Diana's Autopsy
Kevin Warren
Globe says it obtained from people close to the royal household and the
royal coroner. Apparently, the Globe took this info to Dr. Robert
Goldberg, who gave his interpretation of the info the Globe had
received. It seems our good Dr. Goldberg is a fellow with, you guessed
it, the Royal Society of Medicine in London. Clearly, our Dr. Goldberg
is an independent, unbiased source.
Much of what the doctor says is nonsense. But I think this article is
important in that it gives us a hint of the line that will be taken by
the British authorities in the upcoming royal inquest.
Kevin Warren
http://www.anaserve.com/~wethepeople/diforum.htm
-------------------------------------------------
Anatomy of a Princess
The Globe
August 22, 2000
As weak sunlight filtered through the early-morning mist surrounding the
mortuary in Fulham, London, the body of beautiful Diana, Princess of
Wales, was cut open to reveal the terrible internal injuries that caused
her death.
Stunning in life, Diana’s body still had a exquisite aura of dignity and
grace as the white sheet covering her was pulled away by the surgical
team.
For the pathologists involved, it was the most chilling post-mortem they
had ever conducted – a regrettable but necessary operation to lay bare
just how the princess died.
Until now, the facts uncovered by Diana’s autopsy have never been
revealed.
They are locked away in a top secret file awaiting the day that an
inquest is held.
Even then, much of the evidence will probably be heard “in camera,” a
Latin phrase which means that the proceedings will remain secret.
But Globe has piece together the painful details of the operation with
information provided by palace sources, official papers and insiders
close to the office of Her Majesty’s Coroner.
The evidence was reviewed for GLOBE by Dr. Robert H. Goldberg, a medical
examiner from Marietta, Ga., who is a fellow of the Royal Society of
Medicine and has extensive autopsy and emergency room experience.
He says: “The medical examiner’s report attrributed her death to the
internal hemorrhaging due toa crushed thorax and to a phenomenon of
deceleration which caused a rupture of the left pulmonary vein.
“Crushed thorax means that most, if not all, of her ribs were broken.
The deceleration of hitting the wall snapped her ribs from front to
back.
“It caused the breastbone to push the heart back, ripping the left
pulmonary vein, which is usually eleastic. This vein, one of the most
vital in the body, providing oxygenated blood from the lungs to be
pumped by the heart to the rest of the body, could not withstand the
forces of deceleration and was severed. Blood poured into Diana’s chest
cavity, displacing her organs.
“At the same time, these forces ripped the pericardial sac – the
protective membrane around the heart – at the root of the aorta. That
sac is very strong, like parchment.
“Can you imagine the pericardium – as strong as it was – being severed
along with the vein? That gives a graphic picture of the forces exerted
on Diana’s body. The structures inside her chest were compressed and
the force caused the sac and the vein to rip.”
The princess was bleeding from the mouth, nose and ears after the crash.
Says Dr. Goldberg: “The bleeding from the ears suggests a fracture to
the base and/or fractured vertebrae in her neck. Her brain would have
been shaken like the clapper inside a bell, and the tissue would have
been bloody, bruised and torn.”
Some witnesses believe chauffeur Henri Paul had gunned the Mercedes to
more than 100 mph as it neared the death tunnel in Paris.
When it hit pillar 13 inside the structure, it decelerated to zero in a
split second.
According to Dr. Goldberg, that means Diana’s body would have
experienced a gravitational force of more than five Gs, causing massive
stress on her internal organs.
“Under those forces, someone weighing 100 pounds suddenly weighs 500,”
explains Dr. Goldberg. “Diana’s heart, too, would have weighed five
times more than usual and would have tugged at the support structures
before tearing away.
“Cerebral and spinal shock would have ensued, and her nervous system
would have shut down.
“She was almost immediately comatose. If she felt anything at all, it
would have been great pressure because her chest was being crushed and
she wasn’t able to breathe. The shock would have been so overwhelming,
there would have been virtually no feeling and no memory.”
Although some crash witnesses said Diana was briefly conscious and even
asked about her sons, Dr. Goldberg believes the princess was incapable
of speech.
“If blood was coming from her mouth, which is an airway, there might
have been sounds that people mistook for words. Any movement she made
might have been due to seizures. Even a minute of remote consciousness
would be difficult to imagine,” he says.
The team of pathologists cut Diana’s body from the breast-bone to pubic
bone, a Y-shaped incision that allowed them to remove her internal
organs and preserve them for testing. Blood was taken from her heart,
urine from her bladder, bile from her gall-bladder and vitreous fluid
from her eyes for toxicology analysis.
Despite stories from Paris that the princess was pregnant, it was clear
there was no developing fetus in her womb.
A cut was made from ear to ear, across the back of her head and her
scalp was plled back to expose her skull, which was then opened. The
doctors noted the areas of bruising and collected blood released by the
violent motion of the brain inisde the skull. The brain was then
removed and preserved.
Could Diana have survived the crash if she’d been immediately flown by
helicopter to a trauma center? Probably not, says Dr. Goldberg, adding:
“There was nothing anyone could do. In the very unlikely event she had
lived, she would have been in a vegetative state. The Diana the world
knew and loved was lost forever.”
Dawna Kaufmann
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Kevin Warren
Kevin Warren wrote:
Let us hope this is not the case. I have no doubt that the British
authorities will try to get away with an "in camera" hearing if they can.
But if MAF can raise enough cain, and if the public outcry is such, they may
have no choice but to air everything out in opening hearings.
>
>
> But Globe has piece together the painful details of the operation with
> information provided by palace sources, official papers and insiders
> close to the office of Her Majesty’s Coroner.
>
> The evidence was reviewed for GLOBE by Dr. Robert H. Goldberg, a medical
> examiner from Marietta, Ga., who is a fellow of the Royal Society of
> Medicine and has extensive autopsy and emergency room experience.
The Royal Society of Medicine is based in London. There web site is:
http://www.roysocmed.ac.uk/index.htm
Their connection to the Royal House is detailed at:
http://www.roysocmed.ac.uk/welcom/history.htm
The info pretty much speaks for itself as to whose interests the Royal
Society of Medicine is protecting.
>
>
> He says: “The medical examiner’s report attrributed her death to the
> internal hemorrhaging due toa crushed thorax and to a phenomenon of
> deceleration which caused a rupture of the left pulmonary vein.
If the left pulmonary vein was indeed ruptured by the crash, it begs the
issue why were the emergency personnel pumping on her chest to supposedly
administer CPR? Would this have not had the net effect of forcing blood out
of the already damaged vein, further flooding her chest cavity? Also, has
it not been reported that a ruptured aorta is more typical of a deceleration
crash, not a ruptured pulmonary vein?
>
>
> “Crushed thorax means that most, if not all, of her ribs were broken.
> The deceleration of hitting the wall snapped her ribs from front to
> back.
>
> “It caused the breastbone to push the heart back, ripping the left
> pulmonary vein, which is usually eleastic. This vein, one of the most
> vital in the body, providing oxygenated blood from the lungs to be
> pumped by the heart to the rest of the body, could not withstand the
> forces of deceleration and was severed. Blood poured into Diana’s chest
> cavity, displacing her organs.
The question is, how badly severed was the vein. As more than one doctor
here in the states has pointed out, it could not have been a large tear,
else she would have bled out within minutes. Clearly this did not happen.
>
>
> “At the same time, these forces ripped the pericardial sac – the
> protective membrane around the heart – at the root of the aorta. That
> sac is very strong, like parchment.
>
> “Can you imagine the pericardium – as strong as it was – being severed
> along with the vein? That gives a graphic picture of the forces exerted
> on Diana’s body. The structures inside her chest were compressed and
> the force caused the sac and the vein to rip.”
Poppycock. The vein patently did not "rip." Dr. Goldberg is essentially
following Dr. Mailiez line (or rather one of his later lines): Diana's heart
was ripped out of place, and along with it, the pulmonary vein. It didn't
happen this way. All the available evidence (reports of witnesses hearing
Diana speak, seeing her conscious and moaning, moving, agitating) indicates
Diana's injuries, while serious, were survivable, if Diana had 1, gotten
competent medical care, and 2, been taken to a hospital immediately.
Neither happen that fateful night.
>
>
> The princess was bleeding from the mouth, nose and ears after the crash.
This is new, if is in fact true. There have been reports of a small trickle
of blood on Di's forehead. And I think there was one report by a witness of
small amount of blood around the ears.
This is why it is so important for the French to keep any and all pap photos
under wraps. Without those photos, we can only guess whether a report like
this is true or false.
>
>
> Says Dr. Goldberg: “The bleeding from the ears suggests a fracture to
> the base and/or fractured vertebrae in her neck. Her brain would have
> been shaken like the clapper inside a bell, and the tissue would have
> been bloody, bruised and torn.”
If in fact there was bleeding at the ears. It hasn't been definitely
established, not to my satisfaction. Let's see the crash photos!
>
>
> Some witnesses believe chauffeur Henri Paul had gunned the Mercedes to
> more than 100 mph as it neared the death tunnel in Paris.
>
> When it hit pillar 13 inside the structure, it decelerated to zero in a
> split second.
Notice the sleigh of hand. The purpose of this paragraph is to give the
unlettered the impression that HP hit the wall at 100 mph. Which of course
he didn't. The Globe well knows that by the time he hit the wall he had
slowed up; the impact speed has been estimated at 60 mph.
>
>
> According to Dr. Goldberg, that means Diana’s body would have
> experienced a gravitational force of more than five Gs, causing massive
> stress on her internal organs.
By what impact speed are they basing this on? The actual impact speed of 60
mph, or the implied impact speed of more than 100 mph? But whatever the
impact speed, there certainly would have been great stress on the body. One
thing we really haven't covered is what would the stress be if in fact Di
was down in the seatwell (TRJ or HP having ordered Di and Dodi to hit the
deck). Hypothetically, if Di was in the seatwell (with perhaps Dodi on top
of her, protecting her - no, not giving her a BJ, Alvin), then I would
imagine the stress factors might not have been that great. Perhaps enough to
tear a small whole in the pulmonary vein, but certainly not fatal.
>
>
> “Under those forces, someone weighing 100 pounds suddenly weighs 500,”
> explains Dr. Goldberg. “Diana’s heart, too, would have weighed five
> times more than usual and would have tugged at the support structures
> before tearing away.
Our good Dr. Goldberg is now extrapolating from his original assumption of a
5G impact. Without hard data, it's hard to comment.
>
>
> “Cerebral and spinal shock would have ensued, and her nervous system
> would have shut down.
This seems a stretch to me, to say the least. Clearly, Di's nervous system
did not shut down. You had a woman who was talking, moving, screaming
according to one witness, said "Oh my God," multiple times to a police
officer. This is not a person who has had her nervous system shut down!
>
>
> “She was almost immediately comatose. If she felt anything at all, it
> would have been great pressure because her chest was being crushed and
> she wasn’t able to breathe. The shock would have been so overwhelming,
> there would have been virtually no feeling and no memory.”
More poppycock. But as ridiculous as this is, it reveals to us I believe
one of the lines the Royal Coroner may take during the inquest: essentially,
Di was comatized and for all intents and purposes dead on impact (Malliez's
"her heart was ripped out" nonsense). This also may be why Andanson was
fried to a toast. If he was part of scheme to get photos of the crash scene
out to the public, then its understandable the need to silence him, and
neutralize his photos, with all due haste, especially if the powers that be
expect the inquest to be held relatively soon. One photo made public of a
living, breathing Diana with her eyes open in the wreck of the car will blow
this whole argument out of the water.
>
>
> Although some crash witnesses said Diana was briefly conscious and even
> asked about her sons, Dr. Goldberg believes the princess was incapable
> of speech.
>
> “If blood was coming from her mouth, which is an airway, there might
> have been sounds that people mistook for words. Any movement she made
> might have been due to seizures. Even a minute of remote consciousness
> would be difficult to imagine,” he says.
Here, our good doctor gets desperate. How in the name of god do they get
hacks like Goldberg and Malliez - and second rate hacks at that! - to do
their dirty work? Can't these people, with all their vast resources, find a
halfway decent doctor to lie for them? Or can it be that Di's death has
evoked emotions so strong, and the issues surrounding her demise so well
known to all (murder), that even HM's servants, at least those with half a
brain, want no poart in the coverup? Hence the need to go all the way to
god damn Marietta, Georgia, to find a supplicant willing to mouth the royal
line? I mean, think about it, who the hell wants to go down in history with
Diana's blood on their hands.
Back to the issue at hand: there are plethora of witnesses and evidence,
already covered by me above, and well known to all on this ng, that indicate
that Di was conscious, talking, breathing, moving, for a substantial period
after the crash. To suggest otherwise automatically in my book raises a red
flag to the agenda of anyone trying to deny what is obvious to all.
>
>
> The team of pathologists cut Diana’s body from the breast-bone to pubic
> bone, a Y-shaped incision that allowed them to remove her internal
> organs and preserve them for testing. Blood was taken from her heart,
> urine from her bladder, bile from her gall-bladder and vitreous fluid
> from her eyes for toxicology analysis.
Here is where things get gruesome. Normal procedure for an autopsy, sure,
but gruesome nonetheless.
>
>
> Despite stories from Paris that the princess was pregnant, it was clear
> there was no developing fetus in her womb.
A crucial paragraph. I believe this entire article was for the purpose of
sneaking this paragraph in. Note the almost Clinton-like use of words.
Notice how they don't say, "Blood tests showed unequivocally that Diana was
not pregnant." But rather, "there was no developing fetus in her womb." Of
course there wasn't, the **fetus having been terminated during that one-hour
trip to the hospital**! I believe this is the exact line the royal coroner
will follow. He will pontifically declare, "We found no evidence of a fetus
in Diana." And anyone who dares suggest publicly that the fetus may have
been aborted, will be laughed off the scene by the royal media hacks. The
goal of this paragraph is to box in those of us who have a good idea of what
really transpired on the obscene one-hour ride to the hospital.
The key to countering this paragraph is Diana's blood tests. The French
paper, France-Soir, reported in its Sept 4, 1997 edition, "We have
confirmation that she was nine or ten weeks pregnant. In fact, the analysis
of the blood samples taken from Diana upon arrival of the first rescue
workers indicates the presence of plasmatic beta HCG, which is only produced
in the case of pregnancy." Of course, media reports will not be enough.
MAF will have to obtain hard evidence to prove she was pregnant, and in fact
carrying his grandchild. This means one way or another getting his hands on
the blood tests. However, I doubt even he would be so bold as to suggests
the pregnancy was terminated. But once hard evidence is made public that
she was pregnant, then I think the inevitable question will be, "What
happened to the fetus?"
>
>
> A cut was made from ear to ear, across the back of her head and her
> scalp was plled back to expose her skull, which was then opened. The
> doctors noted the areas of bruising and collected blood released by the
> violent motion of the brain inisde the skull. The brain was then
> removed and preserved.
An interesting tidbit to be sure. They did the same thing with JFK's
brain. Although, of course, eventually the National Archives lost it!
>
>
> Could Diana have survived the crash if she’d been immediately flown by
> helicopter to a trauma center? Probably not, says Dr. Goldberg, adding:
> “There was nothing anyone could do. In the very unlikely event she had
> lived, she would have been in a vegetative state. The Diana the world
> knew and loved was lost forever.”
More rubbish. To answer: Yes, Di most assuredly could have been saved if a
helicopter had wisked her to a hospital (or even a fast ambulance). As for
the vegatitive state, by what does the good Doctor base this on? I would
humbly suggest that the Diana the world knew and loved was lost forever, not
because of injuries suffered in the crash, but because of inept treatment at
the tunnel and an obscene one-hour trip to the hospital, during which the
"doctors" on board were doing god only knows what to the poor woman.
Kevin Warren
http://www.anaserve.com/~wethepeople/diforum.htm
Aleeta E. Johnson
during a feeze.
TIA
Aleeta
--
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
"Kevin Warren" <kwa...@relaypoint.net> wrote in message
news:399F6A1A...@relaypoint.net...
http://www.anaserve.com/~wethepeople/diforum.htm
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Anatomy of a Princess
>
> The Globe
> August 22, 2000
>
> As weak sunlight filtered through the early-morning mist surrounding the
> mortuary in Fulham, London, the body of beautiful Diana, Princess of
> Wales, was cut open to reveal the terrible internal injuries that caused
> her death.
>
> Stunning in life, Diana's body still had a exquisite aura of dignity and
> grace as the white sheet covering her was pulled away by the surgical
> team.
>
> For the pathologists involved, it was the most chilling post-mortem they
> had ever conducted - a regrettable but necessary operation to lay bare
> "At the same time, these forces ripped the pericardial sac - the
> protective membrane around the heart - at the root of the aorta. That
> sac is very strong, like parchment.
>
> "Can you imagine the pericardium - as strong as it was - being severed
kather...@my-deja.com
Kevin Warren <kwa...@relaypoint.net> wrote:
Kevin, I recently came across some posts in another ng with allegations
that your ISP, Relaypoint.net, is owned by the Church of Scientology. I
find it hard to believe that you would use such an ISP considering your
stance on Scientology. I'm sure you are aware of these allegations.
What do you make of it all?
Katherine
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kevin Warren
kather...@my-deja.com wrote:
I have no information about that at all. And quite frankly, I could care
less. I believe in religious freedom for everyone, including the Church of
Scientology (and yes, even the Branch Davidians too). My philosophy is
very simple: to respect other people's right to worship as they please, and
to ask that people respect my right to worship as I please. I personally
think the Scientologist have some strange ideas, but they do have the right
to worship and believe as they wish.
Since as far as I know they are not involved in anything illegal or
contrary to our laws, then its a moot point as far as I am concerned.
Kevin Warren
http://www.anaserve.com/~wethepeople/diforum.htm
Lanark
Kevin Warren wrote:
> The following Globe article on Diana's autopsy was taken from info the
> Globe says it obtained from people close to the royal household and the
> royal coroner. Apparently, the Globe took this info to Dr. Robert
> Goldberg, who gave his interpretation of the info the Globe had
> received. It seems our good Dr. Goldberg is a fellow with, you guessed
> it, the Royal Society of Medicine in London. Clearly, our Dr. Goldberg
> is an independent, unbiased source.
>
Don't show your ignorance. Just because a society has the name Royal in it,
that does not mean it has links to the Windsors! Just think, for a moment.
Is your postman/woman part of the conspiracy too? After all, they work for
the ROYAL Mail, don't they! What about the ROYAL Automobile Club? Did they
provide the know-how to sabotage the Mercedes? Surely the ROYAL Society for
the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals must be involved too. Or the ROYAL
Society for the Protection of Birds! My god, they're everywhere!!
Seriously, though - like it or not (and I for one DON'T like it,) you must
have noticed that we live in a monarchy. Therefore, many institutions have
historical links to the monarchy - though NOT to the present family that
occupies the position.
>
> Much of what the doctor says is nonsense. But I think this article is
> important in that it gives us a hint of the line that will be taken by
> the British authorities in the upcoming royal inquest.
>
By the way, are you a pathologist? Or is it just a layperson's opinion that
what the doctor says is "nonesense"?
GODS...@home.com
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:46:51 +0100, Lanark
<lan...@viriconium.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
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>From: Lanark <lan...@viriconium.fsnet.co.uk>
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.princess-diana
>Subject: Re: Diana's Autopsy
>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:46:51 +0100
>Organization: Netscape Online member
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>
>
>
>Kevin Warren wrote:
>
>> The following Globe article on Diana's autopsy was taken from info the
>> Globe says it obtained from people close to the royal household and the
>> royal coroner. Apparently, the Globe took this info to Dr. Robert
>> Goldberg, who gave his interpretation of the info the Globe had
>> received.
>> Much of what the doctor says is nonsense.
Or even, much of what the doctor is said to have said.
It sounds pretty far off to me. But, as you suggest,
I think it is important to give us some words to use to
begin a consideration and our search for evidence and clues.
>>But I think this article is
>> important in that it gives us a hint of the line that will be taken by
>> the British authorities in the upcoming royal inquest.
>>
>
>By the way, are you a pathologist? Or is it just a layperson's opinion that
>what the doctor says is "nonesense"?
How about more than one layperson's opinion? Such as a grand jury
for instance?
Yours is an interesting question. In order to approach an
intelligible answer we should begin by having you give a
sample answer covering the points that you think should be
considered in arriving at an informed response.
As an example of what I am getting at, people ask me if I
can speak various languages.
My attempt towards stock answer is somewhat to the effect
that if the question is asked in such a way that the question
contains all the words necessary to form a correct answer it
goes a long way towards furthering a satisfactory communication.
Say for instance someone simply asked in a language that I
have not recently been highly developed "Where is the bathroom?"
That takes a tremendous amount of trying to think up recently
unfamiliar words to construct an answer.
If. on the other hand, the other person forms the question including
all the words necessary to construct the answer such as, "Is the
bathroom down the hall and to the left or down the hall and to the
right?" I then only need to delete the incorrect choice as I have been
furnished only seconds before all the words I need to choose the
right answer.
Their are various legal definitions of the word "pathologist" in
different countries having to do with the practice standards.
Going off for instance towards gradients of how much background
a person has towards the field, have they practiced recently,
are they legally licensed to practice in what jurisdictions at the
present time? Are they, or have they been, licensed to practice
in the jurisdiction in which the report under discussion has
been drafted? Etc.
So if you would give a sample answer to your question that
contains all the important words that you think should be considered
by Kevin in the draft, or someone else, if they choose to respond
to the question you have posed, to give us a database for comparison
of the issue in the sought answer it would be welcomed by me.
Thx.
Alvin
<a href="http://members.home.com/godsbrain">G.O.D.S.B.R.A.I.N.</a><br>
Aleeta E. Johnson
Aleeta
--
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
"Lanark" <lan...@viriconium.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:39A0DE6B...@viriconium.fsnet.co.uk...
>
>
> Kevin Warren wrote:
>
> > The following Globe article on Diana's autopsy was taken from info the
> > Globe says it obtained from people close to the royal household and the
> > royal coroner. Apparently, the Globe took this info to Dr. Robert
> > Goldberg, who gave his interpretation of the info the Globe had
> > received. It seems our good Dr. Goldberg is a fellow with, you guessed
> > it, the Royal Society of Medicine in London. Clearly, our Dr. Goldberg
> > is an independent, unbiased source.
> >
>
> Don't show your ignorance. Just because a society has the name Royal in
it,
> that does not mean it has links to the Windsors! Just think, for a moment.
> Is your postman/woman part of the conspiracy too? After all, they work for
> the ROYAL Mail, don't they! What about the ROYAL Automobile Club? Did they
> provide the know-how to sabotage the Mercedes? Surely the ROYAL Society
for
> the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals must be involved too. Or the ROYAL
> Society for the Protection of Birds! My god, they're everywhere!!
>
> Seriously, though - like it or not (and I for one DON'T like it,) you must
> have noticed that we live in a monarchy. Therefore, many institutions have
> historical links to the monarchy - though NOT to the present family that
> occupies the position.
>
> >
> > Much of what the doctor says is nonsense. But I think this article is
> > important in that it gives us a hint of the line that will be taken by
> > the British authorities in the upcoming royal inquest.
> >
>
> By the way, are you a pathologist? Or is it just a layperson's opinion
that
> what the doctor says is "nonesense"?
kather...@my-deja.com
Kevin Warren <kwa...@relaypoint.net> wrote:
>
>
> kather...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > In article <399F6A1A...@relaypoint.net>,
> > Kevin Warren <kwa...@relaypoint.net> wrote:
> >
> > Kevin, I recently came across some posts in another ng with
allegations
> > that your ISP, Relaypoint.net, is owned by the Church of
Scientology. I
> > find it hard to believe that you would use such an ISP considering
your
> > stance on Scientology. I'm sure you are aware of these allegations.
> > What do you make of it all?
> >
> > Katherine
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
> I have no information about that at all. And quite frankly, I could
care
> less.
I'm surprised that you couldn't care less. Usually, you are quite
concerned about monolithic organizations and alleged plans for world
domination. Are you not even curious or suspicious in the least?
Here are the links to a ng post and their websites with some pretty
detailed info. They also have a list of email addresses and websites
many of which they claim are Scientology-owned businesses or fronts.
Laura's email address is listed on one of those pages. I think she
might like to know that.
1) Deja post:
http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=fs]/getdoc.xp?
AN=515784230&CONTEXT=966811674.444596235&hitnum=15
2)"Further Evidence that RelayPoint.NET is a Scientology company"
(Their Title, not mine)
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/coswops1.htm
3) Members List & Explanation, etc:
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/rppublic.htm
4) More Info:
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/relaypnt.htm
I believe in religious freedom for everyone, including the Church of
> Scientology (and yes, even the Branch Davidians too). My philosophy
is
> very simple: to respect other people's right to worship as they
please, and
> to ask that people respect my right to worship as I please. I
personally
> think the Scientologist have some strange ideas, but they do have the
right
> to worship and believe as they wish.
>
> Since as far as I know they are not involved in anything illegal or
> contrary to our laws, then its a moot point as far as I am concerned.
I agree with the freedom to worship as well. Do you feel that way for
Jews and Catholics (as part of the Vatican) as well?
For some reason I thought you had taken part in this ng's discussions
about Scientology last year. However, upon searching through those
threads, I see you did not.
Steve discussed Mossad, ADL and B'nai B'rith links to Scientology and
said:
"...who were the dinner guests Diana and Dodi were to meet at Chez
Benoit? If Buti was one of them, where is he now?...Playing golf with
Scientologists apparently - very sinister lot - Mossad connections too -
tried to scuttle the Spotlight, for one thing...Buti knows them
apparently. Private planes are very handy for moving large amounts of
heroin and cocaine aren't they?....I'll have to hunt through my back-
numbers of the Spotlight (you know how it is) Several inconveniently
frank and free-thinking institutions, such as the Institute For
Historical Review and the Spotlight itself, have come under attack from
groups within Scientology which also had links to the ADL of B'nai
B'rith. This makes their members suspected supernumeraries of Mossad -
and the selective targeting of their attacks (on Nationalist critics of
the Israeli lobby) virtually confirms it. The penetration of Hollywood
by the "Org" is especially interesting and disquieting, however. These
people know how to go for the jugular - through which the dream-
consciousness (of the more affluent 25% of humanity) flows."
And:
"I cannot help feeling that Seidel's book is not exactly an objective
source, in this area. I do know that the IHR was infiltrated and taken
over by people connected with Scientology and the ADL some years ago.
Hence it's massive, predatory litigation against Liberty Lobby (which
is otherwise rather baffling) It would be interesting to compare the
IHR's output BEFORE this happened with whatever it is publishing now."
I've seen you post on Mossad, B'Nai B'rith, Isreal/Judaism, and I
believe the Vatican. Do you share any of the same beliefs as Steve in
the above quotes about these organizations? Do you believe differently
than Steve then about Scientology as being "suspected supernumeraries
of Mossad", etc?
Aleeta E. Johnson
Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar with
the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a church
to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
Aleeta
--
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
<kather...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8nru97$2d3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Kevin Warren
"Aleeta E. Johnson" wrote:
> Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
> Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar with
> the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
> from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
> believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a church
> to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
>
> Aleeta
I found the links interesting reading. There is a great deal of claims made,
but nothing remotely connecting Relaypoint with anything unsavory let alone
criminal. Yes, Stafeno may be a Scientologist. But so is Tom Cruise and John
Travoltta. Does that mean that Cruise and Travoltta are involved in all the
unsavory things claimed of the Church of Scientology? Of course not! Lots of
other famous, and not so famous, people are Scientologist. Does it mean they
are guilty of the doings of a few corrupt people? No, I don't believe so. I
don't know any Scientologist personally, but I see them all the time in
Hollywood, and I have found them to be unfailingly polite and well-mannered.
It may be that, as with the peace and enviormentalist movements, that the
rank-and-file are naive and in the dark to the true agenda of their leaders.
But that's certainly nothing new.
But let's assume a worst case, that the Scientologist, and Relaypoint, is
guilty of everything claimed in the links. My response is simple: What the
hell do you expect? America at this time is in an advanced stage of decay.
The decay is everywhere, and touches everything. And every American supports
it, including every American who is a poster to this ng. Don't think so? Walk
into you neighborhood bank. I guarantee you with a 100% certainty if that bank
is of any appreciable size it is up to its neck in drug money laundering.
Guaranteed! And what about your tax dollars? Don't they go to support the
government? And who do you think is the biggest drug dealer in the world
today? The US government! During the decade of the 80's, when the crack
cocaine epidemic took off, it was estimated that the US government was
responsible for bringing in up to two-thirds of the illegal narcotics that were
used in this country, hundreds and hundreds of tons of cocaine and other
drugs. This is straight fact. The CIA has now admitted, in Volume II of its
Inspector Generals report, that it engaged in a criminal conspiracy with the
Justice Dept. so its agents, contract agents, and assets, could deal drugs
without fear of prosecution. This conspiracy was directly responsible for tens
of thousands of people killed through drug addiction and related gang violence.
This pales in comparison to anything the Scientologist might be guilty of and
to my mind approaches Nuremberg dimensions. This confession by the CIA is
official. It's on the books. It's in black and white.
You would be hard pressed to find an ISP in this country who is not guilty of
the things claimed of Relaypoint, although they might not be as brazen as the
Scientologist. Any ISP or web hoster in this country who has obtained any
significant bank financing defacto is supporting the drug culture, because
there is not a major bank is this country that doesn't launder drug money. And
remember a few months ago when Richard Grasso, head of the New York Stock
Exchange, went down to Columbia and offered to help the narco-terrorist FARC to
invest in the Big Board? It's drug money and all the corruption that goes with
it that Grasso was grabbing for, and you can bet the FARC will be only too
willing to oblige. The US today is kept afloat by an enormous financial bubble
which in turn is kept inflated by drug money and it attendant corruption.
Every single American is guilty of keeping this drug economy going; and every
American is affected by it. You can't escape it.
This is the bad news. The good news is that this system is going down.
Shortly after the US elections, the entire world financial system will crash.
This is as certain as the sun rises and sets. Within a year to 18 months,
Great Depression type conditions are a distinct possibility. Only once the
American people have experienced real pain and hardship, will they be willing
to listen to reason and end this insanity such as we see with the drug economy,
the related financial bubble, which have permeated, and corrupted, every facet
of American life.
Kevin Warren
http://www.anaserve.com/~wethepeople/diforum.htm
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
Aleeta E. Johnson
I am not interested in or with the influence of John Travolta, of whom I
loathe nor Tom Cruise, or any Hollywood figure who is dumb enough to get
involved with a "cult." A cult is a cult and that is exactly what
Scientology is all about. It's as bad as
going overboard into conspiracy. In as much as I believe conspiracy does
exist but even so it has it's limits. Those organizations that have wronged
us, will one day pay the piper. There are many things in life of which we
have no control but we as citizens can do our utmost to try and uphold what
is important to us and those of whom we hold dear. It almost sounds as
though you are excusing them and that in itself causes me to wonder. As I
stated, and I stand behind this, is that Scientology, is for the weak minded
individuals and the greedy, the very greedy.
Now you go on to say that our economy is going to tragically fall. The old
saying, what goes up must come down, is true but I don't think it will be
the proportions of which you speak. I've heard this so many times and by
the experts as well and it never happens. I do believe that we can only
endure this for so long but you sound as though your are a prophet. Do you
know the day or the hour? Why of course you don't and neither does anyone
else, not even Lyndon La Rouche. I think you are into this conspiracy a bit
too deep as it can swallow you up. I have always had a very curious mind,
but I have the good sense to know when to lay off and I follow my own
instincts very well and always just in time.
Aleeta
--
"Truth Needs Not Many Words."
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
"Kevin Warren" <kwa...@relaypoint.net> wrote in message
news:39A62FBD...@relaypoint.net...
kather...@my-deja.com
Kevin Warren <kwa...@relaypoint.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Aleeta E. Johnson" wrote:
>
> > Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that
Scientology
> > Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm
familiar with
> > the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I
speak
> > from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals
and
> > believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called
a church
> > to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
> >
> > Aleeta
>
> I found the links interesting reading. There is a great deal of
claims made,
> but nothing remotely connecting Relaypoint with anything unsavory let
alone
> criminal. Yes, Stafeno may be a Scientologist. But so is Tom
Cruise and John
> Travoltta. Does that mean that Cruise and Travoltta are involved in
all the
> unsavory things claimed of the Church of Scientology?
I don't know.
Of course not! Lots of
> other famous, and not so famous, people are Scientologist. Does it
mean they
> are guilty of the doings of a few corrupt people? No, I don't
believe so.
How can you be so sure?
I also have no problem with Scientology, but would not be interested in
joining. My point was not the alleged crimes of Relaypoint or
Scientolgoy, but the allegation that Relaypoint is owned by the Church
of Scientology and/or a front for. We have been asked by a few of the
foremost conspiracy promoters in the acpd to be suspicious of
Scientology as some sinister monolithic organization that it is linked
to the NWO, which is linked to the death of Diana, which is one of the
raisons d'etre of the acpd (the NWO, not Diana).
As one of the foremost conspiracy promoters of the acpd, I thought you
would be dismayed that you subscribe to such an ISP or would counter-
argue with some sound information that refutes these allegations.
Instead, you are completely unphased and don't even care, which makes
me wonder all sorts of things. Perhaps the theories posited here are
just that and are not really believed by the posters themselves. Or
perhaps they just don't practice what they preach, in that they support
in their private lives the very organizations they publicly denounce.
I agree that we would be hard pressed to find a LARGE ISP that wasn't
owned by some large corporation or affiliated with. However, Relaypoint
is not such an ISP, but rather is a small, local ISP, which I beleive
would be difficult to even know existed except by word of mouth.
>
> This is the bad news. The good news is that this system is going
down.
> Shortly after the US elections, the entire world financial system
will crash.
> This is as certain as the sun rises and sets. Within a year to 18
months,
> Great Depression type conditions are a distinct possibility. Only
once the
> American people have experienced real pain and hardship, will they be
willing
> to listen to reason and end this insanity such as we see with the
drug economy,
> the related financial bubble, which have permeated, and corrupted,
every facet
> of American life.
Oh really? How can you be so certain? Are you inciting the the posters
of acpd to cash in their stocks, retirement plans and remove their
savings from the banks, i.e, to panic? If you are so certain of the
impending collapse of our financial institutions, why do you only
privilege the acpd with this vital information? The acpd is only one of
the many conspiracy ngs on the net, yet you appear only to share this
vital information with the acpd. Why is that?
GODS...@home.com
On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:09:46 -0700, "Aleeta E. Johnson"
<alee...@mindspring.com> wrote:
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>From: "Aleeta E. Johnson" <alee...@mindspring.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.princess-diana
>Subject: Re: Diana's Autopsy
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:09:46 -0700
>Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
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>
>Kevin,
>
>I am not interested in or with the influence of John Travolta, of whom I
>loathe nor Tom Cruise, or any Hollywood figure who is dumb enough to get
>involved with a "cult." A cult is a cult and that is exactly what
>Scientology is all about. It's as bad as
>going overboard into conspiracy. In as much as I believe conspiracy does
>exist but even so it has it's limits. Those organizations that have wronged
>us, will one day pay the piper. There are many things in life of which we
>have no control but we as citizens can do our utmost to try and uphold what
>is important to us and those of whom we hold dear. It almost sounds as
>though you are excusing them and that in itself causes me to wonder. As I
>stated, and I stand behind this, is that Scientology, is for the weak minded
>individuals and the greedy, the very greedy.
>
>Now you go on to say that our economy is going to tragically fall. The old
>saying, what goes up must come down, is true but I don't think it will be
>the proportions of which you speak. I've heard this so many times and by
>the experts as well and it never happens. I do believe that we can only
>endure this for so long but you sound as though your are a prophet. Do you
>know the day or the hour? Why of course you don't and neither does anyone
>else, not even Lyndon La Rouche. I think you are into this conspiracy a bit
>too deep as it can swallow you up.
Having one's head up one's ass can do a pretty thourough job too!
>I have always had a very curious mind,
Well, each to his/her own.
>but I have the good sense
You'll need that to understand what's comming up.
>to know when to lay off and
No comment.
>I follow my own instincts
Following one's own end stinks can lead to
having one's head up their ass/backside/rectum. Wrecked'em.
>my own instincts very well
Your own end stinks very well?
I've heard some people say "their
shit doesn't stink" butt now I've got
an idea where it comes from.
>just in time.
Before the head exits the mouth?
Talk about being tied up.
Or going around in a circle.
>
>Aleeta
>
Aleeta my dear please pardon me for being
in such a perverse mood this morning, I
don't think it was at all your fault. You
just happened to be standing by when I went
into this mood of being contrary.
I have been thinking that humanity have all
been furnished by God with a set of paints.
Drawing tools if you will, which we use to
communicate.
Everything can be viewed as having a counterbalance.
Good/Bad, Hot/Cold, Fast/Slow and on and on. At
any instant when we wish to communicate our
momentary opinion/reaction to some element of our
environment, or another person's position, we grab
a tool of expression. So while some thing relative
to another we might momentarily call "hot" at another
moment refering the thing to something else we would
refer to it as "cold."
The thing about "following one's own instincts" means
to me that at that instant in a case where there is
only two you are not going to follow the other's lead.
Kind of like a non sexist dance where some times one
leads and at other times the other leads. And of course
the other follows.
I hope that you see my intent to only show an example
of the moment and you just chanced by at the time
and got thrown in to the role of straight man or what
ever the other side is.
Positive and negative. Like if one wants to construct
a response to a post and one takes a positive stance
one gets one side. If someone else, or at another time,
one wants to take a negative stance you get the other
side.
What can a Public Relation's firm sell for money
if not taking or promoting a position other than
the status quo? So if one is going to take a position
for argument's sake it has got to be something
differnt from where things stand at the moment.
Faster/Slower? Lefter/Righter? Anything to be different.
So anything to be different. If one then has to
choose, what factors govern the choice at the moment?
Got me? But if one is going to do something they have
got to do something. Not just stand idly by and wait
for the money to roll in. How long is who going to pay
a mechanic if the mechanic is not working on the car?
So do something. But what if one does not know what to
do? What if what ever they do is actually going to make
things worse rather than better?
If a brain surgeon is given as an only tool to operate a
scalple tied to the prow of a battle ship and their
only choice is to stand in the captains cabin and
instruct the pilot how to steer the ship how good of a
job of brain surgery
can they hope to accomplish? But if their only choice
is to operate or not operate and if they don't operate
they don't
earn their daily bread what are they going to do?
Operate or die of starvation. Unless someone else stops
them. If someone else stops them that then forces them
into starvation. Unless the one stopping them sent
food. How many police cars have you seen stocked with
food and diapers? Not many, me. It just doesn't seem to
be in the nature of things.
In the personal interaction of all people no two people
are exactly at the same ... Like is the thermostat too
high or too low? Are we going too fast or too slow?
Should we spend more money and get better quality or
should we spend less money and get the hell out of here,
etc.
If the chauffeur is approaching a "Y" in the road and
one of two passengers wants to go left and and the
other wants to tend to the right who's end stinks should
the chauffeur follow?
I am most interested in developing our tools of expression
here in ACPD so that as we approach decision points
where we may have a choice to express our own opinion at
that time as to whether the group should tend to one path
or another we will then have a ready developed set of
tools, verbal, linguistic, to express ourselves.
Some soundly used words and phrases of expression you
have done a nice job of including in your posts and this
one included. In your comments above I just saw the
counter balance phraseology and was not so much trying
to be anti your opinion so much as just putting in
some relative expressions to some of the terminology
but not disagreeing with what you said.
I hope that that patches things up a little bit.
Your friend, Alvin :-)
Maybe also put, you fellow acpd poster.
<a href="http://members.home.com/godsbrain">G.O.D.S.B.R.A.I.N.</a><br>
Cromwell
> The following Globe article on Diana's autopsy was taken from info the
> Globe says it obtained from people close to the royal household and the
> royal coroner.
The Globe is from the same stable as the National Enquirer. Both
publications have no quarms reproducing hoaxes and inventing stories. A
proper examination of this article, would have always have this in mind.
Apparently, the Globe took this info to Dr. Robert
> Goldberg, who gave his interpretation of the info the Globe had
> received. It seems our good Dr. Goldberg is a fellow with, you guessed
> it, the Royal Society of Medicine in London. Clearly, our Dr. Goldberg
> is an independent, unbiased source.
I noticed other posters have responded to this laughable and ignorant point.
I need say no more.
This is what the article says,
> The evidence was reviewed for GLOBE by Dr. Robert H. Goldberg, a medical
> examiner from Marietta, Ga., who is a fellow of the Royal Society of
> Medicine and has extensive autopsy and emergency room experience.
Maybe it's just me but I know for certain, that the Royal Society is a UK
body. I note elsewhere that Marietta is in Georgia USA. Is this gentleman
from the US?
Are non-UK doctors entitled to be Fellows of the Royal Society? Is Goldberg
a UK citizen working in the USA?
> Much of what the doctor says is nonsense. But I think this article is
> important in that it gives us a hint of the line that will be taken by
> the British authorities in the upcoming royal inquest.
Much of what this alleged doctor say's is internally consistent and makes
medical
sense. Whether what is written here is in Burton post-mortem report,
is a different matter entirely. I doubt that it is.
As for Kevin's references to 'hints', Burton has said loud and clearly, his
inquest will be almost completely dependent on the
French investigation. This is a better indication of what 'line' Burton
will take than anything that Goldberg say's.
<snip>non-essential information.
>
>
> He says: "The medical examiner's report attrributed her death to the
> internal hemorrhaging due toa crushed thorax and to a phenomenon of
> deceleration which caused a rupture of the left pulmonary vein.
**If the left pulmonary vein was indeed ruptured by the crash, it begs the
issue why were the emergency personnel pumping on her chest to supposedly
administer CPR?
Kevin hasn't got any medical knowledge, that is obvious. The reason the
medical personel were using
external cardiac massage on Diana, was because this is the CORRECT
proceedure the world over, for dealing with cardiac arrest.
**Would this have not had the net effect of forcing blood out of the
already
damaged vein, further flooding her chest cavity?
Without CPR, the outcome from cardiac arrest is 100% death. The doctors and
paramedics at the scene - how many times must I repeat this! - COULD NOT
have known that Diana was bleeding from a torn pulmunary
vein and hole in her pericarduim. Kevin is simply counterposing what the
professionals new at the time, against what they didn't know. The medical
professionals, correctly from the standpoint of medical practice, reacted to
a known risk rather than an unknown one.
But what if the devasting wounds to Diana's heart had been known? What
should the medical professionals do then? The answer is exactly the same.
When it comes to cardiac arrest, THERE ARE NO OPTIONS. In the absense of
CPR, the outcome is always death.
Even so, Kevin's observation has nil validity. Yes, the external massage
would continue to pump blood around the circulatory system but this is
always at 1/10 of the normal rate, a vast reduction in output.
**Also, has it not been reported that a ruptured aorta is more typical of a
deceleration crash, not a ruptured pulmonary vein?
Yes. This can be found in Coujards Final Report,
"The same experts pointed to the obviously traumatic origin of the injuries
to the three victims, stating that those suffered by the first two were
frequently observed in severe crash cases, head-on with extreme
deceleration, while those to Lady Diana SPENCER were more unusual and could
probably be explained by the victim's sideways position at the moment of
impact."
<snip>
> "It caused the breastbone to push the heart back, ripping the left
> pulmonary vein, which is usually eleastic. This vein, one of the most
> vital in the body, providing oxygenated blood from the lungs to be
> pumped by the heart to the rest of the body, could not withstand the
> forces of deceleration and was severed. Blood poured into Diana's chest
> cavity, displacing her organs.
**The question is, how badly severed was the vein. As more than one doctor
here in the states has pointed out, it could not have been a large tear,
else she would have bled out within minutes. Clearly this did not happen.
This was not the only injury Kevin. Here are the observations of one of the
men who operated on Diana, Professeur Pavie,
"The Princess's vital functions were being maintained by the resuscitation
efforts. I found that the bleeding was come from a hole in the membrane
around her heart"(Gregory 83)
Diana 'bled out'(the medical term for this is exsanguination)in aprox 35
minutes. I suspect the US doctors Kevin refer, are quoted in DOP.
As is well known, those doctors did not have all the information to make a
determination. They seem blissfully unaware of the cardiac arrests which
marked Diana's condition. We can hardly take their views as final or
exhaustive.
>
> "At the same time, these forces ripped the pericardial sac - the
> protective membrane around the heart - at the root of the aorta. That
> sac is very strong, like parchment.
>
> "Can you imagine the pericardium - as strong as it was - being severed
> along with the vein? That gives a graphic picture of the forces exerted
> on Diana's body. The structures inside her chest were compressed and
> the force caused the sac and the vein to rip."
**Poppycock. The vein patently did not "rip." Dr. Goldberg is essentially
following Dr. Mailiez line (or rather one of his later lines): Diana's heart
was ripped out of place, and along with it, the pulmonary vein. It didn't
happen this way.
The vein patently DID rip. This is an excellent way of describing it.
Remember, this was a wound CAUSED by deceleration, a fact Kevin's seems to
want to deny. As opposed to a blunt or penetrating trauma, a
deceleration wound is caused by the extreme G forces created by an impact.
According to Coujard's Final Report, the Mercedes was traveling at between
95 - 109 k/h. This converts between 59 -67mph. Taking the lower value,
this means the Mercedes decelerated from 59 mph to zero in less than a
second. This would create incredible G forces, far more than a fighter
pilot experiences and enough to tear the very veins and arteries that emerge
from the heart. Therefore, phrases such as 'ripped out of place' are a
completely accurate way of describing the process. It is Kevin, who
according to a saying here in the UK, has got it arse about face.
**All the available evidence (reports of witnesses hearing
Diana speak, seeing her conscious and moaning, moving, agitating) indicates
Diana's injuries, while serious, were survivable, if Diana had 1, gotten
competent medical care, and 2, been taken to a hospital immediately. Neither
happen that fateful night.
The totality of the witness statetments, prove beyond any reasonable doubt,
that Diana's condition grew progressively worse in a very short time period.
Yes, Diana was conscious at the crash site, that she was muttering phrases.
But
at no point does she appear to have been aware of what was happening.
According to the doctors at the scene, Diana seemed confused and
disorientated. She seems to have slipped into a coma aprox 15-20 minutes
after the accident. Kevin's talk about 'competent medical care' and getting
Diana to 'hospital immediately' is the hot air of an ill informed person.
>
> The princess was bleeding from the mouth, nose and ears after the crash.
**This is new, if is in fact true. There have been reports of a small
trickle
of blood on Di's forehead. And I think there was one report by a witness of
small amount of blood around the ears.
On this point, Kevin is correct. This amongst other things, leads my to
question the credibility of this article.
> Some witnesses believe chauffeur Henri Paul had gunned the Mercedes to
> more than 100 mph as it neared the death tunnel in Paris.
>
> When it hit pillar 13 inside the structure, it decelerated to zero in a
> split second.
**Notice the sleight of hand. The purpose of this paragraph is to give the
unlettered the impression that HP hit the wall at 100 mph. Which of course
he didn't. The Globe well knows that by the time he hit the wall he had
slowed up; the impact speed has been estimated at 60 mph.
This is correct. Burton's report will be completely dependent on the French
Investigation for this figure. Coujard's Final Report estimates this speed
at between 59mph and 67mph. Another reason to treat this article with
scepticism.
>
>
> According to Dr. Goldberg, that means Diana's body would have
> experienced a gravitational force of more than five Gs, causing massive
> stress on her internal organs.
**By what impact speed are they basing this on? The actual impact speed of
60
mph, or the implied impact speed of more than 100 mph? But whatever the
impact speed, there certainly would have been great stress on the body.
One
thing we really haven't covered is what would the stress be if in fact Di
was down in the seatwell (TRJ or HP having ordered Di and Dodi to hit the
deck).
But Diana wasn't in the seatwell. All the evidence shows Diana was
violently thrown out of her seat.
**Hypothetically, if Di was in the seatwell (<snip>), then I would
imagine the stress factors might not have been that great. Perhaps enough to
tear a small whole in the pulmonary vein, but certainly not fatal.
Hypothetically? Well, what if hypothetically Diana had worn her seat belt,
or hypothetically, not got in the car at all. Or never met Dodi and been in
Paris that night. But the fact is, Diana was in her seat unbelted. For
this ommission, she paid the supreme price!
>
>
> "Under those forces, someone weighing 100 pounds suddenly weighs 500,"
> explains Dr. Goldberg. "Diana's heart, too, would have weighed five
> times more than usual and would have tugged at the support structures
> before tearing away.
**Our good Dr. Goldberg is now extrapolating from his original assumption of
a
5G impact. Without hard data, it's hard to comment.
Goldberg is clearly NOT a biophysicist. His 5 G's are a under
estimate. Look at this report from CNN,
"The car in which Princess Diana and her party were riding, a Mercedes S280,
is believed to have struck a concrete post in a tunnel, bounced off the
opposite tunnel wall and come to rest after turning 180 degrees. Its
estimated speed is anywhere from 70 to 100 miles per hour. The computer
simulation shows that without seat belts, both the head and chest of a
person sitting in the right rear seat -- where Diana sat -- would have hit
the back of the front seat with great force. The acceleration that would
have been experienced by the chest would have been about 70 times the force
of gravity (70 g's), or about seven times what a fighter pilot experiences.
The head would have experienced acceleration about 100 times the force of
gravity."
(Could a seat belt have saved Diana? 5th September 1997)
The experts here have over estimated the speed, so the G forces on Diana
must be lower than the 70 mentioned here. Even so, this is closer to the
true figure than Goldberg.
>
> "Cerebral and spinal shock would have ensued, and her nervous system
> would have shut down.
**This seems a stretch to me, to say the least. Clearly, Di's nervous
system
did not shut down. You had a woman who was talking, moving, screaming
according to one witness, said "Oh my God," multiple times to a police
officer. This is not a person who has had her nervous system shut down!
Kevin might have a point here as well. I have never come across 'cerebral
and spinal shock' but then again, I'm not a doctor. I also can not see how
this relates to Diana. Once again, this underminds the credibility of this
article.
>
> "She was almost immediately comatose. If she felt anything at all, it
> would have been great pressure because her chest was being crushed and
> she wasn't able to breathe. The shock would have been so overwhelming,
> there would have been virtually no feeling and no memory."
**More poppycock. But as ridiculous as this is, it reveals to us I believe
one of the lines the Royal Coroner may take during the inquest: essentially,
Di was comatized and for all intents and purposes dead on impact (Malliez's
"her heart was ripped out" nonsense).
Burton will follow the conclusions provided by the French Investigation,
which is
completely correct since that's where the accident happened.
**This also may be why Andanson was
fried to a toast. If he was part of scheme to get photos of the crash scene
out to the public, then its understandable the need to silence him, and
neutralize his photos, with all due haste, especially if the powers that be
expect the inquest to be held relatively soon.
Crap. Kevin has no evidence whatsoever for this statement.
**One photo made public of a
living, breathing Diana with her eyes open in the wreck of the car will blow
this whole argument out of the water.
No it wont. The French have never said that Diana was rendered unconscious
by the accident. Such photo's, if they ever see the light of day, will
serve only to amplify the statements of the witnesses. Kevin simply spouts
hot air.
> Although some crash witnesses said Diana was briefly conscious and even
> asked about her sons, Dr. Goldberg believes the princess was incapable
> of speech.
>
> "If blood was coming from her mouth, which is an airway, there might
> have been sounds that people mistook for words. Any movement she made
> might have been due to seizures. Even a minute of remote consciousness
> would be difficult to imagine," he says.
**Here, our good doctor gets desperate. How in the name of god do they get
hacks like Goldberg and Malliez - and second rate hacks at that! - to do
their dirty work? Can't these people, with all their vast resources, find a
halfway decent doctor to lie for them? Or can it be that Di's death has
evoked emotions so strong, and the issues surrounding her demise so well
known to all (murder), that even HM's servants, at least those with half a
brain, want no poart in the coverup? Hence the need to go all the way to
god damn Marietta, Georgia, to find a supplicant willing to mouth the royal
line? I mean, think about it, who the hell wants to go down in history with
Diana's blood on their hands.
More crap. Maillez is a bloody hero for what he did. Kevin isn't even fit
to clean his shoes.
**Back to the issue at hand: there are plethora of witnesses and evidence,
already covered by me above, and well known to all on this ng, that indicate
that Di was conscious, talking, breathing, moving, for a substantial period
after the crash. To suggest otherwise automatically in my book raises a red
flag to the agenda of anyone trying to deny what is obvious to all.
Diana may have been speaking, but the witnesses indicate that these were
cries of pain and that Diana was disorientated. Here is Dr Martino,
"She was agitated and crying out, and did not appear to understand what I
was saying to
reassure her."
(L'Express June, 25 1998)
Diana was not fully conscious.
<snip>details that could have been written by anyone with a knowledge of
post-mortem proceedure.
>
> Despite stories from Paris that the princess was pregnant, it was clear
> there was no developing fetus in her womb.
**A crucial paragraph. I believe this entire article was for the purpose of
sneaking this paragraph in. Note the almost Clinton-like use of words.
Notice how they don't say, "Blood tests showed unequivocally that Diana was
not pregnant." But rather, "there was no developing fetus in her womb." Of
course there wasn't, the **fetus having been terminated during that one-hour
trip to the hospital**! I believe this is the exact line the royal coroner
will follow. He will pontifically declare, "We found no evidence of a fetus
in Diana." And anyone who dares suggest publicly that the fetus may have
been aborted, will be laughed off the scene by the royal media hacks. The
goal of this paragraph is to box in those of us who have a good idea of what
really transpired on the obscene one-hour ride to the hospital.
Kevin, frankly, my patience has run out with you. How many times have I
responded to this nonsense but you have consistently choosen to ignore it.
Carrying on being a fool Kevin, it's no skin off my nose. Now, let's
unravel this codswollop.
**'during that one-hour trip to hospital'. Will someone please tell Kevin
that he is the only twat on the planet(oh, sorry, Maxie as well), who bangs
about this one hour trip. As everybody now realizes, this a complete and
total fiction. There never was a 60 minute trip to the hospital. Accounts
variously place the departure time of the ambulance from the tunnel, between
01:18 and 1.30 and it's arrival between 2.00 and 2.05. The fact that Kevin
still roles out this fiction 3 years after the event, reveals how completely
hopeless all these conspiracy theories are.
**'fetus having been terminated during that one-hour trip to the hospital'
Why does Kevin persist with this pathetic theory about the ficticious one
hour
ambulance journey. How many times must I tell him that a) termination is
not a time intensive proceedure. It takes aprox 15 minutes. b) A
termination DOES NOT immediately alter the chemical changes in the pregnant
female body. This has greater application in a corpse in which metabolism
no longer takes place. The consequences of this are that the pregnancy
would still be detectable. Termination would not alter this so why carry it
out?
<snip> a lot of rubbish about Diana being pregnant.
<snip>a lot of stuff that could have been written by anyone with a bit of
medical/post-mortem knowledge.
>
>
>
>
> Could Diana have survived the crash if she'd been immediately flown by
> helicopter to a trauma center? Probably not, says Dr. Goldberg, adding:
> "There was nothing anyone could do. In the very unlikely event she had
> lived, she would have been in a vegetative state. The Diana the world
> knew and loved was lost forever."
**More rubbish. To answer: Yes, Di most assuredly could have been saved if
a
helicopter had wisked her to a hospital (or even a fast ambulance).
Kevin, the finest example of a medical dunderhead, demands the very things
that would have killed Diana BEFORE she ever got to the hospital.
Acceleration and deceleration, the forces that Martino was attempting to
counteract, are INCREASED in fast moving vehicles and INCREASED again, in
helicopters precisely because they are faster and have greater
manoeuvrability.
**As for the vegatitive state, by what does the good Doctor base this on?
Lack of blood and therefore oxygen to the tissues, symptomatic of internal
haemarrage, cardiovascular shock and acute hypotension. For Kevin's
benefit, I will repeat what I have previously posted. Once the heart stops,
the major organs begin to die after 4 minutes. After 4 minutes, brain
damage sets in, what Goldberg describes as a vegitative state.
**I would
humbly suggest that the Diana the world knew and loved was lost forever, not
because of injuries suffered in the crash,
And I would humbly suggest that these injuries were the precise reason for
Diana's death.
**but because of inept treatment at
the tunnel and an obscene one-hour trip to the hospital,
What 'inept treatment'? Where's your proof? All the information from the
crash site I have seen, shows that the A&E proceedures and medical treatment
were excellent. The one hour trip to the hospital, is a complete and total
fiction. I appeal to Kevin, to stop disinforming people.
<snip>
Geoff.
Trevjon
"Cromwell" <Ste...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8oakln$p2r$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> Kevin Warren wrote:
(SNIP)
I don't want to start an "off-topic" debate about physics, but anyone who
uses the term "G-forces" in relation to this accident is either talking
complete bollocks, or using a sort of "short-hand" to explain quite
complicated physics in a simple manner.
Lets make it perfectly clear that before, during, and after the accident,
the force due to gravity in the alma tunnel remained constant. The
"G-force" they seem to be referring to is the Force exerted on the body (or
bodies) due to acceleration, as an expression relative to the "normal"
gravitational constant-or "shorthand", as I said previously.
True "G-force" can only experienced when the gravitational force due to the
earth is changing. An example is a fighter-plane diving from a great
altitude, or a space rocket returning to earth.
OK, you may feel I am just arguing sematics, but I feel that no scientist
who really knew what he was talking about would use the term willy-nilly.
Unless, of course, the journalists didn't understand the physics, and
therefore just put "G-Force", as it is a term most people are familiar with
(though few actually understand).
The CNN report seems to show some level of understanding, as it never
mentions G-Force, but tries to give the reader an example of the forces
involved by comparing them to "normal" forces, and expresses them in a
multiplier of these forces (i.e. 70G).
Cromwell
Trevjon <tre...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8ob9uj$keh$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
>
> "Cromwell" <Ste...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:8oakln$p2r$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> > Kevin Warren wrote:
>
> (SNIP)
>
>
> I don't want to start an "off-topic" debate about physics, but anyone who
> uses the term "G-forces" in relation to this accident is either talking
> complete bollocks, or using a sort of "short-hand" to explain quite
> complicated physics in a simple manner.
Goldberg uses the term 'gravitational forces' which could be misleading. As
for 'G force', the capitalisation of the letter can mislead individuals such
as myself, into thinking this the gravitational force. Trevjon is correct.
It isn't. I use g force to denote a combination of forces which act on the
human body and are experienced by fast moving vehicles and roller coasters.
>
> Lets make it perfectly clear that before, during, and after the accident,
> the force due to gravity in the alma tunnel remained constant.
Agree 100%
The
> "G-force" they seem to be referring to is the Force exerted on the body
(or
> bodies) due to acceleration, as an expression relative to the "normal"
> gravitational constant-or "shorthand", as I said previously.
Unfortunately, you culprit is closer to home. 'G force' came into the post
because of me, not Goldberg nor the experts quoted by CNN. I'm not a
physicist, so I appoligise for the possible confusion.
> True "G-force" can only experienced when the gravitational force due to
the
> earth is changing. An example is a fighter-plane diving from a great
> altitude, or a space rocket returning to earth.
100% agreed
>
> OK, you may feel I am just arguing sematics, but I feel that no scientist
> who really knew what he was talking about would use the term willy-nilly.
> Unless, of course, the journalists didn't understand the physics, and
> therefore just put "G-Force", as it is a term most people are familiar
with
> (though few actually understand).
You are right. A scientist versed in physics, would not have made this
elementary error. I should have been clearer in my explanation. I agree
that 'G force' is not an appropriate way of putting things.
Geoff.
GODS...@home.com
Just a copy. No comments at this time.
Beyond that it is nice to see Geoff take
something other than a one sided position.
Alvin
On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:48:19 +0100, "Cromwell"
<Ste...@btinternet.com> wrote:
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>From: "Cromwell" <Ste...@btinternet.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.princess-diana
>Subject: Re: Diana's Autopsy
>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:48:19 +0100
>Organization: BT Internet
>Lines: 436
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>NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-143-72.btinternet.com
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>Xref: newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com alt.conspiracy.princess-diana:30033992
Cigalet Leasing
These photo's are very clear and seem to come from a small picket digital
camera possibly owned by one of the medics or a 'friend' who happened to be
in the tunnel at pillar 13. The photo's show Di with her eyes open
apparently speaking to one of the medics. In the second photo, someone is
injecting a substance into her neck....an unusual practice given the
supposed injuries sustained.
The photo's will be available on the internet in less than a month.news:399F86D1...@relaypoint.net...
> > protective membrane around the heart - at the root of the aorta. That
> > sac is very strong, like parchment.
> >
Aleeta E. Johnson
AJ
--
"Truth Needs Not Many Words."
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
"Cigalet Leasing" <sig...@home.com> wrote in message
news:KOBr5.236928$8u4.2...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
banana
alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '09:36:25' on 'Mon, 21 Aug
2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
>Excellent reply!!
>
>Aleeta
>
>--
>http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
>"Lanark" <lan...@viriconium.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:39A0DE6B...@viriconium.fsnet.co.uk...
<snip>
>What about the ROYAL Automobile Club?
The RAC is quite an interesting organisation. It was founded in 1897
(changing its name 10 years later) by Richard Simms who also set up the
Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. See the RAC Club in Pall
Mall, London.
So is the Automobile Association, which is mixed up with Eagle Star, an
Italian mafia firm, and has its HQ very close to an underground
government installation (and also the HQ of the Civil Service
Commission) in Basingstoke.
--
banana
banana
alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '13:30:18' on 'Tue, 22 Aug
2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
>Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
>Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar with
>the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
>from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
>believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a church
>to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
I wish it were. BTW how are they doing in Germany and France?
--
banana
Aleeta E. Johnson
--
"Truth Needs Not Many Words."
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
"banana" <banana@REMOVE_THIS.borve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dXW+MEAo...@borve.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8nuo5t$b4h$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, posted to
> alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '13:30:18' on 'Tue, 22 Aug
> 2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
> >Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar
with
> >the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
> >from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
> >believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a
church
> >to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
>
> I wish it were. BTW how are they doing in Germany and France?
I don't know Banana, but here is a link to a Scientology website. You might
find it interesting and I'm going to look into it a little further. What
else is interesting is the name of the party who belongs to this wesite.
AJ
http://sites.myhomepage.org/kevinwarren/
> --
> banana
Aleeta E. Johnson
--
"Truth Needs Not Many Words."
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
"banana" <banana@REMOVE_THIS.borve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dXW+MEAo...@borve.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8nuo5t$b4h$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, posted to
> alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '13:30:18' on 'Tue, 22 Aug
> 2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
> >Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar
with
> >the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
> >from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
> >believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a
church
> >to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
>
> I wish it were. BTW how are they doing in Germany and France?
Banana,
Germany for one is going hard and heavy against right wingers, be it
neo-nazi or Scientology. Here is just a small fraction of what is going on.
I will leave you with the links and work on France later, as Gernmany is
going headstrong.
AJ
http://germany.freedommag.org/
http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/germany/09/14/germany.neonazi.ap/index.
html
> --
> banana
Aleeta E. Johnson
--
"Truth Needs Not Many Words."
http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
"banana" <banana@REMOVE_THIS.borve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dXW+MEAo...@borve.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8nuo5t$b4h$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, posted to
> alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '13:30:18' on 'Tue, 22 Aug
> 2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
> >Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar
with
> >the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
> >from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
> >believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a
church
> >to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
>
> I wish it were. BTW how are they doing in Germany and France?
Ok Banana, a question, why do you say, you wish it were? I say it is!!
Now I looked into France and low and behold, they just don't get it and
neither does Italy and I will also give you a link. They consider it a
religion of which I know , it is not!!
http://www.freedom.org.uk/mag/issuea02/page05.htm
AJ
> --
> banana
GODS...@home.com
From:
http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/germany/09/14/germany.neonazi.ap/index
Not Found
The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you
followed is either outdated,
inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it.
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:57:18 -0700, "Aleeta E. Johnson"
<alee...@mindspring.com> wrote:
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>From: "Aleeta E. Johnson" <alee...@mindspring.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.princess-diana
>Subject: Re: Diana's Autopsy
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:57:18 -0700
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>Xref: newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com alt.conspiracy.princess-diana:30034574
>
>
>
>--
>"Truth Needs Not Many Words."
>
>http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
>"banana" <banana@REMOVE_THIS.borve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:dXW+MEAo...@borve.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <8nuo5t$b4h$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, posted to
>> alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '13:30:18' on 'Tue, 22 Aug
>> 2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>
>> >Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
>> >Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar
>with
>> >the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
>> >from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
>> >believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a
>church
>> >to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
>>
>> I wish it were. BTW how are they doing in Germany and France?
>
GODS...@home.com
From: http://germany.freedommag.org/
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE> Religious Freedom Alert: Germany 2000</TITLE>
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="Germany, intolerance, human rights,
freedom, religious beliefs, freedom to practice any religion,
investigation, spy, government, Scientology, Ron, Hubbard, Dianetics,
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exclusion, blacklisting, harassment, CDU, rights, stigmatize, sect,
minority, parishioner, intolerance, solutions, Hamburg, church, Anne
Archer, religious minorities">
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="This page has been erected to
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<A HREF="http://germany.freedommag.org/press/page11.htm"><b><FONT
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Joining U.S. State Department experts, Jehovah's Witnesses and other
Christians from America and Austria, members of the Church of
Scientology testified before Congress Wednesday on how the German and
French governments are violating international human rights covenants
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Germany’s Office for the protection of the constitution as an
instrument for character assassination – Concerning the
discussion on Scientology</FONT></B></A>
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Recent headlines in Germany reveal that Holger Pfahls, former
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<!-- Contents -->
<A NAME=why></A>
<H2><FONT COLOR=000066 SIZE=-1><B>WHY THIS PAGE HAS BEEN
ERECTED.</B></FONT></H2>
<P>
<B><FONT COLOR=990000 SIZE=-1>This page has been erected to provide
information and documentation of officially sanctioned discrimination
against religious minorities in today's Germany. Abuses against
parishioners of the Church of Scientology form the major focus. But
other minority religions are also targeted.</FONT>
</B>
<P>
<U><B>What’s the Problem in Germany?</B></U>
<P>
“In Germany, democracy is used as an ideology to impose
conformity. It has been dismaying to discover that the state, and
some of its politicians and people, are using what are known from
the past to be well-worn paths of discrimination and
intolerance.”
<P>
—<I>Freedom of Religion and Belief: A World Report</I> Human
Rights Centre, University of Essex, England, 1997.
<P>
What are these “paths of discrimination and intolerance"? And
why focus on Germany, when so much brutal persecution is occurring
elsewhere? Repressive regimes in middle and far eastern countries
have imprisoned, tortured and killed Christians, Muslims and
Buddhists for their beliefs.
<P>
All true. But Germany is not a dictatorship. It is an
influential western democracy. Politically, economically and
geographically, it is at the heart of Europe. It has a constitution
which guarantees the free exercise of religion and its government
has ratified international human rights treaties.
<P>
Unfortunately, the German government has fallen far short of
these human rights standards. The intolerance of the Kohl
administration fermented a McCarthyist climate that has soaked into
the fabric of German society. Belonging to a religious minority in
Germany puts you at risk of being blacklisted and ostracized.
Religious discrimination pervades every aspect of life: the arts,
professions, banking and finance, social clubs, political parties,
even sports. Some Germans are frightened even to associate with
members of certain religious minorities, lest they too are socially
isolated.
<P>
There are now more than 20 reports by government and human
rights bodies criticizing the German government for religious
discrimination. The U.S. State Department Country Human Rights
Reports have tracked abuses against Scientologists every year since
1993. The evidence is persuasive enough to convince not only the
State Department, but the Committee for Security and Cooperation in
Europe, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Religious
Intolerance, the Human Rights Centre of Essex University, England,
the International Helsinki Federation, an ad hoc committee of
British lords and scholars and many independent researchers that a
serious human rights problem exists in Germany.
<P>
<U><B>Bans from Political Parties</B></U>
<P>
Germany has a history of religious persecution.
<P>
A visible deterioration in the quality of its post-war human
rights record occurred shortly after reunification. The first
targets were members of the Church of Scientology. In December
1991, Chancellor Kohl’s Christian Democratic Union banned all
Scientologists from membership. A few months later, the CDU issued
a report which stated that the reason for expulsion was that
Scientology has a “different understanding of man”. Unlike
the
predominant Christian Churches in Germany, which believe that man is
totally depraved and subject to original sin, Scientology holds that
man is basically good and has lived many lifetimes. Thus, the
reason Scientologists were denied membership to the CDU was because
of their religious beliefs—an act of blatant discrimination. The
other political parties soon followed suit.
<P>
The application form to join the CDU requires the applicant to
attest in writing he is not a member of the Church of Scientology.
Thus, to gain admittance to the CDU, Scientologists would be
required to disavow their religion. In January 1996, the CDU State
Party Court in Hessia affirmed the expulsion of a Scientologist and
his wife from the party on the grounds that Christian principles
underlying the CDU Party necessitate the exclusion of Scientologists
from the party and that the Church of Scientology had alleged in
national and international forums that the CDU’s exclusion
policies
violate human rights. In other words, Scientologists were debarred
because they had exercised their right to freedom of religion and
freedom of speech.
<P>
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*******************************
>> >Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
>> >Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar
>with
>> >the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
>> >from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
>> >believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a
>church
>> >to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
>>
>> I wish it were. BTW how are they doing in Germany and France?
>
>Banana,
>
>Germany for one is going hard and heavy against right wingers, be it
>neo-nazi or Scientology. Here is just a small fraction of what is going on.
>I will leave you with the links and work on France later, as Gernmany is
>going headstrong.
>
>AJ
>
>http://germany.freedommag.org/
>
>http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/germany/09/14/germany.neonazi.ap/index.
>html
>> --
>> banana
>
<a href="http://members.home.com/godsbrain">G.O.D.S.B.R.A.I.N.</a><br>
Aleeta
"Aleeta E. Johnson" <alee...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> --
> "Truth Needs Not Many Words."
>
> http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
> "banana" <banana@REMOVE_THIS.borve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dXW+MEAo...@borve.demon.co.uk...
> > In article <8nuo5t$b4h$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, posted to
> > alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '13:30:18' on 'Tue, 22
Aug
> > 2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
> >
Scientology
> > >Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm
familiar
> with
> > >the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I
speak
> > >from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded
individuals and
> > >believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called
a
> church
> > >to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic
farce!!
> >
>
> Banana,
>
> Germany for one is going hard and heavy against right wingers, be it
> neo-nazi or Scientology. Here is just a small fraction of what is
going on.
> I will leave you with the links and work on France later, as Gernmany
is
> going headstrong.
>
> AJ
>
> http://germany.freedommag.org/
>
>
http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/germany/09/14/germany.neonazi.ap/in
dex.
> html
In order for this link to work you must paste in, after the word index.
html, in order for the link to work. I'll paste in what it has to say.
AJ
Click Here
Click Here
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
U.S. military prepares contingency plans for air strikes on Iraq
German police arrest 120 anti-Fascists
Germany is witnessing the rise of neo-Nazi groups
September 16, 2000
Web posted at: 11:47 AM EDT (1547 GMT)
NEUMUENSTER, Germany -- Police have arrested 120 anti-fascist
demonstrators who attacked a protest rally by neo-Nazis and skinheads
in north Germany.
Around 300 right-wing extremists were protesting in the town of
Neumuenster, 40 km (25 miles) north of Hamburg, after local authorities
withdrew the operating licence of "Club 88" -- a regional meeting place
for the far right.
The number 88 is used as a code by neo-Nazi groups for the banned Nazi
slogan "Heil Hitler," where the eights correspond to the letter "H" as
the eighth letter of the alphabet.
Police detained the counter-demonstrators, many of whom were extreme
left-wingers known as "Autonomists," after they tried to attack the neo-
Nazis through a police barrier.
Heide Simonis, premier of the northern state of Schleswig Holstein,
told a counter-demonstration of around 1,000 left-wing activists, trade
unionists and ordinary members of the public that citizens should show
more civil courage against right-wing extremism.
"We need more people who will not just look away and hide if someone
beside them is being beaten up or even killed," Simonis said. She
described "Club 88" as a "piece of dirt."
Neo-Nazi propaganda
German authorities have pledged to crack down on the small but vocal
far-right movement after a spate of racist violence that has shocked a
country still mindful of its Nazi past.
The German government, under pressure to react to a spate of racist and
far-right violence, last week outlawed a small group of far-right
extremists known as "Blood and Honour" for spreading neo-Nazi
propaganda.
The government has been examining a ban on the larger National
Democratic Party (NPD) for the past month following an eruption of far-
right violence this summer, but has so far held off seeking to outlaw
the party because of fears that the constitutional court may overturn
the decision.
Elsewhere on Saturday, around 700 people demonstrated in Dusseldorf
against neo-Nazi violence.
Reuters contributed to this report.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
RELATED STORIES:
Germany bans neo-Nazi skinhead group
September 14, 2000
German police seize neo-Nazi propaganda
September 6, 2000
German neo-Nazis protest over rally ban
September 2, 2000
Schroeder urges Germans to fight racism
August 23, 2000
Calls for ban on far-right party grow louder
August 12, 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
RELATED SITES:
Unofficial website covering German government
Adolf Hitler & Europe
Note: Pages will open in a new browser window
External sites are not endorsed by CNN Interactive.
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> > --
> > banana
>
>
--
~AJ~
GODS...@home.com
From: http://www.freedom.org.uk/mag/issuea02/page05.htm
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE> Scientology Wins in France and Italy - Freedom Magazine - The
Voice of the Church of Scientology in Britain since 1968</TITLE>
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="FREEDOM, Freedom, human rights,
Germany, Bububonic Plague, Children, The Way to Happiness, Freiheit,
Menschenrechte, speech, cyberspace, e-zine, magazine, community,
ancient beliefs, news, reports, expression, information, social,
justice, awards, religious, Scientology, Dianetics, Hubbard,
psychiatry, psychiatrist, philosophy, CCHR, Citizens Commission on
Human Rights, mankind, rehabilitating, NED, New-Era Dianetics, OT,
Operating Thetan, judicial, FLAG, CSI, Church of Scientology
International, COS, RTC, Religious Technology Center, IAS,
International Association for Scientologist, civil rights, psychiatry,
mental health, brainwashing, dynamics, drug rehabilitation, crime,
ethics, children, literacy, illiterate, intelligence, school,
psychology, mental illness, human rights, rape, women, psychiatric
abuse, morals, morality, immorality, religion, moral codes, racism,
segregation, apartheid, prejudice, justice, law, order">
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="In a watershed triumph for the
Church of Scientology in Europe, the Court of Appeal in Lyon, France,
ruled that Scientology is to be regarded as a religious community and
that the sincerity of Scientologists' religious beliefs is beyond
question. In another case in which the Church of Scientology's legal
status as a religion was under challenge, the Supreme Court of Italy
deliberated for less than three hours before deciding a lower court's
decision against the Church should be cancelled.">
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#000000" BACKGROUND="img/bg_00.jpg">
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<CENTER>
<IMG SRC="img/page02hd.jpg" HSPACE=0 VSPACE=0 BORDER=0 ALIGN=LEFT
ALT="Freedom">
<BR CLEAR=ALL>
<BR>
<IMG SRC="img/pg05hd.jpg" HSPACE=0 VSPACE=0 BORDER=0 ALT="Scientology
Wins in France and Italy" WIDTH=400 HEIGHT=115>
</CENTER>
<P>
<BR CLEAR=ALL>
<TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=RIGHT WIDTH=238
HEIGHT=313>
<TD VALIGN=TOP COLSPAN=2>
<IMG SRC="img/pg05_1.jpg" HSPACE=0 VSPACE=0 BORDER=0 ALIGN=LEFT ALT="[
image ]" WIDTH=238 HEIGHT=313>
</TD><TR>
<TD VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT><IMG SRC="img/smarty.gif" HSPACE=5 VSPACE=0
BORDER=0 ALIGN=LEFT ALT=""></TD>
<TD VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT COLSPAN=1>
<I>
The sincerity of Scientologists’ religious belief is without
question, said the Lyon court.
</I>
<P></TD><TD VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=LEFT><IMG SRC="img/smarty.gif" HSPACE=0
VSPACE=0 BORDER=0 ALIGN=LEFT></TD></TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=2 CELLPADDING=1 WIDTH=180 LENGHT=100>
<TD VALIGN=TOP>
<FONT SIZE=+2><B>Courts deliver dramatic victories for religious
freedom</B></FONT>
</TD>
</TABLE>
<IMG SRC="img/i.jpg" HSPACE=4 VSPACE=0 BORDER=0 ALIGN=LEFT ALT=" I
"><br>n a watershed triumph for the Church of Scientology in Europe,
the Court of Appeal in Lyon, France, ruled that Scientology is to be
regarded as a religious community and that the sincerity of
Scientologists’ religious beliefs is beyond question.
<P>
The court held, on July 28, that under
the French Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights,
Scientologists are fully entitled to freely proselytise, to practice
their religion and engage in missionary work without governmental
restriction.
<P>
The Church of Scientology acclaimed the
Court’s ruling as a resounding victory for religious freedom in
Europe and a major recognition in a country which has seen increasing
governmental oppression of religious minorities. The judgment, which
is certain to be studied closely by the German government, reversed a
lower court’s ruling which had been widely criticised by
religious experts as one of the most oppressive and unconstitutional
rulings in recent French history.
<P>
The Court acquitted nine Scientologists
of bogus criminal charges and cancelled or suspended the sentences of
all other defendants, while stating that it is impossible to deny
Scientologists the principle of religious freedom. “The Republic
does not recognise any <TABLE BORDERCOLOR=#E0E0D1 BORDER=0 ALIGN=LEFT
CELLSPACING=15 CELLPADDING=1 WIDTH=140 LENGHT=170>
<TD BGCOLOR=#E0E0D1 VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=CENTER>
<TABLE BORDERCOLOR=#E0E0D1 BORDER=3 CELLSPACING=1 CELLPADDING=10
WIDTH=130 LENGHT=170>
<TD BGCOLOR=#7683D0 VALIGN=TOP ALIGN=CENTER>
<!--b5CCb5-->
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=+2 COLOR=#FFFFFF><B>“The Republic (of France) respects
all beliefs and guarantees freedom of opinion.”</B></FONT>
<P><NOBR><FONT SIZE=+1 COLOR=#FFFFFF><B>– Lyon
court</B></FONT></NOBR>
<P>
</TD>
</TD>
</TABLE>
</TABLE>religion; it respects all beliefs and guarantees freedom of
opinion,” said the Court. “Article 9 of the European
Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms as well as
Articles 18 and 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights assert the principle of freedom to manifest
one’s religion subject only to those restrictions arising from
the needs to public safety, public policy, public health or public
morals. ... To the extent that a religion may be defined by
coincidence of two factors — an objective factor, the existence
of a community however small, and a subjective factor, a common faith
— the Church of Scientology is entitled to call itself a religion
and is entirely free to develop its activities, under the existing
law, including its missionary activities or even its activities of
proselytism.”
<P>
The Reverend Heber Jentzsch, President
of the Church of Scientology International, stated, “Scientology
has always been a religion. The ruling changes nothing in Scientology.
But it changes the country. This was a good day for all religions in
France.
<P>
“Despite political pressure and
hysteria promoting a new inquisition, the court has returned to the
French tradition of liberty and equality,” he said. “The
judges of the appeals court have seen through the manipulation by
fanatics, self-named and discredited ’experts’ whose sole
objective is to destroy religious freedom in that country.”
<P>
He added that “this ruling will
have a prominent place among the more than 100 that already exist
upholding the religiosity of Scientology.”
<P>
The headlines across France and in
numerous other countries, from Japan to the United Kingdom, told the
climax of the story:
<P>
“Scientology is a Religion,” “Court Says Scientology
Free to Practice,” “Court Confirms Scientology
Religion.”
<P>
<CENTER>
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*********************************************
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:06:14 -0700, "Aleeta E. Johnson"
<alee...@mindspring.com> wrote:
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>From: "Aleeta E. Johnson" <alee...@mindspring.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.princess-diana
>Subject: Re: Diana's Autopsy
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:06:14 -0700
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>Xref: newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com alt.conspiracy.princess-diana:30034575
>
>
>
>--
>"Truth Needs Not Many Words."
>
>http://members.delphi.com/ALEETA
>"banana" <banana@REMOVE_THIS.borve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:dXW+MEAo...@borve.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <8nuo5t$b4h$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, posted to
>> alt.conspiracy.princess-diana and stamped at '13:30:18' on 'Tue, 22 Aug
>> 2000', Aleeta E. Johnson <alee...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>
>> >Very interesting Katherine, and I can assure you I know that Scientology
>> >Dianetics, is no more a church than the man in the moon. I'm familiar
>with
>> >the term Thetan's. All they worship, is the "Almighty Dollar." I speak
>> >from experience, and it is designed for the weak minded individuals and
>> >believe me, there are plenty of them out there. It is also called a
>church
>> >to keep them from donating to uncle sam. It is one gigantic farce!!
>>
>> I wish it were. BTW how are they doing in Germany and France?
>
>Ok Banana, a question, why do you say, you wish it were? I say it is!!
>Now I looked into France and low and behold, they just don't get it and
>neither does Italy and I will also give you a link. They consider it a
>religion of which I know , it is not!!
>
>http://www.freedom.org.uk/mag/issuea02/page05.htm
>
>AJ