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FBI Intimidation - Just For Jean
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Ben Holmes
May 25, 2012, 12:16:22 AM5/25/12
to
Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time now. (So too, Eddie
"Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. Other LNT'ers are too
smart to get close to this post.) First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps telling
everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
Toddy *asked* for this post. Now, he's too gutless to respond to it.
All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
********************************
Todd, just like other LNT'ers, refuse to see what is right before their eyes,
and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't refute
it.
Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
********************************
Since the FBI, as early as Saturday, was *telling* eyewitnesses that there were
only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hear, it's
amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
And considering the number of people who've come forward to state that their
affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing that as
much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
********************************
But Todd won't actually *respond* to this... so let's add some more accounts to
the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
Courthouse building. He testified:
Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: Were you threatened in any way --
THE COURT: I sustain the objection. You cannot tell us the words used by someone
who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
conversations with them and what did you do as a result of the conversation, I
will permit that.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
what did you do?
A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
A: No, sir.
Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
assassination and I said I did. They told me, 'If you didn't see Lee Harvey
Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness it.'" I
said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey Oswald
was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.' And
(one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me what I
saw, he told me what I saw."
But perhaps Todd doesn't find anything strange about reports such as this.
After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to the
case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ... one
that he won't address.
Ed Hoffman, the deaf mute who belatedly came forward and claimed to have seen
two men with a rifle behind the pickett fence on the grassy knoll, stated that
he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
Then we have an attorney, Carroll Jarnagin, who reported being an eyewitness to
a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, FBI
agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, tried
accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
"clearly abuse of a witness."
Moving along to more august eyewitnesses, Senator Ralph Yarborough was shocked
at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly not
the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a couple
of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure him to
sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassination"
and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding this up,"
and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986, "...I
typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars all
stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the
protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when a shot
is fired."
If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or respect
those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. David
Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd been
"pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the WC would
have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony was
never put in the record.
(Now is perhaps a good time to mention that Todd had no response to make when I
mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just one of
the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
eyewitness to the murder, *a policeman* at that, was never questioned by anyone
prior to the WCR being released?
Nor can you argue that the WC was unaware of him - Anyone can view the Altgen's
photo, and see him for themselves."
Todd couldn't find the strength to respond to this... but perhaps this isn't
covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
Moving on... David Lifton reports Tomlinson's account, who history has recorded
as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
midnight, and being told to keep his mouth shut about what he'd found. Tomlinson
noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
Mark Lane records this statement of Jean Hill: "For two years I have told the
truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teacher. My
principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and I just
can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know it's
all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about it
anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to continue to
teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about the case
anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us that
there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation with
O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fence
behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "That's not
what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right, I told
the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and
that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me
to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family." But
nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing ever
happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
While I'm sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
Why... none at all.
Congratulations, Todd!
(By the way Jean, I need to locate a cite to a contemporary newspaper article
that detailed how silent the eyewitnesses all got after a visit from the FBI, so
I can add it to the list. Perhaps you already know about this article)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
"Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. Other LNT'ers are too
smart to get close to this post.) First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps telling
everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
Toddy *asked* for this post. Now, he's too gutless to respond to it.
All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
********************************
Todd, just like other LNT'ers, refuse to see what is right before their eyes,
and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't refute
it.
Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
********************************
Since the FBI, as early as Saturday, was *telling* eyewitnesses that there were
only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hear, it's
amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
And considering the number of people who've come forward to state that their
affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing that as
much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
********************************
But Todd won't actually *respond* to this... so let's add some more accounts to
the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
Courthouse building. He testified:
Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: Were you threatened in any way --
THE COURT: I sustain the objection. You cannot tell us the words used by someone
who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
conversations with them and what did you do as a result of the conversation, I
will permit that.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
what did you do?
A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
A: No, sir.
Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
assassination and I said I did. They told me, 'If you didn't see Lee Harvey
Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness it.'" I
said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey Oswald
was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.' And
(one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me what I
saw, he told me what I saw."
But perhaps Todd doesn't find anything strange about reports such as this.
After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to the
case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ... one
that he won't address.
Ed Hoffman, the deaf mute who belatedly came forward and claimed to have seen
two men with a rifle behind the pickett fence on the grassy knoll, stated that
he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
Then we have an attorney, Carroll Jarnagin, who reported being an eyewitness to
a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, FBI
agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, tried
accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
"clearly abuse of a witness."
Moving along to more august eyewitnesses, Senator Ralph Yarborough was shocked
at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly not
the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a couple
of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure him to
sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassination"
and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding this up,"
and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986, "...I
typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars all
stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the
protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when a shot
is fired."
If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or respect
those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. David
Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd been
"pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the WC would
have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony was
never put in the record.
(Now is perhaps a good time to mention that Todd had no response to make when I
mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just one of
the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
eyewitness to the murder, *a policeman* at that, was never questioned by anyone
prior to the WCR being released?
Nor can you argue that the WC was unaware of him - Anyone can view the Altgen's
photo, and see him for themselves."
Todd couldn't find the strength to respond to this... but perhaps this isn't
covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
Moving on... David Lifton reports Tomlinson's account, who history has recorded
as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
midnight, and being told to keep his mouth shut about what he'd found. Tomlinson
noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
Mark Lane records this statement of Jean Hill: "For two years I have told the
truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teacher. My
principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and I just
can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know it's
all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about it
anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to continue to
teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about the case
anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us that
there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation with
O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fence
behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "That's not
what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right, I told
the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and
that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me
to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family." But
nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing ever
happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
While I'm sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
Why... none at all.
Congratulations, Todd!
(By the way Jean, I need to locate a cite to a contemporary newspaper article
that detailed how silent the eyewitnesses all got after a visit from the FBI, so
I can add it to the list. Perhaps you already know about this article)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
Bud
May 25, 2012, 6:41:28 AM5/25/12
to
"Can you admit the FBI intimidation of eyewitnesses that began
changing what was
being reported?"
Does anyone see in any examples that Ben is offering of the FBI
causing the information that the witnesses supplied to be changed?
mainframetech
May 25, 2012, 8:23:24 AM5/25/12
to
the FBI did so not only in this case, but in other major events such
as TWA800 and 9-11.
Look into the statement of Acquilla Clemmons of Dallas who
witnessed the aftermath of the Tippit shooting. She stated clearly
that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
FBI) told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
what she saw. She had told them she saw a short, heavy man reloading
his gun after shooting Tippit, and she also saw a different man
fitting LHO's description running away after the short, heavy man
waved him to go on. After being warned by the FBI, she remained
silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
Chris
Bill Clarke
May 25, 2012, 9:36:51 AM5/25/12
to
In article <jpn12...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
Bill Clarke
Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
Bill Clarke
Ben Holmes
May 25, 2012, 9:41:37 AM5/25/12
to
In article <jpo1t...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
You can't refute what Mark Lane said, nor can you help out your fellow kook,
Toddy, in refuting the FBI intimidation in this case.
Tell us, do you even *know* anything about the murder of JFK?
>
>In article <jpn12...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
>
>Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
>
>Bill Clarke
Your constant cowardice is still being displayed Billy.
>In article <jpn12...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
>
>Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
>
>Bill Clarke
You can't refute what Mark Lane said, nor can you help out your fellow kook,
Toddy, in refuting the FBI intimidation in this case.
Tell us, do you even *know* anything about the murder of JFK?
Bud
May 25, 2012, 11:54:12 AM5/25/12
to
> and it is clear from my own digging up of witness statements that
> the FBI did so not only in this case, but in other major events such
> as TWA800 and 9-11.
the moon, either".
> Look into the statement of Acquilla Clemmons of Dallas who
> witnessed the aftermath of the Tippit shooting.
> She stated clearly
> that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
> FBI)
> told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
> what she saw.
believe wholeheartedly because you have no critical thinking skills to
call your own that will take you absolutely nowhere.
> She had told them she saw a short, heavy man reloading
> his gun after shooting Tippit, and she also saw a different man
> fitting LHO's description running away after the short, heavy man
> waved him to go on.
within 50 feet of the Tippit slaying.
> After being warned by the FBI, she remained
> silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
>
> Chris
Bill Clarke
May 25, 2012, 5:43:24 PM5/25/12
to
In article <jpo26...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
Americans".
> nor can you help out your fellow kook,
As you have recently painfully learned, they don't need my help. They are doing
an outstanding job of kicking your stupid ass as it is.
>Toddy, in refuting the FBI intimidation in this case.
>
>
>Tell us, do you even *know* anything about the murder of JFK?
Of course I do Yellow Pants. It really isn't all that complicated and the fact
that whackos have made a cottage industry out of making it complicated with all
the conspiracy bullshit doesn't change that fact.
Here is all you need to know Benny about the murder of JFK. Three shots were
fired from the BD. JFK had his brains blown out. End of story. The rest, as
they say, is history.
Bill Clarke
>
>In article <jpo1t...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>>
>>In article <jpn12...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>>
>>
>>Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
>>
>>Bill Clarke
>
>
>Your constant cowardice is still being displayed Billy.
>
>You can't refute what Mark Lane said,
Oh but I can! Come back to see me when you've read his "Conversations with
>In article <jpo1t...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>>
>>In article <jpn12...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>>
>>
>>Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
>>
>>Bill Clarke
>
>
>Your constant cowardice is still being displayed Billy.
>
>You can't refute what Mark Lane said,
Americans".
> nor can you help out your fellow kook,
an outstanding job of kicking your stupid ass as it is.
>Toddy, in refuting the FBI intimidation in this case.
>
>
>Tell us, do you even *know* anything about the murder of JFK?
that whackos have made a cottage industry out of making it complicated with all
the conspiracy bullshit doesn't change that fact.
Here is all you need to know Benny about the murder of JFK. Three shots were
fired from the BD. JFK had his brains blown out. End of story. The rest, as
they say, is history.
Bill Clarke
timstter
May 25, 2012, 6:47:31 PM5/25/12
to
argument he had with Todd Vaughan on this board YEARS ago.
Earth to Benny: Er, Holmes, Todd Vaughan hasn't posted here for quite
a number of YEARS, Benny. Are you feeling all right, Benny?
Looks like that kicking you got from Jean & Co. has taken it's toll,
Benny.
You better switch that killfilter on.
Concerned Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
ps BTW, that argument about changing the topic is now out of the
window, is it, Holmes? TB
mainframetech
May 25, 2012, 7:34:56 PM5/25/12
to
> > > Ben`s claim yesterday was this...
>
> > > "Can you admit the FBI intimidation of eyewitnesses that began
> > > changing what was
> > > being reported?"
>
> > > Does anyone see in any examples that Ben is offering of the FBI
> > > causing the information that the witnesses supplied to be changed?
>
> > Yes,
>
> Where? Quote one.
>
> > and it is clear from my own digging up of witness statements that
> > the FBI did so not only in this case, but in other major events such
> > as TWA800 and 9-11.
>
> Stay on-topic retarded, we don`t have time for "we didn`t land on
> the moon, either".
>
Look here small time, I posted the link to the video of the woman's
>
> > > "Can you admit the FBI intimidation of eyewitnesses that began
> > > changing what was
> > > being reported?"
>
> > > Does anyone see in any examples that Ben is offering of the FBI
> > > causing the information that the witnesses supplied to be changed?
>
> > Yes,
>
> Where? Quote one.
>
> > and it is clear from my own digging up of witness statements that
> > the FBI did so not only in this case, but in other major events such
> > as TWA800 and 9-11.
>
> Stay on-topic retarded, we don`t have time for "we didn`t land on
> the moon, either".
>
statement and I see it is now deleted. Probably a scared dunce afraid
of what it will say. Here it is all over again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
And we DID land on the Moon...:)
> > Look into the statement of Acquilla Clemmons of Dallas who
> > witnessed the aftermath of the Tippit shooting.
>
> Produce the statement she gave to the authorities.
record, so they told her to shut up or get hurt. Do you think after
that they would then file an official report of the meeting ot her
statement? I don't think so. A witness statement is just as good as
sworn testimony when the commission is corrupt and selecting only
certain witnesses and evidence.
>
> > She stated clearly
> > that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
> > FBI)
>
> What FBI agents were at the Tippit murder scene?
Get off it. Their names weren't mentioned, and the woman didn't
> > She stated clearly
> > that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
> > FBI)
>
> What FBI agents were at the Tippit murder scene?
remember.
>
> > told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
> > what she saw.
>
> Great, another fantastic story with no corroboration you will
> believe wholeheartedly because you have no critical thinking skills to
> call your own that will take you absolutely nowhere.
Stuff it smalltime. There are many corroborative statements about
> > told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
> > what she saw.
>
> Great, another fantastic story with no corroboration you will
> believe wholeheartedly because you have no critical thinking skills to
> call your own that will take you absolutely nowhere.
the FBI shutting up witnesses or changing their statements,
threatening them and losing or screwing up evidence that didn't agree
with the story told by the WC.
>
> > She had told them she saw a short, heavy man reloading
> > his gun after shooting Tippit, and she also saw a different man
> > fitting LHO's description running away after the short, heavy man
> > waved him to go on.
>
> Reconcile that account with the accounts of the half dozen witnesses
> within 50 feet of the Tippit slaying.
Reconcile your hopes with the fact that the other witnesses might
> > She had told them she saw a short, heavy man reloading
> > his gun after shooting Tippit, and she also saw a different man
> > fitting LHO's description running away after the short, heavy man
> > waved him to go on.
>
> Reconcile that account with the accounts of the half dozen witnesses
> within 50 feet of the Tippit slaying.
have been intimidated by the FBI who no doubt spoke with each of
them. As well, since Oswald (or someone that looked like him) was
running down the street he might have drawn more attention than a guy
standing quietly reloading his gun and walking to a car.
>
> > After being warned by the FBI, she remained
> > silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
>
> Why should she be scared, she knew the threat never occurred.
That's on the ridiculous side, even for you. If they threatened you,
> > After being warned by the FBI, she remained
> > silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
>
> Why should she be scared, she knew the threat never occurred.
I expect you'd mess your pants.
And with all your talk of producing evidence or 'official'
statements, what do we do with Sergerant Hill of the DPD that looked
at a shell on the street from the killer's gun and declared the gun to
be an automatic? He called it in that way too. And there is also a
report that NO shells were found from the gun that Oswald carried.
Here's the story:
"Sgt. Gerald Hill, an officer with many years of army experience and
police work behind him recognized that the shells were ejected from an
automatic pistol, he radioed this information immediately to
headquarters. At the same time he ordered Office J.M. Poe to mark the
casings with his initials to record the chain of evidence."
From: http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/critical_summaries/articles/wean_chap_44.html
No one familiar with handguns (a cop and ex-marine should be and
Hill was) could make a mistake about the gun type because simply
looking at the shell tells you all you need to know.
The bullets couldn't be matched to the gun, and there was a
question about what kind of gun it was. Revolver or automatic. And
whether there really was any bullets kept, or were they lost? There
were also questions about thew type of shells left on the ground (if
any were) Remington or Winchester. One story has it that there werer
2 ans 2 of each, and another story says that it was 1 and 3. Another
foulup with evidence.
>
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
Hudson, Wilfred Baetz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
5. Sam Holland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
Intimidation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
Chris
Samantha Brown
May 25, 2012, 8:05:33 PM5/25/12
to
"mainframetech" <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8dc4bfe1-b2f0-4ad2...@f7g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
cited?
Bud
May 25, 2012, 8:55:01 PM5/25/12
to
> > > Look into the statement of Acquilla Clemmons of Dallas who
> > > witnessed the aftermath of the Tippit shooting.
>
> > Produce the statement she gave to the authorities.
>
> Give it up fool. The 'authorities didn't want her statement in the
> record, so they told her to shut up or get hurt. Do you think after
> that they would then file an official report of the meeting ot her
> statement? I don't think so. A witness statement is just as good as
> sworn testimony when the commission is corrupt and selecting only
> certain witnesses and evidence.
witnesses. Rest, idiot.
> > > She stated clearly
> > > that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
> > > FBI)
>
> > What FBI agents were at the Tippit murder scene?
>
> Get off it. Their names weren't mentioned, and the woman didn't
> remember.
the FBI was on the scene? Media is there. Dallas cops are there. A
multitude of people milling around.
> > > told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
> > > what she saw.
>
> > Great, another fantastic story with no corroboration you will
> > believe wholeheartedly because you have no critical thinking skills to
> > call your own that will take you absolutely nowhere.
>
> Stuff it smalltime. There are many corroborative statements about
> the FBI shutting up witnesses or changing their statements,
> threatening them and losing or screwing up evidence that didn't agree
> with the story told by the WC.
Oswald was just guilty.
> > > She had told them she saw a short, heavy man reloading
> > > his gun after shooting Tippit, and she also saw a different man
> > > fitting LHO's description running away after the short, heavy man
> > > waved him to go on.
>
> > Reconcile that account with the accounts of the half dozen witnesses
> > within 50 feet of the Tippit slaying.
>
> Reconcile your hopes with the fact that the other witnesses might
> have been intimidated by the FBI who no doubt spoke with each of
> them.
Another idiot raised on TV...
> As well, since Oswald (or someone that looked like him) was
> running down the street he might have drawn more attention than a guy
> standing quietly reloading his gun and walking to a car.
> > > After being warned by the FBI, she remained
> > > silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
>
> > Why should she be scared, she knew the threat never occurred.
>
> That's on the ridiculous side, even for you. If they threatened you,
> I expect you'd mess your pants.
> And with all your talk of producing evidence or 'official'
> statements, what do we do with Sergerant Hill of the DPD that looked
> at a shell on the street from the killer's gun and declared the gun to
> be an automatic?
Any idea where the shells would have been if Tippit was shot by an
automatic, idiot?
> He called it in that way too. And there is also a
> report that NO shells were found from the gun that Oswald carried.
> Here's the story:
>
> "Sgt. Gerald Hill, an officer with many years of army experience and
> police work behind him recognized that the shells were ejected from an
> automatic pistol, he radioed this information immediately to
> headquarters. At the same time he ordered Office J.M. Poe to mark the
> casings with his initials to record the chain of evidence."
>
> From:http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/critical_summaries/articles/wean_chap_44...
>
> No one familiar with handguns (a cop and ex-marine should be and
> Hill was) could make a mistake about the gun type because simply
> looking at the shell tells you all you need to know.
>
> The bullets couldn't be matched to the gun, and there was a
> question about what kind of gun it was. Revolver or automatic. And
> whether there really was any bullets kept, or were they lost? There
> were also questions about thew type of shells left on the ground (if
> any were) Remington or Winchester. One story has it that there werer
> 2 ans 2 of each, and another story says that it was 1 and 3. Another
> foulup with evidence.
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> No one familiar with handguns (a cop and ex-marine should be and
> Hill was) could make a mistake about the gun type because simply
> looking at the shell tells you all you need to know.
>
> The bullets couldn't be matched to the gun, and there was a
> question about what kind of gun it was. Revolver or automatic. And
> whether there really was any bullets kept, or were they lost? There
> were also questions about thew type of shells left on the ground (if
> any were) Remington or Winchester. One story has it that there werer
> 2 ans 2 of each, and another story says that it was 1 and 3. Another
> foulup with evidence.
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
Ben Holmes
May 25, 2012, 10:28:58 PM5/25/12
to
In article <jpoud...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
Take your meds and reread...
>> nor can you help out your fellow kook,
>
>As you have recently painfully learned, they don't need my help. They are doing
>an outstanding job of kicking your stupid ass as it is.
Confused again?
>>Toddy, in refuting the FBI intimidation in this case.
>>
>>
>>Tell us, do you even *know* anything about the murder of JFK?
>
>Of course I do Yellow Pants. It really isn't all that complicated and the fact
>that whackos have made a cottage industry out of making it complicated with all
>the conspiracy bullshit doesn't change that fact.
>
>Here is all you need to know Benny about the murder of JFK. Three shots were
>fired from the BD. JFK had his brains blown out. End of story. The rest, as
>they say, is history.
>
>Bill Clarke
If this were true, you'd be able to support it.
Coward, aren't you Billy?
>
>In article <jpo26...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>>
>>In article <jpo1t...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>>>
>>>In article <jpn12...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>>>
>>>
>>>Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
>>>
>>>Bill Clarke
>>
>>
>>Your constant cowardice is still being displayed Billy.
>>
>>You can't refute what Mark Lane said,
>
>Oh but I can! Come back to see me when you've read his "Conversations with
>Americans".
Perhaps you're confused again about the topic of this forum.
>In article <jpo26...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>>
>>In article <jpo1t...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>>>
>>>In article <jpn12...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>>>
>>>
>>>Give it up Benny. She has already made you look small. Very very small.
>>>
>>>Bill Clarke
>>
>>
>>Your constant cowardice is still being displayed Billy.
>>
>>You can't refute what Mark Lane said,
>
>Oh but I can! Come back to see me when you've read his "Conversations with
>Americans".
Take your meds and reread...
>> nor can you help out your fellow kook,
>
>As you have recently painfully learned, they don't need my help. They are doing
>an outstanding job of kicking your stupid ass as it is.
>>Toddy, in refuting the FBI intimidation in this case.
>>
>>
>>Tell us, do you even *know* anything about the murder of JFK?
>
>Of course I do Yellow Pants. It really isn't all that complicated and the fact
>that whackos have made a cottage industry out of making it complicated with all
>the conspiracy bullshit doesn't change that fact.
>
>Here is all you need to know Benny about the murder of JFK. Three shots were
>fired from the BD. JFK had his brains blown out. End of story. The rest, as
>they say, is history.
>
>Bill Clarke
Coward, aren't you Billy?
mainframetech
May 26, 2012, 7:48:43 AM5/26/12
to
On May 25, 8:05 pm, "Samantha Brown" <samjbrow...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> "mainframetech" <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
sergeant simply couldn't make a mistake of that kind. The person that
wrote the note (26) made an error...:) I take it you are also
familiar with the difference? If so, how do you suppose a careful
examination of a shell could be mistaken?
Chris
> "mainframetech" <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> From:http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/critical_summaries/articles/wean_chap_44...
>
> No one familiar with handguns (a cop and ex-marine should be and
> Hill was) could make a mistake about the gun type because simply
> looking at the shell tells you all you need to know.
>
> The bullets couldn't be matched to the gun, and there was a
> question about what kind of gun it was. Revolver or automatic. And
> whether there really was any bullets kept, or were they lost? There
> were also questions about thew type of shells left on the ground (if
> any were) Remington or Winchester. One story has it that there werer
> 2 ans 2 of each, and another story says that it was 1 and 3. Another
> foulup with evidence.
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> No one familiar with handguns (a cop and ex-marine should be and
> Hill was) could make a mistake about the gun type because simply
> looking at the shell tells you all you need to know.
>
> The bullets couldn't be matched to the gun, and there was a
> question about what kind of gun it was. Revolver or automatic. And
> whether there really was any bullets kept, or were they lost? There
> were also questions about thew type of shells left on the ground (if
> any were) Remington or Winchester. One story has it that there werer
> 2 ans 2 of each, and another story says that it was 1 and 3. Another
> foulup with evidence.
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
> Intimidationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
>
> Chris
>
> Just out of curiosity, did you read the notes at the end of the article you
> cited?
Sure thing. Did you read my comments above? An ex-marine and a DPD
> Chris
>
> Just out of curiosity, did you read the notes at the end of the article you
> cited?
sergeant simply couldn't make a mistake of that kind. The person that
wrote the note (26) made an error...:) I take it you are also
familiar with the difference? If so, how do you suppose a careful
examination of a shell could be mistaken?
Chris
mainframetech
May 26, 2012, 8:50:29 AM5/26/12
to
> > statement and I see it is now deleted. Probably a scared dunce afraid
> > of what it will say. Here it is all over again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
>
> > And we DID land on the Moon...:)
>
> I`m amazed you could figure that out.
>
> > > > Look into the statement of Acquilla Clemmons of Dallas who
> > > > witnessed the aftermath of the Tippit shooting.
>
> > > Produce the statement she gave to the authorities.
>
> > Give it up fool. The 'authorities didn't want her statement in the
> > record, so they told her to shut up or get hurt. Do you think after
> > that they would then file an official report of the meeting ot her
> > statement? I don't think so. A witness statement is just as good as
> > sworn testimony when the commission is corrupt and selecting only
> > certain witnesses and evidence.
>
> Right, the FBI was canvassing the neighborhood threatening
> witnesses. Rest, idiot.
As a matter of fact, when you go through the many witnesses you get
> > of what it will say. Here it is all over again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
>
> > And we DID land on the Moon...:)
>
> I`m amazed you could figure that out.
>
> > > > Look into the statement of Acquilla Clemmons of Dallas who
> > > > witnessed the aftermath of the Tippit shooting.
>
> > > Produce the statement she gave to the authorities.
>
> > Give it up fool. The 'authorities didn't want her statement in the
> > record, so they told her to shut up or get hurt. Do you think after
> > that they would then file an official report of the meeting ot her
> > statement? I don't think so. A witness statement is just as good as
> > sworn testimony when the commission is corrupt and selecting only
> > certain witnesses and evidence.
>
> Right, the FBI was canvassing the neighborhood threatening
> witnesses. Rest, idiot.
a goodly number that spoke of FBI wanting changes in statements or
threatening people to shut up.
>
> > > > She stated clearly
> > > > that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
> > > > FBI)
>
> > > What FBI agents were at the Tippit murder scene?
>
> > Get off it. Their names weren't mentioned, and the woman didn't
> > remember.
>
> Why would you think she would be the only source of information if
> the FBI was on the scene? Media is there. Dallas cops are there. A
> multitude of people milling around.
So you decided that reporters and cameras were following the FBI
> > > > She stated clearly
> > > > that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
> > > > FBI)
>
> > > What FBI agents were at the Tippit murder scene?
>
> > Get off it. Their names weren't mentioned, and the woman didn't
> > remember.
>
> Why would you think she would be the only source of information if
> the FBI was on the scene? Media is there. Dallas cops are there. A
> multitude of people milling around.
around everywhere? If you watchedher statements, the FBI came asround
a couple days later to talk to her. She probably gaqve her name to
the cops after the original event.
>
> > > > told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
> > > > what she saw.
>
> > > Great, another fantastic story with no corroboration you will
> > > believe wholeheartedly because you have no critical thinking skills to
> > > call your own that will take you absolutely nowhere.
>
> > Stuff it smalltime. There are many corroborative statements about
> > the FBI shutting up witnesses or changing their statements,
>
> Do you have anything corroborating Clemmon`s story?
>
> > threatening them and losing or screwing up evidence that didn't agree
> > with the story told by the WC.
>
> Right, either there was a massive effort you can`t really show or
> Oswald was just guilty.
Nope. Won't do. There wasn't a 'massive effort' by anyone. A visit
> > > > told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
> > > > what she saw.
>
> > > Great, another fantastic story with no corroboration you will
> > > believe wholeheartedly because you have no critical thinking skills to
> > > call your own that will take you absolutely nowhere.
>
> > Stuff it smalltime. There are many corroborative statements about
> > the FBI shutting up witnesses or changing their statements,
>
> Do you have anything corroborating Clemmon`s story?
>
> > threatening them and losing or screwing up evidence that didn't agree
> > with the story told by the WC.
>
> Right, either there was a massive effort you can`t really show or
> Oswald was just guilty.
and a few words was all that was needed in this case with Clemmons.
Now, if you wanted to hear about FBI intimidation, here's a whole
article on Dealey Plaza FBI intimidation:
http://dealeyintimidation.tripod.com/index.htm
And if it weren't true that Clemmons was threatened by the FBI, that
wouldn't make LHO guilty of Tippit's murder. That's faulty logic.
Remember that the LHO lookalike was seen by a few different people
running away, just like Clemmons saw, and that may have drawn their
attention while the real shooter was reloading and walking away to his
car.
If you check the timing of Oswald's movements, he didn't have time
to get from his rooming house to the Tippit murder scene based on his
times and the time of the murder. And we also have the statement of
Warren Reynolds, who came out on the street after hearing the shots.
He had told the FBI he couldn't be sure of the identification of
Oswald, and 2 days later a lone gunman was waiting in the basement
where he worked and took a shot at him, hitting him in the head. He
survived the attempted murder and then his statement changed to where
he identified Oswald clearly with no doubt. Wonder what caused his
memory to clear up?
Domingo Benevides was one of the witnesses to the Tippit shooting
and said he got a good look at the killer. He wasn't asked to go to a
lineup, and he described the killer as different than Oswald. A
couple of weeks later his lookalike brother was shot and killed. When
their father looked into the killing because the DPD hadn't done much
of a job, he was shot at himself and a police lieutenant told him to
lay off looking into the killing of his son.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbenavides.htm
Helen Markham was one of the witnesses and she was a bit on the
wacky side. She said she talked with Tippit after he was shot for 20
minutes (impossible), then she described Oswald as heavy and with
bushy black hair (similar to the guy Clemmons saw).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBo3xeVANiI
So many of the Tippit witnesses don't agree with each other, and
aren't sure of what they saw, or were intimidated by FBI or even the
DPD. Hard to tell who did what to who in the Tippit affair.
>
> > > > She had told them she saw a short, heavy man reloading
> > > > his gun after shooting Tippit, and she also saw a different man
> > > > fitting LHO's description running away after the short, heavy man
> > > > waved him to go on.
>
> > > Reconcile that account with the accounts of the half dozen witnesses
> > > within 50 feet of the Tippit slaying.
>
> > Reconcile your hopes with the fact that the other witnesses might
> > have been intimidated by the FBI who no doubt spoke with each of
> > them.
>
> Your ideas always require the fantastic, why is that?
>
> Another idiot raised on TV...
Another idiot made into a believer in the WC and worshiping their
> Another idiot raised on TV...
every word...:)
>
> > As well, since Oswald (or someone that looked like him) was
> > running down the street he might have drawn more attention than a guy
> > standing quietly reloading his gun and walking to a car.
>
> You`re retarded.
Nope. You're brainwashed by the 'official' wacky WC theory.
> > As well, since Oswald (or someone that looked like him) was
> > running down the street he might have drawn more attention than a guy
> > standing quietly reloading his gun and walking to a car.
>
> You`re retarded.
>
> > > > After being warned by the FBI, she remained
> > > > silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
>
> > > Why should she be scared, she knew the threat never occurred.
>
> > That's on the ridiculous side, even for you. If they threatened you,
> > I expect you'd mess your pants.
>
> She wasn`t so scared as not to talk to Lane, was she?
A long, long time after. She probably thought there was no problem
> > > > After being warned by the FBI, she remained
> > > > silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
>
> > > Why should she be scared, she knew the threat never occurred.
>
> > That's on the ridiculous side, even for you. If they threatened you,
> > I expect you'd mess your pants.
>
> She wasn`t so scared as not to talk to Lane, was she?
by then, since the WC was over, as if that was a 'trial'.
>
> > And with all your talk of producing evidence or 'official'
> > statements, what do we do with Sergeant Hill of the DPD that looked
> > And with all your talk of producing evidence or 'official'
> > at a shell on the street from the killer's gun and declared the gun to
> > be an automatic?
>
> Show that he looked at the shell.
Show that he didn't before reporting it was an automatic. Was he
> > be an automatic?
>
> Show that he looked at the shell.
an idiot? Had he forgotten what an automatic shell looks like?
They're obvious by comparison to revolver ammo.
>
> Any idea where the shells would have been if Tippit was shot by an
> automatic, idiot?
Of course, fool. They would be nearby in a loose grouping, since
> Any idea where the shells would have been if Tippit was shot by an
> automatic, idiot?
the gun would have been held in the same position for each shot, the
shells would be ejected in approximately the same place.
Samantha Brown
May 26, 2012, 5:06:59 PM5/26/12
to
news:7d49e8c8-2f02-4c82...@n42g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Interesting.
Did you read my comments above? An ex-marine and a DPD
sergeant simply couldn't make a mistake of that kind.
Can you prove that assertion? Can you show that no former marine serving as
a polce officer has ever misidentified a shell casing? Until you can prove
that fact I'll continue to believe that the Officer made a mistake. He's
only human after all.
The person that
wrote the note (26) made an error...:) I take it you are also
familiar with the difference?
Absolutely. But you need to prove that no Police Officer who was once a
marine has EVER misidentified shell casing upon initial inspection. Until
you can establish that, then this is pure conjecture on your part.
If so, how do you suppose a careful
examination of a shell could be mistaken?
What makes you say that the examination was "careful". Can I have a cite for
that? Thanks. I think wherever humans are involved, mistakes get made. It's
not rocket science.
Chris
Did you read my comments above? An ex-marine and a DPD
sergeant simply couldn't make a mistake of that kind.
a polce officer has ever misidentified a shell casing? Until you can prove
that fact I'll continue to believe that the Officer made a mistake. He's
only human after all.
The person that
wrote the note (26) made an error...:) I take it you are also
familiar with the difference?
marine has EVER misidentified shell casing upon initial inspection. Until
you can establish that, then this is pure conjecture on your part.
If so, how do you suppose a careful
examination of a shell could be mistaken?
that? Thanks. I think wherever humans are involved, mistakes get made. It's
not rocket science.
Chris
Bud
May 26, 2012, 6:10:32 PM5/26/12
to
> > > > > She stated clearly
> > > > > that an authority well dressed and wearing a gun (later identified as
> > > > > FBI)
>
> > > > What FBI agents were at the Tippit murder scene?
>
> > > Get off it. Their names weren't mentioned, and the woman didn't
> > > remember.
>
> > Why would you think she would be the only source of information if
> > the FBI was on the scene? Media is there. Dallas cops are there. A
> > multitude of people milling around.
>
> So you decided that reporters and cameras were following the FBI
> around everywhere?
> If you watchedher statements, the FBI came asround
> a couple days later to talk to her. She probably gaqve her name to
> the cops after the original event.
>
>
>
> > > > > told her that she would 'get hurt' if she didn't shut up about
> > > > > what she saw.
>
> > > > Great, another fantastic story with no corroboration you will
> > > > believe wholeheartedly because you have no critical thinking skills to
> > > > call your own that will take you absolutely nowhere.
>
> > > Stuff it smalltime. There are many corroborative statements about
> > > the FBI shutting up witnesses or changing their statements,
>
> > Do you have anything corroborating Clemmon`s story?
>
> > > threatening them and losing or screwing up evidence that didn't agree
> > > with the story told by the WC.
>
> > Right, either there was a massive effort you can`t really show or
> > Oswald was just guilty.
>
> Nope. Won't do. There wasn't a 'massive effort' by anyone.
and over and over.
> A visit
> and a few words was all that was needed in this case with Clemmons.
effort.
And Clemmons shows that FBI couldn`t cover-up anything using such an
approach, which is why they wouldn`t even try.
> Now, if you wanted to hear about FBI intimidation, here's a whole
> article on Dealey Plaza FBI intimidation:http://dealeyintimidation.tripod.com/index.htm
>
> And if it weren't true that Clemmons was threatened by the FBI, that
> wouldn't make LHO guilty of Tippit's murder. That's faulty logic.
> Remember that the LHO lookalike was seen by a few different people
> running away, just like Clemmons saw, and that may have drawn their
> attention while the real shooter was reloading and walking away to his
> car.
> If you check the timing of Oswald's movements, he didn't have time
> to get from his rooming house to the Tippit murder scene based on his
> times and the time of the murder.
> And we also have the statement of
> Warren Reynolds, who came out on the street after hearing the shots.
> He had told the FBI he couldn't be sure of the identification of
> Oswald, and 2 days later a lone gunman was waiting in the basement
> where he worked and took a shot at him, hitting him in the head. He
> survived the attempted murder and then his statement changed to where
> he identified Oswald clearly with no doubt. Wonder what caused his
> memory to clear up?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/reynolds_w.htm
> Domingo Benevides was one of the witnesses to the Tippit shooting
> and said he got a good look at the killer. He wasn't asked to go to a
> lineup, and he described the killer as different than Oswald.
his testimony.
> A
> couple of weeks later his lookalike brother was shot and killed.
> When
> their father looked into the killing because the DPD hadn't done much
> of a job, he was shot at himself and a police lieutenant told him to
>
> Helen Markham was one of the witnesses and she was a bit on the
> wacky side. She said she talked with Tippit after he was shot for 20
> minutes (impossible), then she described Oswald as heavy and with
> bushy black hair (similar to the guy Clemmons saw).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBo3xeVANiI
She positively identified Oswald as the man she saw.
> Helen Markham was one of the witnesses and she was a bit on the
> wacky side. She said she talked with Tippit after he was shot for 20
> minutes (impossible), then she described Oswald as heavy and with
> bushy black hair (similar to the guy Clemmons saw).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBo3xeVANiI
> So many of the Tippit witnesses don't agree with each other, and
> aren't sure of what they saw, or were intimidated by FBI or even the
> DPD. Hard to tell who did what to who in the Tippit affair.
you can try and sneak your patsy through. Doesn`t work, way to much
evidence gainst him and your claims that everyone was out to get his
is weak and unsupported.
> > > > > She had told them she saw a short, heavy man reloading
> > > > > his gun after shooting Tippit, and she also saw a different man
> > > > > fitting LHO's description running away after the short, heavy man
> > > > > waved him to go on.
>
> > > > Reconcile that account with the accounts of the half dozen witnesses
> > > > within 50 feet of the Tippit slaying.
>
> > > Reconcile your hopes with the fact that the other witnesses might
> > > have been intimidated by the FBI who no doubt spoke with each of
> > > them.
>
> > Your ideas always require the fantastic, why is that?
>
> Nope. Check above.
>
>
>
> > Another idiot raised on TV...
>
> Another idiot made into a believer in the WC and worshiping their
> every word...:)
stupid idea only entertained by idiots.
> > > As well, since Oswald (or someone that looked like him) was
> > > running down the street he might have drawn more attention than a guy
> > > standing quietly reloading his gun and walking to a car.
>
> > You`re retarded.
>
> Nope. You're brainwashed by the 'official' wacky WC theory.
> > > > > After being warned by the FBI, she remained
> > > > > silent until an interview with Mark Lane much later.
>
> > > > Why should she be scared, she knew the threat never occurred.
>
> > > That's on the ridiculous side, even for you. If they threatened you,
> > > I expect you'd mess your pants.
>
> > She wasn`t so scared as not to talk to Lane, was she?
>
> A long, long time after. She probably thought there was no problem
> by then, since the WC was over, as if that was a 'trial'.
>
>
>
> > > And with all your talk of producing evidence or 'official'
> > > statements, what do we do with Sergeant Hill of the DPD that looked
> > > at a shell on the street from the killer's gun and declared the gun to
> > > be an automatic?
>
> > Show that he looked at the shell.
>
> Show that he didn't before reporting it was an automatic. Was he
> an idiot? Had he forgotten what an automatic shell looks like?
> They're obvious by comparison to revolver ammo.
Show that he looked at the shell.
> > Any idea where the shells would have been if Tippit was shot by an
> > automatic, idiot?
>
> Of course, fool. They would be nearby in a loose grouping, since
> the gun would have been held in the same position for each shot, the
> shells would be ejected in approximately the same place.
automatic?
mainframetech
May 26, 2012, 6:51:36 PM5/26/12
to
radio. Or at least le HIM handle it. He says he made a mistake.
Here's the video of him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRHGZQXRxM
He failed to say the same in the WC testimony.
There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
work.
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
Jean
May 26, 2012, 6:55:48 PM5/26/12
to jjdavi...@yahoo.com
On May 24, 11:16 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
> Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time now. (So too, Eddie
> "Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. Other LNT'ers are too
> smart to get close to this post.) First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps telling
> everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
>
> Toddy *asked* for this post. Now, he's too gutless to respond to it.
>
> All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
>
> ********************************
> Todd, just like other LNT'ers, refuse to see what is right before their eyes,
> and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't refute
> it.
>
> Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
>
> ********************************
> Since the FBI, as early as Saturday, was *telling* eyewitnesses that there were
> only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hear, it's
> amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
>
> Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
> Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
>
> And considering the number of people who've come forward to state that their
> affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing that as
> much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
********************************
You failed to show that the FBI told Edwards anything. By
> Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time now. (So too, Eddie
> "Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. Other LNT'ers are too
> smart to get close to this post.) First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps telling
> everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
>
> Toddy *asked* for this post. Now, he's too gutless to respond to it.
>
> All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
>
> ********************************
> Todd, just like other LNT'ers, refuse to see what is right before their eyes,
> and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't refute
> it.
>
> Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
>
> ********************************
> Since the FBI, as early as Saturday, was *telling* eyewitnesses that there were
> only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hear, it's
> amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
>
> Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
> Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
>
> And considering the number of people who've come forward to state that their
> affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing that as
> much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
********************************
the time he testified it was common knowledge that most witnesses said
"three shots."
>
> But Todd won't actually *respond* to this... so let's add some more accounts to
> the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
>
> Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
> Courthouse building. He testified:
>
> Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
> A: Yes, I did.
> Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
> MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
> BY MR. GARRISON:
> Q: Were you threatened in any way --
> THE COURT: I sustain the objection. You cannot tell us the words used by someone
> who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
> conversations with them and what did you do as a result of the conversation, I
> will permit that.
> BY MR. GARRISON:
> Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
> what did you do?
> A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
> Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
> A: No, sir.
>
> Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
> house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
> assassination and I said I did. They told me, 'If you didn't see Lee Harvey
> Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness it.'" I
> said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey Oswald
> was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.' And
> (one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me what I
> saw, he told me what I saw."
over. I'm surprised you don't know this.
>
> But perhaps Todd doesn't find anything strange about reports such as this.
> After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to the
> case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ... one
> that he won't address.
>
> Ed Hoffman, the deaf mute who belatedly came forward and claimed to have seen
> two men with a rifle behind the pickett fence on the grassy knoll, stated that
> he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
telling his story.
>
> Then we have an attorney, Carroll Jarnagin, who reported being an eyewitness to
> a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, FBI
> agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, tried
> accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
> "clearly abuse of a witness."
him at the Carousel and openly discussed having Oswald shoot Connally
from a Carousel window -- a long conversation that Jarnigan reported
verbatim. Jarnigan admitted he'd been drinking, and the woman he was
with, a stripper, agreed they were drinking and denied that she'd seen
or heard any such thing. No surprise if the FBI accused him of
hallucinating. His claim WAS investigated.
>
> Moving along to more august eyewitnesses, Senator Ralph Yarborough was shocked
> at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly not
> the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a couple
> of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure him to
> sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassination"
> and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding this up,"
> and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986, "...I
> typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars all
> stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the
> protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when a shot
> is fired."
story? Yarborough's affidavit shows that he was critical of the
Secret Service:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0224a.htm
>
> If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or respect
> those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. David
> Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd been
> "pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
> resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the WC would
> have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
> accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony was
> never put in the record.
QUOTE:
.... My first impression was that the shots came from the right and
overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared
to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may
have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the
overpass, that we might have ridden into an ambush......
UNQUOTE
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0240b.htm
You didn't show that the FBI got anyone to change his story
or keep his mouth shut, that I see.
> (Now is perhaps a good time to mention that Todd had no response to make when I
> mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just one of
> the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
> eyewitness to the murder, *a policeman* at that, was never questioned by anyone
> prior to the WCR being released?
>
> Nor can you argue that the WC was unaware of him - Anyone can view the Altgen's
> photo, and see him for themselves."
>
> Todd couldn't find the strength to respond to this... but perhaps this isn't
> covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0gcAQNunbM
Do you really think Kennedy was "shot in the face"? We
have Chaney's account. What difference does it make? (None.)
>
> Moving on... David Lifton reports Tomlinson's account, who history has recorded
> as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
> midnight, and being told to keep his mouth shut about what he'd found. Tomlinson
> noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
Another non-intimidated, talkative witness.
>
> Mark Lane records this statement of Jean Hill: "For two years I have told the
> truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teacher. My
> principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and I just
> can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know it's
> all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about it
> anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to continue to
> teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about the case
> anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us that
> there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
Hill's place of work, two years later? Really? And did Jean Hill
stay "intimidated"? Not hardly.
>
> In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation with
> O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fence
> behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "That's not
> what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right, I told
> the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and
> that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me
> to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family." But
> nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing ever
> happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
>
> While I'm sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
> eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
>
> Why... none at all.
>
> Congratulations, Todd!
>
> (By the way Jean, I need to locate a cite to a contemporary newspaper article
> that detailed how silent the eyewitnesses all got after a visit from the FBI, so
> I can add it to the list. Perhaps you already know about this article)
Jean
Ben Holmes
May 26, 2012, 7:28:20 PM5/26/12
to
In article <23d25deb-dcb7-4008...@t35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Jean says...
>
>On May 24, 11:16=A0pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>> Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time now. =A0(So too, =
>Eddie
>> "Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. =A0Other LNT'ers are=
> too
>> smart to get close to this post.) =A0First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps t=
>yes,
>> and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't=
>e were
>> only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hea=
>eir
>> affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing t=
>ey
>> Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness =
>it.'" I
>> said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey =
>Oswald
>> was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.'=
> And
>> (one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me w=
>.
>> After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to =
>the
>> case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ...=
>seen
>> two men with a rifle behind the pickett fence on the grassy knoll, stated=
>ess to
>> a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, =
>FBI
>> agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, t=
>ocked
>> at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly=
> not
>> the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a co=
>uple
>> of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure h=
>im to
>> sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassina=
>tion"
>> and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding thi=
>s up,"
>> and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986,=
> "...I
>> typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars =
>all
>> stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for =
>the
>> protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when =
>.htm
>
>>
>> If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or r=
>espect
>> those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. Dav=
>id
>> Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd bee=
>when I
>> mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just o=
> the
>> truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teache=
>r. My
>> principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and =
>I just
>> can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know =
>it's
>> all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about i=
>t
>> anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to contin=
>ue to
>> teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about t=
>he case
>> anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us th=
>with
>> O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fenc=
>e
>> behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "Tha=
>t's not
>> what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right,=
> I told
>> the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that wa=
>y and
>> that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wante=
>d me
>> to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the famil=
>y." But
>> nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing =
>icle
>> that detailed how silent the eyewitnesses all got after a visit from the =
Denial seems to be a game that the LNT'ers enjoy playing...
Jean says...
>
>On May 24, 11:16=A0pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>> Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time now. =A0(So too, =
>Eddie
>> "Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. =A0Other LNT'ers are=
> too
>> smart to get close to this post.) =A0First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps t=
>elling
>> everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
>>
>> Toddy *asked* for this post. =A0Now, he's too gutless to respond to it.
>> everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
>>
>>
>> All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
>>
>> ********************************
>> Todd, just like other LNT'ers, refuse to see what is right before their e=
>> All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
>>
>> ********************************
>yes,
>> and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't=
> refute
>> it.
>>
>> Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
>>
>> ********************************
>> Since the FBI, as early as Saturday, was *telling* eyewitnesses that ther=
>> it.
>>
>> Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
>>
>> ********************************
>e were
>> only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hea=
>r, it's
>> amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
>>
>> Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
>> Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
>>
>> And considering the number of people who've come forward to state that th=
>> amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
>>
>> Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
>> Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
>>
>eir
>> affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing t=
>hat as
>> much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
>
>********************************
>
> You failed to show that the FBI told Edwards anything. By
>the time he testified it was common knowledge that most witnesses said
>"three shots."
>
>>
>> But Todd won't actually *respond* to this... so let's add some more accou=
>> much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
>
>********************************
>
> You failed to show that the FBI told Edwards anything. By
>the time he testified it was common knowledge that most witnesses said
>"three shots."
>
>>
>nts to
>> the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
>>
>> Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
>> Courthouse building. He testified:
>>
>> Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
>> A: Yes, I did.
>> Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
>> MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>> Q: Were you threatened in any way --
>> THE COURT: I sustain the objection. You cannot tell us the words used by =
>> the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
>>
>> Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
>> Courthouse building. He testified:
>>
>> Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
>> A: Yes, I did.
>> Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
>> MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>> Q: Were you threatened in any way --
>someone
>> who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
>> conversations with them and what did you do as a result of the conversati=
>> who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
>on, I
>> will permit that.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>> Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investig=
>> will permit that.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>ation,
>> what did you do?
>> A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
>> Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
>> A: No, sir.
>
> But Carr didn't shut his mouth, did he?
>
>>
>> Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
>> house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
>> assassination and I said I did. They told me, 'If you didn't see Lee Harv=
>> what did you do?
>> A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
>> Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
>> A: No, sir.
>
> But Carr didn't shut his mouth, did he?
>
>>
>> Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
>> house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
>ey
>> Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness =
>it.'" I
>> said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey =
>Oswald
>> was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.'=
> And
>> (one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me w=
>hat I
>> saw, he told me what I saw."
>
> Carr is not a credible witness and that's been shown many times
>over. I'm surprised you don't know this.
>
>>
>> But perhaps Todd doesn't find anything strange about reports such as this=
>> saw, he told me what I saw."
>
> Carr is not a credible witness and that's been shown many times
>over. I'm surprised you don't know this.
>
>>
>.
>> After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to =
>the
>> case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ...=
> one
>> that he won't address.
>>
>> Ed Hoffman, the deaf mute who belatedly came forward and claimed to have =
>> that he won't address.
>>
>seen
>> two men with a rifle behind the pickett fence on the grassy knoll, stated=
> that
>> he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
>
> If you want to believe that, go ahead. Hoffman also kept
>telling his story.
>
>>
>> Then we have an attorney, Carroll Jarnagin, who reported being an eyewitn=
>> he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
>
> If you want to believe that, go ahead. Hoffman also kept
>telling his story.
>
>>
>ess to
>> a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, =
>FBI
>> agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, t=
>ried
>> accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
>> "clearly abuse of a witness."
>
> Jarnigan claimed that Ruby and LHO sat at a table next to
>him at the Carousel and openly discussed having Oswald shoot Connally
>from a Carousel window -- a long conversation that Jarnigan reported
>verbatim. Jarnigan admitted he'd been drinking, and the woman he was
>with, a stripper, agreed they were drinking and denied that she'd seen
>or heard any such thing. No surprise if the FBI accused him of
>hallucinating. His claim WAS investigated.
>
>>
>> Moving along to more august eyewitnesses, Senator Ralph Yarborough was sh=
>> accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
>> "clearly abuse of a witness."
>
> Jarnigan claimed that Ruby and LHO sat at a table next to
>him at the Carousel and openly discussed having Oswald shoot Connally
>from a Carousel window -- a long conversation that Jarnigan reported
>verbatim. Jarnigan admitted he'd been drinking, and the woman he was
>with, a stripper, agreed they were drinking and denied that she'd seen
>or heard any such thing. No surprise if the FBI accused him of
>hallucinating. His claim WAS investigated.
>
>>
>ocked
>> at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly=
> not
>> the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a co=
>uple
>> of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure h=
>im to
>> sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassina=
>tion"
>> and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding thi=
>s up,"
>> and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986,=
> "...I
>> typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars =
>all
>> stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for =
>the
>> protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when =
>a shot
>> is fired."
>
> Does Yarborough sound intimidated to you? Did he change his
>story? Yarborough's affidavit shows that he was critical of the
>Secret Service:
>
>http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0224a=
>> is fired."
>
> Does Yarborough sound intimidated to you? Did he change his
>story? Yarborough's affidavit shows that he was critical of the
>Secret Service:
>
>.htm
>
>>
>> If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or r=
>espect
>> those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. Dav=
>id
>> Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd bee=
>n
>> "pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
>> resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the W=
>> "pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
>C would
>> have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
>> accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony=
>> have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
> was
>> never put in the record.
>
> Powers' statement is in volume VII:
>
>QUOTE:
>
>.... My first impression was that the shots came from the right and
>overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared
>to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may
>have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the
>overpass, that we might have ridden into an ambush......
>
>UNQUOTE
>
>http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0240b=
>> never put in the record.
>
> Powers' statement is in volume VII:
>
>QUOTE:
>
>.... My first impression was that the shots came from the right and
>overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared
>to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may
>have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the
>overpass, that we might have ridden into an ambush......
>
>UNQUOTE
>
>.htm
>
> You didn't show that the FBI got anyone to change his story
>or keep his mouth shut, that I see.
>
>
>> (Now is perhaps a good time to mention that Todd had no response to make =
>
> You didn't show that the FBI got anyone to change his story
>or keep his mouth shut, that I see.
>
>
>when I
>> mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just o=
>ne of
>> the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
>> eyewitness to the murder, *a policeman* at that, was never questioned by =
>> the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
>anyone
>> prior to the WCR being released?
>>
>> Nor can you argue that the WC was unaware of him - Anyone can view the Al=
>> prior to the WCR being released?
>>
>tgen's
>> photo, and see him for themselves."
>>
>> Todd couldn't find the strength to respond to this... but perhaps this is=
>> photo, and see him for themselves."
>>
>n't
>> covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
>
> Officer Chaney is on Youtube::
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dx0gcAQNunbM
>> covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
>
> Officer Chaney is on Youtube::
>
>
> Do you really think Kennedy was "shot in the face"? We
>have Chaney's account. What difference does it make? (None.)
>
>>
>> Moving on... David Lifton reports Tomlinson's account, who history has re=
> Do you really think Kennedy was "shot in the face"? We
>have Chaney's account. What difference does it make? (None.)
>
>>
>corded
>> as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
>> midnight, and being told to keep his mouth shut about what he'd found. To=
>> as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
>mlinson
>> noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
>
> Yes, and Tomlinson gave numerous interviews after this.
>Another non-intimidated, talkative witness.
>
>>
>> Mark Lane records this statement of Jean Hill: "For two years I have told=
>> noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
>
> Yes, and Tomlinson gave numerous interviews after this.
>Another non-intimidated, talkative witness.
>
>>
> the
>> truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teache=
>r. My
>> principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and =
>I just
>> can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know =
>it's
>> all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about i=
>t
>> anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to contin=
>ue to
>> teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about t=
>he case
>> anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us th=
>at
>> there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
>
> Do you actually believe that the FBI kept coming to Jean
>Hill's place of work, two years later? Really? And did Jean Hill
>stay "intimidated"? Not hardly.
>
>>
>> In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation =
>> there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
>
> Do you actually believe that the FBI kept coming to Jean
>Hill's place of work, two years later? Really? And did Jean Hill
>stay "intimidated"? Not hardly.
>
>>
>with
>> O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fenc=
>e
>> behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "Tha=
>t's not
>> what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right,=
> I told
>> the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that wa=
>y and
>> that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wante=
>d me
>> to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the famil=
>y." But
>> nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing =
>ever
>> happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
>
> Hearsay. Quote O'Donnell or Powers directly.
>
>>
>> While I'm sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
>> eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
>>
>> Why... none at all.
>>
>> Congratulations, Todd!
>>
>> (By the way Jean, I need to locate a cite to a contemporary newspaper art=
>> happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
>
> Hearsay. Quote O'Donnell or Powers directly.
>
>>
>> While I'm sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
>> eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
>>
>> Why... none at all.
>>
>> Congratulations, Todd!
>>
>icle
>> that detailed how silent the eyewitnesses all got after a visit from the =
>FBI, so
>> I can add it to the list. Perhaps you already know about this article)
>
> Sorry, no.
>
> Jean
Doesn't matter... you'd deny it like all the rest.
>> I can add it to the list. Perhaps you already know about this article)
>
> Sorry, no.
>
> Jean
Denial seems to be a game that the LNT'ers enjoy playing...
Ben Holmes
May 26, 2012, 7:48:35 PM5/26/12
to
>On May 24, 11:16=A0pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>> Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time now. =A0(So too, =
>Eddie
>> "Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. =A0Other LNT'ers are=
> too
>> smart to get close to this post.) =A0First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps t=
>yes,
>> and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't=
>e were
>> only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hea=
>eir
>> affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing t=
>ey
>> Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness =
>it.'" I
>> said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey =
>Oswald
>> was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.'=
> And
>> (one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me w=
>.
>> After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to =
>the
>> case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ...=
>seen
>> two men with a rifle behind the pickett fence on the grassy knoll, stated=
>ess to
>> a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, =
>FBI
>> agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, t=
>ocked
>> at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly=
> not
>> the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a co=
>uple
>> of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure h=
>im to
>> sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassina=
>tion"
>> and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding thi=
>s up,"
>> and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986,=
> "...I
>> typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars =
>all
>> stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for =
>the
>> protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when =
>.htm
>
>>
>> If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or r=
>espect
>> those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. Dav=
>id
>> Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd bee=
>when I
>> mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just o=
> the
>> truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teache=
>r. My
>> principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and =
>I just
>> can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know =
>it's
>> all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about i=
>t
>> anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to contin=
>ue to
>> teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about t=
>he case
>> anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us th=
>with
>> O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fenc=
>e
>> behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "Tha=
>t's not
>> what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right,=
> I told
>> the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that wa=
>y and
>> that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wante=
>d me
>> to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the famil=
>y." But
>> nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing =
>icle
>> that detailed how silent the eyewitnesses all got after a visit from the =
refused to give further help after being interviewed by agents of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation." - New York Times, 6 Dec 63.
Interestingly, I ran across another one: Fred Powledge, reporting from Dallas,
said in the NYT (12/10/1963) that the operator of the Irving rifle range, Mr.
Davis, "said Mr. Slack and the other customers did not notify the [FBI] until it
became known that investigators were looking for sites where Oswald might have
practiced...Mr. Price declined to answer further questions because he said the
FBI had asked him not to talk."
Tell us Jean, who's the defendant here? Usually when you ask people to stay
quiet, you're doing so to ensure a just trial for someone.
Under what reasoning was the FBI "asking" people to be quiet about what they
knew?
>> Toddy's been running from this post for quite some time now. =A0(So too, =
>Eddie
>> "Disgrace to the Corps" Dolan, and Chuckie Schuyler. =A0Other LNT'ers are=
> too
>> smart to get close to this post.) =A0First posted in 2005 - Toddy keeps t=
>elling
>> everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
>>
>> Toddy *asked* for this post. =A0Now, he's too gutless to respond to it.
>> everyone that he'll answer it when he 'gets around to it'.
>>
>>
>> All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
>>
>> ********************************
>> Todd, just like other LNT'ers, refuse to see what is right before their e=
>> All you ever need to shut up the LNT'ers is the evidence...
>>
>> ********************************
>yes,
>> and refuse to attempt to explain it when it becomes clear that they can't=
> refute
>> it.
>>
>> Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
>>
>> ********************************
>> Since the FBI, as early as Saturday, was *telling* eyewitnesses that ther=
>> it.
>>
>> Todd didn't like it very much when I asserted:
>>
>> ********************************
>e were
>> only three shots, coaching eyewitnesses to say what the FBI wanted to hea=
>r, it's
>> amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
>>
>> Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
>> Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
>>
>> And considering the number of people who've come forward to state that th=
>> amazing that we have as many accounts as we do that there were more.
>>
>> Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear, if you remember?
>> Mr. EDWARDS. Well, I heard one more than was fired, I believe.
>>
>eir
>> affidavits and even *testimony* was changed, again, it's simply amazing t=
>hat as
>> much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
>
>********************************
>
> You failed to show that the FBI told Edwards anything. By
>the time he testified it was common knowledge that most witnesses said
>"three shots."
>
>>
>> But Todd won't actually *respond* to this... so let's add some more accou=
>> much evidence as we have is still left in the record.
>
>********************************
>
> You failed to show that the FBI told Edwards anything. By
>the time he testified it was common knowledge that most witnesses said
>"three shots."
>
>>
>nts to
>> the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
>>
>> Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
>> Courthouse building. He testified:
>>
>> Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
>> A: Yes, I did.
>> Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
>> MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>> Q: Were you threatened in any way --
>> THE COURT: I sustain the objection. You cannot tell us the words used by =
>> the fire. That way, Todd can ignore even *more* accounts:
>>
>> Richard Randolf Carr was a steelworker watching the motorcade from the
>> Courthouse building. He testified:
>>
>> Q: Mr. Carr, did you talk to any FBI agents about this incident?
>> A: Yes, I did.
>> Q: Did they tell you to forget about it?
>> MR. DYMOND: I object to that as hearsay.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>> Q: Were you threatened in any way --
>someone
>> who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
>> conversations with them and what did you do as a result of the conversati=
>> who spoke to you because of hearsay; however, you can state that you had
>on, I
>> will permit that.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>> Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investig=
>> will permit that.
>> BY MR. GARRISON:
>ation,
>> what did you do?
>> A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
>> Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
>> A: No, sir.
>
> But Carr didn't shut his mouth, did he?
>
>>
>> Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
>> house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
>> assassination and I said I did. They told me, 'If you didn't see Lee Harv=
>> what did you do?
>> A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
>> Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
>> A: No, sir.
>
> But Carr didn't shut his mouth, did he?
>
>>
>> Carr told researchers Gary Shaw and Larry Harris: "The FBI came to my
>> house-there were two of them-and they said they heard I witnessed the
>ey
>> Oswald up in the School Book Depository with a rifle, you didn't witness =
>it.'" I
>> said, 'Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is Lee Harvey =
>Oswald
>> was not in the window of the School Book Depository. That's not the man.'=
> And
>> (one of the agents) said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me w=
>hat I
>> saw, he told me what I saw."
>
> Carr is not a credible witness and that's been shown many times
>over. I'm surprised you don't know this.
>
>>
>> But perhaps Todd doesn't find anything strange about reports such as this=
>> saw, he told me what I saw."
>
> Carr is not a credible witness and that's been shown many times
>over. I'm surprised you don't know this.
>
>>
>.
>> After all, he's questioned eyewitnesses himself, and has the solution to =
>the
>> case. Yet explaining why eyewitnesses were threatened poses a problem ...=
> one
>> that he won't address.
>>
>> Ed Hoffman, the deaf mute who belatedly came forward and claimed to have =
>> that he won't address.
>>
>seen
>> two men with a rifle behind the pickett fence on the grassy knoll, stated=
> that
>> he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
>
> If you want to believe that, go ahead. Hoffman also kept
>telling his story.
>
>>
>> Then we have an attorney, Carroll Jarnagin, who reported being an eyewitn=
>> he'd been warned by an FBI agent to keep quiet "or you might get killed."
>
> If you want to believe that, go ahead. Hoffman also kept
>telling his story.
>
>>
>ess to
>> a meeting between LHO and Ruby. According to an interview he gave Marrs, =
>FBI
>> agents, instead of investigating his potentially explosive revelations, t=
>ried
>> accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
>> "clearly abuse of a witness."
>
> Jarnigan claimed that Ruby and LHO sat at a table next to
>him at the Carousel and openly discussed having Oswald shoot Connally
>from a Carousel window -- a long conversation that Jarnigan reported
>verbatim. Jarnigan admitted he'd been drinking, and the woman he was
>with, a stripper, agreed they were drinking and denied that she'd seen
>or heard any such thing. No surprise if the FBI accused him of
>hallucinating. His claim WAS investigated.
>
>>
>> Moving along to more august eyewitnesses, Senator Ralph Yarborough was sh=
>> accusing him of hallucinating. Jarnagin asserted that their conduct was
>> "clearly abuse of a witness."
>
> Jarnigan claimed that Ruby and LHO sat at a table next to
>him at the Carousel and openly discussed having Oswald shoot Connally
>from a Carousel window -- a long conversation that Jarnigan reported
>verbatim. Jarnigan admitted he'd been drinking, and the woman he was
>with, a stripper, agreed they were drinking and denied that she'd seen
>or heard any such thing. No surprise if the FBI accused him of
>hallucinating. His claim WAS investigated.
>
>>
>ocked
>> at the treatment he received from the Warren Commission staff (admittedly=
> not
>> the FBI, but related). He stated that they "walked in like they were a co=
>uple
>> of deputy sheriffs and and I was a bank robber." They tried to pressure h=
>im to
>> sign a statement that closed with "This is all I know about the assassina=
>tion"
>> and when he refused, they kept pressuring him, saying "you're holding thi=
>s up,"
>> and demanded he sign the statement. As Yarborough told Jim Marrs in 1986,=
> "...I
>> typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars =
>all
>> stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for =
>the
>> protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when =
>a shot
>> is fired."
>
> Does Yarborough sound intimidated to you? Did he change his
>story? Yarborough's affidavit shows that he was critical of the
>Secret Service:
>
>http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0224a=
>> is fired."
>
> Does Yarborough sound intimidated to you? Did he change his
>story? Yarborough's affidavit shows that he was critical of the
>Secret Service:
>
>.htm
>
>>
>> If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or r=
>espect
>> those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. Dav=
>id
>> Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd bee=
>n
>> "pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
>> resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the W=
>> "pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
>C would
>> have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
>> accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony=
>> have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
> was
>> never put in the record.
>
> Powers' statement is in volume VII:
>
>QUOTE:
>
>.... My first impression was that the shots came from the right and
>overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared
>to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may
>have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the
>overpass, that we might have ridden into an ambush......
>
>UNQUOTE
>
>http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0240b=
>> never put in the record.
>
> Powers' statement is in volume VII:
>
>QUOTE:
>
>.... My first impression was that the shots came from the right and
>overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared
>to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may
>have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the
>overpass, that we might have ridden into an ambush......
>
>UNQUOTE
>
>.htm
>
> You didn't show that the FBI got anyone to change his story
>or keep his mouth shut, that I see.
>
>
>> (Now is perhaps a good time to mention that Todd had no response to make =
>
> You didn't show that the FBI got anyone to change his story
>or keep his mouth shut, that I see.
>
>
>when I
>> mentioned an example of the tremendous coverup going on, that: "As just o=
>ne of
>> the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
>> eyewitness to the murder, *a policeman* at that, was never questioned by =
>> the simple examples, care to defend the fact that the *closest* non-limo
>anyone
>> prior to the WCR being released?
>>
>> Nor can you argue that the WC was unaware of him - Anyone can view the Al=
>> prior to the WCR being released?
>>
>tgen's
>> photo, and see him for themselves."
>>
>> Todd couldn't find the strength to respond to this... but perhaps this is=
>> photo, and see him for themselves."
>>
>n't
>> covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
>
> Officer Chaney is on Youtube::
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dx0gcAQNunbM
>> covered in the "Lone Nutter's Handbook".
>
> Officer Chaney is on Youtube::
>
>
> Do you really think Kennedy was "shot in the face"? We
>have Chaney's account. What difference does it make? (None.)
>
>>
>> Moving on... David Lifton reports Tomlinson's account, who history has re=
> Do you really think Kennedy was "shot in the face"? We
>have Chaney's account. What difference does it make? (None.)
>
>>
>corded
>> as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
>> midnight, and being told to keep his mouth shut about what he'd found. To=
>> as the finder of CE 399, and who was called by the FBI that night - after
>mlinson
>> noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
>
> Yes, and Tomlinson gave numerous interviews after this.
>Another non-intimidated, talkative witness.
>
>>
>> Mark Lane records this statement of Jean Hill: "For two years I have told=
>> noted that "And they have a way to make a believer out of you".
>
> Yes, and Tomlinson gave numerous interviews after this.
>Another non-intimidated, talkative witness.
>
>>
> the
>> truth, but I have two children to support and I am a public school teache=
>r. My
>> principal said it would be best not to talk about the assassination, and =
>I just
>> can't go through it all again. I can't believe the Warren Report. I know =
>it's
>> all a lie, because I was there when it happened, but I can't talk about i=
>t
>> anymore because I don't want the FBI here constantly and I want to contin=
>ue to
>> teach here. I hope you don't think I'm a coward but I cannot talk about t=
>he case
>> anymore." But noooo... we must listen to Todd, he carefully coaches us th=
>at
>> there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
>
> Do you actually believe that the FBI kept coming to Jean
>Hill's place of work, two years later? Really? And did Jean Hill
>stay "intimidated"? Not hardly.
>
>>
>> In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation =
>> there has not been any FBI intimidation in this case.
>
> Do you actually believe that the FBI kept coming to Jean
>Hill's place of work, two years later? Really? And did Jean Hill
>stay "intimidated"? Not hardly.
>
>>
>with
>> O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fenc=
>e
>> behind the grassy knoll. (As does Powers) O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "Tha=
>t's not
>> what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right,=
> I told
>> the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that wa=
>y and
>> that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wante=
>d me
>> to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the famil=
>y." But
>> nooooo... we must listen to Todd... who will tell you that no such thing =
>ever
>> happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
>
> Hearsay. Quote O'Donnell or Powers directly.
>
>>
>> While I'm sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
>> eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
>>
>> Why... none at all.
>>
>> Congratulations, Todd!
>>
>> (By the way Jean, I need to locate a cite to a contemporary newspaper art=
>> happened. (or, more accurately, will simply refuse to respond.)
>
> Hearsay. Quote O'Donnell or Powers directly.
>
>>
>> While I'm sure that this is an incomplete list, when we have a record of
>> eyewitness intimidation such as this - what explanation does Todd offer?
>>
>> Why... none at all.
>>
>> Congratulations, Todd!
>>
>icle
>> that detailed how silent the eyewitnesses all got after a visit from the =
>FBI, so
>> I can add it to the list. Perhaps you already know about this article)
>
> Sorry, no.
>
> Jean
"Most private citizens who had cooperated with newsmen reporting the crime have
>> I can add it to the list. Perhaps you already know about this article)
>
> Sorry, no.
>
> Jean
refused to give further help after being interviewed by agents of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation." - New York Times, 6 Dec 63.
Interestingly, I ran across another one: Fred Powledge, reporting from Dallas,
said in the NYT (12/10/1963) that the operator of the Irving rifle range, Mr.
Davis, "said Mr. Slack and the other customers did not notify the [FBI] until it
became known that investigators were looking for sites where Oswald might have
practiced...Mr. Price declined to answer further questions because he said the
FBI had asked him not to talk."
Tell us Jean, who's the defendant here? Usually when you ask people to stay
quiet, you're doing so to ensure a just trial for someone.
Under what reasoning was the FBI "asking" people to be quiet about what they
knew?
Samantha Brown
May 26, 2012, 8:16:00 PM5/26/12
to
news:7a72be30-2ee0-4c17...@n42g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Oh, you're using a Gil Jesus video as a source? Gil Jesus has zero
credibility. Sorry. He cobbles together pieces of television programs
deliberately to bolster his kook theories. He's a nut. One of his wacky
ideas is that JFK coughed up a bullet during the assassination. I can't give
any credence to anything he puts forward.
There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
work.
There are many factoids contained in that last paragraph, I'd hazard aguess
that 90% of your research to date has been reading conspiracy sites or
books. My advice would be to achieve more balance. So much of that stuff has
either been debunked or disproved already.
credibility. Sorry. He cobbles together pieces of television programs
deliberately to bolster his kook theories. He's a nut. One of his wacky
ideas is that JFK coughed up a bullet during the assassination. I can't give
any credence to anything he puts forward.
There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
work.
that 90% of your research to date has been reading conspiracy sites or
books. My advice would be to achieve more balance. So much of that stuff has
either been debunked or disproved already.
Samantha Brown
May 26, 2012, 8:27:49 PM5/26/12
to
"Ben Holmes" <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote in message
news:jprq4...@drn.newsguy.com...
Do you think that law enforcement generally like all the details of a crime
to be in the public domain? Did any of these "private citizens" mentioned in
this article report intimidation or threats? If so which ones? Can you
provide a link to this article? I'd like to see the context of your quote. I
don't trust you.
>
> Interestingly, I ran across another one: Fred Powledge, reporting from
> Dallas,
> said in the NYT (12/10/1963) that the operator of the Irving rifle range,
> Mr.
> Davis, "said Mr. Slack and the other customers did not notify the [FBI]
> until it
> became known that investigators were looking for sites where Oswald might
> have
> practiced...Mr. Price declined to answer further questions because he said
> the
> FBI had asked him not to talk."
>
>
> Tell us Jean, who's the defendant here? Usually when you ask people to
> stay
> quiet, you're doing so to ensure a just trial for someone.
>
>
> Under what reasoning was the FBI "asking" people to be quiet about what
> they
> knew?
Bud
May 26, 2012, 8:44:56 PM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 7:48 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
> In article <23d25deb-dcb7-4008-88ae-9aea71112...@t35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> >http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7...
What did they know that needed keeping quiet?
> In article <23d25deb-dcb7-4008-88ae-9aea71112...@t35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> >.htm
>
> >> If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or r=
> >espect
> >> those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. Dav=
> >id
> >> Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd bee=
> >n
> >> "pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
> >> resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the W=
> >C would
> >> have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
> >> accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony=
> > was
> >> never put in the record.
>
> > Powers' statement is in volume VII:
>
> >QUOTE:
>
> >.... My first impression was that the shots came from the right and
> >overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared
> >to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may
> >have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the
> >overpass, that we might have ridden into an ambush......
>
> >UNQUOTE
>
> >http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7...
>
> >> If a United States Senator can be treated this way, imagine the lack or r=
> >espect
> >> those "investigating" the assassination accorded the average citizen. Dav=
> >id
> >> Powers, as I previously mentioned, was another who asserted that he'd bee=
> >n
> >> "pressured" to lie to the Warren Commission. Interestingly, he must have
> >> resisted quite well, since his deposition is certainly not one that the W=
> >C would
> >> have welcomed. Perhaps this is why he was never questioned... or more
> >> accurately - when he *WAS* questioned by Arlen Spector, why his testimony=
> > was
> >> never put in the record.
>
> > Powers' statement is in volume VII:
>
> >QUOTE:
>
> >.... My first impression was that the shots came from the right and
> >overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared
> >to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass. This may
> >have resulted from my feeling, when I looked forward toward the
> >overpass, that we might have ridden into an ambush......
>
> >UNQUOTE
>
Samantha Brown
May 26, 2012, 9:14:17 PM5/26/12
to
"Samantha Brown" <samjb...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ayewr.7326$v14....@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
wielding this particular quote on other forums, including Amazon. I still
like to see a link to the article itself. I doubt that Ben has actually read
it, he's just purloined it from various conspiracy websites. He never gives
a correct cite. Just a vague reference to the date and publication. Title?
Writer? Page #?
Samantha Brown
May 26, 2012, 9:28:26 PM5/26/12
to
news:Jdfwr.7329$v14....@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
If you click on this link you'll even find the drug addled parrot defending
Holmes usual bullishness and nonsense here too.
http://www.amazon.com/killed-Does-matter-King-plays/forum/FxC0K02YNBGLY9/Tx11UCTRFA3ON8I/8?asin=1451627289
There ain't no mountain high for Crackpipe and Chubs.
Holmes usual bullishness and nonsense here too.
http://www.amazon.com/killed-Does-matter-King-plays/forum/FxC0K02YNBGLY9/Tx11UCTRFA3ON8I/8?asin=1451627289
There ain't no mountain high for Crackpipe and Chubs.
aeffects
May 26, 2012, 9:21:32 PM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 6:14 pm, "Samantha Brown" <samjbrow...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> "Samantha Brown" <samjbrow...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>
snip
sitdown stinko, adults at work here....
> "Samantha Brown" <samjbrow...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>
snip
sitdown stinko, adults at work here....
Samantha Brown
May 26, 2012, 9:51:04 PM5/26/12
to
"aeffects" <aeffe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:75a3680d-b2fd-406b...@ri8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
aeffects
May 27, 2012, 1:21:41 AM5/27/12
to
On May 26, 6:51 pm, "Samantha Brown" <samjbrow...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> "aeffects" <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote in message
you betch'ya red ryder.... your stink preceeds ya!
> "aeffects" <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Samantha Brown
May 27, 2012, 2:22:22 AM5/27/12
to
news:6c2f133c-5274-493f...@tx6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
Hmmmm and your trail leaves a stench that will never leave you. You reek of
humilition and shame.You're a pathetic, snivelling little arse licker whose
most interesting achievement in life is having once been a drug addict.
Congratulations, how proud you must be Weasel. Now why don't you be a good
enema and crawl back up Chubby's ample backside? There's a good crack fiend
:)
humilition and shame.You're a pathetic, snivelling little arse licker whose
most interesting achievement in life is having once been a drug addict.
Congratulations, how proud you must be Weasel. Now why don't you be a good
enema and crawl back up Chubby's ample backside? There's a good crack fiend
:)
mainframetech
May 27, 2012, 8:15:45 AM5/27/12
to
information. You can watch Hill answer the question about the shells
and his mistake, and then you can check his testimony from the WC
(which I did) and they don't agree. Tell me, what part of the video
was fudged?
>
> There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
> many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
> shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
> identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
> the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
> were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
> his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
> the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
> good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
> work.
>
> There are many factoids contained in that last paragraph, I'd hazard aguess
> that 90% of your research to date has been reading conspiracy sites or
> books. My advice would be to achieve more balance. So much of that stuff has
> either been debunked or disproved already.
Nope. Won't do. The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
> many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
> shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
> identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
> the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
> were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
> his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
> the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
> good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
> work.
>
> There are many factoids contained in that last paragraph, I'd hazard aguess
> that 90% of your research to date has been reading conspiracy sites or
> books. My advice would be to achieve more balance. So much of that stuff has
> either been debunked or disproved already.
the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
oath. It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
idol's theories.
On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
about the Rambler. Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
Washington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRHGZQXRxM
Samantha Brown
May 27, 2012, 4:25:06 PM5/27/12
to
news:83b0eaf2-fe41-4428...@t35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
*****
As I said earlier. it's a Gil Jesus Video. Google him. He has zero
credibility. Nope. Won't do :)
*******
>
> There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
> many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
> shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
> identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
> the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
> were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
> his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
> the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
> good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
> work.
>
> There are many factoids contained in that last paragraph, I'd hazard
> aguess
> that 90% of your research to date has been reading conspiracy sites or
> books. My advice would be to achieve more balance. So much of that stuff
> has
> either been debunked or disproved already.
Nope. Won't do.
****
Thats ok. You're entitled to your opinion.
******
The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
*******
Ah but that's the situation you find yourself in, not me. I accept the
Warren Commsions findings, so I can rely on a preponderance of the evidence.
You as a CTer need the peripheral stuff desperately. Sadly, in almost 50
years not one of those conspiracy theories has led to the conviction of
anyone in the murder of JFK. Thats why you need to back up with citations
each of your assertions as to it's meaning and context. Unfortunately using
a fellow hobbyist's video as a citation won't do. Nope won't do :).
***********
That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
oath.
*****
LOL. That's daft and you know it.
********
It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
idol's theories.
****
We'll agree to disagree on which side has the wacky theories :)
*******
On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
******
I agree that there is literally nothing I could present to you that would
make you rethink your stance. I don't need to play anything down. I believe
that many of these people are lying. Your problem is that you HAVE to play
these people up. Like your friend Rishel for example. You MUST add undue
weight to hearsay to bolster your argument. I can rely on Bowers own
testimony. I hope you can see the difference.
**********
I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
about the Rambler.
*******
Google is your friend.
**********
Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
Washington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRHGZQXRxM
******
Another Gil Jesus video? Tsk Tsk.
***********
As I said earlier. it's a Gil Jesus Video. Google him. He has zero
credibility. Nope. Won't do :)
*******
>
> There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
> many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
> shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
> identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
> the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
> were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
> his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
> the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
> good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
> work.
>
> There are many factoids contained in that last paragraph, I'd hazard
> aguess
> that 90% of your research to date has been reading conspiracy sites or
> books. My advice would be to achieve more balance. So much of that stuff
> has
> either been debunked or disproved already.
Nope. Won't do.
Thats ok. You're entitled to your opinion.
******
The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
Ah but that's the situation you find yourself in, not me. I accept the
Warren Commsions findings, so I can rely on a preponderance of the evidence.
You as a CTer need the peripheral stuff desperately. Sadly, in almost 50
years not one of those conspiracy theories has led to the conviction of
anyone in the murder of JFK. Thats why you need to back up with citations
each of your assertions as to it's meaning and context. Unfortunately using
a fellow hobbyist's video as a citation won't do. Nope won't do :).
***********
That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
oath.
LOL. That's daft and you know it.
********
It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
idol's theories.
We'll agree to disagree on which side has the wacky theories :)
*******
On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
I agree that there is literally nothing I could present to you that would
make you rethink your stance. I don't need to play anything down. I believe
that many of these people are lying. Your problem is that you HAVE to play
these people up. Like your friend Rishel for example. You MUST add undue
weight to hearsay to bolster your argument. I can rely on Bowers own
testimony. I hope you can see the difference.
**********
I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
about the Rambler.
Google is your friend.
**********
Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
Washington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRHGZQXRxM
Another Gil Jesus video? Tsk Tsk.
***********
Bud
May 27, 2012, 5:11:28 PM5/27/12
to
idiot.
> The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
> fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
> with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
> That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
> oath. It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
> its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
> to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
> back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
> idol's theories.
that day, seen shooting and owner of the murder weapon might be
guilty.
> On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
account.
> I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> about the Rambler.
out of hand.
Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
one of the threads...
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
> Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> Washington.
mainframetech
May 27, 2012, 6:12:54 PM5/27/12
to
statement, or is this just your opinion? I do know his views are in
opposition to yours...:)
> > There seems also to be some confusion with the empty shells and how
> > many were found and marked by police. It was said that many of the
> > shells were marked by E. Poe a DPD oficer. But later he couldn't
> > identify the ones he marked. As well, when Oswald was apprehended in
> > the movie theatre, they heard a click from his revolver while they
> > were hassling with him, and later when they examined the bullets in
> > his gun they found at least one of the primer caps had been dented by
> > the hammer as if there was an attempt to fire it, and it failed. Not
> > good for Oswald to be walking around with a revolver that doesn't
> > work.
>
> > There are many factoids contained in that last paragraph, I'd hazard
> > aguess
> > that 90% of your research to date has been reading conspiracy sites or
> > books. My advice would be to achieve more balance. So much of that stuff
> > has
> > either been debunked or disproved already.
>
> Nope. Won't do.
>
> ****
> Thats ok. You're entitled to your opinion.
our kind of conversation. They've proved nothing.
> ******
>
> The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
> fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
> with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
>
> *******
> Ah but that's the situation you find yourself in, not me. I accept the
> Warren Commsions findings, so I can rely on a preponderance of the evidence.
along with selection and intimidation of witnesses. So not much
honest information there available to you either, plus having to stand
the slings and arows of the large contingency of non-WC-faithful...:)
> You as a CTer need the peripheral stuff desperately.
this particular issue. And 'CT' doesn't apply. That suggesst
'theory' which I'm not into. I like evidence and logic and common
sense, which the wacky WC theories don't seem to have. True that the
WC made themselves the 'mainline' of the discussion, by getting to the
wire first as Hoover wanted, but all they offer is how NOT to do an
investigation, proved by the many times they had to repeat their
effort as people became more and more disenchanted with the 'official'
line of bull.
> Sadly, in almost 50
> years not one of those conspiracy theories has led to the conviction of
> anyone in the murder of JFK. Thats why you need to back up with citations
> each of your assertions as to it's meaning and context. Unfortunately using
> a fellow hobbyist's video as a citation won't do. Nope won't do :).
> ***********
have not led to any convictions either. And wouldn't have if LHO had
survived. The sheer fumbling incompetence (intentional?) of the FBI
and those that handled evidence and statements of witnesses ruined any
ability of the 'officials' to actually prosecute anyone. Most
evidence would have been left out of a trial for not following the
chain of custody and the rules of evidence. The body was stolen and
the limo was stolen against Texas law, and were handled in such a way
as to make them invalid as evidential elements. This includes
evidence for the JFK murder, and even the Tippit murder. One thing
with a video is that it is much harder to manipulate them than fixed
picture images, and I'm sure that Gil Jesus would have something to
say about your charges of invalidity. However, the video I linked to
actually HELPS your point, so why your complaining is beyond me.
And while we're on the subject of the FBI failing to do its job
properly, here's an FBI agent that says the same thing, though I don't
agree with his belief as to who the guilty party is:
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
>
> That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
> oath.
>
> *****
> LOL. That's daft and you know it.
> ********
> It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
> its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
> to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
> back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
> idol's theories.
>
> ****
> We'll agree to disagree on which side has the wacky theories :)
> *******
lot of makeup put on it to cover it up.
>
> On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> ******
> I agree that there is literally nothing I could present to you that would
> make you rethink your stance. I don't need to play anything down. I believe
> that many of these people are lying. Your problem is that you HAVE to play
> these people up. Like your friend Rishel for example. You MUST add undue
> weight to hearsay to bolster your argument. I can rely on Bowers own
> testimony. I hope you can see the difference.
The difference I see is that I'm not hearing 'hearsay' because I'm
> On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> ******
> I agree that there is literally nothing I could present to you that would
> make you rethink your stance. I don't need to play anything down. I believe
> that many of these people are lying. Your problem is that you HAVE to play
> these people up. Like your friend Rishel for example. You MUST add undue
> weight to hearsay to bolster your argument. I can rely on Bowers own
> testimony. I hope you can see the difference.
not in court, and I'm not pretending to be. Rishel wrote no book, and
as far as I know he made no money from his statements, and even may
have put himself in harm's way by speaking out. As if a jury, I may
make certain decisions about the veracity of a witness, but I will
also consider the motives of those making statements, and those
wanting to discredit the statements. Does Bugliosi want to sell a
book? I include that in my estimation of his statements, and when I
catch him lying about the throat wound, I consider that in his other
statements. I'm not limited by court rules, but if we all were, there
would be no case against Oswald for all the mishandling of evidence
and witnesses.
And while we're on the thread of FBI messing with things, here's an
FBI agent that thinks the FBI messed up intentionally on the JFK case:
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
> **********
>
> I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> about the Rambler.
>
> *******
> Google is your friend.
and hope I'll find something for you? Naah. If you can't back up
your statements, then you didn't really make them. It didn't happen,
meaning that there is nothing to discredit the statements of Richard
Carr and Roger Craig, who corroborated each other's evidence. Thank
you. If need be, I can provide links to their statements and
testimony for both of them.
> **********
>
> Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> Washington.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRHGZQXRxM
>
> ******
> Another Gil Jesus video? Tsk Tsk.
Prove that the video is incorrect. If a dollar came from the Mafia,
>
> Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> Washington.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjRHGZQXRxM
>
> ******
> Another Gil Jesus video? Tsk Tsk.
doesn't mean it can't be spent on a legitimate purchase. You can
show problems with the Zapruder film, so show it here, don't try to
discredit something by your personal statement. That has no weight.
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
Intimidation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
7. FBI agent - Saying FBI did wrong on JFK case
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
Intimidation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
Chris
mainframetech
May 27, 2012, 6:30:51 PM5/27/12
to
>
> > The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> > the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
> > fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
> > with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
> > That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
> > oath. It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
> > its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
> > to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
> > back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
> > idol's theories.
>
> Yah, "wacky" to think the man who carried a long package into work
> that day, seen shooting and owner of the murder weapon might be
> guilty.
Sorry. For all you know, the package really had curtain rods in
> > The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> > the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
> > fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
> > with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
> > That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
> > oath. It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
> > its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
> > to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
> > back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
> > idol's theories.
>
> Yah, "wacky" to think the man who carried a long package into work
> that day, seen shooting and owner of the murder weapon might be
> guilty.
it. If it was a rifle, even a bolt action Mauser, it wouldn't look
like curtain rods.
>
> > On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> > public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> > telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> > to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> > comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> > it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> The only thing you need is the ability to critically assess each
> account.
Thanks! That's what I did...:)
> > On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> > public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> > telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> > to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> > comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> > it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> The only thing you need is the ability to critically assess each
> account.
>
> > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > about the Rambler.
>
> If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> out of hand.
>
> Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> one of the threads...
>
> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > Washington.
>
> Carr changed his story every time he told it.
After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > Washington.
>
> Carr changed his story every time he told it.
but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
Chris
Bud
May 27, 2012, 7:18:02 PM5/27/12
to
> > > The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> > > the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
> > > fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
> > > with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
> > > That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
> > > oath. It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
> > > its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
> > > to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
> > > back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
> > > idol's theories.
>
> > Yah, "wacky" to think the man who carried a long package into work
> > that day, seen shooting and owner of the murder weapon might be
> > guilty.
>
> Sorry. For all you know, the package really had curtain rods in
> it.
> If it was a rifle, even a bolt action Mauser, it wouldn't look
> like curtain rods.
> > > On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> > > public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> > > telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> > > to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> > > comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> > > it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> > The only thing you need is the ability to critically assess each
> > account.
>
> Thanks! That's what I did...:)
"thinking" stuff to those better suited.
> > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > about the Rambler.
>
> > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > out of hand.
>
> > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > one of the threads...
>
> > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
> > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > Washington.
>
> > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
> Intimidationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
>
Samantha Brown
May 27, 2012, 7:57:58 PM5/27/12
to
news:23e93129-55c6-4355...@x39g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
I'm quite sure that you are "ready to go on forever" but what you don't seem
to realise is that you are not bringing anything new to the table. All you
insist on regurgitating are the same tired old videos and the same old lame
brained theories that have been debunked many moons ago.A simple google
search would clarify most of these myths for you but you'd rather stick to
your fantasy. Like I said, doesn't really matter.
to realise is that you are not bringing anything new to the table. All you
insist on regurgitating are the same tired old videos and the same old lame
brained theories that have been debunked many moons ago.A simple google
search would clarify most of these myths for you but you'd rather stick to
your fantasy. Like I said, doesn't really matter.
mainframetech
May 28, 2012, 6:56:10 AM5/28/12
to
>
> > > > The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> > > > the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
> > > > fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
> > > > with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
> > > > That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
> > > > oath. It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
> > > > its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
> > > > to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
> > > > back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
> > > > idol's theories.
>
> > > Yah, "wacky" to think the man who carried a long package into work
> > > that day, seen shooting and owner of the murder weapon might be
> > > guilty.
>
> > Sorry. For all you know, the package really had curtain rods in
> > it.
>
> You should be sorry if you think that is true.
I don't think anything. We'll never know what was in the
> > > > The FBI and the WC worked hard to make sure that
> > > > the evidence and testimony they used in their report was sanitized and
> > > > fit only the wacky WC theory of the murders. So that leaves us mostly
> > > > with all peripheral evidence or statements or whatever can be dug up.
> > > > That kind of information is the same as sworn testimony without the
> > > > oath. It would have become sworn testimony if the WC were going about
> > > > its job honestly. As well, we have the many WC sycophantic adherents
> > > > to the wacky WC view of the world constantly trying to get toothpaste
> > > > back in the tube whanever they hear something that doesn't match their
> > > > idol's theories.
>
> > > Yah, "wacky" to think the man who carried a long package into work
> > > that day, seen shooting and owner of the murder weapon might be
> > > guilty.
>
> > Sorry. For all you know, the package really had curtain rods in
> > it.
>
> You should be sorry if you think that is true.
package.
>
> > If it was a rifle, even a bolt action Mauser, it wouldn't look
> > like curtain rods.
>
> Didn`t act like curtain rods either.
Well, how do packages of curtain rods act? You have a clue on
> > If it was a rifle, even a bolt action Mauser, it wouldn't look
> > like curtain rods.
>
> Didn`t act like curtain rods either.
that? :)
>
> > > > On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> > > > public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> > > > telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> > > > to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> > > > comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> > > > it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> > > The only thing you need is the ability to critically assess each
> > > account.
>
> > Thanks! That's what I did...:)
>
> To the best of your ability. Which is why you should leave this
> "thinking" stuff to those better suited.
Together, we can accomplish that...:)
> > > > On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> > > > public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> > > > telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> > > > to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> > > > comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> > > > it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> > > The only thing you need is the ability to critically assess each
> > > account.
>
> > Thanks! That's what I did...:)
>
> To the best of your ability. Which is why you should leave this
> "thinking" stuff to those better suited.
>
> > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > out of hand.
>
> > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > one of the threads...
>
> > > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> By showing he lied about everything?
Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
> > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > out of hand.
>
> > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > one of the threads...
>
> > > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> By showing he lied about everything?
Certainly from the beginning.
>
> > > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > > Washington.
>
> > > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> > After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
>
> Probably not, even though I showed you where it was done.
Hmm. Ya got that one past me...where did you show anything of the
> > > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > > Washington.
>
> > > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> > After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
>
> Probably not, even though I showed you where it was done.
kind?
>
> > For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> > statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> > murder:
>
> "happenings"?
You mean that you have no clue what that means after hanging
> > For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> > statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> > murder:
>
> "happenings"?
around this forum this long?
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
Intimidation
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
Intimidation
mainframetech
May 28, 2012, 7:10:00 AM5/28/12
to
> I'm quite sure that you are "ready to go on forever" but what you don't seem
> to realise is that you are not bringing anything new to the table. All you
> insist on regurgitating are the same tired old videos and the same old lame
> brained theories that have been debunked many moons ago.A simple google
> search would clarify most of these myths for you but you'd rather stick to
> your fantasy. Like I said, doesn't really matter.
I'm sure it doesn't matter to you due to your style of handling a
> to realise is that you are not bringing anything new to the table. All you
> insist on regurgitating are the same tired old videos and the same old lame
> brained theories that have been debunked many moons ago.A simple google
> search would clarify most of these myths for you but you'd rather stick to
> your fantasy. Like I said, doesn't really matter.
serious subject. But everyone here is entitled to do it 'their way'.
I've heard that old saw from the WC sycophants about it all being
debunked before, and those that I've looked into show few that were
wrong, and many that stood up to the phony efforts to discredit them.
And since there are so many 'outlyers' that exist, the people will
continue to disbelieve the 'official' wacko story. An example is the
revolver that LHO carried. They heard a click from it in the movie
theatre and thought he might have pulled the trigger on an empty
chamber. Later thay found the bun fully loasws with one cartridge
with the primer cap dented in from the hammer. The gun failed to
fire. Was the gun abd, or the ammunition? Either way, would his
revolver have fired at Tippit in the street?
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
Hudson, Wilfred Baetz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
5. Sam Holland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
Intimidation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
7. FBI agent - Saying FBI did wrong *NEW*
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
Chris
Bud
May 28, 2012, 8:28:21 AM5/28/12
to
> We'll never know what was in the
> package.
> > > If it was a rifle, even a bolt action Mauser, it wouldn't look
> > > like curtain rods.
>
> > Didn`t act like curtain rods either.
>
> Well, how do packages of curtain rods act?
use them to shoot people.
> You have a clue on
> that? :)
> > > > > On top of the intentional limiting of evidence available to the
> > > > > public, you then had the FBI going around threatening witnesses and
> > > > > telling them what testimony they should speak of, or telling some not
> > > > > to say anything. You can try and play that down, but the concern
> > > > > comes from too many people. It won't work to say they all imagined
> > > > > it, or faked it or any such effort at discrediting them.
>
> > > > The only thing you need is the ability to critically assess each
> > > > account.
>
> > > Thanks! That's what I did...:)
>
> > To the best of your ability. Which is why you should leave this
> > "thinking" stuff to those better suited.
>
> Together, we can accomplish that...:)
> > > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > > out of hand.
>
> > > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > > one of the threads...
>
> > > > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > By showing he lied about everything?
>
> Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
> Certainly from the beginning.
Yah, in the beginning most of the conspiracy retards were clinging
to Carr`s account because it contained information they were loathe to
abandon. But Duke Lane kept hammering them with the facts (in other
threads also). That Carr couldn`t even see the areas of the TSBD he
claimed to have seen activity from where he said he was. That he
drastically changed his account every time he told it. That he put a
different color Nash Rambler in a different place than Craig did. That
he lied under oath about his military service.
> > > > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > > > Washington.
>
> > > > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> > > After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > > but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
>
> > Probably not, even though I showed you where it was done.
>
> Hmm. Ya got that one past me...where did you show anything of the
> kind?
>
>
> > > For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> > > statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> > > murder:
>
> > "happenings"?
>
> You mean that you have no clue what that means after hanging
> around this forum this long?
happen?
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) sw different killer and FBI
> Intimidationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
>
mainframetech
May 28, 2012, 6:27:05 PM5/28/12
to
>
> > > > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > > > out of hand.
>
> > > > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > > > one of the threads...
>
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > > > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > > > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > > By showing he lied about everything?
>
> > Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
>
> None of the known facts support Carr.
>
> > Certainly from the beginning.
>
> Yah, in the beginning most of the conspiracy retards were clinging
> to Carr`s account because it contained information they were loathe to
> abandon. But Duke Lane kept hammering them with the facts (in other
> threads also). That Carr couldn`t even see the areas of the TSBD he
> claimed to have seen activity from where he said he was. That he
> drastically changed his account every time he told it. That he put a
> different color Nash Rambler in a different place than Craig did. That
> he lied under oath about his military service.
>
Something here doesn't make sense. I checked 2 differnet versions
> > > > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > > > out of hand.
>
> > > > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > > > one of the threads...
>
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > > > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > > > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > > By showing he lied about everything?
>
> > Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
>
> None of the known facts support Carr.
>
> > Certainly from the beginning.
>
> Yah, in the beginning most of the conspiracy retards were clinging
> to Carr`s account because it contained information they were loathe to
> abandon. But Duke Lane kept hammering them with the facts (in other
> threads also). That Carr couldn`t even see the areas of the TSBD he
> claimed to have seen activity from where he said he was. That he
> drastically changed his account every time he told it. That he put a
> different color Nash Rambler in a different place than Craig did. That
> he lied under oath about his military service.
>
of Carrr's statement, one from the Shaw trial and one from his
statementr to the FBI. They seem to match in all the main
particulars, with only a few minor differences, which memory error
could happen to any witness. If you know of any other version, let me
know and I'll check that one out too. Looks like I should have
checked up on you long ago. No tellign what you would say. And if
you're going to find a version reported bty McAdams, forget it. I've
been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
> > > > > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > > > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > > > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > > > > Washington.
>
> > > > > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> > > > After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > > > but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
>
> > > Probably not, even though I showed you where it was done.
>
> > Hmm. Ya got that one past me...where did you show anything of the
> > kind?
>
> Where I linked to.
>
> > > > For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> > > > statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> > > > murder:
>
> > > "happenings"?
>
> > You mean that you have no clue what that means after hanging
> > around this forum this long?
>
> "happenings" implies they saw something happen. What did they see
> happen?
were doing and seeing and hearing? No wonder you're a WC minion! You
haven't seen the real world after all this time!
*** #7 is new
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) saw different killer and FBI
Intimidation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
7. FBI agent - Saying FBI did bad investigation
http://tinyurl.com/6lnwuqc
Chris
Bud
May 28, 2012, 7:32:24 PM5/28/12
to
Commission. You say things like...
"I like evidence and logic and common sense, which the wacky WC
theories don't seem to have."
within 25 feet of Oswald as he ran from the scene after killing
Tippit. They are known to have been there, they gave same day
accounts, they mention one another being there. Many identified Oswald
as the man they saw. You claim they were "gotten to" by the FBI, a
fantastic tale you can`t begin to support and try to trump them all
with a "witness" you can`t even show saw the murder.
Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
How about the witness who said it was Oswald he saw *before* he was
shot you claimed changed his story?
How about Benavide`s brother, have you found out how his death could
bot possibly be related to the Benavides seeing Tippit killed?
As long as you keep purposely clinging to nonsense you will never
figure these simple crimes out.
have to take you by the hand and present them to you.. Heres more
threads where Duke demolishes Carr...
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13910&hl=%2Brichard+%2Bcarr
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13910
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13705
He breaks down his statements, showing the discrepancies. He checks
the lines of sight from where he said he was to the places he said he
saw things occur. It`s hard to imagine how he could be discredited as
a witness any more, but you`ll still cling to him because he said
things you like the sound of.
> No tellign what you would say. And if
> you're going to find a version reported bty McAdams, forget it. I've
> been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
> as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
right direction.
> > > > > > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > > > > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > > > > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > > > > > Washington.
>
> > > > > > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> > > > > After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > > > > but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
>
> > > > Probably not, even though I showed you where it was done.
>
> > > Hmm. Ya got that one past me...where did you show anything of the
> > > kind?
>
> > Where I linked to.
>
> > > > > For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> > > > > statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> > > > > murder:
>
> > > > "happenings"?
>
> > > You mean that you have no clue what that means after hanging
> > > around this forum this long?
>
> > "happenings" implies they saw something happen. What did they see
> > happen?
>
> You actually mean to say you have no clue what folks near the GK
> were doing and seeing and hearing?
> No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> *** #7 is new
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) saw different killer and FBI
> Intimidationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
tom...@cox.net
May 28, 2012, 8:45:39 PM5/28/12
to
--
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Samantha Brown
May 28, 2012, 9:08:04 PM5/28/12
to
<tom...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:20120528204539.065$m...@newsreader.com...
"Toen Car" Toothless? Is that where Ellen services her tricks?
mainframetech
May 29, 2012, 9:10:09 AM5/29/12
to
showing your religion over them...:)
>
> "I like evidence and logic and common sense, which the wacky WC
> theories don't seem to have."
>
> What does that look like in practice? A half dozen people were
> within 25 feet of Oswald as he ran from the scene after killing
> Tippit. They are known to have been there, they gave same day
> accounts, they mention one another being there. Many identified Oswald
> as the man they saw. You claim they were "gotten to" by the FBI, a
> fantastic tale you can`t begin to support and try to trump them all
> with a "witness" you can`t even show saw the murder.
>
Whoops! I think you went off the edge there! 6 people were within
> "I like evidence and logic and common sense, which the wacky WC
> theories don't seem to have."
>
> What does that look like in practice? A half dozen people were
> within 25 feet of Oswald as he ran from the scene after killing
> Tippit. They are known to have been there, they gave same day
> accounts, they mention one another being there. Many identified Oswald
> as the man they saw. You claim they were "gotten to" by the FBI, a
> fantastic tale you can`t begin to support and try to trump them all
> with a "witness" you can`t even show saw the murder.
>
25 feet? You're right out of your mind. Or you can back that up, but
I don't think you can. Some of those people saw a different shooter
of Tippit (I'm assuming that's the murder you're speaking of), and
some were wacky, like Helen Markham. Who, incidentally testified that
the shooter was short, heavy, and with bushy hair, which agreed more
with Acquiline Clemmons who wasn't questioned by the WC. Of course,
she had something to say that disagreed with their faulty theory, so
they wouldn't want to talk to her. Domingo Benavides told the cops he
didn't thinkhe could identify the shooter in a lineup. Some of the
other witnesses also saw a person similar to LHO running away, but
that doesn't say that person was the shooter. Only that he was in the
area. Clemmons gave her statement that there were 2 men there and one
was the shooter and he was waving the other (looked like LHO) to go
on, he would take care of things at the Tippit murder site. The LHO
type ran away, and could have been seen by some of the other witnesses
who might focus on the guy running away. Of course, the FBI madee it
clear what story they wanted to hear and they were busy changing
folks' testimony or shutting them up.
Another eyewitness was Warren Reynolds who said the shooter didn't
look like Oswald. After someone took a shot at him, he decided the
shooter looked JUST like LHO. Can't count on that witness.
Another item is that the lineups at the DPD were also made such that
Oswald stood out like a sore thumb.
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/28th_issue/id_draft.html
An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
carried, so that was out.
>
Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
shells...:)
> How about the witness who said it was Oswald he saw *before* he was
> shot you claimed changed his story?
>
> How about Benavide`s brother, have you found out how his death could
> bot possibly be related to the Benavides seeing Tippit killed?
Well, one possibility is that since they looked alike, someone
> How about Benavide`s brother, have you found out how his death could
> bot possibly be related to the Benavides seeing Tippit killed?
mistook the brother for Benavides and shot him.
>
> As long as you keep purposely clinging to nonsense you will never
> figure these simple crimes out.
>
> > > > > > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > > > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > > > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > > > > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > > > > > out of hand.
>
> > > > > > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > > > > > one of the threads...
>
> > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > > > > > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > > > > > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > > > > By showing he lied about everything?
>
> > > > Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
>
> > > None of the known facts support Carr.
>
> > > > Certainly from the beginning.
>
> > > Yah, in the beginning most of the conspiracy retards were clinging
> > > to Carr`s account because it contained information they were loathe to
> > > abandon. But Duke Lane kept hammering them with the facts (in other
> > > threads also). That Carr couldn`t even see the areas of the TSBD he
> > > claimed to have seen activity from where he said he was. That he
> > > drastically changed his account every time he told it. That he put a
> > > different color Nash Rambler in a different place than Craig did. That
> > > he lied under oath about his military service.
>
> > Something here doesn't make sense. I checked 2 different versions
> As long as you keep purposely clinging to nonsense you will never
> figure these simple crimes out.
>
> > > > > > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > > > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > > > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > > > > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > > > > > out of hand.
>
> > > > > > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > > > > > one of the threads...
>
> > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > > > > > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > > > > > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > > > > By showing he lied about everything?
>
> > > > Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
>
> > > None of the known facts support Carr.
>
> > > > Certainly from the beginning.
>
> > > Yah, in the beginning most of the conspiracy retards were clinging
> > > to Carr`s account because it contained information they were loathe to
> > > abandon. But Duke Lane kept hammering them with the facts (in other
> > > threads also). That Carr couldn`t even see the areas of the TSBD he
> > > claimed to have seen activity from where he said he was. That he
> > > drastically changed his account every time he told it. That he put a
> > > different color Nash Rambler in a different place than Craig did. That
> > > he lied under oath about his military service.
>
> > of Carrr's statement, one from the Shaw trial and one from his
> > statementr to the FBI. They seem to match in all the main
> > particulars, with only a few minor differences, which memory error
> > could happen to any witness. If you know of any other version, let me
> > know and I'll check that one out too. Looks like I should have
> > checked up on you long ago.
>
> I told you where to look. I said in other threads also, but now I
> have to take you by the hand and present them to you.. Heres more
> threads where Duke demolishes Carr...
>
> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13910&hl=%2Bric...
> > statementr to the FBI. They seem to match in all the main
> > particulars, with only a few minor differences, which memory error
> > could happen to any witness. If you know of any other version, let me
> > know and I'll check that one out too. Looks like I should have
> > checked up on you long ago.
>
> I told you where to look. I said in other threads also, but now I
> have to take you by the hand and present them to you.. Heres more
> threads where Duke demolishes Carr...
>
>
> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13910
>
> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13705
>
> He breaks down his statements, showing the discrepancies. He checks
> the lines of sight from where he said he was to the places he said he
> saw things occur. It`s hard to imagine how he could be discredited as
> a witness any more, but you`ll still cling to him because he said
> things you like the sound of.
Nope. Won't do. This 'Duke Lane' is the only guy your quoting for
> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13910
>
> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13705
>
> He breaks down his statements, showing the discrepancies. He checks
> the lines of sight from where he said he was to the places he said he
> saw things occur. It`s hard to imagine how he could be discredited as
> a witness any more, but you`ll still cling to him because he said
> things you like the sound of.
the 3 possiblities you list. And as it turns out, the first 2 are the
exact same item, so we're down to 2 items, both from 'Duke Lane'. Now
going through his thoughts that he seems to have put in a comment on
that blog on your 3rd link, he has agreed that Carr could see the
TSBD, though it would be difficult. Here's his exact words:
"So, in light of this, I'd have to say that it's not impossible
that Carr saw what he said he saw, but qualify that by saying that it
was only possible from a very small section of the building."
Further I used Google Earth and found that Carr could see the doings
at Dealey Plaza too.
As well, Lane tries to step on Carr's war experience, but based on
what he dug up, if the stenographer made a mistake and recorded
'fifth' instead of 'fourth', then Carr's statement about the Rangers
would be absolutely correct based on Lane's information.
>
> > No telling what you would say. And if
> > you're going to find a version reported bty McAdams, forget it. I've
> > been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
> > as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
>
> If everything goes in one direction maybe it`s because that is the
> right direction.
>
You would only think that if you were set up to believe the story
> > been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
> > as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
>
> If everything goes in one direction maybe it`s because that is the
> right direction.
>
they got written down first. The only smart thing the WC did was to
get their story in first, which was Hoover's intention.
> > > > > > > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > > > > > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > > > > > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > > > > > > Washington.
>
> > > > > > > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> > > > > > After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > > > > > but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
>
> > > > > Probably not, even though I showed you where it was done.
>
> > > > Hmm. Ya got that one past me...where did you show anything of the
> > > > kind?
>
> > > Where I linked to.
>
> > > > > > For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> > > > > > statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> > > > > > murder:
>
> > > > > "happenings"?
>
> > > > You mean that you have no clue what that means after hanging
> > > > around this forum this long?
>
> > > "happenings" implies they saw something happen. What did they see
> > > happen?
>
> > You actually mean to say you have no clue what folks near the GK
> > were doing and seeing and hearing?
>
> I don`t know of anything significant they saw happen. Fill me in.
stockade fence and saw a plume of smoke come out at about 8-10 feet
above the ground. There were many that saw people there, some with
identificvation that said they qwere federal authorities (a DPD
officer saw that), some people saw a guy with a gun. Why, you just
have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw and heard...:)
> No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > *** #7 is new
>
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
Bud
May 29, 2012, 11:13:19 AM5/29/12
to
myths and factoids. If you don`t know which way Oswald ran, where the
people were when he ran past them and which of the witnesses made
positive identifications of Oswald then this can only be a case of
willful ignorance. Who am I to try to enlighten someone who prefers
ignorance?
> Some of those people saw a different shooter
> of Tippit (I'm assuming that's the murder you're speaking of), and
> some were wacky, like Helen Markham. Who, incidentally testified that
> the shooter was short, heavy, and with bushy hair, which agreed more
> with Acquiline Clemmons who wasn't questioned by the WC. Of course,
> she had something to say that disagreed with their faulty theory, so
> they wouldn't want to talk to her. Domingo Benavides told the cops he
> didn't thinkhe could identify the shooter in a lineup. Some of the
> other witnesses also saw a person similar to LHO running away, but
> that doesn't say that person was the shooter. Only that he was in the
> area. Clemmons gave her statement that there were 2 men there and one
> was the shooter and he was waving the other (looked like LHO) to go
> on, he would take care of things at the Tippit murder site. The LHO
> type ran away, and could have been seen by some of the other witnesses
> who might focus on the guy running away. Of course, the FBI madee it
> clear what story they wanted to hear and they were busy changing
> folks' testimony or shutting them up.
>
> Another eyewitness was Warren Reynolds who said the shooter didn't
> look like Oswald. After someone took a shot at him, he decided the
> shooter looked JUST like LHO. Can't count on that witness.
that it wasn`t Oswald he saw.
> Another item is that the lineups at the DPD were also made such that
> Oswald stood out like a sore thumb.http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/28th_issue/id_draft.html
that goes against their silly ideas.
But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
> An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> carried, so that was out.
> Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if> Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> shells...:)
information that goes against your silly ideas.
> > How about the witness who said it was Oswald he saw *before* he was
> > shot you claimed changed his story?
>
> Now I don't know what you're talking about. Give more information.
> > How about Benavide`s brother, have you found out how his death could
> > bot possibly be related to the Benavides seeing Tippit killed?
>
> Well, one possibility is that since they looked alike, someone
> mistook the brother for Benavides and shot him.
Lincoln. Instead of listing possibilities maybe you should offer
something that indicates Eddy was killed because he looked like
Domingo Benavides.
And Eddy Benavides was killed in 1965, after his brother Domingo
testified.
are too stupid to understand what you have read.
> > > No telling what you would say. And if
> > > you're going to find a version reported bty McAdams, forget it. I've
> > > been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
> > > as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
>
> > If everything goes in one direction maybe it`s because that is the
> > right direction.
>
> You would only think that if you were set up to believe the story
> they got written down first. The only smart thing the WC did was to
> get their story in first, which was Hoover's intention.
(like the people who saw the shooter at the two murder scenes said he
was).
> > > > > > > > > Also shots from the GK. Carr complained of FBI
> > > > > > > > > involvement trying to change his statement, and Craig stated that the
> > > > > > > > > WC lawyer (Belin) changed his statement 14 times before it got to
> > > > > > > > > Washington.
>
> > > > > > > > Carr changed his story every time he told it.
>
> > > > > > > After having his life threatened I could see that he might do that,
> > > > > > > but I haven't seen it happen in the substantial facts.
>
> > > > > > Probably not, even though I showed you where it was done.
>
> > > > > Hmm. Ya got that one past me...where did you show anything of the
> > > > > kind?
>
> > > > Where I linked to.
>
> > > > > > > For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> > > > > > > statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> > > > > > > murder:
>
> > > > > > "happenings"?
>
> > > > > You mean that you have no clue what that means after hanging
> > > > > around this forum this long?
>
> > > > "happenings" implies they saw something happen. What did they see
> > > > happen?
>
> > > You actually mean to say you have no clue what folks near the GK
> > > were doing and seeing and hearing?
>
> > I don`t know of anything significant they saw happen. Fill me in.
>
> Welp, a whole bunch of people heard shots from the area of the
> stockade fence
> and saw a plume of smoke come out at about 8-10 feet
> above the ground.
> There were many that saw people there, some with
> identificvation that said they qwere federal authorities (a DPD
> officer saw that),
> some people saw a guy with a gun.
all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
> Why, you just
> have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw and heard...:)
>
> > No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > > *** #7 is new
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) saw different killer and FBI
> Intimidationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
mainframetech
May 30, 2012, 8:54:24 AM5/30/12
to
Oswald might have passed as he ran away from the scene of the Tippit
murder. OK, now I see. They could have been down the road, or nearby
the scene.
> > Some of those people saw a different shooter
> > of Tippit (I'm assuming that's the murder you're speaking of), and
> > some were wacky, like Helen Markham. Who, incidentally testified that
> > the shooter was short, heavy, and with bushy hair, which agreed more
> > with Acquiline Clemmons who wasn't questioned by the WC. Of course,
> > she had something to say that disagreed with their faulty theory, so
> > they wouldn't want to talk to her. Domingo Benavides told the cops he
> > didn't thinkhe could identify the shooter in a lineup. Some of the
> > other witnesses also saw a person similar to LHO running away, but
> > that doesn't say that person was the shooter. Only that he was in the
> > area. Clemmons gave her statement that there were 2 men there and one
> > was the shooter and he was waving the other (looked like LHO) to go
> > on, he would take care of things at the Tippit murder site. The LHO
> > type ran away, and could have been seen by some of the other witnesses
> > who might focus on the guy running away. Of course, the FBI madee it
> > clear what story they wanted to hear and they were busy changing
> > folks' testimony or shutting them up.
>
> > Another eyewitness was Warren Reynolds who said the shooter didn't
> > look like Oswald. After someone took a shot at him, he decided the
> > shooter looked JUST like LHO. Can't count on that witness.
>
> You`re lying. You can`t show that Reynolds ever expressed the idea
> that it wasn`t Oswald he saw.
"Warren Reynolds did not see the shooting but saw the gunman running
from the scene of the crime. He claimed that the man was not Oswald.
After he survived an attempt to kill him, he changed his mind and
identified Oswald as the man he had seen."
From: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKStippet.htm
And Reynolds on video later. He looks nervous answering. I wonder
why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
>
> > Another item is that the lineups at the DPD were also made such that
> > Oswald stood out like a sore thumb.
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/28th_issue/id_draft.html
>
> Conspiracy retards will think up an reason to disregard information
> that goes against their silly ideas.
theories less and less possible or senseless.
>
> But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
> corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
Corroboration that a guy was running with a gun...Hmm...doesn't say
> But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
> corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
he killed anyone with the gun. The gun that Oswald had later
misfired, so was it even able to fire earlier? We'll never know. Bad
ammo? Bad firing pin?
>
> > An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> > LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> > one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> > So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> > cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> > knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> > carried, so that was out.
>
> They matched the shells.
That's nice. Yet they were unsure how many of the 2 types they
> > An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> > LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> > one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> > So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> > cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> > knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> > carried, so that was out.
>
> They matched the shells.
had. 2+2 remington and Winchester, or 3+1. Which was it? Did anyone
have the shells? Can they still be found? If you check the shells,
they don't seem to come from the same gun, most of tyhem. See for
yourself half way down at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
>
> > Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> > Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> > Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> > ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> > shells...:)
>
> So you`ve had no luck. You won`t look into it because it`s just more
> information that goes against your silly ideas.
If you're talking about various witnesses finding different shells
> > Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> > Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> > Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> > ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> > shells...:)
>
> So you`ve had no luck. You won`t look into it because it`s just more
> information that goes against your silly ideas.
and giving them to police, I came across that info. So what? It only
suggests that it might have been the reason some of the shells don't
match each other and don't match the gun either. See above link.
>
> > > How about the witness who said it was Oswald he saw *before* he was
> > > shot you claimed changed his story?
>
> > Now I don't know what you're talking about. Give more information.
>
> Warren Reynolds.
Ah yes! Info above giving the infromation stating he wasn't sure,
> > > How about the witness who said it was Oswald he saw *before* he was
> > > shot you claimed changed his story?
>
> > Now I don't know what you're talking about. Give more information.
>
> Warren Reynolds.
and then a video where he also wasn't sure. Watch him as he
testifies. He's scared and unsure.
>
> > > How about Benavide`s brother, have you found out how his death could
> > > bot possibly be related to the Benavides seeing Tippit killed?
>
> > Well, one possibility is that since they looked alike, someone
> > mistook the brother for Benavides and shot him.
>
> Possible he was shot because someone mistook him for Abraham
> Lincoln. Instead of listing possibilities maybe you should offer
> something that indicates Eddy was killed because he looked like
> Domingo Benavides.
Why would I state that in that fashion? Only an idiot would do
> > > How about Benavide`s brother, have you found out how his death could
> > > bot possibly be related to the Benavides seeing Tippit killed?
>
> > Well, one possibility is that since they looked alike, someone
> > mistook the brother for Benavides and shot him.
>
> Possible he was shot because someone mistook him for Abraham
> Lincoln. Instead of listing possibilities maybe you should offer
> something that indicates Eddy was killed because he looked like
> Domingo Benavides.
that. There isn't clear evidence of why he was shot, leaving guesses.
>
> And Eddy Benavides was killed in 1965, after his brother Domingo
> testified.
You're suggesting he was punished for his brother's error in
> And Eddy Benavides was killed in 1965, after his brother Domingo
> testified.
testifying? Be more clear.
>
> > > As long as you keep purposely clinging to nonsense you will never
> > > figure these simple crimes out.
And of course you've figured them all out...Must have heard it from
> > > As long as you keep purposely clinging to nonsense you will never
> > > figure these simple crimes out.
the WC...:)
>
> > > > > > > > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > > > > > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > > > > > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > > > > > > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > > > > > > > out of hand.
>
> > > > > > > > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > > > > > > > one of the threads...
>
> > > > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > > > > > > > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > > > > > > > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > > > > > > By showing he lied about everything?
>
> > > > > > Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
>
> > > > > None of the known facts support Carr.
>
> > > > > > Certainly from the beginning.
>
> > > > > Yah, in the beginning most of the conspiracy retards were clinging
> > > > > to Carr`s account because it contained information they were loathe to
> > > > > abandon. But Duke Lane kept hammering them with the facts (in other
> > > > > threads also). That Carr couldn`t even see the areas of the TSBD he
> > > > > claimed to have seen activity from where he said he was. That he
> > > > > drastically changed his account every time he told it. That he put a
> > > > > different color Nash Rambler in a different place than Craig did. That
> > > > > he lied under oath about his military service.
>
> > > > Something here doesn't make sense. I checked 2 different versions
> > > > of Carrr's statement, one from the Shaw trial and one from his
> > > > statement to the FBI. They seem to match in all the main
> > > > > > > > > > I would find it of interest to hear just how someone managed to
> > > > > > > > > > discredit Richard Carr who corroborates Roger Craig's information
> > > > > > > > > > about the Rambler.
>
> > > > > > > > > If you had any critical thinking skill at all you could dismiss it
> > > > > > > > > out of hand.
>
> > > > > > > > > Duke Lane did a good job of demolishing Carr on every issue. Here is
> > > > > > > > > one of the threads...
>
> > > > http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=655&st=0
>
> > > > > > > > I recommend that thread for everyone to check out. It spends much
> > > > > > > > more time supporting Carr's statement than discrediting it...:)
>
> > > > > > > By showing he lied about everything?
>
> > > > > > Better check out your own link. Most of it supports Carr.
>
> > > > > None of the known facts support Carr.
>
> > > > > > Certainly from the beginning.
>
> > > > > Yah, in the beginning most of the conspiracy retards were clinging
> > > > > to Carr`s account because it contained information they were loathe to
> > > > > abandon. But Duke Lane kept hammering them with the facts (in other
> > > > > threads also). That Carr couldn`t even see the areas of the TSBD he
> > > > > claimed to have seen activity from where he said he was. That he
> > > > > drastically changed his account every time he told it. That he put a
> > > > > different color Nash Rambler in a different place than Craig did. That
> > > > > he lied under oath about his military service.
>
> > > > Something here doesn't make sense. I checked 2 different versions
> > > > of Carrr's statement, one from the Shaw trial and one from his
some blogger pretending he knows something.
>
> > > > No telling what you would say. And if
> > > > you're going to find a version reported by McAdams, forget it. I've
> > > > No telling what you would say. And if
> > > > been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
> > > > as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
>
> > > If everything goes in one direction maybe it`s because that is the
> > > right direction.
>
> > You would only think that if you were set up to believe the story
> > they got written down first. The only smart thing the WC did was to
> > get their story in first, which was Hoover's intention.
>
> Yah, either there was a massive conspiracy or Oswald was just guilty
> (like the people who saw the shooter at the two murder scenes said he
> was).
>
It didn't take a 'massive' conspiracy', only a few people in
> > > > as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
>
> > > If everything goes in one direction maybe it`s because that is the
> > > right direction.
>
> > You would only think that if you were set up to believe the story
> > they got written down first. The only smart thing the WC did was to
> > get their story in first, which was Hoover's intention.
>
> Yah, either there was a massive conspiracy or Oswald was just guilty
> (like the people who saw the shooter at the two murder scenes said he
> was).
>
position to spread the word that Oswald was guilty and make sure all
the pertinent info was available for all normal forces to look for
him. Enough setup was done to make it loook like he was the guilty
party.
there were a number of people that also saw guys standing around
behind the stockade fence, and people that saw shooters there too and
said so. Of course, they were quickly covered up.
>
> > There were many that saw people there, some with
> > identification that said they were federal authorities (a DPD
> > There were many that saw people there, some with
> > officer saw that),
>
> There were Federal authorities in Dealey Plaza.
Are you suggesting that there was a 'federal authority' that was
>
> There were Federal authorities in Dealey Plaza.
accosted by a DPD officer anf showed his ID quickly and put it away?
The 'federal authorities' later said none of their people were there.
>
> > some people saw a guy with a gun.
>
> "people"? Like who? Hoffman? You can`t even show he was there.
Like Hoffman who stated he was there, and Bowers through his buddy
> > some people saw a guy with a gun.
>
> "people"? Like who? Hoffman? You can`t even show he was there.
Rishel.
> all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
> even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
Why, you just have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw
and heard...:)
>
> > > No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > > > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > > > *** #7 is new
>
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
Bud
May 30, 2012, 10:33:45 AM5/30/12
to
looked like Oswald, they said it was Oswald.
> OK, now I see. They could have been down the road, or nearby
> the scene.
the scene, passing people as he went.
sites. You might be tempted to repeat some of it here and be exposed
as an idiot.
> After he survived an attempt to kill him, he changed his mind and
> identified Oswald as the man he had seen."
> From:http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKStippet.htm
there it is so bad. It`s offering on Carr has a half dozen factual
errors in it. Duke pointed these out to Simpkin, but he didn`t correct
them.
> And Reynolds on video later. He looks nervous answering. I wonder
> why.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
them?
> > > Another item is that the lineups at the DPD were also made such that
> > > Oswald stood out like a sore thumb.
>
> http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/28th_issue/id_draft.html
Had they gagged him he would have been more conspicuous.
> > Conspiracy retards will think up an reason to disregard information
> > that goes against their silly ideas.
>
> Or they will see and hear information that makes the silly WC
> theories less and less possible or senseless.
you want to replace the WC`s findings with? Either there was a massive
conspiracy to make Oswald look guilty or he was just guilty.
> > But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
> > corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
>
> Corroboration that a guy was running with a gun
was seen running with a gun. Oswald was found with a gun. Thats
corroboration, idiot.
>...Hmm...doesn't say
> he killed anyone with the gun.
> The gun that Oswald had later
> misfired, so was it even able to fire earlier? We'll never know. Bad
> ammo? Bad firing pin?
> > > An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> > > LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> > > one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> > > So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> > > cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> > > knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> > > carried, so that was out.
>
> > They matched the shells.
>
> That's nice. Yet they were unsure how many of the 2 types they
> had. 2+2 remington and Winchester, or 3+1. Which was it? Did anyone
> have the shells? Can they still be found? If you check the shells,
> they don't seem to come from the same gun, most of tyhem. See for
> yourself half way down at:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
was just guilty.
> > > Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> > > Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> > > Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> > > ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> > > shells...:)
>
> > So you`ve had no luck. You won`t look into it because it`s just more
> > information that goes against your silly ideas.
>
> If you're talking about various witnesses finding different shells
> and giving them to police, I came across that info.
have been found had Tippit been shot with an automatic?
> So what? It only
> suggests that it might have been the reason some of the shells don't
> match each other and don't match the gun either. See above link.
in the gun Oswald was arrested with and the ones in his pocket, idiot.
> > > > How about the witness who said it was Oswald he saw *before* he was
> > > > shot you claimed changed his story?
>
> > > Now I don't know what you're talking about. Give more information.
>
> > Warren Reynolds.
>
> Ah yes! Info above giving the infromation stating he wasn't sure,
> and then a video where he also wasn't sure. Watch him as he
> testifies. He's scared and unsure.
looked like the guy he saw. His unsurety could have been the result of
the quality of the photo. But you will keep heaping on more complexity
and more crimes you can imagine and not show. You have that luxury,
you are only playing silly retard games.
> > > > How about Benavide`s brother, have you found out how his death could
> > > > bot possibly be related to the Benavides seeing Tippit killed?
>
> > > Well, one possibility is that since they looked alike, someone
> > > mistook the brother for Benavides and shot him.
>
> > Possible he was shot because someone mistook him for Abraham
> > Lincoln. Instead of listing possibilities maybe you should offer
> > something that indicates Eddy was killed because he looked like
> > Domingo Benavides.
>
> Why would I state that in that fashion? Only an idiot would do
> that. There isn't clear evidence of why he was shot, leaving guesses.
willing to imagine silly ones is really of no evidential value.
> > And Eddy Benavides was killed in 1965, after his brother Domingo
> > testified.
>
> You're suggesting he was punished for his brother's error in
> testifying? Be more clear.
reading conspiracy retard and believing everything you read on them
just because the information fits the silly things you want to
believe. Because if you do you will keep being exposed as an idiot by
saying things like...
"Domingo Benevides was one of the witnesses to the Tippit shooting
and said he got a good look at the killer. He wasn't asked to go to a
lineup, and he described the killer as different than Oswald. A
couple of weeks later his lookalike brother was shot and killed. "
Can you support "a couple weeks"? Can you support that Eddy looked
like Domingo? Or are they just things you took at face value?
Or, and this is a longshot, you can go to the moderated group and
search where Jean Davison produced the newspaper article with the
details of the Eddy Benavides shooting.
> > > > As long as you keep purposely clinging to nonsense you will never
> > > > figure these simple crimes out.
>
> And of course you've figured them all out...Must have heard it from
> the WC...:)
can`t do it with their help.
no merit.
But retards will cling to it anyway, even after it is shown that
Carr put a different color car in a different place than Craig,
heading in a direction it couldn`t go. That Carr claimed to see
details from a distance that it was just impossible for him to see the
details he said he did. Or that he saw the shooter leave the building
from the front of the TSBD, an impossibility from where he said he
was. Theres more, and it`s all there for those with the ability to
read and comprehend.
> > > > > No telling what you would say. And if
> > > > > you're going to find a version reported by McAdams, forget it. I've
> > > > > been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
> > > > > as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
>
> > > > If everything goes in one direction maybe it`s because that is the
> > > > right direction.
>
> > > You would only think that if you were set up to believe the story
> > > they got written down first. The only smart thing the WC did was to
> > > get their story in first, which was Hoover's intention.
>
> > Yah, either there was a massive conspiracy or Oswald was just guilty
> > (like the people who saw the shooter at the two murder scenes said he
> > was).
>
> It didn't take a 'massive' conspiracy', only a few people in
> position to spread the word that Oswald was guilty and make sure all
> the pertinent info was available for all normal forces to look for
> him.
realize it or not. You are expanding and complicating things every
post. You have attempts on Reynold`s life. You have all the Tippit
witnesses "gotten to". You go to the "fantastic" well over and over
again, it never occurs to you that the more you are forced to draw
from that well the less likely it is that your ideas have any merit.
cloud of smoke that would rise as a plume 8-10 feet above the ground.
Stone tried to find one for his movie "JFK" and failed, and ended up
using a bellows to produce the smoke for the movie.
> Tell me you didn't know that! Now
> there were a number of people that also saw guys standing around
> behind the stockade fence, and people that saw shooters there too and
> said so. Of course, they were quickly covered up.
> > > There were many that saw people there, some with
> > > identification that said they were federal authorities (a DPD
> > > officer saw that),
>
> > There were Federal authorities in Dealey Plaza.
>
> Are you suggesting that there was a 'federal authority' that was
> accosted by a DPD officer anf showed his ID quickly and put it away?
> The 'federal authorities' later said none of their people were there.
saw them go to the knoll.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/franzen.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce2090.htm
> > > some people saw a guy with a gun.
>
> > "people"? Like who? Hoffman? You can`t even show he was there.
>
> Like Hoffman who stated he was there, and Bowers through his buddy
> Rishel.
hell out of his story, pointing out there were police very close to
where Hoffman claimed to be.
> > all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
> > even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
>
> Why, you just have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw
> and heard...:)
were?
> > > > No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > > > > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > > > > *** #7 is new
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) saw different killer and FBI
> Intimidationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
mainframetech
May 30, 2012, 6:43:39 PM5/30/12
to
been the killer of Tippit. And with all the problems with the clues
and evidence, we might never get there.
McAdams makes stuff up in his zeal for worshiping the WC wacko
theories.
> > After he survived an attempt to kill him, he changed his mind and
> > identified Oswald as the man he had seen."
> > From:http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKStippet.htm
>
> <snicker> "spatacus". Wikipedia won`t even allow information from
> there it is so bad. It`s offering on Carr has a half dozen factual
> errors in it. Duke pointed these out to Simpkin, but he didn`t correct
> them.
think the Wikipedia people check out the many articles they get?
Nope. They may respond to a complaint, but they don't verify anything
that simply comes to them and is put into place. At least 'Duke Lane'
agrees that Carr could've seen what he said from the new courthouse.
>
> > And Reynolds on video later. He looks nervous answering. I wonder
> > why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
>
> What are your "wonderings" worth? Can you support amazing ideas with
> them?
circumstances. Perhaps they will come up with a point or a
direction...:)
>
> > > > Another item is that the lineups at the DPD were also made such that
> > > > Oswald stood out like a sore thumb.
>
> >http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/28th_issue/id_draft.html
>
> Oswald made a commotion that made him stick out like a sore thumb.
> Had they gagged him he would have been more conspicuous.
lineups where he stood out and was the only reasonable choise for a
viewer to pick. Makes the lineups almost useless.
>
> > > Conspiracy retards will think up an reason to disregard information
> > > that goes against their silly ideas.
As will the WC retards.
> > > Conspiracy retards will think up an reason to disregard information
> > > that goes against their silly ideas.
>
> > Or they will see and hear information that makes the silly WC
> > theories less and less possible or senseless.
>
> "less possible"? What could be less plausible than the silly ideas
> you want to replace the WC`s findings with? Either there was a massive
> conspiracy to make Oswald look guilty or he was just guilty.
Nope. Won't do. That wasn't even suggested, that a 'massive
> > Or they will see and hear information that makes the silly WC
> > theories less and less possible or senseless.
>
> "less possible"? What could be less plausible than the silly ideas
> you want to replace the WC`s findings with? Either there was a massive
> conspiracy to make Oswald look guilty or he was just guilty.
conspiracy' had to be the answer. A few well placed people in
authority and in physical positions and you have it. The rest all
thoight they were doing their duty, like the FBI intimidating
witnesses and shutting them up, etc. Which they've been known to do
in other national crises cases.
>
> > > But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
> > > corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
>
> > Corroboration that a guy was running with a gun
>
> No stupid, try reading what I wrote. A man *identified* as Oswald
> was seen running with a gun. Oswald was found with a gun. Thats
> corroboration, idiot.
Of course. Corroboration that LHO had a gun, and IF it was him
> > > But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
> > > corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
>
> > Corroboration that a guy was running with a gun
>
> No stupid, try reading what I wrote. A man *identified* as Oswald
> was seen running with a gun. Oswald was found with a gun. Thats
> corroboration, idiot.
running, he had it out. There were some people that couldn't say it
was LHO, and some that said he wasn't the shooter, and a one that was
a dingbat, and on and on.
>
> >...Hmm...doesn't say
> > he killed anyone with the gun.
>
> It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
Nope. Retardation has nothing to do with what we're speaking of.
> >...Hmm...doesn't say
> > he killed anyone with the gun.
>
> It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
Running with a gun doesn't show shooting of a victim with that gun.
We're not even sure the gun worked, since it failed in the movie
theatre. All the shells found didn't even match the gun.
>
> > The gun that Oswald had later
> > misfired, so was it even able to fire earlier? We'll never know. Bad
> > ammo? Bad firing pin?
>
> This is why they didn`t use idiots to conduct this investigation.
Meaning that the investigators saw that the gun couldn't be
> > The gun that Oswald had later
> > misfired, so was it even able to fire earlier? We'll never know. Bad
> > ammo? Bad firing pin?
>
> This is why they didn`t use idiots to conduct this investigation.
trusted? Or why would you say such a thing? Have any backup, or is
that more assumptions again?
>
> > > > An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> > > > LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> > > > one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> > > > So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> > > > cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> > > > knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> > > > carried, so that was out.
>
> > > They matched the shells.
>
> > That's nice. Yet they were unsure how many of the 2 types they
> > had. 2+2 remington and Winchester, or 3+1. Which was it? Did anyone
> > have the shells? Can they still be found? If you check the shells,
> > they don't seem to come from the same gun, most of them. See for
> > > > An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> > > > LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> > > > one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> > > > So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> > > > cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> > > > knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> > > > carried, so that was out.
>
> > > They matched the shells.
>
> > That's nice. Yet they were unsure how many of the 2 types they
> > had. 2+2 remington and Winchester, or 3+1. Which was it? Did anyone
> > have the shells? Can they still be found? If you check the shells,
> > yourself half way down at:
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> Either there was a huge effort to make Oswald appear guilty or he
> was just guilty.
Hmm. Ignored the evidence. Standard reaction of a denialist.
> Either there was a huge effort to make Oswald appear guilty or he
> was just guilty.
Typical WC worshiper.
>
> > > > Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> > > > Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> > > > Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> > > > ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> > > > shells...:)
>
> > > So you`ve had no luck. You won`t look into it because it`s just more
> > > information that goes against your silly ideas.
>
> > If you're talking about various witnesses finding different shells
> > and giving them to police, I came across that info.
>
> No stupid, that isn`t what I`m talking about. Where would the shells
> have been found had Tippit been shot with an automatic?
Laying around in the area of the shooter, unless the shooter policed
> > > > Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> > > > Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> > > > Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> > > > ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> > > > shells...:)
>
> > > So you`ve had no luck. You won`t look into it because it`s just more
> > > information that goes against your silly ideas.
>
> > If you're talking about various witnesses finding different shells
> > and giving them to police, I came across that info.
>
> No stupid, that isn`t what I`m talking about. Where would the shells
> have been found had Tippit been shot with an automatic?
his brass, or someone came along and picked up shells one by one. Or
the shooter threw them under a bush. Could be in a lot of places.
Now what? Maybe you should check the shells:
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> > So what? It only
> > suggests that it might have been the reason some of the shells don't
> > match each other and don't match the gun either. See above link.
>
> The shells found at the scene match the brands of the shells found
> in the gun Oswald was arrested with and the ones in his pocket, idiot.
think there are in the world? Try matching the marks made by the
hammer on the shells to try and ties the gun to the shells:
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
Well, idiot, perhaps if you would look at the information offered to
you freely, you might see that all the shells don't come from the same
gun. Idiot!
conversation. Things go much quicker when you don't try to be
mysterious, it looks silly on you anyway. I personally don't feel one
way or the other about the brother, since I wasn't going to mention
him anyway until you asked about him.
Your own 'researcher' has helped me. Thanks!
>
> But retards will cling to it anyway, even after it is shown that
> Carr put a different color car in a different place than Craig,
> heading in a direction it couldn`t go. That Carr claimed to see
> details from a distance that it was just impossible for him to see the
> details he said he did. Or that he saw the shooter leave the building
> from the front of the TSBD, an impossibility from where he said he
> was. Theres more, and it`s all there for those with the ability to
> read and comprehend.
>
As usual you've gotten Carr's testimony all wrong. Check into it
> But retards will cling to it anyway, even after it is shown that
> Carr put a different color car in a different place than Craig,
> heading in a direction it couldn`t go. That Carr claimed to see
> details from a distance that it was just impossible for him to see the
> details he said he did. Or that he saw the shooter leave the building
> from the front of the TSBD, an impossibility from where he said he
> was. Theres more, and it`s all there for those with the ability to
> read and comprehend.
>
and find that Carr saw the Rambler picking up people from BEHIND the
TSBD, not in 'front'. As well, I don't see a color being mentioned in
his testimony. I think you'vfe been scammed.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/carrshaw.htm
> > > > > > No telling what you would say. And if
> > > > > > you're going to find a version reported by McAdams, forget it. I've
> > > > > > been to his site and found that he sways everything in one direction
> > > > > > as if he worked for the FBI and wanted to clean up their messes.
>
> > > > > If everything goes in one direction maybe it`s because that is the
> > > > > right direction.
>
> > > > You would only think that if you were set up to believe the story
> > > > they got written down first. The only smart thing the WC did was to
> > > > get their story in first, which was Hoover's intention.
>
> > > Yah, either there was a massive conspiracy or Oswald was just guilty
> > > (like the people who saw the shooter at the two murder scenes said he
> > > was).
>
> > It didn't take a 'massive' conspiracy', only a few people in
> > position to spread the word that Oswald was guilty and make sure all
> > the pertinent info was available for all normal forces to look for
> > him.
>
> No retard, your ideas require a massive conspiracy, whether you
> realize it or not. You are expanding and complicating things every
> post. You have attempts on Reynold`s life. You have all the Tippit
> witnesses "gotten to". You go to the "fantastic" well over and over
> again, it never occurs to you that the more you are forced to draw
> from that well the less likely it is that your ideas have any merit.
>
can't you call me some other name, so you don't have to be such a
cretin towards uninvolved people? You seem to have no appreciation
for the complications that have been introduced into the WC wacky
theory. I mentioned ONE attempt on Reynolds, YOU mentioned more than
one, overcomplicating that one. I don't have all the Tippit witnesses
'gotten to', but the FBI has been complained about in this case more
than a few times. Logical they would do it where they had to so that
the famous WC theory would look more solid. Many of the Tippit
witnessses saw nothing but a guy running, one was a dingbat, and
others saw something different than what you would like them to see.
I'm sure you would like everything to be simplified to the leve l
where you could understand it, but these large cases aren't aso easily
compressed into one mooshy little ball. There were big questions with
the ammunition and the faulty revolver that LHO had on him, and there
were problems with the ammunition not matching the gun, which you
ignored in hopes that it would simplify things, which it doesn't.
admitting that. Now what do you think it was that so many pepole
saw? This is your real test.
>
> > Tell me you didn't know that! Now
> > there were a number of people that also saw guys standing around
> > behind the stockade fence, and people that saw shooters there too and
> > said so. Of course, they were quickly covered up.
>
> All part of this "non-massive" conspiracy you envision.
The FBI has been assigned to cover up incidents far and wide, not
> > Tell me you didn't know that! Now
> > there were a number of people that also saw guys standing around
> > behind the stockade fence, and people that saw shooters there too and
> > said so. Of course, they were quickly covered up.
>
> All part of this "non-massive" conspiracy you envision.
just on the JFK asassination. There was no conspiracy for their boss
to tell them Oswald was guilty, it wil be a big mess if people get the
wrong idea, so see to it. No conspiracy, just FBI agents doing what
they have done many times before without any inside information. A
shame you couldn't see that.
>
> > > > There were many that saw people there, some with
> > > > identification that said they were federal authorities (a DPD
> > > > officer saw that),
>
> > > There were Federal authorities in Dealey Plaza.
>
> > Are you suggesting that there was a 'federal authority' that was
> > accosted by a DPD officer and showed his ID quickly and put it away?
> > > > There were many that saw people there, some with
> > > > identification that said they were federal authorities (a DPD
> > > > officer saw that),
>
> > > There were Federal authorities in Dealey Plaza.
>
> > Are you suggesting that there was a 'federal authority' that was
> > The 'federal authorities' later said none of their people were there.
>
> There were federal authorities in Dealey, and witnesses said they
> saw them go to the knoll.
GO TO the knoll. And yet the authorities said none of their people
>
> There were federal authorities in Dealey, and witnesses said they
> saw them go to the knoll.
were there. Hmm.
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/franzen.htm
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce2090.htm
>
Ahh! Thank you for putting down some links. So much simpler that
way. Yep, I know about the SS people running into action from the
'parade'. I'm speaking of the people that were already in Dealey
Plaza and in the area of the stockade fence, not in the SS car. One
of them was accosted by a DPD motorcycle cop, who showed an ID and he
was let go by the cop. But later the authorities said they had no one
in the area. There were a couple of other cases similar to that, I
believe.
> > > > some people saw a guy with a gun.
>
> > > "people"? Like who? Hoffman? You can`t even show he was there.
any witness was there? Hoffman gave a statement and if it was the
right kind, he would have been chosen by the WC to star in their
drama. Hoffman spoke for himself, including the intimidation from
the FBI when he tried to tell his story right away to the
authorities. They told him to shut up, then they offered him money.
He stayed shut for a few years until he was interviewed.
>
> > Like Hoffman who stated he was there, and Bowers through his buddy
> > Rishel.
>
> But you can`t show that Hoffman was there. Duke Lane also knocks the
> hell out of his story, pointing out there were police very close to
> where Hoffman claimed to be.
If police were close to Hoffman, they didn't consider him to be a
> > Like Hoffman who stated he was there, and Bowers through his buddy
> > Rishel.
>
> But you can`t show that Hoffman was there. Duke Lane also knocks the
> hell out of his story, pointing out there were police very close to
> where Hoffman claimed to be.
threat or involved in any way, and they left him to his own devices.
little 'Dukey Lane' may be your buddy, but now he knows about Hoffman
too? Now he's the guru of the WC sycophants.
>
> > > all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
> > > even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
>
> > Why, you just have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw
> > and heard...:)
>
> Why can`t you just say what these significant "happenings" they saw
> were?
How foolish! They were in different places and saw different things
> > > all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
> > > even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
>
> > Why, you just have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw
> > and heard...:)
>
> Why can`t you just say what these significant "happenings" they saw
> were?
depending on where they were. If near the GK, they saw the action
there that we've been discussing. If they were near the Tippit
killing, they saw parts of that case.
> > > > No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > > > > > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > > > > > *** #7 is new
>
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
Bud
May 30, 2012, 9:12:07 PM5/30/12
to
never be able to figure out this simple crime.
where Reynolds claimed the man he saw wasn`t Oswald. And then you can
show where Eddy Benavides was killed "weeks" after Tippit`s murder
like the other site you quoted claimed.
> McAdams makes stuff up in his zeal for worshiping the WC wacko
> theories.
with a gun might actually have seen Oswald with a gun, especially when
he was arrested carrying a gun. Very wacko, it had to be that everyone
was out to get the poor patsy.
> > > After he survived an attempt to kill him, he changed his mind and
> > > identified Oswald as the man he had seen."
> > > From:http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKStippet.htm
>
> > <snicker> "spatacus". Wikipedia won`t even allow information from
> > there it is so bad. It`s offering on Carr has a half dozen factual
> > errors in it. Duke pointed these out to Simpkin, but he didn`t correct
> > them.
>
> I see your abck to your Beavis & Burrhead impression. You really
> think the Wikipedia people check out the many articles they get?
> Nope. They may respond to a complaint, but they don't verify anything
> that simply comes to them and is put into place. At least 'Duke Lane'
> agrees that Carr could've seen what he said from the new courthouse.
> > > And Reynolds on video later. He looks nervous answering. I wonder
> > > why.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
>
>
>
> > What are your "wonderings" worth? Can you support amazing ideas with
> > them?
>
> Fool! Wonderings are for stimulating other folks to think about the
> circumstances. Perhaps they will come up with a point or a
> direction...:)
> > > > > Another item is that the lineups at the DPD were also made such that
> > > > > Oswald stood out like a sore thumb.
>
> > >http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/28th_issue/id_draft.html
>
> > Oswald made a commotion that made him stick out like a sore thumb.
> > Had they gagged him he would have been more conspicuous.
>
> Basically useless commentary.
like a sore thumb"?
> They put people up against LHO in the
> lineups where he stood out and was the only reasonable choise for a
> viewer to pick.
They said that man was Oswald.
> Makes the lineups almost useless.
> > > > Conspiracy retards will think up an reason to disregard information
> > > > that goes against their silly ideas.
>
> As will the WC retards.
some johnny come lately witness who tells tales that don`t jive with
what any of the witnesses *known* to be at the crime scene related.
> > > Or they will see and hear information that makes the silly WC
> > > theories less and less possible or senseless.
>
> > "less possible"? What could be less plausible than the silly ideas
> > you want to replace the WC`s findings with? Either there was a massive
> > conspiracy to make Oswald look guilty or he was just guilty.
>
> Nope. Won't do. That wasn't even suggested, that a 'massive
> conspiracy' had to be the answer.
just don`t like the reality of your stance brought up, because it
looks silly when it is.
> A few well placed people in
> authority and in physical positions and you have it.
complexities of your ideas.
> The rest all
> thoight they were doing their duty, like the FBI intimidating
> witnesses and shutting them up, etc.
> Which they've been known to do
> in other national crises cases.
of life towing the patsy party line.
> > > > But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
> > > > corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
>
> > > Corroboration that a guy was running with a gun
>
> > No stupid, try reading what I wrote. A man *identified* as Oswald
> > was seen running with a gun. Oswald was found with a gun. Thats
> > corroboration, idiot.
>
> Of course. Corroboration that LHO had a gun, and IF it was him
> running, he had it out.
with a gun.
> There were some people that couldn't say it
> was LHO,
> and some that said he wasn't the shooter, and a one that was
> a dingbat, and on and on.
> > >...Hmm...doesn't say
> > > he killed anyone with the gun.
>
> > It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
>
> Nope. Retardation has nothing to do with what we're speaking of.
> Running with a gun doesn't show shooting of a victim with that gun.
It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
> We're not even sure the gun worked, since it failed in the movie
> theatre.
> All the shells found didn't even match the gun.
made the marks on the shells found at the scene.
> > > The gun that Oswald had later
> > > misfired, so was it even able to fire earlier? We'll never know. Bad
> > > ammo? Bad firing pin?
>
> > This is why they didn`t use idiots to conduct this investigation.
>
> Meaning that the investigators saw that the gun couldn't be
> trusted?
hobby.
> Or why would you say such a thing? Have any backup, or is
> that more assumptions again?
>
> > > > > An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> > > > > LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> > > > > one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> > > > > So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> > > > > cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> > > > > knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> > > > > carried, so that was out.
>
> > > > They matched the shells.
>
> > > That's nice. Yet they were unsure how many of the 2 types they
> > > had. 2+2 remington and Winchester, or 3+1. Which was it? Did anyone
> > > have the shells? Can they still be found? If you check the shells,
> > > they don't seem to come from the same gun, most of them. See for
> > > yourself half way down at:
>
> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> > Either there was a huge effort to make Oswald appear guilty or he
> > was just guilty.
>
> Hmm. Ignored the evidence. Standard reaction of a denialist.
> Typical WC worshiper.
conspiracy retard become evidence? You need a ballistic expert, do you
have one?
> > > > > Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> > > > > Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> > > > > Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> > > > > ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> > > > > shells...:)
>
> > > > So you`ve had no luck. You won`t look into it because it`s just more
> > > > information that goes against your silly ideas.
>
> > > If you're talking about various witnesses finding different shells
> > > and giving them to police, I came across that info.
>
> > No stupid, that isn`t what I`m talking about. Where would the shells
> > have been found had Tippit been shot with an automatic?
>
> Laying around in the area of the shooter, unless the shooter policed
> his brass, or someone came along and picked up shells one by one. Or
> the shooter threw them under a bush. Could be in a lot of places.
were shot by an automatic. They would have been found in a very
specific area, nowhere near where the shells were actually found.
> Now what?
Now you proven how weak the idea is that Tippit was shot by an
automatic.
> Maybe you should check the shells:http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
>
>
> > > So what? It only
> > > suggests that it might have been the reason some of the shells don't
> > > match each other and don't match the gun either. See above link.
>
> > The shells found at the scene match the brands of the shells found
> > in the gun Oswald was arrested with and the ones in his pocket, idiot.
>
> Matched the brands?
strong to ignore you will claim it was planted.
> How many Remington or Winchester shells do you
> think there are in the world? Try matching the marks made by the
> hammer on the shells to try and ties the gun to the shells:http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> Well, idiot, perhaps if you would look at the information offered to
> you freely, you might see that all the shells don't come from the same
> gun. Idiot!
> Things go much quicker when you don't try to be
> mysterious, it looks silly on you anyway. I personally don't feel one
> way or the other about the brother, since I wasn't going to mention
> him anyway until you asked about him.
Could be either. Since I just quoted where you brought up Benavide`s
brother I`m gonna go with "lying". But don`t worry about losing any
credibility over it, you don`t have any.
is going to help someone who is willfully ignorant.
> > But retards will cling to it anyway, even after it is shown that
> > Carr put a different color car in a different place than Craig,
> > heading in a direction it couldn`t go. That Carr claimed to see
> > details from a distance that it was just impossible for him to see the
> > details he said he did. Or that he saw the shooter leave the building
> > from the front of the TSBD, an impossibility from where he said he
> > was. Theres more, and it`s all there for those with the ability to
> > read and comprehend.
>
> As usual you've gotten Carr's testimony all wrong. Check into it
> and find that Carr saw the Rambler picking up people from BEHIND the
> TSBD, not in 'front'. As well, I don't see a color being mentioned in
> his testimony. I think you'vfe been scammed.http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/carrshaw.htm
BTW there is something like 5 sources of stories from Carr, 3 FBI
reports, an interview by Penn Jones and his Shaw trial testimony. Lane
breaks them down and shows the discrepancies in them.
> but the FBI has been complained about in this case more
> than a few times. Logical they would do it where they had to so that
> the famous WC theory would look more solid. Many of the Tippit
> witnessses saw nothing but a guy running, one was a dingbat, and
> others saw something different than what you would like them to see.
can`t accept Oswald`s guilt.
> I'm sure you would like everything to be simplified to the leve l
> where you could understand it, but these large cases aren't aso easily
> compressed into one mooshy little ball. There were big questions with
> the ammunition and the faulty revolver that LHO had on him,
use on the arresting officers.
> and there
> were problems with the ammunition not matching the gun,
> Good, you've come a long way
> admitting that. Now what do you think it was that so many pepole
> saw? This is your real test.
> > > Tell me you didn't know that! Now
> > > there were a number of people that also saw guys standing around
> > > behind the stockade fence, and people that saw shooters there too and
> > > said so. Of course, they were quickly covered up.
>
> > All part of this "non-massive" conspiracy you envision.
>
> The FBI has been assigned to cover up incidents far and wide, not
> just on the JFK asassination. There was no conspiracy for their boss
> to tell them Oswald was guilty, it wil be a big mess if people get the
> wrong idea, so see to it. No conspiracy, just FBI agents doing what
> they have done many times before without any inside information. A
> shame you couldn't see that.
> > > > > There were many that saw people there, some with
> > > > > identification that said they were federal authorities (a DPD
> > > > > officer saw that),
>
> > > > There were Federal authorities in Dealey Plaza.
>
> > > Are you suggesting that there was a 'federal authority' that was
> > > accosted by a DPD officer and showed his ID quickly and put it away?
> > > The 'federal authorities' later said none of their people were there.
>
> > There were federal authorities in Dealey, and witnesses said they
> > saw them go to the knoll.
>
> GO TO the knoll. And yet the authorities said none of their people
> were there. Hmm.
> > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/franzen.htm
>
> > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce2090.htm
>
> Ahh! Thank you for putting down some links. So much simpler that
> way. Yep, I know about the SS people running into action from the
> 'parade'. I'm speaking of the people that were already in Dealey
> Plaza and in the area of the stockade fence, not in the SS car. One
> of them was accosted by a DPD motorcycle cop, who showed an ID and he
> was let go by the cop.
agents the witnesses reported going to the knoll?
> But later the authorities said they had no one
> in the area. There were a couple of other cases similar to that, I
> believe.
>
> > > > > some people saw a guy with a gun.
>
> > > > "people"? Like who? Hoffman? You can`t even show he was there.
>
> It's not my job to show he was there.
> Was it your job to show that
> any witness was there?
> Hoffman gave a statement and if it was the
> right kind, he would have been chosen by the WC to star in their
> drama. Hoffman spoke for himself, including the intimidation from
> the FBI when he tried to tell his story right away to the
> authorities. They told him to shut up, then they offered him money.
> He stayed shut for a few years until he was interviewed.
cling to these types of witnesses even after examination of their
accounts show them to be phony.
> > > Like Hoffman who stated he was there, and Bowers through his buddy
> > > Rishel.
>
> > But you can`t show that Hoffman was there. Duke Lane also knocks the
> > hell out of his story, pointing out there were police very close to
> > where Hoffman claimed to be.
>
> If police were close to Hoffman, they didn't consider him to be a
> threat or involved in any way, and they left him to his own devices.
cops far away. There were cops known to be very close to where he said
he was.
> little 'Dukey Lane' may be your buddy,
into Carr`s claims about his military service in the Shaw trial when
Ted Gittinger raised a red flag here about his claims.
> but now he knows about Hoffman
> too? Now he's the guru of the WC sycophants.
with amazing stories their accounts have to scrutinized to determine
whether they should be believed.
> > > > all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
> > > > even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
>
> > > Why, you just have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw
> > > and heard...:)
>
> > Why can`t you just say what these significant "happenings" they saw
> > were?
>
> How foolish!
significant "happenings" were, but I thought I`d ask anyway.
> They were in different places and saw different things
> depending on where they were. If near the GK, they saw the action
> there that we've been discussing. If they were near the Tippit
> killing, they saw parts of that case.
>
> > > > > No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > > > > > > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > > > > > > *** #7 is new
>
> For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
> statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
> murder:
>
> 1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffmanhttp://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
>
> 2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
> "badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
>
> 3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
>
> 4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
> Hudson, Wilfred Baetzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCCW7R2bZU
>
> 5. Sam Hollandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soqwKWDqRsg
>
> 6. Aquilla Clemmons (Tippit murder) saw different killer and FBI
> Intimidationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCCd0hzLsY
mainframetech
May 31, 2012, 9:42:12 AM5/31/12
to
group of politicians that were covering their butts on the WC. I
would rather think for myself then buttsuck those types.
>
> Then you should be able to back up the claim you found on it. Show
> where Reynolds claimed the man he saw wasn`t Oswald. And then you can
> show where Eddy Benavides was killed "weeks" after Tippit`s murder
> like the other site you quoted claimed.
Give it up. I've shown the information for Reynolds, and the
> Then you should be able to back up the claim you found on it. Show
> where Reynolds claimed the man he saw wasn`t Oswald. And then you can
> show where Eddy Benavides was killed "weeks" after Tippit`s murder
> like the other site you quoted claimed.
business that YOU berought up about Benavides is unimportant to me.
That was your kick, go with it. If you don't believeme, page back and
see.
>
> > McAdams makes stuff up in his zeal for worshiping the WC wacko
> > theories.
>
> Yah, it`s very wacko to think the people who said they saw Oswald
> with a gun might actually have seen Oswald with a gun, especially when
> he was arrested carrying a gun. Very wacko, it had to be that everyone
> was out to get the poor patsy.
Whoa! You went off the edge of the world again! No one said they
> > McAdams makes stuff up in his zeal for worshiping the WC wacko
> > theories.
>
> Yah, it`s very wacko to think the people who said they saw Oswald
> with a gun might actually have seen Oswald with a gun, especially when
> he was arrested carrying a gun. Very wacko, it had to be that everyone
> was out to get the poor patsy.
didn't see an LHO type of guy running by with a gun. LHO had a gun
and it could have been him. If he was afraid he was being set up, he
might well have been running around with a gun out, whether it worked
or not. So you're off on a trip to Wonderland it looks like. Come
back to the real world and deal with the oddball evidence where the
shells don't match each other or the gun. The link was provided
above. And you might explain why LHO's gun failed in the movie
theatre, and was the problem one that would have kept the gun from
working previously at the Tippit murder scene? Who was the guy that
Clemmons saw that was reloading his gun after shooting Tippit and
telling LHO yo go ahead on? Wasn't there a hispanic guy that picked
up LHO in a Rambler earlier?
>
> > > > After he survived an attempt to kill him, he changed his mind and
> > > > identified Oswald as the man he had seen."
> > > > From:http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKStippet.htm
>
> > > <snicker> "spatacus". Wikipedia won`t even allow information from
> > > there it is so bad. It`s offering on Carr has a half dozen factual
> > > errors in it. Duke pointed these out to Simpkin, but he didn`t correct
> > > them.
>
> > think the Wikipedia people check out the many articles they get?
> > Nope. They may respond to a complaint, but they don't verify anything
> > that simply comes to them and is put into place. At least 'Duke Lane'
> > agrees that Carr could've seen what he said from the new courthouse.
And if you believe that Wikipedia actually recognized the
> > Nope. They may respond to a complaint, but they don't verify anything
> > that simply comes to them and is put into place. At least 'Duke Lane'
> > agrees that Carr could've seen what he said from the new courthouse.
'Spartacus' source and rejected articles from it, back that up. Prove
it or for all we know, it didn't happen.
>
> In what context, retard?
Still insulting mentally challenged people I see. Time to grow up.
>
> > > > And Reynolds on video later. He looks nervous answering. I wonder
> > > > why.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
>
> > > What are your "wonderings" worth? Can you support amazing ideas with
> > > them?
>
> > Fool! Wonderings are for stimulating other folks to think about the
> > circumstances. Perhaps they will come up with a point or a
> > direction...:)
>
> Perhaps you are just a self-deluded moron.
Only by association with guess who.
> > > > And Reynolds on video later. He looks nervous answering. I wonder
> > > > why.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ssnsr20kP4
>
> > > What are your "wonderings" worth? Can you support amazing ideas with
> > > them?
>
> > Fool! Wonderings are for stimulating other folks to think about the
> > circumstances. Perhaps they will come up with a point or a
> > direction...:)
>
> Perhaps you are just a self-deluded moron.
>
> > > > > > Another item is that the lineups at the DPD were also made such that
> > > > > > Oswald stood out like a sore thumb.
>
> > > >http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/28th_issue/id_draft.html
>
> > > Oswald made a commotion that made him stick out like a sore thumb.
> > > Had they gagged him he would have been more conspicuous.
>
> > Basically useless commentary.
>
> Do you deny Oswald kicked up a fuss? Didn`t this make him "stand out
> like a sore thumb"?
answered a few questions. There was no screaming or raising hell, or
any such 'fusses'. There was no complaint that he was doing anything
out of the ordinary in the lineups either. But the people they put
him up against made him stand out. Interesting that you're fighting
to cover up that part of things.
>
> > They put people up against LHO in the
> > lineups where he stood out and was the only reasonable choise for a
> > viewer to pick.
>
> The only reasonable choice was for them to select the man they saw.
> They said that man was Oswald.
>
> > Makes the lineups almost useless.
>
> Useless for your silly ideas.
>
> > > > > Conspiracy retards will think up an reason to disregard information
> > > > > that goes against their silly ideas.
>
> > As will the WC retards.
>
> Nope. Won`t do. We don`t try to trump a half dozen witnesses with
> some johnny come lately witness who tells tales that don`t jive with
> what any of the witnesses *known* to be at the crime scene related.
Of course, if there are similar parts to the story, and there was
> > They put people up against LHO in the
> > lineups where he stood out and was the only reasonable choise for a
> > viewer to pick.
>
> The only reasonable choice was for them to select the man they saw.
> They said that man was Oswald.
>
> > Makes the lineups almost useless.
>
> Useless for your silly ideas.
>
> > > > > Conspiracy retards will think up an reason to disregard information
> > > > > that goes against their silly ideas.
>
> > As will the WC retards.
>
> Nope. Won`t do. We don`t try to trump a half dozen witnesses with
> some johnny come lately witness who tells tales that don`t jive with
> what any of the witnesses *known* to be at the crime scene related.
evidence of FBI interference, you have a case. No one has trumped
other witnesses, merely found another that fits right in. Especially
with the FBI shutting up witnesses or changing their story.
>
> > > > Or they will see and hear information that makes the silly WC
> > > > theories less and less possible or senseless.
>
> > > "less possible"? What could be less plausible than the silly ideas
> > > you want to replace the WC`s findings with? Either there was a massive
> > > conspiracy to make Oswald look guilty or he was just guilty.
>
> > Nope. Won't do. That wasn't even suggested, that a 'massive
> > conspiracy' had to be the answer.
>
> Of course it is. It is suggested in every response you make. You
> just don`t like the reality of your stance brought up, because it
> looks silly when it is.
>
> > A few well placed people in
> > authority and in physical positions and you have it.
>
> Nope. Won`t do. That can`t even begin to explain all the
> complexities of your ideas.
If you see complexities, then the problem is your inability to
> > > > Or they will see and hear information that makes the silly WC
> > > > theories less and less possible or senseless.
>
> > > "less possible"? What could be less plausible than the silly ideas
> > > you want to replace the WC`s findings with? Either there was a massive
> > > conspiracy to make Oswald look guilty or he was just guilty.
>
> > Nope. Won't do. That wasn't even suggested, that a 'massive
> > conspiracy' had to be the answer.
>
> Of course it is. It is suggested in every response you make. You
> just don`t like the reality of your stance brought up, because it
> looks silly when it is.
>
> > A few well placed people in
> > authority and in physical positions and you have it.
>
> Nope. Won`t do. That can`t even begin to explain all the
> complexities of your ideas.
handle such simple situations.
>
> > The rest all
> > thought they were doing their duty, like the FBI intimidating
> > witnesses and shutting them up, etc.
>
> See, you are back to a massive conspiracy.
No, Fool. It's simple. They have done that kind of work in the
>
> See, you are back to a massive conspiracy.
past. One simple order and it's taken care of down the ranks.
Sheesh! Why do you over complicate things?
>
> > Which they've been known to do
> > in other national crises cases.
>
> Nope. Won`t do. You have all kinds of people from all kinds of walks
> of life towing the patsy party line.
>
LOL! Even Oswald was claiming he was being used as a patsy...but
> > Which they've been known to do
> > in other national crises cases.
>
> Nope. Won`t do. You have all kinds of people from all kinds of walks
> of life towing the patsy party line.
>
then it was so obvious that everyone immediately got on that
bandwagon, except a few ne'er-do-wells that hugged the legs of the WC
hoping to be petted on the head...:)
> > > > > But the witnesses who said they saw Oswald with a gun were all
> > > > > corroborated when Oswald was arrested with a gun.
>
> > > > Corroboration that a guy was running with a gun
>
> > > No stupid, try reading what I wrote. A man *identified* as Oswald
> > > was seen running with a gun. Oswald was found with a gun. Thats
> > > corroboration, idiot.
>
> > Of course. Corroboration that LHO had a gun, and IF it was him
> > running, he had it out.
>
> Right. The witnesses put him there with a gun and he was arrested
> with a gun.
what? If another guy did the shooting and told the LHO type guy to go
on ahead, why do we care about the LHO type guy with the possibly
faulty gun?
>
> > There were some people that couldn't say it
> > was LHO,
>
> But quite a few did.
>
> > and some that said he wasn't the shooter, and a one that was
> > a dingbat, and on and on.
>
> The dingbat had corroboration.
If so, does that make 2 dingbats?
> > There were some people that couldn't say it
> > was LHO,
>
> But quite a few did.
>
> > and some that said he wasn't the shooter, and a one that was
> > a dingbat, and on and on.
>
> The dingbat had corroboration.
>
> > > >...Hmm...doesn't say
> > > > he killed anyone with the gun.
>
> > > It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
>
> > Nope. Retardation has nothing to do with what we're speaking of.
> > Running with a gun doesn't show shooting of a victim with that gun.
>
> It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
Nope. Won't do. Running with a gun does NOT say you killed someone
> > > >...Hmm...doesn't say
> > > > he killed anyone with the gun.
>
> > > It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
>
> > Nope. Retardation has nothing to do with what we're speaking of.
> > Running with a gun doesn't show shooting of a victim with that gun.
>
> It speaks very loudly to it, unless you are retarded.
with the gun. In this case we also had at least one witness that was
clear that a different guy did the shooting. Since that witness was
making the statement against threats from the FBI, she's more
believable to me. Not to mention that the gun was proven to be
faulty.
>
> > We're not even sure the gun worked, since it failed in the movie
> > theatre.
>
> Why was Oswald trying to shoot those cops?
happened earlier, or on another day.
>
> > All the shells found didn't even match the gun.
>
> The shells were matched to the gun. The firing pin on Oswald`s gun
> made the marks on the shells found at the scene.
So now you're testifying? You weren't there and know nothing of a
> > All the shells found didn't even match the gun.
>
> The shells were matched to the gun. The firing pin on Oswald`s gun
> made the marks on the shells found at the scene.
direct nature.
>
> > > > The gun that Oswald had later
> > > > misfired, so was it even able to fire earlier? We'll never know. Bad
> > > > ammo? Bad firing pin?
>
> > > This is why they didn`t use idiots to conduct this investigation.
>
> > Meaning that the investigators saw that the gun couldn't be
> > trusted?
>
> Meaning you are too stupid to be even looking into this. Get a new
> hobby.
This isn't my hobby. I'm here monitoring a couple people in the
> > > > The gun that Oswald had later
> > > > misfired, so was it even able to fire earlier? We'll never know. Bad
> > > > ammo? Bad firing pin?
>
> > > This is why they didn`t use idiots to conduct this investigation.
>
> > Meaning that the investigators saw that the gun couldn't be
> > trusted?
>
> Meaning you are too stupid to be even looking into this. Get a new
> hobby.
forum.
>
> > Or why would you say such a thing? Have any backup, or is
> > that more assumptions again?
>
Hmm. No answer.
> > Or why would you say such a thing? Have any backup, or is
> > that more assumptions again?
>
> > > > > > An interesting addition to all that is that the old revolver that
> > > > > > LHO had was fired in the movie theatre and didn't work. They found
> > > > > > one cartridge dented by the hammer on the primer cap, but not fired.
> > > > > > So was all his ammo bad, or was the gun not working and striking the
> > > > > > cartridge hard enough? Could he have used it to kill anyone? Who
> > > > > > knows. They were unable to match the bullets in Tippit to the gun LHO
> > > > > > carried, so that was out.
>
> > > > > They matched the shells.
>
> > > > That's nice. Yet they were unsure how many of the 2 types they
> > > > had. 2+2 remington and Winchester, or 3+1. Which was it? Did anyone
> > > > have the shells? Can they still be found? If you check the shells,
> > > > they don't seem to come from the same gun, most of them. See for
> > > > yourself half way down at:
>
> >
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> > > Either there was a huge effort to make Oswald appear guilty or he
> > > was just guilty.
>
> > Hmm. Ignored the evidence. Standard reaction of a denialist.
> > Typical WC worshiper.
>
> Didn`t you say "seem". Since when did how things "seem" to a
> conspiracy retard become evidence? You need a ballistic expert, do you
> have one?
>
ignored it. The guy gives his background in the link too. As well,
you will find the disagreement of the people that examined the bullets
and the shells as to whether they fit the gun, etc. It wasn't all
that sure, that lab report.
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
> > > > > > Had any luck figuring out where the shells would have been found if
> > > > > > Tippit had been shot with an automatic?
>
> > > > > > Obviously they would be nearby in a small area where they were
> > > > > > ejected, same as if someone threw down a handful of expended
> > > > > > shells...:)
>
> > > > > So you`ve had no luck. You won`t look into it because it`s just more
> > > > > information that goes against your silly ideas.
>
> > > > If you're talking about various witnesses finding different shells
> > > > and giving them to police, I came across that info.
>
> > > No stupid, that isn`t what I`m talking about. Where would the shells
> > > have been found had Tippit been shot with an automatic?
>
> > Laying around in the area of the shooter, unless the shooter policed
> > his brass, or someone came along and picked up shells one by one. Or
> > the shooter threw them under a bush. Could be in a lot of places.
>
> No stupid, they wouldn`t be found in "a lot of places" if Tippit
> were shot by an automatic. They would have been found in a very
> specific area, nowhere near where the shells were actually found.
shells under a bush, and you expect them to be in a nice neat little
pile? What a dunce! If a guy used an automatic, and then policed up
the brass and threw it under a bush, the brass would be in the same
place as shells from a revolver when they were thrown. Sheesh! My
anser included polkicing up the brass from an automatic and you missed
it completely. I think this stuff is too complicated for you.
>
> > Now what?
>
> Now you proven how weak the idea is that Tippit was shot by an
> automatic.
>
> > Maybe you should check the shells:
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> > > > So what? It only
> > > > suggests that it might have been the reason some of the shells don't
> > > > match each other and don't match the gun either. See above link.
>
> > > The shells found at the scene match the brands of the shells found
> > > in the gun Oswald was arrested with and the ones in his pocket, idiot.
>
> > Matched the brands?
>
> Yah, more evidence against Oswald you will ignore. And if it is too
> strong to ignore you will claim it was planted.
>
> > How many Remington or Winchester shells do you
> > think there are in the world? Try matching the marks made by the
> > hammer on the shells to try and tie the gun to the shells:
> > Now what?
>
> Now you proven how weak the idea is that Tippit was shot by an
> automatic.
>
> > Maybe you should check the shells:
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> > > > So what? It only
> > > > suggests that it might have been the reason some of the shells don't
> > > > match each other and don't match the gun either. See above link.
>
> > > The shells found at the scene match the brands of the shells found
> > > in the gun Oswald was arrested with and the ones in his pocket, idiot.
>
> > Matched the brands?
>
> Yah, more evidence against Oswald you will ignore. And if it is too
> strong to ignore you will claim it was planted.
>
> > How many Remington or Winchester shells do you
> > think there are in the world? Try matching the marks made by the
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
> > Well, idiot, perhaps if you would look at the information offered to
> > you freely, you might see that all the shells don't come from the same
> > gun. Idiot!
>
> What ballistic expert said that?
He gives his credentials there. Part of his statement is "I've been
>
> > Well, idiot, perhaps if you would look at the information offered to
> > you freely, you might see that all the shells don't come from the same
> > gun. Idiot!
>
> What ballistic expert said that?
A Gunsmith for over 30 years specializing in handgun modifications."
That's certainly more than you have.
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
mentioning the murder. YOU asked the question that brought the 'eddy'
name into this discussion. No getting out of it. Go page back and
check it out, dunce.
>
> > Things go much quicker when you don't try to be
> > mysterious, it looks silly on you anyway. I personally don't feel one
> > way or the other about the brother, since I wasn't going to mention
> > him anyway until you asked about him.
>
> With you it`s hard to tell if you are lying or being stupid here.
> Could be either. Since I just quoted where you brought up Benavide`s
> brother I`m gonna go with "lying". But don`t worry about losing any
> credibility over it, you don`t have any.
I checked back, and obviously you didn't, since you got a different
> > Things go much quicker when you don't try to be
> > mysterious, it looks silly on you anyway. I personally don't feel one
> > way or the other about the brother, since I wasn't going to mention
> > him anyway until you asked about him.
>
> With you it`s hard to tell if you are lying or being stupid here.
> Could be either. Since I just quoted where you brought up Benavide`s
> brother I`m gonna go with "lying". But don`t worry about losing any
> credibility over it, you don`t have any.
answer than I. YOU asked the question that brought 'Eddy' into the
discussion. Try admitting it, and ease your heart of the guilt.
> > Your own 'researcher' has helped me. Thanks!
>
> Nobody can help you, stupid. No amount of information in the world
> is going to help someone who is willfully ignorant.
Useless statement. Ignored.
>
> Nobody can help you, stupid. No amount of information in the world
> is going to help someone who is willfully ignorant.
>
> > > But retards will cling to it anyway, even after it is shown that
> > > Carr put a different color car in a different place than Craig,
> > > heading in a direction it couldn`t go. That Carr claimed to see
> > > details from a distance that it was just impossible for him to see the
> > > details he said he did. Or that he saw the shooter leave the building
> > > from the front of the TSBD, an impossibility from where he said he
> > > was. Theres more, and it`s all there for those with the ability to
> > > read and comprehend.
>
> > As usual you've gotten Carr's testimony all wrong. Check into it
> > and find that Carr saw the Rambler picking up people from BEHIND the
> > TSBD, not in 'front'. As well, I don't see a color being mentioned in
> > his testimony. I think you've been scammed.
> > > But retards will cling to it anyway, even after it is shown that
> > > Carr put a different color car in a different place than Craig,
> > > heading in a direction it couldn`t go. That Carr claimed to see
> > > details from a distance that it was just impossible for him to see the
> > > details he said he did. Or that he saw the shooter leave the building
> > > from the front of the TSBD, an impossibility from where he said he
> > > was. Theres more, and it`s all there for those with the ability to
> > > read and comprehend.
>
> > As usual you've gotten Carr's testimony all wrong. Check into it
> > and find that Carr saw the Rambler picking up people from BEHIND the
> > TSBD, not in 'front'. As well, I don't see a color being mentioned in
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/carrshaw.htm
>
> It`s all in the discussions I linked to. Read. Learn.
Nope. I linked to the testimony itself. A discussion about the
>
> It`s all in the discussions I linked to. Read. Learn.
testimony would be of secondary importance at best. Read, learn. If
someone got a color out of testimony that didn't mention a color, it
makes one wonder what value that discussion had. Although you would
find it perfectly appropriate since it's what you want to hear.
>
> BTW there is something like 5 sources of stories from Carr, 3 FBI
> reports, an interview by Penn Jones and his Shaw trial testimony. Lane
> breaks them down and shows the discrepancies in them.
Show me where the famous Duke Lane does all this and I'll hop over
> BTW there is something like 5 sources of stories from Carr, 3 FBI
> reports, an interview by Penn Jones and his Shaw trial testimony. Lane
> breaks them down and shows the discrepancies in them.
there and check it out. The guy validated my view once, so maybe
he'll do it again.
patsy including the Tippit murder. Too many questions about what
happened, too much trouble with matching bullets and guns and such,
different stories of witnesses, FBI interference and fear-mongering,
lab techs that disagree about matching shells and guns. A mess, but
if solid proof came out that LHO shot Tippit, I'd have to go along
with it. All these things that happened to make the Tippit case a
mess is like trying to follow the WC wacko version of the JFK murder
too.
>
> > I'm sure you would like everything to be simplified to the level
> > where you could understand it, but these large cases aren't so easily
> > I'm sure you would like everything to be simplified to the level
> > compressed into one mooshy little ball. There were big questions with
> > the ammunition and the faulty revolver that LHO had on him,
>
> Apparently he was unaware that it didn`t work when he pulled it to
> use on the arresting officers.
>
Lordee. We don't know that was where he tried to fire the gun.
> > the ammunition and the faulty revolver that LHO had on him,
>
> Apparently he was unaware that it didn`t work when he pulled it to
> use on the arresting officers.
>
They thought they heard a sound like a firing pin, but no one was sure
in all the chaos. It could have been earlier when he tried and failed
to kill Tippit, or who knows how long before the movie theatre. For
all we know, he tried to kill himself and failed.
> > and there
> > were problems with the ammunition not matching the gun,
>
> What do you mean?
cartridges. It meant that the bullets couldn't be matched to the
gun. There was also disagreement between a couple of the lab techs
examining the gun and shells and bullets, and the primer caps on the
shells show they came from different guns.
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
discharging into the ocean. Carries no weight, just a smell. What do
you attribute the smoke to, since Holland saw it and made it clear it
wasn't cigarette smoke or a 'puff of steam'?
>
> > Good, you've come a long way
> > admitting that. Now what do you think it was that so many pepole
> > saw? This is your real test.
>
> It really doesn`t matter, once gunsmoke is ruled out.
Who tried to rule that out? If a guy ran out of smokeless powder,
> > Good, you've come a long way
> > admitting that. Now what do you think it was that so many pepole
> > saw? This is your real test.
>
> It really doesn`t matter, once gunsmoke is ruled out.
he may have used some old black powder he had laying around for his
civil war Springfield. He might have rubbed trwo sticks together.
Might be any number of things making a puff of smoke there right at
exactly the time of a rifle shot. Who knows.
>
> > > > Tell me you didn't know that! Now
> > > > there were a number of people that also saw guys standing around
> > > > behind the stockade fence, and people that saw shooters there too and
> > > > said so. Of course, they were quickly covered up.
>
> > > All part of this "non-massive" conspiracy you envision.
>
> > The FBI has been assigned to cover up incidents far and wide, not
> > just on the JFK asassination. There was no conspiracy for their boss
> > to tell them Oswald was guilty, it wil be a big mess if people get the
> > wrong idea, so see to it. No conspiracy, just FBI agents doing what
> > they have done many times before without any inside information. A
> > shame you couldn't see that.
>
> A shame you can`t show it.
Ah, but I have. There are many witnesses saying the FBI tried to
> > > > Tell me you didn't know that! Now
> > > > there were a number of people that also saw guys standing around
> > > > behind the stockade fence, and people that saw shooters there too and
> > > > said so. Of course, they were quickly covered up.
>
> > > All part of this "non-massive" conspiracy you envision.
>
> > The FBI has been assigned to cover up incidents far and wide, not
> > just on the JFK asassination. There was no conspiracy for their boss
> > to tell them Oswald was guilty, it wil be a big mess if people get the
> > wrong idea, so see to it. No conspiracy, just FBI agents doing what
> > they have done many times before without any inside information. A
> > shame you couldn't see that.
>
> A shame you can`t show it.
change stories, told people to shut up, offered them money, or just
plain threatened them. And you can always go here for many stories of
inmtimidation:
http://dealeyintimidation.tripod.com/
>
> > > > > > There were many that saw people there, some with
> > > > > > identification that said they were federal authorities (a DPD
> > > > > > officer saw that),
>
> > > > > There were Federal authorities in Dealey Plaza.
>
> > > > Are you suggesting that there was a 'federal authority' that was
> > > > accosted by a DPD officer and showed his ID quickly and put it away?
> > > > The 'federal authorities' later said none of their people were there.
>
> > > There were federal authorities in Dealey, and witnesses said they
> > > saw them go to the knoll.
>
> > GO TO the knoll. And yet the authorities said none of their people
> > were there. Hmm.
>
> Quote the "authorities".
>
> > > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/franzen.htm
>
> > > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce2090.htm
>
> > Ahh! Thank you for putting down some links. So much simpler that
> > way. Yep, I know about the SS people running into action from the
> > 'parade'. I'm speaking of the people that were already in Dealey
> > Plaza and in the area of the stockade fence, not in the SS car. One
> > of them was accosted by a DPD motorcycle cop, who showed an ID and he
> > was let go by the cop.
>
> In what way have you ruled out that the cop came across one of the
> agents the witnesses reported going to the knoll?
supposedly jumped out of the car in the motorcade. I'm talking about
a motorcycle officer (Joe Smith) who ran his cycle up the grass to the
bushes and looked around there. He encountered a stranger who then
identified himself as a secret service agent. Here's his testimony
about meeting the SS agent on the GK:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/smith_j1.htm
As well, we also have statements from many different witnesses
including regular, police, and agents here. This includes a check for
agents on scene and there were NONE.
http://jfklancer.com/knollagent/index.html
>
> > But later the authorities said they had no one
> > in the area. There were a couple of other cases similar to that, I
> > believe.
>
> > > > > > some people saw a guy with a gun.
>
> > > > > "people"? Like who? Hoffman? You can`t even show he was there.
>
> > It's not my job to show he was there.
>
> It`s not your job to be stupid, but you are.
the proof above stupid.
>
> > Was it your job to show that
> > any witness was there?
>
> Can you dispute any witnesses I`ve ever used having been there?
>
> > Hoffman gave a statement and if it was the
> > right kind, he would have been chosen by the WC to star in their
> > drama. Hoffman spoke for himself, including the intimidation from
> > the FBI when he tried to tell his story right away to the
> > authorities. They told him to shut up, then they offered him money.
> > He stayed shut for a few years until he was interviewed.
>
> Hoffman has been totally discredited. You conspiracy idiots still
> cling to these types of witnesses even after examination of their
> accounts show them to be phony.
Hoffman has NOT been discredited. Who could do that? You? Where's
> > Was it your job to show that
> > any witness was there?
>
> Can you dispute any witnesses I`ve ever used having been there?
>
> > Hoffman gave a statement and if it was the
> > right kind, he would have been chosen by the WC to star in their
> > drama. Hoffman spoke for himself, including the intimidation from
> > the FBI when he tried to tell his story right away to the
> > authorities. They told him to shut up, then they offered him money.
> > He stayed shut for a few years until he was interviewed.
>
> Hoffman has been totally discredited. You conspiracy idiots still
> cling to these types of witnesses even after examination of their
> accounts show them to be phony.
the backup? The everlovin' Duke Lane? WC lover to the stars?
>
> > > > Like Hoffman who stated he was there, and Bowers through his buddy
> > > > Rishel.
>
> > > But you can`t show that Hoffman was there. Duke Lane also knocks the
> > > hell out of his story, pointing out there were police very close to
> > > where Hoffman claimed to be.
>
> > If police were close to Hoffman, they didn't consider him to be a
> > threat or involved in any way, and they left him to his own devices.
>
> No, retard, he claimed that he tried to get the attention of some
> cops far away. There were cops known to be very close to where he said
> he was.
So you admit that Hoffman tried to report his information to a cop
> > > > Like Hoffman who stated he was there, and Bowers through his buddy
> > > > Rishel.
>
> > > But you can`t show that Hoffman was there. Duke Lane also knocks the
> > > hell out of his story, pointing out there were police very close to
> > > where Hoffman claimed to be.
>
> > If police were close to Hoffman, they didn't consider him to be a
> > threat or involved in any way, and they left him to his own devices.
>
> No, retard, he claimed that he tried to get the attention of some
> cops far away. There were cops known to be very close to where he said
> he was.
on the same day? Good. A few other WC lovers have said he had said
nothing until a few years later.
>
> > little 'Dukey Lane' may be your buddy,
>
> Not my buddy, he`s a CTer. I did contact him and suggested he look
> into Carr`s claims about his military service in the Shaw trial when
> Ted Gittinger raised a red flag here about his claims.
And what did he have to say about the 'fifth' and 'fourth' mixup?
> > little 'Dukey Lane' may be your buddy,
>
> Not my buddy, he`s a CTer. I did contact him and suggested he look
> into Carr`s claims about his military service in the Shaw trial when
> Ted Gittinger raised a red flag here about his claims.
>
> > but now he knows about Hoffman
> > too? Now he's the guru of the WC sycophants.
>
> I think he believes when these uncorroborated witnesses come forward
> with amazing stories their accounts have to scrutinized to determine
> whether they should be believed. Oh, we do need to do that. Including the ones that can see for miles and were right in the right place to see things...:)
> > but now he knows about Hoffman
> > too? Now he's the guru of the WC sycophants.
>
> I think he believes when these uncorroborated witnesses come forward
> with amazing stories their accounts have to scrutinized to determine
>
> > > > > all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
> > > > > even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
>
> > > > Why, you just have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw
> > > > and heard...:)
>
> > > Why can`t you just say what these significant "happenings" they saw
> > > were?
>
> > How foolish!
>
> I know, I didn`t think you would be able to say what these
> significant "happenings" were, but I thought I`d ask anyway.
> They were in different places and saw different things
> > depending on where they were. If near the GK, they saw the action
> > there that we've been discussing. If they were near the Tippit
> > killing, they saw parts of that case.
>
> > > > > > No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > > > > > > > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > > > > > > > *** #7 is new
>
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
> > > > > all your favorite witnesses (Hoffman, Clemmons and Carr) you can`t
> > > > > even establish their presence at the respective murder scenes.
>
> > > > Why, you just have to watch the videos I listed to hear what they saw
> > > > and heard...:)
>
> > > Why can`t you just say what these significant "happenings" they saw
> > > were?
>
> > How foolish!
>
> I know, I didn`t think you would be able to say what these
> significant "happenings" were, but I thought I`d ask anyway.
> They were in different places and saw different things
> > depending on where they were. If near the GK, they saw the action
> > there that we've been discussing. If they were near the Tippit
> > killing, they saw parts of that case.
>
> > > > > > No wonder you're a WC minion! You
> > > > > > > > haven't seen the real world after all this time!
>
> > > > > > > > *** #7 is new
>
For those that might have missed it, here are some of the names and
statements about happenings at the Grassy Knoll and the Tippit
murder:
1. Lee Bowers, Walter Rishel, Penn Jones, Ed Hoffman
http://tinyurl.com/c3hkklt
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
2. Beverly Oliver (film taken), gordon arnold (film taken by FBI),
"badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI
3. Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Sen. Yarborough, "Badgeman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A
4. Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, Lee Bowers, Charles Brehm, Emmett
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