This is the end.
X98
Saturday, June 08, 2002
This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
For nearly three years now I have been sounding an alarm to the
people of this world. Thousands have heard, but few have
listened. My wish is that you would listen; but your reaction to
my words is not my concern. My only concern is that, I do my work
as the watchman of Mt.Carmel and continue it until the
"Abomination That Maketh Desolate" is destroyed and David's house
is restored to it former glory.
It was on Valentine's Day, which was the second Sabbath of
February 1998 that the surviving Davidians appointed me as
watchman. My job as stated in the "edict" declared that I was "to
fulfill the job of Custodian at the Mt. Carmel site..." The
Davidians further stated that, "No other Security personnel are
recognized by us, at this time, as having a right to waylay,
hinder, restrict, or charge monies to visitors, who wish to enter
the property during daylight hours." Clive Doyle, the acting
leader of the survivors, signed this document.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/files/mww.gif
When I accepted this job, I had no idea that Doyle was in fact an
agent of those who murdered the Davidians. However, on September
18, 1999 he founded the new church on the Sabbath. This may mean
nothing to you, but to the people that gave their lives defending
and living by the fourth Commandment of God, it meant everything.
Since that day, I have been trying to warn people of what has
taken place here in Waco. Aside from this issue, I have no reason
for being on this Internet.
On June 24th [2300 days] will have passed since David was
killed. On that day the sanctuary will be cleansed and it will be
the beginning of terror in this world like no man has ever seen
ever was since there was a man to receive it.
I have posted a request for a discussion on these issues knowing
that no one would respond. There have been attempts by Mark Swett
and others to misdirect the subject matter, but my job and
responsibilities to the Martyrs are my only concerns. I will not
stray from my appointed task. What I have written is of no
importance to people, just as the torture and murder of the
Davidians are of no importance. It seems that people are
concerned with the Martyrs only in so far as it assists them in
their personal agendas. Nevertheless, the day will come when
these words will be considered with great sorrow and regret for
not having heeded the warning.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/993
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/1065
I wish there were more time to tell you of the things I have
learn here in Waco over the last six years, but it appears that
this will not be. The vile suffering that is to come upon all
those that dwell on the earth is not George Bush's fault. Sure,
he is the King of the North that will kill billions, but he can
do nothing without our help. How righteous will be our torment
visa-vie the suffering this nation has brought upon the
oppressed. The cruelty of our own hearts will bring on this
destruction, leaving us with no argument before God's judgment.
We are, without doubt, the worst generation this world has ever
known. Moreover, we will reap the reward of having earned this
title. Damned be the Son of Darkness!
God willing, I will write on the June 24th prophecy during the
next two weeks. This coming paper will, most likely be my last.
This Monday, the 10th there will be a solar eclipse accompanied
by terrestrial activity that will change man forever; the
manifestation of our darkened hearts.
The watchman.........X98
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
David Koresh said:
It's war! These governments of this world are coming to an end.
The minds of men are going to be focused upon that fact. Go ahead
and laugh, go ahead and muse in your minds, and see what happens
to you...
Hand Book for the soldiers of Peace and Justice!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/files/AT
Modern ISRAEL-ZIONISM is the whore of Revelation 17.
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Christ is coming to destroy Babylon. Read Isa. 13 and see what he
is about to do.
Direct link to Autopsy Evidence:
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/map/d_lis
t00.html
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
KoreshX98-...@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Woden
"X98" <X...@hot.rr.com> wrote in message
news:blNM8.211418$Q42.9...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful
> Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
> This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
Based on what you wrote, I think I can speak for the many who say
"WAHOOO". We won't miss you a bit.
(snip BS)
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
Steve J
guess it's OK.
-sj
"Woden" <wo...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ug79aoi...@corp.supernews.com...
Lady Lorelei
> Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
> This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
> For nearly three years now I have been sounding an alarm to the
> people of this world. Thousands have heard, but few have
> listened. My wish is that you would listen; but your reaction to
> my words is not my concern. My only concern is that, I do my work
> as the watchman of Mt.Carmel and continue it until the
> "Abomination That Maketh Desolate" is destroyed and David's house
> is restored to it former glory.
ummm..... has your psychiatrist evaluated your anti-psychotic meds recently?
If not, he really should.....
Douglas Berry
"X98" <X...@hot.rr.com> warmed at our fire and told this tale:
>This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
>For nearly three years now I have been sounding an alarm to the
>people of this world. Thousands have heard, but few have
>listened. My wish is that you would listen; but your reaction to
>my words is not my concern. My only concern is that, I do my work
>as the watchman of Mt.Carmel and continue it until the
>"Abomination That Maketh Desolate" is destroyed and David's house
>is restored to it former glory.
Does this mean you are going to finally shut up?
Let me explain something. We will be here next year, and the year
after that, and so on. Predicting the end of the world is the job of
nutcases and con men.
Go away, and when life goes on, maybe your calcified brain will click
on and you'll *think* for the first time in decades.
--
Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Paminifarm
chant chant chant chantchant chant chant chant chant chantchant chant chant
chantchant chantchant chantchant chant; always saying the same thing over and
over and over again - the sound of the Pagan: chant chant chant chant chant
chantchant chant chantchant chant chantchant chant chantchant chant chantchant
chant chantchant chant chantchant chant chant chant chant chant.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Truth Will Set You Free (John 8:32),
So Get Some At The Famous "urls" Page:
http://anzwers.org/free/paminifarm/urls.html
If you donot like what is there:
Add Your Own Link To The "urls" Page
http://paminifarm.jeeran.com/enter.html
Steve Knight
snip
>On June 24th [2300 days] will have passed since David was
>killed. On that day the sanctuary will be cleansed and it will be
>the beginning of terror in this world like no man has ever seen
>ever was since there was a man to receive it.
Get a life. Doesn't your mental health peg in the red when you
think the whole fucking world revolves around a wacked out cult
shaman?
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
Ghostman
> Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
> This is the end.
Bu-bye. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
Ghostman
aa # 2011
kcaj
I won't curse you out or follow these mostly other true
responses. I have to say you are one mixed up dude. You're the
one mentioning the Bible. If you're going to talk about the Bible
all the time at last get it right or get it along the lines of
what most people who read and understand it. Koresh must have
been so mixed up he didn't even know what planet he was on. If
people really thought Koresh was Jesus Christ, they were really
worshipping satan. Koresh makes British Identity and it's
American cousins look like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
>On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 18:43:19 GMT, "X98" <X...@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful
>Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
>This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
>For nearly three years now I have been sounding an alarm to the
>people of this world. Thousands have heard, but few have
>listened. My wish is that you would listen; but your reaction to
>my words is not my concern. My only concern is that, I do my work
>as the watchman of Mt.Carmel and continue it until the
>"Abomination That Maketh Desolate" is destroyed and David's house
>is restored to it former glory.
Koreah's cult is not the house of David. The race isn't correct
and the geographic locality isn't in the right place. In fact
America isn't found in any correct prophetic translation of the
Bible by any one with a normal mind. Mt. Carmel isn't Jerusulem
and the temple won't be rebuilt in Waco and David's house isn't
Biblically in Waco, Texas. How could the Jewish prophets be
speaking of Texas when Texas and America weren't known at the
time? You make Christian Identity sound correct. You're worse
than they are.
This crap is way beyond a cult. You're so Biblically deranged you
don't make sense to anybody but your own. Understand this, when
nobody can understand or make sense of what you are saying, you
may be categorized as legally insane and institutionalized.
>
>It was on Valentine's Day, which was the second Sabbath of
>February 1998 that the surviving Davidians appointed me as
>watchman. My job as stated in the "edict" declared that I was "to
>fulfill the job of Custodian at the Mt. Carmel site..." The
>Davidians further stated that, "No other Security personnel are
>recognized by us, at this time, as having a right to waylay,
>hinder, restrict, or charge monies to visitors, who wish to enter
>the property during daylight hours." Clive Doyle, the acting
>leader of the survivors, signed this document.
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/files/mww.gif
>
>When I accepted this job, I had no idea that Doyle was in fact an
>agent of those who murdered the Davidians. However, on September
>18, 1999 he founded the new church on the Sabbath. This may mean
>nothing to you, but to the people that gave their lives defending
>and living by the fourth Commandment of God, it meant everything.
What is the fourth commandment of God? Keep the Sabbath holy?
They lived and died to keep the Sabbath holy? Why did they have
to die for this? Why didn't they just do it and stay alive.
>Since that day, I have been trying to warn people of what has
>taken place here in Waco. Aside from this issue, I have no reason
>for being on this Internet.
Nobody understands this but you and maybe your own type. Is this
why you are on the Internet to place information that nobody can
understand? Especially some type of Biblical understanding that
isn't found in the Bible.
>
>On June 24th [2300 days] will have passed since David was
>killed. On that day the sanctuary will be cleansed and it will be
>the beginning of terror in this world like no man has ever seen
>ever was since there was a man to receive it.
This isn't in the Holy Bible. You speak of the Jewish temple like
it is found at Waco Texas. The terror you speak of is in relation
to the antichrist who will Biblically sit in the new Temple in
Israel and force everybody on earh to worship him. None of the
Jewish prophets had ever heard of Texas and historical and modern
Israel isn't anywhere near Waco.
>
>I have posted a request for a discussion on these issues knowing
>that no one would respond. There have been attempts by Mark Swett
>and others to misdirect the subject matter,
Misdirect subject matter? I have never seen any other cult
corrupt the Holy Bible as much as this person in Koresh's
"butt-holy" name.
> but my job and
>responsibilities to the Martyrs are my only concerns. I will not
>stray from my appointed task. What I have written is of no
>importance to people, just as the torture and murder of the
>Davidians are of no importance. It seems that people are
>concerned with the Martyrs only in so far as it assists them in
>their personal agendas. Nevertheless, the day will come when
>these words will be considered with great sorrow and regret for
You speak of these "martyrs" as great men of faith who died for
the truth when actually they were demented lunatics who threw
their lives away. I mean if you're going to believe something at
least try to get it at least half-way right. Why don't you just
start following L. Ron Hubbard? You're as far-out as he was and
at least you could have something more tangible, from your views,
to incorporate your Koreshian philosophies into. Maybe turn
Koresh into a temple cult and place his statue next to Elvis and
burn incense and a gas lamp twenty four hours a day.
>not having heeded the warning.
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/993
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/1065
>
>I wish there were more time to tell you of the things I have
>learn here in Waco over the last six years, but it appears that
>this will not be. The vile suffering that is to come upon all
>those that dwell on the earth is not George Bush's fault. Sure,
>he is the King of the North
When these prophecies where predicted due North was approximately
where modern day Russian is. The ancient Hebrew prophets were
talking about what is probably modern-day Russia. If they had
been speaking from Waco, they would have meant Canada or the
Artic Circle. How can Bush be the Biblical King of the North.
There isn't anything in the Bible that even remotely points to
this. Were the ancient Israelites in Rio or Panama?
> that will kill billions, but he can
>do nothing without our help. How righteous will be our torment
>visa-vie the suffering this nation has brought upon the
>oppressed. The cruelty of our own hearts will bring on this
>destruction, leaving us with no argument before God's judgment.
The cruelty you mention is the suffering your minds are enduring.
Tormenting yourselves with delusions based on your misconceptions
of what the Bible plainly says.
>We are, without doubt, the worst generation this world has ever
>known. Moreover, we will reap the reward of having earned this
>title. Damned be the Son of Darkness!
Who is the Son of Darkness? Please tell me. I'm so curious I'll
never rest until I find out the truth.
>
>God willing, I will write on the June 24th prophecy during the
>next two weeks. This coming paper will, most likely be my last.
>This Monday, the 10th there will be a solar eclipse accompanied
>by terrestrial activity that will change man forever; the
>manifestation of our darkened hearts.
You said it. That's exactly what this is. This sums up everything
the Koresh "messiah" and all his followers believe(d) in.
Boogey Man
never rest until I find out the truth.
Look in the mirror, idiot.
kcaj
>On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 18:43:19 GMT, "X98" <X...@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful
>Saturday, June 08, 2002
If David Koresh did somehow come back and started walking around
town, you wouldn't recognize him. He's still on fire. There would
be a hot time on the old town tonight.
Drop Uwener
> Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
> This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
> For nearly three years now I have been sounding an alarm to the
> people of this world. Thousands have heard, but few have
> listened. My wish is that you would listen; but your reaction to
> my words is not my concern.
Aieeeeeeee! The wittish are comin'! The wittish are 'comin!
> My only concern is that, I do my work
> as the watchman of Mt.Carmel and continue it until the
> "Abomination That Maketh Desolate" is destroyed and David's house
> is restored to it former glory.
So in other words, you were a guard?
> It was on Valentine's Day, which was the second Sabbath of
> February 1998 that the surviving Davidians appointed me as
> watchman. My job as stated in the "edict" declared that I was "to
> fulfill the job of Custodian at the Mt. Carmel site..." The
> Davidians further stated that, "No other Security personnel are
> recognized by us, at this time, as having a right to waylay,
> hinder, restrict, or charge monies to visitors, who wish to enter
> the property during daylight hours." Clive Doyle, the acting
> leader of the survivors, signed this document.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/files/mww.gif
> When I accepted this job, I had no idea that Doyle was in fact an
> agent of those who murdered the Davidians. However, on September
> 18, 1999 he founded the new church on the Sabbath. This may mean
> nothing to you, but to the people that gave their lives defending
> and living by the fourth Commandment of God, it meant everything.
> Since that day, I have been trying to warn people of what has
> taken place here in Waco. Aside from this issue, I have no reason
> for being on this Internet.
Looks bogus.
> On June 24th [2300 days] will have passed since David was
> killed. On that day the sanctuary will be cleansed and it will be
> the beginning of terror in this world like no man has ever seen
> ever was since there was a man to receive it.
In other words, someone's going to get tortured? Or do you want to
sound foreboding?
> I have posted a request for a discussion on these issues knowing
> that no one would respond. There have been attempts by Mark Swett
> and others to misdirect the subject matter, but my job and
> responsibilities to the Martyrs are my only concerns. I will not
> stray from my appointed task. What I have written is of no
> importance to people, just as the torture and murder of the
> Davidians are of no importance.
> It seems that people are
> concerned with the Martyrs only in so far as it assists them in
> their personal agendas.
Have you have prepared them to be risen from the dead a fortnight from
now?
I mean, you have suggested nothing. Why don't you do something about
this if it means so much to you, if you actually were at something had
gone on?
> Nevertheless, the day will come when
> these words will be considered with great sorrow and regret for
> not having heeded the warning.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/993
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/1065
Warning. Warning. Can't give enough of those. . .but have you actually
ever tried to do something before too late?
> I wish there were more time to tell you of the things I have
> learn here in Waco over the last six years, but it appears that
> this will not be. The vile suffering that is to come upon all
> those that dwell on the earth is not George Bush's fault. Sure,
> he is the King of the North that will kill billions, but he can
> do nothing without our help. How righteous will be our torment
> visa-vie the suffering this nation has brought upon the
> oppressed. The cruelty of our own hearts will bring on this
> destruction, leaving us with no argument before God's judgment.
> We are, without doubt, the worst generation this world has ever
> known. Moreover, we will reap the reward of having earned this
> title. Damned be the Son of Darkness!
In other words, the world would cease to exist without sun?
> God willing, I will write on the June 24th prophecy during the
> next two weeks. This coming paper will, most likely be my last.
> This Monday, the 10th there will be a solar eclipse accompanied
> by terrestrial activity that will change man forever; the
> manifestation of our darkened hearts.
Going on vacation? We barely knew of your presence here on
alt.atheism. . .(hehheh) Do come back, some of us have been quite
brilliant here, just wait around and maybe a thread could present
itself that does not show its devotion to religion by treating it like
some sort of indispensible hide to whip.
> The watchman.........X98
>
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> David Koresh said:
>
> It's war!
Ok, maybe he said that and maybe he figured that out for hirself. But
what would you do with military troops outside your home wishing to
serve a warrant to confiscate community defense?
> These governments of this world are coming to an end.
> The minds of men are going to be focused upon that fact. Go ahead
> and laugh, go ahead and muse in your minds, and see what happens
> to you...
I suppose if David Koresh could figure out that vigilance was
important to maintaining the capacity for liberty to exist as some
sort of real concept, then he was at least somewhat intelligent.
> Hand Book for the soldiers of Peace and Justice!
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/files/AT
>
> Modern ISRAEL-ZIONISM is the whore of Revelation 17.
>
> MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE
> ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
In other worlds. . .noel?
> Christ is coming to destroy Babylon. Read Isa. 13 and see what he
> is about to do.
Which Christ? The one you refer to or the one in myths who never
killed or destroyed anyone?
It may be a valid point that behavior common to indigenous populations
tends to recur; however, this cannot possibly be the only limiting
factor on those very special days.
-D
> Direct link to Autopsy Evidence:
> http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/map/d_lis
> t00.html
my only friend, the end
Libertarius
[SNIPALOT]
>On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 18:43:19 GMT, "X98" <X...@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>I wish there were more time to tell you of the things I have
>learn here in Waco over the last six years, but it appears that
>this will not be. The vile suffering that is to come upon all
>those that dwell on the earth is not George Bush's fault. Sure,
>he is the King of the NorthWhen these prophecies where predicted due North was approximately
where modern day Russian is. The ancient Hebrew prophets were
talking about what is probably modern-day Russia. If they had
been speaking from Waco, they would have meant Canada or the
Artic Circle. How can Bush be the Biblical King of the North.
There isn't anything in the Bible that even remotely points to
this. Were the ancient Israelites in Rio or Panama?
context, especially their cultural-historical context.
Look at any map of the ancient world:
What is to the DUE NORTH of Israel? It is not the USA,
nor is it Russia.
There could be ONE AND ONLY ONE "king of the North",
and that was the king of ASSYRIA (modern Syria).
(And even it does not have a king any more).
Libertarius
===========
Otho
"Libertarius" <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message news:3D04BBE3.8689E90C@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Libertarius
===========THE KINGS OF THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH
A COMMENTARY ON DANIEL 11
By Ed R. Meelhuysen
Dan. 11
v 3 " Then a mighty king will appear, who will rule with great power and do as he pleases."
This king was Alexander the Great who conquered most of the civilized world by 331 B.C.
v 5 "The king of the South (Ptolemy I Soter) will become strong, but one of his commanders (Seleucus I Nicator) will become even stronger than he and will rule his own kingdom with great power.
v 7"One from her family line will arise to take her place (Ptolemy III Euergetes, 246-221 B.C.). He will attack the forces of the king of the North (Antiochus II Theos, 261-246 B.C.) and enter his fortress; he will fight against them and be victorious. 8 He will also seize their gods, their metal images and their valuable articles of silver and gold and carry them off to Egypt. For some years he will leave the king of the North alone."
v 13 "For the king of the North (Antiochus III) will muster another army, larger than the first; and after several years, he will advance with a huge army fully equipped."
Makes sense to me.
Otho
"Otho" <spi...@netcrawlers.ca> wrote in message news:On5N8.866$Ju2.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Libertarius
===========
Dan. 11
v 3 " Then a mighty king will appear, who will rule with great power and do as he pleases." This king was Alexander the Great who conquered most of the civilized world by 331 B.C.
v 5 "The king of the South (Ptolemy I Soter) will become strong, but one of his commanders (Seleucus I Nicator) will become even stronger than he and will rule his own kingdom with great power.
v 7"One from her family line will arise to take her place (Ptolemy III Euergetes, 246-221 B.C.). He will attack the forces of the king of the North (Antiochus II Theos, 261-246 B.C.) and enter his fortress; he will fight against them and be victorious. 8 He will also seize their gods, their metal images and their valuable articles of silver and gold and carry them off to Egypt. For some years he will leave the king of the North alone."
v 13 "For the king of the North (Antiochus III) will muster another army, larger than the first; and after several years, he will advance with a huge army fully equipped."
http://www.bibleplus.org/prophecy/kings.html
Makes sense to me.
Ron Crowley
>In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful
>Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
>This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
<edit>
Come on people. This individual is sick, he does not deserve your
wrath. How would Jesus have spoken to him?
Ron
kcaj
Jesus would have healed him the same way he healed the demoniac.
kcaj
>Who is the Son of Darkness? Please tell me. I'm so curious I'll
>never rest until I find out the truth.
>
>
>Look in the mirror, idiot.?
Which mirror the one Alice looked in before she tripped into
Wonderland? Are you a follower of the Koreshian fire
philosophies? You think I am the "Son of Darkness," whatever that
is? Is the Son of Darkness the anti-christ or the product of one
of Koreah's alleged sexual encounters? The differences between
Koresh and Jim Jones is Jones led approximately 800 or so more
fools to their deaths. Another major difference is Jones molested
10 or so little girls and 4 or 5 guys the day and week his cult
murdered themselves. Medical personal couldn't keep Morphine in
Jone's cult for pain because Jim liked to take it to get high. I
think Koreah's biggest alleged problem was he was involved with
selling methamphetamine to buy guns and David was probably on
speed himself. Hard to understand how "messiah" Koresh of the
house of David could be selling and using crank. I know people
have lied against this, but Koresh was crazy enough to do any
thing. Jim Jones was probably more demented than Koresh, but
that's only subject to speculation. Do you really think Koresh is
of the bloodline of David and was Jesus Christ? Jesus of the
Bible is read, known and mentioned every day, has been for around
2,000 years and will be known from now on. Koresh is all but
forgotten and after this generation if over, Koreshwill be
completely forgotten. Nobody in the future is going to care
enough to keep a memorial alive to Koresh and his sick followers
either. He's just dust and a flower whose blossom has faded and
he's all but forgotten. A blasphemous lunatic who's gone the way
of all the others...........................
>
>
Libertarius
===>OK, I'll buy that, since it does fit the geography I mentioned,
Antiochus Theos having lived in the mid-third century (d. 247 B.C.E)
and having ruled as king of Syria (about 261–247 B.C.E.)
Thus, Assyria (Syria) remains the one territory that is referred to
and can be referred to) as the kingdom of "the North", with respect
to
the land of Israel.
Biblical predictions were often left deliberately vague, so they
could be interpreted in many ways. But, since the author of "Daniel"
lived about the time of the above mentioned kings, specifically at
the time
of Antiochus IV, Epiphanes (175-164 B.C.), the above may be correct
and would be a strong support that they were not predictions at all
but reports
of recent history and current events, with the preceding chapters being
just
a lengthy introduction to its main point, predicting the end of Greek
rule
and the coming of the kingdom of YHWH, no doubt in the form of the
rule
of the Maccabees.
Libertarius
===========
Douglas Berry
Ron Crowley <crowley2*NOSPAM*@ix.netcom.com> warmed at our fire and
told this tale:
>Come on people. This individual is sick, he does not deserve your
>wrath. How would Jesus have spoken to him?
In Amaraic.
But that's besides the point. For those of us more interested in
reality than mythology, he's a royal pain in the butt.
Dave Holloway
>
>On June 24th [2300 days] will have passed since David was
>killed. On that day the sanctuary will be cleansed and it will be
>the beginning of terror in this world like no man has ever seen
>ever was since there was a man to receive it.
I don't suppose you'd sign over your entire estate to me, effective
June 25th?
Dave
--
From the warped mind of Dave Holloway, #1184
Quotemeister Emeritus; DDS, EAC Mars Division; Disgruntled Merkin
THE NEW ATHEOLOGICAL THINKING: http://atheist.8k.com
Ron Crowley
>On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:54:25 -0300, a wanderer, known to us only as
>Ron Crowley <crowley2*NOSPAM*@ix.netcom.com> warmed at our fire and
>told this tale:
>
>>Come on people. This individual is sick, he does not deserve your
>>wrath. How would Jesus have spoken to him?
>On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:43:52 -0700, Douglas Berry
<grid...@mindspring.com> gave us this insite into his personality:
>In Amaraic.
>
>But that's besides the point. For those of us more interested in
>reality than mythology, he's a royal pain in the butt.
If you're not interested in mythology, why would you post on a bible
NG. The bible is a book of myth.
Ron
Boogey Man
"kcaj" <kcaj_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3d04ea65...@news.charter.net...
the topic of Waco and the slaughter of all those people by the US government
to speak about a supposed fulfillment of biblical prohecy wherein the person
posting said
"The cruelty of our own hearts will bring on this
destruction, leaving us with no argument before God's judgment.
We are, without doubt, the worst generation this world has ever
known. Moreover, we will reap the reward of having earned this
title. Damned be the Son of Darkness!"
This may be too hard for you to accept that we are the worst generation this
world has ever known but that doesn't make it a lie. There are children of
light and there are children of darkness. Anyone with any light on inside at
all knows that our government attacked that church because they were
building an arsenal of guns and ammunition, not because of any criminal
behavior within the church. They set the place on fire and shot women and
children dead in their tracks when they tried to escape the building. Only a
small handful of people lived. You know nothing about the Bible and even
less about the Seventh Day Adventists or the Branch Davidians.
To compare David Koresh with Jim Jones is ludicrous. David Koresh obviously
didn't intend any of his people to become martyrs when the government came
after them. Why else the guns and ammo?
I am from Indianapolis and I doubt very much you know more about the
government's involvement in the entire Jim Jones affair than the people of
Indianapolis do. You can read all the contrived cover stories after the fact
that you like and you know squat.
If you think it's a good thing for President Bush to set aside due process
of law and break all international and domestic laws and be preparing to
declare a state of martial law in our own country all in the name of WAR, I
think you are the lunatic.
If you ever read the news and have any clue what's been going on in the
Middle East or Afghanistan and what fossil fuels have to do with any of it (
as well as the money-grubbing crooks who are running our world deliberately
making a religious conflict out of the whole thing and then denying any such
idea), then you might figure out that the whole situation could blow up any
time. The Moslems are not ignorant cavemen and mentally retarded desert
rats. And, it is commonly believed that they are very definitely in
possession of the nuclear arms we have been selling them for the past couple
decades.
The modern translation of Armageddon is Mt. Megiddo. Mt. Megiddo just
happens to be the headquarters of Israel's nuclear armament. The battle of
Mt. Megiddo--are you getting the picture yet or are you still in your dark
atheist room thinking anyone who believes in the Bible is just some crazy
"fundamentalist".
Every time the Moslems have done anything they announced it ahead of time to
somebody who told somebody else and so on and so on.... And mostly only
other Moslems gave these announcements any respect--until they came true.
I don't know the guy who has been posting about Waco and I don't belong to
his church nor their parent denomination, Seventh Day Adventists. But there
is a Seventh Day that will advent soon.
Also, I think you should maybe check the header on your posts and see what
groupS you are posting replies to. Your reply is going out to every group
the original post went to.
I think people are mainly blind only because they want to be. One day soon
that will no longer be an option. Of course in the meanwhile, you are still
as entitled to your opinion as the other guy is to his.
My opinion is that you and people like you are the mentally deficient. I
viewed and replied to this post from alt.consciousness.mysticism.
Douglas Berry
>If you're not interested in mythology, why would you post on a bible
>NG. The bible is a book of myth.
I'm reading this in alt.conspiracy.
I like mythology as a roadmap to our past, but I'm always amused by
the people who actually believe these things.
X98
"Steve Knight" <BA...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:jjn7gucngcnmtbusn...@4ax.com...
Yes it does, just like it does are billions of other people who
think the whole fucking world revolves around a wacked out cult
shaman known to them as the Messiah!
The faithless cannot understand this nor will they ever. There
are those who have been created for the fire and in the fire they
will reside.
X98
X98
>
> I won't curse you out or follow these mostly other true
> responses. I have to say you are one mixed up dude. You're the
> one mentioning the Bible. If you're going to talk about the
Bible
> all the time at last get it right or get it along the lines of
> what most people who read and understand it. Koresh must have
> been so mixed up he didn't even know what planet he was on. If
> people really thought Koresh was Jesus Christ, they were really
> worshipping satan. Koresh makes British Identity and it's
> American cousins look like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
You clearly have little understanding of what David taught. Like
most Americans you feed on the Zionist media as if it was the tit
of your mother. David never said he was Jesus Christ, peace be
upon him. You are zealous, but zealous ignorance will only lead
you into confusion. I suggest you apply some humility before you
judge these people who were killed for the word of God and the
testimony which they held.
Me insane? Why thank for he complement. To be considered
otherwise by this world would be a terrifying insult. First of
all you nor anyone else can interpret the Book. Daniel is sealed
to the end of the days. Only the Lamb can open the book. The
proof that David Koresh was the lamb is that he was able to open
the Book. But did he in fact open it? How would you know if all
you know about him is what was told to you by the murderers? Find
some humility in your heart and center on that so that wisdom
might be given to you. Only those that are brave enough to look
upon their own shame will see the truth at this time, because we
are in the judgment. The judgment comes to the church first. Are
you willing to see the depth of your evil heart and forget what
you are to the sons of man and come up heather? Stand before the
light of God and see your shame.
The Davidians did not die... the were murdered according to the
prophecies of Daniel by the King of the North. The issue I was
directing your attention to is that the church that now stands
there was founded on the Sabbath. I have a reward of $500.00
offered to anyone that can show me a church dedicated to the God
of Abraham, (AS) that is founded on the Sabbath. There is no such
thing except here in Waco. It is the Abomination that Maketh
Desolate. This is the sign for which these people gave their
lives.
> >Since that day, I have been trying to warn people of what has
> >taken place here in Waco. Aside from this issue, I have no
reason
> >for being on this Internet.
>
> Nobody understands this but you and maybe your own type. Is
this
> why you are on the Internet to place information that nobody
can
> understand? Especially some type of Biblical understanding that
> isn't found in the Bible.
Humility Humility Humility Humility Humility
Humility Humility Humility Humility Humility
Humility Humility Humility Humility Humility
>
> >
> >On June 24th [2300 days] will have passed since David was
> >killed. On that day the sanctuary will be cleansed and it will
be
> >the beginning of terror in this world like no man has ever
seen
> >ever was since there was a man to receive it.
>
> This isn't in the Holy Bible. You speak of the Jewish temple
like
> it is found at Waco Texas. The terror you speak of is in
relation
> to the antichrist who will Biblically sit in the new Temple in
> Israel and force everybody on earh to worship him. None of the
> Jewish prophets had ever heard of Texas and historical and
modern
> Israel isn't anywhere near Waco.
What makes you thing that the vision of the prophets were
contained by the material existence? They saw through time and
space. Just because you are limited does not mean they were nor
does it mean that everyone around you suffers your blindness.
> >
> >I have posted a request for a discussion on these issues
knowing
> >that no one would respond. There have been attempts by Mark
Swett
> >and others to misdirect the subject matter,
>
> Misdirect subject matter? I have never seen any other cult
> corrupt the Holy Bible as much as this person in Koresh's
> "butt-holy" name.
Koresh is the surname of God you fool.... Isa. 45
>
> > but my job and
> >responsibilities to the Martyrs are my only concerns. I will
not
> >stray from my appointed task. What I have written is of no
> >importance to people, just as the torture and murder of the
> >Davidians are of no importance. It seems that people are
> >concerned with the Martyrs only in so far as it assists them
in
> >their personal agendas. Nevertheless, the day will come when
> >these words will be considered with great sorrow and regret
for
>
> You speak of these "martyrs" as great men of faith who died for
> the truth when actually they were demented lunatics who threw
> their lives away. I mean if you're going to believe something
at
> least try to get it at least half-way right. Why don't you just
> start following L. Ron Hubbard? You're as far-out as he was and
> at least you could have something more tangible, from your
views,
> to incorporate your Koreshian philosophies into. Maybe turn
> Koresh into a temple cult and place his statue next to Elvis
and
> burn incense and a gas lamp twenty four hours a day.
> >not having heeded the warning.
there seems to be a mental disease among Christian that causes
them to speak about things that they have no knowledge of. But
then what can be expected of people that think they are going to
heaven and everybody that doesn't think the way they do are going
to hell. seems to me that registering under your faith is a
prerequisite to property ownership at the center of hell
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/993
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/1065
> >
> >I wish there were more time to tell you of the things I have
> >learn here in Waco over the last six years, but it appears
that
> >this will not be. The vile suffering that is to come upon all
> >those that dwell on the earth is not George Bush's fault.
Sure,
> >he is the King of the North
>
> When these prophecies where predicted due North was
approximately
> where modern day Russian is. The ancient Hebrew prophets were
> talking about what is probably modern-day Russia. If they had
> been speaking from Waco, they would have meant Canada or the
> Artic Circle. How can Bush be the Biblical King of the North.
> There isn't anything in the Bible that even remotely points to
> this. Were the ancient Israelites in Rio or Panama?
King of the North is the one from Israel (the ten tribes) in the
latter days.
>
> > that will kill billions, but he can
> >do nothing without our help. How righteous will be our torment
> >visa-vie the suffering this nation has brought upon the
> >oppressed. The cruelty of our own hearts will bring on this
> >destruction, leaving us with no argument before God's
judgment.
>
> The cruelty you mention is the suffering your minds are
enduring.
> Tormenting yourselves with delusions based on your
misconceptions
> of what the Bible plainly says.
My interpretation of the Bible are based on the light brought by
David Koresh, whose are your based on. Privet interpretations
maybe?
> >We are, without doubt, the worst generation this world has
ever
> >known. Moreover, we will reap the reward of having earned this
> >title. Damned be the Son of Darkness!
>
> Who is the Son of Darkness? Please tell me. I'm so curious I'll
> never rest until I find out the truth.
Do you know nothing of the Scrolls? The Sons of Darkness are the
Kittim (Roam) in the last days. They are those that align with
American and Israel the Mother of Harlots.
stoney
ID: <blNM8.211418$Q42.9...@typhoon.austin.rr.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
>In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful
>Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
>This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
Good, then follow your leader and have yourself nailed to a couple
of 2 x 4's like a good slave.
(snip fecal matter)
--
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
stoney
<crowley2*NOSPAM*@ix.netcom.com>, Message ID:
<oTkFPQRSt3V4Gr...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
(sigh) How about looking to see who initiated the latest
crossposting?
chibiabos
<X...@hot.rr.com> wrote:
> David Koresh said:
"I told you motherfuckers not to smoke in th . . . Auuggghhhh!!!"
-chib
--
Member of SMASH:
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
(email: change out to in)
X98
Where do you get this crap. At first I just though you were
ignorant, but these lies are too well developed ad are not found
even in the standard government lies. You are either working for
the murders to cover their tracks or a psychotic. So common slick
which is it; are you a tailored make freak or a natural cistern
of human dilution?
X98
X98
"Boogey Man" <pi_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ugaqs2a...@corp.supernews.com...
The church was not attacked because of any weapons. I spoke to
Sheriff Harwell in 97 about the attack. He told me that he had
many dealing with David and that if there were any problem he
simply called David on the phone and David would come immediately
to his office.
If there had been any concern for the children or if standard
police procedure had been followed, they would have taken David
when he was away from Mt.Carmel, but clearly they were not
interested in David. What they wanted was breaking the will of
those who believed that Christ is King and not the Zionist forces
of the jews who say they are jerws and are not. After 50 days of
torture and mutilation, the government set fire to the church to
cover their crimes. The sad fact is that they really didn't have
to do that, because the people of this world would have believed
any lie told to them. Even if no lie were offered, one would have
been created by the public to excuse their crime of complacency.
We will do anything rather than look at our shame.
They set the place on fire and shot women and
> children dead in their tracks when they tried to escape the
building. Only a
> small handful of people lived.
This is the commonly held position of the public. It has been
injected into our conscious by a government produced film "Waco
The Rules of Engagement" This film was produced by the C.O.P.S.
corporation under the direction of government agent Mike McNulty.
Please read this review of the film by Carol Valentine. She is by
far the finest investigator of the Waco Holocaust.
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/doc/wtro
e.html
Also consider her review of a film that outlines the beginning of
my three year protest against the current government control of
Mt.Carmel.
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/doc/x98_
rev.html
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_k
ce.html
Review the Autopsy reports to see the mutilation.
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/map/d_lis
t00.html
Track the cover-up in the court system.
http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_w
sws.html
>You know nothing about the Bible and even
> less about the Seventh Day Adventists or the Branch Davidians.
Yesterday I would have agreed, but this guy is too far out of
reality to be for real. I think he is just feeding the fringe
psychotics. Nobody can be this stupid... evil yes, but not this
stupid.
>
> To compare David Koresh with Jim Jones is ludicrous. David
Koresh obviously
> didn't intend any of his people to become martyrs when the
government came
> after them. Why else the guns and ammo?
You are right on with this one. The guns were brought into the
picture in 1990 when the King of the North showed two major signs
that convinced David that he was to be Martyred here in Waco.
Even a basic study of the Davidian movement will show that the
group believed American forces, while under the control of
Zionism, would murder them in Israel They would not murder or
attack, but they would defend their families to the death. At
that time Mt.Carmel became "The daughter of Jerusalem," where the
prophecies would be fulfilled.
The two signs were (1) In 1990 America put its bases between the
two great seas and more importantly (2) Russia was overthrown by
the Bush administration. (BTW these were the same people that are
now in control of our government). The Biblical significance of
this was that the little horn power had plucked up the third of
the three horns that were before it. At that time David began to
build the House of David and to arm the community for a
confrontation that they knew would result in their deaths. All of
this was to take place at the end of the seventy weeks. To
comprehend this it is most important to realize that to the
Davidians, David Koresh was playing the part of "The Daily." That
being so, there was to be 1290 days between the killing of David
and the setting up of the Abomination that Maketh Desolate. This
is the sign that Jesus said to look for and this is the sign they
showed. Being blinded by our feeling, we see only the
manifestation and fail to realize the mystery.
>
> I am from Indianapolis and I doubt very much you know more
about the
> government's involvement in the entire Jim Jones affair than
the people of
> Indianapolis do. You can read all the contrived cover stories
after the fact
> that you like and you know squat.
Are you aware that the best of all Waco videos was made by Linda
Thompson from Indianapolis? "Waco The Big Lie" shows that this
government not only murdered their own agents, but has clear
proof that they murdered little children on that first day.
http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/waco/waco3.html
How strange! Not that you know these things, but that you are
saying them. Of course you know that by letting it be known that
you are not sleeping you have identified yourself to the
terrorists. You are one of the ones that will have to be dealt
with. On this you can eb sure. Maybe you will be declared an
"enemy combatant" because you have been siding with the enemy of
the state, i. e., the truth. Telling the truth in America is soon
to be listed as a capital crime. This is our national standard
even now, but the charade must continue for a short time
>
> Every time the Moslems have done anything they announced it
ahead of time to
> somebody who told somebody else and so on and so on.... And
mostly only
> other Moslems gave these announcements any respect--until they
came true.
Do you really think Muslims are responsible for 911? The evidence
convicting this nation and Israel as the true terrorists, is
beyond critical mass.
http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/physics_1.html
Livingstone Fagan, spokesman for the Dravidians, has declared
that the United States, Israel and Britain are responsible for
the 911 terror.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/message/1
>
> I don't know the guy who has been posting about Waco and I
don't belong to
> his church nor their parent denomination, Seventh Day
Adventists. But there
> is a Seventh Day that will advent soon.
Noah brought the Sabbath message. Those that listened to it
entered into the rest. David's massage is also the Sabbath
message. But what was it? How can we enter into its rest if we
don't even know what David was talking about?
This is the message that David sent Livingstone out of Mt.Carmel
with on March 23, 1993. Livingston's mother and wife were
mutilated and found in the hallway area after the fire.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreshX98/files/Rev13.htm
>
> Also, I think you should maybe check the header on your posts
and see what
> groupS you are posting replies to. Your reply is going out to
every group
> the original post went to.
>
> I think people are mainly blind only because they want to be.
One day soon
> that will no longer be an option. Of course in the meanwhile,
you are still
> as entitled to your opinion as the other guy is to his.
>
> My opinion is that you and people like you are the mentally
deficient. I
> viewed and replied to this post from
alt.consciousness.mysticism.
Then there are people that are saying these things because the
are evil. You might say they are spiritually deficient. The Sons
of light are to hate the Sons of Darkness with all their hearts
with a perfect hatred. How long are Lying maggots to be tolerated
in the garden of truth?
Not long.... Not long at all.
X98
Londonspish
> Saturday, June 08, 2002
>
> This is the end. My work is all but finished on this Internet.
> people of this world. Thousands have heard, but few have
> listened. My wish is that you would listen; but your reaction to
> my words is not my concern. My only concern is that, I do my work
> as the watchman of Mt.Carmel and continue it until the
> "Abomination That Maketh Desolate" is destroyed and David's house
> is restored to it former glory.
We wish you luck, Gandalf.
--
Iain
Axster
and hope you find what you're looking for - it wasn't here.
Jim Asherman
X98 wrote:
Texas terrorist predictions.
Luckily we don't have to wait too long.
Jim Asherman
X98 wrote:
Very nice. Wacko.
number six
Only 11 days to go thank you.
raven1
>
>Only 11 days to go thank you.
You are not a number. You are a free man!
Douglas Berry
raven1 <psyched...@flashmail.com> warmed at our fire and told
this tale:
>On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:41:17 -0400, number six <#6...@village.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>Only 11 days to go thank you.
>
>You are not a number. You are a free man!
We want... information
Information.
hypa...@comcast.net
"number six" <#6...@village.org> wrote in message
news:3D093BAD...@village.org...
>
> Only 11 days to go thank you.
>
Pastor Dave
<grid...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:52:42 GMT, a wanderer, known to us only as
>raven1 <psyched...@flashmail.com> warmed at our fire and told
>this tale:
>
>>On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:41:17 -0400, number six <#6...@village.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Only 11 days to go thank you.
>>
>>You are not a number. You are a free man!
>
>We want... information
>
>Information.
Who is number 1?
___
In Christ,
Pastor Dave
"And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose
for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether
the gods which your fathers served that were on the
other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites,
in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house,
we will serve the Lord." - Joshua 24:15
number six
raven1 wrote:
I used to be John Drake !
number six
Douglas Berry wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:52:42 GMT, a wanderer, known to us only as
> raven1 <psyched...@flashmail.com> warmed at our fire and told
> this tale:
>
>
>>On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:41:17 -0400, number six <#6...@village.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Only 11 days to go thank you.
>>>
>>You are not a number. You are a free man!
>>
>
> We want... information
>
> Information.
>
>
You won't get it!
number six
Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:03:49 -0700, Douglas Berry
> <grid...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:52:42 GMT, a wanderer, known to us only as
>>raven1 <psyched...@flashmail.com> warmed at our fire and told
>>this tale:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:41:17 -0400, number six <#6...@village.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Only 11 days to go thank you.
>>>>
>>>You are not a number. You are a free man!
>>>
>>We want... information
>>
>>Information.
>>
>
> Who is number 1?
I am number 6.
number six
hypa...@comcast.net wrote:
probably quite few. Thankfully it is not too long to wait. When it passes he will rationalize a new date.
J6
Douglas Berry
number six <#6...@village.org> warmed at our fire and told this tale:
By hook or by crook, we will.
(Is The Prisoner out on DVD yet?)
number six
Douglas Berry wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:23:50 -0400, a wanderer, known to us only as
> number six <#6...@village.org> warmed at our fire and told this tale:
>
>
>>
>>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:52:42 GMT, a wanderer, known to us only as
>>>raven1 <psyched...@flashmail.com> warmed at our fire and told
>>>this tale:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:41:17 -0400, number six <#6...@village.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Only 11 days to go thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>You are not a number. You are a free man!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>We want... information
>>>
>>>Information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>You won't get it!
>>
>
> By hook or by crook, we will.
>
> (Is The Prisoner out on DVD yet?)
>
>
Coincidentally yes.
Douglas Berry
Pastor Dave <nospam-p...@conceptz.net> warmed at our fire and
told this tale:
>>Information.
>
>Who is number 1?
You are nunber 6
number six
X98 wrote:
>9 days to go.
I am tingling
number six
Nothing noteworthy coming out of texas.
No angels oof Death coming out of thhe skies.
I hope you can now abbandon your obsession with a false prophet.
sheep defender
If they abandoned their obsession with false prophets how would they then
continue to manipulate and control other innocent people? It's always
been a dilemma for religionists..
Pastor Frank
news:sdsdsdsdsd-25...@lc01219.zianet.com...
like your mom was one of those, and caught you masturbating, and you
started feeling "controlled" from the moment she told you, that God doesn't
love masturbators? ROFLMAO
You are not alone, in fact most atheists here stepped down from their
beliefs, because they were ticked off by a religionist for some sinful life
style they love to practice.
--
Pastor Frank
43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and
hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
Jesse Nowells
On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> > If they abandoned their obsession with false prophets how would they then
> > continue to manipulate and control other innocent people? It's always
> > been a dilemma for religionists.
> LOL Why the protests about being "controlled" by "religionists"? Sounds
> like your mom was one of those, and caught you masturbating, and you
> started feeling "controlled" from the moment she told you, that God doesn't
> love masturbators? ROFLMAO
Since you have no credible evidence for god, you don't have a clue as to
whether or not god loves masturbators or not. Since you claim to emulate
Jesus, one would have to conclude that Jesus is a fucking asshole.
Al Klein
<jnow...@transbay.net> posted in alt.atheism:
[piggybacking]
>On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
>
>> > If they abandoned their obsession with false prophets how would they then
>> > continue to manipulate and control other innocent people? It's always
>> > been a dilemma for religionists.
>
>> LOL Why the protests about being "controlled" by "religionists"? Sounds
>> like your mom was one of those, and caught you masturbating, and you
>> started feeling "controlled" from the moment she told you, that God doesn't
>> love masturbators? ROFLMAO
Why are you so obsessed with the masturbation of others, Frank?
>Since you have no credible evidence for god, you don't have a clue as to
>whether or not god loves masturbators or not. Since you claim to emulate
>Jesus, one would have to conclude that Jesus is a fucking asshole.
If Jesus was like Frank, we'd have to conclude that Jesus was an
unfucking asshole. Then again, considering who he hung out with, he
was more likely an asshole fucker.
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
Zymurgist # 2
Pastor Frank
news:Pine.BSF.4.31.0206272117400.43292-100000@localhost...
What "credible evidence" for love do you want, except of course proving the
existence of God in all you do, and especially by the way you treat others?
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.
31: And the second is alike, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Timothy Skowronek
"Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
news:10255272...@arakis.wincom.net...
> "Jesse Nowells" <jnow...@transbay.net> wrote in message
> news:Pine.BSF.4.31.0206272117400.43292-100000@localhost...
> > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> > >
> > > LOL Why the protests about being "controlled" by "religionists"?
Sounds
> > > like your mom was one of those, and caught you masturbating, and you
> > > started feeling "controlled" from the moment she told you, that God
> doesn't
> > > love masturbators? ROFLMAO
> >
> > Since you have no credible evidence for god, you don't have a clue as to
> > whether or not god loves masturbators or not. Since you claim to
emulate
> > Jesus, one would have to conclude that Jesus is a fucking asshole.
> >
> You haven't been listening Jesse! Our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16).
> What "credible evidence" for love do you want, except of course proving
the
> existence of God in all you do, and especially by the way you treat
others?
You would think, after all this time, Frankie would find the real
definitions to "credible", "evidence" and "proof".
Babble, Babble Babble...
Bigdaddyking
says...
>
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> news:10255272...@arakis.wincom.net...
> > "Jesse Nowells" <jnow...@transbay.net> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.BSF.4.31.0206272117400.43292-100000@localhost...
> > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> > > >
> > > > LOL Why the protests about being "controlled" by "religionists"?
> Sounds
> > > > like your mom was one of those, and caught you masturbating, and you
> > > > started feeling "controlled" from the moment she told you, that God
> > doesn't
> > > > love masturbators? ROFLMAO
> > >
> > > Since you have no credible evidence for god, you don't have a clue as to
> > > whether or not god loves masturbators or not. Since you claim to
> emulate
> > > Jesus, one would have to conclude that Jesus is a fucking asshole.
> > >
> > You haven't been listening Jesse! Our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16).
> > What "credible evidence" for love do you want, except of course proving
> the
> > existence of God in all you do, and especially by the way you treat
> others?
>
> You would think, after all this time, Frankie would find the real
> definitions to "credible", "evidence" and "proof".
>
> Babble, Babble Babble...
>
>
Frank just thinks if he says god=love that that proves his "logic" is
correct, but it's just more Frankish drivel that he's been spouting for
so long. My favorite "frankism" is the "going into a burning building"
nonsense he was stuck on for so long. If there was a god, he'd really be
pissed at Frank, since he has done so much to trash his own religion with
all the bitter crap he's spouted for so long.
BDK
Pastor Frank
news:e80U8.527$Ye.1...@news.iquest.net...
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> news:10255272...@arakis.wincom.net...
> > "Jesse Nowells" <jnow...@transbay.net> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.BSF.4.31.0206272117400.43292-100000@localhost...
> > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> > > >
> > > > LOL Why the protests about being "controlled" by "religionists"?
> Sounds
> > > > like your mom was one of those, and caught you masturbating, and
you
> > > > started feeling "controlled" from the moment she told you, that God
> > doesn't
> > > > love masturbators? ROFLMAO
> > >
> > > Since you have no credible evidence for god, you don't have a clue as
to
> > > whether or not god loves masturbators or not. Since you claim to
> emulate
> > > Jesus, one would have to conclude that Jesus is a fucking asshole.
> > >
> > You haven't been listening Jesse! Our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16).
> > What "credible evidence" for love do you want, except of course proving
> > the existence of God in all you do, and especially by the way you treat
> > others?
>
> You would think, after all this time, Frankie would find the real
> definitions to "credible", "evidence" and "proof".
> Babble, Babble Babble...
>
caring to others, mostly because atheists usually think only of themselves.
And one needs to be careful saying "I love you" to an atheist, because they
immediately retort "prove it!!!".
I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What do
you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call you
a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
invective.
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth.
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God
is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Billy Goat
> I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What do
> you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call you
> a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
> invective.
We're not asking for proof of love. We're asking for proof that love
does what the Bible's God does: responds to prayers, creates
universes, kicks sinners out of the garden of Eden, judges the living
and the dead, etc.
--Billy
Pastor Frank
news:6bd3c70a.0207...@posting.google.com...
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
news:<10256330...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> >
> > everything we do.
> > I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What
do
> > you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call
you
> > a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
> > invective.
>
> We're not asking for proof of love.
Since "God is love" see ref. above, that IS what you are asking.
> We're asking for proof that love
> does what the Bible's God does: responds to prayers, creates
> universes, kicks sinners out of the garden of Eden, judges the living
> and the dead, etc.
>
That is a matter of belief and faith, not of facts in evidence. Don't
you have ANY beliefs which are salutory and don't put down others?
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
Douglas Berry
"Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> warmed at our fire and told
this tale:
> Yes. It does seem a major problem for atheists to evidence love and
>caring to others, mostly because atheists usually think only of themselves.
>And one needs to be careful saying "I love you" to an atheist, because they
>immediately retort "prove it!!!".
Actually, my usual response is "thank you."
Frank, you seem to be quite judgmental, which is directly in contrast
to Christ's teachings.
> I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What do
>you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call you
>a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
>invective.
In my case, immediate curing of all the problems associated with my
Hodgkin's Disease, not limited to the epilepsy and dental damage.
This would be accompanied by clear knowledge of which deity did this.
Otherwise, I might as well assume that this gift was from Mercury, in
his role as God of Medicine.
I love my wife. I can't tell you why or show you a lump labeled
"Doug's love for Kirsten." But the difference between my wife and
your God is that my wife is here. You can see, hear and touch her.
She exists. You cannot prove that your, or any, God exists.
M
> caring to others, mostly because atheists usually think only of
themselves.
What a load of bollocks! I do not believe in any kind of a god. I do what I
do because I want to, not for the fear of what a non-existant, invisible
entity wants me to do.
Ever heard of humanists?
> And one needs to be careful saying "I love you" to an atheist, because
they
> immediately retort "prove it!!!".
Have you never said so someone who told you they loved you "why? What is it
about me that makes me special?"
Mostly I either give them a kiss on the cheak and smile, kiss them on the
lips and snog, or just get down to it and go own and kiss them somewhere
nice *grins*
> I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What do
> you think?
Gargle! If they are only serious they swallow, if it's love - gargle!
>Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call you
> a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
> invective.
you lying fucker! Cite evidence for this!
If it's happened to you like this in the past, I think you should look to
yourself. Whoever it was realised you were a mean, irrational, and
mean-spirited person
> 1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
That doesn't parse!
> 1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
>God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Lies! I DO NOT 'dwelleth' in any so-called 'god'! I AM deaply in love with
my girlfriend. One counter-example disproves the premise. Your statement is
False!
Billy Goat
> "Billy Goat" <eric...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:6bd3c70a.0207...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> news:<10256330...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > >
> > > "God is love" (1John 4:8) and we are charged with proving God in
> > > everything we do.
> > > I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What
> do
> > > you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call
> you
> > > a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
> > > invective.
> >
> > We're not asking for proof of love.
>
> Since "God is love" see ref. above, that IS what you are asking.
>
> > We're asking for proof that love
> > does what the Bible's God does: responds to prayers, creates
> > universes, kicks sinners out of the garden of Eden, judges the living
> > and the dead, etc.
> >
> That is a matter of belief and faith, not of facts in evidence.
Then there's no penalty for doubting things that aren't facts.
> Don't
> you have ANY beliefs which are salutory and don't put down others?
Yes. I believe that humans are basically good, and nobody deserves Hell.
--Billy
Pastor Frank
news:afvf2t$1oq$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> >
> > caring to others, mostly because atheists usually think only of
> themselves.
>
> What a load of bollocks! I do not believe in any kind of a god. I do what
I
> do because I want to, not for the fear of what a non-existant, invisible
> entity wants me to do.
>
believe in our God.. Now you want it both ways and do believe in love. Make
up your mind, willya?
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth.
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> >
> > you have ANY beliefs which are salutory and don't put down others?
>
> Yes. I believe that humans are basically good, and nobody deserves Hell.
> --Billy
>
that. But if you want to live with your eyes and ears firmly shut, ignoring
mass graves and the screams of the tortured of this word, then you will
waste your life, leaving no improvements whatever.
You and I, as well as Pol Pot will reap what we sow. That is justice.
Are you sowing good, evil or nothing at all?
--
Pastor Frank
Though you are right about "love" not being subject to man's will,
Biblical "love" means 'care' in modern English, hence caritas, charity being
used as alternative words. "Care" IS subject to man's will, and we are to
passionately care about each other's welfare to bring about the Kingdom of
God.
Pastor Frank
news:ev16iu8d879u6o98q...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:02:46 -0400, a wanderer, known to us only as
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> warmed at our fire and told
> this tale:
>
> > Yes. It does seem a major problem for atheists to evidence love and
> >caring to others, mostly because atheists usually think only of
themselves.
> >And one needs to be careful saying "I love you" to an atheist, because
they
> >immediately retort "prove it!!!".
>
> Actually, my usual response is "thank you."
>
> Frank, you seem to be quite judgmental, which is directly in contrast
> to Christ's teachings.
>
specifies, that "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and that we are charged to
prove our God to others every minute of our lives, and now this atheist asks
you to prove the existence of your God?
Or are you doing nothing yourself, except criticizing what other
Christians are doing?
>
> > I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What
do
> >you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call
you
> >a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
> >invective.
>
> In my case, immediate curing of all the problems associated with my
> Hodgkin's Disease, not limited to the epilepsy and dental damage.
> This would be accompanied by clear knowledge of which deity did this.
> Otherwise, I might as well assume that this gift was from Mercury, in
> his role as God of Medicine.
> I love my wife. I can't tell you why or show you a lump labeled
> "Doug's love for Kirsten." But the difference between my wife and
> your God is that my wife is here. You can see, hear and touch her.
> She exists. You cannot prove that your, or any, God exists.
>
fantasy god of yours, which definitely doesn't exist.
Read the holy and inerrant words of Christ below, and believe Him and in
Him ONLY
Baloney
>>
> Our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and you keep telling us that you
> don't
> believe in our God.. Now you want it both ways and do believe in love.
> Make up your mind, willya?
> --
Our money is green. Does that mean that you believe that everything green
is money?
Jesse Nowells
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> Our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and you keep telling us that you don't
> believe in our God.. Now you want it both ways and do believe in love. Make
> up your mind, willya?
God is no more love than love is god. The terms don't match. An appeal to
authority doesn't justify it.
9
or Pol Pot unleashed their orgy of deth?
Lokking down on his creation and seeing it was good?
Someone said after world war two
"With smoke of jews went up the smoke of the image of god
Pastor Frank
have no reference for whatever. This fact alone disqualifies you to make any
comment on theism at all. "God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same definition
we apply to that word.
Michael Derousselle
<fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote:
>"Jesse Nowells" <jnow...@transbay.net> wrote in message
>news:Pine.BSF.4.31.0207040329160.33584-100000@localhost...
>> On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
>> >
>> > Our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and you keep telling us that you don't
>> > believe in our God.. Now you want it both ways and do believe in love.
>Make
>> > up your mind, willya?
>>
>> God is no more love than love is god. The terms don't match. An appeal to
>> authority doesn't justify it.
>>
> It's more like you using words for which you don't know the meaning, and
>have no reference for whatever. This fact alone disqualifies you to make any
>comment on theism at all. "God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
>definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same definition
>we apply to that word.
That was a hollow defense.
*********************************************
* Michael Derousselle *
* Alt.Atheism #1948 *
* mi...@derousselle.org *
*********************************************
WWJD...for a Klondike Bar!
Jesse Nowells
On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> "God" is a proprietary theistic word, ...
You can define the word anyway you want but if it doesn't have an actual
referent, or it's debatable if how you use the word makes any sense or
not, you can't dodge those issues by claiming it's your private property.
Your snivelling & weasling special pleading is ridiculous.
Pastor Frank
>
> yes Frank this is very good question indeed .Where was god when Hitler
> or Pol Pot unleashed their orgy of deth?
> Lokking down on his creation and seeing it was good?
> Someone said after world war two
>
as God's sons, it's up to us to improve upon God's creation till we bring
about the Kingdom of Heaven. This is our whole purpose in life. It is NOT
sitting back complaining about God not doing it all by Himself, we just
being the nagging critics.
--
Pastor Frank
Lk:9:56: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save
them. And they went to another village.
Jn:12:47: And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not:
for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Pastor Frank
"God".
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth.
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God
is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Hugh Young
<fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> said:
> Yes. It does seem a major problem for atheists to evidence love and
>caring to others, mostly because atheists usually think only of themselves.
This is absolutely false, I know heaps of unselfish atheists. What's
more interesting in what drives PF to badmouth us so consistently.
Sure isn't any god of love.
>And one needs to be careful saying "I love you" to an atheist, because they
>immediately retort "prove it!!!".
Liar.
> I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What do
>you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call you
>a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
>invective.
Pot. Kettle. Only we don't claim to worship a god of love.
>Jesus in Jn:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
>him in spirit and in truth.
I have no idea what this means, and I suspect that nobody else does.
One possible reading is that "in spirit" means turn their minds to
worship, and "in truth" means do good works, eg loving their
neighbour. In fact there are plenty of parables saying that loving
your neighbour is the big thing and then loving G*d will take care of
itself.
In that case, most of us have no need to worry about the pseudo-Pascal
question, "What if you're wrong?" We'll be able to stand before the
Heavenly Throne with heads held high and say, "Well we didn't believe
in you but we loved our neighbour," and if She sends us to Hell after
that she's just a big meanie. But dollars to doughnuts it'll never
happen.
aa #158
Billy Goat
> "Billy Goat" <eric...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:6bd3c70a.02070...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > Don't
> > > you have ANY beliefs which are salutory and don't put down others?
> >
> > Yes. I believe that humans are basically good, and nobody deserves Hell.
> > --Billy
> >
> The Hitlers and Pol Pots of this world will be glad to hear you say
> that. But if you want to live with your eyes and ears firmly shut, ignoring
> mass graves and the screams of the tortured of this word, then you will
> waste your life, leaving no improvements whatever.
Who said anything about ignoring anything? The point of punishment is
to "fix" the criminal. If Hell is eternal, then it's not doing a very
good job of fixing anything.
> You and I, as well as Pol Pot will reap what we sow. That is justice.
No, it's vengeance. Justice is when wrongs are righted. How does Hell
undo Pol Pot's deeds? What does Hell accomplish that cannot be
accomplished by simply ending Pol Pot's eternal existence?
How can the creator of Hell say "Turn the other cheek" with a straight
face?
> Are you sowing good, evil or nothing at all?
No answer I give will satisfy you. If I say "good", you will simply
declare me unfit to judge myself. If I say "nothing", you will try to
make it seem worse than evil. "Good" and "evil" are value judgments,
and you are not my judge. If you want me to pay attention to your
judgments, then you are trying to be my God.
--Billy
Jon Jones
> The point of punishment is
> to "fix" the criminal.
"Rehabilitation" is where one tries to "fix" the criminal
and turn them from their ways. The purpose of punishment is
to punish.
...
> No, it's vengeance. Justice is when wrongs are righted.
Are you sure? If someone is punished for murder, can the
wrong they did ever be righted? Obviously not.
I think you may want to re-think some of your concepts.
Jon Jones
> > God is no more love than love is god. The terms don't match. An appeal to
> > authority doesn't justify it.
> >
> It's more like you using words for which you don't know the meaning, and
> have no reference for whatever. This fact alone disqualifies you to make any
> comment on theism at all. "God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
> definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same definition
> we apply to that word.
Apparently, "love" is also a proprietary theistic word,
with a definition that differs from normal usage.
"Love" as in "God loves you so much he/she/it will condemn
you to eternal torture for the uppity behavior of his
original flawed creation."
Pastor Frank
news:3d26d9bc...@news.buzz.net.nz...
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:02:46 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
> <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> said:
> >
> I wonder what "proof" of love would be acceptable to atheists. What do
> >you think? Because if you can't prove your love to them, they will call
you
> >a liar and other such epithets, as well as shower you with hateful
> >invective.
>
> Pot. Kettle. Only we don't claim to worship a god of love.
>
mind when he wrote: "God IS love" (1 John 4:8,16) He certainly did NOT mean
some invisible, divine space ogre represents love, nor that love IS some
invisible divine space ogre controlling your emotions.
>
> >Jesus in Jn:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
> >him in spirit and in truth.
>
> I have no idea what this means, and I suspect that nobody else does.
> One possible reading is that "in spirit" means turn their minds to
> worship, and "in truth" means do good works, eg loving their
> neighbour. In fact there are plenty of parables saying that loving
> your neighbour is the big thing and then loving G*d will take care of
> itself.
>
definition above doesn't appear. I would suggest you use the most common
definition first, i.e. a quality of attitude or intent, such as "he judged
according to both, the letter and the spirit of the law".
Also, loving God can mean loving the principles God represents, for God
is known by the principles vested in Him.
>
> In that case, most of us have no need to worry about the pseudo-Pascal
> question, "What if you're wrong?" We'll be able to stand before the
> Heavenly Throne with heads held high and say, "Well we didn't believe
> in you but we loved our neighbour," and if She sends us to Hell after
> that she's just a big meanie. But dollars to doughnuts it'll never
> happen.
> aa #158
>
representation, does indeed exist. Therefore "loving thy neighbour (Btw. in
case you are a Jew, that includes Palestinians) IS acting in accordance to
the meaning of the word "God". It is therefore a fallacy to say: I don't
believe in God, but I do love my neighbour.
--
Pastor Frank
Phil:4:13: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Jesse Nowells
On Sat, 6 Jul 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> Who is talking about a "god of love"? Try to understand what John had in
> mind when he wrote: "God IS love" (1 John 4:8,16) ...
You're a dog chasing after its own tail. All anybody can do is watch.
> Therefore "loving thy neighbour (Btw. in case you are a Jew, that
> includes Palestinians) ...
You mean Israeli or are you a closet Jew-hater? It's not the first time
you've made such remarks.
Pastor Frank
news:MPG.138414fc2...@news.tn.comcast.giganews.com...
> In alt.bible.prophecy, fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com says...
> > "Jesse Nowells" <jnow...@transbay.net> wrote in message
>
> > > God is no more love than love is god. The terms don't match. An appeal
to
> > > authority doesn't justify it.
> > >
> > It's more like you using words for which you don't know the meaning,
and
> > have no reference for whatever. This fact alone disqualifies you to make
any
> > comment on theism at all. "God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
> > definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same
definition
> > we apply to that word.
>
> Apparently, "love" is also a proprietary theistic word,
> with a definition that differs from normal usage.
That is true to some extent, for Biblical love is a caring action, not
just an emotion. Love may not be subject to man's will, but care is.
> "Love" as in "God loves you so much he/she/it will condemn
> you to eternal torture for the uppity behavior of his
> original flawed creation."
>
Only if you disavow your Father which is in Heaven, and prefer to be the
spawn of Satan, spitting into God's eyes, metaphorically speaking. There is
no excuse for that, no matter how "flawed". God doesn't "condemn" you, it
will be your buddy, Satan who does the "eternal torture".
--
Pastor Frank
Mt:11:29: Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in
heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Pastor Frank
news:6bd3c70a.02070...@posting.google.com...
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> >
>
> No answer I give will satisfy you. If I say "good", you will simply
> declare me unfit to judge myself. If I say "nothing", you will try to
> make it seem worse than evil. "Good" and "evil" are value judgments,
> and you are not my judge. If you want me to pay attention to your
> judgments, then you are trying to be my God.
>
to face your God all alone, and your self justifications will dry up in your
mouth. The main question will be: Why were you callously indifferent to the
sufferings of others, and did nothing where you could have done much?
Jesus is your advocate, for He loves you unconditionally. It's His blood
which covers your sins and in Him you will find refuge.
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mt:11:29: Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and
Brett A. Pasternack
> > "Love" as in "God loves you so much he/she/it will condemn
> > you to eternal torture for the uppity behavior of his
> > original flawed creation."
> >
> Only if you disavow your Father which is in Heaven,
That I do...
> and prefer to be the
> spawn of Satan,
That, on the other hand, I don't. Don't believe in him, either.
> spitting into God's eyes, metaphorically speaking. There is
> no excuse for that, no matter how "flawed".
Says who? When you love someone, you accept their mistakes. And on the
grand scale, this is a pretty small one. If you are right, God is the
most egotistical, petty, smallminded motherfucker one could ever
imagine.
> God doesn't "condemn" you, it
> will be your buddy, Satan who does the "eternal torture".
And who created him, and gave him that power?
Jesse Nowells
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> > Apparently, "love" is also a proprietary theistic word,
> > with a definition that differs from normal usage.
> That is true to some extent, for Biblical love is a caring action, not
> just an emotion. Love may not be subject to man's will, but care is.
Look, pal, people loved & cared long before that stupid ass bible was even
written.
> > "Love" as in "God loves you so much he/she/it will condemn
> > you to eternal torture for the uppity behavior of his
> > original flawed creation."
> Only if you disavow your Father which is in Heaven, and prefer to be the
> spawn of Satan, spitting into God's eyes, metaphorically speaking. There is
> no excuse for that, no matter how "flawed". God doesn't "condemn" you, it
> will be your buddy, Satan who does the "eternal torture".
You're missing the point, numbskull. If god has a problem with people's
behavior then he shouldn't have made people in the first place, which
incidently makes god have complicity with evil since he made people
capable of being evil. So there you go. If you want to say that god is
this goody two shoes you're not paying attention to what's really going
on with your concept but then ... what else is new?
Brett A. Pasternack
>
> "Billy Goat" <eric...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:6bd3c70a.02070...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > Are you sowing good, evil or nothing at all?
> >
> > No answer I give will satisfy you. If I say "good", you will simply
> > declare me unfit to judge myself. If I say "nothing", you will try to
> > make it seem worse than evil. "Good" and "evil" are value judgments,
> > and you are not my judge. If you want me to pay attention to your
> > judgments, then you are trying to be my God.
> >
> Aren't you glad I'm not "your judge" then? Without Jesus you will have
> to face your God all alone, and your self justifications will dry up in your
> mouth. The main question will be: Why were you callously indifferent to the
> sufferings of others, and did nothing where you could have done much?
What's God's excuse? He could have done infinitely more than I could
have.
Jesse Nowells
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
>>> Are you sowing good, evil or nothing at all?
>> No answer I give will satisfy you.
> Aren't you glad I'm not "your judge" then? Without Jesus you will have
> to face your God all alone, and your self justifications will dry up
> in your mouth.
& on what grounds is all that nonsense based on? The fact that nobody has
proven it's *not* true as oppose to proving that is true? All you can try
to do is shame people into submission which is a hollow & shallow way of
trying to prove a pointless thing.
> The main question will be: Why were you callously indifferent to the
> sufferings of others, and did nothing where you could have done much?
At the point of death, it makes no difference one iota. All those
questions are only relevant to & for the living. "God" is just a
personification of judgement. People judge each other & people judge
themselves.
> Jesus is your advocate, for He loves you unconditionally. It's His blood
> which covers your sins and in Him you will find refuge.
"Jesus" is just an idea of so-called "unconditional love". There's no such
thing between real people.
Bigdaddyking
fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com says...
Ok Frank, what have you done lately to help "The sufferings of others"?
Other than spew your bitter spoutings in this NG, I mean.
BDK
Douglas Berry
"Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> warmed at our fire and told
this tale:
>> "Love" as in "God loves you so much he/she/it will condemn
>> you to eternal torture for the uppity behavior of his
>> original flawed creation."
>>
> Only if you disavow your Father which is in Heaven, and prefer to be the
>spawn of Satan, spitting into God's eyes, metaphorically speaking. There is
>no excuse for that, no matter how "flawed". God doesn't "condemn" you, it
>will be your buddy, Satan who does the "eternal torture".
And who created everything, including Satan? *and* the Tree of
Knowledge of Good and Evil?
Frank, I *hated* my father. Didn't speak to him for years. He never
condemned me, he just accepted that we had our differences. When we
finally reconciled a few years before his death, we were still
distant, but we understood that there was love between us. But not
your God. It demands absolute groveling. Sick puppy, if you ask me.
--
Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Buck Naked
person with arrested development....
Hmm, think we are one big game of Dungeons and Dragons and god is playing
the dungeon master?
"Douglas Berry" <grid...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:kg6iiucesi4ii15cb...@4ax.com...
Douglas Berry
"Buck Naked" <an0n...@noway.com> warmed at our fire and told this
tale:
>god seems to be rather petty and vindictive, much along the lines of a
>person with arrested development....
Wan't it Heinlein who said (through the character Lazurus Long) that
mamkind is oncapable of conceiving of deity with morals any better
than that of a four-year old?
>Hmm, think we are one big game of Dungeons and Dragons and god is playing
>the dungeon master?
Nah, my game worlds make far more sense, and I'm a lot fairer that
this god person.
Billy Goat
> "Billy Goat" <eric...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:6bd3c70a.02070...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > Are you sowing good, evil or nothing at all?
> >
> > No answer I give will satisfy you. If I say "good", you will simply
> > declare me unfit to judge myself. If I say "nothing", you will try to
> > make it seem worse than evil. "Good" and "evil" are value judgments,
> > and you are not my judge. If you want me to pay attention to your
> > judgments, then you are trying to be my God.
> >
> Aren't you glad I'm not "your judge" then? Without Jesus you will have
> to face your God all alone, and your self justifications will dry up in your
> mouth. The main question will be: Why were you callously indifferent to the
> sufferings of others, and did nothing where you could have done much?
I have not been callously indifferent to the sufferings of others, and
I have not done nothing.
> Jesus is your advocate, for He loves you unconditionally. It's His blood
> which covers your sins and in Him you will find refuge.
Ah, so Jesus will help me deceive God?
--Billy
Billy Goat
understand the role of God as judge and the role of Jesus as my
advocate. Because surely helping people understand God and Jesus is a
good way to improve upon God's creation and bring about the Kingdom of
Heaven. That *is* your goal, yes?
"Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message news:<10260650...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> Aren't you glad I'm not "your judge" then? Without Jesus you will have
> to face your God all alone, and your self justifications will dry up in your
> mouth. The main question will be: Why were you callously indifferent to the
> sufferings of others, and did nothing where you could have done much?
*My* God? You keep saying that a person's god is whatever he values
most. If you truly mean that, then you must also admit that since I am
not Christian, my god is not your God. I think you meant to say,
"Without Jesus you will have to face MY God all alone." I'd have no
trouble facing what you would call *my* "god" all alone, because my
"god" is not a sentient being, and therefore not capable of judging
me.
> Jesus is your advocate, for He loves you unconditionally. It's His blood
> which covers your sins and in Him you will find refuge.
You keep insisting that God is love, not a person who watches us from
the clouds. It seems odd that I would need a defense against love.
Especially since Paul's first letter to the Corinthians tells us that
love does *not* judge, does *not* keep a record of wrongdoings, and
does *not* seek to have its own way. Doesn't sound like the type of
thing I need to defend against. Is God a judge with a son who is an
advocate, or is God the quality of love? Make up your mind.
And what do you mean by "advocate"? Jesus is going to be my lawyer,
defending me against God? How exactly will he do this? I thought the
rule was that all people are sinners, and all sinners must go to Hell
forever. What defense can Jesus possibly use? Will Jesus somehow trick
God into thinking I'm not a sinner? Can Jesus hide the truth from God?
Can he keep God from noticing the effects my sins have had on the
course of history? Or will he just ask God to unjustly allow some
sinners into Heaven, breaking His own rule? "Yes, Father, he's a
sinner, but forgive him anyway, because I know him." As if knowing
Jesus changes your past! Is Hell supposed to be for sinners, or for
people who don't have the right connections?
Besides, how can I trust Jesus if I've only heard about him through
stories? You once asked me what difference it would make whether or
not Jesus is a real person or a fictional character. Well, the
difference is that fictional characters can't defend me against
judges. I certainly wouldn't trust one to.
--Billy
"The Lord is a man of war." --Exodus 15:3
Internet addict
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 11:54:40 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
> <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote:
>
> >"Jesse Nowells" <jnow...@transbay.net> wrote in message
> >news:Pine.BSF.4.31.0207040329160.33584-100000@localhost...
> >> On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, Pastor Frank wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Our "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and you keep telling us that you don't
> >> > believe in our God.. Now you want it both ways and do believe in love.
> Make
> >> > up your mind, willya?
> >>
> >> God is no more love than love is god. The terms don't match. An appeal to
> >> authority doesn't justify it.
> >>
> > It's more like you using words for which you don't know the meaning, and
> >have no reference for whatever. This fact alone disqualifies you to make any
> >comment on theism at all. "God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
> >definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same definition
> >we apply to that word.
>
J. A.
"God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
> definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same definition
> we apply to that word.
Agreed. And "Love" is an exclusively natural and human trait to which
a gay pedophile like you and your church can never experience to
understand. As such you equate love with perversion, communism, insane
xian zionism, the beating up of defenseless children, the mass
extermination of all enemies of zion, the raping of citizens' minds,
the extortion of their hard earned pay, all in the name of your
bombastic egotism.
Pastor Frank
news:b123cd8.02071...@posting.google.com...
> "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
news:<10258845...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> >
> > "God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
> > definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same
definition
> > we apply to that word.
>
> Agreed. And "Love" is an exclusively natural and human trait to which
> a gay pedophile like you and your church can never experience to
> understand.
Our definition of the word "love" is rooted in Christ who not only
supplied the definition, but demonstrated the word's meaning by His life and
death.
Do tell us who does that for you? Or will you admit to making it all up
yourself as you go? LOL
> As such you equate love with perversion, communism, insane
> xian zionism, the beating up of defenseless children, the mass
> extermination of all enemies of zion, the raping of citizens' minds,
> the extortion of their hard earned pay, all in the name of your
> bombastic egotism.
>
You sound like a raving Anti-Semite. But then, is the God of the Jews
YHWH the same as the God of Christ whom He called "a Spirit"? What do you
think?
--
Pastor Frank
2Cor:3:6: Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of
the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth
life
J. A.
> "J. A." <thee_pr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b123cd8.02071...@posting.google.com...
> > "Pastor Frank" <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote in message
> news:<10258845...@arakis.wincom.net>...
> > >
> > > "God" is a proprietary theistic word, and any
> > > definition you as an atheist apply to it, can never be the same
> definition
> > > we apply to that word.
> >
> > Agreed. And "Love" is an exclusively natural and human trait to which
> > a gay pedophile like you and your church can never experience to
> > understand.
>
> Our definition of the word "love" is rooted in Christ who not only
> supplied the definition, but demonstrated the word's meaning by His life and
> death.
Wrong. You don't have any definitions. Only assumptions. There is a
difference. You can't mate and form a union with an imaginary being.
IF by chance you deluded yourself into thinking this was so then it
surely is not love. Love is not some one-sided bimbo affair with a
book. You don't get love from the Sun. Love is not singular. Love is
not a jew or one-jew-fits-all.
> Do tell us who does that for you? Or will you admit to making it all up
> yourself as you go? LOL
I don't need to create imaginary BS to love me in make-believe. I'm
not a psychotic leech like you and your disgusting church. Your god is
a womanizer, pedophile bigot. Proof that he's not love:
> > As such you equate love with perversion, communism, insane
> > xian zionism, the beating up of defenseless children, the mass
> > extermination of all enemies of zion, the raping of citizens' minds,
> > the extortion of their hard earned pay, all in the name of your
> > bombastic egotism.
> >
> You sound like a raving Anti-Semite. But then, is the God of the Jews
> YHWH the same as the God of Christ whom He called "a Spirit"? What do you
> think?
Here's the source of your stupidity. You think some jew created the
world. But actual history has proven that jews were never even so
remotely substantial an influence on any culture of the world. They
were a bunch of turd world vagabonds. You are the only one worshipping
the jews so it matters none to me. My gods are the ones who punish you
for such stupidity.
Remember christ was hung beside two theives. why do you think this is
so? Is he not the biggest crook in human history? My gods gave the
world religions like yours so we can keep separate the idiots from the
genius. And guess what my friend? It worked! It could not be made
easier to distinguish the idiots like you from the freethinking
geniuses of the world. Now stop crossposting your childish drivel.
Pastor Frank
everything you said above are "assumptions", based on belief and faith.
There isn't a single fact or evidence backing you up.
At least we got a book we can use as base reference, you don't even have
that. All you have are your totally off the wall personal and private
opinions.
Oh, btw, there are no "imaginary beings", nor is God that invisible
divine space ogre you keep blaspheming. Also Biblical love is care nowadays.
The Golden Rule states, that we are to care about each other as we care for
ourselves. And no, you don't have to "mate and form a union with any
imaginary being" ROFL
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.
31: And the second is alike, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Jeremy Martin
<fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote:
>At least we got a book we can use as base reference, you don't even have
>that. All you have are your totally off the wall personal and private
>opinions.
My base reference is the WORLD, Frank. I have empathy for all of
humanity, which can't be said of your own "base reference."
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
- H L Mencken
Pastor Frank
news:ep0iju88vfinmqflj...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:31:03 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
> <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote:
>
> >At least we got a book we can use as base reference, you don't even have
> >that. All you have are your totally off the wall personal and private
> >opinions.
>
> My base reference is the WORLD, Frank. I have empathy for all of
> humanity,
"I have empathy...." in whose judgment? Your own and those beholden to
you? LOL That illustrates the problem Christianity is designed to solve.
You need to be able to disqualify yourself from judging where you have a
conflict of interest. Judging yourself and forcing yourself to believe your
own judgment of yourself, makes your whole basis for self-esteem a joke.
--
Pastor Frank
Rom:2:28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that
circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom:2:29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of
men, but of God.
Fred Stone
> "Jeremy Martin" <myn...@yourchin.com> wrote in message
> news:ep0iju88vfinmqflj...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:31:03 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
>><fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>At least we got a book we can use as base reference, you don't even have
>>>that. All you have are your totally off the wall personal and private
>>>opinions.
>>
>>My base reference is the WORLD, Frank. I have empathy for all of
>>humanity,
>
>
> "I have empathy...." in whose judgment? Your own and those beholden to
> you? LOL That illustrates the problem Christianity is designed to solve.
> You need to be able to disqualify yourself from judging where you have a
> conflict of interest. Judging yourself and forcing yourself to believe your
> own judgment of yourself, makes your whole basis for self-esteem a joke.
Frank's own self-esteem being in negative territory, he can't conceive
of anybody who is *comfortable* with themself *as they are*.
--
Fred Stone
aa # 1369; linux user # 254178; machine # 138214
Adam Marczyk
> "Jeremy Martin" <myn...@yourchin.com> wrote in message
> news:ep0iju88vfinmqflj...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:31:03 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
> > <fa...@NOSPAMciaccess.com> wrote:
> >
> > >At least we got a book we can use as base reference, you don't even have
> > >that. All you have are your totally off the wall personal and private
> > >opinions.
> >
> > My base reference is the WORLD, Frank. I have empathy for all of
> > humanity,
>
> "I have empathy...." in whose judgment? Your own and those beholden to
> you? LOL That illustrates the problem Christianity is designed to solve.
> You need to be able to disqualify yourself from judging where you have a
> conflict of interest. Judging yourself and forcing yourself to believe your
> own judgment of yourself, makes your whole basis for self-esteem a joke.
Fortunately, to solve this problem we have Christianity, which teaches that
you're a dirty, worthless sinner who can never do any good or get anything
right, that you disgust even the all-loving deity who created you, and that
you're more than worthy of eternal damnation and infinite conscious torture just
by virtue of being born. What could be a better basis for self-esteem than that?
--
a.a. #2001
"Blasphemy is a victimless crime."
Director, EAC Black Monolith Division - "My God, it's full of stars"
Operative: EAC Electronic Warfare Division
EAC Subversive Fiction Division
http://www.ebonmusings.org ICQ: 8777843 PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737