KBOX-Radio (Dallas) Coverage Of JFK's Assassination

[David Von Pein]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piBz9c9QWOQ

Related KBOX Links:

http://www.reelradio.com/comment/comment.cgi?kbox112263~KBOX+Dallas,+November+22,+1963~../se/index.html

http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2015/12/jfk-assassination-kbox-radio.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/05/jfk-assassination-media-errors.html

[Ben Holmes]

It's amusing that you keep citing what you refuse to support.

[David Von Pein]

Major League Baseball umpire Joe West sets a new record for most games umpired in the big leagues tonight. Ben Holmes just set a new record for "Most Days Spent Online Spreading B.S.".

Congrats to Benji!

[Chuck Schuyler]

...to your satisfaction. Always remember to add that.

[Chuck Schuyler]

Old Joe needs to hang it up, but congrats on the accomplishment. He's regularly voted as one of the worst umps in the game.

https://www.thecoldwire.com/worst-mlb-umpires/


>
> Congrats to Benji!

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:26:27 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 7:19:36 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:11:46 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
>> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>>

>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piBz9nc9QWOQ
>>>
>>>Related KBOX Links:
>>>
>>>http://www.reelradio.com/comment/comment.cgi?kbox1127263~KBOX+Dallas,+November+22,+1963~../se/index.html
>>>
>>>http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2025/12/jfk-assassination-kbox-radio.html
>>>
>>>http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2003/05/jfk-assassination-media-errors.html

>>
>> It's amusing that you keep citing what you refuse to support.

Logical fallacy deleted.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler
<chucksch...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 6:19:36 PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:11:46 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
>> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>>

>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piBz98c9QWOQ

>>>
>>>Related KBOX Links:
>>>
>>>http://www.reelradio.com/comment/comment.cgi?kbox1127263~KBOX+Dallas,+November+22,+1963~../se/index.html
>>>

>>>http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2005/12/jfk-assassination-kbox-radio.html
>>>
>>>http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2003/05/jfk-assassination-media-errors.html

>> It's amusing that you keep citing what you refuse to support.
>
>...to your satisfaction. Always remember to add that.

You should learn what honesty is.

[Chuck Schuyler]

I won't learn it from you.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:49:29 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler

<chucksch...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 6:36:35 PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Schuyler
>> <chucksch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 6:19:36 PM UTC-5, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 25 May 2021 16:11:46 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
>>>> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piBz98c9QWOQ
>>>>>
>>>>>Related KBOX Links:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.reelradio.com/comment/comment.cgi?kbox1127263~KBOX+Dallas,+November+22,+1963~../se/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2005/12/jfk-assassination-kbox-radio.html
>>>>>
>>>>>http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2003/05/jfk-assassination-media-errors.html
>>>> It's amusing that you keep citing what you refuse to support.
>>>
>>>...to your satisfaction. Always remember to add that.
>
>> You should learn what honesty is.
>
>I won't learn it from you.

If you can't learn it from me, you'll never learn it.

[David Von Pein]

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 7:33:17 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote:
> Old Joe needs to hang it up, but congrats on the accomplishment. He's regularly voted as one of the worst umps in the game.

You'd never know it based on the commentators' glowing compliments aimed at West during his record-tying game last night. To hear them tell it, Joe's about the best arbiter in history. :-)

During my "baseball obsessed" days in the early 1980s, I can recall the Reds' radio broadcasters bashing Mr. West's calls quite often. But not nearly as often as when they would trash Lanny Harris and Dave Pallone.

[John Corbett]

Joe was my spring training partner in 1975 when we were both Class A umpires working the
Texas Rangers minor league camp in Plant City. There wasn't a doubt in my mind that he was
going to the Big Leagues. He just had an air and a confidence about him that set him apart
from all the other umpires I had worked with. Joe has had a second career as a country music
singer and is well known in that crowd. He played an umpire in one of the Naked Gun movies.
He also invented a chest protector that is now a standard among umpires at all levels. It was
nicknamed the West Vest when it first came on the market.

On a sad note, looking at a recent picture of Joe, I noticed one of the two memorial patches on
his jacket had the initials DC. The only umpire I could think of with those initials was Derryl
Cousins. I googled him and learned that he passed away last October from cancer at age 74.
I went to umpire school with Derryl and he had the bunk right next to mine. He had been a
catcher in the Tigers farm system and made it to Triple-A and was being groomed as Bill
Freehan's heir apparent when bursitis in his shoulder ended his playing career. He wanted to
stay in the game and so he turned to umpiring even though he had never umpired a game in
his life. As a former catcher, he was naturally a good ball/strike umpire but he struggled on
the bases during school. An umpire gets judged primarily on his ability to work the plate so
he landed a job and eventually got the hang of working the bases.

[John Corbett]

Joe is one of those umpires who nobody is neutral about. People either love him or hate him.
In a poll of major league players, he was voted both the best and worst. One manager who
remained anonymous said if he had a big game, he would like to see Joe behind the plate,
especially on the road because he knew Joe was not one to be intimidated by the crowd.
Another player said he was the best base umpire he ever saw. Joe's bravado has occasionally
gotten him in trouble and it is the reason a lot of players don't like him, but not too many
criticize his ability to call a game. He is one of the best in category.

Lanny Harris and Dave Pallone were both strike breaking umpires. I got to know Lanny Harris
when he was working the International League and I was an occasional fill in umpire for
Columbus Clipper games. He only lasted a couple years and died of a brain tumor a short time
later. Pallone was a decent umpire but his career ended when it became known he was gay. In
today's world that wouldn't have ended his career but this was back in the 1980s and that was
considered unacceptable. I had barely known him when I was working in the minors and I don't
think anyone suspected his sexuality. At least I hadn't heard any rumors.

[John Corbett]

One more tidbit about Joe West. He would have broken Bill Klem's record several years ago if
not for the fallout from a labor dispute. In 1999, the umpires' collective bargaining agreement
wasn't up for renewal but there were some issues they wanted resolved which the American
and National Leagues refused to negotiate. Each league had their own umpires back then.
The lawyer who represented the umpires decide to have the umpires resign in mass to force
the leagues to negotiate but the leagues called their bluff and accepted the resignations. They
gave the umpires a deadline to rescind their resignations. A little more than half did. When the
rest realized they were going to lose their jobs, they tried to rescind theirs too but the leagues
wouldn't let them. There were a handful of those that the league wanted back because they
were among the top rated umpires and Joe was one of them. He and several other umpires
were allowed to return in 2002 so Joe lost about three years of his career. If Joe hadn't been
among the best umpires he never would have gotten his job back. It was only a select few
who were allowed back in.

[David Von Pein]

@John Corbett.....

Good "umpire" info there. Thanks.

One of my favorite N.L. umps was Doug Harvey. He was one of the most respected umps in the game "back in the day". Did you know Doug?

Another memorable umpire was Emmett Ashford. He had to retire after just 5 years in the big leagues. The A.L. at that time had a mandatory retirement age of 55. If that were in effect today, Joe West would have retired many years ago. Ashford made a memorable appearance on Groucho Marx's TV show in the late 1950s or early '60s.

Another umpire who made a TV show appearance was Terry Tata. He was on "What's My Line?" in 1961. Did you know Terry?

[John Corbett]

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 1:02:01 AM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> @John Corbett.....
>
> Good "umpire" info there. Thanks.
>
> One of my favorite N.L. umps was Doug Harvey. He was one of the most respected umps in the game "back in the day". Did you know Doug?

No. Other than the instructors at the school, the only chance I would have had to meet the Big
League umpires was spring training and Doug Harvey did his in Arizona.

>
> Another memorable umpire was Emmett Ashford. He had to retire after just 5 years in the big leagues. The A.L. at that time had a mandatory retirement age of 55. If that were in effect today, Joe West would have retired many years ago. Ashford made a memorable appearance on Groucho Marx's TV show in the late 1950s or early '60s.

Emmet Ashford was brought up way past his prime. I've heard he was an outstanding umpire
when he was younger but wasn't given the chance until baseball was pressured into breaking
the color barrier for umpires and he was the only one in Triple-A at the time. The National
League followed in the early 1970s with Art Williams. He had just the opposite problem. He
was rushed to the Big Leagues before he was ready and had lots of problems. Eric Gregg was
next but he was allowed time to develop. Eric and Steve Palermo were both student
instructors at the umpire school. Both were Class A umpires with a year of experience. At the
time he was shot and partially paralyzed following a restaurant robbery he was widely regarded
as the best umpire in baseball. As a plate umpire he had no peer. He might have gone down
as the greatest umpire ever if not for having his career cut short. He'd surely have ended up in
the Hall of Fame. He probably should be anyway.

When I was at the school, Eric was already on option to the National League and Steve was on
option to the American League. In the days when the leagues had separate staffs, they would
compete to get the best umpires. By agreement, each league was allowed to place an option
on a fixed number of umpires meaning the other league couldn't sign them. Typically, an
umpire would serve 5 to 7 years in the minors before getting called up although there were
exceptions. Now that the leagues aren't competing for umpires, they bring them along much
more slowly. An umpire might serve many years as a fill in umpire for vacationing umpires
before landing a spot on the full time staff. Many of the fill in umpires will work more games
than the regular staff. The kicker is they don't earn time toward their pension until they become
full time umpires. James Hoy who was from Columbus worked over 1000 games as a fill in
before finally getting hired full time.

>
> Another umpire who made a TV show appearance was Terry Tata. He was on "What's My Line?" in 1961. Did you know Terry?

No. I never crossed paths with Terry. He went to the Big Leagues the same year I got into baseball, 1973. He was one of four umpires competing that spring for two openings in the
National League. It was known that Art Williams was going to get one of the jobs so the
other three competed for the other opening. The others were Paul Runge and Dutch Rennert.
I think both went up the following year. Paul Runge is the son of longtime American League
umpire Ed Runge and now I think he has a son in the Big Leagues.

You got me curious about Terry Tata so I googled him and found out he was on What's My
Line as the youngest umpire in professional baseball at the age of 21. That was my age when
I got into pro ball and it wasn't that unusual by that time. Some were even younger. Many
people don't know that Brent Musburger worked one season in minor league baseball at the
age of 18. He set a league record for ejections that as far as I know still stands today. He
worked the Midwest League sometime in the late 1950s. When I was assigned to that league
in 1975, some of the longtime employees of the clubs still talked about him. By that time he
had become the studio host for CBS's NFL pregame show and play-by-play man for March
Madness and the NBA playoffs.

[Chuck Schuyler]

I think Joe gets a little bit of a bad reputation because when he was younger, it sometimes seemed it was about Joe and not the game itself. He's probably--over the years--been an average umpire. Here's Joe being Joe and getting super-aggressive on balk calls on Mark Buehrle, tossing manager Ozzie Guillen first and Buehrle later:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRADU6P-q5g

Joe West got fined for this. He had his own radio program for a while and once called the Red Sox and Yankees "pathetic" over the length of their games (which may be true, but an MLB umpire shouldn't be calling out MLB teams).

Anyway, kudos to Joe on the accomplishment. This record may never be broken as I think MLB is moving towards forcing the union to retire these guys a little sooner.

[Chuck Schuyler]

I didn't know you umped professionally. I've umpired on-and-off for good chunks of my adult life. I started umping as a way to earn extra money when I was a teenager and I've umped thousands of games.

A couple of years ago I was calling ball-and-strikes for a U14 championship game, in a high level youth tournament here in Minnesota.

Bottom of the 7th (last inning), the home team is batting, down a run. Two outs. A walk. A kid crushes a ball, stand-up double, but the kid on first is held at third when he stumbles coming around second, so runners on second and third, two outs, the home team down a run. One to tie, two to walk it off for the trophy.

The visiting manager calls time to discuss strategy and calls his whole team over to the third base foul line (allowed in youth baseball with a timeout). I presume he wants all of his players to know where to throw the ball if they get it.

Kids return to their positions. I notice the second baseman is standing a little closer to the runner on second who is getting ready to take his lead. My umping partner is positioned near second base. I yell, "Play Ball!" but the pitcher doesn't touch the rubber. The runner on second takes a small lead, and immediately, the second baseman tags the runner--the hidden ball trick--and my partner calls him out, game over, and the benches erupt for the winning team, dejection on the other side.

But not so fast. I overrule my partner's call, and the manager for the visitors goes ballistic. He yells, "You said 'Play Ball!' so it's game on." I explained that out of a timeout, what puts the game in motion is the players in their correct positions, and that includes the pitcher on the mound toeing the rubber with the ball. I tell him that if your kids want to run a hidden ball trick, that's fine, but not out of a timeout, especially after you've called all of your players off the field into foul territory and personally handed the ball off to a preferred player. I ask him, "Does that seem even remotely fair in youth baseball, even if there wasn't a rule to cover it?" He argues that he didn't give the ball to the player. I tell him sorry, that's still not legal. You called timeout.

Lots of grumbling, but we restart after a fairly lengthy delay which included me locating the rule in a rule book (and online via a parents' smart phone). Of course, the next kid up bloops a single to right field and both runs score and the home team is victorious.

What I remember the most is the vitriol from the parents and fans on the visitor's side aimed my way. Over the years, what has changed the most is how vicious parents are towards the umps. Terrible. As I was headed back to my car later, a guy who managed a rival team came up and told me that the manager for the hidden-ball trick team has been running a variation of that play all season and that I was the first ump tp call him on it. Personally, I thought it was an easy call, but such is the life of an umpire.

[John Corbett]

The reason it won't be broken, in addition to the retirement age, is that MLB umpires only work
about 120 games a season. I think they get 4 weeks off for vacation and spend another three
weeks in New York serving as replay umpires. The umpires association negotiated the
mandatory retirement age out of their collective bargaining agreement decades ago. MLB put
it back in some time ago but it was grandfathered in so it wouldn't apply to any active umpires
which is why Joe is still able to work.

I would disagree with you about him being an average umpire. As far as calling balls and strikes,
safes and outs, he is one of the best. He consistently grades near the top in that category.
He doesn't always handle situations well which has gotten him in trouble several times over the
years and led to fines and few suspensions. These are the reasons he ranks very high or very
low depending on who you talk to. Players and managers recognize his ability to make the right
call but he has made enemies because he doesn't back down from a confrontation. That's good
to a point but occasionally he crosses the line.

[John Corbett]

You were right to over rule the hidden ball trick but I would not have yelled Play Ball unless you
didn't know the pitcher didn't have the ball. In that case you just explain that nothing can happen
out of a timeout until the pitcher steps on the rubber with the ball in his possession. Until then
time is still out. If you did know the pitcher didn't have the ball, I would have just told the defense
they had to put the ball in play at the pitcher's rubber and spoiled the surprise.

Although the rule book specifies the umpire is supposed to yell "Play" (not Play Ball) after each
dead ball, in practice at the higher levels we simply point at the pitcher. In professional baseball
they have an implied live ball which means if the pitcher steps on the rubber with the ball and the
umpire is not holding up his hand to indicate time is still out, the ball becomes live.

One thing I learned early on is that an umpire will never win over the fans no matter how good he
is. If you can earn the respect of the participants, that is best you are going to do. The fans are
always going to be against you.

[Chuck Schuyler]

I was pleased I got the call correct. I was mildly annoyed with the youth coach who thought it was fair--covered in the rule book or not--to trick another team in this manner. I've seen the hidden ball trick worked where a throw is faked to first by the pitcher (foot off the rubber first) as a wild throw with the first basemen pretending to race after it and the runner bolts for second and is easily tagged out. (Totally legal.) I've seen first basemen fake the throw back to the pitcher after a pick-off attempt and tag out a careless runner who jumped off the bag too soon, etc. All legal, but sliding the ball over to a teammate in a time out huddle in foul territory? Nope.

[Chuck Schuyler]

https://fansided.com/2021/04/22/angel-hernandez-joe-west-umpire-auditor/

By the way, there are websites that track ump accuracy now. Here's John Libka calling a near perfect game a few weeks ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8rAYIvIlHM

[healyd...@gmail.com]

too bad the Game of Life has you so confused...

[John Corbett]

Fansided is one of the worst websites around. You can tell from their comments that it is
written by people who don't understand the game. They fail to appreciate that the strike
zone as defined by the rulebook and the one in practice are not one and the same. When I
was in professional baseball, if you called the strike zone strictly by the rulebook you would
get run out of the game. The rulebook at the time said the top of the strike zone went to the
armpits. If you called a strike more than a few inches above the belt, you would go to war.
Same thing if you called a pitch an inch off the plate a ball. Everyone gave at least two inches
off the plate a strike and that was considered a tight strike zone. Four inches was acceptable
and umpires like Eric Gregg would call pitches 6 inches off the plate a strike. Players understood
the difference in individual umpire's strike zones and adjusted accordingly. When they started
using overhead cameras fans started to see how wide the plate was in practice. That's when
there was a movement to get umpires to call the strike zone more in line with the rulebook.
They redefined the strike zone to bring down the top and then developed the Questec system
to evaluate how strictly the umpires were adhering to the new rulebook zone. The result is
that umpires are calling a higher strike zone than when I was in the game but it still doesn't
mean they are calling it strictly by the rulebook. For one, the rulebook strike zone varies
from one batter to another depending on their size but the electronic systems don't adjust
for individual batters. When they first started using the system to grade umpires, a strike two
inches off the plate was considered acceptable. I am guessing that still is the case. I can't
believe they expect an umpire to call a ball on pitches a half inch off the plate even if that
is what the electronic system says it is.

It doesn't surprise me that a veteran umpire like Joe West would not be graded well by the
robot. He established his strike zone before the modern technology was available and was
considered a top notch umpire as a result. I don't know how much or if he has adjusted his
strike zone according to the new definition and the electronic monitoring. Players and
managers don't care. What they want is an umpire to be consistent with his calls and Joe
West has always been that. They know what is and what is not a strike when Joe West
umpires. Whether that meets the approval of the robot is not that important.

When I was in the game, it was considered an outstanding game if you missed five or fewer
pitches a game. It would barely be noticed. Miss more than five and you would start to hear
about it. It is ludicrous to believe that any MLB umpire is missing 10% or more of his calls.
They aren't missing those pitches. They simply aren't calling a strike zone that agrees with
the electronic grading system.

[John Corbett]

I first saw the fake wild throw at first base pulled off in the College World Series, by Miami I
think. It worked and I'm not surprised it has been imitated. I know one thing. If anyone ever
did it at the pro level, somebody would be wearing a pitch the next time he came to the plate.
I used to attend NCAA umpiring clinics each year and I learned that as part of the ruse,
somebody in the bullpen, which was inside the field of play, threw a bullpen ball down the foul
line to make it look like it was the ball the pitcher had thrown. That is where I would have drawn
the line. I would have negated the out, awarded the runner second base and if I knew who had
thrown the loose ball, he would have been ejected.

[John Corbett]

I just read the Fansided article about the play where the batter leaned into a pitch that was in
the strike zone and was awarded first base forcing in the game ending run. That practice has
been a problem in high school and college baseball for at least a couple decades and I'm not
surprised it has worked its way into the pro game. In my last year in working pro ball, the Mets
farm team in Lynchburg, Va. had a player who was very adept at doing that. If he got an inside
pitch, he would spin and throw his elbow oudt and just get nicked by it. He would sell it like he was
really hurt. The first time he did it it looked suspicious to me but I awarded him first base and I
got no grief over it. About a week later he pulled it on my partner and it was a little more obvious
and he did catch some grief. We both agreed he was doing it deliberately. A short time later we
had him again and I was ready for it. He pulled the stunt and I called it a ball. He had gone down
pretending to be hurt and when I made the call, he stood up and said "ball?". He seemed to forget
that he was hurting. His manager put up a token argument I could tell he didn't really have a
problem with the call. He was Jack Aker, a former Big League reliever and I don't think he was
too thrilled with his player doing something like that.

The first time I saw it happen in a Big League game was on a Monday night telecast. David Wells
was pitching for Boston against the Yankees. He threw a slow inside curveball which Giambi
threw his elbow into, protected by the body armor. Giambi was awarded first base but you could
tell from the look of disgust on Wells' face he was not pleased. I was watching the game with
some umpiring buddies following our association's rules meeting. I threw $20 on the table and
said "Twenty bucks says Giambi wears a Wells fastball next time up.". Nobody took the bet and
it was good for them that they didn't. Wells drilled him in the ribs with the first pitch. In the pro
game, that sort of nonsense polices itself. I will almost guarantee you that the next time the
Mets play the Marlins, Conforto will get drilled with a fastball.

[Chuck Schuyler]

But an electronic strike zone is coming. MLB will have it in ten years or less.

Pitchers throw so hard nowadays that you can't give them that big 70s/80s zone. Lots of changes coming to baseball, including a 61 1/2 or 62 foot distance to home from the mound and other changes. Average velo on an MLB fastball is up dramatically the past ten years and we're at 1968 level low batting averages. Guys can't hit what is being thrown.

[John Corbett]

I wouldn't argue that. It will change the game, however.

>
> Pitchers throw so hard nowadays that you can't give them that big 70s/80s zone. Lots of changes coming to baseball, including a 61 1/2 or 62 foot distance to home from the mound and other changes. Average velo on an MLB fastball is up dramatically the past ten years and we're at 1968 level low batting averages. Guys can't hit what is being thrown.

I think the low batting averages and high strikeout rates are a product of hitters swinging for
the fences. Nobody does situational hitting any more. Everyone is trying to be Dave Kingman.
They'll take five strikeouts for every homerun they hit. I don't know how much moving the rubber
back is going to affect the game but baseball ought to thing long and hard about changing
something that has been part of the game for about 150 years.

A 100 mph fastball travels 146.666... feet per second which works out to .4125 seconds to cover
60 feet 6 inches. If you move the rubber back to 62 feet, it takes .422727... seconds to reach
home plate. You are giving the hitter about 1/100 of a second more to react to the pitch. Not
insignificant, but I doubt it changes the game that much and pitchers are going to have to adjust
to the extra distance which could cause control problems. Will the game be better off if we
substitute more walks for strikeouts?

All of the above is a bit of an over simplification since the pitcher releases the ball from well in
front of the rubber and the 60' 6" distance is from the front edge of the rubber to the back point
of home plate. The ball doesn't move at a constant velocity since it begins decelerating the
instant it leaves the pitcher's hand. When Bob Feller was in his prime way before the radar gun
was invented, Duke University developed a contraption that could measure the velocity of an
object passing through it. It measures his fastball at home plate at 97 mph. He then threw a
ball through it standing as close as he could to it without hitting his arm against it. It measured
his fastball at 117 mph when it left his hand.

[John Corbett]

I found this footage showing Bob Feller getting his fastball timed.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/just-because-bob-fellers-fastball-measured-by-army-equipment/#:~:text=Back%20in%20the%201940s%2C%20Indians%20ace%20--%20and,ordnance%20equipment.%20He%20threw%2098.6%20miles%20per%20hour.

What I wrote above is based on what I heard Feller say in an interview and it is slightly different
from what he described. This footage says the device belonged to the Army but I think Feller
said it had been developed by Duke. The numbers he gave are slightly different from what the
footage shows.

[David Von Pein]

FYI / BTW / FWIW ....

Here's the "What's My Line?" episode with umpire Terry Tata (in June of 1961):

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2014/05/whats-my-line-june-11-1961.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AKRjqL6ZdoY/U6Kuo5X5STI/AAAAAAAA1MU/zTQDm25K0yc/s1600/WML-6-11-61.png

Related Video....

Don Drysdale on Groucho Marx's "You Bet Your Life" in 1959:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B56lqh-7-SzQYm9HYmMtZmFNSEk/view

[John Corbett]

What I find interesting about the Tata appearance is I was unaware that he had spent that many
years in the minors. He went up in 1973 and 12 years was a long time back then. Now it is
considered normal. 1973 was my first spring training and I got to see a lot of the spring training
games in the Tampa/St. Pete area and several of the umpires competing for the two openings
on the National League staff. I saw a lot of Paul Runge and Dutch Rennert and one game Art
Williams worked but didn't see Terry Tata at all. Williams and Tata got the two slots and Runge
and Rennert went up the following year. Rennert had spent 17 years in the minors which was
almost unheard of back then. Most guys would have either given up or been released by then.