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Thorburn's position
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John Corbett
Dec 17, 2021, 12:38:31 AM12/17/21
to
It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
Sky Throne 19efppp
Dec 17, 2021, 12:43:12 AM12/17/21
to
On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 5:38:31 AM UTC, John Corbett wrote:
> It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
Do you have a point?
> It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
Hank Sienzant
Dec 17, 2021, 10:57:40 AM12/17/21
to
On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:38:31 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
> It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
I saw that, and thought the same thing. I saw wide receiver Wayne Chrebet of the Jets do the same thing after a hard hit to the head, which of course was far more prevalent back in “the good old days.”
> It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
Damage to the vicinity of the neck causes that reaction. Depending on where the damage is, and the severity, it can vary from a slight tingle and numbness in an arm (in football, it’s called a ‘stinger’ and I’ve had a few in my four years of college football) to total paralysis (Daryl Stingley of the Boston / New England Patriots is the best example. He was hit by Jack “The Assassin” Tatum of the Raiders in a *preseason* game (it didn’t count for anything except live practice, essentially). Pound-for-pound, Tatum was the hardest hitter I ever saw on a football field.
Hank Sienzant
Dec 17, 2021, 11:03:49 AM12/17/21
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The injury and his reaction can be seen online here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eg4v6y0zr7Q
Chuck Schuyler
Dec 17, 2021, 11:59:19 AM12/17/21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX3LzKY0TlE
John Corbett
Dec 17, 2021, 2:12:01 PM12/17/21
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On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 10:57:40 AM UTC-5, Hank Sienzant wrote:
Of course I had to take turns going to the games with my siblings and back then teams could only appear once or twice on TV during the regular season. Tatum was a scary player throughout his career. I remember seeing him walking across the Oval during my freshman year at Ohio State. He even looked scary then.
John Corbett
Dec 17, 2021, 2:23:30 PM12/17/21
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I have become a Chiefs fan because of Patrick Mahomes and my first reaction when the play happened was, "Good. Chiefs ball.". I didn't notice the Thorburn's position at first but that was my thought when I saw he still had his arms in front of him even after being strapped to the board. Then they showed the replay again and that's when I saw his arms swing out directly in front of him within a second or two of hitting his head. Hopefully, he didn't suffer any permanent damage but with head and neck injuries, you just don't know.
John Corbett
Dec 17, 2021, 2:26:17 PM12/17/21
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"...as my DAD had taken a job...".
My New Year's resolution will be to proof read my posts BEFORE posting them.
Yeah, right.
Hank Sienzant
Dec 17, 2021, 2:26:38 PM12/17/21
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The Earl Campbell hit will always be my favorite (2:20).
Campbell scored, but that’s a tribute to his balance. Tatum lit him up.
Tatum: 5-10, 200
Campbell: 5-11, 232
John Corbett
Dec 18, 2021, 6:01:05 AM12/18/21
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There have been two Henry stiff arms this year that have gone viral in which he pancaked the would be tackler. It reminded me very much of one Campbell delivered on a Monday night game. He tossed the defender into the sideline as if he were a rag doll.
As for Tatum, I agree with the guys who said he should be number one on that list. It's a good thing he's not playing today. He couldn't afford the fine money. There is an iconic photo of Tatum hitting Michigan QB Dennis Brown in the 1968 game in which he hit Brown so hard his feet went up in the air. Brown fumbled the ball leading to Ohio State's first score in a 50-14 rout that led to a national championship. Unfortunately, I can't find it anywhere online.
Years after the Tatum/Campbell collision, there was a similar one at the goal line between Bo Jackson and Brian Bosworth but that one was completely one sided.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnDlFKTNkeE
This might be why the Boz is now doing commercials as the sheriff of Fansville.
Gil Jesus
Dec 18, 2021, 10:35:17 AM12/18/21
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John Corbett
Dec 18, 2021, 10:39:01 AM12/18/21
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A sports medicine expert for NBC believes Donald Parham was exhibiting what is called a fencing response when his arm raised involuntarily after hitting his head on the turf. This is caused by a head injury involving the brain stem. Thorburn's position is in response to trauma near the spine in the cervical area. This is roughly the same area. It seems if these aren't one and the same, they might be related although I can't find anything that ties the two together so this is nothing more than a layman's opinion.
John Corbett
Dec 18, 2021, 10:41:41 AM12/18/21
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On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 10:35:17 AM UTC-5, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Kennedy's reaction being "Thorburn's position" my ass.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFHYwot6bk
I guess you are as much entitled to make your guess as anybody else.
> Kennedy's reaction being "Thorburn's position" my ass.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFHYwot6bk
Hank Sienzant
Dec 18, 2021, 10:55:42 AM12/18/21
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On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 10:35:17 AM UTC-5, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Kennedy's reaction being "Thorburn's position" my ass.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFHYwot6bk
Damage to your ass would not cause Kennedy’s arms to fly up.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFHYwot6bk
Do you have an alternative explanation for what locks both Kennedy’s and Donald Parham’s in the apparent same position?
And why do CTs argue against it, anyway? Everyone concedes their was bullet wound damage to the upper back in the area of the neck vertebrae. Why couldn’t a bullet cause that reaction, especially since we see it sometimes when football players takes a hard hit from another player or make forcible contact with the ground?
Do they argue against it solely because the person who first mentioned it was a “Lone Nutter” — someone who believed in Oswald’s sole guilt and no conspiracy? (Dr. Lattimer).
Mark Ulrik
Dec 18, 2021, 11:33:34 AM12/18/21
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fredag den 17. december 2021 kl. 06.38.31 UTC+1 skrev John Corbett:
> It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
NB! .john in Assassination Logic:
> It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
"Lattimer was responsible for another bit of pseudoscience related to the case. In the wake of the bullet strike to his torso, Kennedy’s arms move sharply upward, toward his throat. He doesn’t actually grasp at his throat, and his fists are balled up in what looks like an involuntary reaction. Lattimer found a “golden oldie” (from 1889) of an article in a medical journal and decided that Kennedy had assumed “Thorburn’s position” — something documented as happening in the wake of trauma to the spine. Kennedy’s arm movements were indeed a neuromuscular reaction, but not the one Thorburn described, since Torburn’s position develops over days or weeks or even months. (130)
"(130) Lattimer, Kennedy and Lincoln, chapter 11; Bob Artwohl, post on Compuserve forum, April 6, 1994, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/thorburn.txt."
The Artwohl link doesn't work anymore, but there's this:
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/medical.htm#thorburn
Steven Galbraith
Dec 18, 2021, 11:57:54 AM12/18/21
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John Corbett
Dec 18, 2021, 2:51:20 PM12/18/21
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Nitrate testing, like fiber evidence, cannot positively match a sample to a whole object but it
is still probative. For example, matching the fibers on the butt plate of the rifle to the shirt Oswald was wearing does not positively prove the fibers came from that shirt but it would be quite a coincidence that they would match if they didn't come from his shirt.
John Corbett
Dec 18, 2021, 2:58:41 PM12/18/21
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On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 11:33:34 AM UTC-5, Mark Ulrik wrote:
Last I checked, Donald Parham was expected to be released from the hospital yesterday so hopefully he is recovering from a very scary head injury.
Ben Holmes
Dec 20, 2021, 9:14:45 AM12/20/21
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On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:57:53 -0800 (PST), Steven Galbraith
<stevemg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Good post. Several of the claims made by Lattimer - or Alvarez or
> Bugliosi or Posner - seemed to me to be illogical or simply
> unsupportable (Bugliosi dismissed the reliability of the nitrate test
> in one instance and then used it as a reliable in another). Just
> because they're on "our team" doesn't mean they're right. In fact, we
> should be extra cautious about things that we agree with, that we're
> prone to believe because we want to. I.e., confirmation bias.
Amusing that you can't extend that thinking to the WCR. Which
<stevemg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Good post. Several of the claims made by Lattimer - or Alvarez or
> Bugliosi or Posner - seemed to me to be illogical or simply
> unsupportable (Bugliosi dismissed the reliability of the nitrate test
> in one instance and then used it as a reliable in another). Just
> because they're on "our team" doesn't mean they're right. In fact, we
> should be extra cautious about things that we agree with, that we're
> prone to believe because we want to. I.e., confirmation bias.
*PROVABLY* lied about their own collected testimony.
A fact you can't refute, and absolutely REFUSE to debate.
Chuck Schuyler
Dec 20, 2021, 12:29:12 PM12/20/21
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John Corbett
Dec 20, 2021, 12:55:13 PM12/20/21
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it their place?
Ben Holmes
Dec 20, 2021, 12:57:17 PM12/20/21
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Tut tut tut coward... asking questions won't get you answers unless
*YOU* start answering some...
You refuse to refute what I stated... you absolutely REFUSE to debate
the issue.
You lose!
healyd...@gmail.com
Dec 20, 2021, 7:23:58 PM12/20/21
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Hank Sienzant
Dec 21, 2021, 9:37:35 AM12/21/21
to
>
> You refuse to refute what I stated...
What Ben is doing here is utilize the logic fallacy of shifting the burden of proof. That’s where you proclaim it’s the obligation of your opponent to disprove your contentions rather than your obligation to support them.
> … you absolutely REFUSE to debate
> the issue.
This is Ben making a claim that applies more to himself than anyone else. No one here deletes more comments than Ben. No one here ignores more points than Ben. No one here refuses to debate any JFK assassination issue more than Ben.
>
> You lose!
This is of course based on Ben’s highly-biased scoring system, is can be summarized as “Anyone who disagrees with Ben must be wrong”, hence they lose. No discussion is warranted — QED.
Ben Holmes
Dec 21, 2021, 5:14:50 PM12/21/21
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 06:37:34 -0800 (PST), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 12:57:17 PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 09:29:11 -0800 (PST), Chuck Schuyler
>> <chucksch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 8:14:45 AM UTC-6, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:57:53 -0800 (PST), Steven Galbraith
>>>> <stevemg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good post. Several of the claims made by Lattimer - or Alvarez or
>>>>> Bugliosi or Posner - seemed to me to be illogical or simply
>>>>> unsupportable (Bugliosi dismissed the reliability of the nitrate test
>>>>> in one instance and then used it as a reliable in another). Just
>>>>> because they're on "our team" doesn't mean they're right. In fact, we
>>>>> should be extra cautious about things that we agree with, that we're
>>>>> prone to believe because we want to. I.e., confirmation bias.
>>>>
>>>> Amusing that you can't extend that thinking to the WCR. Which
>>>> *PROVABLY* lied about their own collected testimony.
>>>>
>>>> A fact you can't refute, and absolutely REFUSE to debate.
>>>
>>>Are these ...
>>
>> Tut tut tut coward... asking questions won't get you answers unless
>> *YOU* start answering some...
>
>This is ...
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 12:57:17 PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 09:29:11 -0800 (PST), Chuck Schuyler
>> <chucksch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 8:14:45 AM UTC-6, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:57:53 -0800 (PST), Steven Galbraith
>>>> <stevemg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good post. Several of the claims made by Lattimer - or Alvarez or
>>>>> Bugliosi or Posner - seemed to me to be illogical or simply
>>>>> unsupportable (Bugliosi dismissed the reliability of the nitrate test
>>>>> in one instance and then used it as a reliable in another). Just
>>>>> because they're on "our team" doesn't mean they're right. In fact, we
>>>>> should be extra cautious about things that we agree with, that we're
>>>>> prone to believe because we want to. I.e., confirmation bias.
>>>>
>>>> Amusing that you can't extend that thinking to the WCR. Which
>>>> *PROVABLY* lied about their own collected testimony.
>>>>
>>>> A fact you can't refute, and absolutely REFUSE to debate.
>>>
>>>Are these ...
>>
>> Tut tut tut coward... asking questions won't get you answers unless
>> *YOU* start answering some...
>
Simply pointing out the truth.
>> You refuse to refute what I stated...
>
>No one has to refute Ben’s claims.
>> … you absolutely REFUSE to debate
>> the issue.
>
Not a claim, moron. Feel free to prove me wrong.
This is a *FACT."
>> You lose!
>
>This is of course based ...
On cowardice.
Hank Sienzant
Dec 21, 2021, 8:10:18 PM12/21/21
to
1. Simply pointing out the truth.
2. It's not that no-one "has to," it's that no-one can.
3. Not a claim, moron.
4. Feel free to prove me wrong.
5. On cowardice.
A. Ad hominem.
B. Shifting the burden of proof.
C. Begged Question.
D. Ad hominem.
E. Begged Question.
Ben Holmes
Dec 22, 2021, 9:48:27 AM12/22/21
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 17:10:17 -0800 (PST), Hank Sienzant
Endpost whining deleted.
Produce the post where Steven is responding to my post, or admit
you're a liar.
Produce the post where Steven is responding to my post, or admit
you're a liar.
Hank Sienzant
Dec 22, 2021, 12:27:20 PM12/22/21
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A. Shifting the Burden of Proof.
B. Begged Question.
C. Ad hominem.
D. False dichotomy.
E. All of the above.
John Corbett
Dec 22, 2021, 2:44:45 PM12/22/21
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BT George
Dec 22, 2021, 3:07:33 PM12/22/21
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On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 11:43:12 PM UTC-6, Sky Throne 19efppp wrote:
Not for the clueless.
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 5:38:31 AM UTC, John Corbett wrote:
> > It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
> Do you have a point?
> > It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
Not for the clueless.
BT George
Dec 22, 2021, 3:10:48 PM12/22/21
to
On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 9:57:40 AM UTC-6, Hank Sienzant wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:38:31 AM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote:
> > It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
> > It has been hypothesized that JFK exhibited Thorburn's position immediately after being shot in the upper back near the spine. This condition causes the arms to raise up in front of the body and lock in place. I have never heard this position discussed outside of the JFK assassination. I can't be sure of course, but I might have witnessed this in the Thursday night football game. On the Chargers' first possesion of the game, they drove inside the Chiefs' 5 yard line but on fourth down, they attempted a pass to the back of the end zone. It appeared the receiver had caught the ball but he fell awkwardly, his head bounced off the ground, and he dropped the ball. It quickly became apparent he had suffered a serious injury. He was tended to for an extended period of time. Fox took three commercial breaks while the player was being attended to. When they came back they showed the replay and within seconds after dropping the ball, the player's arms thrust upward in front of his body, similar to the position JFK assumed after being shot although his elbows were a bit lower than JFK's. Eventually he was immobilized and strapped to a board. His arms remained in that position as he was carted off the field and his hands were shaking visibly. Later in the game it was reported he had been taken the UCLA Medical Center to be evaluated for a head injury. Of course no mention was made of a possible Thorburn reaction because I doubt many people who aren't assassination buffs have ever heard of it. I can't be sure what I witnessed was a Thorburn response but it was my first thought when I saw him being carted off with his arms seemingly locked in front of his torso with both hands trembling.
> I saw that, and thought the same thing. I saw wide receiver Wayne Chrebet of the Jets do the same thing after a hard hit to the head, which of course was far more prevalent back in “the good old days.”
>
> Damage to the vicinity of the neck causes that reaction. Depending on where the damage is, and the severity, it can vary from a slight tingle and numbness in an arm (in football, it’s called a ‘stinger’ and I’ve had a few in my four years of college football) to total paralysis (Daryl Stingley of the Boston / New England Patriots is the best example. He was hit by Jack “The Assassin” Tatum of the Raiders in a *preseason* game (it didn’t count for anything except live practice, essentially). Pound-for-pound, Tatum was the hardest hitter I ever saw on a football field.
Maybe pound for pound, but I thought Ronnie Lott was or Donnie Shell of the Steelers. Fortunately, the real "kill shots" are being taken out of the game.
>
> Damage to the vicinity of the neck causes that reaction. Depending on where the damage is, and the severity, it can vary from a slight tingle and numbness in an arm (in football, it’s called a ‘stinger’ and I’ve had a few in my four years of college football) to total paralysis (Daryl Stingley of the Boston / New England Patriots is the best example. He was hit by Jack “The Assassin” Tatum of the Raiders in a *preseason* game (it didn’t count for anything except live practice, essentially). Pound-for-pound, Tatum was the hardest hitter I ever saw on a football field.
Ben Holmes
Dec 22, 2021, 4:26:17 PM12/22/21
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 09:27:18 -0800 (PST), Hank Sienzant
Looks like Huckster's a proven liar...
John Corbett
Dec 23, 2021, 7:47:52 AM12/23/21
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of safeties the game has ever seen. Receivers didn't want to go across the middle against the Raiders of the 1970s.
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