Where is storm drain in Z?
John
frames you could get a good look at it. TiA
John
Gil Jesus
at the area of the curb between the rear of JFK's limo and the front of the
followup SS car to actually see it. (After the head shot)
Rewinding the film and playing it slowly seems to show that the location of
the drain is directly along side the limo at the precise time of the frontal
shot that whips JFK's head backwards.
"Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor, Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow." Isaiah 1:17 (New King James Version)
Morehits4u
>From: cos...@webtv.net (John)
>Date: 6/1/03 5:58 PM Central
>Can we see it in the Zapruder film, if so could anyone point out what
>frames you could get a good look at it. TiA
>
> John
Didnt " Mobster " Johnnie Roselli say
he was the shooter..in the man hole ? I
seem to recall the statement .. made in
a book written by Joe Bonnano's son Bill.
AnthonyMarsh
You can't see the storm drain in question in the Zapruder film, because
it is on the same side of the street as Zapruder was standing.
You can see the companion storm drain on the other side of the street
and imagine it in the same location on the other side of the street.
Various maps (see mine) show its location near the steps leading up to
the pergola.
--
Anthony Marsh
The Puzzle Palace http://www.boston.quik.com/amarsh
Gerbil Face Johnson
Concealed, great escape exit a good distance from the scene, very close to the
motorcade...
And from many accounts the trajectory of the final headshot is consistent with
the upward angle of a shot from the storm drain...
Dgosha
>The storm drain is evident in the Nix film, although you have to look
>carefully
>at the area of the curb between the rear of JFK's limo and the front of the
>followup SS car to actually see it. (After the head shot)
> Rewinding the film and playing it slowly seems to show that the location of
>the drain is directly along side the limo at the precise time of the frontal
>shot that whips JFK's head backwards.
Hey Gil, how many times does it have to be pointed out to you (and others of
the underground persuasion) that a shooter in the sEwEr didn't have a shot at
JFK then?
Even if he did, how stupid it would have been to place a guy there and have him
have to make a broadside shot as JFK was traveling across his field of vision.
Just more CT love of spoooookiness.
Doug
Dgosha
Oh ideal huh? Just perfect with the target moving across your field of vision.
Do some thinking Gerb instead of buying into CT nonsense.
Doug
Gerbil Face Johnson
>Date: 6/3/03 1:24 PM Pacific
>>It was THE IDEAL place from which to shoot the final head shot.
>>
>>Concealed, great escape exit a good distance from the scene, very close to
>>the
>>motorcade...
>>
>>And from many accounts the trajectory of the final headshot is consistent
>>with
>>the upward angle of a shot from the storm drain...
>
>
> Oh ideal huh? Just perfect with the target moving across your field of
>vision.
Ah, but there is the mistake you make.
The original storm drain was quite large and allowed for full manuverability of
a weapon. It WAS an ideal location from which to shoot a passing President.
Here is a photograph of the storm drain in 1963.
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/park/1097/storm.html
scroll down to the bottom and see what it looks like--from inside--today---a
much narrower opening. Even today, it's still a very easy shot if your target
is moving as slowly as the motorcade was.
A very, very easy shot indeed.
Dgosha
>>From: dgo...@aol.com (Dgosha)
>>Date: 6/3/03 1:24 PM Pacific
>
>>>It was THE IDEAL place from which to shoot the final head shot.
>>>
>>>Concealed, great escape exit a good distance from the scene, very close to
>>>the
>>>motorcade...
>>>
>>>And from many accounts the trajectory of the final headshot is consistent
>>>with
>>>the upward angle of a shot from the storm drain...
>>
>>
>> Oh ideal huh? Just perfect with the target moving across your field of
>>vision.
>
>Ah, but there is the mistake you make.
Look, I know all about the size difference between the drain today and 1963.
Why do you presuppose I don't?
>The original storm drain was quite large and allowed for full manuverability
>of
>a weapon. It WAS an ideal location from which to shoot a passing President.
Here's that "ideal location" thing again. You're just buying into CT "research"
without thinking it out. There's still the problem of the target moving ACROSS
your vision field. NOT an easy shot!
>Here is a photograph of the storm drain in 1963.
>
>http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/park/1097/storm.html
Oh, Oh, reading "Monk's" site huh? I guess that explains a lot.
>scroll down to the bottom and see what it looks like--from inside--today---a
>much narrower opening. Even today, it's still a very easy shot if your target
>is moving as slowly as the motorcade was.
Approx. 10 miles per hour is NOT that slow when it's right in front of you and
across your field (you know, from one side to the other).
>
>A very, very easy shot indeed.
Well, you just go ahead and believe that then.
GO_SECURE
Doug
Vern Pascal
At Z 313-24, the limo was approaching straight down the middle of the
street towards the storm drain. During this brief moment, JFK's head
would be an exposed target. That was the window of opportunity for any
storm drain shooter. Obviously, by the time the limo was "crossing" the
shooter's point of view, there was no shot possible. Don't you find it
at least "coincidental" that the moment when the headshot did occur,
was exactly at the same moment that this window of opportunity arose
from the storm drain?---Vern
Dgosha
Hi Vern (and it's a little emotional to write that name because it was my
father's name also who I lost in January),
You may be correct even though it would have been a very brief window.
When I first saw the Zapruder film at circa 313, I ,like many others, exclaimed
"My God he was hit from the front" However, after really looking at what
happens in those frames, it was obvious to me that the backward movement
occured too late to have been caused by the shot itself. I also don't believe
that a bullet could move a torso like JFK's does in the film.
May I also take this opportunity to state that I ,unlike many other LNs, regard
JFK as having been a very great man and it was a true tragedy that he was
assassinated. I was 11 at the time.
Regards,
Doug
Gil Jesus
shot didn't come from the picket fence, it came from that drain.
The picket fence was "cannon fodder", a diversion that included an explosive
device with smoke and a loud bang designed to throw everyone off.
Part of that diversion involved people running in all sorts of directions amid
mass confusion and shock.
THAT was the gunpowder that was smelled and THAT was the "puff" of smoke that
was seen. The "flash of light" that Lee Bowers saw was the lighting and
burning of the fuse.
A distraction created to allow the real killers a chance to escape.
Winston Lawson moved the motorcycles back on Thursday the 21st to give the
shooter in the drain a clear, unobstructed and point-blank shot at the
President's head, and Greer wasn't turning back to look at JFK, he was looking
back for the storm drain and was slowing the car down as it approached it and
brought it nearly to a stop when the limo was alongside the opening of the
drain to make sure that the shot was successful.
The Secret Service didn't shoot Kennedy, but they made it easy for someone
else to.
That storm drain led to the Trinity River.
Shortly after the assassination, the Dallas Police dispatcher sent a cruiser
to an area "near the Trinity River" where there had been "a report of a man
with a rifle".
When the police got there they found no one.
This may have been the shooter in the storm drain.
Gil Jesus
After viewing my "head shot" videos, I believe that the first head shot may
well have come from the storm drain on Jackie's side of the car, entering the
President's head from the LEFT rear and blasting out his right front as the
second head shot, fired from the drain on the President's side of the car
blasted out the rear of his head at such an accelerated speed, that his head
was whipped "back and to the left" with such force as to splatter brain matter
and blood all over the motorcycle officers that were riding to the rear and
left of his car.
After 37 years of studying this crme, that's what I am inclined to believe
happened.
That's why the autopsy photos and xrays don't match. They're fakes. The real
ones would have shown that the head shots did not come from above and as such,
Oswald did not kill Kennedy.
The real autopsy photos , the ones that William Bruce Pitzer was murdered for,
would have shown a trajectory consistent with a shot coming out of the ground,
or in this case, the storm drain.
Now, if this is true, then it all beings to make sense. The negative paraffin
test and the FBI's lying about it.
The bullet fragments that don't match Western Cartridge ammunition. The magic
bullet, CE 399 which I've shown in the past had nothing to do with the
assassination.
The paper bag that never came from the TSBD mailroom.
Maybe the LNers can answer a couple of questions for me :
Why were the results of the wounds tests that were conducted by Dr Olivier and
his group not published until March, 1965 ?
Why were those published results not released until March, 1973 ?
Why was the negative result of the paraffin test of Oswald's cheeks not
revealed until September 1964, even though the Commission met in executive
session on January 27, 1964 to discuss it ?
Sam McClung
> I'm telling you people (and have been for quite some time now) that the kill
> shot didn't come from the picket fence
here is the sniper who fired the kill shot,
not in the storm drain
http://www.flash.net/~sammc/sniper-z.html
debate away,
this truth will not change...
i seriously doubt anyone was in the drain 11-22-63
Vern Pascal
Imho, you're both partially right and both partially wrong. Sam says
Picket fence, Gil says no, it was storm drain. But is it a case of
simply one or the other? Doesn't it make more sense to have at least
two insurance shooters to the front of the limo, where the kill-shot(s)
could be assured? There could have been a shooter both behind the
picket fence and in the storm drain. And what's more, we can't rule
out the south side of the overpass area either. As a matter of fact, I
have not ruled out the possibility of two frontal shots to the head
---Regards, Vern
Sam McClung
2 by south noll sniper,
1 by north knoll sniper
http://www.flash.net/~sammc/
no one in storm drain
1 shot from behind
Gil Jesus
without anyone seeing him or his weapon, especially Bowers.
People's reaction was to converge on what they thought was the source of the
shot (the knoll) and they saw nothing.
The drains offered an escape without detection.
The military intelligence people created the diversion and they did a great job
of it.
Forty years later, we're still debating it.
Sam McClung
> I find it hard to believe
start believing then,
because that is reality
> that any shooter behind the fence could have escaped
> without anyone seeing him or his weapon, especially Bowers.
he was seen and filmed
http://www.flash.net/~sammc/sniper-z.html
http://www.flash.net/~sammc/eyewitnesses.html
> People's reaction was to converge on what they thought was the source of the
> shot (the knoll) and they saw nothing.
they saw more than nothing...
> The drains offered an escape without detection.
they could have,
possubly,
but they didn't on 11-22-63
> The military intelligence people created the diversion and they did a great job
> of it.
cia wold be more precise
> Forty years later, we're still debating it.
not i,
for i know what happened
http://www.flash.net/~sammc/
primes inter pares
John
pictures of it, from the right side of the road and from inside the
storm drain itself with a man looking out. Good researching takes a lot
of patience, I got away from finding bullets in flight and concentrated
on a film segment that made sense.
The Badgeman didn't hit anyone, his real job was to get people to
*think* that the shot was from the grassy knoll fence; to literally lead
people away from the real killer located in the storm drain in front and
below Mr. Zs movie camera.
I have all new pictures and text in my hopefully last home page I have
to make up this year, I kept it under the same title and URL. Tell me
what else should be in it, I just read Robert Harris report on the three
tramps with one carrying what could be a gun case, do you think after
reading my home page, I should add that as that would be the source of
the frontal throat wound and where in the page should I put the tramps.
BTW the H.P. has 3 pages, 2 with pictures and text, the last one is all
text under the capped The Conspiracy at the very top.
Maybe someone will read what I have to say somewhere where in my travels
and realize 'they' might have the information we really need. Close the
greatest Murder Mystery of the 20th Century, I unlike others want no
compensation for my efforts.
I don't profit from a Human Beings unnatural end of life, we all have a
time to die. On talking about JFK this mans life was altered and not
allowed to die in God's good time. Thanks for the good help given to
inspire me to what has been mostly reading until the internet came along
with Progressive Scan (480p) DVD players; with built in line doublers
for a near digital frame shot in color. TIA
John
AnthonyMarsh
It would not be hard to shoot from the storm drain, but such a shot
would be blocked from hitting the President's head at Z-312/313 by the
side glass. There was not a clear trajectory.
AnthonyMarsh
Except for the fact that you forgot that Nellie's window was rolled up
halfway.
Gerbil Face Johnson
I've read otherwise, but if you have a diagram or photo which could make this
clear to me, please post.
John
final home age are not from artifact bullets. but the drain in 3 shots
in line doubled progressive scan with JFK centered in each one of JFK
ambush.
Only this drain unlike others I have seen is nearly in front of where
Zapruder was filming with his lady friend holding onto him because of
his vertigo. Take a look at the several pages and words I have used.
It's on the same URL on the bottom under my name John
John
Gil Jesus
one almost in front of Zapruder and it's shown I believe in the Nix film. In
Nix, it shows up between the cars just frames after the head shot.
Kennedy was not blocked by any side glass. The side windows in the car were not
up. Photos of the motorcade clearly show the President with his elbow resting
across the top of the door.
O.H. LEE
gjj...@aol.com (Gil Jesus) wrote:
>Exactly John, that's the same storm drain that I've been saying for years.
The
>one almost in front of Zapruder and it's shown I believe in the Nix film.
In
>Nix, it shows up between the cars just frames after the head shot.
>
>Kennedy was not blocked by any side glass. The side windows in the car were
not
>up. Photos of the motorcade clearly show the President with his elbow resting
>across the top of the door.
Hello Gil - Yes, this is a major contention of Tony's - that the limo's
side glass would have prevented a clean shot at JFK from that sewer drain.
But you know something? Now that you mention it, I too recall JFK adopting
a posture during the motorcade whereby his right elbow was indeed resting
upon his door, with no obstruction from any window glass. So I wonder what
glass Tony is referring to here? Could it be another window on that side
of the limo that would have obstructed a shot from the sewer drain? Maybe
Tony can weigh in here Gil, because as I recall it, your observation is right.
JFK's limo window was indeed down at that time.
Regards,
O.H. LEE
"Don't believe the so called evidence."
Lee Harvey Oswald to his brother Robert
Saturday, November 23, 1963
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
John
of fire from the drain and that a man could be standing inside the
drain. I have centered the shots of JFK. Gil the one that really matters
is the storm drain centered shot showing JFK with his head down, that
would be the one in front of Zapruder or Z312. Gil please read and see
actual line doubled 480p clear images of the drain, what it looked like
in 1963 and the view towards TSBD! Home page is below signature of John.
John
Sam McClung
since jackal fired the kill shot,
but a storm drain trajectory would have sent jfk *up*, back, and to the left
except for those jet theory believers,
in which case the body would have flown back at a storm drain sniper
Vern Pascal
one forming the side portion of the larger "privacy" window which
separates the front compartment of the car from the rear compartment.
Although the privacy window itself was not closed, the side glass, just
in front of Connolly had a permanent slightly curved framed pane about 8
inches wide and 14 inches high. It clearly shows in several of the
motorcade photos. This may possibly obstruct a clear view from the storm
drain at Z313, but not shortly thereafter, when a second frontal shot
could have occurred.
Vern
Gil Jesus
fired from that storm drain. I hope to include some pictures (including some
from John's site) that I hope will describe what I believed happened.
Thank you for your patience.
Gil Jesus
O.H. LEE
Hello Vern - Okay, let's analyze this one aspect at a time. First, as the
limousine turned onto Elm and began cruising slowly toward where a storm
drain shooter would have been, such a shooter would have been blocked from
having a clear shot at JFK merely by the presence of Governor Connally initially,
as the angle would have been too much "head-on" to see JFK clearly. Okay,
the Governor was slightly inboard of JFK, so this would have helped some.
Now, the issue of glass: we know that JFK had no glass whatsoever to his
immediate right,as his arm often rested on that door, correct? Did the Governor
also have no glass to his immediate right Vern? In other words, could Connally
have also rested his arm on the top of his door had he wanted to? If so,
this moves any glass obstructing a potential storm drain sniper appreciably
forward, giving him an eventual workable angle to JFK sooner rather than
later. So, where was that glass obstacle with respect to Governor Connally?
Was it just ahead of him, in the form of a wing window, and to his right?
Kellerman was seated directly ahead of the Governor, correct? Where was the
side glass in relation to him? A lot of questions Vern, but in any event,
I'm beginning to think that at some point on Elm, a storm drain shot would
have been eminently doable, clear of any glass obstacle. At what Z-frame
this would correspond to I haven't the foggiest right now, but as you say,
that should be able to be determined. And one other thing. Any shot from
the storm drain striking JFK would have probably been a tangential strike,
possibly hitting him just behind the temple and above the right ear. Coincidentally,
there is indeed some solid evidence pointing to such a strike.
AnthonyMarsh
A long time ago when I could post binaries I did post a drawing showing
this. Bob Cutler diagrammed it a long time ago in The Grassy Knoll
Gazette.
I could post something on my web site and then you could click on it.
AnthonyMarsh
>
> Exactly John, that's the same storm drain that I've been saying for years. The
> one almost in front of Zapruder and it's shown I believe in the Nix film. In
> Nix, it shows up between the cars just frames after the head shot.
>
> Kennedy was not blocked by any side glass. The side windows in the car were not
> up. Photos of the motorcade clearly show the President with his elbow resting
> across the top of the door.
>
Please pay attention. I did not say windows. If I had meant windows I
would have said windows. I said side glass. That is a piece of glass
which is always up, between the front compartment and the rear
compartment. If you don't know where it is, that is part of your problem
in thinking that a storm drain shot could hit the President.
> "Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor, Defend the fatherless,
> Plead for the widow." Isaiah 1:17 (New King James Version)
AnthonyMarsh
>
> gjj...@aol.com (Gil Jesus) wrote:
> >Exactly John, that's the same storm drain that I've been saying for years.
> The
> >one almost in front of Zapruder and it's shown I believe in the Nix film.
> In
> >Nix, it shows up between the cars just frames after the head shot.
> >
> >Kennedy was not blocked by any side glass. The side windows in the car were
> not
> >up. Photos of the motorcade clearly show the President with his elbow resting
> >across the top of the door.
>
> Hello Gil - Yes, this is a major contention of Tony's - that the limo's
> side glass would have prevented a clean shot at JFK from that sewer drain.
> But you know something? Now that you mention it, I too recall JFK adopting
> a posture during the motorcade whereby his right elbow was indeed resting
> upon his door, with no obstruction from any window glass. So I wonder what
> glass Tony is referring to here? Could it be another window on that side
> of the limo that would have obstructed a shot from the sewer drain? Maybe
> Tony can weigh in here Gil, because as I recall it, your observation is right.
> JFK's limo window was indeed down at that time.
>
I was not the first person to point it out. Bob Cutler diagrammed this
in Grassy Knoll Gazette a long time ago. Again, this is why we should be
able to post binaries here. It would be so easy if you could just see
the side glass for yourself. When the parade bar is used, part of it in
the later version of the car was a piece of vertical glass between the
front compartment and the rear compartment. That is what is in the way
of a clear shot from the storm drain at Z-313.
I can post some photos of the limousine and then you should try to
locate the side glass yourself.
http://www.boston.quik.com/amarsh/KNC29112.jpg
http://www.boston.quik.com/amarsh/STC33616.jpg
http://www.boston.quik.com/amarsh/STC336-3.jpg
> Regards,
> O.H. LEE
>
> "Don't believe the so called evidence."
>
> Lee Harvey Oswald to his brother Robert
> Saturday, November 23, 1963
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
AnthonyMarsh
>
> Guys, I think the side window to which Tony refers is actually a small
> one forming the side portion of the larger "privacy" window which
I prefer not to correspond with someone like you, but since you are the
only one here who is currently bringing up the idea of a privacy window,
I am stuck replying to your message.
There was no privacy window on the limousine on 11/22/63.
> separates the front compartment of the car from the rear compartment.
> Although the privacy window itself was not closed, the side glass, just
> in front of Connolly had a permanent slightly curved framed pane about 8
> inches wide and 14 inches high. It clearly shows in several of the
> motorcade photos. This may possibly obstruct a clear view from the storm
> drain at Z313, but not shortly thereafter, when a second frontal shot
> could have occurred.
> Vern
AnthonyMarsh
>
> lazu...@webtv.net (Vern Pascal) wrote:
> >Guys, I think the side window to which Tony refers is actually a small
> >one forming the side portion of the larger "privacy" window which
> >separates the front compartment of the car from the rear compartment.
> >Although the privacy window itself was not closed, the side glass, just
> >in front of Connolly had a permanent slightly curved framed pane about 8
> >inches wide and 14 inches high. It clearly shows in several of the
> >motorcade photos. This may possibly obstruct a clear view from the storm
> >drain at Z313, but not shortly thereafter, when a second frontal shot
> >could have occurred.
> >Vern
>
> Hello Vern - Okay, let's analyze this one aspect at a time. First, as the
> limousine turned onto Elm and began cruising slowly toward where a storm
> drain shooter would have been, such a shooter would have been blocked from
> having a clear shot at JFK merely by the presence of Governor Connally initially,
Different objects block different possible shots at different times. At
some point the windshield itself is in the way of a clear shot.
> as the angle would have been too much "head-on" to see JFK clearly. Okay,
> the Governor was slightly inboard of JFK, so this would have helped some.
> Now, the issue of glass: we know that JFK had no glass whatsoever to his
> immediate right,as his arm often rested on that door, correct? Did the Governor
> also have no glass to his immediate right Vern? In other words, could Connally
The side glass was just in front of Connally to his right.
> have also rested his arm on the top of his door had he wanted to? If so,
> this moves any glass obstructing a potential storm drain sniper appreciably
> forward, giving him an eventual workable angle to JFK sooner rather than
> later. So, where was that glass obstacle with respect to Governor Connally?
The angle was possible at different frames. At Z-312/313 the side glass
blocked a shot from the storm drain.
> Was it just ahead of him, in the form of a wing window, and to his right?
> Kellerman was seated directly ahead of the Governor, correct? Where was the
> side glass in relation to him? A lot of questions Vern, but in any event,
> I'm beginning to think that at some point on Elm, a storm drain shot would
> have been eminently doable, clear of any glass obstacle. At what Z-frame
At several Z-frames before and after Z-312/313.
> this would correspond to I haven't the foggiest right now, but as you say,
> that should be able to be determined. And one other thing. Any shot from
> the storm drain striking JFK would have probably been a tangential strike,
> possibly hitting him just behind the temple and above the right ear. Coincidentally,
> there is indeed some solid evidence pointing to such a strike.
>
> Regards,
> O.H. LEE
>
> "Don't believe the so called evidence."
>
> Lee Harvey Oswald to his brother Robert
> Saturday, November 23, 1963
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
O.H. LEE
Thank you for posting these Tony. I take it that this is the same Lincoln
limo used in Dallas? The glass is rather small, and would have been somewhat
behind Kellerman and to his right. But geez Tony, that small piece of glass
seems as if it would have been well forward of JFK. And keeping in mind that
JFK was sitting on the extreme right hand side, basically hugging the door,
I have to believe that the glass would have been cleared from the angle to
JFK from the storm drain fairly early on as the limo coasted down Elm. You
say that it still would have been a problem at Z-313, and I have no way of
proving otherwise. But to me, it almost seems as though Governor Connally's
position in front of JFK might have presented a greater obstacle and impediment
to the angle a storm drain sniper would have had then that small pane of
window glass, but maybe I'm wrong on this. Anyway, thanks for the picture
posting. It cleared up what glass you were referring to.
John
the left, right, upwards, or downwards to get JFK in the center in all
the photos seen in the page. Gil I customized the photos, and I will
tell you that player was the answer to
what I wanted that I seen in 2 movies "Blade Runner" and "The Spy who
Loves Me" both movies used a device to pan and scan a single frame.
I spent at least 60 hours reviewing the 3 DVDs I had seen and thought
the drain in the Knix film was too far down and to the right. I then
found the drain I seen from a black and white photo shoot of a white
convertible and film members that were enacting the ride. The storm
drain and manhole was right in front and to the left of the traveling
vehicle.
I then searched further and came up with the guy on "The Men Who killed
Kennedy" that said if Oswald was the shooter Mary Moorman would be in
the wrong place, I finally realized the shot was coming from the ground.
He then went to Deally Plaza and discovered the manhole and storm drain
right in front of where Zapruder was filming. I believe now that what he
said was good size part of the title of the 2 DVD set. I also used the
other DVD "Image of a Assassination" on the Tobshiba SD-4800
Gil I got the 1963 storm drain shot from the internet over at google.com
and included the man surveying what he would see looking out of the
storm drain from "The Men who Killed Kennedy". I wanted a color shot of
the 1963 storm drain not black and white. If you know how to grab a
image I give you full permission to 'vid cap' any images of my Pages on
the JFK Assassination.
John
Vern Pascal
"I prefer not to correspond with someone like you"
Don't know what that means. Could it be because I'm a "wacky" CT who
sometimes disagrees with you?
"but since you are the only one who is currently
bringing up the idea of a privacy window, I am stuck replying to your
message.
There was no privacy window on the limousine on 11/22/63."
There was a frame on the limo for an installation of a privacy window.
The point is that there was no glass separating the front compartment
from the rear, which iswhat I was stressing, and that the only
obstructing glass from the storm drain vantage point was the small side
panel near the seatback of the front seat, i.e. in front of JBC. The
obstruction of JFK's head would appear mostly on edge from the front
still allowing some room for the drain shooter for a possible shot at
Z313, but definitely moreso a oment thereafter, when a clear shot was
attainable, but only for a brief span of several Zframes.
Vern
John
make images I have to do it thru a home page to get a URL tag on it for
computer users to use. Here is my *sound* theory that could well be the
absolute way, the kill shot was performed.
http://community.webtv.net/costus/ZapruderFrame274and
John
Gil Jesus
from the rear, which iswhat I was stressing, and that the only
obstructing glass from the storm drain vantage point was the small side
panel near the seatback of the front seat, i.e. in front of JBC. The
obstruction of JFK's head would appear mostly on edge from the front
still allowing some room for the drain shooter for a possible shot at
Z313
GiL: absolutely correct, Vern. There was no glass between the front seat and
the rear seats. If that's Marsh saying that there was glass there, he should
know better.
No video and no photos of the Dallas motorcade depict glass in that frame.
And yes it is possible that the rear head shot moved JFK's head into position
enough for a shooter in the drain to get a "bead" on him.
A difficult shot but not impossible.
Gil Jesus
staircase leading from Elm St. to the Pergola. It is right before the "Fort
Worth Freeway keep right" sign.
A couple of pictures of it are in Groden's the Killing of a President on Page
50-51.
Vern Pascal
all asshole...got it?...Jeff
AnthonyMarsh
Yes, I selected those photos because they show the same configuration as
it was in Dallas. Early versions had a slightly different parade bar
configuration.
> behind Kellerman and to his right. But geez Tony, that small piece of glass
> seems as if it would have been well forward of JFK. And keeping in mind that
> JFK was sitting on the extreme right hand side, basically hugging the door,
> I have to believe that the glass would have been cleared from the angle to
> JFK from the storm drain fairly early on as the limo coasted down Elm. You
Indeed, the angle would be freed up at a much earlier point on Elm
Street. But then the angle of view from the storm drain would have been
impossible. There is a window of opportunity which does not match up
with any possible shots.
> say that it still would have been a problem at Z-313, and I have no way of
> proving otherwise. But to me, it almost seems as though Governor Connally's
> position in front of JFK might have presented a greater obstacle and impediment
> to the angle a storm drain sniper would have had then that small pane of
> window glass, but maybe I'm wrong on this. Anyway, thanks for the picture
> posting. It cleared up what glass you were referring to.
>
> Regards,
> O.H. LEE
>
> "Don't believe the so called evidence."
>
> Lee Harvey Oswald to his brother Robert
> Saturday, November 23, 1963
>
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John
image, plus 38 years+ of my life reading and searching and you dismiss
my silencer theory as nonsense. OMG man Zapruder and the drain were
almost in a direct line, now no windows in the world were seen in the
that centered photo, nor people on the other side of the street. Open
your GD eyes to what is possible and what has more holes in it than a
house made with nails. :-(