David Von Pein IS A PROVABLE LIAR (Citations Included!)

[Ben Holmes]

David Von Pein asserts:
> The fact is this -- Nobody knows for certain whether Oswald listed
> Hidell on the Dallas P.O. Box [#2915] form or not. The likelihood is
> that he probably DID list that name, but the portion of the application
> that revealed such information was discarded after Oswald closed out
> the box.
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/post-office-applications.html

Unfortunately for this forum's rather wicked liar... that's not what the evidence shows... I invite everyone to turn to CE 2585, and zip down to page 4, where it states:

12. CLAIM: The Post Office Box in Dallas to which Oswald had the rifle mailed was kept under both his name and that of "A. Hidell" Page 111.

INVESTIGATION: Our investigation has revealed that Oswald did not indicate on his application that others, including an "A. Hidell," would receive mail through the box in question, which was Post Office Box 2915 in Dallas. This box was obtained by Oswald on October 9, 1962, and relinquished by him on May 14, 1963.

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2585.pdf

THIS IS THE EVIDENCE!!! And David Von Pein is perfectly aware of it - YET HE BLATANTLY AND OUTRAGEOUSLY POSTS AN ASSERTION THAT IS COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO THIS KNOWN EVIDENCE!!

David Von Pein is a proven liar.

And since he'll ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to acknowledge that he's been caught lying, he's a coward too...

[David Von Pein]

Harry Holmes' testimony is EVIDENCE too (as you, yourself have emphasized over and over again---i.e., TESTIMONY IS EVIDENCE!)....

And here's what Harry D. Holmes said in that TESTIMONY....

Mr. HOLMES. ...And they tear off 3 and throw it away. It has no more purpose. That is what happened on box 2915.
Mr. LIEBELER. They have thrown part 3 away?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes; as it so happens, even though they closed the box in New Orleans, they still had part 3 and it showed that the mail for Marina Oswald and A. J. Hidell was good in the box. They hadn't complied with regulations. They still had it there.
Mr. LIEBELER. It was a lucky thing.
Mr. HOLMES. We wish they had here.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now is this regulation that says section 3 should be torn off and thrown away, is that a general regulation of the Post Office Department?
Mr. HOLMES. It is in the Post Office Manual Instructions to employees; yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. So there is no way, as I understand it, to tell from the records maintained, as far as you know anyway, who was authorized to receive mail at Post Office Box 2915 that Oswald had while he was here in Dallas before he went to New Orleans in April of 1963; is that correct?
Mr. HOLMES. Other than Oswald himself and his name on the application.
Mr. LIEBELER. Right.

-------------

Ergo, there's a conflict between CE2585 and Harry Holmes' testimony. CTers, naturally, believe CE2585 (even though those same CTers wouldn't trust the FBI any further than they could throw them; go figure the irony there).....LNers, OTOH, usually prefer Harry Holmes' statements under oath to the WC.

So there's a built-in contradiction which B. Holmes knows can never be fully cleared up. And yet B. Holmers will pretend there's no conflict at all. And B. Holmes will totally dismiss the testimony (i.e., EVIDENCE) of H. Holmes.

And yet I am a "liar" and a "coward"---even though Kook Holmes KNOWS about H. Holmes' testimony which totally contradicts Commission Exhibit No. 2585.

Holmes (of the Ben persuasion) is utterly pathetic. (As always.)

[Ben Holmes]

No, Holmes' testimony DOES NOT CONFLICT with the FBI's...

You see, the FBI's assertions MUST BE COMPLETE LIES if the part three were actually missing AT THAT TIME.

But everyone is telling the truth IF THE FBI DIDN'T HAND OVER THIS EVIDENCE TO THE WARREN COMMISSION.

Or if the Warren Commission 'deep-sixed' it.

It's quite clear that the earliest evidence, the evidence CONTRARY TO THE WARREN COMMISSION'S THEORY, was that the FBI viewed part three, and saw no other names.

You knew this, and lied about it on your website...

It's *STILL* a lie - and you refuse to correct your website to tell the truth. There's NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that part three held a name, and SOLID EVIDENCE THAT IT DID NOT.

You're simply lying... and, as I predicted, refuse to address that lie.

Harry Holmes in no way refutes what the FBI saw... that would only be possible if it were AT THE SAME TIME as the FBI was examining the document.

Indeed, Harry Holmes' testimony merely demonstrates that what at one time existed, and had been examined, no longer existed... whether due to the FBI not passing it along, or whether someone on the Warren Commission flushed it down the toilet.

So your lies are quite transparent indeed... and I suspect that now you'll slink away - and refuse to explain why your website is lying...

[Jason Burke]

> Ergo, there's a conflict between CE2585 and Harry Holmes' testimony. CTers, naturally, believe CE2585 (even though those same CTers wouldn't trust the FBI any further than they could throw them; go figure the irony there)......LNers, OTOH, usually prefer Harry Holmes' statements under oath to the WC.

>
> So there's a built-in contradiction which B. Holmes knows can never be fully cleared up. And yet B. Holmers will pretend there's no conflict at all. And B. Holmes will totally dismiss the testimony (i.e., EVIDENCE) of H. Holmes.
>
> And yet I am a "liar" and a "coward"---even though Kook Holmes KNOWS about H. Holmes' testimony which totally contradicts Commission Exhibit No. 2585.
>
> Holmes (of the Ben persuasion) is utterly pathetic. (As always.)
>

I *honestly* don't understand how Holmie-boy's mama got 99% of the brain
with that rusty coat hanger and yet he can still type.

He never makes a valid - or even rational - statement, of course. But
them there ten fingers do seem to work together.

[conantheco...@gmail.com]

Ben Holmes

There is a vast difference between being incorrect and being a "provable liar." I have also never seen a satisfactory answer as to why a postal inspector (Harry Holmes....any relation?) was interrogating Oswald shortly before his death.

On the other hand, Ben Holmes, you are without a doubt a provable liar, coward, and despicable scumbag. DVP is just wrong.

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:03:21 AM UTC-7, conantheco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ben Holmes
>
> There is a vast difference between being incorrect and being a
> "provable liar."

Absolutely.

Once you PROVABLY know that you're wrong, and you refuse to retract or correct your website giving the wrong information, then you're PROVABLY A LIAR.

It's really just as simple as that.

> I have also never seen a satisfactory answer as to why a postal
> inspector (Harry Holmes....any relation?) was interrogating Oswald
> shortly before his death.

It's simple... the post office was needed in order to provide the forged evidence needed to frame the patsy.

Harry Holmes was almost certainly instrumental in the top secret HT/Lingual program as well.

Tell us "Conan" - can you tell us how the HT/Lingual program managed to miss a rifle?

> On the other hand, Ben Holmes, you are without a doubt a provable liar, coward, and despicable scumbag. DVP is just wrong.

And yet, you can't quote ANYTHING I've said, then CITE THE EVIDENCE that shows I'm lying... as I've just done for David Von Pein.

Interestingly, you're still running from the question of what causes 'First Frame Flash'... I understand *why* you're running, if you answered it, it would prove that *YOU* are a blatant liar.

[conantheco...@gmail.com]

Ben Holmes

If Harry Holmes was part of the H/T Lingual program (and that is certainly a real possibility) he still would not have jurisdiction to interrogate a subject about a murder. It would be nice to know what compelled Harry Holmes to rush on Sunday morning to interrogate Oswald shortly before he was murdered. Could it be a separate investigation from the assassination?

[Ben Holmes]

Tut tut tut "Conan."

Don't pretend to have the right to engage in a debate if you're too cowardly to answer questions.

What's the cause of 'First Frame Flash?' (That's number six, in case you lost count.)

[conantheco...@gmail.com]

Your the only one that is too cowardly to debate. Your pointless question has already been answered. Why are you such a pussy?

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:16:44 AM UTC-7, conantheco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Your the only one that is too cowardly to debate. Your pointless question
> has already been answered. Why are you such a pussy?

You're on record *TODAY* as stating that you've not answered the question because it's of no interest to you... yet now you claim you've answered it.

So simply 'cut & paste' the answer, and put it right here:

(In case you forgot, here's the question again: "What's the cause of 'first frame flash?'... that's number 7.)

[David Von Pein]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 12:52:50 PM UTC-4, conantheco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ben Holmes
>
> If Harry Holmes was part of the H/T Lingual program (and that is certainly a real possibility) he still would not have jurisdiction to interrogate a subject about a murder. It would be nice to know what compelled Harry Holmes to rush on Sunday morning to interrogate Oswald shortly before he was murdered. Could it be a separate investigation from the assassination?

Harry Holmes (partially) answers that question in his WC testimony (shown below). I think Harry felt "connected" to the case (and to Oswald) because of the fact that the murder weapon was sent THROUGH THE U.S. MAIL via Harry's Postal Department. So the "connection" is readily apparent.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Just what was the occasion of your joining this interrogation? How did you happen to be there?

Mr. HOLMES. I had been in and out of Captain Fritz' office on numerous occasions during this 2 1/2-day period. On this morning I had no appointment. I actually started to church with my wife. I got to church and I said, "You get out, I am going down and see if I can do something for Captain Fritz. I imagine he is as sleepy as I am." So I drove directly on down to the police station and walked in, and as I did, Captain Fritz motioned to me and said, "We are getting ready to have a last interrogation with Oswald before we transfer him to the county jail. Would you like to join us?" I said, "I would."

[conantheco...@gmail.com]

David Von Pein

His response does very little to explain his access to a murder investigation (particularly the assassination of a President) in his capacity as a postal inspector.

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:20:52 AM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 12:52:50 PM UTC-4, conantheco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Ben Holmes
> >
> > If Harry Holmes was part of the H/T Lingual program (and that is certainly a real possibility) he still would not have jurisdiction to interrogate a subject about a murder. It would be nice to know what compelled Harry Holmes to rush on Sunday morning to interrogate Oswald shortly before he was murdered. Could it be a separate investigation from the assassination?
>
> Harry Holmes (partially) answers that question in his WC testimony (shown below). I think Harry felt "connected" to the case (and to Oswald) because of the fact that the murder weapon was sent THROUGH THE U.S. MAIL via Harry's Postal Department. So the "connection" is readily apparent.

Of course, David has no answer for why HT/Lingual never spotted something as large as a rifle coming through his mail.

This **WAS** a mail intercept program... how did they miss a rifle?

The alleged critic "Conan" won't ask this question...

[conantheco...@gmail.com]

Ben Holmes

Why do you think a rifle was missed? That is sure what it sounds like you are saying.

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 3:26:31 PM UTC-7, conantheco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ben Holmes
>
> Why do you think a rifle was missed? That is sure what it sounds like you are saying.

If you're trying to imply that HT/Lingual knew that Oswald received a rifle at P.O. Box 2915 - then it's up to you to cite for it.

But you won't... you're lying again.

[David Von Pein]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 5:37:28 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:20:52 AM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 12:52:50 PM UTC-4, conantheco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Ben Holmes
> > >
> > > If Harry Holmes was part of the H/T Lingual program (and that is certainly a real possibility) he still would not have jurisdiction to interrogate a subject about a murder. It would be nice to know what compelled Harry Holmes to rush on Sunday morning to interrogate Oswald shortly before he was murdered. Could it be a separate investigation from the assassination?
> >
> > Harry Holmes (partially) answers that question in his WC testimony (shown below). I think Harry felt "connected" to the case (and to Oswald) because of the fact that the murder weapon was sent THROUGH THE U.S. MAIL via Harry's Postal Department. So the "connection" is readily apparent.
>
>
> Of course, David has no answer for why HT/Lingual never spotted something as large as a rifle coming through his mail.
>

As usual, the CTer has decided to focus his attention on all the wrong information. Regardless of "why HT/Lingual never spotted something as large as a rifle coming through his [H. Holmes'] mail", the fact remains (without question for sensible people) that the C2766 Carcano rifle WAS mailed to P.O. Box 2915 in Dallas by Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago, which was a shipment that was generated after Klein's received an order in the mail from "A. Hidell" of "P.O. Box 2915 in Dallas".

And there is no evidence that the C2766 rifle was ever returned to Klein's by the post office.

Therefore, the rifle was definitely shipped to Oswald's P.O. Box by Klein's. And it MUST have been picked up by somebody at the Dallas Post Office.

Now, who do you suppose that person was who picked up that gun?

CTers have trouble with that last question....because CTers refuse to accept reality --- i.e., that Lee Harvey Oswald ordered a rifle from Klein's in March of '63 and, quite naturally, that same person who ordered that gun (Oswald) picked it up at the P.O. Box to which he had it sent. It's kindergarten math. But for CTers, it's an enduring mystery. Go figure.

"Common Sense Quote Of The Day".....

"Who in the heck orders something by mail-order, and has it sent to his post office box, but then doesn't even bother to pick it up?" -- David Von Pein; December 1, 2011

http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/18411-where-is-the-checkmo-for-oswalds-10/&page=9#comment-239831

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 3:32:02 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 5:37:28 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:20:52 AM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 12:52:50 PM UTC-4, conantheco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > Ben Holmes
> > > >
> > > > If Harry Holmes was part of the H/T Lingual program (and that is certainly a real possibility) he still would not have jurisdiction to interrogate a subject about a murder. It would be nice to know what compelled Harry Holmes to rush on Sunday morning to interrogate Oswald shortly before he was murdered. Could it be a separate investigation from the assassination?
> > >
> > > Harry Holmes (partially) answers that question in his WC testimony (shown below). I think Harry felt "connected" to the case (and to Oswald) because of the fact that the murder weapon was sent THROUGH THE U.S. MAIL via Harry's Postal Department. So the "connection" is readily apparent.
> >
> >
> > Of course, David has no answer for why HT/Lingual never spotted something as large as a rifle coming through his mail.
> >
>
> As usual, the CTer has decided to focus his attention on all the wrong information.

The "wrong information" that you cannot explain.

Remember folks - I PREDICTED IT... David has NO ANSWER for why HT/Lingual never spotted a rifle coming through the mail.

> Regardless of "why HT/Lingual never spotted something as large as a rifle coming through his [H. Holmes'] mail", the fact remains (without question for sensible people) that the C2766 Carcano rifle WAS mailed to P.O. Box 2915 in Dallas by Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago, which was a shipment that was generated after Klein's received an order in the mail from "A. Hidell" of "P.O. Box 2915 in Dallas".

And "paid" by a money order that was never endorse by any bank.

Riiiigggghhhhtttt.....

You merely presume what you cannot show by the evidence.

> And there is no evidence that the C2766 rifle was ever returned to Klein's by the post office.
>
> Therefore, the rifle was definitely shipped to Oswald's P.O. Box by Klein's. And it MUST have been picked up by somebody at the Dallas Post Office.

Nope.

Doesn't follow at all.

You're merely presuming what you cannot prove.

> Now, who do you suppose that person was who picked up that gun?
>
> CTers have trouble with that last question....because CTers refuse to accept reality --- i.e., that Lee Harvey Oswald ordered a rifle from Klein's in March of '63 and, quite naturally, that same person who ordered that gun (Oswald) picked it up at the P.O. Box to which he had it sent. It's kindergarten math. But for CTers, it's an enduring mystery. Go figure.

HT/Lingual... intercepted, copied, and read all mail that Oswald sent or received... which is undoubtedly why Harry Holmes was such a strange figure in this case...

And this is the case of the dog that didn't bark.

Yet David can't explain that.

Indeed, this case is ABSOLUTELY CHOCK FULL of contradicting evidence... which really shouldn't be the case.

> "Common Sense Quote Of The Day".....

Of course, the moment you hear "common sense" coming from a believer, you *KNOW* that he's lying about the evidence...

> "Who in the heck orders something by mail-order, and has it sent to his post office box, but then doesn't even bother to pick it up?" -- David Von Pein; December 1, 2011

Speculation... followed by more speculation... will always present you with a nonsensical "answer."

More commonly known in the computer field by the acronym "GIGO"

[Ben Holmes]

Anyone notice that David hasn't even addressed the original post?

Here it is again: