More on Project Echelon!!

David Goldman

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Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00

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Now for all those who don't believe in the uncontrolled power of the
covert intelligence community...........

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU FEB 24 2000 21:52:22 ET XXXXX

ECHELON BOMBSHELL: NSA ACCUSED OF SPYING ON US POLITICIANS

The National Security Agency may be using the Echelon network to
eavesdrop
on US politicians, says a shock report set for broadcast this weekend!

Everywhere in the world, everyday, peoples phone calls, emails and
faxes are
monitored by Echelon, a secret government surveillance network. Former
spy
Mike Frost cracks Echelon wide open, in an interview with Steve Kroft
on
CBS' 60 MINUTES.

MORE

American politicians have been eavesdropped on, says Margaret Newsham,
a
woman who worked at Menwith Hill in England, the NSA's largest spy
station.
She says she was shocked to hear the voice of Senator Strom Thurmond
(Rep.
S.C.) on a surveillance headset.

The exposing of such possible abuses of Echelon will surely add to the
growing firestorm in Europe over the system. Earlier this week the
European
Parliament issued a report accusing the U.S. of using Echelon for
commercial
spying to help American companies win lucrative contracts over
European
competitors on two separate occasions. The U.S. State Department
denies such
spying took place and will not even acknowledge the existence of the
top
secret Echelon project.

Rep. Porter Goss (Rep.- Fla), chairman of the House Intelligence
Committee,
which has oversight of the NSA, does acknowledge that the U.S. has the
capability to pick up any phone call and that even his own
conversations
could have been monitored. But Goss says there are methods to prevent
the
abuse of that information. I cannot stop the dust in the ether but
what I
can make sure, is that the capability is not abused, he tells Kroft.

MORE

The NSA runs Echelon with Canada, Britain, Australia and New Zealand
as a
series of listening posts around the world that eavesdrop on
terrorists,
drug lords and hostile foreign governments. But to find out what the
bad
guys are up to, all electronic communications, including those of the
good
guys, must be captured and analyzed for key words by super computers,
a fact
that makes Former spy Mike Frost uncomfortable.

"My concern is no accountability and nothing, no safety net in place
for the
innocent people who fall through the cracks," he tells Kroft.

As an example of those innocent people, Frost cites a woman whose name
and
telephone number went into the Echelon database as a possible
terrorist
simply because she told a friend on the phone that her son had bombed
in a
school play.

"The computer spit that conversation out. The analystwas not too sure
what
the conversation was referring to, so, erring on the side of caution,
he
listed that lady," Frost recalls.

Democracies usually have laws against spying on citizens, but Frost
says
Echelon members could ask another member to spy for them in an end run
around those laws. Frost tells Kroft that his Canadian intelligence
boss
spied on British government officials for Prime Minister Margaret
Thatcher.

Developing hard...

Tutu

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Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00

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Tell me how do I encrypt (scramble) my e-mail, phone & faxes?

I believe governments in Europe are using it to avoid their messages being
understood by NSA's Echelon.

Does anyone has more information on this?

"David Goldman" <da...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:38b95b1c...@news.erols.com...

Rob Robertson

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Feb 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/28/00

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Tutu wrote:
>
> Tell me how do I encrypt (scramble) my e-mail, phone & faxes?
>
> I believe governments in Europe are using it to avoid their messages being
> understood by NSA's Echelon.
>
> Does anyone has more information on this?

Go to http://www.altavista.com/, type in 'search engine', and go from there.

> > XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU FEB 24 2000 21:52:22 ET XXXXX

[redacted for reasons of national security]

_
Rob Robertson

ETERNAL CREATOR

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Feb 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/28/00

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a better tactic
to make echelon
ineffective

is to convince everybody
to include the NSA catch words with all of their communication

they cannot sort through al of it
the sheer volume of tagged transmissions will overwhelm the human analyst
the system will crash

you and I can do it
but we must agree to co-operate

the only way to beat the conspiracy
is to beat them with their own game
we have to conspire together
it's all legal
you can say whatever you want

here is the list of catch words:

Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators,
initiators, main charge, nuclear charges, ambush, sniping, motorcade,
IRS, BATF, jtf-6, mjtf, hrt, srt, hostages, munitions, weapons, TNT,
rdx, amfo, hmtd, picric acid, silver nitrite, mercury fulminate,
presidential motorcade, salt peter, charcoal, sulfur, c4, composition b,
amatol, petn, lead azide, lead styphante, ddnp, tetryl, nitrocellulose,
nitrostarch, mines, grenades, rockets, fuses, delay mechanism, mortars,
rpg7, propellants, incendiaries, incendiary device, thermite,
security forces, intelligence, agencies, hrt, resistance, psyops,
infiltration, assault team, defensive elements, evasion, detection,
mission, communications, the football, platter charge, shaped charges,
m118, claymore, body armor, charges, shrapnel, timers, timing devices,
boobytraps, detcord, pmk 40, silencers, Uzi, HK-MP5, AK-47, FAL, Jatti,
Skorpion MP, teflon bullets, cordite, napalm, law, Stingers, RPK, SOCIMI 821
SMG, STEN, BAR, MP40, HK-G3,FN-MAG, RPD,PzB39, Air Force One, M60, RPK74, SG530,
SG540, Galil arm, Walther WA2000, HK33KE, Parker-Hale MOD. 82, AKR, Ingram MAC10,
M3, L34A1, Walther MPL, AKS-74, HK-GR6, subsonic rounds, ballistic media, special
forces, JFKSWC, SFOD-D, SRT, Rewson, SAFE, Waihopai, INFOSEC, ASPIC, Information
Security, SAI, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Privacy, Information Terrorism,
Kenya, Terrorism Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive
Information, Offensive Information Warfare, NAIA, SAPM, ASU, ECHELON ASTS,
National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, SAO, Reno, Compsec, JICS, Computer
Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, RSP, ISS, JDF, Passwords,
NAAP, DefCon V, RSO, Hackers, Encryption, ASWS, Espionage, USDOJ, NSA, CIA,
S/Key, SSL, FBI, Secret Service, USSS, Defcon, Military, White House, Undercover,
NCCS, Mayfly, PGP, SALDV, PEM, resta, RSA, Perl-RSA, MSNBC, bet, AOL, AOL TOS,
CIS, CBOT, AIMSX, STARLAN, 3B2, BITNET, Tanzania, SAMU, COSMOS,
DATTA, E911, FCIC, HTCIA, IACIS, UT/RUS, JANET, ram, JICC, ReMOB, LEETAC, UTU,
VNET, BRLO, SADCC, NSLEP, SACLANTCEN, FALN, 877, NAVELEXSYSSECENGCEN, BZ, CANSLO,
CBNRC, CIDA, JAVA, rsta, Active X, Compsec 97, RENS, LLC, DERA, JIC, rip, rb, Wu,
RDI, Mavricks, BIOL, Meta-hackers, ^?, SADT, Steve Case, Tools, RECCEX, Telex,
OTAN, monarchist, NMIC, NIOG, IDB, MID/KL, NADIS, NMI, SEIDM, BNC, CNCIS,
STEEPLEBUSH, RG, BSS, DDIS, mixmaster, BCCI, BRGE, SARL, Military Intelligence,
JICA, Scully, recondo, Flame, Infowar, Bubba, Freeh, Archives, ISADC, CISSP,
Sundevil, jack, Investigation, JOTS, ISACA, NCSA, ASVC, spook words, RRF, 1071,
Bugs Bunny, Verisign, Secure, ASIO, Lebed, ICE, NRO, Lexis-Nexis, NSCT, SCIF,
FLiR, JIC, bce, Lacrosse, Flashbangs, HRT, IRA, EODG, DIA, USCOI, CID, BOP,
FINCEN, FLETC, NIJ, ACC, AFSPC, BMDO, site, SASSTIXS, NAVWAN, NRL, RL, NAVWCWPNS,
NSWC, USAFA, AHPCRC, ARPA, SARD, LABLINK, USACIL, SAPT, USCG, NRC, ~, O, NSA/CSS,
CDC, DOE, SAAM, FMS, HPCC, NTIS, SEL, USCODE, CISE, SIRC, CIM, ISN, DJC, bemd,
SGC, UNCPCJ, CFC, SABENA, DREO, CDA, SADRS, DRA, SHAPE, bird dog,
SACLANT, BECCA, DCJFTF, HALO, SC, TA SAS, Lander, GSM, T Branch, AST,
SAMCOMM, HAHO, FKS, 868, GCHQ, DITSA, SORT, AMEMB, NSG, HIC, EDI, benelux, SAS,
SBS, SAW, UDT, EODC, GOE, DOE, SAMF, GEO, JRB, 3P-HV, Masuda, Forte, AT, GIGN,
Exon Shell, radint, MB, CQB, CONUS, CTU, RCMP, GRU, SASR, GSG-9, 22nd SAS, GEOS,
EADA, SART, BBE, STEP, Echelon, Dictionary, MD2, MD4, MDA, diwn, 747, ASIC, 777,
RDI, 767, MI5, 737, MI6, 757, Kh-11, EODN, SHS, ^X, Shayet-13, SADMS, Spetznaz,
Recce, 707, CIO, NOCS, Halcon, NSS, Duress, RAID, Uziel, wojo, Psyops, SASCOM,
grom, NSIRL, D-11, SERT, VIP, ARC, S.E.T. Team, NSWG, MP5k, SATKA, DREC, DEVGRP,
DF, DSD, FDM, GRU, LRTS, SIGDEV, NACSI, MEU/SOC,PSAC, PTT, RFI, ZL31, SIGDASYS,
TDM, SUKLO, SUSLO, TELINT, fake, TEXTA, ELF, LF, MF, SIGS, VHF, Recon, peapod,
PA598D28, Spall, dort, 50MZ, 11Emc Choe, SATCOMA, UHF, SHF, ASIO, SASP, WANK,
Colonel, domestic disruption, 5ESS, smuggle, Z-200, 15kg, DUVDEVAN, RFX, nitrate,
OIR, Pretoria, M-14, enigma, Bletchley Park, Clandestine, NSO, nkvd, argus,
afsatcom, CQB, NVD, Counter Terrorism Security, SARA, Rapid Reaction, JSOFC3IP,
Corporate Security, Police, sniper, PPS, ASIS, ASLET, TSCM,
Security Consulting, M-x spook, Z-150T, High Security, Security Evaluation,
Electronic Surveillance, MI-17, ISR, NSAS, Counterterrorism, real, spies, IWO,
eavesdropping, debugging, CCSS, interception, COCOT, NACSI, rhost, rhosts, ASO,
SETA, Amherst, Broadside, Capricorn, NAVCM, Gamma, Gorizont, Guppy, NSS, rita,
ISSO, submiss, ASDIC, .tc, 2EME REP, FID, 7NL SBS, tekka, captain, 226, .45,
nonac, .li, Ionosphere, Mole, Keyhole, NABS, Kilderkin, Artichoke, Badger,
Emerson, Tzvrif, SDIS, T2S2, STTC, DNR, NADDIS, NFLIS, CFD, quarter, Cornflower,
Daisy, Egret, Iris, JSOTF, Hollyhock, Jasmine, Juile, Vinnell, B.D.M., Sphinx,
Stephanie, Reflection, Spoke, Talent, Trump, FX, FXR, IMF, POCSAG, rusers, Covert
Video, Intiso, r00t, lock picking, Beyond Hope, LASINT, csystems, .tm, passwd,
2600 Magazine, JUWTF, Competitor, EO, Chan, Pathfinders, SEAL Team 3, JTF, Nash,
ISSAA, B61-11, Alouette, executive, Event Security, Mace, Cap-Stun, stakeout,
ninja, ASIS, ISA, EOD, Oscor, Merlin, NTT, SL-1, Rolm, TIE, Tie-fighter, PBX,
SLI, NTT, MSCJ, MIT, 69, RIT, Time, MSEE, Cable & Wireless, CSE, SUW, J2,
Embassy, ETA, Fax, finks, Fax encryption, white noise, Fernspah, MYK,
GAFE, forcast, import, rain, tiger, buzzer, N9, pink noise, CRA,
M.P.R.I., top secret, Mossberg, 50BMG, Macintosh Security,
Macintosh Internet Security, OC3, Macintosh Firewalls, Unix Security,
VIP Protection, SIG, sweep, Medco, TRD, TDR, Z, sweeping, SURSAT, 5926,
TELINT, Audiotel, Harvard, 1080H, SWS, Asset, Satellite imagery, force,
NAIAG, Cypherpunks, NARF, 127, Coderpunks, TRW, remailers, replay,
redheads, RX-7, explicit, FLAME, JTF-6, AVN, ISSSP, Anonymous, W, Sex,
chaining, codes, Nuclear, 20, subversives, SLIP, toad, fish, data havens,
unix, c, a, b, d, SUBACS, the, Elvis, quiche, DES, 1*, NATIA, NATOA,
sneakers, UXO, (), OC-12, counterintelligence, Shaldag, sport, NASA, TWA, DT,
gtegsc, owhere, .ch, hope, emc, industrial espionage, SUPIR, PI, TSCI,
spookwords, industrial intelligence, H.N.P., SUAEWICS, Juiliett Class Submarine,
Locks, qrss, loch, 64 Vauxhall Cross, Ingram Mac-10, wwics, sigvoice, ssa,
E.O.D., SEMTEX, penrep, racal, OTP, OSS, Siemens, RPC, Met, CIA-DST, INI,
watchers, keebler, contacts, Blowpipe, BTM, CCS, GSA, Kilo Class, squib,
primacord, RSP, Z7, Becker, Nerd, fangs, Austin, no|d, Comirex, GPMG, Speakeasy,
humint, GEODSS, SORO, M5, BROMURE, ANC, zone, SBI, DSS, S.A.I.C., Minox, Keyhole,
SAR, Rand Corporation, Starr, Wackenhutt, EO, burhop, Wackendude, mol, Shelton,
2E781, F-22, 2010, JCET, cocaine, Vale, IG, Kosovo, Dake, 36,800, Hillal, Pesec,
Hindawi, GGL, NAICC, CTU, botux, Virii, CCC, ISPE, CCSC, Scud, SecDef, Magdeyev,
VOA, Kosiura, Small Pox, Tajik, +=, Blacklisted 411, TRDL, Internet Underground,
BX, XS4ALL, wetsu, muezzin, Retinal Fetish, WIR, Fetish, FCA, Yobie, forschung,
emm,
ANZUS, Reprieve, NZC-332, edition, cards, mania, 701, CTP, CATO, Phon-e,
Chicago Posse, NSDM, l0ck, spook, keywords, QRR, PLA, TDYC, W3, CUD,
CdC, Weekly World News, Zen, World Domination, Dead, GRU, M72750,
Salsa, 7, Blowfish, Gorelick, Glock, Ft. Meade, NSWT, press-release,
WISDIM, burned, Indigo, wire transfer, e-cash, Bubba the Love Sponge,
Enforcers, Digicash, zip, SWAT, Ortega, PPP, NACSE, crypto-anarchy,
AT&T, SGI, SUN, MCI, Blacknet, ISM, JCE, Middleman, KLM, Blackbird,
NSV, GQ360, X400, Texas, jihad, SDI, BRIGAND, Uzi, Fort Meade, *&,
gchq.gov.uk, supercomputer, bullion, 3, NTTC, Blackmednet, :,
Propaganda, ABC, Satellite phones, IWIS, Planet-1, ISTA, rs9512c,
South Africa, Sergeyev, Montenegro, Toeffler, Rebollo, sorot,
cryptanalysis, nuclear, 52 52 N - 03 03 W, Morgan, Canine, GEBA,
INSCOM, MEMEX, Stanley, FBI, Panama, fissionable, Sears Tower,
NORAD, Delta Force, SEAL, virtual, WASS, WID, Dolch, secure shell,
screws, Black-Ops, O/S, Area51, SABC, basement, ISWG, $ @, data-haven,
NSDD, black-bag, rack, TEMPEST, Goodwin, rebels, ID, MD5, IDEA, garbage,
market, beef, Stego, ISAF, unclassified, Sayeret Tzanhanim, PARASAR,
Gripan, pirg, curly, Taiwan, guest, utopia, NSG, orthodox, CCSQ, Alica,
SHA, Global, gorilla, Bob, UNSCOM, Fukuyama, Manfurov, Kvashnin, Marx,
Abdurahmon, snullen, Pseudonyms, MITM, NARF, Gray Data, VLSI, mega,
Leitrim, Yakima, NSES, Sugar Grove, WAS, Cowboy, Gist, 8182, Gatt,
Platform, 1911, Geraldton, UKUSA, veggie, XM, Parvus, NAVSVS, 3848,
Morwenstow, Consul, Oratory, Pine Gap, Menwith, Mantis, DSD, BVD, 1984,
blow out, BUDS, WQC, Flintlock, PABX, Electron, Chicago Crust, e95,
DDR&E, 3M, KEDO, iButton, R1, erco, Toffler, FAS, RHL, K3, Visa/BCC,
SNT, Ceridian, STE, condor, CipherTAC-2000, Etacs, Shipiro, ssor, piz,
fritz, KY, 32, Edens, Kiwis, Kamumaruha, DODIG, Firefly, HRM,
Albright, Bellcore, rail, csim, NMS, 2c, FIPS140-1, CAVE, E-Bomb,
CDMA, Fortezza, 355ml, ISSC, cybercash, NAWAS, government, NSY, hate,
speedbump, joe, illuminati, BOSS, Kourou, Misawa, Morse, HF, P415,
ladylove, filofax, Gulf, lamma, Unit 5707, Sayeret Mat'Kal, Unit 669,
Sayeret Golani, Lanceros, Summercon, NSADS, president, ISFR, freedom,
ISSO, walburn, Defcon VI, DC6, Larson, P99, HERF pipe-bomb, 2.3 Oz.,
cocaine, $, impact, Roswell, ESN, COS, E.T., credit card, b9, fraud,
ST1, assassinate, virus, ISCS, ISPR, anarchy, rogue, mailbomb, 888,
Chelsea, 1997, Whitewater, MOD, York, plutonium, William Gates, clone,
BATF, SGDN, Nike, WWSV, Atlas, IWWSVCS, Delta, TWA, Kiwi, PGP 2.6.2.,
PGP 5.0i, PGP 5.1, siliconpimp, SASSTIXS, IWG, Lynch, 414, Face, Pixar,
IRIDF, NSRB, eternity server, Skytel, Yukon, Templeton, Johohonbu, LUK,
Cohiba, Soros, Standford, niche, ISEP, ISEC, 51, H&K, USP, ^, sardine,
bank, EUB, USP, PCS, NRO, Red Cell, NSOF, Glock 26, snuffle, Patel,
package, ISI, INR, INS, IRS, GRU, RUOP, GSS, NSP, SRI, Ronco, Armani,
BOSS, Chobetsu, FBIS, BND, SISDE, FSB, BfV, IB, froglegs, JITEM, SADF,
advise, TUSA, LITE, PKK, HoHoCon, SISMI, ISG, FIS, MSW, Spyderco, UOP,
SSCI, NIMA, HAMASMOIS, SVR, SIN, advisors, SAP, Monica, OAU, PFS,
Aladdin, AG, chameleon man, Hutsul, CESID, Bess, rail gun, .375,
Peering, CSC, Tangimoana Beach, Commecen, Vanuatu, Kwajalein, LHI,
DRM, GSGI, DST, MITI, JERTO, SDF, Koancho, Blenheim, Rivera, Kyudanki,
varon, 310, 17, 312, NB, CBM, CTP, Sardine, SBIRS, jaws, SGDN, ADIU,
DEADBEEF, IDP, IDF, Halibut, SONANGOL, Flu, &, Loin, PGP 5.53, meta,
Faber, SFPD, EG&G, ISEP, blackjack, Fox, Aum, AIEWS, AMW, RHL, Baranyi,
WORM, MP5K-SD, 1071, WINGS, cdi, VIA, DynCorp, UXO, Ti, WWSP, WID,
osco, Mary, honor, Templar, THAAD, package, CISD, ISG, BIOLWPN, JRA,
ISB, ISDS, chosen, LBSD, van, schloss, secops, DCSS, DPSD, LIF, PRIME,
SURVIAC, telex, SP4, Analyzer, embassy, Golf, B61-7, Maple, Tokyo, ERR,
SBU, Threat, JPL, Tess, SE, EPL, SPINTCOM, ISS-ADP, Merv, Mexico, SUR,
SO13, Rojdykarna, airframe, 510, EuroFed, Avi, shelter, Crypto AG

Rob Robertson

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Feb 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/28/00

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ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:
>
> a better tactic
> to make echelon
> ineffective
>
> is to convince everybody
> to include the NSA catch words with all of their communication
>
> they cannot sort through al of it
> the sheer volume of tagged transmissions will overwhelm the human analyst
> the system will crash

Don't be naive. There is no way you're going to overload Echelon by
adding naughty words to your posts; your posts are correlated with a
bunch more info than to what 'group you post, to whom you respond,
to what topics you reply, etc,...

'The Government' is NOT stupid. That is a ruse, a smokescreen to be
generated whenever certain activities are questioned. 'They' might be
stupid, but 'they' are smart enough to pay smart people to create all
kinds of clever solutions to tricky 'human resource' problems, and
'they' are paying for it with *your* tax dollars.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid. Think "Echelon + PROMIS = ?????"

_
Rob Robertson

ETERNAL CREATOR

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

doesn't hurt to try

maybe you're one of the mother fuckers that works for the NSA or CSE
lets fuck with you guys

maybe you're giving this advise because you know it will work
you are trying to discourage this tactic
fuck you
fuck the government

they fuck with you
so now you fuck with them

fuck you klinton
fuck you bouchard
fuck you chretien

Rob Robertson wrote:

> ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:
> >
> > a better tactic
> > to make echelon
> > ineffective
> >
> > is to convince everybody
> > to include the NSA catch words with all of their communication
> >
> > they cannot sort through al of it
> > the sheer volume of tagged transmissions will overwhelm the human analyst
> > the system will crash
>

Bill Kasper

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>'s
turn:
=doesn't hurt to try
=
=maybe you're one of the mother fuckers that works for the NSA or CSE

See Robertson?

It is just transparently obvious.

Even to this ee cummings-style tin foiler.

Come here.

<slap>

Get out of my sight.

Sing Wee

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

You forgot GOLD. Gold is one of the biggest threats to the entire
scheme. Everything relating to GolD must be tracked.

On 28 Feb 2000 10:39:02 -0600, ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>
wrote:

Sing Wee

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

HA HA HA, You have been fooled. The government IS stupid. The truth is
so ugly it has to be hidden in black.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:35:33 -0500, Rob Robertson <rr...@gte.com>
wrote:

King Pineapple

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

This is straight out of the plot of probably more than one
novel. In the 1969 novel "Providence Island", the three people
stranded on a Caribbean Island (near Cuba) finally figured out
that they could get rescued at any time by making a large sign
that would be noticed by the U2 spy planes. They put "Fidel XXX"
in the sand with palm tree branches, 3 days later they were
rescued.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Rob Robertson

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:
>
> doesn't hurt to try

Depends on your definition of 'hurt'.

> maybe you're one of the mother fuckers that works for the NSA or CSE

> lets fuck with you guys

You couldn't touch us if you tried. Go ahead, give it your best
shot. We *own* you, you freakin' clown, and I pull your strings
and make you dance to *my* tune.

> maybe you're giving this advise because you know it will work
> you are trying to discourage this tactic
> fuck you
> fuck the government
>
> they fuck with you
> so now you fuck with them
>
> fuck you klinton
> fuck you bouchard
> fuck you chretien

Excellent! I can *feel* the rage welling up inside you. Yes! Come
to the dark side, my friend and know what true POWER is! Then,
instead of focusing your energies on government abuses and the
neverending struggle for freedom you can trade barbs with various
cyberspooks, load your emails and posts with 'trigger words' and
get sucked down into the swirling miasma of questions sans answers,
vague recollections and murky details of half-heard and barely
understood 'news' stories. Tell David I said 'hi'.

> Rob Robertson wrote:
>
> > ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:
> > >

> > > a better tactic
> > > to make echelon
> > > ineffective
> > >
> > > is to convince everybody
> > > to include the NSA catch words with all of their communication
> > >
> > > they cannot sort through al of it
> > > the sheer volume of tagged transmissions will overwhelm the human analyst
> > > the system will crash
> >

> > Don't be naive. There is no way you're going to overload Echelon by
> > adding naughty words to your posts; your posts are correlated with a
> > bunch more info than to what 'group you post, to whom you respond,
> > to what topics you reply, etc,...
> >

Steve

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:

> doesn't hurt to try

No, it doesn't hurt, but it almost certainly is a waste of time.

Rob Robertson's post was correct. You obviously don't
do much computer programming, or you would easily be
able to see and understand what he is talking about.

I'll give you an example of how they can 'neutralize' your
effort to overwhelm their systems.

Most people cut-and-past a string of keywords, so the
guys that write the programs to parse words out of the
documents can simply store frequently use sample patterns,
and then recognize the documents that contain these patterns
don't need to be analyzed by humans. Another trick they
can use is to parse documents, and look for concentrations
of keywords. If the document contains more than a few words,
and all or most of the words are keywords, the doc is probably
another silly 'Echelon cycle waster'.

As far as overwhelming their computing resources goes, I'll
bet it is impossible...even if you flooded all of the communications
lines on the web, I'll bet they have sufficient capacity to process
everything that is sent.

I am glad people are interested in the subject and taking an
active role is securing our privacy, but the method you are
using is highly unlikely to produce the results that you, me and
Mr. Robertson would all like to see.

Now apologize to Mr. Robertson, and listen more carefully
when he speaks in the future :-). He obviously understands
some of this stuff pretty well.

Cheers
Steve

Rob Robertson

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

Right. I've been outted as a cyberspook for NSA.

<smirk>

You humans are *so* gullible it's all I can do to
keep from filleting you all for sheer giggles.

_
Rob "not so wrathful - yet" Robertson

ETERNAL CREATOR

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

Rob Robertson wrote:

> ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:
> >
> > doesn't hurt to try
>

> Depends on your definition of 'hurt'.

nothing illegal about it
no authority can come after you
for exercising your constitutional right

in fact
pursuing someone for doing what I advocate
is in itself a criminal act

>
>
> > maybe you're one of the mother fuckers that works for the NSA or CSE

> > lets fuck with you guys
>
> You couldn't touch us if you tried. Go ahead, give it your best
> shot. We *own* you, you freakin' clown, and I pull your strings
> and make you dance to *my* tune.

which is ....hanky panky

>
>
> > maybe you're giving this advise because you know it will work
> > you are trying to discourage this tactic
> > fuck you
> > fuck the government
> >
> > they fuck with you
> > so now you fuck with them
> >
> > fuck you klinton
> > fuck you bouchard
> > fuck you chretien
>
> Excellent! I can *feel* the rage welling up inside you. Yes! Come
> to the dark side, my friend and know what true POWER is! Then,
> instead of focusing your energies on government abuses and the
> neverending struggle for freedom you can trade barbs with various
> cyberspooks, load your emails and posts with 'trigger words' and
> get sucked down into the swirling miasma of questions sans answers,
> vague recollections and murky details of half-heard and barely
> understood 'news' stories. Tell David I said 'hi'.

david who....I know many Davids

if you won't mention last names
describe the relationship
with definitive details
that only I would know as the truth
then I'll recognize the fact that
you mother fuckers are monitoring me
and I'll consider the possibility
that it might be in my best personal interests
to cease and desist my education
campaign

of course
my decision will depend heavily
on how much monetary compensation is offered
to me in exchange for the gross
violation of my rights under article 2 (a & b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights
and Freedoms.

have a nice day
and go fuck yourself

>
>
> > Rob Robertson wrote:
> >
> > > ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:
> > > >

> > > > a better tactic
> > > > to make echelon
> > > > ineffective
> > > >
> > > > is to convince everybody
> > > > to include the NSA catch words with all of their communication
> > > >
> > > > they cannot sort through al of it
> > > > the sheer volume of tagged transmissions will overwhelm the human analyst
> > > > the system will crash
> > >

> > > Don't be naive. There is no way you're going to overload Echelon by
> > > adding naughty words to your posts; your posts are correlated with a
> > > bunch more info than to what 'group you post, to whom you respond,
> > > to what topics you reply, etc,...
> > >
> > > 'The Government' is NOT stupid. That is a ruse, a smokescreen to be
> > > generated whenever certain activities are questioned. 'They' might be
> > > stupid, but 'they' are smart enough to pay smart people to create all
> > > kinds of clever solutions to tricky 'human resource' problems, and
> > > 'they' are paying for it with *your* tax dollars.
> > >
> > > Yeah, that's pretty stupid. Think "Echelon + PROMIS = ?????"
> > >
> > > _
> > > Rob Robertson

--
NSA:
The ladies who traverse the sewer pipes carry nuclear weapons in their panties.
The weapons will be detonated by the release of biological weapons inside of their
snatch while in washington.
The president will sniff the poison inside their panties (as he is known for doing)
and swiftly be overcome by the noxious fumes.

ETERNAL CREATOR

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

lets just try it
lets do it
adding the text in a signature file is no hassle at all
it only has to be done once
and then will automatically be added to all of your e-mails

the tricky part will be to get all the corporations and banks to do the same

in face
I'm sure that foreign business and individuals
should all do this
so that the mother fuckers will not rip you off.

Steve wrote:

> ETERNAL CREATOR wrote:
>
> > doesn't hurt to try
>

--

ETERNAL CREATOR

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

yes the government is stupid
the problem is that most people out there
are even stupider

I am the only genius
and free thinker
left

Sing Wee wrote:

> HA HA HA, You have been fooled. The government IS stupid. The truth is
> so ugly it has to be hidden in black.
>
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:35:33 -0500, Rob Robertson <rr...@gte.com>
> wrote:
>

> > 'The Government' is NOT stupid. That is a ruse, a smokescreen to be
> >generated whenever certain activities are questioned. 'They' might be
> >stupid, but 'they' are smart enough to pay smart people to create all
> >kinds of clever solutions to tricky 'human resource' problems, and
> >'they' are paying for it with *your* tax dollars.
> >
> > Yeah, that's pretty stupid. Think "Echelon + PROMIS = ?????"
> >
> >_
> >Rob Robertson

--

ETERNAL CREATOR

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

gold is freedom
sell your worthless stocks
buy spot gold
in fact
mine the land for gold
put gold in your teeth
shove it up your ass
and swallow the stuff

Sing Wee wrote:

--

Bill Kasper

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>'s
turn:
=

<snip>
=no authority can come after you
=for exercising your constitutional right

Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!

Tell that to the dead Davidians.
Or Vicky Weaver.
Or the prisons full of those who chose to Constitutionally medicate
themselves, or keep their own money.

Oh yeah, you're safe.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If every person has the right to defend - even by force - his person, his
liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the
right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights
constantly."- THE LAW, by Frederic Bastiat, Paris, 1850

Bill Kasper

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during Rob Robertson <rr...@gte.com>'s turn:
<snip>
=
= Right. I've been outted as a cyberspook for NSA.
=
=<smirk>
=
= You humans are *so* gullible it's all I can do to
=keep from filleting you all for sheer giggles.
=
=_
=Rob "not so wrathful - yet" Robertson

OK OK, hey look, no harm intended, right?

I get a little carried away sometimes.
You know, the stress of being under ground for most of the year,
overseeing Echelon as well as the saucer reverse engineering
project just gets to me sometimes.

Cripes, your people sure built them things well.

Anyway, look, here's a nice juicy brdnmouse. No hard feelings, OK?

(damn deep cover mole double agent reptoids...)

ETERNAL CREATOR

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

Bill Kasper wrote:

> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>'s
> turn:
> =
> <snip>
> =no authority can come after you
> =for exercising your constitutional right
>
> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!
>
> Tell that to the dead Davidians.

their mistake was to fire first
if they remained peaceful
nothing would have happened
your score 0

>
> Or Vicky Weaver.

enlighten me
i never heard about her
your score still 0

>
> Or the prisons full of those who chose to Constitutionally medicate
> themselves, or keep their own money.

they broke some sort of law
drugs
tax evasion

your score still 0

>
>
> Oh yeah, you're safe.

name me one civilian who
was in some way or form
harmed by their very government
for freely speaking and saying what they perceived as the truth
include only examples of modern day (not older than 20 years and not during times of
war)
include only canadians living in canada
include only canadians who have been harmed by the canadian government or agents of
do not include those who have signed oaths of secrecy

your answer will be 0

your score will forever be 0

>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "If every person has the right to defend - even by force - his person, his
> liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the
> right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights
> constantly."- THE LAW, by Frederic Bastiat, Paris, 1850

--

Gary Cruse

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

On 29 Feb 2000 15:54:03 -0600, ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>
wrote:

>
>

>Bill Kasper wrote:
>
>> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>'s
>> turn:
>> =
>> <snip>
>> =no authority can come after you
>> =for exercising your constitutional right
>>
>> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!
>>
>> Tell that to the dead Davidians.
>
>their mistake was to fire first
>if they remained peaceful
>nothing would have happened
>your score 0
>

Shoot at an agent, we come in
and kill all your kids.

That's America? That's Sicily.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6305/index.html
--
Save the whales! Collect the whole set!

Bill Kasper

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during Gary Cruse <gcr...@att.net>'s turn:
=On 29 Feb 2000 15:54:03 -0600, ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>
=wrote:
=
=>
=>
=>Bill Kasper wrote:
=>
=>> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR
<carp...@my.job>'s
=>> turn:
=>> =
=>> <snip>
=>> =no authority can come after you
=>> =for exercising your constitutional right
=>>
=>> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!
=>>
=>> Tell that to the dead Davidians.
=>
=>their mistake was to fire first
=>if they remained peaceful
=>nothing would have happened
=>your score 0
=>
=
= Shoot at an agent, we come in
= and kill all your kids.

In dispute, at the very least.

Remember, the FBI "lost" the entire front door where the initial shot
direction could have been determined.

I think the Diallo case mentality is pretty common, and it is probably
what happened in Waco.

Somebody stepped on some bubble wrap and went nuts.

=
=That's America? That's Sicily.
=

With lashings of France and Mexico.

Bill Kasper

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>'s

turn:
=
=

=Bill Kasper wrote:
=
=> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR
<carp...@my.job>'s
=> turn:
=> =
=> <snip>
=> =no authority can come after you
=> =for exercising your constitutional right
=>
=> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!
=>
=> Tell that to the dead Davidians.
=

=their mistake was to fire first

=if they remained peaceful
=nothing would have happened
=your score 0

That's your IQ.

You don't know the case.

You are a troll.

You are 12 years old.

Bye.

<snip>

John T. Kennedy

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

On 29 Feb 2000 15:54:03 -0600, ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>

wrote:

>
>
>Bill Kasper wrote:
>
>> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>'s
>> turn:
>> =

>> <snip>

>> =no authority can come after you

>> =for exercising your constitutional right
>>

>> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!

>>
>> Tell that to the dead Davidians.
>

>their mistake was to fire first

>if they remained peaceful
>nothing would have happened
>your score 0

Who told you the Davidian's fired first?

Diallo didn't fire first. Which is the one that keeps you alive?

>
>>
>> Or Vicky Weaver.
>
>enlighten me
>i never heard about her
>your score still 0

Hear of Ruby Ridge, pinhead?

-

John Kennedy
The Wild Shall Wild Remain!
http://members.xoom.com/rational1/wild/
Updated 2/13/00

John T. Kennedy

unread,

Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:30:55 GMT,
bill....@usa.whatareyoulookingat.net (Bill Kasper) wrote:

>The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during Gary Cruse <gcr...@att.net>'s turn:
>=On 29 Feb 2000 15:54:03 -0600, ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>
>=wrote:
>=
>=>
>=>
>=>Bill Kasper wrote:
>=>

>=>> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR
><carp...@my.job>'s

>=>> turn:
>=>> =
>=>> <snip>
>=>> =no authority can come after you
>=>> =for exercising your constitutional right
>=>>
>=>> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!
>=>>

>=>> Tell that to the dead Davidians.
>=>
>=>their mistake was to fire first
>=>if they remained peaceful
>=>nothing would have happened
>=>your score 0
>=>
>=
>= Shoot at an agent, we come in
>= and kill all your kids.
>
> In dispute, at the very least.
>
> Remember, the FBI "lost" the entire front door where the initial shot
> direction could have been determined.
>
> I think the Diallo case mentality is pretty common, and it is probably
> what happened in Waco.

At Ruby Ridge the Feds claimed the first firefight started when one of
them was killed with the first shot. But the investigation showed he
got off seven rounds. See the Feds weren't smart enough to burn and
bulldoze the area in that case.

It also seems clear that once federal blood has been drawn slaughter
is inevitiable.

Michael. J Schneider

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

In article <6qZu4.4562$VM.2...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "Leo Sgouros"
<lsgo...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> Are you saying the kids were deliberately targeted?

http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/war/fig/w_fig34a.jpg

= = = =
Take a good look at them:

*You* know who you are. You knew *exactly* what you were doing that
day. There were no "mistakes"; there was no "negligence". In fact
everything went right according to plan (well, almost everything -- not
everyone died). Throughout each phase of the ordeal, you knew that this
was to be the intended outcome, and you planned each stage with care. You
lied about them, you lied to them, you tricked them, and then you penned
them up like rats in a barrel and slaughtered them. Then you promoted
yourselves amid blizzards of lies.

Take a good look at them. It's *your* handiwork:

Did you laugh while you were murdering them?
What was going through your mind when you mashed them under tanks?
Or when you pumped in enough gas to suffocate a barn full of cattle?
Did you think it was funny, or "a rush"? Did you get an erection?
Did you think you were doing "the right thing" for Uncle Sam?
Did you think that they deserved it because they were "cultists"?
Did you think maybe you were just playing a video game?

Did you ever, for the briefest moment, stop to wonder what the bloody
hell it was that you were doing?

http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/war/fig/w_fig34a.jpg

Why did you fire machineguns at children?
You *knew* they were in there. Twenty of them.

Do you shave using an electric because your hands tremble now? Can you
look yourself straight in the eyes in the mirror? Or are you a
consciousless, remorseless automation with a deadened soul? Just another
soldier ant?

Did you take comfort in the fact that the roar of your firing automatic
weapon, or of the engine of your vehicle, would drown out the screams of
pain and of terror that you didn't want to hear?

http://www.magnet.ch/serendipity/waco/wacolist.html
http://www.parascope.com/articles/1296/test_ind.htm
http://www.parascope.com/mx/articles/rememberWaco.htm
http://www.parascope.com/articles/1296/waco_g01.htm
http://www.illusions.com/opf/waco_pix_vandalism.htm

[...]

The Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum:
http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html
http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/sitemap.html

"If there are gods, they do not help, but know this: that
all things done under the naked stars are remembered."

Mike Schneider, VRWC Sentinel Outpost. "Autoguns, on-line!" +--+--+--+
Reply to mike1@@@winternet.com sans two @@, or your reply won't reach me.

Dilbert: "Today I started hating people in advance."
Dogbert: "It saves time."

ETERNAL CREATOR

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Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00

to

Gary Cruse wrote:

> On 29 Feb 2000 15:54:03 -0600, ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>

> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Bill Kasper wrote:
> >
> >> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>'s
> >> turn:
> >> =
> >> <snip>

> >> =no authority can come after you

> >> =for exercising your constitutional right
> >>

> >> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!

> >>
> >> Tell that to the dead Davidians.
> >

> >their mistake was to fire first

> >if they remained peaceful
> >nothing would have happened
> >your score 0
> >
>

> Shoot at an agent, we come in

> and kill all your kids.
>

> That's America? That's Sicily.

like I always maintained about Las Vegas
they claim that the mob was bought out by big business
I claim that big business
was taken over by the mob
now the government has been taken over by the mob

what we have now happening around the globe
is that the various mobs that control their own territories
are battling each other for more turf
they call this war
we have in place now
a world wide scenario where mob (mafia) rule
is about to take over the planet
the question yet to determine an answer to
is which mob will rule

when the question is answered
we will also have a totalitarian fascist society

>
>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6305/index.html
> --
> Save the whales! Collect the whole set!

--

Leo Sgouros

unread,

Mar 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/1/00

to

"Gary Cruse" <gcr...@att.net> wrote in message
news:b9gobs0smtbkfukuu...@4ax.com...

> On 29 Feb 2000 15:54:03 -0600, ETERNAL CREATOR <carp...@my.job>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Bill Kasper wrote:
> >
> >> The haunted Yatzee game spelled out, during ETERNAL CREATOR
<carp...@my.job>'s
> >> turn:
> >> =
> >> <snip>
> >> =no authority can come after you
> >> =for exercising your constitutional right
> >>
> >> Ahhaahahahhaahahhahaha!
> >>
> >> Tell that to the dead Davidians.
> >
> >their mistake was to fire first
> >if they remained peaceful
> >nothing would have happened
> >your score 0
> >
>
> Shoot at an agent, we come in
> and kill all your kids.
>

Are you saying the kids were deliberately targeted?

> That's America? That's Sicily.

>
>
>
>
>

Leo Sgouros

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Mar 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/1/00

to

"Michael. J Schneider" <steph...@rocketrain.org> wrote in message
news:stephensons-29...@ppp-67-192.dialup.winternet.com...

> In article <6qZu4.4562$VM.2...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "Leo Sgouros"
> <lsgo...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you saying the kids were deliberately targeted?
>
>

That was really not what I was asking.I am aware they are dead, shot,
burned, blowed up, whatever.
My question is do you think that they wanted to kill those kids too?
And if so, was it to avenge the other agents?
And who do you think I am to be using all that "you" stuff??

Gary Cruse

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Mar 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/1/00

to

On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 00:23:30 GMT, "Leo Sgouros"
<lsgo...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>Are you saying the kids were deliberately targeted?
>

Was the bombing of Dresden aimed at anyone
in particular? Does it make a difference?

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6305/index.html
--
Whenever I hear the word "culture", it makes me want to reach for my
revolver.

Leo Sgouros

unread,

Mar 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/1/00