"ZOG"?
Dave Gelbart
federal goverment and it's arms as "ZOG". Does anyone know what this
stands for or is the short form of? The best I've been able to come up
with is Zionist Overlord Goverment, which doesn't sound right.
Just in case someone wanted to ask, this is appropriate for alt.conspiracy
because many of these people, rightly or not, believe the govt. is trying
to destroy them, and also because I have no idea where else to put it.
Dave Gelbart.
By the way, I have no idea why, but a friend of mine is looking for a
copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", any edition. Anyone?
Barry Shein
>I have seen one or two white racist organizations in the U.S. refer to the
>federal goverment and it's arms as "ZOG". Does anyone know what this
>stands for or is the short form of? The best I've been able to come up
>with is Zionist Overlord Goverment, which doesn't sound right.
I forget the exact meaning also, but you're close, actually, Z stands
for Zionist and I'm 99% sure G is for Govt.
>By the way, I have no idea why, but a friend of mine is looking for a
>copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", any edition. Anyone?
TPOTEOZ was written in the 19th century as a hoax against the Jews.
It purports to be a secret handbook of the jewish conspiracy. I
believe the original authorship is known (someone in France?)
Apparently it continues to be believable enough that certain hate
groups continue to claim it's authentic, although why they're still
concerned about a conspiracy of jews that started over 150 years ago
and still doesn't seem to be going too well is a mystery. Sort of the
same mentality that insists that all the problems in this country are
caused by welfare mothers, somehow they never quite connect cause with
effect or where the power lies and what you might expect the rewards
of power might be...
Then again, these sort of rants are from the same crew that "proved"
that communism was a plot by jews to control a nation's economy (e.g.
The John Birch Society uses that line), usually followed by apologies
for Hitler for "only" trying to get out of the jewish stranglehold...
They're crazy, we all know all of western civilization has been a plot
concocted by the Masons, Jesuits and The Vatican...the jews were only
catering the party (MOO-HAH-HAH!)
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | {xylogics,uunet}!world!bzs | b...@world.std.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Mark Schroeder
>I have seen one or two white racist organizations in the U.S. refer to the
>federal goverment and it's arms as "ZOG". Does anyone know what this
>stands for or is the short form of? The best I've been able to come up
>with is Zionist Overlord Goverment, which doesn't sound right.
I believe ZOG stands for 'Zionist Occupation Government'. The idead behind it is that the Zionists are secretly controlling the government. There was a movie out a few years ago that dealt with the racist movement, called 'Betrayed'. It starred Debra Winger.
>
>Just in case someone wanted to ask, this is appropriate for alt.conspiracy
>because many of these people, rightly or not, believe the govt. is trying
>to destroy them, and also because I have no idea where else to put it.
>
>Dave Gelbart.
>
>By the way, I have no idea why, but a friend of mine is looking for a
>copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", any edition. Anyone?
Can't help there.
Loki
st90...@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
capable of carrying out its wishes and conspiracies without help.
-Liam Forbes
Paul Hager
[...]
>By the way, I have no idea why, but a friend of mine is looking for a
>copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", any edition. Anyone?
A few months back, I read a book entitled, "Holy Blood Holy Grail".
It posits the interesting thesis that the Merovingian dynasty was
descended from Jesus who, in turn, was married to and had children
by Mary Magdelene. Without getting into the labyrinthine details
of the story, suffice that an organization called the Priore de Sion
(or something like that, pardon my French) has existed since the
11th or 12th century that is at the head of -- get this -- the
Masons. Anyway, the Protocols were actually a document of the
Priore de Sion that was obtained, edited, and used by some folks
in Czarist Russia to politically discredit some rivals and later
it was futher worked over to make it into an anti-semitic tract.
I don't think I've garbled things up too badly -- the book is
fascinating reading. As to how accurate it may be about secret
organizations and/or the Priore: skepticism is the best policy.
--
paul hager hag...@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
"I would give the Devil benefit of the law for my own safety's sake."
--from _A_Man_for_All_Seasons_ by Robert Bolt
Charles J. Guest
called the ZEROIDS. These were made in the late sixties or early
seventies and used 2 aa batteries about as fast as they could be
replaced.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ *READ* ---> The opinions expressed above are to the best of my knowledge, +
+ however all options should be discussed with persons who have professional+
+ training with the subjects covered here. * ALL POSSIBLE DISCLAIMERS APPLY!+
+ ____FROM: chg...@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov =>or<= sun!ames!pioneer!chguest____+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ ...One useless man is called a disgrace, two are called a law firm, and +
+ three or more become a congress.... +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Christian Dreyer
>dgel...@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Dave Gelbart) writes:
> [...]
>>By the way, I have no idea why, but a friend of mine is looking for a
>>copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", any edition. Anyone?
well, other sources say that it is a concoction from the fascinating to
read book "Dialogue aux enfers entre Machiavel et Montesquieu ou la politique
de Machiavel au dix-neuvieme siecle" by french Maurice Joly, which appeared
anonymously in 1864.
--
$ Chris Dreyer St. Gall Graduate School for Economic and $
$ Student Social Science, Switzerland $
$ DRE...@CSGHSG5A.BITNET !cernvax!ethz!chris (UUCP) $
Rudolf Kuenzli
>dgel...@questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Dave Gelbart) writes:
> [...]
>>By the way, I have no idea why, but a friend of mine is looking for a
>>copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", any edition. Anyone?
>
>A few months back, I read a book entitled, "Holy Blood Holy Grail".
You should read a followup as well. It comes from the same authors. The
title "The Messianic Legacy".
I didn't follow the discussion about "The Protocols...." But is has been
proven several times that they are fakes. They appeared first time as an
appendice in book from S. A. Nilus (a russian). It was the second
edition of this book. They didn't show up in the first edition. The
roots are from a satiric document against Napoleon III (1865) and from a
german novel (1868). They have been merged and parts of them have just
been copied. The title of the satiric book is "Dialogue aux enfers entre
Machiavelli et Montesqieu, ou ls Politique de Macchiavelli au 19eme
siecle, par un Contemporain. It's author is Maurice Jely. The german
novel's title is "Biarritz". The author is Sir John Retcliffe, in
reality Hermann Goedsche who wrote a lot of bloodthirsty novels. The
fake made by Silus have been verified by Strack, Segel, Stanjek and from
the reporter of the "Times" (Edition August 1923). The title of the
russian book with the "Protocols" I know only in German. Hopefully my
English isn't too bad for a translation: The Great in the Small, the
approaching Antichristian and the Empire of the temple on Earth.
Rudolf
--
Rudolf the Magician In real life: Rudolf Kuenzli
uucp: ...uunet!autodesk!adeskch!rudolf Internet: rud...@curano.acadch.com
...chx400!adeskch!rudolf rud...@adeskch.uu.ch
Markian Party Mineral Gooley
(Rudolf Kuenzli) writes:
>In article <0093FC46...@pip.cc.brandeis.edu>
>"work" and the current pope is an firstclass admirer of that society.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Opus Dei, judging from the members I've met,
consists of people who are usually competent but not stellar at whatever
work they do, and as utterly incapable of carrying out any conspiracy as
Inspector Clouseau in the "Pink Panther" movies.
The only thing that the Pope can rely on them for is perfectly orthodox
Catholic belief, which is more than can be said of any religious order
(Opus Dei is almost entirely laypeople). The Jesuits are supposed to be
the Pope's personal "army," but nowadays most of them are heretics.
Of course, I suppose that the Opus Dei people I know could be dissembling,
and actually be ruthless, sinister thugs adept at conspiracy. And the
organization does seem to be organized into loosely-connected parts that
don't know much about each other. :-} (There, that'll keep you guys
guessing...)
Mark.
goo...@cs.uiuc.edu
Loren J. Miller
> You are damned right. The vatican uses simply the OPUS DEI for his
> "work" and the current pope is an firstclass admirer of that society.
What the heck is Opus Dei ???
conspiracy theorists want to know...
hey ho,
the man with no pseudonym
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu
Just one little bird, no one'll know the difference... Then I'll quit.
<...later...> I gotta have a bird! I'm weak but I don't care! I can't
help it! After all, I am a pussy cat. -- Sylvester the Cat
Rudolf Kuenzli
You are damned right. The vatican uses simply the OPUS DEI for his
"work" and the current pope is an firstclass admirer of that society.
Rudolf
Jim Burnes
Regarding Mark's statements about Opus Dei. I can attest to the fact
that Opus Dei certainly is a dangerous group of people. I used to be
Roman Catholic until I was around 17. If anything, my experiences with
Opus Dei's youth recruiting group served to solidify my ideas about the
dangers of organized religion. When I was a seventh and eighth
grader, a group of Opus Dei lay men visited us to sell us on a weekend
camp experience called Westpine. Up front, it looked innocent
enough. What I found out on my first visit to my model rocketry class
at Westpine was that there was a mandatory Cathechism class after
model rockets. For all you non catholics that means about a half hour
to 45 minutes of rote memorization of Catholic teachings (ie:
brainwashing). They taught you all of the questions and answers about
the Catholic faith also. If you didn't opt to attend the Cathechism
classes you were treated like a leper and a pariaha (sp?).
I can see that I'm on a role now so I might as well dump my whole
story for the world.
Well, the Westpine folks had Saturday night dinners and gettogethers
and such. They also organized sports activities for us. Each of us
was assigned a "mentor". Someone who knew something about our
academic interests and such. This was when we were starting high
school. The typical weekend sequence was like this...
(you being a somewhat typical prep high school freshman...you are home
on Saturday afternoon watching Star Trek reruns with no prospect in
your wildest imaginings for a date or any such thing...suddenly)
Th phone rings:
Mom: Jim, its Luis from Westpine.
Jim: Hi Luis. Whats up?
Luis: Jim, were having a soccer game this afternoon. Would you and
your friends from school like to come?
Jim: Sure...I'll see you there.
(jim goes to soccer game)
All the Opus Dei members are there running the soccer game. Everthing
seems cool. The game ends, somebody wins and the news is there is
going to be a free dinner at the Westpine house. This is where the
Opus Dei men all live together in communal harmony. Before dinner
there is a meditation session. Everybody sits in a small chapel at
their house and contemplates their navel for half and hour while
pretending to become closer to god on high. After meditation you wait
in line for dinner. There is a collection for dinner. (these
brainwashers have the gall to ask you for money for your own brain to
be washed.) You get dinner. Its OK. You eat dinner and then you find
out that there is going to be a friendly game of charades in the
basement. You play charades in the typical style not knowing that
most guys your age are out at least trying to get dates with girls.
(I went to an all guys school so it was harder to find girls your age
when you couldnt drive). In the charades game you notice that
one-by-one all the guys get their chance to go somewhere else in the
house. Finally its your turn. Luis comes up to me and says, "Father
Bill would like to speak with you." Being the generally innocent kid
that I was I went to talk to Father Bill. Father Bill was upstairs in
his office. Father Bill was a father figure type priest. He would
asks how you are then asks about your grades and girls and whatever
and possibly your religious life. Sometimes your mentor would also do
this. In retrospect, I can see that they were trying to groom me to
be one of their members. Back then I began to feel that they were
poking their noses into things that were my private affairs. They
began to harass me when my grades took a plunge when I discovered
computers. I was well on my way to zorching my GPA as a sophomore and
becoming quite the computer hacker when Luis my mentor took me aside.
He told me that my grades werent up to snuff when I told him I was
getting C's in Spanish (that was my best subject that month). I got
pretty indignant about that and proceeded to answer his quick drill of
my spanish skills. He actually took me through all of the Spanish
declinations of verbs etc. (let me know when you want me to break a
paragraph. 8-) )
Innocent as I was I didnt appreciate this treatment. I mean I could
get the same bullshit from my parents. Besides..even then I could see
some wierd things about this group. I decided then not to return
Luis's calls for soccer games. I turns out that zorching my GPA at
that time was an extrordinary stroke of luck. Apparently they decided
it wasnt worth the effort to hone my waning academic skills. This is
why.
Fast forward to my senior year. I went to school with a guy named
Greg. He went to Westpine meetings with me. A real nice guy..a great
student and a Westpine indoctrinee. They thought lets brainwash and
latch onto this guy. Here is the scary part. My mom talked to a
Jesuit conselor of mine at my high school. He was a very learned and
wise man. My mom happened to mention this Father Bill guy and the
counselor looked him up in a whos-who in the church-book. To my
counselors great suprise this man had a Doctorate in Propositional
Theology (or some such thing) which is a very high degree in the
Catholic pecking order. This supposedly qualified him for teaching
catholic beleifs at the Vatican or the equivalent. My counselor
thought it strange that a man with a degree that only maybe two other
people in the country had was running a little weekend camp for boys.
The rest, as they say, is history. As it turns out, this friend of
mine Greg was so thoroughly brainwashed they got him to take a vow of
celibacy at the age of 15. Priests think long and hard about doing
this themselves, much less the lay people. Greg's parents didnt know
a thing about this vow. Greg left home shortly thereafter. Gregs
parents spent a lot of money trying to bring him home and deprogram
him. Last they heard he was literally throwing himself at the foot of
the Pope during one of his US trips.
Needless to say, the Jesuits at my high school were enraged. The
Jesits at my High School and the affiliated college sent a letter
directly to the Pope at the Vatican asking that an investigation of
Opus Dei be started and that this boy's vow of celibacy be annulled.
The response was that Opus Dei was operating within its limitations.
The Jesuits have banned all Westpine recruting at their high school
and others as well as notifying quite a few local grades schools.
I thank the gods of computing that saved me by zorching my GPA back in
my sophmore year and giving me a profession that earns me more than
those scum sucking lawyers and accountants over at Opus Dei would ever
thought I could earn.
BTW: I made it through high school and have a degree in computer
science.
Please excuse the horrid spelling errors and stream of conscience
writing here. My hands are cold and I'm tired.
Jim Burnes
-------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the man in the White House, the man under the steeple
Passing out drugs to the American people
I don't believe in anything, nothing is free
They're feeding our people that Government Cheese
the RainMakers
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Burnes: jbu...@crash.cts.com mabellnet: (314) 962-2399
------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the man in the White House, the man under the steeple
Passing out drugs to the American people
I don't believe in anything, nothing is free
They're feeding our people that Government Cheese
the RainMakers
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Burnes: jbu...@crash.cts.com mabellnet: (314) 962-2399
------------------------------------------------------------------
chri...@cdp.uucp
>approaching Antichristian and the Empire of the temple on Earth.
Your translation is good: except that you are translating ``Christ''
in German as ``Christian'' in English. It should be ``Antichrist''.
That's a reference to the Satanic world ruler who is supposed to
arise at the end of the age, as described by the ``Apocalypse'' in
the New Testament.
I learned a lot from your history of the Protocols. In the U.S. it
was published by Henry Ford, the pioneer of automobile mass
production who also, unfortunately, was an antisemitic kook. I saw
a reproduction on his edition circulated by a small antisemitic sect
recently. I have never understood why some people will believe
absolutely anything--on the left and the right.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Lang tcn449 TCN
Christic Institute christic PeaceNet
Washington, D.C. 76247,3214 CompuServe
202-797-8106 voice uunet!pyramid!cdp!christic UUCP
202-462-5138 fax cdp!christic%labrea@stanford Bitnet
151251507 telex cdp!chri...@labrea.stanford.edu Internet
Vern...@cc.curtin.edu.au
>
> Regarding Mark's statements about Opus Dei. I can attest to the fact
> that Opus Dei certainly is a dangerous group of people. I used to be
lots of stuff deleted - go back and read it - it's real !
I had a similar (not quite so transparent) recruitment attempt when I was
in the last couple of years of high school. Yes, I went to a Catholic
high school before I lapsed (quite severely) at about 19.
It started when a group of middle-aged Catholic intellectuals visited
the school to talk to potential university students about their survival
in tertiary education. Only five of the best students (sorry, can't be
modest and tell the story properly - anyway, I've got a PhD) were selected
for this talk - the initiative appears to have come from at least the level
of the Bishop, so the teachers were quite happy to comply.
Well, over several hours the intellectuals had us convinced that Universities
were hotbeds of communism, atheism, necromancy and sex. We liked the
sound of the last part until they told us that sex was used as a weapon
against right-thinking people like ourselves and that the fornicators
were going to give us STDs so that we could be blackmailed into acting
for the 'dark side'. At 16 this sounded almost plausible. We were then
asked if we would like to go on 'tertiary preparation weekend' camps to
learn more about survival at uni. Shit, I had other things to do on
weekends and lived miles away, so I couldn't go, but those who went
told stories of being asked to sign declarations of loyalty and of being
introduced to 'tertiary guides' - people already in the local tertiary
institutions and active members of catholic groups. They were told that
they could (and should) meet with these people regularly to make sure
that they were 'on track' with their lives. I had occasion to meet
up with some of these people later on when I was employed as a college
tutor - they were evil dudes acting in the name of God. Now, I can't label
all catholic university group members as the same, but watch out - some of
them are THE SAME DUDES.
Needless to say, I avoided these people, thinking that I could probably
handle Uni OK by myself (I proved to be right!) and I objected to self-
righteous bastards who thought they knew more than me. Those who did the
right thing and kept in contact were brainwashed reasonably well, but all
faded from the scene when the majority dropped out after about 12 months.
I think that they spent too much time with their 'protectors' to do much
study.
I got involved with university politics as a postgraduate student and
learned that there was a 'Catholic Mafia' in Australian universities.
Their crimes (allegedly) included planting drugs at student functions
(especially if held by a political or feminist group), burglary of
student union offices and vandalism of the cars of people involved in
anything anti-establishment. They really had a nasty attitude towards
feminism, socialism and any other non-catholic idea. The climax of my
story is (sorry about rambling my way to it) that I was introduced to
some of the so-called Catholic Mafia, who turned out to be from the same
group of bastards who talked to us at school. The conspiracy apparently
runs quite deep and this group are quite well funded and organised. The
name of the group ? Can't you guess?
The Opus Dei see their major enemy as IDEAS. Can't let people have IDEAS,
they might learn to think. Resist these bastards! They want to drag
you (and me) back into the 14th century.
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
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= CSIRO Division of Mineral Products Fax: (61) 9 350 5295 +
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My employer disclaims any knowledge or responsibility for the
ideas expressed herein - unless they're patentable!
Michael Rys
>In article <59...@crash.cts.com>, jbu...@crash.cts.com (Jim Burnes) writes:
>>
>> Regarding Mark's statements about Opus Dei. I can attest to the fact
>> that Opus Dei certainly is a dangerous group of people. I used to be
>
>lots of stuff deleted - go back and read it - it's real !
Opus Dei (lat.) Work of God
Opus Dei is the name of a very conservative movement within the catholic
church which poses itself against the second Vatican Counsil. It was
founded by a close friend of former Spain dictator Franco. It is
currently very strong, it is said that most of the powerful cardinals in
the Vatican are members of that group or at least sympatise with it.
Some of their not too dangerous goals:
1. To keep up celibacy (sp?) for priests
2. Laypriest shouldn't be allowed to perform "sacred" rituals in church.
3. Laypriest should stay unmarried.
4. In general the pre 2nd Vatican Cousil order should be rebuild
They think their work is directly inspired by God (therefore their name)
and therefore they have the correct stand on any topic - they keep the
absolute truth.
Really scary is, that in Europe (at least in Switzerland and Germany)
newly elected bishops are members or sympatisants of Opus Dei. Eg, the
new bishop of Chur is a close friend of Opus Dei (he denies membership)
and in my opinion a very conservative, reactionary and sexist type of
guy which of course does not what to step back. Stepping back?
Yes, since his election through the Pope was not legal. According to
some old treaties with some authorities in Switzerland, they got the
right to give the placet or not. According to a recent poll, more than 80% of
the roman-catholics in his domain would like to have somebody else as
bishop, the catholics of Zurich for example keep their church taxes back
(In Germany, this is not possible due to a treaty between Pius XII and
Adolf Hitler where the state collects the money and gives it directly to
the church).
Short: It is a very dangerous group of people, known to brainwashing
young people as described in two previous postings and very near to
fascism (see the founder and their position re absolut truth).
Hope this gives some more information about Opus Dei.
Cheers
Michael
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Rys, V. Conzett Str. 34; CH-8004 Zuerich; Switzerland |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UUCP: mr...@ethz.UUCP or EAN: mr...@ifi.ethz.ch |
| mr...@bernina.UUCP IPSANet: mrys@ipsaint |
| Voice: +41 1 242 35 87 DECNet: ETHZ::mrys |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
-- Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darueber muss man schweigen. --
Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus logico-philosophicus
Marco Isopi
With the following differences:
It happened in another country (Italy)
My grades never took a plunge, so I was actually asked
to take a celibacy wov at 14(15?). That is when I decided
to split. I kept on doing very well, so they kept insisting,
for five years.
Otherwise, the story Jim related could be mine, with all the gory
details.
I have loads of horror stories about Opus Dei, just ask me.
Or maybe I will just follow up one day.
Marco
P.S. This happened in Rome, almost walking distance from the Vatican,
so my informations are certainly more detailed than the average
reader of this newsgroup might know.
P.P.S. Yes Opus Dei means Work of God in Latin, but I believe is not.
Marco Isopi
>In article <59...@crash.cts.com>, jbu...@crash.cts.com (Jim Burnes) writes:
>>
>> Regarding Mark's statements about Opus Dei. I can attest to the fact
>> that Opus Dei certainly is a dangerous group of people. I used to be
>lots of stuff deleted - go back and read it - it's real !
very real!
>I got involved with university politics as a postgraduate student
>learned that there was a 'Catholic Mafia' in Australian universities.
[gory, but very plausible stuff delated]
>The climax of my
>story is (sorry about rambling my way to it) that I was introduced to
>some of the so-called Catholic Mafia, who turned out to be from the same
>group of bastards who talked to us at school. The conspiracy apparently
>runs quite deep and this group are quite well funded and organised.
Hate to repeat myself, but this could be my story (part II).
I too got involved in university politics and... what Chris says
goes.
Marco
Alan Taylor
: I have never understood why some people will believe
: absolutely anything--on the left and the right.
: -----------------------------------------------------------------
: Andrew Lang tcn449 TCN
: Christic Institute christic PeaceNet
This is pretty ironic, considering the source.
in...@cinecentersoftware.com
> ZOG was the name of the 'leader' robot that was part of a set of toys
> called the ZEROIDS. These were made in the late sixties or early
> seventies and used 2 aa batteries about as fast as they could be
> replaced.