The SBT, John Connally's Reactions, And The Zapruder Film

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David Von Pein

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Dec 18, 2007, 7:11:35 PM12/18/07
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>>> "You now have to explain, since you believe Z223 was the point of impact {actually I believe it to be Z224, but you're close}, how JBC's hand could be above and to the right of his nipple and still be injured by the magic bullet." <<<

It wasn't. And you can't prove his wrist was in such a position as of
Z224. .....


Z223:
www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z223.jpg

Z224:
www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z224.jpg


>>> "Clearly, frames 224-230 show just that. Here is a blow-up of frame 230..." <<<

What the hell does Z230 have to do with proving your point here? Z230
is six full frames AFTER the obvious impact point of Z224.

Connally's right arm (containing that same injured wrist) starts
flying aimlessly UP then DOWN at Z226, just an instant after it was
struck at Z224, indicating an involuntary movement of that right arm
(wrist) at that point.

Or do you think Connally had a desire to willfully jerk his right arm
around in such an odd way just an instant BEFORE that SAME WRIST was
hit by a bullet? That's just...frankly...nuts.

And the "arm/hat flip", which begins at Z226, is one of the primary
reasons I can say with a good deal of certainty that Connally was
struck at precisely Z224 by the ONE AND ONLY BULLET that hit him on
November 22, which is just an eyeblink ahead of the involuntary "arm/
hat flip" movement. And an involuntary reaction to a shooting victim
can occur, per many doctors' reports, almost INSTANTANEOUSLY after the
victim has been struck by the projectile.

To the people who think that Connally was hit EARLIER than Z224 (like
Mr. Bugliosi), I'd have to ask: What are the odds of Connally's wrist
performing its little "Hat Dance" just two frames AFTER Z224 if he had
really been hit back at Z210 (VB's favored timeline) or Z190 (the
HSCA's SBT frame number)?

Again, the odds are incredibly low (IMO) that JBC would have been hit
as early as Z190 or Z210 and then (via an obvious INVOLUNTARY
reaction) start performing that "hat flip" as late as Z226. Such an
early SBT hit does not fit Connally's reactions at all.

The same goes with Connally's "open-mouthed grimace", which I see
occurring at Z225 exactly, with no signs of ANY distress on his face
at Z223 or Z224 at all (although I could argue that the BEGINNINGS of
the "distressed" look are starting to form on Connally's face at
Z224)...with this lack of any kind of discernible look of "distress"
as late as Z223 being absolutely incredible, in my opinion, IF he
had, in fact, been hit many frames EARLIER than Z224.

Plus: there's the "shoulder hunching" and the "shoulder drop" of JBC's
right shoulder at Z224-Z226. All of these physical movements (which
are obviously INvoluntary movements occurring on the part of Mr.
Connally; that fact couldn't BE more obvious) are occurring within 1
to 3 frames of a Z224 SBT hit.

If he'd been hit as early as Z190 or Z210, these "Z224 to Z226"
involuntary reactions we're seeing on the Zapruder Film would be
happening a full second (or close to TWO full seconds per the HSCA)
after JBC had actually been struck by Bullet CE399. Which, IMO, is too
long.

And, to argue against the CT beliefs with respect to JBC's reactions
seen in the Zapruder Film, the reactions we see occurring at Z224 to
Z226 would, indeed, be off the "incredible" scale (in favor of "Too
Incredible Of A Coincidence To Be Believed For Even One Second!") if
Governor Connally had actually been hit by a bullet much LATER than
Z224, which is what most conspiracy theorists seem to believe, with
many CTers thinking that JBC wasn't hit until Z236 or Z238.

And some of the wackier kooks even want to believe that Connally
wasn't hit by any bullet until AFTER the fatal head shot struck
President Kennedy!

I guess, per those crazy CTers, the Governor DID decide to VOLUNTARILY
jerk that right arm up and down very rapidly (in the space of only 3
or 4 Z-Film frames) just PRIOR to that same arm being struck by a
bullet.

Go figure. ~shrug~

==============================================

THE SINGLE-BULLET THEORY IN ACTION:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/88cd14ec6de230eb

==============================================

Gil Jesus

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Dec 18, 2007, 8:21:09 PM12/18/07
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All of the answers are here:

"Wound of Entry" -- The truth behind President Kennedy's throat wound.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QLFOzwsYSM

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sl6V-0nK3c

After he was shot in the throat, was JFK trying to cough up a
bullet ?
See the videos that have Cdddraftsman "choking" on them and decide for
yourself.

At Normal Speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3uH7FHjCeQ

With Slow Motion added:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSov5IA4N8A

With Blowup Frames:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd1o0UTb3oc

want more ?

http://www.youtube.com/GJJdude

Burly...@gmail.com

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Dec 18, 2007, 8:46:50 PM12/18/07
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On Dec 18, 8:21 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> All of the answers are here:
>
> "Wound of Entry" -- The truth behind President Kennedy's throat wound.
>
> Part 1
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QLFOzwsYSM
>
> Part 2
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sl6V-0nK3c
>
> After he was shot in the throat, was JFK trying to cough up a
> bullet ?

No. I would say that he was gagging/heaving, though, but definitely
NOT trying to ''cough up a bullet". That's ludicrous in every sense.

> See the videos that have Cdddraftsman "choking" on them and decide for
> yourself.
>
> At Normal Speed:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3uH7FHjCeQ
>
> With Slow Motion added:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSov5IA4N8A
>
> With Blowup Frames:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd1o0UTb3oc
>
> want more ?

Not really.

>
> http://www.youtube.com/GJJdude

Gil Jesus

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Dec 18, 2007, 8:52:01 PM12/18/07
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On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, BurlyGu...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 18, 8:21 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > All of the answers are here:
>
> > "Wound of Entry" -- The truth behind President Kennedy's throat wound.
>
> > Part 1
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QLFOzwsYSM
>
> > Part 2
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sl6V-0nK3c
>
> > After he was shot in the throat, was JFK trying to cough up a
> > bullet ?
>
> No. I would say that he was gagging/heaving, though, but definitely
> NOT trying to ''cough up a bullet". That's ludicrous in every sense.

Perhaps you should research more and judge less:

here's some "ludicrous" examples WITH THE LINKS :

Is it possible that a bullet was lodged in JFK's throat ?
Consider the following:

William Jay Gaynor
94th Mayor of New York City, 1910--1913
[1848-1913]

A one time member of the Christian Brothers order, William Jay Gaynor
would disappoint Tammany Hall when they nominated him for mayor in
1909. Although Gaynor abandoned the Christian order in 1869, later
becoming a crusading reporter and Brooklyn attorney, he retained his
righteous temperament. Elected to the New York Supreme Court in 1893,
and appointed to the Appellate Division, Second Department in 1905,
Gaynor's rulings were often cited around the country. His reputation
as an honest reformer helped win him election as mayor in 1909.

On January 1, 1910, he walked to City Hall from his home in Brooklyn --
it was the first time he had ever visited the seat of city government
-- and addressed the 1,500 people gathered to greet him:"I enter upon
this office with the intention of doing the very best I can for the
City of New York. That will have to suffice; I can do no more."
Gaynor's marriage with Tammany Hall was short-lived; soon after taking
office, he filled high level government posts with experts and city
employees were chosen from civil service lists in the order they
appeared, effectively curbing patronage and nepotism. As mayor, he
railed against efforts to thwart the further development of the New
York City subway system. A strong willed but compassionate mayor,
Gaynor once remarked, "The world does not grow better by force or by
the policeman's club."

Early in his first term, Gaynor was shot in the throat by a discharged
city employee, the only New York City mayor to suffer an assassination
attempt. Although he quickly recovered, the bullet remained lodged in
his throat for the next three years. During his term as mayor, Gaynor
was widely considered a strong candidate for Governor or President.
Tammany Hall refused to nominate him for reelection to a second term,
but after accepting the nomination from an independent group of
voters, he set sail for Europe. Six days later, on September 10, 1913,
Gaynor died suddenly from the lingering effects of the shooting.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nyc100/html/classroom/hist_info/mayors.html#gaynor
--------------------------------------------------
Bullet in neck for more than a week Jul 26 2005
By Ben Ashford, South London Press

SURGEONS were yesterday waiting to remove a bullet lodged in a gunshot
victim's throat for more than a week.
The 29-year-old was blasted at close range in a mystery ambush.
The bullet tore through his flesh and embedded itself at the base of
his neck - missing major arteries supplying blood to the brain by
millimetres.
He was rushed to hospital where surgeons saved his life. But despite a
lengthy operation they failed to dislodge the bullet.
The victim has been unable to speak since the attack in Windrush
Square, Brixton, on Friday, July 15, and has had to rely on facial
expressions and written notes to communicate with loved ones.

http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0400lambeth/tm_objectid=15781293&method=full&siteid=50100&headline=bullet%2Din%2Dneck%2Dfor%2Dmore%2Dthan%2Da%2Dweek-name_page.html
-----------------------------------------------------
HARDY DEE CUMBY was born on 10 Jun 1864 in (probably ) Cooksville,
Tenn. He died on 14 Mar 1928 in Sherman, Tx. He was buried in Sherman,
Tx. Hardy Dee was a lawyer and a judge.
While coming out of the Sherman courthouse, was hit by a stray bullet,
which lodged in his throat. for quite sometime, he was unable to
speak. He recovered but did die as a result of this bullet some years
later.

http://members.fortunecity.com/bdlamb/d16.htm
------------------------------------------------------
Coughing Up a Bullet

Clifford Johnson, 27, was shot by E.M. Pigg on Sept. 12, 1913. Pigg
thought Johnson was a burglar. Johnson was from Wister, Okla., and
after a night of drinking in Fort Smith, he decided to walk to Van
Buren. Johnson got lost and at about 2 a.m. went up to Pigg's home to
ask for someone to call him a cab to take him to Van Buren so he could
catch a train back to Wister.
Pigg said he had listened to noises of Johnson outside his home for
about a half hour. When Johnson tried to open his back door, Pigg said
he opened fire with his revolver. One bullet lodged in his neck.

For several days, Johnson recovered at Sparks Memorial Hospital, but
the bullet was in such a place that the physicians couldn't safely
operate on Johnson to remove it. In late September, Johnson took a
train from Wister to testify against Pigg at trial. While on the
train, Johnson was seized by a violent cough. After he finished
coughing, Johnson felt something heavy in his handkerchief. One
examining it, he found the bullet.

According to doctors, the bullet worked its way near the lining of
Johnson throat from just below his right ear. An abcess formed on the
outer lining of his throat which brought the bullet closer to the
surface. Discharge from the abcess caused Johnson to cough up the
bullet. The bullet had severed several nerves in his neck and cut a
tonsil in two.
Pigg originally was charged with assault with intent to kill but the
charge was reduced to aggravated assault. He was fined $50 but wasn't
jailed.

Sources:


"Bullet In Neck of Man Is Expelled by Violent Cough," Fort Smith
Times Record, Sept. 26, 1913, p. 1;
"Oklahoman Is Badly Shot, Two Stories Told of Case," Fort Smith Times
Record, Sept. 12, 1913, p. 1.

http://fortsmithhistory.com/archive/cough.html

Burly...@gmail.com

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Dec 18, 2007, 9:00:52 PM12/18/07
to
On Dec 18, 8:52 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, BurlyGu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 18, 8:21 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > All of the answers are here:
>
> > > "Wound of Entry" -- The truth behind President Kennedy's throat wound.
>
> > > Part 1
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QLFOzwsYSM
>
> > > Part 2
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sl6V-0nK3c
>
> > > After he was shot in the throat, was JFK trying to cough up a
> > > bullet ?
>
> > No. I would say that he was gagging/heaving, though, but definitely
> > NOT trying to ''cough up a bullet". That's ludicrous in every sense.
>
> Perhaps you should research more and judge less:

I've done more research than you could ever possibly know on this
ubject. Mr. Jesus, which is why I said what I said.

The bullet travelling at nearly 2,000 fps would never have remained in
his throat.

>
> here's some "ludicrous" examples WITH THE LINKS :
>
> Is it possible that a bullet was lodged in JFK's throat ?

I already said "no."

> http://www.nyc.gov/html/nyc100/html/classroom/hist_info/mayors.html#g...


> --------------------------------------------------
> Bullet in neck for more than a week Jul 26 2005
> By Ben Ashford, South London Press
>
> SURGEONS were yesterday waiting to remove a bullet lodged in a gunshot
> victim's throat for more than a week.
> The 29-year-old was blasted at close range in a mystery ambush.
> The bullet tore through his flesh and embedded itself at the base of
> his neck - missing major arteries supplying blood to the brain by
> millimetres.
> He was rushed to hospital where surgeons saved his life. But despite a
> lengthy operation they failed to dislodge the bullet.
> The victim has been unable to speak since the attack in Windrush
> Square, Brixton, on Friday, July 15, and has had to rely on facial
> expressions and written notes to communicate with loved ones.
>

> http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0400lambeth/tm_objectid...

> http://fortsmithhistory.com/archive/cough.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

bigdog

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Dec 18, 2007, 9:08:54 PM12/18/07
to
> http://www.nyc.gov/html/nyc100/html/classroom/hist_info/mayors.html#g...

> --------------------------------------------------
> Bullet in neck for more than a week Jul 26 2005
> By Ben Ashford, South London Press
>
> SURGEONS were yesterday waiting to remove a bullet lodged in a gunshot
> victim's throat for more than a week.
> The 29-year-old was blasted at close range in a mystery ambush.
> The bullet tore through his flesh and embedded itself at the base of
> his neck - missing major arteries supplying blood to the brain by
> millimetres.
> He was rushed to hospital where surgeons saved his life. But despite a
> lengthy operation they failed to dislodge the bullet.
> The victim has been unable to speak since the attack in Windrush
> Square, Brixton, on Friday, July 15, and has had to rely on facial
> expressions and written notes to communicate with loved ones.
>
> http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0400lambeth/tm_objectid...
> http://fortsmithhistory.com/archive/cough.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just what do you suppose happened to the bullet that JFK was trying to
cough up. Maybe it was CE399? No wait, that bullet was matched to the
rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD? Maybe it could have been
the fragmented bullet found in the limo. No wait. Same problem. Did it
remained lodged in his throat? No, autopsy x-rays would have found
that. Did he spit it up in the Parkland ER. Ya, that's were they found
CE399. Oh shit. We've already been there. Maybe it just disolved in
his throat. That's it. A magic disolving bullet.

MAGIC BULLET SCOREBOARD
CTs 13
LNs 0

aeffects

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Dec 19, 2007, 4:33:10 AM12/19/07
to
On Dec 18, 4:11 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

below, the most intelligent thing you've said in 3 years...... since
you assumed the David VonPein title

[...]
> Go figure. ~shrug~
>
[...]

aeffects

unread,
Dec 19, 2007, 4:37:48 AM12/19/07
to
> http://www.nyc.gov/html/nyc100/html/classroom/hist_info/mayors.html#g...

> --------------------------------------------------
> Bullet in neck for more than a week Jul 26 2005
> By Ben Ashford, South London Press
>
> SURGEONS were yesterday waiting to remove a bullet lodged in a gunshot
> victim's throat for more than a week.
> The 29-year-old was blasted at close range in a mystery ambush.
> The bullet tore through his flesh and embedded itself at the base of
> his neck - missing major arteries supplying blood to the brain by
> millimetres.
> He was rushed to hospital where surgeons saved his life. But despite a
> lengthy operation they failed to dislodge the bullet.
> The victim has been unable to speak since the attack in Windrush
> Square, Brixton, on Friday, July 15, and has had to rely on facial
> expressions and written notes to communicate with loved ones.
>
> http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0400lambeth/tm_objectid...

you'll overwhelm them with research Gil, careful..... I suspect 5-10
days for a decent response (takes that much time for the LN handlers
to compile answers re research data questions

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Dec 19, 2007, 5:50:42 AM12/19/07
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>>> "You now have to explain, since you believe Z223 was the point of impact {actually I believe it to be Z224, but you're close}, how JBC's hand could be above and to the right of his nipple and still be injured by the magic bullet." <<<

It wasn't. And you can't prove his wrist was in such a position as of
Z224. .....


Z223:
www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z223.jpg

Z224:
www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z224.jpg


>>> "Clearly, frames 224-230 show just that. Here is a blow-up of frame 230..." <<<

What the heck does Z230 have to do with proving your point here? Z230


is six full frames AFTER the obvious impact point of Z224.

Connally's right arm (containing that same injured wrist) starts
flying aimlessly UP then DOWN at Z226, just an instant after it was
struck at Z224, indicating an involuntary movement of that right arm
(wrist) at that point.

Or do you think Connally had a desire to willfully jerk his right arm
around in such an odd way just an instant BEFORE that SAME WRIST was
hit by a bullet? That's just...frankly...nuts.

And the "arm/hat flip", which begins at Z226, is one of the primary
reasons I can say with a good deal of certainty that Connally was
struck at precisely Z224 by the ONE AND ONLY BULLET that hit him on
November 22, which is just an eyeblink ahead of the involuntary "arm/
hat flip" movement.

And a victim's involuntary reaction to a gunshot wound can occur,
according to many doctors, "almost simultaneously with the injuries".
[Via 7 HSCA 179; excerpt provided below.]

And that's what we find with respect to both JFK's and Governor
Connally's visible reactions at Z225.*


* = Bearing in mind, of course, that President Kennedy is technically
hidden by that damn Stemmons Freeway sign at the precise moment when I
believe the SBT bullet is going through him at Z224. But such an
"almost simultaneous" involuntary reaction with respect to Governor
Connally specifically is, IMO, being demonstrated very clearly, and in
full living color, on Abraham Zapruder's home movie between frames 224
and 226.

=========================

"The {HSCA's forensic pathology} panel notes the interval
between the observable reactions of the President and the Governor at
the time of their injuries, as seen in the Zapruder film. Some
observers have contended that the interval is too long to permit the
conclusion that a single bullet struck both men.

"The majority of the panel believes that the interval is
consistent with the single-bullet theory. At issue is the time delay
between bullet impact and the observable reactions of each man to his
injury, which in turn is determined by many factors, including whether
or not their reactions were voluntary or involuntary. If involuntary,
they would have occurred almost simultaneously with the injuries. If
voluntary, there is often a slight delay in reacting." -- HSCA Volume
7; Page 179


http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0095a.htm


=========================

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