On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:20:26 PM UTC+10,
gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:23:27 AM UTC-4,
clarence...@gmail.com wrote:
> > What ruffles my feathers is people making up shit in order win an online debate.
> I don't care about "winning" an on line debate. I'm not here to feed my ego, I'm here to get at the truth.
Great! Then stop making shit up.
> I may not be right all the time, but to suggest that I intentionally try to deceive people is bullshit.
> And I don't make shit up. I post evidence.
Great! Post your evidence that anyone ever said your 31 witnesses conspired to hide the truth.
> Out of the 31 witnesses, there were 12 witnesses on the steps who did not see Oswald outside the building.
>
> Avery Davis ( 22 H 642 )
> Wesley Frazier ( 22 H 647 )
> Carl Jones ( 22 H 657 )
> Roy Lewis ( 22 H 661 )
> Billy Lovelady ( 22 H 662 )
> Judith McCully ( 22 H 663 )
> Joe Molina ( 22 H 664 )
> Madie Reese ( 22 H 669 )
> Pauline Sanders ( 22 H 672 )
> William Shelley ( 22 H 673 )
> Sarah Stanton ( 22 H 679 )
> Otis Williams ( 22 H 683 )
These are all from CE 1381 which I have already explained to you contains answers to 6 specific questions - one being "Did you see Oswald during the shooting". None of them did. Oswald was not out there DURING the shooting. He missed it by seconds.
But I will add that Bily Lovelady was about to name the prerson standing behind him but was cut off before he could. I am not suggesting he was about to name Oswald - he wasn't that stupid. But I AM suggesting that Ball cut him off because he knew Oswald had said he was out there "along with Shelley".
Mr. BALL - Who was with you?
Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me---
Mr. BALL - What was that last name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton.
> The whole "Prayerman" theory is based on the notes of FBI agent James Hosty, who claimed that Oswald said he was outside watching the "P.Parade".
Backasswards.
The PM theory evolved from the Darnell frame - and that was found due to a search for evidence of Oswald being on the first floor and/or outside. The Hosty note was additional support.
> The same James Hosty that destroyed evidence in the case.
Yep. That may have been destructive of the lone nut theory.. He withheld the information about Oswald saying he went out to watch the parade for the same reason. So I agree. He was a piece of shit.
> The same James Hosty that was reprimanded by the Bureau after the assassination.
One of Hoover's scapegoats. Or do you hoinestly believe Hoober thought he should have NOT destroyed notes that may have gone against the LN theory?
> This is your "he said, he said" witness.
> Yeah, he's credible.
There ya go again. Creating another strawman. Mr Integrity you aint.
No, he was NOT credible. A CREDIBLE agent wanting to get the truth out would have put the information about Oswald watching the parade in his fucking report.
> You people make me laugh. On the one hand you cry out to ReOpen the Kennedy Case, the case which I agree the FBI f**ked up badly,
Why do so many Americans swear with letters missing. What the fuck is the difference? We all know what you mean . What is the point of a half-hearted attempt to disguise it., Are we all fucking year olds? Do the ** make it somehow more acceptable in polite society - which this certainly isn't?
So no. YOU make me laugh.
> and on the other hand you cling to what that same f**ked up FBI said about Oswald being outside.
> Did it ever occur to you that Oswald said no such thing ?
No. Why should it? There is a shitload of evidence supporting it.
> Fritz took notes. Do Fritz's notes substantiate Hosty's ?
Yes. Except Fritz made an addition that made it nonsensical.
Fritz note
Claims (getting a) 2nd floor coke when off[icer] came in, THEN
(Went) to 1st floor (and) had lunch, THEN
(Went) out (and stood) with Bill Shelley in front
Hosty note
He went to 2nd floor to get coca cola to eat [sic] with lunch
returned to 1st floor to eat lunch,
then went outside to watch P[resident's] parade."
It should be immediately obvious that both contain the exact same elements, in the same order. Oswald goes to the 2nd floor to get a coke, then goes to the first floor to have lunch and then goes outside to watch. The one difference - Fritz has Officer Baker encountering Oswald when Oswald is on the 2nd floor to get his coke. This is a crucial difference and makes them chalk and cheese because one is exculpatory, the other supports the prosecution - despite the claims of some, This is because the timing issue they cite as exculpatory in getting from the 6th to the 2nd floor was made a non-isuue after the authorities accomplishing the feat in reconstructions.
The insertion of Baker by Fritz means
Either
Baker raced into the building BEFORE the assassination, OR
Oswald decided to grab a coke and have lunch AFTER the assassination and then go out to watch a parade that was now over, while standing near a person who by that person's account, was no longer there, OR
Fritz was "verballing"* Oswald with the intent of both obscuring Oswald's real alibi, and having him agree with a scenario that would have, according to reconstructions, allowed him to get down from the 6th to the 2nd floor within the timeframe set by the authorities.
In short, yes Oswald said it according to both Fritz and Hosty. But they dealt with the covering up the issue differently. Fritz simply changed it slightly to fit HIS scenario and Hosty just left it out of his report altogether.
> I've posted my OPINION that the evidence indicates to me that it wasn't Oswald.
I thought you started out saying you posted evidence?
> That you decided to respond to me for posting an opinion indicates that no matter what screenname you use, you still need to work on your people skills.
LOL
> You just can't stand it when someone expresses an opposing viewpoint.
Nope. I can't stand it when people lie and then double -down by claiming they never lied - even after the lie has been proven.
We'd get along fine if you'd simply deal with me in a more honest fashion.
> That's why I quit your forum months ago. The tone there is one of anger and intolerance.
Well, thanks for sharing.
> You believe whatever you want to believe and I'll believe whatever I want to believe.
> And if you don't like it, that's YOUR problem.
If you lie to me, that is going to become YOUR problem.