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David Von Pein Lies About A Downranging Bullet.
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Ben Holmes
Mar 3, 2017, 10:29:01 AM3/3/17
to
David Von Pein:
>>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
Ben Holmes:
>> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
>>
>> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
David Von Pein:
> Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
>
> Ben thinks that this statement....
>
> "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
>
> ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
************************************************
So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
On the 27th of November, the New York Times reported "Dr. Kemp Clark, who pronounced Mr. Kennedy dead, said one bullet struck him at about the necktie knot, "It ranged downward in his chest and did not exit" the surgeon said.
On that same day the New York Herald Tribune stated: "on the basis of accumulated data, investigators have concluded that the first shot fired as the Presidential car was approaching, struck the President in the neck, just above the knot of his necktie, then ranged downward into his body."
CBS, NBC, the BBC, and L'Express quoted Dr. Clark as saying that the bullet had entered Kennedy's neck from in front and entered the chest.
But perhaps all of these don't strike you as "evidence" - so let's look at what is PROVABLY evidence - sworn testimony:
Dr. Clark: Dr. Perry assumed that the findings in the neck were due to penetration of the missile into the chest. For this reason, he requested chest tubes to be placed. (6H28)
Dr. Clark: ... It was the assumption, based on the previously described deviation of the trachea and the presence of blood in the strap muscles of the neck that a wound or missile wound might have entered the President's chest. (6H28)
So who's lying, David?
I'd like you to PUBLICLY RETRACT your lie that there's no evidence for the bullet ranging downward into JFK's chest.
Of course, knowing how dishonest you are, this rebuttal and your retraction will never find it's way on to your many websites...
************************************************
As everyone can see, I cited not only contemporary newspaper accounts where a Parkland doctor was referenced as stating that they believed the bullet that struck the throat ranged downward, I also cited the testimony where the doctor said that as well.
The treatment in the emergency room WAS BASED ON THAT OPINION, but David won't tell you any of this evidence... he'll simply lie and label me a liar.
There *IS* evidence, I've both quoted and cited it.
Sworn testimony IS ONE OF THE DEFINITIONS OF THE WORD "EVIDENCE!"
So the liar is David... and David refuses to retract his despicable claim that I'm the liar on this issue.
That just goes to show his lack of character.
>>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
Ben Holmes:
>> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
>>
>> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
David Von Pein:
> Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
>
> Ben thinks that this statement....
>
> "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
>
> ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
************************************************
So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
On the 27th of November, the New York Times reported "Dr. Kemp Clark, who pronounced Mr. Kennedy dead, said one bullet struck him at about the necktie knot, "It ranged downward in his chest and did not exit" the surgeon said.
On that same day the New York Herald Tribune stated: "on the basis of accumulated data, investigators have concluded that the first shot fired as the Presidential car was approaching, struck the President in the neck, just above the knot of his necktie, then ranged downward into his body."
CBS, NBC, the BBC, and L'Express quoted Dr. Clark as saying that the bullet had entered Kennedy's neck from in front and entered the chest.
But perhaps all of these don't strike you as "evidence" - so let's look at what is PROVABLY evidence - sworn testimony:
Dr. Clark: Dr. Perry assumed that the findings in the neck were due to penetration of the missile into the chest. For this reason, he requested chest tubes to be placed. (6H28)
Dr. Clark: ... It was the assumption, based on the previously described deviation of the trachea and the presence of blood in the strap muscles of the neck that a wound or missile wound might have entered the President's chest. (6H28)
So who's lying, David?
I'd like you to PUBLICLY RETRACT your lie that there's no evidence for the bullet ranging downward into JFK's chest.
Of course, knowing how dishonest you are, this rebuttal and your retraction will never find it's way on to your many websites...
************************************************
As everyone can see, I cited not only contemporary newspaper accounts where a Parkland doctor was referenced as stating that they believed the bullet that struck the throat ranged downward, I also cited the testimony where the doctor said that as well.
The treatment in the emergency room WAS BASED ON THAT OPINION, but David won't tell you any of this evidence... he'll simply lie and label me a liar.
There *IS* evidence, I've both quoted and cited it.
Sworn testimony IS ONE OF THE DEFINITIONS OF THE WORD "EVIDENCE!"
So the liar is David... and David refuses to retract his despicable claim that I'm the liar on this issue.
That just goes to show his lack of character.
Bud
Mar 4, 2017, 10:03:30 AM3/4/17
to
On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 10:29:01 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> David Von Pein:
> >>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
>
>
> Ben Holmes:
> >> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
> >>
> >> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
>
> David Von Pein:
> > Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
> >
> > Ben thinks that this statement....
> >
> > "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
> >
> > ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
>
> Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
> ************************************************
> So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
I`m calling you stupid for not understanding what Kemp Clark meant by what he said.
> David Von Pein:
> >>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
>
>
> Ben Holmes:
> >> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
> >>
> >> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
>
> David Von Pein:
> > Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
> >
> > Ben thinks that this statement....
> >
> > "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
> >
> > ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
>
> Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
> ************************************************
> So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
> On the 27th of November, the New York Times reported "Dr. Kemp Clark, who pronounced Mr. Kennedy dead, said one bullet struck him at about the necktie knot, "It ranged downward in his chest and did not exit" the surgeon said.
>
> On that same day the New York Herald Tribune stated: "on the basis of accumulated data, investigators have concluded that the first shot fired as the Presidential car was approaching, struck the President in the neck, just above the knot of his necktie, then ranged downward into his body."
>
> CBS, NBC, the BBC, and L'Express quoted Dr. Clark as saying that the bullet had entered Kennedy's neck from in front and entered the chest.
>
> But perhaps all of these don't strike you as "evidence" - so let's look at what is PROVABLY evidence - sworn testimony:
>
> Dr. Clark: Dr. Perry assumed that the findings in the neck were due to penetration of the missile into the chest. For this reason, he requested chest tubes to be placed. (6H28)
>
> Dr. Clark: ... It was the assumption, based on the previously described deviation of the trachea and the presence of blood in the strap muscles of the neck that a wound or missile wound might have entered the President's chest. (6H28)
>
> So who's lying, David?
>
> I'd like you to PUBLICLY RETRACT your lie that there's no evidence for the bullet ranging downward into JFK's chest.
>
> Of course, knowing how dishonest you are, this rebuttal and your retraction will never find it's way on to your many websites...
> ************************************************
>
> As everyone can see, I cited not only contemporary newspaper accounts where a Parkland doctor was referenced as stating that they believed the bullet that struck the throat ranged downward,
> I also cited the testimony where the doctor said that as well.
> The treatment in the emergency room WAS BASED ON THAT OPINION,
Ben Holmes
Mar 4, 2017, 11:04:26 AM3/4/17
to
On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 7:03:30 AM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 10:29:01 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > David Von Pein:
> > >>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
> >
> >
> > Ben Holmes:
> > >> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
> > >>
> > >> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
> >
> > David Von Pein:
> > > Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
> > >
> > > Ben thinks that this statement....
> > >
> > > "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
> > >
> > > ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
> >
> > Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
> > ************************************************
> > So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
>
> I`m calling you stupid for not understanding what Kemp Clark meant by what he said.
What a kook!
> On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 10:29:01 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > David Von Pein:
> > >>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
> >
> >
> > Ben Holmes:
> > >> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
> > >>
> > >> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
> >
> > David Von Pein:
> > > Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
> > >
> > > Ben thinks that this statement....
> > >
> > > "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
> > >
> > > ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
> >
> > Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
> > ************************************************
> > So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
>
> I`m calling you stupid for not understanding what Kemp Clark meant by what he said.
Another OBVIOUS lie pointed out, and you're quite desperate to defend it.
Bud
Mar 4, 2017, 1:02:39 PM3/4/17
to
Ben Holmes
Mar 4, 2017, 1:16:36 PM3/4/17
to
This isn't about provable factual history.
This is whether or not EVIDENCE EXISTS for a particular event. David labeled me a liar, and stated that there was "NO" evidence.
I've provided that evidence...
That makes you and David liars.
"There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." Proverbs 6:16-19
Bud
Mar 4, 2017, 1:31:07 PM3/4/17
to
On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 1:16:36 PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 10:02:39 AM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 11:04:26 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 7:03:30 AM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 10:29:01 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > > David Von Pein:
> > > > > >>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ben Holmes:
> > > > > >> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Von Pein:
> > > > > > Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ben thinks that this statement....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
> > > > > ************************************************
> > > > > So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
> > > >
> > > > I`m calling you stupid for not understanding what Kemp Clark meant by what he said.
> > >
> > > What a kook!
> > >
> > > Another OBVIOUS lie pointed out, and you're quite desperate to defend it.
> >
> > All you need to do is tell us what Kemp meant when he used the word "might" in the sentence you quoted.
>
> No, I don't.
>
> This isn't about provable factual history.
If you want to use what the witness said in support of an idea you have to use what the witness actually said.
> On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 10:02:39 AM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 11:04:26 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 7:03:30 AM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 10:29:01 AM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > > David Von Pein:
> > > > > >>> What caused the bullet hole in JFK's throat [if it wasn't caused by a bullet exiting his throat]? And where did that bullet go? And why wasn't it in JFK's body at autopsy?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ben Holmes:
> > > > > >> The wound in JFK's throat was exactly what the doctors who saw it originally thought...an entry wound. That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It wasn't in JFK's body at the autopsy because it was pulled out in the pre-autopsy autopsy that took place between 6:40 and 8:00pm.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Von Pein:
> > > > > > Please note the multiple lies uttered by Ben Holmes above:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ben thinks that this statement....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "That bullet ranged downward toward JFK's chest."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...is "SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE" in this case. Of course Ben is lying, because such a desperate theory put forth by Ben is most certainly NOT supported by the "evidence" in this case at all. There is NO evidence that any bullet "ranged downward toward JFK's chest". None. Ben is engaging in nothing but blatant speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing more. (As per usual.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's my first response that DAVID KNEW ABOUT WHEN HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE!
> > > > > ************************************************
> > > > > So you're calling Kemp Clark, one of the doctors in attendance, a liar?
> > > >
> > > > I`m calling you stupid for not understanding what Kemp Clark meant by what he said.
> > >
> > > What a kook!
> > >
> > > Another OBVIOUS lie pointed out, and you're quite desperate to defend it.
> >
> > All you need to do is tell us what Kemp meant when he used the word "might" in the sentence you quoted.
>
> No, I don't.
>
> This isn't about provable factual history.
> This is whether or not EVIDENCE EXISTS for a particular event. David labeled me a liar, and stated that there was "NO" evidence.
If you go to a doctor they might order certain test to determine your problem. This is not evidence that he *believes* you have any of the ailments being tested for, only that he sees them as possibilities.
Conspiracy retards always have problems with qualifiers. They are important, because they often change the entire meaning.
> I've provided that evidence...
>
> That makes you and David liars.
>
> "There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." Proverbs 6:16-19
Ben Holmes
Mar 4, 2017, 2:15:43 PM3/4/17
to
This is really very simple - and you want to confuse the facts.
Was there evidence that a bullet struck JFK's throat, then ranged downward into his chest?
The answer is quite clearly *YES*.
It doesn't matter *AT ALL* whether or not you believe that a bullet ACTUALLY struck JFK's throat, and ACTUALLY ranged downward.
The issue is the presence or absence of evidence.
You're a liar to suggest that there existed no evidence... as is David.
Bud
Mar 4, 2017, 3:37:44 PM3/4/17
to
> The answer is quite clearly *YES*.
> It doesn't matter *AT ALL* whether or not you believe that a bullet ACTUALLY struck JFK's throat, and ACTUALLY ranged downward.
> The issue is the presence or absence of evidence.
> You're a liar to suggest that there existed no evidence... as is David.
Ben Holmes
Mar 4, 2017, 3:54:18 PM3/4/17
to
Quite despicable of you, really...
Bud
Mar 4, 2017, 4:41:50 PM3/4/17
to
Ben Holmes
Mar 4, 2017, 5:23:07 PM3/4/17
to
I've both quoted & cited evidence that you and David claim doesn't exist.
Nothing you can say can get around that basic fact.
You're a liar, as is David.
Bud
Mar 4, 2017, 6:55:07 PM3/4/17
to
> I've both quoted & cited evidence that you and David claim doesn't exist.
Ben Holmes
Mar 4, 2017, 7:57:09 PM3/4/17
to
Bud
Mar 4, 2017, 8:02:51 PM3/4/17
to
Now, if I say you *might* be retarded, am I saying you are retarded or am I saying you are not retarded?
Ben Holmes
Mar 4, 2017, 9:08:44 PM3/4/17
to
ROTFLMAO!!!
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