Was.
John Winston
This talks about a map made on a stone that was
millions of years old.
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Note: Although the Names have been Changed, the Story
is the same with the Sumerian Enki and Enlil.
During the first half of the Lemurian age, the
involvement of Extraterrestrials was in the role of
observers. They did not intervene, interject or become
involved with subjects of their study at that point in
time. Development and progression of planet Earth was
under the study of what is called 'The Titan Project',
which was under the extraterrestrial groups from Sirius,
the Pleiades and Orion, although thre were other
extraterrestrial races which also shared involvements.
Although it seems that the Sirians, Pleiadeans and those
from Orion did interact in cooperation with each ohter
under the mutually agreed upon conditions of the program
there was a renegade factor of reptilians that did not
adhere to the 'rules' or doctrines of the Titan research
project as set down by the three main project
participants. This reptilian race is the dominating
force behind what we now know as the Illum-nati. The
reptilians and Nordics interbred with each other to
create hybrid bloodlines, using the rest of the world
populace as mere pawns in the battles and alliances.
History tells of that the blue eyed blondes and the
reptilians have been at w-r in many parts of the
galaxies with factions on both sides also joining
togethere to create alliances for their mutual benefit.
This reptilian race is the dominating force behind the
Illuminati with considerable involvement from the
greysand some elements of the extraterrestrial wh-te
rac- of 'Nordics'. The reptilians and Nordics interbred
with each other to create hybrids bloodlines. There was
also reptilian breeding with other r-ces around the
world, but the Nordic connections appear to be the most
important to them. The fusion implanted a reptilian
gnetic code into the DNA and these are the bloodlines
that have ruled the world then and now. The fundamental
theme running from the Golden Age of Atlantis, Mu,
Greece, Europe and modern times is that of the snake or
serpent. Both civilizations were known in legends as
the Dragon Lands and the Motherlands. The Greeks called
Atlantis 'Hespera' (a name for Venus) and they said it
was guarded by a dragon. Native American recoreds call
Atlantis 'Itzamana', which means Dragon Land. ..or 'Old
Red Land'.
The Il-umaniti American Organization, The Leumurian
Fellowship, says that an extraterrestrial r-ce from
Venus, known as the Kumaras, were the leaders of the
Lemurian civilization. The Fellowship says the Kumaras
created a Mystery School to initiate chosen people into
the advanced esoteric knowledge. It was structured with
13 schools (levels of initiation), each on more advanced
then the other. Each has to go through all the schools
of initiation. After passing the 13th , one is allowed
to go on to teach the knowledge of the Brotherhood of
the Snake or Serpent.
Atlantis and Lemuria existed for hundreds of
thousands of years and Atlantis broke up in stages over
a long period before the final destruction. Both
cultures expanded across the world with their priests
and 'royal' bloodlines or 'Dragon Kings...or as some
people call 'Shepherd Kings', founding colonies in all
parts of the globe spreading the Serpent Stories. Sacred
sites were placed on the vortex poins on the global
energy grid.
This is a web of force lines, known as ley lines or
meridians, which encircle or interpenetrate the planet.
When these lines cross it creates a spiralling vortex
of energy and the more lines that cross, the bigger the
vortex. The grid is geometrical and the vortex points
are in geometrical relationship to each other.
Practically all of the go-s of Greece are of a
northern origin, originating in Lemuria toward the end
of the Third Ra-e after its physical ev-lution was
completed. The Fourth Ra-e is, with Hesiod, that of the
heroes who fell before Thebes, or under the walls of
Troy. The Trojan -ar, therefore, although an historical
event of some 6,000 years ago, was also a symbol of
other events which took place upon the continent of
Atlantis. The Atlanteans developed from a nucleus of
northern Lemurian men, centered, roughly speaking,
toward a point of land which is now in the middle of the
Atlantic Ocean. The early Atlanteans were three-eyed,
having two in front and a third eye at the back of the
head. (JW I believe you will find that some of them
had the third eye between the other two eye and is the
pineal gland now.) The Greeks preserved the record of
this rac- in a statue of the three-eyed Zeus, discovered
in the Acropolis of Argos and believed to be the oldest
statue ever found in Greece.
See Red Haired Mummies of Egypt
At the height of their civilization the Atlanteans
were giants both in body and in intellect, and were
greater scientists than those of the present day.
For one thing, they had aeroplanes which were operated
by solar force.
Homer's vessels "going without sails or oars" refers
to them, as does the myth of Icarus, who was warned by
his father Daedalus to fly ...nor low, nor high, If low,
thy plumes may flag the ocean's spray, If high, the sun
may dart his fiery ray.
Unfortunately for their own future, the Atlanteans
turned their knowledge to negative and material uses.
Many modern practices such as vivisection, blood
transfusion, the transplanting of animal glands to human
bodies -- even the craze for personal wealth and power
-- In direct defiace of nature. The Atlanteans used
their knowledge for w-rfare, which resulted in the
catastrophic submergence of their continent which was
felt around the world as can be evidenced by the great
deluge stories around the world in all cultures.
The Greeks preserved the tradition of the sinking of
Atlantis in the myth of Deucalion. The legend says that
after the fourth r-ce had passed its apex of
development, a change occurred in men. Modesty, truth
and honor fled, and in their place came crime, fraud,
cunning and the wicked love of gain. Seeing the
condition into which the earth had fallen, Jupiter
determined to destroy it and form a new land where men
would have fresh opportunities to live a virtuous life.
So the waters came and covered the land, leaving only
Mount Olympus above the waves. There Deucalion and his
wife Pyrrha found shelter, and from them sprang the new,
fifth r-ce. Chri-tians have the same story found in
Gen-sis in the Accounts of Noah and the Flood.
MAN KIND GOES BACK 110 MILLION YEARS AND MORE
http://www.theaustralianyowieresearchcenter.com/
pgymy_homo_race.html
A find of Bashkir scientists is contrary to
traditional notions of human history: stone slabs
which are 120 million years covered with the relief map
of Ural Region.
This seems to be impossible. Scientists of Bashkir
State University have found indisputable proofs of an
ancient highly developed civilization's existence. The
question is about a great plate found in 1999, with a
picture of the region done according to an unknown
technology. This is a real relief map. Today's mil-tary
has almost similar maps. The map contains civil
engineering works: a system of channels with a length of
about 12,000 km, weirs, powerful dams. Not far from
the channels, diamond-shaped grounds are shown, whose
destination is unknown. The map also contains numerous
inscriptions. At first, the scientists thought that was
Old Chinese language. Though, it turned out that the
inscriptions were done in a hieroglyphic-syllabic
language of unknown origin. The scientists never managed
to read it "The more I learn the more I understand that
I know nothing," - the doctor of physical and
mathematical science, professor of Bashkir State
University, Alexandr Chuvyrov admits. Namely Chuvyrov
made that sensational find. Already in 1995, the
professor and his post-graduate student from China Huan
Hun decided to study the hypothesis of possible
migration of Old Chinese population to the territory of
Siberia and Ural. In an expedition to Bashkiria, they
found several rock carvings done in Old Chinese
language. These finds confirmed the hypothesis of
Chinese migrants. The subscriptions were read. They
mostly contained information about trade bargains,
marriage and death registration.
Though, during the searches, notes dated the 18th
century were found in archives of Ufa governor-general.
They reported about 200 unusual stone slabs which were
situated not far from the Chandar village, Nurimanov
Region.
Chuvyrov and his colleague at once decided that slabs
could be connected with Chinese migrants. Archive notes
also reported that in 17th-18th centuries, expeditions
of Russian scientists who investigated Ural Region had
studied 200 white slabs with signs and patterns, while
in early 20th century, archaeologist A. Schmidt also had
seen some white slabs in Bashkiria.
This made the scientist start the search. In 1998,
after having formed a team of his students, Chuvyrov
launched the work. He hired a helicopter, and the first
expedition was flying around of the places where the
slabs were supposed to be. Though, despite all efforts,
the ancient slabs were not found. Chuvyrov was very
upset and even thought the slabs were just a beautiful
legend.
The luck was unexpected. During one of Chuvyrov's
trips to the village, ex-chairman of the local
agricultural council, Vladimir Krainov, came to him
(apropos, in the house of Krainov's father, archaelogist
Schmidt once stayed) and said: "Are you searching for
some stone slabs? I have a strange slab in my yard."
"At first, I did not take that report seriously, -
Chuvyrov told. - Though, I decided to go to that yard to
see it. I remember this day exactly: July 21, 1999.
Under the porch of the house, the slab with some dents
lied. The slab was so heavy that we together could not
take it out. So I went to the city of Ufa, to ask for
help."
In a week, work was launched in Chandar. After having
dug out the slab, the searches were struck with its
size: it was 148 cm high, 106 cm wide and 16 cm thick.
It weighed at least one ton. The master of the house
made special wooden rollers, so the slab was rolled out
from the hole. The find was called "Dashka's stone" (in
honour of Alexandr Chuvyrov's granddaughter born the day
before it) and transported to the university for
investigation. After the slab was cleaned of earth, the
scientists could not believe their eyes...
"At first sight, - Chuvyrov says, - I understood that
was not a simple stone piece, but a real map, and not a
simple map, but a three-dimensional. You can see it
yourself."
Part 2.
John Winston. jo...@mlode.com
Rev. 11D Meow!
The Brew For Galactic Fnords!!!
patrick15-May-2004, 10:47 AM
Hi,
Not sure if this topic is in the right place, but I can give it a try.
There are many sites about these stones (Ica stones) , for example at:
http://www.weirdvideos.com/ancient2.html
http://genesismission.4t.com/dinosaurs/Ica_stones.html
http://genesismission.4t.com/dinosaurs/Ica_stones-1.jpg
http://www.weirdvideos.com/cabrera6.jpg
In short:....more than 15,000 stones which is still a fraction of all
the stones still out there. The stones themselves are composed of
andesite, a very hard mineral (6° on the MOH scale) that would make
etching quite difficult with primitive tools.They are covered with a
natural varnish that is created by bacteria over thousands of years. It
would take days and thousands of blows to carve each of the Ica stones,
even with steel tools.
Im am interested other's opinion about them. Are they ancient art or
just a hoax?
If it is ancient, how can somebody etched a man with telescope on them,
before the telescope was invented even.
If it is a hoax (with a magnitude like) than it would need vast
resources of labor. Why would anyone go to the trouble of carving
pictures in stone ?
ADDED:
Yet natives of the area can be seen today making etchings on stones in
the style of the Ica Stones to sell to tourists. But the distinction
between their product and the "genuine" stones is that the newly
etched stones clearly scrape away all of the varnish.
Unfortunately, it's impossible to date the Ica Stones. Radiocarbon
dating can only be used on artifacts that contain organic material
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Archer1715-May-2004, 11:41 AM
Welcome to the board Patrick. To be honest, I never heard of Ica stones
so I tried snopes.com.. nothing. Did find something at the Skeptic's
Dictionary site here (http://skepdic.com/icastones.html). For balance,
it has some further references at the bottom that provide links to
"non-skeptical" sites as well.
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patrick15-May-2004, 11:54 AM
Hi,
I looked at the site. The article however somethimes refers on several
occasions to 'Extraterrestrialites and the Creationists', which is
something I hope to avoid in this topic, since that will not offer a
fruitful basis, I think, to understand if they are really ancient and
mysterious or a well organized hoax.
Anyhow the article sums it nicely, although not giving a real answer:
Are the stones authentic? If by authentic one means that they were
engraved by pre-Columbians, then the answer has to be an unqualified
"not all of them." Some engraved stones are said to have been brought
back to Spain in the 16th century. It is possible that some of the
stones are truly examples of pre-Columbian art.
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Sam515-May-2004, 03:57 PM
I don't trust these things. I think I first saw them in one of Eric
von Daniken's books back in the '60s, then they turned up in an
"In Search Of" documentary in the '70s. They all look like the
same kind of rock carved with an iron chisel. The thin lines look too
sharp to have been carved with another rock, so they look like
they've been carved with iron or steel tools, or maybe a
diamond-tipped rotary tool on a Dremel drill. The modern Indians in the
US Southwest use Dremel drills to carve fine lines in stones used for
jewelry.
The artwork looks mostly like a "modern primitive" style, and not a
classical Indian style. Some of the artwork shows 3-D perspective on a
flat 2-D background which is nearly unknown in primitive Indian art.
For 3-D images they would mold pots or carve rocks into single 3-D
images such as people's heads. The dinosaur engravings are too white
(indicating a lack of patina) to be millions of years old, and I
don't think there were any dinosaurs around in the past few hundred
years. The doctor who has the museum and is trying to sell his book
could have commissioned these to be carved.
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Sam515-May-2004, 04:07 PM
Here's a picture of a local guy making some of the stones.
http://viewzone.com/dino-faker.jpg
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patrick15-May-2004, 05:56 PM
The artwork looks mostly like a "modern primitive" style, and not a
classical Indian style.
The style itself does ressemble that from the Moche, Northern Peru.
(around 100 A.D. if I am correct)
http://www.tribalarts.com/feature/moche/large/6.jpg
http://www.naya.org.ar/postcards/imagenes/ceramica06.jpg
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Gullible Jones15-May-2004, 06:23 PM
Umm...
Sorry, but I don't quite see the resemblance there. Not that I'm an
expert or anything.
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patrick15-May-2004, 06:40 PM
Neither am I an expert :)
The images I've seen so far have some things in common:
A chin sticking out, hair/helmet sticking out behind the neck,
hawk-like nose and art that doesn't have gradient shadings in them.
I probably should look for better examples, anyway.
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Sam515-May-2004, 10:52 PM
The artwork looks mostly like a "modern primitive" style, and not a
classical Indian style.
The style itself does ressemble that from the Moche, Northern Peru.
(around 100 A.D. if I am correct)
To me, the Ica stones look like a modern imitation of the Moche style.
Note that the Moche style generally shows side views, profiles, similar
to the ancient Egyptian style. The Egyptians had figured enough out
about 3-D art on 2-D surfaces to have bodies facing forward and heads
facing sideways, or vice versa. But they didn't have 3/4 views of
people depicted on a 2-D flat surface (if I recall correctly). This
type of art wasn't invented until later.
Look for the Ica picture of the triceratops. That's a modern 3/4 view
on a 2-D surface. That's modern art, done by someone who has seen
modern drawings that show 3/4 views. The ancient Moche didn't have
prior 3/4 views on a 2-D surface to look at, nor did the ancient
Egyptians. So they drew in outline, either a side view or a straight on
front view, with heads turned sideways, but not in a modern 3/4 view.
If they wanted to do real 3-D art, they would use sculpture or 3-D clay
figures.
I learned this from studying North American Indian art in petroglyphs.
The 3/4 views didn't start to be used in rock drawings until after
the Spanish brought paintings and drawings to the Western Hemisphere.
I'm not an expert on this, but that's my opinion.
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Russ15-May-2004, 11:27 PM
Hi,
sinp
http://genesismission.4t.com/dinosaurs/Ica_stones-1.jpg
I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that the one image is of
someone using a telescope. While the artist may have intended that, it
could also be a depiction of a person trying to play a type of whistle
musical instrument (flute, pennywhistle, nose flute, etc.). I'll admit
that I have no experteese on this subject but, from a scientific peer
review standpoint, there are other interpretations of the evidence. :)
I will say that this is a very interesting topic and look forward to
learning more as persons better informed than I am, weigh in. :) :D 8)
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Sam516-May-2004, 12:14 AM
Even in the best of the Mayan art, they didn't do 3/4 views.
Everything in the 2-D paintings looks flat, with almost no depth.
Either side views of bodies or profiles. The heads are almost always
shown in profile.
LINK (http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/maya/masters.htm)
LINK (http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/maya/women.htm)
LINK (http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/maya/ahaus.htm)
This Ica "heart" drawing looks like a modern drawing copied out of
a medical book.
LINK (http://www.weirdvideos.com/cabrtran.jpg)
The modern heart drawing doesn't fit in with the much more primitive
drawings of people. If the ancients could draw hearts like this, they
could also draw people more realistically. It doesn't make any sense
that they could draw a perfect heart but only crude Moche-like figures
of people.
This triceratops drawing is what I call a 3/4 view, and it is not
natural for primitive artists to draw like this. This looks like a copy
of a drawing seen in a modern book about dinosaurs.
LINK (http://genesismission.4t.com/dinosaurs/Ica_stones-2.jpg)
I think the humans are done in profile (side view) in the Ica art
because they are copies of Moche art from the Moche pottery, but the
triceratops and heart are 3/4 views because they were copied from
modern books. So, the modern artist is mixing two art styles: ancient
Moche, and modern book illustrations.
I've been to Central America several times, and some of the local
artists there duplicate ancient Mayan statues, and they look so real I
can't tell if the are old or not. The artists bury them in the ground
for a while and they heat some of them unevenly to make them look old,
but they duplicate the Mayan art, and they usually don't try to adapt
modern images into the old Mayan style.
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patrick16-May-2004, 03:36 PM
Everything in the 2-D paintings looks flat, with almost no depth.
Either side views of bodies or profiles
I agree with that. all ancient paintings seems to be depthless. The
triceratops drawing from your link would make the stone a forgery based
on that criterium.
It has to be noted that most drawings on these stones (at least the
onces I've seen) do appear depthless however.
It thus still leaves me with a question regarding the authentic ones.
Forgeries nowadays are sold mainly as tourist souvenirs, which raises
another question of how many forgeries there are out there. Yet the
initial discovery was centuries ago, before tourism would affect the
region. The stones were first seen and recorded by Jesuit missionary
Father Simon, who accompanied Pizarro in 1525. Samples were shipped to
Spain in 1562.
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Sam516-May-2004, 04:51 PM
It thus still leaves me with a question regarding the authentic ones.
Forgeries nowadays are sold mainly as tourist souvenirs, which raises
another question of how many forgeries there are out there. Yet the
initial discovery was centuries ago, before tourism would affect the
region. The stones were first seen and recorded by Jesuit missionary
Father Simon, who accompanied Pizarro in 1525. Samples were shipped to
Spain in 1562.
It is quite possible that some old Moche pottery and carved stones were
sent to Spain in 1562 by Father Simon. In fact Columbus and Cortez sent
Indian artwork to Spain. They even sent Indians to Spain. But I doubt
if anyone back then ever sent any dinosaur pictures to Spain. Spain
still has an extensive archives of the exploration era, which modern
treasure hunters study all the time, but I've never heard of anyone
turning up any dinosaur pictures in the Spanish archives.
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Rue16-May-2004, 06:20 PM
Are they ancient art or just a hoax?
If it is ancient, how can somebody etched a man with telescope on them,
before the telescope was invented even.
If it is a hoax (with a magnitude like) than it would need vast
resources of labor. Why would anyone go to the trouble of carving
pictures in stone ?
I had heard that these were admitted to be a hoax. But then the others
said that the hoaxers were just saying this to avoid prosecution. (from
laws against exporting cultural artifacts).
Obviously some stones were sent overseas.
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beskeptical17-May-2004, 03:14 AM
I have seen a bit of this before. Another clue to its hoax origin is
the fact that the images are not seen on artifacts nor walls from any
other Precolumbian sites. You would expect to see at least some of the
images on more than just those stones, but you don't.
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cenwyn17-May-2004, 09:35 AM
They're a hoax. In fact, I believe that James Randi (who is something
of an expert on Peruvian artifacts) went to check it out. In his book,
"Flim Flam", he discusses how if you talked to a particular Peruvian
dentist about your occupation, he'd leave the room, you'd hear drills
grinding, and he'd come back with an Ica stone showing that exact
occupation...FROM ANCIENT TIMES.
So yeah, I'd say they're faked.
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patrick17-May-2004, 05:01 PM
A bit off topic, but would it be a good addition to this website if
there was a board added named something like 'Ancient mysteries'?
There are so many intriguing findings and discoveries done, that there
would be plenty of topics to talk about from a scientific viewpoint. To
name some of many:
- Oronteus Finaeus World Map ; depicting Antartica before it was
discovered
- Abydos helicopter (hieroglyphs depicting flying vehicles); this one
is debunked however.
- Yonaguni monuments; underwater, pre-ice age structures in Japan
- Silver mine metallic spheres (extraction of hundreds metallic spheres
out of deep rock)
- Dashka's stone (an ancient real three-dimensional relief map)
- Egyptian carvings in Australia
- Coso Artifact (debunked currently)
- age of the Sphinx
etc.
It's just an idea....
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Archer1717-May-2004, 05:18 PM
We touched on a lot of the things you mention but the BA wants this to
be an astronomy-based site. I don't think you'll see an
archaeological-based forum added any time soon .. but there would be no
problem starting threads in BABBling on these topics.
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Gullible Jones18-May-2004, 12:46 AM
Metallic spheres? Can't things like that be formed by natural
processes? (Things such as cave pearls, for example. Large ones can be
close to perfectly spherical, IIRC.)
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patrick18-May-2004, 08:18 AM
Here is an example of a sphere:
http://www.chez.com/lesovnis/htm/transvaalspheres.htm
Some other interesting subjects would be
- Dropa stones (ancient metal discs)
- underwater structures found in Cuba
I am sure an extra board about 'ancient artifacts' would appeal to many
here. There is no other forum available, as far as I know, that deals
with these things scientificaly.
It is a pitty most of such findings are explained as extra-terrestrial,
overlooking any possible way of finding a more mondane explaination.
=========================================
I found some petrified kid's knee stones
in the back yard one day.