For Bud -- Hill couldn't have been shouting out the finding of the shells

[donald willis]

According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)

Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.

Next, check the Warren Report, page 79: "Searching that area [Mooney] found at approximately 1:12pm three empty cartridge cases on the floor near the window."

It's in the Warren Report! It says the shells were found about 1:12. Therefore, Hill could not have been talking about shells before 1:05. Could the WR have made a mistake?

Are you, Bud, going to challenge the WR? Are you a closet CT?

[Bud]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)

So?

> Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.

Doesn`t follow.

Actual logic looks like this...

"Since Hill yelled down about the finding of the shells, the shells were found before he yelled down."

> Next, check the Warren Report, page 79: "Searching that area [Mooney] found at approximately 1:12pm three empty cartridge cases on the floor near the window."

And since Hill yelled down about the finding of the shells his yelling down must have occurred after.

> It's in the Warren Report! It says the shells were found about 1:12. Therefore, Hill could not have been talking about shells before 1:05. Could the WR have made a mistake?

Facts are stubborn things, Don. I supplied proof of Hill indicating where the shells were found.

This kills your ideas.

> Are you, Bud, going to challenge the WR? Are you a closet CT?

Your imagination runs wild. This is common with conspiracy folks, they give more weight to the things they imagine than what can be shown.

[donald willis]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> So?
> > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.
> Doesn`t follow.

On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.

dcw

[John Corbett]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> > So?
> > > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.

This is Don looking at the wrong things.

> > Doesn`t follow.
> On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.

This is Don looking at the wrong things incorrectly. There is no reason Hill could not have
shouted down after the window was open. You make the illogical assumption that Hill opened
the window in order to shout down. You fail to consider the possibility that the Hill went to a
window that was already open in order to shout down.

[Bud]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> > So?
> > > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.
> > Doesn`t follow.
> On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.

No, it doesn`t follow. You aren`t establishing any connection between the two things, let alone a chronology.

[donald willis]

I'm afraid, yes, I took Trasks' word for it that Hill himself opened the window ("the window Sgt. Hill had opened" p523), but double-checking him with Hill's testimony, I see that he didn't say that he opened the window (v7p46). Yes, Trask & I failed to consider that possibility...

[donald willis]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> > > So?
> > > > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.
> > > Doesn`t follow.
> > On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.
> No, it doesn`t follow. You aren`t establishing any connection between the two things, let alone a chronology.

Yes, as I told Corbett, I took Trask's word for it, in "Pictures of the Pain", that Hill opened the window, but Hill did not say that he did.

Curious, though--about what time do you think that Hill shouted?

[Bud]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 4:43:29 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> > > > So?
> > > > > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.
> > > > Doesn`t follow.
> > > On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.
> > No, it doesn`t follow. You aren`t establishing any connection between the two things, let alone a chronology.
> Yes, as I told Corbett, I took Trask's word for it, in "Pictures of the Pain", that Hill opened the window, but Hill did not say that he did.
>
> Curious, though--about what time do you think that Hill shouted?

I leave that sort of trivia for conspiracy folks. The guy on the ground who heard Hill say about the shells was named Joseph Stephen “Steve” Pieringer. He worked for KRLD-TV, but was broadcasting over the radio station at the time. If you are really interested you could try DVP`s blog to find the original transmissions, he has all that. In fact I was looking on there last night. I found the footage, but it wouldn`t play for me, it only spun...

http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2012/03/krld-radio.html

But since I`m a nice guy, I will give you a gift. Here is Pieringer`s death notice. Some people posted photos, you should read the captions on them, there is information there for you to exploit.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/107867081/joseph-stephen-pieringer

I`ll see if you can find it. One thing I will say, he was 22 at the time of the assassination, he looks fifty.

[Bud]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 5:36:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 4:43:29 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > > > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> > > > > So?
> > > > > > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.
> > > > > Doesn`t follow.
> > > > On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.
> > > No, it doesn`t follow. You aren`t establishing any connection between the two things, let alone a chronology.
> > Yes, as I told Corbett, I took Trask's word for it, in "Pictures of the Pain", that Hill opened the window, but Hill did not say that he did.
> >
> > Curious, though--about what time do you think that Hill shouted?
> I leave that sort of trivia for conspiracy folks. The guy on the ground who heard Hill say about the shells was named Joseph Stephen “Steve” Pieringer. He worked for KRLD-TV, but was broadcasting over the radio station at the time. If you are really interested you could try DVP`s blog to find the original transmissions, he has all that. In fact I was looking on there last night. I found the footage, but it wouldn`t play for me, it only spun...
>
> http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2012/03/krld-radio.html

I found the tape on youtube...

https://youtu.be/vVTCekvuP1g

You can hear the part about the shells at 21:20, although there might have been an earlier broadcast about the shells while the national news had control of the broadcast. I don`t know what on the tape can be used to timestamp when Hill hollered down.

[Sky Throne 19efppp]

Of course Hill did not open the window. He had not gone into the building. And Pieringer did not see Hill hollering out a window. If he had, he would have taken some film of it and would have looked up and said, "It was that window right there, on the 6th floor," instead of, "It looked like the 4th floor." And then he would have looked over to the street sign and said, "In the Texas School Book Depository Building at Elm and Houston," instead of "Elm and Field." Just how stupid was Steve Pieringer?

[donald willis]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:36:17 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 4:43:29 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > > > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> > > > > So?
> > > > > > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.
> > > > > Doesn`t follow.
> > > > On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.
> > > No, it doesn`t follow. You aren`t establishing any connection between the two things, let alone a chronology.
> > Yes, as I told Corbett, I took Trask's word for it, in "Pictures of the Pain", that Hill opened the window, but Hill did not say that he did.
> >
> > Curious, though--about what time do you think that Hill shouted?
> I leave that sort of trivia for conspiracy folks. The guy on the ground who heard Hill say about the shells was named Joseph Stephen “Steve” Pieringer. He worked for KRLD-TV, but was broadcasting over the radio station at the time. If you are really interested you could try DVP`s blog to find the original transmissions, he has all that. In fact I was looking on there last night. I found the footage, but it wouldn`t play for me, it only spun...
>
> http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2012/03/krld-radio.html
>
> But since I`m a nice guy, I will give you a gift. Here is Pieringer`s death notice. Some people posted photos, you should read the captions on them, there is information there for you to exploit.
>
> https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/107867081/joseph-stephen-pieringer
>
> I`ll see if you can find it. One thing I will say, he was 22 at the time of the assassination, he looks fifty.

"Fourth floor". Perhaps he was mistaken about what Hill said, too.

[Bud]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/2b/e0/9f2be0cb4046c3f4d82a79b44192b43b.jpg

> And Pieringer did not see Hill hollering out a window. If he had, he would have taken some film of it and would have looked up and said, "It was that window right there, on the 6th floor," instead of, "It looked like the 4th floor."

Perhaps it is your expectations that are faulty.

> And then he would have looked over to the street sign and said, "In the Texas School Book Depository Building at Elm and Houston," instead of "Elm and Field." Just how stupid was Steve Pieringer?

Smart enough to take note of where Hill indicated the shells were. That make him smarter than you.

[Bud]

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:22:19 AM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:36:17 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 4:43:29 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 2:26:04 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:03:26 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:16:44 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> > > > > > > According to Trask, in "Pictures of the Pain", "A photograph showing the Book Depository with the window Sgt. Hill had opened... also includes the Hertz sign on the roof. It shows the time as 1:05." (p523)
> > > > > > So?
> > > > > > > Hill, then, was shouting before 1:05.
> > > > > > Doesn`t follow.
> > > > > On what planet doesn't it follow? If the window Hill opened was seen to have been opened by 1:05, then it follows that he shouted down before that time.
> > > > No, it doesn`t follow. You aren`t establishing any connection between the two things, let alone a chronology.
> > > Yes, as I told Corbett, I took Trask's word for it, in "Pictures of the Pain", that Hill opened the window, but Hill did not say that he did.
> > >
> > > Curious, though--about what time do you think that Hill shouted?
> > I leave that sort of trivia for conspiracy folks. The guy on the ground who heard Hill say about the shells was named Joseph Stephen “Steve” Pieringer. He worked for KRLD-TV, but was broadcasting over the radio station at the time. If you are really interested you could try DVP`s blog to find the original transmissions, he has all that. In fact I was looking on there last night. I found the footage, but it wouldn`t play for me, it only spun...
> >
> > http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2012/03/krld-radio.html
> >
> > But since I`m a nice guy, I will give you a gift. Here is Pieringer`s death notice. Some people posted photos, you should read the captions on them, there is information there for you to exploit.
> >
> > https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/107867081/joseph-stephen-pieringer
> >
> > I`ll see if you can find it. One thing I will say, he was 22 at the time of the assassination, he looks fifty.
> "Fourth floor". Perhaps he was mistaken about what Hill said, too.

How does that follow?

On the ground he just happened to say "shells" right were shells were said to be found?

[Sky Throne 19efppp]

He said they were on the 4th floor, Moron.

[Bud]

Did he state that as a fact?

[Sky Throne 19efppp]

Of course, you just cherry pick any "facts" that fit up your ass.

[Bud]

I look at the right things, correctly. If everyone could do this there would be no conspiracy hobbyists.

Your sandcastle has been kicked over by the facts I laid out, you kids will have to build a new one.

[Sky Throne 19efppp]

I bet your dead whore of a mother is very proud of you, looking up from the pits of hell.

[Bud]

<snicker> Wow, you really are upset I kicked your sandcastle over. It`s fine, you can build another one. It is easy when you aren`t constrained by facts or reason.

[Ben Holmes]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 14:36:15 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
wrote:

>> Curious, though--about what time do you think that Hill shouted?
>
> I leave that sort of trivia for conspiracy folks.

No, actually you're PROVABLY lying right now. You've made
extraordinary and desperate attempts to assert not only *what* he
shouted, but when he shouted it.

Yet you offer nothing for your empty claims.

[Ben Holmes]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 07:52:40 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
wrote:

> I look at the right things, correctly. If everyone could do this there would be no conspiracy hobbyists.

Of course, everytime Chickenshit tells this whopper, people are gonna
laugh...

Chickenshit has **NEVER** cited any authority that describes any
process by which he figures out what are the "right things" ... or how
to look at them "correctly."

So no-one can duplicate his thinking process.

All anyone can do is accept the WCR 100% to ensure that they are
"looking at the right things, correctly."

And that's simply begging the question.

[Ben Holmes]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 09:07:17 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
wrote:

> <snicker> Wow, you really are upset I kicked your sandcastle over.
> It`s fine, you can build another one. It is easy when you aren`t
> constrained by facts or reason.

As Huckster points out: Curiously, you posted no evidence. no
citations, no documents, no testimony, no exhibits, no witness videos.

Only comments. We gain nothing from the above.

Which makes who exactly the fool?

Gil made the point more explicitly:

The LN Trolls in this newsgroup post no evidence.
No citations
No documents
No testimony
No exhibits
No witness videos
They do no research of their own, preferring to take the lazy way out
and fall back on the conclusions of the Warren Commission Report.
You can gain NO KNOWLEDGE from their posts.

What they DO post are comments, speculation, opinion and ( when that
doesn't work ) insults. They see themselves as guardians of the truth
against those crazy "conspiracy theorists".

They argue that because a conspiracy can't be proven, then none
existed.
Does that mean that if a murder is unsolved, the victim was never
murdered ? You'll have to ask them, that's their thought process.

They have little or no knowledge of police procedures, like the proper
way to conduct a lineup, the proper way to handle evidence, the proper
way to interrogate a prisoner and the proper way to protect a
prosecution case by protecting a suspect's Constitutional rights.
And yet they'll argue and insult someone knowledgeable of such things.

They have little or no knowledge of the 26 volumes of testimony and
exhibits that they so religiously support. Most of them haven't even
read them.

They have little or no knowledge of how "southern justice" worked in
the 1960s. How innocent black men never made it to trial and how
all-white grand juries refused to indict guilty white men ( like
Medgar Evers' murderer Byron DeLa Beckwith ).

They have little or no knowledge of the history of the Kennedy
Administration, the powerful enemies he made with his personal
behavior and his political policies.

They have little or no knowledge of the atmosphere in the city of
Dallas at the time of the assassination. That the President was warned
not to go to Dallas or "they" would kill him there begs the question,
"how did all of these people know Lee Harvey Oswald was going to kill
the President" ?

But not having knowledge is not enough. Even when shown evidence
indicating that Oswald was innocent, they ignore it.

They ignore evidence that Oswald was seen on the first floor so soon
after the shooting, that he couldn't have possibly come from the sixth
floor..
https://gil-jesus.com/oswald-on-the-first-floor/

They ignore evidence that the paper "gunsack" was made by the Dallas
Police on the afternoon of the assassination.
https://gil-jesus.com/the-bag-job/

They ignore the evidence that the fillers in the police lineups were
chosen in such a way as to make Oswald the only choice a witness could
make.
https://gil-jesus.com/the-police-lineups/

They ignore the evidence that the scope on the rifle was so defective
that it was impossible to hit anything you aimed at.
https://gil-jesus.com/the-rifle-tests/

They ignore the evidence that Dr. Humes LIED about the location of the
back wound.
https://gil-jesus.com/the-back-wound/

They ignore the evidence that no human being, Oswald or anyone else,
could have completely fled the Walker shooting in the TWO SECONDS the
FBI said it took for Walter Kirk Coleman to reach the fence.
https://gil-jesus.com/the-witness/

They ignore the evidence that the FBI lied in its reports.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODXoISgU-0M

They ignore evidence that the Tippit witnesses were unreliable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-7ud5FWiR0

They ignore evidence that the limo agents LIED about how they
responded when the shooting started.
https://gil-jesus.com/the-agents-in-the-limo/

They ignore evidence that witnesses were intimidated by the FBI.
https://gil-jesus.com/the-framing-and-murder-of-lee-harvey-oswald/

All of this evidence of prosecutorial misconduct and unethical police
procedures is ignored and accepted as proper by those who don't know
any better.

But this is not what happens in a proper and professional police
investigation. This is what happens when you are collecting evidence
against one suspect and one suspect only.

In short, this is how you frame an innocent person.

In short, the Lone Nut trolls in this newsgroup are not here to debate
evidence because they don't know the evidence. They're not here to
learn the truth because they've been systematicly brainwashed by a
government with a history of lying to its people.

And speaking of things they don't know about, they don't even know
they've been brainwashed. They come in here time and time again and
their lack of knowledge of the evidence only leads them to embarrass
themselves.

You'll gain no knowledge from their posts.

Stay away from a foolish man; you will gain no knowledge from his
speech. ( Proverbs 14:7 )

[David Von Pein]

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 5:36:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:

> If you are really interested you could try DVP's blog to find the original transmissions, he has all that. In fact I was looking on there last night. I found the footage, but it wouldn't play for me, it only spun ... http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2012/03/krld-radio.html

Yeah, that's been a problem for the last year for embedded Google Drive videos when using the Firefox browser. (You must have been using Firefox, because the G-Drive videos *will* play on other browsers.)

I've been constantly begging Blogger and/or Google Drive to fix the problem for many months now, but they just keep on ignoring it. I guess nobody gives a damn about preserving quality and good service anymore.

Hint: if you click on the "Pop-Out" buttons which are in the upper-right of each embedded *Google Drive* video on my sites, the video will then play (after you let the damn thing spin and buffer for a minute or two, which is yet another glitch I've been trying to get Google Drive to fix for over a year now; the slow and sluggish start-ups were never a problem prior to 2022).

So, unless you're an extremely patient person who doesn't mind waiting for up to 5 minutes for a video to buffer and load up, then my entire collection of 3,000+ online streaming videos (which has taken me years to collect and edit and put online) is now essentially worthless until Google Drive decides to get their head out of their ass and update/upgrade the sluggish video players.

~~~ sigh ~~~

[End Rant.]

[Bud]

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:22:57 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 09:07:17 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
> wrote:
> > <snicker> Wow, you really are upset I kicked your sandcastle over.
> > It`s fine, you can build another one. It is easy when you aren`t
> > constrained by facts or reason.
> As Huckster points out: Curiously, you posted no evidence. no
> citations, no documents, no testimony, no exhibits, no witness videos.
>
> Only comments. We gain nothing from the above.

You don`t. Others might see the accuracy and truth of my observations.

To deny that conspiracy folks play with the evidence in this case like children play with blocks is to deny reality.

[Ben Holmes]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 06:34:11 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

Of course, serious people will simply pay for hosting.

[Ben Holmes]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 08:26:49 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
wrote:

>On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:22:57?PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 09:07:17 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
>> wrote:
>>> <snicker> Wow, you really are upset I kicked your sandcastle over.
>>> It`s fine, you can build another one. It is easy when you aren`t
>>> constrained by facts or reason.
>>
>> As Huckster points out: Curiously, you posted no evidence. no
>> citations, no documents, no testimony, no exhibits, no witness videos.
>>
>> Only comments. We gain nothing from the above.
>
> You don`t. Others might see the accuracy and truth of my observations.
>
> To deny that conspiracy folks play with the evidence in this case like children play with blocks is to deny reality.

So, according to Bugliosi, it was this "oval" shape that was
"virtually conclusive evidence" of an SBT?