his arguments,
the more we helped him, because we were not fighting with the same
weapons he was."

Meyssan, for instance, discounts eyewitness accounts of the airliner
hitting the Pentagon, and even says the government may have put
beacons on the World Trade Center towers to ensure that the hijacked
jet would hit them and planted explosives in the buildings so they
would be sure to collapse.

"We tried to stick to some kind of truth and reality, and he
obviously was not," Cadier said. Some of the arguments contained in
conspiracy theories are often hard to dispute, giving them the
kernel they need for resilience, but just as often there is some
leap, a break in the chain of logic from a series of facts to the
conclusion, such as Meyssan ignoring the disappearance of an entire
plane with its passengers and crew.

Other times the thinking seems to work backwards, such as in
arguments that if Bush himself or his associates profited from the
attacks in some way - through increased defense spending or from the
opening of Afghanistan for the construction of a pipeline - then he
or someone in the administration must be to blame for the events of
Sept. 11.

"You have to distinguish between functionalist thinking - looking at
who benefits - as opposed to causal thinking - looking at what led
to an event rather than at who gains from it," LiBrizzi said.

That kind of thinking has fueled questions about possible
conspiracies from his own students. He said such issues as moves by
the Justice Department to gain more power for investigators and
prosecutors and to curtail individual rights, and the request by the
Pentagon for the largest spending increase in two decades have
caused some of his students to begin to question whether the
administration could have had a hand in Sept. 11.

==========

That was hired-mouthpiece disinformation to cover up a mass murder.

Here are some non-CFR news sources that establish what really has been
going on:

Paul Gooding

unread,

Apr 18, 2002, 1:12:28 AM4/18/02

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
news:9ecacd20.02041...@posting.google.com...

> Ange...@AngelFire.com (Angel Elf) wrote in message
news:<97651508.02032...@posting.google.com>...
>
> AngelElf is missed. He argued face to face and he argued
> the facts. How decent and clean. How different from ABC
> News:
>
> ABC News reports news to America that you and I are blaming
> "space aliens" for 911 crashbombing deaths.
>
> Will someone please offer a million dollars to charity if ABC's Dean
> Schabner will debate either Michael C. Ruppert or any of the hundred
> less well-known investigators familiar with the hard evidence the
> corporation media is blackballing? (See below.)
>
> ABC, please note, has yet to mention the fact that a remote-controlled
> F-16 was caught on a Pentagon video camera firing a ground-to-air
> missile into the Pentagon ahead of its own collision in a horizonal
> ground-countour-hugging approach. Yet here it is for you to see (the
> tail of the F-16, the plume of missile exhaust, the white heat of the
> high-explosive missile blast) -- and the other facts support this as
> well (More evidence throughout Peter Bosankoe's site).
>
> http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Not what it shows at all. It shows an airplane, in silhouette (the sun
coming from the left side of the frame, and
the airplane in the shadow of the building) approaching at an angle to the
building face, some part of the airplane
brushing the ground and leaving a plume of smoke, or perhaps fuel, behind
it, then striking the face of the building.
Or, the plume could be dust thrown up by the exhaust of the engine(s),
presumably operating at considerable
power, the airplane's engines being inches, or maybe a foot or two, above
the ground.

Nice try, though.

John Doe

unread,

Apr 18, 2002, 1:37:54 AM4/18/02

Dick,

How did the "bad, rich white men" fit 64 people onto a single F-16? If the
passengers on flight 77 were not killed in the explosion at the Pentagon,
how and where were they killed?

I recall your posting a story that claimed the WTC jets were radio
controlled. Why not use the same technology on the Pentagon? Doing so
would solve all sorts of related problems.

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
news:9ecacd20.02041...@posting.google.com...

Race is Real

unread,

Apr 18, 2002, 11:10:11 AM4/18/02

9-11 is about one-sided US policy in support of Israel, a nation founded on
the belief that non-Jews are "less than human."

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
news:9ecacd20.02041...@posting.google.com...

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.econ,uk.politics.economics
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:27 AM
> Subject: Zionist media hijacking the US to crash us into Islam? Seek
> measured justice, not indiscriminate war.
>
> Terror, by definition, is loss of reason.

[Race is Real]

WHAT IS A JEW?

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish
blood and the blood of a goy (gentile; non-Jew) are not the
same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).

Hebrews are African in Origin

Semitic languages are the languages of populations native to Africa and
Asia, NOT Europe. Semitic languages in turn belong to a larger family of
languages, the Afroasiatic. Afroasiatic has 5 branches -- Kushitic,
Egyptian, Berber, Chadic, and Semitic. All these branches, except Semitic,
are found only in Africa. This makes it seem likely that the Afroasiatic
languages originated in Africa and then spread to the Asian continent. The
Chadic branch is by far the largest subfamily, containing 150 African
tongues and spanning a vast area of West Africa, including Nigeria and
the Cameroons. Linguist Joseph H. Greenberg deduced that the original
homeland of Afroasiatic speakers appears to be somewhere in Ethiopia.
(<a
href="http://www.colorq.org/Bible/Historical_Background/Afroasiatic.htm">mor
e...</a>)

From the Talmud
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be
killed.

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages
owed him for work.

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite
there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an
Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it
does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).

Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an
old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to
a Cuthean..."

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be
no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and
God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a
Gentile.

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from
birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city
where he is not known and do the evil there.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer
every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

Gittin 57b. (Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in
the city of Bethar.)

Gittin 58a. (Claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in
scrolls and burned alive by the Romans.)

Jewish Hatred For Self and World
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The following are more examples of traditional Jewish self-identity from a
collection of Yiddish folk sayings, [KUMOVE, S., 1985] further confirming
certain troubling aspects of collective Jewish identity:

* "One need never suspect a Jew -- he surely is a thief." [p. 139]
* "It's good to do business with a thief." [p. 233]
* "If you steal -- you'll have." [p. 233]
* "What is smaller than a mouse may be carried from a house." [p. 233]
* "Petty thieves are hanged, major thieves are pardoned." [p. 233]
* "A thief gives handsome presents." [p. 230]
* "Before a thief goes stealing, he also prays to God." [p. 231]
* "Better with a hometown thief than a strange rabbi." [p. 231]
* "Thieve and rob if you must but be honorable." [p. 232]
* "God protect us from Gentile hands and Jewish tongues." [p. 196]
* "Live among Jews, do business among the Goyim." [p. 143]
* "If you steal enough eggs, you can also become rich." [p. 249]
* "A fool gives and a clever person takes." [p. 106]
* "Always take -- if you give me, I'll go away, if not, I'll stay." [p.
106]
* "Always take!" [p. 106]
* "The goy is treyf [forbidden] but his money is kosher
[acceptable]." [p. 126]
* "Offer a Jew a ride and he throws you out of your own wagon." [p. 45]
* "A sense of justice we want others to have." [p. 127]
* "Money rules the world." [p. 179]
* "Money is the best soap -- it removes the greatest stain. (p. 179)
* "Gold shines out of the mud." [p. 179]
* "Gold has a dirty origin but is nevertheless treated with honor. [p.
180]
* "The world stands on three things: on money, on money, and money."
[p. 180] [All from KUMOVE, 1985]

The following list from international folklore is these days considered to
be historically baseless, and irrationally "anti-Semitic":

* "A real Jew will never pause to eat till he has cheated you. (Serbian)
* "The Jew cheats even when praying." (Czech)
* "A real Jew will get gold out of straw." (Spanish)
* "So many Jews, so many thieves." (German)
* "A bankrupt Jew searches his own accounts." (Greek)
* "Bargain like a Jew but pay like a Christian." (Polish)
* "A Jewish miser will reject nothing more than having to part with his
foreskin." (Russian)
* "A Jewish oath, a clear night, and women's tears are not worth a mite.
(Venetian)
* "A Jew, if he cheats a Moslem, is happy that day." (Moroccan)
* "Mammon [money] is the God of the Jews." (Hungarian)
[ROBACK, p. 186-204]

"Even in the Yiddish language [the common language of immigrant Jews
from central and eastern Europe, where more Jews lived, til Hitler, than
any other place in the world] ... popular usage distinguished between
Jews and non-Jews by employing different verbs to describe the behavior.
Reserved for gentiles are words otherwise used in reference to animals:
e.g., Jews eat (essen), but goyim eat like pigs (fressen); Jews die
(starben), but goyim die like dogs (pagern); Jews take a drink (trinken),
but goyim drink like sots (soifen)." [KRAMER, p. 107]
(<a href="http://jewishtribalreview.org/ethics.htm">see more</a>)

"If we look at sensitive departments in the present government like
the defense department or the state department, or sensitive security
departments like the CIA and others, we find that Jews have the first
word in the American government, which is how they use America to
carry out their plans in the world and especially the Muslim world. The
presence of Americans in the Holy Land supports the Jews and gives them
a safe back. The American government, in a time where there are millions
of Americans living on the street and those living below the standard of
living and below the poverty line, we find the American government
turning toward helping Israel in occupying our land and building
settlements in the Holy Land." - Osama bin Laden

[~A Defector Speaks~]

"A deeper, but still unsatisfactory insight came from the pen of Meron
Benvenisti writing for Haaretz (15 July). His opinions deserve to be
quoted at length. After noting that 'the Jewish American community'
bears no less responsibility than anybody else for 'the status quo'
in the Territories, Benvenisti proceeds to describe this community's
ways of influencing US policies. He recalls that 'when the [US] mission
headed by Denis Ross came to Jerusalem, a Hebrew paper [Maariv] described
it as "the mission of four Jews" and gloated with pride while talking
about the Jewish and even Israeli roots of all its members.' Other papers
did likewise. The 'Israeli roots' of those US diplomats comprising what
went under the name of a 'Peace mission' included the fact that a son
of one of them was said to be studying in a Hesder Yeshiva, to receive
military training there. He was also said to be a sympathizer of Gush
Emunim and was awaiting the opportunity to serve in the Israeli Army
in the Territories. Benvenisti's comment is that 'the ethnic origin of
American diplomats sent here to promote peace may be irrelevant, but
it is hard to ignore the fact that manipulation of the peace process
was entrusted by the US in the first place to American Jews, and that
at least one member of the State Department team was selected for the
task because he represented the views of American Jewish establishment.
The tremendous influence of the Jewish establishment upon the Clinton
administration found its clearest manifestation in redefining the
"occupied territories" as "territories in dispute". The Palestinians
are understandably angry. But lest they be accused of anti-Semitism,
they cannot, God forbid, talk about Clinton's "Jewish connection".
- Israel Shahak, "Open Secrets" (<a
href="http://www.abbc.com/shahak/4jews.htm">more...</a>)

In his book "Mein Leben als deutscher Jude" ("My Life as a German Jew"),
Dr. Nahum Goldmann describes the "phenomenal rise of German Jewry" as
follows:

"German Jewry, which found its temporary end during the Nazi period, was
one of the most interesting and for modern Jewish history most influential
centers of European Jewry. During the era of emancipation, i.e. in the
second half of the nineteenth and in the early twentieth century, it had
experienced a meteoric rise.... It had fully participated in the rapid
industrial rise of Imperial Germany, made a substantial contribution
to it and acquired a renowned position in German economic life. Seen
from the economic point of view, no Jewish minority in any other country,
not even that in America could possibly compete with the German Jews. They
were involved in large scale banking, a situation unparallelled elsewhere,
and, by way of high finance, they had also penetrated German industry. A
considerable portion of the wholesale trade was Jewish. They controlled
even such branches of industry which is in general not in Jewish hands.
Examples are shipping or the electrical industry, and names such as Ballin
and Rathenau do confirm this statement. I hardly know of any other branch
of emancipated Jewry in Europe or the American continent that was as
deeply rooted in the general economy as was German Jewry. American Jews
of today are absolutely as well as relatively richer than the German Jews
were at the time, it is true, but even in America with its unlimited
possibilities the Jews have not succeeded in penetrating into the central
spheres of industry (steel, iron, heavy industry, high finance, shipping),
as was the case in Germany.
Their position in the intellectual life of the country was equally unique.
In literature, they were represented by illustrious names. The theatre was
largely in their hands. The daily press, above all its internationally
influential sector, was essentually owned by Jews or controlled by them.
As paradoxical as this may sound today, after the Hitler era, I have no
hesitation to say that hardly any section of the Jewish people has made
such extensive use of the emancipation offered to them in the nineteenth
century as the German Jews! In short, the history of the Jews in Germany
from 1870 to 1933 is probably the most glorious rise that has ever been
achieved by any branch of the Jewish people". (p. 116)

"The majority of the German Jews were never fully assimilated and were much
more Jewish than the Jews in other West European countries". (p.120)

"My work in those years was essentially of a propagandistic nature. I was
too young and unknown to play a part in the leading circles of Germany, let
alone of world Zionism, which was partially controlled from Berlin". (p.
121)
(<a
href="http://www.radioislam.net/islam/english/jewishp/germany/goldmann.htm">
more...</a>)

Ginsburgh is correctly described in that interview as an important leader
of the Lubavitch Hassidic sect. Let me quote some of Ginsburgh's views
from that interview. "Citing explicit instructions he
says he received from the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Ginsburgh has
also strongly defended Jewish revenge attacks on Arabs, at least
after-the-fact. Whether he would tell a Jew to engage in in such a
random attacks beforehand 'is a different story', Rabbi Ginsburgh said.
But after such an attack took place in response to an Arab provocation,
'You can't even hint it was a bad thing'. Among other things, he
explained, the jurisdiction of an Israeli court in such a case is
illegitimate because 'Legally, if a Jew does kill a non-Jew, he's not
called a murderer. He didn't transgress the Sixth Commandment: Thou
Shall not murder. This applies only to Jews killing Jews. Therefore [in
a Jewish state] his punishment is given over to heaven' rather than to a
secular court". Let me emphasize the key word in this morally repulsive
passage is "random", and that Halacha as correctly enunciated by
Ginsburgh permits Jews to kill not only Arabs but non Jews in general at
random, if other non Jews "made a provocation". In other words, Halacha
allows Jews to lynch non Jews.
(<a href="http://www.hoffman-info.com/wash.html">more...</a>)

From the Talmud (Return)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Jews refer to the remainder of Earth's inhabitants, the non-Jewish
peoples, as "Gentiles", "Goyim". Let's see what the Jewish Talmud
teaches the Jews concerning the non-Jewish majority, i.e. those who
are not part of Jahve's "Chosen People":

Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud

· "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not
humans. They are beasts." Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

· "The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to
honor the dog more than the non-Jew." Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30.

· "Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in
human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal.
Therefore he will be served by animals in human form". Midrasch Talpioth,
p. 255, Warsaw 1855

· "A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal".
Coschen hamischpat 405.

· "The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called
pigs".
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b.

· "Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the
Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human". Schene luchoth
haberith, p. 250 b.

· "If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog".
Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b.

· "If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should
not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will
replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died". Jore
dea 377, 1.

· "Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between
animals". Talmud Sanhedrin 74b.

· "It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile".
Sepher ikkarim III c 25.

· "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The
Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah". Coschen
hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5.

· "A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands".
Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b.

· "Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is
doing the same as making a sacrifice to God". Talmud: Bammidber
raba c 21 & Jalkut 772.

In Berakoth 58a the Talmud uses Ezekiel 23:20 as proof of the sub-human
status of gentiles. It also teaches that anyone (even a Jewish man) who
reveals this Talmudic teaching about non-Jews deserves death, since
revealing it makes Gentiles wrathful and causes the repression of Judaism.

(<a href="http://palestiniancommunity.com/articles/Talmud.html">more...</a>)

[~Links~]

European Prehistory News
http://www.newnation.org/NNN-prehistory.html

Racial Nationalist Library
http://members.internettrash.com/library/

Who Were the First Americans?
http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/mar02/24849.asp

Israel Develops Racial-Genetic Warfare
http://twf.org/News/Y1998/19981126-ArabGerm.html

Sexual Disease Transmission by Race
http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/STD/STDD017.PCW.html

Attack on U.S. Liberty was Perpetrated by Israel
http://www.ussliberty.org/

Bolshevism from Moses to Lenin
http://www.natvan.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=618

No One is Equal
http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/hum_diff.html

Politically Correct Racism
http://www.ddc.net/ygg/rb/index.htm

Who Controls the Media?
http://www.natvan.com/who-rules-america/

Before Race was A "Bad" Topic
http://www.amren.com/baker.htm

Profile of an Anti-Racist
http://www.deeswatch.com/who.html

Jewish Atrocities After WWII
http://www.johnsack.com/dictionary_of_literary_biography_an_eye_for_an_eye.h
tm

[Race is Real]
"The Jew/Zionist/Israel File"

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 18, 2002, 12:14:43 PM4/18/02

"John Doe" <m1...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<SYsv8.28798$V44.488@rwcrnsc53>...

> Dick,
>
> How did the "bad, rich white men" fit 64 people onto a single F-16? If the
> passengers on flight 77 were not killed in the explosion at the Pentagon,
> how and where were they killed?

I realize that there are too many back postings to this thread for you
to have read. What is known is that no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon.
The F-16 captured in the Pentagon video is without cocpit canopy,
indicating that a pilot ejected somewhere before the aircraft entered
its final attack phase under remote control and using contour-hugging
guidance systems featured on the F-16.

I have working hypotheses of what might have happened to the Boeing --
but these are just possibilities to help in looking for clues. These
are 1) it was flown out to see and is now lying in the deep Atlantic
trench; 2) it was flown to some airport with a remote hanger
temporarily used by of the perpetrators
(making the passengers possibly kidnap victims instead of murder
victims.
We live in a time when human beings can be smuggled around the world
easily.
But the guilt of the Administration caught in the lie about the Boeing
hitting the Pentagon is established, whether or not we ever learn what
happened to Boeing and its passengers. (Also note, that one of those
listed as hijackers, has been found alive in Lebenon and, I think,
others are known to be alive as well.

At any rate, for newcomers -- here is a model "letter to editors"
that will refresh you on what is known about the Pentagon frame-up and
cover-up:

April 18, 2002

Letter to the Editor

Dear Editor,

Before you add your own scoffings at Rep. Cynthia McKinney's
call for a Congressional investigation into evidence of prior
knowledge
of the attack within the administration, I suggest you look at this
evidence of both prior knowledge and complicity in the Pentagon
attack on September 11, 2001.

Here is the direct visual evidence supplied by the D.o.D. that the
Pentagon was attacked not by a crashbombing Boeing 757, but by
a remotely-controlled F-16 Falcon that approached horizonally at
20 feet using automatic ground-countour-hugging guidance and, no
more than two seconds before its own impact also fired an air-to-
ground missile into the Pentagon ahead of its own collision.

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Pay close attention to 1) the F-16 silhouette; 2) the white
plume of the missile being fired; 3) the super-white-hot initial blast
characteristic of the high-explosives of a ground to air missile and
not
of burning jet or helicopter fuel --

David Bosankoe of the U.K. has enlarged a section
of the clip of the Pentagon attack event taken by
security video camera and released by the Department
of Defense, but he has also gathered other supporting
evidence that you may review at:

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/

In addition, far ranging debate on this topic has been
conducted in the uk.politics.crime Usenet newsgroup,
which you may access at http://groups.google.com/
and typing in uk.politics.crime.

After close examination I am convinced that the
clip does supports neither the official story of a Boeing
757 hitting the building, nor the "French "where's the plane?"
site story that "no plane at all" was involved in the deadly
explosions.

It is also significant that the one pilot who claimed to have
witnessed
a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon also claimed that the airliner "dived"
into the side of the building --and so by the D.o.D.'s own video
he is discredited.

Here are two letters relevant to this topic, the first dealing with
the
Pentagon attack deception and the second in reply to the Atlanta
Journal-Constitution's attack on Rep. Cynthia McKinney's after her
call for
an investigation into the events of September 11.

Dick Eastman
223 S. 64th Ave.
Yakima, Washington 98908
(509) 965-4893

Letter #1:

Dear Mr McNicoll,

A colleague of mine in Australia faxed to me the paragraph
in your column in The Australian of April 5, 2002 (p.11).
For the benefit of other readers of this message, which will
soon be appearing on my Serendipity website, I quote the
first half of your paragraph:

Big bang theory

FURTHER to the conspiracy theory -- that no aircraft hit
the Pentagon last September -- which is being expounded
by French author Thierry Meyssan in his book 'The Frightening
Fraud'. Should you wish to see some of the pictures of the
Pentagon attack which have a large number of French citizens
no longer believing the official US government story, you can
access them online. ...

by the more direct URL:
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

It should be noted that this site does not say that no aircraft
hit the Pentagon. It could be taken to suggest that the damage
was caused by a truck bomb, but a careful inspection will reveal
that the site suggests only that the damage was NOT caused
by a Boeing 757.

The thesis by the French author is either mistaken, or it is another
instance of what Carol Valentine has called "the fake opposition"
(see http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wot/anti-war.htm).

As one commentator, Dick Eastman, puts it:

>The French "no-plane" thesis is disinformation --
>it is the sending in of a buffoon to refute a clown.

>It's an old trick -- if the "official" version is absurd
>and readily dismissed by simple direct inspection of
>physical evidence -- then the deception can only be
>defended by "puffing" a counter explanation that is even
>more absurd.

Or in other words, an alternative explanation is presented
which purports to deny the truth of the official story, but
the alternative is either grossly implausible or is easily refuted
by reference to the evidence. The discrediting of the alternative
is then used to support the official version.

The problem with Meyssan's thesis is that a plane actually did
hit the Pentagon -- but it wasn't a Boeing 757. As Dick Eastman
has pointed out, what actually happened is that a (probably remotely
controlled) F-16 fighter jet flew into the Pentagon, hitting it
a moment after it released a missile. You can see this in the
images released by the Pentagon --
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

Frame 1: The outline of a fighter jet, probably an F-16,
is visible toward the right of the picture.
A larger version of this frame can be viewed at
http://www.thepowerhour.com/pentgallery/images/pentani.jpg

Frame 2: A huge, white-hot, fireball erupts. Such an
intensely hot fireball would not result from the ignition
of jet fuel but would result from the detonation of a
missile carrying a high-explosive warhead.

Frames 3, 4 and 5: Here you see the red fireball resulting
from the impact of the jet.

The damage to the Pentagon is not consistent with an impact
by a 757 Boeing jetliner but is consistent with the explosion
of a missile plus the impact of an F-16 jet.

So if it was an F-16 jet which hit the Pentagon, what happened
to AA Flight 77, the Boeing jet which, according to the official
story, hit the Pentagon? And what happened to the passengers
on board this jet?

The answer has been given by an informant of Carol Valentine
(see http://www.public-action.com/911/bumble.html), from which
we may construct the following account (in part) of what happened
on September 11th:

1. Some time after Flight 77 takes off its pilots are informed
that the U.S. is under attack and that they are to shut
down their transponder and land their plane at the nearest
military base (directions to the base are given). The pilots
obey this order.

2. The Twin Towers are hit by planes (but not AA Flight 11
or UA Flight 175, which are also diverted to the same
military base) and shortly after are brought down in
a controlled demolition by means as yet undetermined, but
possibly by explosives within the buildings.

3. An F-16, probably remotely controlled, approaches the
Pentagon at ground level, fires a missile, and a split-second
later crashes into the building.

4. The official (pre-written) story of a simultaneous hijacking
of four Boeing passenger jets by Arab terrorists acting under orders
from Osama bin Laden is released to the U.S. mainstream media
and promoted non-stop by the media whores.

5. The passengers from AA Flight 77, AA Flight 11 and UA Flight 175
are herded onto UA Flight 175, which (as with the other three flights)
has been ordered to land at the same military base.

6. UA Flight 175 takes off from the military base and flies toward
Washington. It is shot down by a U.S. Air Force fighter jet over
Pennsylvania. All passengers and crew from all four "hijacked" planes
(other than those who are part of the operation) are killed.

Thus those who planned and carried out the September 11th attacks
not only caused the deaths of about 3,000 people in the Twin Towers
and a few hundred military personnel at the Pentagon, but also
deliberately murdered about 200 people who were on board the four
Boeing jetliners to eliminate witnesses to their "high crimes".
We may reasonably guess at who they are (George W. Bush, Dick Cheney
and Donald Rumsfeld come to mind). If the identities of the
perpetrators
are ever established they know they will go before a firing squad.
Therefore we can be sure that (unless they are removed from their
present positions of influence) they will do whatever they deem
necessary
to escape detection, even if this means causing the deaths of yet more
thousands of American citizens in "terrorist" attacks.

Regards,
Peter Meyer

Letter #2:

To the Editor of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

My Opinion on the Way You are Handling the McKinney Case

by Paul Walker

I would appreciate it very much if you would cease the
politically-motivated
dirt-digging and attacks on Ms McKinney's character and instead do an
objective jounalistic investigation into the claims that she has put
forward. No matter what her motives may be, the facts are the facts.

Fact: Carlyle Group directly benefits from an eternal Orwellian war
against
the "Evil Ones".

Fact: The bin Ladins and the Bushes have been in bed finacially raking
in
hundreds of millions together on big oil, construction and defense
contracts
for decades.

Fact: The "War on Terrorism" has been planned for several years in the
back
rooms of the Council on Foreign Relations as a pretext for control of
the
Caspian Basin oil reserves (see Brzezinski, Grand Chessboard).

Fact: The CIA supervises the Pakistani ISI intelligence who are
instrumental
in funding and training terrorists all over the Eurasia and the Middle
East.

Fact: Clinton had numerous opportunities to nail bin Ladin and refused
to do
it.

Fact: Bin Ladin was, and still is a CIA-ISI pointman/assett.

Fact: The CIA put the murderous Taliban into power (a specialty of
theirs)
in 1996 and funded them (and bin Ladin) right up through last summer.

Fact: The CIA met with bin Ladin in July in Dubai (Le Figaro)

Fact: The US government had not only prior knowledge of the attacks of
September 11th, but deliberately created all the necessary conditions
for it
to happen. For historical precedents see, National Security Archives
for the
Operation Northwoods document and Day of Deceit by Robert Stinnet.

Fact: The media is chockfull of gutless, spineless shills, operative
minions, and cheerleeding propagandists who are lying to the people,
complicit in the attacks on both the WTC and on our Constitutional
rights
and couldn't whip up an honest investigative piece to save their
souls.

So get your facts straight and start telling the truth if you have any
patriotism, humanity, guts or integrity left.

I challenge any of you jounalist shills out there to refute any of the
points I have made.

Paul Walker
Santa Barbara, CA
-----

Finally, I recommend these 11 September frame-up criminal
investigation
sites:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm

Paul Gooding

unread,

Apr 18, 2002, 3:11:22 PM4/18/02

> I realize that there are too many back postings to this thread for you
> to have read. What is known is that no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon.

"Known"? Horseshit. Nothing of the sort is known, or even worthy of
speculation.

> The F-16 captured in the Pentagon video is without cocpit canopy,

The airplane has no canpoy because it is not an F-16, you idiot.

> I have working hypotheses of what might have happened to the Boeing --

Who gives a crap what your hypothesis is?

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 24, 2002, 12:50:32 AM4/24/02

chudh <chud...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3CA1DE...@worldnet.att.net>...
> Glad you got this back on track!

On track and into the station.

Now we know.

Flight 77 landed at Ronald Reagan National Airport 2 miles from
Pentagon whewre it was received by up to 70 D.C. airport workers w.
false security badges who have just been deported by Mr. Ashcroft.

What happened to Flight 77? After a showy higher altitude approach to
the Pentagon as the F-16 flew in at tree-top level for the actual kill
-- Flight 77 simply crossed the Jefferson Davis Highway across the
part to the George Washington Memorial Parkway to Reagon National
Airport on the Potomac -- less than two miles from the attack point --
where it landed and taxied to an undisclosed hanger where it was met
by some of the 100 persons, many with criminal records and foreign
citizenship, who obtained false airport security badges credentials
giving them free access to sensitive airport areas, like ramps, gates,
hangers and aircraft.

Details:

http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/pent.html

Also Reuters:

" More than 70 have been deported or are awaiting
deportation proceedings, authorities said."

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More than 100 employees at two major
Washington-area airports have been arrested on fraud charges in
obtaining restricted airport security badges, government sources said
on Tuesday.

The arrests will be announced by Attorney General John Ashcroft later
in the
day in Alexandria, Virginia, officials said.

The arrests marked a continuing post Sept. 11 crackdown by U.S. law
enforcement and transportation authorities on airport security lapses.

Many of the charges -- including those being brought against workers
at
Washington's Ronald Reagan National Airport and Dulles International
Airport
outside the capital -- involve allegations that suspects violated
immigration and Social Security laws.

Also, the government alleges that many arrested on Tuesday in the
greater
Washington area lied about criminal records while applying for
security
badges, the sources said.

It was unclear initially what jobs those employees performed.

As of last week, more than 250 people had been arrested at 11 U.S.
airports
on charges they fraudulently obtained credentials for access to
sensitive
airport areas, like ramps, gates and aircraft.

Roughly half have pleaded guilty or have plea agreements pending,
authorities said. More than 70 have been deported or are awaiting
deportation proceedings, authorities said.
==========

I recommend these 11 September frame-up criminal investigation sites:

http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/pent.html

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert
www.bighula.com/copvcia/ (mirror of above)

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk

http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/

http://www.israelshamir.net

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 24, 2002, 12:53:03 AM4/24/02

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 24, 2002, 1:00:31 PM4/24/02

http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/pent.html

> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More than 100 employees at two major
> Washington-area airports have been arrested on fraud charges in
> obtaining restricted airport security badges, government
> sources said on Tuesday.

<jump>

> Many of the charges -- including those being brought

> against workers atWashington's Ronald Reagan National

> Airport and Dulles International Airport outside the
> capital -- involve allegations that suspects violated
> immigration and Social Security laws.
>
> Also, the government alleges that many arrested on
> Tuesday in the greater Washington area lied about
> criminal records while applying for security badges,
> the sources said.
>
> It was unclear initially what jobs those employees performed.

[Where they janitors and not air traffic controllers and soft-
> ware managers?]
<jump>

> Roughly half have pleaded guilty or have plea
> agreements pending, authorities said. More than 70
> have been deported or are awaiting deportation
> proceedings, authorities said.
> ==========

Ever see an American "cowboy western" where the
outlaws disguise themselves as Indians when they
commit their crimes to terrorize settlers off their land
so they can buy it up cheap and profit from their
inside information that a railroad is going to be
built there? And it was always the perpetrators
who, back in town and in their respectable clothes
agitated the town exhorting "The only good Injun
is a dead Injun!" The Lone Ranger was never
fooled. What about us?

=====================

Here is a statement by a first-hand witness to
the following event:

Condolezza Rice, Bush's National Security Advisor,
was in Houston to give a speech in March of 2000.
This was prior to Bush assuming the Presidency and
her assuming her new position in his administration.
She had worked under Bush Senior as head of Russian
and East European Affairs. Her words were
most prophetic. She said, and these are exact quotes:

"We need a common enemy to unite us."

"We need a new threat as a marker to where
we will lead."

"Seperation of powers is a problem for foreign
policy."

These statements were not in response to questions
but were in the body of her speech.

Afterwards I asked about about America losing it's
moral authority which, I believe, was the greatest
contributing factor in our victory in the Cold
War. This led to the destruction of the Soviet Union
which our military might could not do. She was visibly
angered and disturbed by my comments and simply
retorted. "We have other means of asserting our authority".
Meaning, of course, military might and deception.

It is clear to me that the September 11 crashbombing
fit perfectly into her idea of what "we need", what Bush
wants. Bush has, to date, been the greatest benefactor
of the events of September 11 and for the foreseeable
future will continue to be.
==================

Another letter from the same man

The best lead on who was behind this was the
puts purchased (stock option contracts betting the
price will fall). On one of the cable shows on finance
a analysist said the number of puts in United Airlines,
American Airlines (only in the airlines used by the
hijackers) and businesses in the WTC that were going
to be substantially impacted, was 90 times the number
of puts purchase on a daily average THE DAY BEFORE
THE ATTACK and this was WORLDWIDE purchases.
He gave some examples of a put purchased for $375,000
that was worth $2.4 million the day after the attack. Who
would gamble that much without insider knowledge? The
numbers of puts purchased, in addition to the size of the
investments, indicate that an extremely large number of
people, possibly thousands, knew the exact day of the
attack, the exact target, and the exact means.

The "money trail" was a big story for a day and then
very suddenly no further mention has been made of it.
It was used just long enough to secure the seizure of
money from targeted groups and additions to the
anti-terrorist legislation.

I look forward to seeing the information I am providing
you included in your posts

One more thing I picked up on the news. Some bigwig in
the military, I don't remember his name, was being
interviewed on the 17th day following the attack. He was
asked "when can we expect some action in Afganistan".
His reply "The buildup there has been going on for several
weeks so it could be very soon." 17 days is a little short
of "several weeks". The quick response indicates the buildup
was beginning even before the attack took place.

A thought I had - If you know, or suspect, you are going
to be attacked, it might be strategic to stage an attack
on yourself so you can be ready with the response. Thus
catching your enemy off-guard and unprepared. When
comparing this operation with the attack on WTC in 1993
it appears far too sophisticated and effective for the type
of group it is being blamed on. It would seem that Some
intellegence would have been picked up on an operation
of this size. It could be that some in the intellegence
community allowed, or even assisted, in it happening for
the strategic purposes of those they answer to.

If not guilty for the actual attack there are those in the
US governmnet that are guilty of knowing about it and
letting, if not aiding and abetting, in making it happen.
It is interesting to note how little criticizm there
has been of the CIA, FBI, or the intellegence community
for letting this happen. Rather they have been rewarded
with bigger budgets and more power.

What people need to continue to ask themselves is not
just "who had motive" but WHO BENEFITED THE MOST.
(end of letter)

===============

And yet another letter, merely to invite the jury to recall
to mind things they have seen and heard and to sift them
for clues:
---
>I read your article on the rense site. The person who
sent you some notes on Connie Rice, did not have the
fortune of seeing Rumsfield on the 9th of ept in an interview
on Fox News like I did. it was a late Sunday afternoon
or early evening, The interview was with brit hume I am
pretty sure, and Rumsfield was unusually happy about the
coming week where his defense budget cuts would be
reversed, in fact he was inferring that his budget would be
increased by a large % when congress would come to
understand how important defense was to national security.
It was such an interesting interview I made my wife sit down
and watch it which is very unusual because like most
women, she is not into the global or national events...and
my vibes from it were not good. That sept 11 evening
interview with the pentagon at 9 pm had all the big wigs on,
again Rumsfield was the point man for the press
conference. after his speech the first question taken from a
reporter was right to Rumsfield and he asked him if intelligence
or anyone high up in the government had any knowledge
of the events. Rumsfield looked like he got punched in the
stomach, looked down and away and said " I cant answer any
questions of a national security issue" I was like what heck,
total destruction and this guy looks away as guilty as sin
and wont answer the reporters question. if you get your
hands on the video footage of the press conf, its a real eye
opener. Bottom line, they knew, what other reason was
Pres Bush out of DC for over a month, and "on vacation
finding peace and quiet. " More crap. just how stupid do
they think we are. Today my wife showed me a picture
of a 31 year old fire man she went to school with and is
listed as "missing". They can lie all they want, all you have
to do is follow the "wacko" conspiarcy writings for the last
10-20 years to see where we are headed next.
(end of letter)

========

Now we know.

Flight 77 landed at Ronald Reagan National Airport 2 miles from Pentagon
whewre it was received by up to 70 D.C. airport workers w. false security
badges who have just been deported by Mr. Ashcroft.

What happened to Flight 77? After a showy higher altitude approach to the
Pentagon as the F-16 flew in at tree-top level for the actual kill -- Flight
77 simply crossed the Jefferson Davis Highway across the part to the George
Washington Memorial Parkway to Reagon National Airport on the Potomac --
less than two miles from the attack point -- where it landed and taxied to
an undisclosed hanger where it was met by some of the 100 persons, many with
criminal records and foreign citizenship, who obtained false airport
security badges credentials giving them free access to sensitive airport
areas, like ramps, gates, hangers and aircraft.

Details:

http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/pent.html

==============
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves
me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country
... corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption
in high places will follow, and the money power of the country
will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices
of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the
Republic is destroyed."
--Lincoln

http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/pent.html
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert
www.bighula.com/copvcia/ (mirror of above)
http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk
http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.israelshamir.net
http://www.narconews.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/
http://www.infowars.com/resources.html
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/

http://www.truthout.com

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 25, 2002, 9:38:40 PM4/25/02

EXCERPTED: After the attack on the first tower, which had been
reported by Chief Pfeiffer and other officials to higher authorities
as a DELIBERATE AND HOSTILE ATTACK, the occupants of tower two were in
the process of being evacuated. But THEN, obviously issuing from some
diabolical source, word was spread throughout tower two's
communications system that there was NO FURTHER DANGER and that ALL
OCCUPANTS should return to their offices!

The Bigger Picture

3.30.02
Major 9.11 Oddities Revealed in Firehouse Documentary

On March 11, 6 months after the September 11 destruction of the World
Trade Center, CBS aired a film consisting largely of documentary
footage on the firefighters of the FDNY's Engine 7, Ladder 1. Engine
7's
firehouse is just several blocks from the WTC.

The footage was taken by a team of two French brothers, Jules and
Gedeon Naudet, who'd begun their documentary on the life and times of
these particular firemen some days before.

The firefighters of Engine 7 -- all of whom ended up at ground zero on
September 11 -- by incredible grace, and maybe luck, all survived and
lived to see another day... And many of their days since September 11
have been spent searching for the bodies of their lost comrades and
the many, many other victims at ground zero.

Truly significant -- indeed crucial -- oddities, anomalies and
flagrantly irreconcilable contradictions with the "official" "version"
of the staggering WTC devastation are brought forth in this film,
which serve to further prove the UTTER FALSITY of the federal
government/Bush administration/mass media's threadbare official lies
on nearly every single important aspect of this tremendous, horrific
tragedy.

** First and foremost:
Right off the bat, we smell something fishy in the fact that on
September 11 at 8:30 AM Engine 7 -- the fire station closest to the
World Trade Center -- received what turned out to be a spurious report
of an "odor of gas" about a half-mile AWAY from the WTC to the north.

This potentially serious but false report served to take the 7th
Battalion's chief Joe Pfeiffer and a crew TRAINED in dealing with
explosive/incendiary conditions AWAY from the Trade Center location...
at the EXACT TIME the first plane impacted the tower.

However: nearly every member of this crew including filmmaker Jules
Naudet, who filmed it, watched from the street with horrifying clarity
at 8:46 as the first plane made a dead-on beeline for WTC tower one
and smacked right into it.

** Second:
Ranking NYC fire official Chief Pfeiffer notified higher authorities
WITHIN MOMENTS of the plane's impact that the incident was CLEARLY a
deliberate attack; an intentional act of mass death and devastation.
As the small crew that had eye-witnessed the first plane hit the WTC
was racing to the location, Chief Pfeiffer sounded red alerts over the
radio and phone; specifically stating that what they witnessed was a
"DIRECT ATTACK," that the plane was clearly being directed straight at
the building and the incident was definitely NOT any kind of accident.

THUS: If, by some unimaginable combination of sheer stupidity,
criminal incompetence, negligence, ineptitude and apparent MASSIVE
concurrent near-unilateral failure of a number of (semi-)automatic air
defense warning and alert systems, US government/military authorities
charged with defending and patrolling the nation's airspace had
somehow FAILED to have become aware of a SERIOUSLY suspicious and
threatening ongoing situation occurring over the skies of the eastern
US with a number of large, fully-fueled passenger jets OBVIOUSLY being
in serious trouble and/or under hostile control and TOTALLY out of
communication with aviation authorities, then they had a DEFINITE
official report that this WAS the case once Chief Pfeiffer radioed in
his red alert. The intervening TWENTY MINUTES that elapsed before the
second plane hit the south WTC tower was MORE than enough time for
interceptors to have reached ground zero from Air Guard bases barely
TEN minutes away at LESS than maximum speed.

Now we have solid proof that a NYC fire official who EYE-WITNESSED the
first plane hit the WTC DID inform higher authorities that the
incident was CLEARLY A HOSTILE ATTACK!!

WHY, THEN, WAS OUR MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM NOT AT
SUCH TIME IMMEDIATELY ACTIVATED, if it had somehow NOT been activated
SOONER?!

What's also worth noting is that even as Pfeiffer and the others were
speeding downtown, the main fireball from the exploding jet fuel had
almost completely dissipated and the flames had subsided
significantly,
as is visible in the footage taken then by Jules Naudet.

** Third:
When the above-noted fire crew and cameraman Jules Naudet arrived at
WTC's tower one along with other fire crews and entered the building's
ground floor lobby, they were to a one completely puzzled -- actually
astonished -- to find SIGNIFICANT and widespread damage to the entire
lobby area; although NOT of a deep, structural kind. Moreover, NOWHERE
was there ANY indication whatsoever of an incendiary-type explosion or
ANY kind of fire in this area.

Yet the incredible number of blown-out windows and other extensive
though rather superficial damage throughout the lobby area was
profoundly perplexing to these EXPERIENCED professional firefighters
in
relation to the impact of the plane eighty stories above. As one put
it: "The lobby looked like the plane hit the lobby!"

But it DIDN'T: it hit EIGHTY STORIES ABOVE. There is NO WAY the impact
of the jet caused such widespread damage eighty stories below. In a
building which by design had easily withstood an amazing amount of
flexing and swaying from high winds, the ground-floor damage witnessed
by these men and recorded on camera could not POSSIBLY have been
caused by that plane crash. Over and over, these professional
firefighters expressed their complete puzzlement over the damage in
this area.

However, this glaringly anomalous factor was spin-doctored by the
narrator, who said fire officials were later informed (OBVIOUSLY by
"certain" federal officials) that the lobby damage occurred because
"burning jet fuel" had poured eighty stories down the elevator shafts
and then exploded in the lobby. Interesting fable -- but in fact there
was not one SINGLE visible indication of ANY kind of burning, fire or
incendiary-type explosion in the lobby area. The Feds' complete and
utter fabrication about jet fuel having "exploded" in the lobby is
thoroughly nullified by the clear visual evidence on the footage of
the fire-crews in the tower one lobby.

According to this visual evidence, it is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that
OTHER EXPLOSIVES (apparently of a non-incendiary kind such as
concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of
tower one at the same time as the plane crash -- before ANY fire crews
and rescue workers arrived at the scene!

** Fourth:
ALL the hundreds of professional firefighters massing at tower one AND
their chiefs and superiors -- a number of whom had eye-witnessed the
plane's actual impact -- along with other emergency services personnel
familiar with and trained to deal with such disasters, were VERY
surprised to find that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the north tower's elevators
was OUT OF COMMISSION. Despite the obvious severity of the impact and
the ensuing explosion and fire in parts of the building eighty stories
above, these professional firefighters and rescue workers were at a
loss to explain how EVERY SINGLE elevator could have been knocked out.
Clearly, SOMETHING ELSE besides the plane crash was responsible for
this truly dangerous state of affairs, which was a big factor in the
large number of fatalities which ensued.

** Fifth:
After the attack on the first tower, which had been reported by Chief
Pfeiffer and other officials to higher authorities as a DELIBERATE AND
HOSTILE ATTACK, the occupants of tower two were in the process
of being evacuated. But THEN, obviously issuing from some diabolical
source, word was spread throughout tower two's communications system
that there was NO FURTHER DANGER and that ALL OCCUPANTS should return
to their offices! Thus: Although clearly and SUSPICIOUSLY there was a
VERY low attendance rate in both WTC towers that day, SOME agency or
other took very deliberate steps to ensure that whoever WAS there that
day was almost certain to die.

** Sixth:
Clearly heard on the soundtrack of the CBS presentation of the
Naudets' footage is the sound of a TV or radio announcer stating that
there were reports of a FIRE and possible explosion having occurred at
the Pentagon.
Absolutely NOTHING was said about any PLANE having hit the Pentagon in
these initial reports!

** Seventh:
Explosions of varying loudness can be heard going off repeatedly
throughout tower one during the time fire crews had set up their
command post there after the first attack. WHAT WAS CAUSING THESE
EXPLOSIONS? This is never even commented upon: but what else is there
to SAY about this other than OTHER EXPLOSIVE DEVICES were DEFINITELY
being detonated throughout the building after the plane had hit?!

** Eighth:
ALL firefighters and rescue workers and their superiors and chiefs
were FULLY CONFIDENT at ALL TIMES -- even after the attack on the
south tower but before its unimaginable and unprecedented collapse --
that the dwindling conflagrations on the upper levels of the twin
towers WOULD be fully contained, and that the majority of those people
still up there WOULD be brought to safety. These trained and
experienced professionals were FULLY aware of the extent and severity
of the damage and destruction; yet not ONE of them even remotely
envisioned something as catastrophic as the TOTAL, UTTER COLLAPSE of
these two behemoth, tremendously solid structures. They knew they had
a tough job to do -- and they KNEW -- every one of them -- that they
COULD do it.

But then something they could never, ever have imagined DID happen.
The buildings -- beginning strangely enough with the far less damaged
and last to be struck south tower -- crumbled and sank from the
Manhattan
skyline in a vast and truly apocalyptic cloud of dust and rubble.

** Ninth:
The south tower, which suffered far less damage than tower one,
somehow or other crumpled to the ground. Professional fire and rescue
workers on-site were in a state of near-total disbelief. THIS COULD
NOT
HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY THE PLANE CRASH!

And THEN the same thing happened to the north tower.

And even MORE unbelievable: other than 3-4 inch thick steel beams
jutting out everywhere which showed NO sign at all of having become
softened, melted or anything similar, there was literally NOTHING LEFT
of these gargantuan structures but DUST.

Moreover: EACH of the Trade Center's twin towers had a TWO HUNDRED
THOUSAND+ GALLON water tank atop it. That's nearly a HALF-MILLION
gallons of water atop those two buildings. And not a single drop of it
reached the ground. WHY NO WATER IN THE FIRE SAFETYSYSTEM?

In the words of Engine 7's Joe Casaliggi: "You have two 110-story
office buildings. You don't find a desk; you don't find a chair; you
don't find a telephone or a computer... . The biggest piece of a
telephone was half
of a keypad.

"There was nothing left of those buildings BUT DUST."

And we're supposed to believe that was caused by burning jet fuel --
THAT'S BASICALLY KEROSENE, folks -- which had LONG SINCE burned off in
the initial fireballs.

We don't believe it. And neither do MANY, MANY other people, including
a large number of New York City firefighters -- may God bless them for
their selfless, honorable and heartfelt efforts to save others; all
tragically sacrificed to further the demonic and hellish agendas of
the mass-murdering within the US government so DEEPLY, deeply
complicit in the carnage of 9.11.

THE TRAITORS IN OUR GOVERNMENT WILL PAY FOR THEIR VICIOUS AND INHUMAN
TREACHERY ON 9.11.

Paul Gooding

unread,

Apr 25, 2002, 9:44:22 PM4/25/02

"Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message

news:9ecacd20.02042...@posting.google.com...

> EXCERPTED: After the attack on the first tower, which had been
> reported by Chief Pfeiffer and other officials to higher authorities
> as a DELIBERATE AND HOSTILE ATTACK, the occupants of tower two were in
> the process of being evacuated. But THEN, obviously issuing from some
> diabolical source, word was spread throughout tower two's
> communications system that there was NO FURTHER DANGER and that ALL
> OCCUPANTS should return to their offices!

Sure. The erroneous announcement was described in detail on Sept 11, across
the tv news spectrum.
The people in the south tower had no idea what had happened in the other
tower, and made a bad call.
Do you have evidence of the "diabolical source"? Devils Food cake, maybe?
El Diablo hot sauce?
Sparky, the mascot of the Arizona State University Sun Devils? Anything?

Haiba King

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 3:49:21 PM4/27/02

I think CBS is behind September 11th. They planned it all so they could
get high ratings for that 9/11 documentary. I have proof of this which
some guy from the UK showed me. Of course, I can't tell any of you what
this proof is. I will just endlessly refer to it as "the proof".

Dick - you really need to stop replying to your own posts from months
ago. The only proof you have is the 200 proof you've been chugging into
your system which alters your tiny brain and makes you write this
crap.

Isn't it time for you to change the tin foil hat you wear to protect
from the ray-gun the U.S. government is firing at you from outer space.
If indeed we have ever been to outer space????

Paul Gooding

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 3:59:17 PM4/27/02

"Haiba King" <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message
news:aaevc1$258$1...@news3.bu.edu...

> I think CBS is behind September 11th. They planned it all so they could
> get high ratings for that 9/11 documentary. I have proof of this which
> some guy from the UK showed me. Of course, I can't tell any of you what
> this proof is. I will just endlessly refer to it as "the proof".

Hey, that's good enough for Usenet!

Once the "story" circulates to a few FoilHat websites (Rense, et al), it's
"out there" and can be
cited by other websites, and in Usenet posts. It is beyond the realm of
credibility that there are
not pranks and spoofers out there who will gin up theories and stories just
to watch them make the
rounds of the underground information streams. I'd wager my next dividend
check that half of the
crap we see in alt.conspiracy has its origins in deliberate mischief.

But, just in case you are right, CBS YOU EVIL BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!

etc.

Haiba King

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 4:07:53 PM4/27/02

Thanks, Paul - I think. I'm not crazy about being cited as a reference along
with people named Dick.
I actually toyed with the idea of writing a book a few years back (full
of phone sources who could never be named) saying that Elton John and
the record labels were behind Princess Di's death - so that he could
sell a big hit record by redoing "Candle in the Wind". But then I realized
some some people can't understand irony and would take it at face value.
And why the hell is all this in the howard-stern group anyway. Maybe
if Uncle Floyd and the Jesus Twins were possibly behind 9/11...

Paul Gooding

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 4:23:06 PM4/27/02

"Haiba King" <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message

news:aaf0ep$5mb$1...@news3.bu.edu...

> Thanks, Paul - I think. I'm not crazy about being cited as a reference
along
> with people named Dick.
> I actually toyed with the idea of writing a book a few years back (full
> of phone sources who could never be named) saying that Elton John and
> the record labels were behind Princess Di's death - so that he could
> sell a big hit record by redoing "Candle in the Wind". But then I realized
> some some people can't understand irony and would take it at face value.

Good point .... the manufacturing of phony stories for profit. I'd
characterize this as an industry, and I think it is thriving.
Just for an obvious example of marketing a phony-baloney idea, you can look
at Parker Brothers and the Ouija Board. Of course, they call it a "game" to
disguise the real purpose of the thing.

Superstition and paranoia are strong and viable marketing tools.

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 4:25:10 PM4/27/02

"Paul Gooding" <ppgo...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message news:<aaabdq$epq$0...@pita.alt.net>...

> "Dick Eastman" <eas...@wolfenet.com> wrote in message
> news:9ecacd20.02042...@posting.google.com...
> > EXCERPTED: After the attack on the first tower, which had been
> > reported by Chief Pfeiffer and other officials to higher authorities
> > as a DELIBERATE AND HOSTILE ATTACK, the occupants of tower two were in
> > the process of being evacuated. But THEN, obviously issuing from some
> > diabolical source, word was spread throughout tower two's
> > communications system that there was NO FURTHER DANGER and that ALL
> > OCCUPANTS should return to their offices!
>
> Sure. The erroneous announcement was described in detail on Sept 11, across
> the tv news spectrum.
> The people in the south tower had no idea what had happened in the other
> tower, and made a bad call.
> Do you have evidence of the "diabolical source"?

Good, point Paul. I concede that the author does not have offer any
compelling reason for accepting this fact as evidence of a diabolical
plot -- the "bad call" could have been made unintentionally
independent of the fact that the September 11 crashes were part of a
false-flag frame-up. But it is significant to know that some NY
firemen also have dark suspicions about the events.

For me there are several clinchers -- the most important is the
discovery that an F-16 and a ground-to-air missile and not a Boeing
757 were responsible for the Pentagon deaths.

-----

I would like your comment on this one John:

Lest we forget - the questions are still unanswered:
Did hijackers fly through holes in U.S. air defense?

http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/archives/2001/sep/16/
didhijackers16.htm
Sept. 16, 2001
Did hijackers fly through holes in U.S. air defense?

By JAMES KINSELLA STAFF WRITER the MILITARY
OTIS ANG BASE -

Did terrorists exploit a flawed, outdated
concept of continental air defense in Tuesday's terrorism
attacks?

Or did a breakdown in military-civilian communication lead
to a fatal delay in fighter-jet interception?

Or both?

On Tuesday, terrorists commandeered four commercial
airliners, crashing two of them into the World Trade Center
and one into the Pentagon.

But the nation's air defense system - which in the
northeastern United States is spearheaded by the 102nd
Fighter Wing at Otis Air National Guard Base - is oriented
toward meeting external threats.

The North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD,
which coordinates continental air defense, "is not normally
focused inside the continental United States," according to
a spokesman.

Tuesday, however, the threat came from within NORAD's
perimeter - not outside of it.

FAA-military communication Under the current system, the
Federal Aviation Administration, which monitors domestic
flights, notifies NORAD about serious problems.

FAA controllers became aware Tuesday morning that hijackings

were underway. Five days later, the question lingers whether

the FAA notified NORAD as quickly as the agency could have,
or should have.

Thursday, the Christian Science Monitor reported that air
traffic controllers at a Federal Aviation Administration
center in Nashua, N.H., were aware soon after the first of
the airliners took off that something was amiss.

That airliner, an American Air Lines Boeing 767, was Flight
11 from Boston to Los Angeles. It departed from Boston's
Logan International Airport at 7:59 a.m.

About 15 to 20 minutes west of Logan, the Monitor reported,
the controller gave Flight 11 permission to climb from
29,000 feet to 31,000 feet. But the plane didn't climb.

After issuing a further request to climb - which again met
with no response - the controller sought to communicate with

Flight 11 on an emergency channel.

Still no response. Then the plane stopped sending a radar
pulse.

"Then the plane turned [south toward New York], and then
they heard the transmission with the terrorist in the
background," said a controller at Nashua interviewed by the
Monitor.

"The voice upset him [the controller] because he knew right
then that he was working a hijack," the controller told the
Monitor.

If a problem is detected, what protocol is a controller
supposed to follow?

"The air traffic controller would notify the supervisor on
the floor, who would then immediately notify the FAA's
regional operation center who would notify NORAD, as well as

others," an FAA spokeswoman, Alison Duquette, said Friday.

Surveillance of hijacked craft The 102nd always has two F-15

fighter jets on 24-hour alert, according to the wing. The
wing also is specifically charged with protecting the
northeastern United States, including New York City and
Washington.

Would the wing's jets be prepared to close in on a hijacked
airliner?

"We also provide surveillance of hijacked aircraft and
assist aircraft in distress," the wing has stated.

The errant airliner's flight lasted 46 minutes Tuesday,
between taking off in Boston and crashing into the North
Tower of the World Trade Center.

Based on the Monitor account, the FAA would have been aware
of a problem for perhaps the last 20 minutes or so of the
flight.

An FAA spokesman yesterday declined to comment whether the
Monitor's account was accurate.

"We're not releasing any details," he said.

Yesterday, however, a NORAD spokesman confirmed that the FAA

notified NORAD of a hijacked aircraft.

The spokesman, Maj. Mike Snyder, said NORAD was notified
about 10 minutes before Flight 11 hit the World Trade
Center.

That notification would have come around 8:35 a.m. The
airliner hit the North Tower around 8:45 a.m.

An F-15 Eagle can fly at about three times the speed of a
767. An F-15 departing from Otis can reach New York City in
10 to 12 minutes, according to an Otis spokewoman.

Neither NORAD nor the 102nd will comment on whether the wing

scrambled to intercept any of the airliners.

"We're not discussing any operational details," Snyder said
yesterday.

Was interception possible? Published reports Friday and
yesterday said that Otis jets did scramble to intercept the
hijacked airliners, although the reports gave differing
times for that action.

LHThe first crash, of Flight 11, arguably was too unexpected

to stop.

But what about United Airlines Flight 175, which left Boston

15 minutes after Flight 11?

Flight 175 departed off its course over Connecticut, 16
minutes into its flight, according to USA Today.

The United flight was over central New Jersey when it turned

and headed northeast, back toward Manhattan, USA Today
reported. Radar contact was lost between Philadelphia and
Newark.

Forty minutes after its Boston departure - and 16 minutes
after Flight 11 hit the North Tower of the World Trade
Center - Flight 175 hit the center's South Tower.

Forty-nine minutes later, at 9:50 a.m., the South Tower
collapsed. The North Tower collapsed at 10:29 a.m. Nearly
5,000 people have been reported missing since the collapse
of the towers.

Could have - should have - F-15s shadowed the errant Flight
175, especially after Flight 11 already had hit the World
Trade Center?

If not, why not?

F-15s from Otis also are responsible for protecting national

command centers in Washington.

At 8:10 a.m., according to the Washington Post, American
Airlines Flight 77 departed from Dulles Airport in
Washington, D.C.

Flight 77 also deviated from its course. According to the
Dallas Morning News, military officials scrambled three
F-16s from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept
the airliner.

But the intercept failed.

About 90 minutes after its departure from Washington - and
almost 40 minutes after the second World Trade Center crash
- Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

The fourth airliner - United Flight 93 - departed from
Newark, N.J., at 8:01 a.m. for San Francisco.

After Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, controllers watched as
Flight 93 took a turn in western Pennsylvania and headed for

Washington.

That airliner, however, apparently fell from the sky and
crashed in southern Pennsylvania at 10:10 a.m.

The crash may have been the outcome of a struggle between
passengers and the hijackers, the Washington Post has
reported.

Paul Gooding

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 4:43:59 PM4/27/02

Well, of course, there is no such "discovery" at all. This is a
conspiro-rumor that has circulated the foil-hat websites and newsgroups.

As for NY firemen with "dark suspicions" -- a lot of people have dark
suspicions about a lot of things.
The proper response is to look for facts and evidence, not suspicions and
rumors.

John Mazor

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 4:43:18 PM4/27/02

No, it's not significant, merely a characteristic of human nature. NY
firemen's suspicions don't carry any special significance. Check into
the rantings of a former NYFD employee named Bill Mulcahy. Not
content to see conspiracies under every aircraft wing, he's now veered
off into anti-semitism.

> For me there are several clinchers -- the most important is the
> discovery that an F-16 and a ground-to-air missile and not a Boeing
> 757 were responsible for the Pentagon deaths.

And what "clinched" that one?

agent86

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 9:15:40 PM4/27/02

On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:43:59 -0700, "Paul Gooding"
<ppgo...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>As for NY firemen with "dark suspicions" -- a lot of people have dark
>suspicions about a lot of things.
>The proper response is to look for facts and evidence, not suspicions and
>rumors.

And their "suspicions" are not about whether 767's hit the building,
or even whether the strikes caused the buildings to fall. They don't
even suspect that there were additional "bombs". Their suspicions are
in regard to why building codes allowed the WTC towers to be built as
they were. Why the stairwells and elevator shafts were allowed to be
built with 3 inch sheetrock walls instead of concrete. Why the
design, which supposedly allowed for the crash of a 707, didn't take
into account the fuel that the plane was carrying. Why there weren't
made aware of the hazards of entering the buildings after the aircraft
struck....

Hagrid

unread,

Apr 27, 2002, 10:54:33 PM4/27/02

to mail...@zedz.net

In article <3ccb4c63...@news.icx.net>

You really think that warning signs should be posted saying

"Caution: entering a burning build may be hazardous to your
health!"?

--
Holodeck Remailer - http://www.usenet-nomads.com/holodeck/

Angel Elf

unread,

Apr 28, 2002, 11:28:31 AM4/28/02

Haiba King <hk...@bu.edu> wrote in message news:<aaf0ep$5mb$1...@news3.bu.edu>...

> Thanks, Paul - I think. I'm not crazy about being cited as a reference along
> with people named Dick.
> I actually toyed with the idea of writing a book a few years back (full
> of phone sources who could never be named) saying that Elton John and
> the record labels were behind Princess Di's death - so that he could
> sell a big hit record by redoing "Candle in the Wind". But then I realized
> some some people can't understand irony and would take it at face value.
> And why the hell is all this in the howard-stern group anyway. Maybe
> if Uncle Floyd and the Jesus Twins were possibly behind 9/11...
>

I am calling for a full investigation into the link between Elton John,
Uncle Floyd, CBS, The French, The Queen of England, and the Jesus Twins
for their hand in the attack on the WTC.

By the way is the tin foil supposed to be shiny side up or down to reflect
the waves from the TV and radio?

Haiba King

unread,

Apr 28, 2002, 12:01:09 PM4/28/02

When the government shoots that ray beam from space at my brain I prefer
to wrap a potato in my tin-foil hat. It's rather tasty.
I think Dick Eastman was behind 9/11; so that way he could have something
to talk about. Boy, does this guy have problems, and a desire to be a
"voice of resaon"/center of attention.
I'm through trying to argue with him; it's useless because he has an
agenda he won't give up on. So I'll just be mocking him until the day he
dies. No - I'll be mocking that gaylord after he dies.

How about that Derek Lowe? Now I just await the annual mid-June decline
of the Red Sox.

agent86

unread,

Apr 28, 2002, 1:48:32 PM4/28/02

On 28 Apr 2002 02:54:33 -0000, Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header
(Hagrid) wrote:

No. But I'll bet firemen are more cautious entering high rise
buildings in the future.

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 30, 2002, 5:14:26 AM4/30/02

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk/pentagon.gif

See the event yourself-- an F-16 fires a missile into
the Pentagon before itself hitting. Those who claim they
saw a Boeing 757 also calim that they saw it dive at a steep angle --
but the video and the other witnesses say it was a small plane -- to
fit the small hole -- in fact an F-16 (many say it sounded like a jet
fighter or a missile, rather than a jet airliner) and that is why only
one engine, instead of two popped through the C-ring. (If it was a
Boeing 757 it would not have one engine breaking through thick walls
and the other evaporating in the first ring?)

Now think about this:

NORAD = The North American Aerospace Defense Command
FAA = The Federal Aviation Administration
WTC = The World Trade Center

According to the official NORAD timeline:

-- 8:40 a.m. The FAA notified NORAD that American Airlines
Flight 11 had been hijacked.

-- 8:43 a.m. The FAA notified NORAD that United Airlines
Flight 175 from Boston to Los Angeles had also been hijacked.

-- 8:46 a.m. NORAD ordered two F-15 jet fighters into the air
from Otis Air National Guard Base in Falmouth, Mass.

-- 8:52 a.m. The F-15s were airborne.

-- 9:02 a.m. As UA Flight 175 struck the WTC, the F-15s were
eight minutes away, or 71 miles.

Otis Air National Guard Base is 153 miles from the World Trade Center.

At 9:02 the F-15s were 71 miles from the World Trade Center.

So in 10 minutes the F-15s had covered 153 - 71 = 82 miles.

Hence the average speed of the scrambled F-15s is 492 miles per hour.

The top speed of F-15 is (greater than) 1875 miles per hour.

Why so slow?

-- 9:24 a.m. The FAA notified NORAD that a third jet,
American Flight 77 had been hijacked.

-- 9:24 a.m. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from

Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

-- 9:30 a.m. The fighters are airborne.

-- 9:37 a.m. The F-16s were 105 miles away when the airliner
struck the Pentagon.

Langley Air Force Base is 120 miles from the Pentagon.

At 9:37 the F-16s were 105 miles from the Pentagon.

So in 7 minutes the F-16s had covered 120 - 105 = 15 miles.

Hence the average speed of the scrambled F-16s is 130 miles per hour.

The top speed of F-16 is about 1500 miles per hour.

Again why so slow -- especially after the wtc hits?

Top North American Aerospace Defense Command personel, I
conclude was complicit in the Pentagon murders.

DaveyJonesLocker -
-------------------------------------------------------------
AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77
-------------------------------------------------------------
8:20 am : Plane departs from Dulles Airport. Some 20
miles from the Pentagon.

8:50 : Last radio communication with aircraft. Now some
300 miles from the Pentagon.
8:56 : Transponder contact lost. Now some 360 miles
from the Pentagon.
9:00 : Flight 77 turns and heads for Washington DC. Now
some 400 miles away from the Pentagon.

The hijackers finally make their move (and about time, all the
time they are getting further and further away from where they
started, and of course, further and further away from where
they are headed).

To give the Air National Guard/USAF a fighting chance the
intrepid hijackers wait till they are 400 miles away from their
target before turning back. But even though the hijackers are
more than sporting about the whole affair (after all they have
given the USAF over 40 minutes to get aircraft up to investigate
and if necessarily shoot them down) the USAF isn't quite up to
the job.

9:38 : AA77 crashes into southwest side of the Pentagon.

DaveyJonesLocker - 10:22pm Feb 21, 2002 GMT # 2 / 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THE ORIGINAL FRONT PAGE FOR THE WEB-SITE OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
AIR NATIONAL GUARD.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA AIR NATIONAL GUARD (DCANG).
DCANG MISSION
To provide combat units in the HIGHEST POSSIBLE STATE OF READINESS.
We will support the Air Force and other DOD agencies.
We will provide operational support to our local communities whenever
possible.
DCANG VISION
To be the premier organization in the Air National Guard recognized as
THE BENCHMARK for fulfilling our federal, state, and COMMUNITY
MISSIONS.
PREVIOUSLY available at http://www.dcandr.ang.af.mil/hq/default.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
THEN ARE ALL THE AIR NATIONAL GUARD WEB-SITES
SUDDENLY CLOSED DOWN?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
see http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@777@.ee9dec2/306
for a list of 80 or so ANG web-sites, 70 (at least) of which have been
taken off-line.
=============

www.truthout.com

Dick Eastman

unread,

Apr 30, 2002, 5:28:15 AM4/30/02

A group of investigators reaches the conclusion that no Boeing 757 hit
the Pentagon -- compare their conclusion with those of Bosankoe and
apfn.

http://www.nerdcities.com/guardian/SeptemberEleventh/WhatHitThePentagon/index.html

Government is not controlled by international organized crime -- oil,
drugs, money laundering disguised as the most respectable investment
banking practice --and they are committing mass murder to consolidate
power.

Soon everyone will realize this and will see where it is leading and
no one will do their dirty work any more. Every man is responsible to
every other man.

http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/pent.html
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm
http://www.copvcia.com Michael C. Ruppert

http://www.bosankoe.btinternet.co.uk
http://www.skolnicksreport.com Sherman H. Skolnick
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/
http://www.israelshamir.net
http://www.narconews.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tradecencrimes/
http://www.infowars.com/resources.html
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/

www.truthout.com

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