Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 8)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From July 2005.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- There was blood spray in all directions
from the two head shots, but most prominently to the left rear from the
grassy knoll shot.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- LOL! You think the "most prominent" amount of
debris seen on the Zapruder Film is to the "left rear" of President
Kennedy's head?? The film supports no such conclusion. Your argument
here is utter folly. In fact, the exact opposite is true.
John and Nellie Connally, sitting in front of JFK, were splattered with
gobs of debris, which is perfectly consistent with the scenario of a
lone gunman firing all the shot from behind the President.
Tell me: Where is this "prominent" amount of debris being blown out the
BACK of JFK's head on the Zapruder Film?
Answer: It ain't there, because it does not exist. If debris was being
expelled fairly equally from two simultaneous head shots, there is no
way we'd see ONLY the huge cloud of debris to the FRONT ONLY of JFK's
head, with NOTHING being expelled at the rear of the head.
It's rather amazing that some conspiracy quacks can look at the same
film as LNers and see the exact OPPOSITE of what really is occurring in
said film....like this "blood spray" example.
There's not a HINT of blood being thrown out the rear of JFK's head on
the Z-Film, and yet the CTer I just quoted above thinks (or so he says)
that MOST of the blood and brain is seen at the rear of the head right
after the fatal gunshot.
~throws hands in air in utter dismay!~
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CTer -- I guess you know that motorcycle officer {Bobby} Hargis was
covered with brain and blood spray, and that Hargis was riding to the
back and left of the limousine, hence in the trajectory of the grassy
knoll shot. How do you explain that Mr. Von Pein?
DVP -- It's quite obvious. The motorcyclists DROVE INTO the blood
cloud. The largest "cloud" of matter definitely is expelled FORWARD of
JFK, and coupled with the stiff breeze blowing from (approx.) north to
south, Officers Hargis and Martin being hit by debris makes perfect
sense within the context of a rear-head-shot scenario.
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CTer -- All the time Oswald thought he was a hero for trying to prevent
the assassination. Do you understand this scenario, Mr. Von Pein?
DVP -- Sure. And it's the second-biggest crock of conspiracy crap I've
ever heard -- with #1 (by far) being: The nonsensical "Patsy Plot" that
these conspirators supposedly arranged well in advance of 11/22/63.
Per the very-widely-accepted CT philosophy, these professional
assassins/plotters supposedly used "Fake Oswalds" all over the place to
implicate only Oswald -- and they "faked" multiple photos of Oswald to
implicate ONLY him -- and then what do these astute plotters do on game
day (November 22)?.....
Instead of utilizing a semi-realistic scheme of just one LHO lookalike
firing from the place where the real Oswald was supposed to be firing
from (the SN window in the TSBD), the architects of this Patsy Plot
seal the failure of their pre-arranged scheme by insisting (per CT
accounts) that MANY DIFFERENT GUNMEN fire upon the target, including
killers located to the FRONT of the target, the precise OPPOSITE
direction from their Patsy's location! ~LOL~
How can anyone not laugh out loud at such idiocy?
And now we have a conspiracist (via the hilariously-absurd comment
quoted above) who wants the world to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald not
only was innocent of shooting JFK -- but this CTer goes one step
further into the Twilight Zone of Conspiracyville by implying that
Oswald was really trying to "prevent the assassination" and, hence,
save JFK from his ultimate fate in Dallas!
It makes me wonder just exactly how deep into the fantasy world of
make-believe "JFK Conspiracy Land" some people are willing to dive.
Pretty deep, it would seem, by the looks of that quoted CTer passage
above. It's absolutely incredible....and downright insulting to the
memory of both John F. Kennedy and Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit.
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CTer -- Did you know that Oswald actually liked Kennedy?
DVP -- That's never really been proven; although I also lean toward
that conclusion of Oswald NOT hating Kennedy.
But it's immaterial when weighed against the physical and
circumstantial evidence that says Oswald committed the crime (plus the
Tippit murder to boot).
It's not necessary whatsoever to establish motive. Who knows what inner
motives were driving that screwball named Lee. Whether he "liked"
Kennedy or not isn't really important. He saw an OPPORTUNITY (a golden
one at that) to strike back at the country/society he DID HATE.
Oswald saw a perfect chance to cut down -- as my main dude Vince
Bugliosi said at the 1986 LHO Docu-Trial -- "the quintessential
representative of a society for which he had a grinding contempt".
What better way to strike back at a country you despise than by killing
its #1 leader (whether you "liked" him personally or not)?
Lee Harvey Oswald did just that.
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CTer -- They did give him {Oswald} a ride away. Oswald was picked up
from Dealey Plaza 10 minutes after the assassination, in a Rambler
station wagon.
DVP -- Then would you care to explain WHY Oswald (minutes after getting
into this Rambler) then gets on a bus and is positively identified by a
woman WHO KNEW HIM ON SIGHT? Kind of odd, wouldn't you say (if his
"Rambler" co-plotter had already picked him up in front of the Book
Depository)?
The "Rambler" theory is downright silly and laughable, in light of what
we KNOW Oswald did just minutes AFTER the supposed Rambler incident.
Most CTers don't even buy the stupid Rambler theory. And if CTers don't
buy it, by golly, it must be a crazy theory. Because they'll believe
pert-near anything (as long as they can take the noose from around
double-murderer Lee Oswald's neck, that is).
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CTer -- The evidence is clear that the body {of the dead John F.
Kennedy} was seized and tampered with.
DVP -- Some nice moody music by Bernard Herrmann might help your
"body-altering" nonsense here.
There is no possible way the body of President Kennedy could have been
altered prior to his autopsy on 11/22/63. It did not happen. I'd sooner
believe the moon is made out of papier-mache.
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CTer -- Good to see you confirm that the backyard photos are indeed
fake.
DVP -- I never admitted any such thing and you know it. And WHY on
Earth would my obvious CT-bashing prior comment stating: "Why would
conspirators feel the need to FAKE and "plant" THREE different
"Backyard Photos" depicting Oswald prior to the assassination, when
zero were really needed?" .... possibly lead you to think that I
believe said photos are fakes. The prior comment obviously indicates
I'm berating the silly idea of fakery in this regard.
And, too, the question IS a valid one -- There would be NO reason to
fake ANY pictures, let alone three or four. That just increases the
chance that any such "fakes" will be discovered. Why wouldn't just one
have sufficed? You, obviously, cannot answer that. Because there would
be NO REASON, under even conspiratorial circumstances, to have faked
multiple photos depicting the EXACT SAME THING.
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CTer -- There is indeed zero evidence to link Oswald to the rifle.
There is neither evidence to link the bullets and shells of the Tippit
murder to Oswald's revolver.
DVP -- You're high as a kite if you believe these two things. Oswald is
tied up 85 ways to Sunday with BOTH the rifle and the revolver (and
shells at the Tippit scene), and you know it.
You just want to deny the shells can be linked to Oswald's gun. And
you're wrong. ALL FOUR shells matched Oswald's gun; with two of them
not going through Officer J.M. Poe's hands either, meaning those two
have a clear and distinct chain of evidence without doubt. (The Poe
shells do as well; but CTers want to muddy the waters via the "Poe
Didn't Mark Them Properly" dodge. But Detective James R. Leavelle knows
they were never marked, because there was no need to mark them. The
evidence bag containing the shells were marked however.)
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CTer -- The HSCA concluded that JFK was murdered as a result of a
conspiracy. Why do you never mention that?
DVP -- Because it was based on the acoustics evidence and NOTHING ELSE
BUT THAT. And that evidence is so full of holes it'll never hold an
ounce of H2O -- and anyone who has studied the case should know it.
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CTer -- Oswald did NOT kill Tippit. A CIA agent of David Atlee Phllips
killed Tippit.
DVP -- You need to see a doctor if you buy that. Given the evidence
that exists, nobody except Oswald could possibly have killed Officer
Tippit.
Witnesses all over the place who pointed to Oswald as Tippit's killer
(witnesses you choose not to believe) -- his gun matched the shells
that he HIMSELF was seen physically dumping from the gun -- and that
same gun was in his possession when the murdering S.O.B. was arrested
inside the Texas Theater (attempting to kill yet another policeman with
it).
Conspiracy buffs who insist upon making Lee Harvey Oswald an innocent
"patsy" in the Tippit murder too shouldn't really be examining this
case at all....because such a kook obviously doesn't know his hands
from his feet. (Sad, but true.)
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CTer -- There is more evidence for the curtain rods, as Oswald said
this himself.
DVP -- And, naturally, without reservation, we should believe anything
spouted by the person who was just arrested for two first-degree
murders, right?
Like when he also said he never owned a rifle, right? Or his little
4-word "I'm just a patsy" gem that came on the heels of a provable lie.
No four words in history have been blown up so far out of proportion
and context than Oswald's "I'm just a patsy" declaration.
I often wonder if all the hubbub about "Patsy-ism" would even have
surfaced if dear sweet Lee had never bellowed his famous four-word
mantra? After all, Oswald wouldn't lie....now would he? He's too good a
man to do something like that. After all, he was trying to SAVE John F.
Kennedy from the real murderers, wasn't he?
~ROFL~
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CTer -- The original plan was to eliminate Oswald much sooner. That
part was screwed up. Hence they {aka, THE MANY
TOTALLY-MADE-UP-OUT-OF-WHOLE-CLOTH
CONSPIRATORS/ASSASSINS/SHOOTERS/HENCHMEN/BAD GUYS} had to improvise
with Ruby to finish the job.
DVP -- Are you looking into your "Conspiracy Crystal Ball" again? You
must be. Because this junk is nothing but utter CT guesswork, without a
shred of proof to validate such malarkey.
And -- What was so HARD about having Ruby (or whoever) just simply wait
for Oswald about a block from the Depository after LHO made his escape
from the building, and then fill him with lead before he got himself
arrested and had ANY chance to spill any beans about anything?
Or: Shoot him dead RIGHT ON THE SIXTH FLOOR. That's an even better
plan. "Stage" LHO's own suicide. Why didn't your crack plotters do
that?
Screwed up, you claim? Yeah, I'd say so. Your plotters were pretty
amateur I'd say. Especially the idea of using gobs of different
shooters to frame the ONE LONE PATSY! Can you just hear the "Grand
Poobah Of Assassination Plots", on November 21, 1963, explaining to his
cohorts how it'll work:
"It'll work out okay, guys; you'll see -- all we need to do is to alter
JFK's 10 potential head wounds before he gets to the hospital, so
nobody can see the frontal-shot stuff! And then all we need to do is
gather up the TEN bullets from the bodies and the car and from Dealey
Plaza and hide them somewhere before any non-plotters see any of 'em!
And then all we need to do after that is to gather up all the many
photos and films that bystanders will no doubt be taking during the
parade, and then alter all of those to eliminate all of the frontal
hits to JFK. That shouldn't be too difficult, right? It'll be a piece
of cake, guys! You'll see! Trust me!"
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CTer -- If Ruby had not been able to do it {kill LHO}, Oswald would
have talked and proven his innocence.
DVP -- LOL! And just exactly WHY didn't he use those 46 hours between
1:50 PM on November 22 and 11:21 AM on November 24 to talk and to
"prove his innocence", and spill any necessary beans re. "the plot"?
You think he "would have talked" and "proven his innocence" -- but ONLY
after a certain number of hours in custody?
He was just "playing" along with the cops and the FBI during his 46
hours in custody, by NOT SAYING A SINGLE WORD ABOUT ANY "PLOT" HE HAD
KNOWLEDGE OF?
That's a hot one!