Why forgetting is a normal function of memory – and when to worry!

[David B.]

"Forgetting in our day to day lives may feel annoying or, as we get older, a
little frightening. But it is an entirely normal part of memory – enabling us
to move on or make space for new information.

In fact, our memories aren’t as reliable as we may think. But what level of
forgetting is actually normal? Is it OK to mix up the names of countries, as
US president Joe Biden recently did? Let’s take a look at the evidence."

https://theconversation.com/why-forgetting-is-a-normal-function-of-memory-and-when-to-worry-223284

--
David

[Dave Wilkinson]

On Thursday 15 February 2024 at 07:09:42 UTC, David B. wrote:
> "Forgetting in our day to day lives may feel annoying or, as we get older, a
> little frightening. But it is an entirely normal part of memory – enabling us
> to move on or make space for new information.
>
> In fact, our memories aren’t as reliable as we may think. But what level of
> forgetting is actually normal? Is it OK to mix up the names of countries, as
> US president Joe Biden recently did? Let’s take a look at the evidence."

I think it's worse when you forget who is actually the president at the time.
Trump has said Obama shoulod resign.
Trump has also mixed up the names of countries and who is leader of those countries.
But then again as with most memories it's the importance of them that is the key to how long they are rememered.
Sometimes it's best to forget things too.

>
> https://theconversation.com/why-forgetting-is-a-normal-function-of-memory-and-when-to-worry-223284
>
> --
> David

[Mike Easter]

BDB wrote:
> Is it OK to mix up the names of countries, as
> US president Joe Biden recently did?

I didn't think that particular 'misspeak' of Biden was a big deal, but
sometimes he is in bad shape, separate from the types of 'little' gaffes
he has made for decades that weren't considered to be due to senility
creeping in then.

The man isn't really in good enough 'condition' to be pres, in his case
his brain is too old; while someone else who might be even older in
years doesn't have a brain that old.

Sometimes people forget ordinary daily things because they do them
'absent-mindedly'; someone who is prone to forget things more than they
want should -1- 'pay attention' instead of being absent-minded -2- use
little mental tricks to help them not forget.

For example, it is observed to be 'human nature' that we tend to forget
'a something' when we pass through a door. One should 'prepare' for that.

When my mother's brain began to fail, she wanted to 'write things down'.
It would have been impossible to write down everything she was having
trouble remembering. She lived to be 96; her brain didn't perform
decently long long before that.

And, sometimes, if one was able to 'stimulate' her for a few hours, she
could remember a lot of things. Naturally most of the time it wasn't
possible to stimulate her at all.


--
Mike Easter

[David B.]

Were you a 'dutiful' son, Mike ...... like FromTheRafters?

[Apd]

"David B." wrote:
> Is it OK to mix up the names of countries, as US president Joe Biden
> recently did?

George Bush (the son) also did it and he's not as old.

There's some female historians/academics I quite like but one their
names constantly eludes me. It's not as if I've forgotton, because
I saw a first name similar or the same yesterday and I instantly
recalled it. Today, I've forgotten again! It's link rot; the memory
is there but inaccessible, yet can be brought back with the right
"jog".

[Mike Easter]

Apd wrote:
> There's some female historians/academics I quite like but one their
> names constantly eludes me. It's not as if I've forgotton, because
> I saw a first name similar or the same yesterday and I instantly
> recalled it. Today, I've forgotten again! It's link rot; the memory
> is there but inaccessible, yet can be brought back with the right
> "jog".

I think it is good to try to remember things which are murky. My common
'problem' that I exercise on is remembering the names of actors
(actresses) from movies.

It is often 'strange' how the recall works; sometimes it comes from 'out
of no where', sometimes it has to come up 'piecemeal' like remembering
some other movie they were in or one name of the names, like first.

Forgetting and remembering things is a very individual process, no
matter how young or old one is. I have a friend who is always searching
his memory for an exact number, like a particular year 10-15 y ago, when
that particular exact item of info has absolutely no bearing on the
'story' he is trying to tell. Crazy.

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> My common 'problem' that I exercise on is remembering the names of
> actors (actresses) from movies.

Thinking on this...

... 'historically', as far back as I remember, I have been 'poor at'
remembering people's names; say you are at a party of a few people and
you are introduced to this and that other person.

Primarily, unlike some 'business' people or people who are prone to
network and all that, the business of it being 'important' to remember
names under those conditions is so important that there are 'tutorials'
to teach them how to improve on that kind of name recall.

I have absolutely no interest in making that process 'important to me'
so I have never 'focused' on it; consequently I forget the names of
people I've met 'briefly' some time ago. I recently had contact at
friends' house w/ a woman I hadn't had such contact in say a couple of
years or so. After she left, I had to have the 'hostess' remind me of
her first name. Whether I remembered her son's name, (which it seems I
did) or if her son's name maybe was mentioned, it seems that I did
recall that. I had had much much less interaction w/ him. And I never
knew their last names.

That is, my 'position' or skill w/ remembering people's names is very
poor; always has been, since my youth. Maybe that is why I practice
remembering act-or/-resses names when I'm watching (usually old) movies.

--
Mike Easter

[David B.]

Have you ever considered THIS subject matter?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorway_effect

[Apd]

"David B." wrote:
> Have you ever considered THIS subject matter?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorway_effect

Yes, or the threshold effect. Self-preservation, as mentioned at the
bottom of the article, where predators may be lurking at the edge of
openings is a reasonable explanation and one I've heard before. This
must be some inherited behaviour from early man where the mindset or
focus has to change from one environment to another, although I'm not
sure why that would apply in the home going into the kitchen, say.

[Dave Wilkinson]

Yep, but I'd forgotten about it ;-)

We see lots of things but not everything is commited to long term memory.
Sometimes is down to how important something is.
And some things are best forgotten.

[T i m]

On 15/02/2024 07:09, David B. wrote:
> "Forgetting in our day to day lives may feel annoying or, as we get older, a
> little frightening. But it is an entirely normal part of memory – enabling us
> to move on or make space for new information.
>

I saw this explained by Homer on The Simpsons.

He cited the time he learned how to brew beer at home and then (because
that new knowledge pushed out the old) he forgot how to drive. ;-)

Similarly, since you were indoctrinated into your religious cult and
they gave you the magic rules book to learn, you forgot how to think for
yourself.

Shame that rules book was written ~2000 years ago and only then ~500
years after it all supposed to have happened.

'Chinese whispers' anyone?

How many loaves and fishes did you say he had to feed 50 people?

I thought he said 'five loaves and two fishes' and wasn't it 500 people?

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Wilkinson]

On Friday 16 February 2024 at 15:53:13 UTC, T i m wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 07:09, David B. wrote:
> > "Forgetting in our day to day lives may feel annoying or, as we get older, a
> > little frightening. But it is an entirely normal part of memory – enabling us
> > to move on or make space for new information.
> >
> I saw this explained by Homer on The Simpsons.
>
> He cited the time he learned how to brew beer at home and then (because
> that new knowledge pushed out the old) he forgot how to drive. ;-)
>
> Similarly, since you were indoctrinated into your religious cult and
> they gave you the magic rules book to learn, you forgot how to think for
> yourself.
>
> Shame that rules book was written ~2000 years ago and only then ~500
> years after it all supposed to have happened.
>
> 'Chinese whispers' anyone?

east end gossip.

>
> How many loaves and fishes did you say he had to feed 50 people?
>
> I thought he said 'five loaves and two fishes' and wasn't it 500 people?

Nah 5000 jewish men (women and sprogs weren't counted as people back then) actually I don't think anyone
actually counted them.
But dynamo managed to do quite well producing bucket loads of fishes from no where.
But he did forget the loaves and ketchup.
https://youtu.be/bEeqbaF7Sys


>
> Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On 15/02/2024 19:56, David B. wrote:
<snip>

>
> Were you a 'dutiful' son, Mike ...... like FromTheRafters?

For me that could include accompanying my Mum to Switzerland.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On 15/02/2024 21:15, Mike Easter wrote:

<snip>

> That is, my 'position' or skill w/ remembering people's names is very
> poor; always has been, since my youth.

Same here.

> Maybe that is why I practice
> remembering act-or/-resses names when I'm watching (usually old) movies.

I'm not really interested in them ('Luvvies') so that would be a waste
of time but I seemed able to remember a fair spattering of Care
Assistants or Registered Nurses names though my and my Mums recent dealings.

What helps there is them having a reasonably sized and clear name badge
on display at some point in our contact, one big enough so that you can
read at a glance and if they are female, that it doesn't look you are
staring at their chest. ;-)

The badges worn by staff at Mums care home are more typical of some sort
of business gathering, compared with the NHS stoke hospital where they
were generally 'Firstname' in big and their role (Care Assistant',
'Physiotherapist', 'Administration') smaller underneath.

When IT training I would typically see a new batch of 8 delegates every
week and without the name cards on their desks, there was little chance
of me remembering all their names, especially the less familiar ones.

Cheers, T i m

[Mike Easter]

BDB wrote:
> Were you a 'dutiful' son, Mike

I wouldn't say that. I was well-behaved and tolerant of adversity in
childhood; I left home for more school after hs graduation and I wasn't
particularly 'good about' returning home for such as Xmas or T'giving
over the next decade and didn't have 'summer vacations' either. Then I
left the state and was even worse about that visiting business.

By the time she was old and feeble and unable to care for herself I made
the trip halfway across the country to spend time w/ her for a few days
a few times a year and during those times is when I could get her brain
to work sometimes if I spent a few hours w/ her while we drove around
'sightseeing' while I drank some beer and talked to her. I don't think
anyone else in the much more nearby family had that much time to spend
w/ her 'like that'. Or perhaps 'wanted to' or attempted to spend that
much time trying to communicate.

That is pretty sparse 'duty' on my part.


--
Mike Easter

[David B.]

Thank you for your honesty, Mike.
I find it interesting that you made no mention of your father.
Didn't he feature in your life?

[David B.]

On 16 Feb 2024 at 18:30:58 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> Mums care home

How far away from your house is that care home?

[Mike Easter]

BDB wrote:
> I find it interesting that you made no mention of your father.
> Didn't he feature in your life?

My parents divorced when I was an infant; I spent my schoolboy summers
w/ my father but then visited him even less than I did my mother (and
that family) after hs. During my schoolday age my mother was married to
my step-father and they had two sons together who were much younger than
I, so they weren't as much like brothers to me as babies whose diapers I
sometimes changed and also folded after diaper wash/dry -- back in the
day when diapers were cloth.


--
Mike Easter

[T i m]

Why do you want to know?

Cheers, T i m

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> That is pretty sparse 'duty' on my part.

Hey, that diaper biz is an example of some sparse duty :-)

My step-father put me to significantly more 'duty', not exactly sparse,
but that only lasted until hs was over :-)

I was a good (and dutiful) 'worker' for 'all' of my parents while I was
around them.

--
Mike Easter

[David B.]

Again, thanks for so advising. Have you stayed in touch with your
step-brothers?

I too remember the nappy bucket from when my own children were nippers!

[David B.]

Just wondered if it was close to the hospital you mentioned.
That's a long way from where you've said you live - in London.
If that is the case, you must be torn between the need to be at home to look
after your wife and daughter and a nagging requirement to pay regular visits
to your mum. I don't envy you, especially as your mum could be kept alive (and
paying fees!!) for quite some time to come.

[Kelly Phillips]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 18:30:58 +0000, T i m <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

>On 15/02/2024 21:15, Mike Easter wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> That is, my 'position' or skill w/ remembering people's names is very
>> poor; always has been, since my youth.
>
>Same here.
>
>> Maybe that is why I practice
>> remembering act-or/-resses names when I'm watching (usually old) movies.
>
>I'm not really interested in them ('Luvvies') so that would be a waste
>of time but I seemed able to remember a fair spattering of Care
>Assistants or Registered Nurses names though my and my Mums recent dealings.

<snip>

I used to do a little bar trick back in the late 70's and early 80's. I used to
go out with a group of friends on weekends to play pool and foosball, and it
quickly became apparent that I had a knack for remembering a girl's name, a few
things about her, and her phone number. Throughout the evening, various friends
would walk up, woman in tow, and without saying a word to me, they would tell
the girl to give me her name and number. I'd nod and go back to my game.

The next day, random friends would look for me to ask for the phone number of
the girl they were talking to the night before. I never had a problem providing
the info. A couple of days later, that part of my memory would get wiped and on
the next weekend we'd do it all again.

I doubt that I could do that anymore, but most people carry phones now so it
isn't really necessary.

[FromTheRafters]

It happens that T i m formulated :

He's probably drawing a map. :)

[FromTheRafters]

Dave Wilkinson laid this down on his screen :

> On Friday 16 February 2024 at 15:53:13 UTC, T i m wrote:
>> On 15/02/2024 07:09, David B. wrote:
>>> "Forgetting in our day to day lives may feel annoying or, as we get older,
>>> a little frightening. But it is an entirely normal part of memory –
>>> enabling us to move on or make space for new information.
>>>
>> I saw this explained by Homer on The Simpsons.
>>
>> He cited the time he learned how to brew beer at home and then (because
>> that new knowledge pushed out the old) he forgot how to drive. ;-)
>>
>> Similarly, since you were indoctrinated into your religious cult and
>> they gave you the magic rules book to learn, you forgot how to think for
>> yourself.
>>
>> Shame that rules book was written ~2000 years ago and only then ~500
>> years after it all supposed to have happened.
>>
>> 'Chinese whispers' anyone?
>
> east end gossip.
>
>>
>> How many loaves and fishes did you say he had to feed 50 people?
>>
>> I thought he said 'five loaves and two fishes' and wasn't it 500 people?
>
> Nah 5000 jewish men (women and sprogs weren't counted as people back then)
> actually I don't think anyone actually counted them.

Yeah, they move too fast.

[Mike Easter]

BDB wrote:
> Have you stayed in touch with your
> step-brothers?

One is dead, crazy story; the other has something wrong w/ his brain or
behaviors or personality, very complicated; but we talk on the phone,
sometimes for long calls.

ISTM he's a combination of bipolar disorder and some personality traits
that are almost a disorder themselves. The bipolar is not a good dx, in
some ways it falls more into the psychotic family than the neuroses, and
some atypical anti-psychotic drugs are more useful than some other drugs.

In years past he has been significantly disabled by his depressed mood,
which he 'managed' home alone until he had lost half his body weight and
mobility. He's all better from that now, but now he weighs more than
2.5x as much as the least and isn't doing that well at taking care of
himself IMO, but much better than his worst.

He thinks he is pretty much OK.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Kelly Phillips wrote:
> I doubt that I could do that anymore, but most people carry phones now so it
> isn't really necessary.

There are memory 'tricks' or techniques such as creating mental images
to remember very long lists of words or things in order that I used to
play w/, which was interesting, but not much practical use. The
interesting part was that it worked. For me, it wasn't a 'natural'
talent, like some people have for learning and memorizing things.

I used to study w/ one of those brainy type guys who could just remember
all kinds of difficult things just by reading about them, so it was very
fast for him. For me, I need to *understand* the thing or 'content' to
remember it usefully, I can't just make a mental snapshot.

There was another guy I knew in college, but never studied w/ him
because he was neither a classmate nor a roommate, but he had all kinds
of 'stuff' in his brain that he just 'threw around' like it amused him,
not in a gloating way. Mostly about the geography of the US including
all the towns and highways (and lesser roads) and a gigantic vocabulary.
He was fun. Maybe he had a lot more in there that I don't know about;
the geography or 'map' and vocab were more likely to pop out. For all I
know he may have had just as much map of the rest of the world as the .us.

--
Mike Easter

[T i m]

You can see it now ... walls in every room covered with photos and pins
and strings ... ;-)

But hey, it's good to have a hobby! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On 16/02/2024 22:47, Kelly Phillips wrote:

<snip>

> I used to do a little bar trick back in the late 70's and early 80's. I used to
> go out with a group of friends on weekends to play pool and foosball, and it
> quickly became apparent that I had a knack for remembering a girl's name, a few
> things about her, and her phone number.

I'm sure that would also impress the girls. ;-)

> Throughout the evening, various friends
> would walk up, woman in tow, and without saying a word to me, they would tell
> the girl to give me her name and number. I'd nod and go back to my game.

Ok ...

>
> The next day, random friends would look for me to ask for the phone number of
> the girl they were talking to the night before. I never had a problem providing
> the info.

Oh, they were 'working girls' ... (or you may have been falling foul of
some Data Protection act). ;-)

> A couple of days later, that part of my memory would get wiped and on
> the next weekend we'd do it all again.

Like an 'Etch_A_Sketch'. ;-)

>
> I doubt that I could do that anymore, but most people carry phones now so it
> isn't really necessary.

And that's the thing isn't it. I have had the same mobile number for
maybe 20 years and couldn't recite it unprompted till a few years ago.
The reasons I now can are:

1) The Mrs got dementia and so couldn't always step in for me.

2) I was then using my mobile more than my landline and people would
generally ask for that *over* the landline (that reminds me, I'm still
paying for a landline but haven't used it (partly because I think it's
broken) for maybe 2 years).

3) I rarely rang myself (maybe when I misplaced my phone) and later was
likely ringing it from the number stored in it's phonebook.

My first real girlfriend had a very good memory. She had 12 'O levels'
and took a couple of 'A Levels' a year early because she retained facts
like a sponge.
>
We were out in my Messerschmitt KR200 (tandem 'bubble car') and can
across another owner in his. WE stopped, had a chat and agreed to keep
in touch but neither of us had a pen and paper and there were no mobiles
those days. 'That's ok ' she said, 'what is your number' and he rattled
his landline number off. I wasn't particularly convinced but trusted her
so off we went.

Halfway though the next Sunday (our meetup day) I remembered I wanted
that number and prompted her if she still had it (expecting her not to).
She just rattled it off (WTF)?

If I need the reg of a new_to_me vehicle for an insurance quote and pop
outside to make a mental note of it, unless I recite it on my way back
in, I will have forgotten it by the time I've got back to my PC. ;-(

Yet, if I need a tool or some kit that I haven't used for 5 years, I can
generally go straight to it (or close).

I think some people can remember say numbers or letters (and so
spellings etc) and others remember things pictorially. I drive somewhere
once, GPS guided and can generally drive there thereafter without.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On 16/02/2024 22:22, David B. wrote:
> On 16 Feb 2024 at 22:08:28 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 16/02/2024 21:45, David B. wrote:
>>> On 16 Feb 2024 at 18:30:58 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mums care home
>>>
>>> How far away from your house is that care home?
>>
>> Why do you want to know?
>
> Just wondered if it was close to the hospital you mentioned.

5 miles?

> That's a long way from where you've said you live - in London.

25 miles.

> If that is the case, you must be torn between the need to be at home to look
> after your wife

My wife is still fairly mobile (all be it slowly and not that far (1/2
mile, under her own steam) and so we go together.

> and daughter

Lives in her own place 10 miles from me and is mostly self sufficient
(from me).

> and a nagging requirement to pay regular visits
> to your mum.

Been pretty well daily up to recently when my overload and the need to
attend a string of medical appointments forced me to take some time out.

> I don't envy you, especially as your mum could be kept alive (and
> paying fees!!) for quite some time to come.

Thanks ... but my sister is working to get her discharged to her home
(once it's been suitably adapted and where where she was living before
the stroke) so that need won't be so pressing.

So, does hat help add a few more datum points to your map? Have you run
out of pins and string yet? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 08:46:13 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 16/02/2024 22:22, David B. wrote:
>> On 16 Feb 2024 at 22:08:28 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/02/2024 21:45, David B. wrote:
>>>> On 16 Feb 2024 at 18:30:58 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mums care home
>>>>
>>>> How far away from your house is that care home?
>>>
>>> Why do you want to know?
>>
>> Just wondered if it was close to the hospital you mentioned.
>
> 5 miles?
>
>> That's a long way from where you've said you live - in London.
>
> 25 miles.

The hospital I thought you had mentioned is near Newcastle-under-Lyme!

>> If that is the case, you must be torn between the need to be at home to look
>> after your wife
>
> My wife is still fairly mobile (all be it slowly and not that far (1/2
> mile, under her own steam) and so we go together.

That's good!

>> and daughter
>
> Lives in her own place 10 miles from me and is mostly self sufficient
> (from me).

Thanks. I was confusing you with another chap resurrected quite recently from
my boyhood days. He now lives in Scarborough and has a disabled daughter who
lives with him.

>> and a nagging requirement to pay regular visits
>> to your mum.
>
> Been pretty well daily up to recently when my overload and the need to
> attend a string of medical appointments forced me to take some time out.

"Overload"?

>> I don't envy you, especially as your mum could be kept alive (and
>> paying fees!!) for quite some time to come.
>
> Thanks ... but my sister is working to get her discharged to her home
> (once it's been suitably adapted and where where she was living before
> the stroke) so that need won't be so pressing.

That's good to hear. I believe it best for families to look after and care for
one another if that is possible.

> So, does hat help add a few more datum points to your map? Have you run
> out of pins and string yet? ;-)

Haha! I actually keep it all in my head. I rarely make mistakes in recall
about people - at least that is how things have been!

> Cheers, T i m

Enjoy your day!

--
David

[T i m]

On 17/02/2024 10:08, David B. wrote:
<snip>

>>> and a nagging requirement to pay regular visits
>>> to your mum.
>>
>> Been pretty well daily up to recently when my overload and the need to
>> attend a string of medical appointments forced me to take some time out.
>
> "Overload"?

Yup, I'm not a natural carer, I'm a fixer, I (try to) provide practical
more than personal solutions for people in need.

So, when it was known that the NHS physiotherapy would stop when she
moved from stoke rehab to nursing home under assessment and the physio I
had done with her showed me her right leg was pretty normal (for a 90
year old who had had a stroke and had muscle wastage, even in her 'good
leg') and her left leg only able to push to a limited extent [1]) I
researched an 'under desk' elliptical trainer, sourced one and delivered
it to her room.

But she didn't get out of bed that day and with all the other things
going on and I had to take some time out and sit away from it all for
half an hour and then took myself out for a few days break.
>
<snip>

> That's good to hear. I believe it best for families to look after and care for
> one another if that is possible.

WE are sceptical that sister will be able to cope, even with visiting
carers but time will tell.

When asked, Mum requested she went into a nursing home.

>
>> So, does hat help add a few more datum points to your map? Have you run
>> out of pins and string yet? ;-)
>
> Haha! I actually keep it all in my head. I rarely make mistakes in recall
> about people - at least that is how things have been!

Till you started to lose your memory (mind?) ...
>
>
> Enjoy your day!
>
Not much chance of that, just visiting (what's left of) my Mum again
when I should be doing loads of other stuff.

Cheers, T i m

[1] If there was ever an example needed to demonstrate the existence of
brain lateralisation (to the thickos) it is to observe stroke victims.

[FromTheRafters]

David B. expressed precisely :

So then, what was/is Dustin's malady and what did he say his female
friend's name was? I remembered them, how about you?

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 11:57:26 GMT, "FromTheRafters" <F...@nomail.afraid.org>
wrote:

IIRC, it is Restrictive Lung Disease
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319012

Are you referring to 'Jax' ........ or maybe Anne Onime?

[FromTheRafters]

on 2/17/2024, David B. supposed :

No, he mentioned a girl he liked back in the day. You recently asked
about her name. You also mentioned his malady and he replied "not even
close" to that guess.

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 13:34:45 GMT, "FromTheRafters" <F...@nomail.afraid.org>
wrote:

>>> So then, what was/is Dustin's malady and what did he say his female
>>> friend's name was? I remembered them, how about you?
>>
>> IIRC, it is Restrictive Lung Disease
>> https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319012
>>
>> Are you referring to 'Jax' ........ or maybe Anne Onime?
>
> No, he mentioned a girl he liked back in the day. You recently asked
> about her name. You also mentioned his malady and he replied "not even
> close" to that guess.

Then I'll have to admit that you/he got me! :-(

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 11:16:18 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 17/02/2024 10:08, David B. wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>> and a nagging requirement to pay regular visits
>>>> to your mum.
>>>
>>> Been pretty well daily up to recently when my overload and the need to
>>> attend a string of medical appointments forced me to take some time out.
>>
>> "Overload"?
>
> Yup, I'm not a natural carer, I'm a fixer, I (try to) provide practical
> more than personal solutions for people in need.
>
> So, when it was known that the NHS physiotherapy would stop when she
> moved from stoke rehab to nursing home under assessment and the physio I
> had done with her showed me her right leg was pretty normal (for a 90
> year old who had had a stroke and had muscle wastage, even in her 'good
> leg') and her left leg only able to push to a limited extent [1]) I
> researched an 'under desk' elliptical trainer, sourced one and delivered
> it to her room.
>
> But she didn't get out of bed that day and with all the other things
> going on and I had to take some time out and sit away from it all for
> half an hour and then took myself out for a few days break.

Got it - thank you. Would you, please, help with my confusion?

What is "NHS - Stoke rehab"?

>>
> <snip>
>
>> That's good to hear. I believe it best for families to look after and care for
>> one another if that is possible.
>
> WE are sceptical that sister will be able to cope, even with visiting
> carers but time will tell.

Maybe she will be able to manage with your help.

> When asked, Mum requested she went into a nursing home.

It can be VERY expensive.

>>> So, does hat help add a few more datum points to your map? Have you run
>>> out of pins and string yet? ;-)
>>
>> Haha! I actually keep it all in my head. I rarely make mistakes in recall
>> about people - at least that is how things have been!
>
> Till you started to lose your memory (mind?) ...

Maybe so! :-)

>> Enjoy your day!
>>
> Not much chance of that, just visiting (what's left of) my Mum again
> when I should be doing loads of other stuff.

You need the points, Tim! ;-) (Everything is recorded in heaven!)

> Cheers, T i m
>
> [1] If there was ever an example needed to demonstrate the existence of
> brain lateralisation (to the thickos) it is to observe stroke victims.

I've never wanted to be that close. So sad. :-(

[Mike Easter]

BDB wrote:

> "Mike Easter" wrote:
>>
>> they weren't as much like brothers to me as babies whose diapers I
>> sometimes changed and also folded after diaper wash/dry -- back in the
>> day when diapers were cloth.
>

> I too remember the nappy bucket from when my own children were nippers!
>

Back in that day, the washed diapers dried on the clothesline outside.
In spite of hot and humid TX gulf coast summers, the house and the car
(and el-hi school) didn't have air conditioning. Over the years, window
a/c units were intro'd to different rooms in different parts of the
house, ultimately there were 3, the dining room next to the kitchen, the
living room w/ the TV, and the parents' bedroom, which was ultimately
connected by 'aligned' door ways to the 'little boys' bedroom and then
my bedroom. And the only bathtub had legs (remember those?) and there
was no shower. I had 3 different cars in the 50s and 60s and none of
them were a/c/ed.

There was an attic (whole house) fan then before the a/cs were useful; I
still have a whole house fan today which I use *more* often than a/c,
but usually the breeze eliminates any need for that fan, so I don't use
a/c nor house fan nowadays. And this isn't TX :-)

My first 2 years of college also involved regular sessions dormitories
w/o a/c and most classrooms and labs. My summertimes dorm was a/c/ed.
Next 2 y I believe everything was a/c except my car.

--
Mike Easter

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 19:07:36 GMT, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

> BDB wrote:
>> "Mike Easter" wrote:
>>>
>>> they weren't as much like brothers to me as babies whose diapers I
>>> sometimes changed and also folded after diaper wash/dry -- back in the
>>> day when diapers were cloth.
>>
>> I too remember the nappy bucket from when my own children were nippers!
>>
> Back in that day, the washed diapers dried on the clothesline outside.
> In spite of hot and humid TX gulf coast summers, the house and the car
> (and el-hi school) didn't have air conditioning. Over the years, window
> a/c units were intro'd to different rooms in different parts of the
> house, ultimately there were 3, the dining room next to the kitchen, the
> living room w/ the TV, and the parents' bedroom, which was ultimately
> connected by 'aligned' door ways to the 'little boys' bedroom and then
> my bedroom. And the only bathtub had legs (remember those?) and there
> was no shower. I had 3 different cars in the 50s and 60s and none of
> them were a/c/ed.

I wasn't old enough to have a car in the 1950s!

I've never lived in a property in the UK which has had air-conditioning.

> There was an attic (whole house) fan then before the a/cs were useful; I
> still have a whole house fan today which I use *more* often than a/c,
> but usually the breeze eliminates any need for that fan, so I don't use
> a/c nor house fan nowadays. And this isn't TX :-)

I've never heard of a "whole house" fan but understand what it must do.
(Create a flow of air throughout the property).

> My first 2 years of college also involved regular sessions dormitories
> w/o a/c and most classrooms and labs. My summertimes dorm was a/c/ed.
> Next 2 y I believe everything was a/c except my car.

Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!

[Snit]

On Feb 17, 2024 at 1:29:11 PM MST, "David B." wrote
<l3cj8n...@mid.individual.net>:

> On 17 Feb 2024 at 19:07:36 GMT, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
>
>> BDB wrote:
>>> "Mike Easter" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> they weren't as much like brothers to me as babies whose diapers I
>>>> sometimes changed and also folded after diaper wash/dry -- back in the
>>>> day when diapers were cloth.
>>>
>>> I too remember the nappy bucket from when my own children were nippers!
>>>
>> Back in that day, the washed diapers dried on the clothesline outside.
>> In spite of hot and humid TX gulf coast summers, the house and the car
>> (and el-hi school) didn't have air conditioning. Over the years, window
>> a/c units were intro'd to different rooms in different parts of the
>> house, ultimately there were 3, the dining room next to the kitchen, the
>> living room w/ the TV, and the parents' bedroom, which was ultimately
>> connected by 'aligned' door ways to the 'little boys' bedroom and then
>> my bedroom. And the only bathtub had legs (remember those?) and there
>> was no shower. I had 3 different cars in the 50s and 60s and none of
>> them were a/c/ed.
>
> I wasn't old enough to have a car in the 1950s!

I wasn't alive in the 1950s. Barely around during any time in the '60s.

>
> I've never lived in a property in the UK which has had air-conditioning.

I have always had AC or at least a swamp cooler (evaporative cooling).

>
>> There was an attic (whole house) fan then before the a/cs were useful; I
>> still have a whole house fan today which I use *more* often than a/c,
>> but usually the breeze eliminates any need for that fan, so I don't use
>> a/c nor house fan nowadays. And this isn't TX :-)
>
> I've never heard of a "whole house" fan but understand what it must do.
> (Create a flow of air throughout the property).

My heating / cooling system also has the ability to just have a fan going. I
also have a huge window swamp cooler unit with a super strong fan. Something
similar to this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/MasterCool-1600-sq-ft-Window-Evaporative-Cooler-3200-CFM/4664615

Not the exact one I have, but close enough.

>
>> My first 2 years of college also involved regular sessions dormitories
>> w/o a/c and most classrooms and labs. My summertimes dorm was a/c/ed.
>> Next 2 y I believe everything was a/c except my car.
>
> Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!

In some places it is the norm... try living in Vegas or Phoenix.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[T i m]

On 17/02/2024 14:34, David B. wrote:

<snip>

> Got it - thank you. Would you, please, help with my confusion?
>
> What is "NHS - Stoke rehab"?

You live in England and are a native English speaker yes?

You know who the N.H.S are right?

You know what a stroke is right?

You know the range of consequences of suffering a stroke might be and so
what 'rehab' might be in that context?

Have you been drinking ... ?

>
>>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> That's good to hear. I believe it best for families to look after and care for
>>> one another if that is possible.
>>
>> WE are sceptical that sister will be able to cope, even with visiting
>> carers but time will tell.
>
> Maybe she will be able to manage with your help.

Maybe and hopefully in time ... however, I've got enough on my own plate
right now ...

>
>> When asked, Mum requested she went into a nursing home.
>
> It can be VERY expensive.

It can indeed, however, she can't take it with her ...

>
>>>> So, does hat help add a few more datum points to your map? Have you run
>>>> out of pins and string yet? ;-)
>>>
>>> Haha! I actually keep it all in my head. I rarely make mistakes in recall
>>> about people - at least that is how things have been!
>>
>> Till you started to lose your memory (mind?) ...
>
> Maybe so! :-)

More than 'maybe' methinks OM.

>
>>> Enjoy your day!
>>>
>> Not much chance of that, just visiting (what's left of) my Mum again
>> when I should be doing loads of other stuff.
>
> You need the points, Tim! ;-)

If I haven't earned them yet then it's bit too late now.

> (Everything is recorded in heaven!)

How do you know that? Have you been there?

>>
>> [1] If there was ever an example needed to demonstrate the existence of
>> brain lateralisation (to the thickos) it is to observe stroke victims.
>
> I've never wanted to be that close.

I've never *wanted* to either?

> So sad. :-(

It is, for sure.

Cheers, T i m

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 20:33:38 GMT, "Snit" <brock.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 2024 at 1:29:11 PM MST, "David B." wrote
> <l3cj8n...@mid.individual.net>:
>
>> On 17 Feb 2024 at 19:07:36 GMT, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> BDB wrote:
>>>> "Mike Easter" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> they weren't as much like brothers to me as babies whose diapers I
>>>>> sometimes changed and also folded after diaper wash/dry -- back in the
>>>>> day when diapers were cloth.
>>>>
>>>> I too remember the nappy bucket from when my own children were nippers!
>>>>
>>> Back in that day, the washed diapers dried on the clothesline outside.
>>> In spite of hot and humid TX gulf coast summers, the house and the car
>>> (and el-hi school) didn't have air conditioning. Over the years, window
>>> a/c units were intro'd to different rooms in different parts of the
>>> house, ultimately there were 3, the dining room next to the kitchen, the
>>> living room w/ the TV, and the parents' bedroom, which was ultimately
>>> connected by 'aligned' door ways to the 'little boys' bedroom and then
>>> my bedroom. And the only bathtub had legs (remember those?) and there
>>> was no shower. I had 3 different cars in the 50s and 60s and none of
>>> them were a/c/ed.
>>
>> I wasn't old enough to have a car in the 1950s!
>
> I wasn't alive in the 1950s. Barely around during any time in the '60s.

Haha! Now you know just how old Mike is!

>> I've never lived in a property in the UK which has had air-conditioning.
>
> I have always had AC or at least a swamp cooler (evaporative cooling).

Folk like you are killing our planet! ;-

>>> There was an attic (whole house) fan then before the a/cs were useful; I
>>> still have a whole house fan today which I use *more* often than a/c,
>>> but usually the breeze eliminates any need for that fan, so I don't use
>>> a/c nor house fan nowadays. And this isn't TX :-)
>>
>> I've never heard of a "whole house" fan but understand what it must do.
>> (Create a flow of air throughout the property).
>
> My heating / cooling system also has the ability to just have a fan going. I
> also have a huge window swamp cooler unit with a super strong fan. Something
> similar to this:
>
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/MasterCool-1600-sq-ft-Window-Evaporative-Cooler-3200-CFM/4664615
>
> Not the exact one I have, but close enough.

Thanks for showing me.

>>> My first 2 years of college also involved regular sessions dormitories
>>> w/o a/c and most classrooms and labs. My summertimes dorm was a/c/ed.
>>> Next 2 y I believe everything was a/c except my car.
>>
>> Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!
>
> In some places it is the norm... try living in Vegas or Phoenix.

I've driven through Las Vegas (stayed overnight at Circus Circus) and driven
across Death Valley!
We didn't even try using the ACU in the Winebego motorhome! ;-)

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 21:06:42 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 17/02/2024 14:34, David B. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> Got it - thank you. Would you, please, help with my confusion?
>>
>> What is "NHS - Stoke rehab"?
>
> You live in England and are a native English speaker yes?
>
> You know who the N.H.S are right?
>
> You know what a stroke is right?

Yes of course. But YOU called it STOKE hospital.

> You know the range of consequences of suffering a stroke might be and so
> what 'rehab' might be in that context?
>
> Have you been drinking ... ?

I stopped drinking nearly six years ago.

>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> That's good to hear. I believe it best for families to look after and care for
>>>> one another if that is possible.
>>>
>>> WE are sceptical that sister will be able to cope, even with visiting
>>> carers but time will tell.
>>
>> Maybe she will be able to manage with your help.
>
> Maybe and hopefully in time ... however, I've got enough on my own plate
> right now ...

Have you had your own diagnosis now?

>>> When asked, Mum requested she went into a nursing home.
>>
>> It can be VERY expensive.
>
> It can indeed, however, she can't take it with her ...

Indeed. There are no pockets in shrouds.

>>>>> So, does hat help add a few more datum points to your map? Have you run
>>>>> out of pins and string yet? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Haha! I actually keep it all in my head. I rarely make mistakes in recall
>>>> about people - at least that is how things have been!
>>>
>>> Till you started to lose your memory (mind?) ...
>>
>> Maybe so! :-)
>
> More than 'maybe' methinks OM.

Impossible for me to judge.

>>>> Enjoy your day!
>>>>
>>> Not much chance of that, just visiting (what's left of) my Mum again
>>> when I should be doing loads of other stuff.
>>
>> You need the points, Tim! ;-)
>
> If I haven't earned them yet then it's bit too late now.

It's never too late.

>> (Everything is recorded in heaven!)
>
> How do you know that? Have you been there?
>
>>>
>>> [1] If there was ever an example needed to demonstrate the existence of
>>> brain lateralisation (to the thickos) it is to observe stroke victims.
>>
>> I've never wanted to be that close.
>
> I've never *wanted* to either?
>
>> So sad. :-(
>
> It is, for sure.

So sorry I can't be of help.

D.

[Mike Easter]

BDB. wrote:
> Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!

I bought my first 3 cars w/ my own earned money, and I also had to
'support' the gas, oil, insurance, maintenance, tires.

In those days in TX, because it was an ag (for agriculture)
community/state, one could have a driver license at 14 (via drivers' ed)
which I did. Back in those days, gas didn't cost much.

During days after hs, things were a little different about vehicles;
more complex, more 'giving a car away' in passing it along and 'getting
another car/truck' from someone.

I would say, in 'rural' TX a car was a necessity; the only time I got
around w/o a car was in jr hi when I could get to school or to work on a
bicycle.

Even today, the Texans I know don't hesitate to drive great distances
for some small reasons. When I go to TX, I fly to a major city, rent a
car and drive another 2 hours to get to my dest, rather than flying to
the dest before renting a car. The economics and convenience are all
considered in that.


--
Mike Easter

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 21:26:32 GMT, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

> BDB. wrote:
>> Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!
>
> I bought my first 3 cars w/ my own earned money, and I also had to
> 'support' the gas, oil, insurance, maintenance, tires.
>
> In those days in TX, because it was an ag (for agriculture)
> community/state, one could have a driver license at 14 (via drivers' ed)
> which I did. Back in those days, gas didn't cost much.
>
> During days after hs, things were a little different about vehicles;
> more complex, more 'giving a car away' in passing it along and 'getting
> another car/truck' from someone.
>
> I would say, in 'rural' TX a car was a necessity; the only time I got
> around w/o a car was in jr hi when I could get to school or to work on a
> bicycle.

When at school I travelled only by bicycle or Trolley Bus!
(Unless as a passenger in a car!)

>
> Even today, the Texans I know don't hesitate to drive great distances
> for some small reasons. When I go to TX, I fly to a major city, rent a
> car and drive another 2 hours to get to my dest, rather than flying to
> the dest before renting a car. The economics and convenience are all
> considered in that.

At your great age, why are you still travelling vast distances at all?!!!

[Snit]

On Feb 17, 2024 at 2:09:46 PM MST, "David B." wrote
<l3clkq...@mid.individual.net>:

Hey, I have the swamp cooler to use less energy.

>
>>>> There was an attic (whole house) fan then before the a/cs were useful; I
>>>> still have a whole house fan today which I use *more* often than a/c,
>>>> but usually the breeze eliminates any need for that fan, so I don't use
>>>> a/c nor house fan nowadays. And this isn't TX :-)
>>>
>>> I've never heard of a "whole house" fan but understand what it must do.
>>> (Create a flow of air throughout the property).
>>
>> My heating / cooling system also has the ability to just have a fan going. I
>> also have a huge window swamp cooler unit with a super strong fan. Something
>> similar to this:
>>
>> https://www.lowes.com/pd/MasterCool-1600-sq-ft-Window-Evaporative-Cooler-3200-CFM/4664615
>>
>> Not the exact one I have, but close enough.
>
> Thanks for showing me.

You are welcome.

>
>>>> My first 2 years of college also involved regular sessions dormitories
>>>> w/o a/c and most classrooms and labs. My summertimes dorm was a/c/ed.
>>>> Next 2 y I believe everything was a/c except my car.
>>>
>>> Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!
>>
>> In some places it is the norm... try living in Vegas or Phoenix.
>
> I've driven through Las Vegas (stayed overnight at Circus Circus) and driven
> across Death Valley!
> We didn't even try using the ACU in the Winebego motorhome! ;-)

What time of year?

[T i m]

On 17/02/2024 21:25, David B. wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2024 at 21:06:42 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 17/02/2024 14:34, David B. wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Got it - thank you. Would you, please, help with my confusion?
>>>
>>> What is "NHS - Stoke rehab"?
>>
>> You live in England and are a native English speaker yes?
>>
>> You know who the N.H.S are right?
>>
>> You know what a stroke is right?
>
> Yes of course. But YOU called it STOKE hospital.

<sigh> I didn't, I called it 'Stoke rehab' and you still couldn't fix
that typo with the current context of my Mum having a stroke?

>
>> You know the range of consequences of suffering a stroke might be and so
>> what 'rehab' might be in that context?
>>
>> Have you been drinking ... ?
>
> I stopped drinking nearly six years ago.

Yeah, you say that but you believe in some magic book so all truth bets
are off!

>
>> Maybe and hopefully in time ... however, I've got enough on my own plate
>> right now ...
>
> Have you had your own diagnosis now?

Yes, last Feb?

>
>>>> When asked, Mum requested she went into a nursing home.
>>>
>>> It can be VERY expensive.
>>
>> It can indeed, however, she can't take it with her ...
>
> Indeed. There are no pockets in shrouds.

Especially after she's been though the cremulator. ;-(
>

<snip>

>>>> Till you started to lose your memory (mind?) ...
>>>
>>> Maybe so! :-)
>>
>> More than 'maybe' methinks OM.
>
> Impossible for me to judge.

True dat.

>
>>>>> Enjoy your day!
>>>>>
>>>> Not much chance of that, just visiting (what's left of) my Mum again
>>>> when I should be doing loads of other stuff.
>>>
>>> You need the points, Tim! ;-)
>>
>> If I haven't earned them yet then it's bit too late now.
>
> It's never too late.

Only in your crazy 'say sorry at the end and all will be forgiven' bs.
>
<snip>

Cheers, T i m

[David B.]

I don't know anything about such devices!

>>>>> There was an attic (whole house) fan then before the a/cs were useful; I
>>>>> still have a whole house fan today which I use *more* often than a/c,
>>>>> but usually the breeze eliminates any need for that fan, so I don't use
>>>>> a/c nor house fan nowadays. And this isn't TX :-)
>>>>
>>>> I've never heard of a "whole house" fan but understand what it must do.
>>>> (Create a flow of air throughout the property).
>>>
>>> My heating / cooling system also has the ability to just have a fan going. I
>>> also have a huge window swamp cooler unit with a super strong fan. Something
>>> similar to this:
>>>
>>> https://www.lowes.com/pd/MasterCool-1600-sq-ft-Window-Evaporative-Cooler-3200-CFM/4664615
>>>
>>> Not the exact one I have, but close enough.
>>
>> Thanks for showing me.
>
> You are welcome.

:-)

>>>>> My first 2 years of college also involved regular sessions dormitories
>>>>> w/o a/c and most classrooms and labs. My summertimes dorm was a/c/ed.
>>>>> Next 2 y I believe everything was a/c except my car.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!
>>>
>>> In some places it is the norm... try living in Vegas or Phoenix.
>>
>> I've driven through Las Vegas (stayed overnight at Circus Circus) and driven
>> across Death Valley!
>> We didn't even try using the ACU in the Winebego motorhome! ;-)
>
> What time of year?

Mid-October through to early November

We had snow when visiting the Grand Canyon!

[Mike Easter]

BDB wrote:
> When at school I travelled only by bicycle or Trolley Bus!
> (Unless as a passenger in a car!)

In small town rural TX, there is 'no such thing' as any kind of public
transportation, paid or otherwise; you could walk, ride a bicycle, or
'drive' a car unless you didn't have one.

I don't think we had any such thing as a 'bus stop' such as Greyhound
which some larger TX towns had. I used to take the train to OK every
summer; my parents would drive me to a nearby town which had a train
stop/station (actually no station per se, just a stop) to catch the
train; likewise my father would pick me up on the OK end; reverse repeat
for the return.

In the earliest days of those train rides, there was a Santa Fe Chief
'hostess' who checked on me; I don't know exactly what her other duties
were. There was also a dining car and a club car; what was cool about
the dining car was real silver silverware, which I hadn't seen before
that, and likewise linen napkins and tablecloth, also unknown by me.
The style of the black uniformed waiter was to not use any notepad in
taking the order for a meal, whether it was one person like me or a
table full.

That was my only train riding for years, except one year when my
'grandfather' (to be described) an avid Boy Scout supporter wanted me to
go to the World Jamboree which was in Valley Forge PA which involved a
lot of train traveling and sightseeing all over the US on the way to the
jamboree.

He wasn't really my grandfather, conventionally. My father's mother
died in his infancy; his father wasn't up for the single parent role, so
he turned to his sister and her husband, who were childless to raise his
son. That husband was the closest to a grandfather I had. Both my
mother's parents had died either before or during my infancy; I don't
know when my father's father died, but I never knew him either.

So, bio-wise, I was the only child of two only children.


--
Mike Easter

[%]

monday

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 22:24:10 GMT, "Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

> BDB wrote:
>> When at school I travelled only by bicycle or Trolley Bus!
>> (Unless as a passenger in a car!)
>
> In small town rural TX, there is 'no such thing' as any kind of public
> transportation, paid or otherwise; you could walk, ride a bicycle, or
> 'drive' a car unless you didn't have one.

Surely you learned to ride a horse too?!!

> I don't think we had any such thing as a 'bus stop' such as Greyhound
> which some larger TX towns had. I used to take the train to OK every
> summer; my parents would drive me to a nearby town which had a train
> stop/station (actually no station per se, just a stop) to catch the
> train; likewise my father would pick me up on the OK end; reverse repeat
> for the return.

Why OK?

> In the earliest days of those train rides, there was a Santa Fe Chief
> 'hostess' who checked on me; I don't know exactly what her other duties
> were. There was also a dining car and a club car; what was cool about
> the dining car was real silver silverware, which I hadn't seen before
> that, and likewise linen napkins and tablecloth, also unknown by me.
> The style of the black uniformed waiter was to not use any notepad in
> taking the order for a meal, whether it was one person like me or a
> table full.

That latter skill was quite some feat!

> That was my only train riding for years, except one year when my
> 'grandfather' (to be described) an avid Boy Scout supporter wanted me to
> go to the World Jamboree which was in Valley Forge PA which involved a
> lot of train traveling and sightseeing all over the US on the way to the
> jamboree.

Great fun I imagine!

> He wasn't really my grandfather, conventionally. My father's mother
> died in his infancy; his father wasn't up for the single parent role, so
> he turned to his sister and her husband, who were childless to raise his
> son. That husband was the closest to a grandfather I had. Both my
> mother's parents had died either before or during my infancy; I don't
> know when my father's father died, but I never knew him either.
>
> So, bio-wise, I was the only child of two only children.

Thank you for engaging in conversation, Mike.
Much as I'd like to continue, it's fast approaching my bedtime so I'll ask no
more questions.

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 22:14:09 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 17/02/2024 21:25, David B. wrote:
>> On 17 Feb 2024 at 21:06:42 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/02/2024 14:34, David B. wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> Got it - thank you. Would you, please, help with my confusion?
>>>>
>>>> What is "NHS - Stoke rehab"?
>>>
>>> You live in England and are a native English speaker yes?
>>>
>>> You know who the N.H.S are right?
>>>
>>> You know what a stroke is right?
>>
>> Yes of course. But YOU called it STOKE hospital.
>
> <sigh> I didn't, I called it 'Stoke rehab' and you still couldn't fix
> that typo with the current context of my Mum having a stroke?

Have it your way. You appear to have deliberately misled me.

>>> You know the range of consequences of suffering a stroke might be and so
>>> what 'rehab' might be in that context?
>>>
>>> Have you been drinking ... ?
>>
>> I stopped drinking nearly six years ago.
>
> Yeah, you say that but you believe in some magic book so all truth bets
> are off!

Because of that, I tell you the truth.

>>> Maybe and hopefully in time ... however, I've got enough on my own plate
>>> right now ...
>>
>> Have you had your own diagnosis now?
>
> Yes, last Feb?

Are you going to say what ails you?
Is it something serious or a simple cancer?

>>>>> When asked, Mum requested she went into a nursing home.
>>>>
>>>> It can be VERY expensive.
>>>
>>> It can indeed, however, she can't take it with her ...
>>
>> Indeed. There are no pockets in shrouds.
>
> Especially after she's been though the cremulator. ;-(

I used to use the phrase with my clients when encouraging them to spend and/or
give away some of their wealth.

>>>>> Till you started to lose your memory (mind?) ...
>>>>
>>>> Maybe so! :-)
>>>
>>> More than 'maybe' methinks OM.
>>
>> Impossible for me to judge.
>
> True dat.

:-)

>>>>>> Enjoy your day!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not much chance of that, just visiting (what's left of) my Mum again
>>>>> when I should be doing loads of other stuff.
>>>>
>>>> You need the points, Tim! ;-)
>>>
>>> If I haven't earned them yet then it's bit too late now.
>>
>> It's never too late.
>
> Only in your crazy 'say sorry at the end and all will be forgiven' bs.

You are once again mistaken. <shrug>

[Mike Easter]

BDB wrote:

> "Mike Easter" wrote:
>> BDB wrote:
>>> When at school I travelled only by bicycle or Trolley Bus!
>>> (Unless as a passenger in a car!)
>>
>> In small town rural TX, there is 'no such thing' as any kind of public
>> transportation, paid or otherwise; you could walk, ride a bicycle, or
>> 'drive' a car unless you didn't have one.
>
> Surely you learned to ride a horse too?!!
>

I forgot about horses. We didn't have any during my TX schooldays. I
was on a 'paltry' OK 'ranch' in early childhood and grades 1&2 and we
had a horse and a cow, chickens and pigs, (and I raised a calf) there.

In TX I had a few occasions to ride a borrowed horse, such as on the
Salt Grass Trail Ride; but I was never any place that had commonplace
horse riding. No one in my small town rode a horse in town. After all,
we got paved streets and curbs shortly after I got there in the 4th grade.

My mother was born in that paltry ranch house, and regularly rode her
'pony' to school, the same tiny school house I later attended for 1&2.

>> likewise my father would pick me up on the OK end; reverse repeat
>> for the return.
>
> Why OK?
>

Oklahoma; my father was in OK.

>
>> That was my only train riding for years, except one year when my
>> 'grandfather' (to be described) an avid Boy Scout supporter wanted me to
>> go to the World Jamboree which was in Valley Forge PA which involved a
>> lot of train traveling and sightseeing all over the US on the way to the
>> jamboree.
>
> Great fun I imagine!
>

Very good trip; I planned ahead and had some great things to trade at
the jamboree, such as horned toads. Guys from other countries loved
those things.



--
Mike Easter

[Snit]

On Feb 17, 2024 at 3:28:03 PM MST, "%" wrote
<0-Ocnf7ttdlpr0z4...@giganews.com>:

One of my favorite times of year.

[Snit]

On Feb 17, 2024 at 3:22:55 PM MST, "David B." wrote
<l3cptv...@mid.individual.net>:

>
>>>>>> My first 2 years of college also involved regular sessions dormitories
>>>>>> w/o a/c and most classrooms and labs. My summertimes dorm was a/c/ed.
>>>>>> Next 2 y I believe everything was a/c except my car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds as if you were quite spoilt, Mike!
>>>>
>>>> In some places it is the norm... try living in Vegas or Phoenix.
>>>
>>> I've driven through Las Vegas (stayed overnight at Circus Circus) and driven
>>> across Death Valley!
>>> We didn't even try using the ACU in the Winebego motorhome! ;-)
>>
>> What time of year?
>
> Mid-October through to early November

Try again in July and August. :)

>
> We had snow when visiting the Grand Canyon!

Awesome.

I once went to the Grand Canyon with 4 British women... we got there in the
evening and could not find a good place to camp. Ended up sleeping at a scenic
overlook -- risking getting a fine. Woke to an amazing sun rise.

[T i m]

On 17/02/2024 22:47, David B. wrote:

<snip>

>
>>>> Maybe and hopefully in time ... however, I've got enough on my own plate
>>>> right now ...
>>>
>>> Have you had your own diagnosis now?
>>
>> Yes, last Feb?
>
> Are you going to say what ails you?

Can do.

> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?

It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
treatment doesn't cause any further issues.

Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92

RALP planning: Right side nerve spare, MUL 19mm, tiny median lobe, early T3a

Other imaging summery: CT scan and bone scan no mets.

I didn't go for surgery at the last moment so now on Hormone Therapy and
waiting for my PSA to drop to one or less to start the radiotherapy.

The problem is, after 4 months of HT my testosterone has only dropped to
10 (from 12, should be near zero by now) and my PSA to 3.x (from 6.x).

My next CT scan is to check the node they spotted on my lung ...

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 23:36:45 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 17/02/2024 22:47, David B. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>>>>> Maybe and hopefully in time ... however, I've got enough on my own plate
>>>>> right now ...
>>>>
>>>> Have you had your own diagnosis now?
>>>
>>> Yes, last Feb?
>>
>> Are you going to say what ails you?
>
> Can do.

Thank you.

>> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?
>
> It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
> treatment doesn't cause any further issues.
>
> Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
> volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92

I copied that item and Googled it - this is what I was shown:-

https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer-forum/f/diagnosis-and-treatment/266286/if-you-had-the-choice-of-treatment-what-did-you-choose-and-why-please

One can just FEEL the anxiety of "Able".
Is it you I now wonder?!!

> RALP planning: Right side nerve spare, MUL 19mm, tiny median lobe, early T3a
>
> Other imaging summery: CT scan and bone scan no mets.
>
> I didn't go for surgery at the last moment so now on Hormone Therapy and
> waiting for my PSA to drop to one or less to start the radiotherapy.
>
> The problem is, after 4 months of HT my testosterone has only dropped to
> 10 (from 12, should be near zero by now) and my PSA to 3.x (from 6.x).
>
> My next CT scan is to check the node they spotted on my lung ...

I really appreciate you taking the time and trouble to explain matters. I well
recall a life-long pal of mine standing next to me steering my narrowboat and
explaining that he had prostate cancer and that he was going to have to make a
daily trip to his local hospital for radio therapy. A 50 mile round trip
taking nearly an hour each way. That was over 25 years ago and I'm pleased to
advise that he's still playing golf to this day!

Perhaps you'll enjoy positive news after your CT scan.

I do hope so.

--
David

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 11:25, David B. wrote:

<snip>

>
>>> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?
>>
>> It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
>> treatment doesn't cause any further issues.
>>
>> Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
>> volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92
>
> I copied that item and Googled it

I guessed you might.

>- this is what I was shown:-
>
> https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer-forum/f/diagnosis-and-treatment/266286/if-you-had-the-choice-of-treatment-what-did-you-choose-and-why-please
>
> One can just FEEL the anxiety of "Able".

Able Seamen ... prostate ... getit?

> Is it you I now wonder?!!

Of course you do.

>
>> RALP planning: Right side nerve spare, MUL 19mm, tiny median lobe, early T3a
>>
>> Other imaging summery: CT scan and bone scan no mets.
>>
>> I didn't go for surgery at the last moment so now on Hormone Therapy and
>> waiting for my PSA to drop to one or less to start the radiotherapy.
>>
>> The problem is, after 4 months of HT my testosterone has only dropped to
>> 10 (from 12, should be near zero by now) and my PSA to 3.x (from 6.x).
>>
>> My next CT scan is to check the node they spotted on my lung ...
>
> I really appreciate you taking the time and trouble to explain matters.

Have you run out of pins and string yet?

> I well
> recall a life-long pal of mine standing next to me steering my narrowboat and
> explaining that he had prostate cancer and that he was going to have to make a
> daily trip to his local hospital for radio therapy.

Yup. Used to be 37 visits M-F, mine should be 20. If you were on the
PACE trial it was only 5 days with what started with the 'CyberKnife' RT
machine and no HT. I don't think I would have been eligible for that
proceedure as it's not suitable for 'High Risk' situations like mine.

> A 50 mile round trip
> taking nearly an hour each way.

Similar to us visiting Mum.

> That was over 25 years ago and I'm pleased to
> advise that he's still playing golf to this day!

Yup. History is written by the winners though eh.

>
> Perhaps you'll enjoy positive news after your CT scan.

This is for the node they spotted on my lung when checking for cancer
spread last year. ...
>
> I do hope so.
>
Running out of pins and string? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[David B.]

On 18 Feb 2024 at 12:28:41 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 18/02/2024 11:25, David B. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>>>> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?
>>>
>>> It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
>>> treatment doesn't cause any further issues.
>>>
>>> Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
>>> volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92
>>
>> I copied that item and Googled it
>
> I guessed you might.
>
>> - this is what I was shown:-
>>
>> https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer-forum/f/diagnosis-and-treatment/266286/if-you-had-the-choice-of-treatment-what-did-you-choose-and-why-please
>>
>> One can just FEEL the anxiety of "Able".
>
> Able Seamen ... prostate ... getit?
>
>> Is it you I now wonder?!!
>
> Of course you do.

Was it you?

>>> RALP planning: Right side nerve spare, MUL 19mm, tiny median lobe, early T3a
>>>
>>> Other imaging summery: CT scan and bone scan no mets.
>>>
>>> I didn't go for surgery at the last moment so now on Hormone Therapy and
>>> waiting for my PSA to drop to one or less to start the radiotherapy.
>>>
>>> The problem is, after 4 months of HT my testosterone has only dropped to
>>> 10 (from 12, should be near zero by now) and my PSA to 3.x (from 6.x).
>>>
>>> My next CT scan is to check the node they spotted on my lung ...
>>
>> I really appreciate you taking the time and trouble to explain matters.
>
> Have you run out of pins and string yet?

No! :-D

>> I well
>> recall a life-long pal of mine standing next to me steering my narrowboat and
>> explaining that he had prostate cancer and that he was going to have to make a
>> daily trip to his local hospital for radio therapy.
>
> Yup. Used to be 37 visits M-F, mine should be 20. If you were on the
> PACE trial it was only 5 days with what started with the 'CyberKnife' RT
> machine and no HT. I don't think I would have been eligible for that
> proceedure as it's not suitable for 'High Risk' situations like mine.
>
>> A 50 mile round trip
>> taking nearly an hour each way.
>
> Similar to us visiting Mum.
>
>> That was over 25 years ago and I'm pleased to
>> advise that he's still playing golf to this day!
>
> Yup. History is written by the winners though eh.

Yes. It's all in The Holy Bible.

Winners take all! :-)

>> Perhaps you'll enjoy positive news after your CT scan.
>
> This is for the node they spotted on my lung when checking for cancer
> spread last year. ...
>>
>> I do hope so.

I meant it.

> Running out of pins and string? ;-)

Not at all. But why are YOU .... "High Risk"?

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 12:53, David B. wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2024 at 12:28:41 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 18/02/2024 11:25, David B. wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?
>>>>
>>>> It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
>>>> treatment doesn't cause any further issues.
>>>>
>>>> Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
>>>> volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92
>>>
>>> I copied that item and Googled it
>>
>> I guessed you might.
>>
>>> - this is what I was shown:-
>>>
>>> https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer-forum/f/diagnosis-and-treatment/266286/if-you-had-the-choice-of-treatment-what-did-you-choose-and-why-please
>>>
>>> One can just FEEL the anxiety of "Able".
>>
>> Able Seamen ... prostate ... getit?
>>
>>> Is it you I now wonder?!!
>>
>> Of course you do.
>
> Was it you?

Why are you still asking? And not that I care and considering you knew
it was, is posting the link something you would consider acceptable if
it were you?

I know it's all part of your MO (and why I tested you with it it) and
'of course', you couldn't stop yourself.
>
<snip religious BS>

>>> Perhaps you'll enjoy positive news after your CT scan.
>>
>> This is for the node they spotted on my lung when checking for cancer
>> spread last year. ...
>>>
>>> I do hope so.
>
> I meant it.

Thanks.

>
>> Running out of pins and string? ;-)
>
> Not at all.

Thought not, or will it be wall space that runs out first?

> But why are YOU .... "High Risk"?

Because the cancer was about to or had, broken though the capsule wall
and so more difficult to fix and more likely to spread.

Cheers, T i m

[David B.]

On 18 Feb 2024 at 13:16:23 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 18/02/2024 12:53, David B. wrote:
>> On 18 Feb 2024 at 12:28:41 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18/02/2024 11:25, David B. wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
>>>>> treatment doesn't cause any further issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
>>>>> volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92
>>>>
>>>> I copied that item and Googled it
>>>
>>> I guessed you might.
>>>
>>>> - this is what I was shown:-
>>>>
>>>> https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer-forum/f/diagnosis-and-treatment/266286/if-you-had-the-choice-of-treatment-what-did-you-choose-and-why-please
>>>>
>>>> One can just FEEL the anxiety of "Able".
>>>
>>> Able Seamen ... prostate ... getit?
>>>
>>>> Is it you I now wonder?!!
>>>
>>> Of course you do.
>>
>> Was it you?
>
> Why are you still asking?

Because you refused to answer.

Why didn't you just say 'yes' (or 'no' had that been the case).

> And not that I care and considering you knew
> it was, is posting the link something you would consider acceptable if
> it were you?
>
> I know it's all part of your MO (and why I tested you with it it) and
> 'of course', you couldn't stop yourself.

I have no understanding of your thought processes, Tim.

There is no need to 'test' me. Simply ask questions.

>>
> <snip religious BS>
>
>>>> Perhaps you'll enjoy positive news after your CT scan.
>>>
>>> This is for the node they spotted on my lung when checking for cancer
>>> spread last year. ...
>>>>
>>>> I do hope so.
>>
>> I meant it.
>
> Thanks.

YW :-)

>>> Running out of pins and string? ;-)
>>
>> Not at all.
>
> Thought not, or will it be wall space that runs out first?
>
>> But why are YOU .... "High Risk"?
>
> Because the cancer was about to or had, broken though the capsule wall
> and so more difficult to fix and more likely to spread.

I now understand.
I learn a lot here on Usenet!!
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/prostate-cancer/stages/locally-advanced-prostate-cancer

I can appreciate that you are somewhat nervous. I'm sure your daughter will
help you as and when necessary.

Are you already in touch with these folk? https://www.macmillan.org.uk/

They wiil help too.

--
David

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 15:45, David B. wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2024 at 13:16:23 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 18/02/2024 12:53, David B. wrote:
>>> On 18 Feb 2024 at 12:28:41 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 18/02/2024 11:25, David B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
>>>>>> treatment doesn't cause any further issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
>>>>>> volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92
>>>>>
>>>>> I copied that item and Googled it
>>>>
>>>> I guessed you might.
>>>>
>>>>> - this is what I was shown:-
>>>>>
>>>>> https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer-forum/f/diagnosis-and-treatment/266286/if-you-had-the-choice-of-treatment-what-did-you-choose-and-why-please
>>>>>
>>>>> One can just FEEL the anxiety of "Able".
>>>>
>>>> Able Seamen ... prostate ... getit?
>>>>
>>>>> Is it you I now wonder?!!
>>>>
>>>> Of course you do.
>>>
>>> Was it you?
>>
>> Why are you still asking?
>
> Because you refused to answer.

Oh, because you *think* you have the rights to an answer. I suppose you
would call the Police on me if I hadn't?

>
> Why didn't you just say 'yes' (or 'no' had that been the case).

Because I have no obligation to you to do so.

>
>> And not that I care and considering you knew
>> it was, is posting the link something you would consider acceptable if
>> it were you?
>>
>> I know it's all part of your MO (and why I tested you with it it) and
>> 'of course', you couldn't stop yourself.
>
> I have no understanding of your thought processes, Tim.

Or the thought processes of most 'normal' people by the looks of it.

>
> There is no need to 'test' me.

It wasn't that sort of test was it.

> Simply ask questions.

I had no questions to ask of you. Little of what you say is of any
relevance to me.

>
>>>
>> <snip religious BS>
>>
>>>>> Perhaps you'll enjoy positive news after your CT scan.
>>>>
>>>> This is for the node they spotted on my lung when checking for cancer
>>>> spread last year. ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I do hope so.
>>>
>>> I meant it.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> YW :-)
>
>>>> Running out of pins and string? ;-)
>>>
>>> Not at all.
>>
>> Thought not, or will it be wall space that runs out first?
>>
>>> But why are YOU .... "High Risk"?
>>
>> Because the cancer was about to or had, broken though the capsule wall
>> and so more difficult to fix and more likely to spread.
>
> I now understand.

I'm not sure about that.

> I learn a lot here on Usenet!!

You learn a lot about 'other people' you mean?

> https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/prostate-cancer/stages/locally-advanced-prostate-cancer
>
> I can appreciate that you are somewhat nervous.

I'm not 'nervous', it's just frustrating.

> I'm sure your daughter will
> help you as and when necessary.

She will only be able to help if she leans how to offer a 100% cure for
cancer.

>
> Are you already in touch with these folk? https://www.macmillan.org.uk/

You quoted a link that would suggest I am? Why are you so slow? Is it
you rely too much on your magic book for everything?
>
> They wiil help too.
>
There are all sorts of people out there that *try* to offer help, that's
for sure but the real help is only likely to come from machines, drugs
and knives.

Cheers, T i m

[Snit]

On Feb 18, 2024 at 9:08:04 AM MST, "T i m" wrote
<uqta16$19jfl$1...@dont-email.me>:

> On 18/02/2024 15:45, David B. wrote:
>> On 18 Feb 2024 at 13:16:23 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18/02/2024 12:53, David B. wrote:
>>>> On 18 Feb 2024 at 12:28:41 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/02/2024 11:25, David B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It might be a simple cancer, as long as it doesn't metastasise and any
>>>>>>> treatment doesn't cause any further issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oncology summary: Gleeson 4+4, stage T2N0M0, cores 4/17 MCL, 11mm,
>>>>>>> volume of the gland 48cc, PSA 4.92
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I copied that item and Googled it
>>>>>
>>>>> I guessed you might.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - this is what I was shown:-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cancer_types/prostate-cancer-forum/f/diagnosis-and-treatment/266286/if-you-had-the-choice-of-treatment-what-did-you-choose-and-why-please
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One can just FEEL the anxiety of "Able".
>>>>>
>>>>> Able Seamen ... prostate ... getit?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it you I now wonder?!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course you do.
>>>>
>>>> Was it you?
>>>
>>> Why are you still asking?
>>
>> Because you refused to answer.
>
> Oh, because you *think* you have the rights to an answer.

Sincere question: who demands people respond more than you do... other than
maybe Gremlin? You two are the kinds of repetition.

> I suppose you
> would call the Police on me if I hadn't?

You had the police get involved when you repeatedly contacted my clients and
demanded they reply to you. Now you twist that to pretend you were the victim.

[David B.]

<COUGH> Who do YOU think you are responding to, Snit?!!!

[David B.]

On 17 Feb 2024 at 08:20:26 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On 16/02/2024 22:56, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> It happens that T i m formulated :
>>> On 16/02/2024 21:45, David B. wrote:
>>>> On 16 Feb 2024 at 18:30:58 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mums care home
>>>>
>>>> How far away from your house is that care home?
>>>
>>> Why do you want to know?
>>
>> He's probably drawing a map. :)
>
> You can see it now ... walls in every room covered with photos and pins
> and strings ... ;-)
>
> But hey, it's good to have a hobby! ;-)

Do YOU suffer from the same thing as Rafters?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_complex

[Steve Carroll]

Wake up already. Who *isn't* aware he 'sees' around every corner, under
every rock?

[David B.]

Police? WTF are you on about now?

If you WANT to have a conversation, I AM entitled to an answer.

>> Why didn't you just say 'yes' (or 'no' had that been the case).
>
> Because I have no obligation to you to do so.

If you want to have a conversation with me then you ARE obliged to respond in
a civilised manner.

>>> And not that I care and considering you knew
>>> it was, is posting the link something you would consider acceptable if
>>> it were you?
>>>
>>> I know it's all part of your MO (and why I tested you with it it) and
>>> 'of course', you couldn't stop yourself.
>>
>> I have no understanding of your thought processes, Tim.
>
> Or the thought processes of most 'normal' people by the looks of it.

False.

>> There is no need to 'test' me.
>
> It wasn't that sort of test was it.

I've no idea what you are trying to prove.

>> Simply ask questions.
>
> I had no questions to ask of you. Little of what you say is of any
> relevance to me.

<shrug>

>>> <snip religious BS>
>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps you'll enjoy positive news after your CT scan.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is for the node they spotted on my lung when checking for cancer
>>>>> spread last year. ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do hope so.
>>>>
>>>> I meant it.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> YW :-)
>>
>>>>> Running out of pins and string? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Not at all.
>>>
>>> Thought not, or will it be wall space that runs out first?
>>>
>>>> But why are YOU .... "High Risk"?
>>>
>>> Because the cancer was about to or had, broken though the capsule wall
>>> and so more difficult to fix and more likely to spread.
>>
>> I now understand.
>
> I'm not sure about that.

You are the one with the defective organs.
I don't NEED to know.

>> I learn a lot here on Usenet!!
>
> You learn a lot about 'other people' you mean?

Most folk on Usenet are frightened to show their true selves.

>> https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/prostate-cancer/stages/locally-advanced-prostate-cancer
>>
>> I can appreciate that you are somewhat nervous.
>
> I'm not 'nervous', it's just frustrating.

FRIGHTENED might be a more appropriate term.

>> I'm sure your daughter will
>> help you as and when necessary.
>
> She will only be able to help if she leans how to offer a 100% cure for
> cancer.

Only God can do that.

>> Are you already in touch with these folk? https://www.macmillan.org.uk/
>
> You quoted a link that would suggest I am? Why are you so slow? Is it
> you rely too much on your magic book for everything?

Again, why not simply say 'yes' or 'no'?

>> They wiil help too.
>>
> There are all sorts of people out there that *try* to offer help, that's
> for sure but the real help is only likely to come from machines, drugs
> and knives.

Try Cannabis Oil?

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative-therapies/individual-therapies/cannabis

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 19:00, David B. wrote:

<snip>

>>>>> Was it you?
>>>>
>>>> Why are you still asking?
>>>
>>> Because you refused to answer.
>>
>> Oh, because you *think* you have the rights to an answer. I suppose you
>> would call the Police on me if I hadn't?
>
> Police? WTF are you on about now?

Because that's what you do when you don't get what you want.

>
> If you WANT to have a conversation,

And I didn't.

> I AM entitled to an answer.

You are ENTITLED to NOTHING.

>
>>> Why didn't you just say 'yes' (or 'no' had that been the case).
>>
>> Because I have no obligation to you to do so.
>
> If you want to have a conversation with me then you ARE obliged to respond in
> a civilised manner.

See above.

>
>>>> And not that I care and considering you knew
>>>> it was, is posting the link something you would consider acceptable if
>>>> it were you?
>>>>
>>>> I know it's all part of your MO (and why I tested you with it it) and
>>>> 'of course', you couldn't stop yourself.
>>>
>>> I have no understanding of your thought processes, Tim.
>>
>> Or the thought processes of most 'normal' people by the looks of it.
>
> False.

Nope, still true.

>
>>> There is no need to 'test' me.
>>
>> It wasn't that sort of test was it.
>
> I've no idea what you are trying to prove.

I'm not trying to 'prove' anything. I'm trying to stick to the point.

So you still think it was 'ok' to post the link when you were likely 99%
sure it was me just to check? Bullshit. Again, it's 'what you do' and
exactly what I expected.

>
>>> Simply ask questions.
>>
>> I had no questions to ask of you. Little of what you say is of any
>> relevance to me.
>
> <shrug>
>

<snip>

>>> I now understand.
>>
>> I'm not sure about that.
>
> You are the one with the defective organs.

Except not the ones that control thought and reason.

> I don't NEED to know.<snip relegious BS>

>
>>> I learn a lot here on Usenet!!
>>
>> You learn a lot about 'other people' you mean?
>
> Most folk on Usenet are frightened to show their true selves.

Because there are stalkers like you out there. You particularly have a
reputation for it.

>
>>> https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/prostate-cancer/stages/locally-advanced-prostate-cancer
>>>
>>> I can appreciate that you are somewhat nervous.
>>
>> I'm not 'nervous', it's just frustrating.
>
> FRIGHTENED might be a more appropriate term.

For whom? I'm not afraid of dying.

>
>>> I'm sure your daughter will
>>> help you as and when necessary.
>>
>> She will only be able to help if she leans how to offer a 100% cure for
>> cancer.
>
> Only God can do that.

Bwhahaha ... yeah, right.

>
>>> Are you already in touch with these folk? https://www.macmillan.org.uk/
>>
>> You quoted a link that would suggest I am? Why are you so slow? Is it
>> you rely too much on your magic book for everything?
>
> Again, why not simply say 'yes' or 'no'?

Because I didn't have to.

>
>>> They wiil help too.
>>>
>> There are all sorts of people out there that *try* to offer help, that's
>> for sure but the real help is only likely to come from machines, drugs
>> and knives.
>
> Try Cannabis Oil?

For what?
>
> https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative-therapies/individual-therapies/cannabis

Your 'complimentary therapies' are as relevant to me and any cure as you
praying (thanks).

I've been offered 6 weekly sessions of Reiki therapy free by a local
private hospital. I'd rather go for a nice walk thanks.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 18:42, David B. wrote:

<snip>

>> You can see it now ... walls in every room covered with photos and pins
>> and strings ... ;-)
>>
>> But hey, it's good to have a hobby! ;-)
>
> Do YOU suffer from the same thing as Rafters?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_complex

At 6' 2" tall, I doubt it (and more info for my note page).

Cheers, T i m

[Mike Easter]

T i m wrote:
> I've been offered 6 weekly sessions of Reiki therapy free by a local
> private hospital. I'd rather go for a nice walk thanks.

Good idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki

I just got back from a nice walk, thanks.

I wonder what the 'game' is behind the private hosp; likely they have a
variety of *other* alternative methods available there which are NOT
free, which they hustle to the attendees of their free Reiki.

--
Mike Easter

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 20:56, Mike Easter wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>> I've been offered 6 weekly sessions of Reiki therapy free by a local
>> private hospital. I'd rather go for a nice walk thanks.
>
> Good idea.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki
>
> I just got back from a nice walk, thanks.

;-)

>
> I wonder what the 'game' is behind the private hosp; likely they have a
> variety of *other* alternative methods available there which are NOT
> free, which they hustle to the attendees of their free Reiki.

(Being equally sceptical) I think that's it Mike.

TBF it was pretty 'soft sell' at the PC Support Group meeting and she
(their nurse / rep), also commented on how 'good' (supportive, combined
knowledge) the group was.

Cheers, T i m

[Mike Easter]

T i m wrote:
> TBF it was pretty 'soft sell' at the PC Support Group meeting and she
> (their nurse / rep), also commented on how 'good' (supportive, combined
> knowledge) the group was.

Some people don't really need/ want/ support from others unless it is
some kind of knowledge/ information/ 'arcane' facts that aren't
available otherwise. The emotional side of something is an individual
thing that some benefit greatly from support while others don't; and
then the benefit just goes to the supporters.

--
Mike Easter

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 22:54, Mike Easter wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>> TBF it was pretty 'soft sell' at the PC Support Group meeting and she
>> (their nurse / rep), also commented on how 'good' (supportive,
>> combined knowledge) the group was.
>
> Some people don't really need/ want/ support from others unless it is
> some kind of knowledge/ information/ 'arcane' facts that aren't
> available otherwise.

Or they seek of different types of support at different times.

Like I bailed on surgery (radical prostatectomy) the day before it was
due because it was only then I fully considered the word 'surgery'. Up
to that point it was just a word and the logical engineer in me went
along with the mechanics of 'It's easier to have remedial Radiotherapy
after surgery than the other way round' and the predicted outcome of
either solution were identical (80% survival at 5 years for my risk level).

> The emotional side of something is an individual
> thing that some benefit greatly from support

As I did when I bailed and was very confused and frustrated, not feeling
I could go though the surgery but that it might be the 'best choice'
(mechanically). I was also trying to consider all the side effects of
both and needed someone to step in and help me put an experienced /
end-user POV on it. Enter 12 survivors at the PCSG meeting.

> while others don't;

Quite. Many 'just want it out' and don't even consider anything else.

I am also a carer and so with surgery you aren't supposed to 'lift
anything heavier than a kettle for 6 weeks', so I can't lift her
wheelchair in and out of the car then?

> and
> then the benefit just goes to the supporters.

Sure.

Then there is the issue of 'survival but ...'

Cheers, T i m
>

[Mike Easter]

T i m wrote:
> 'It's easier to have remedial Radiotherapy after surgery than the other
> way round'

I had a very good friend who chose a combination of radium implants and
external rays over surgery. He managed the adverse effects from all that.

His next bigger problem was multiple myeloma which required a lot of
chemo, but that didn't kill him either.

He'd had some heart trouble since childhood and had atrial fib in his
senior years; indirectly that is what killed him because he died
suddenly of a stroke, probably related to throwing an embolus from that AF.

Sudden 'unexpected' death is a good way to go. We should all be so lucky.

--
Mike Easter

[T i m]

On 18/02/2024 23:39, Mike Easter wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>> 'It's easier to have remedial Radiotherapy after surgery than the
>> other way round'
>
> I had a very good friend who chose a combination of radium implants

Brachytherapy.

> and
> external rays over surgery.

Strangely, generally also just called Radiotherapy.

>  He managed the adverse effects from all that.

Good to hear.

They can insert gold implants in the prostate to aid targeting. One chap
said the therapist asked 'are you sure you are going ahead with that as
this is 500 GBP worth of gold ... '

>
> His next bigger problem was multiple myeloma which required a lot of
> chemo, but that didn't kill him either.

Chemo is a pretty brutal 'cure' and something I think we will look back
on as being barbaric.

>
> He'd had some heart trouble since childhood and had atrial fib in his
> senior years; indirectly that is what killed him because he died
> suddenly of a stroke, probably related to throwing an embolus from that AF.

Yeah. They suggested mums stroke could have been 'caused' by eddy
currents from her faulty heart valve (and op that has now been put on hold).

>
> Sudden 'unexpected' death is a good way to go.

'When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in
his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his bus ...' ;-)

Someone jumped off a road bridge to kill herself and just smashed up
both ankles. ;-(

>  We should all be so lucky.
>

Yup. Dad 'survived' PC and was living with diabetes and COPD and died
suddenly one even half way though his pudding. He would have hated all
the hospital stuff and a prolonged ending.

I heard on the radio earlier someone saying they lost two people and one
dog recently and because the dog was euthanised, they had the best
death. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[Mike Easter]

T i m wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>> His next bigger problem was multiple myeloma which required a lot of
>> chemo, but that didn't kill him either.
>
> Chemo is a pretty brutal 'cure' and something I think we will look back
> on as being barbaric.
>>

Some cancers are so much more 'exquisitely' sensitive to the or a
particular chemo agent that the 'poison' treatment doesn't need to do
much harm to the rest of the body; gestational trophoblastic disease is
an example, which has an excellent prognosis.

Your 'average' run-of-the-mill regular biologic pregnancy-related
trophoblast is a very invasive cell, so a 'whacky' bunch which are
'neoplastic' don't have to go very far astray in their behavior to attack.

Not all chemo is as bad as it is made out to be by some. Part of the
problem w/ chemo is the 'mindset' of the oncologist. Some onco/s are so
wrapped up in trying to kill cancer cells that they have no regard for
the quality of life of their subject. The other problem there is that
like all drugs, there is a spectrum of dose/response that is widely
variable, so an onco may give a dose w/ a reputation of not being too
toxic or 'killing' or maiming of host cells but ends up making life
miserable for the patient and still not doing very well against the bad
cells.

Pharmacology is like that all over the place whether is is something
trivial or severe.

>
> I heard on the radio earlier someone saying they lost two people and one
> dog recently and because the dog was euthanised, they had the best
> death. ;-(
>

Absolutely; I believe that people should have as much say in how they
themselves die as they have to say about how their beloved pets do.

--
Mike Easter

[T i m]

On 19/02/2024 00:29, Mike Easter wrote:

<snip>

> Absolutely; I believe that people should have as much say in how they
> themselves die as they have to say about how their beloved pets do.
>

Not long after the stroke Mum was talking to another victim in the
hospital and said she was going to take herself to Switzerland ..

The other lady said 'Oooh, that will be nice ...' (bless) ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Snit]

On Feb 18, 2024 at 11:37:17 AM MST, "David B." wrote
<l3f12t...@mid.individual.net>:

Whoops.

Seeing the reference to the police, etc., I thought it was Carroll's common
projecting. I was multitasking and should have been more careful. Thanks for
catching my error.

[Mike Easter]

T i m wrote:
>>
> Not long after the stroke Mum was talking to another victim in the
> hospital and said she was going to take herself to Switzerland ..
>
> The other lady said 'Oooh, that will be nice ...' (bless) ;-)
>

A big problem w/ either euthanasia or 'right to die', 'death w/ dignity'
and such philosophies is that so many people, and society, and belief
systems and such are so 'dead set' against those notions; that those who
'wish to die' and are responsible adults in their 'right mind' aren't
felt to have that 'right' by society, most laws, most religions, and
almost all of their friends and relatives; so they are 'swimming
upstream' against the feelings of almost everyone but themselves.

Not everyone who wants to die has to be depressed, or be in some kind of
terrible pain or medical condition/limitations; and many who would 'like
to die' may have lost the capacity because of their own condition and
limitations to take their own life in any kind of acceptable (and
reliable) manner.

Killing a human being or one's self acceptably is not as 'easy' or
reliable as 'it should be' -- witness how poorly most sanctioned
executions have been applied; ghastly hangings which didn't work or
pulled the head off the condemned, botched lethal injections, a few
inept firing squads. The guillotine has an excellent percentage record
and a very thorough and extensive track record during one part of
history, but it isn't practical or very acceptable as a dignified death.

The whole 'overdose' death business is VERY unreliable and can result in
a terrible non-death result. The 'societies' which believe in right to
die are pretty good about providing helpful information to their
'students' about the problems and limitations of various methods.

--
Mike Easter

[%]

the dead person won't care that they are dead after they are

[Mike Easter]

% wrote:
> the dead person won't care that they are dead after they are

But almost everyone who would like to die concerns themselves about
hurting others because they did (what they did).

--
Mike Easter

[Snit]

On Feb 18, 2024 at 7:42:31 PM MST, "%" wrote
<lk2dnU_Iz8SKXU_4...@giganews.com>:

Have you asked any?

[T i m]

On 19/02/2024 02:16, Mike Easter wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>>>
>> Not long after the stroke Mum was talking to another victim in the
>> hospital and said she was going to take herself to Switzerland ..
>>
>> The other lady said 'Oooh, that will be nice ...' (bless) ;-)
>>
> A big problem w/ either euthanasia or 'right to die', 'death w/ dignity'
> and such philosophies is that so many people, and society, and belief
> systems and such are so 'dead set' against those notions; that those who
> 'wish to die' and are responsible adults in their 'right mind' aren't
> felt to have that 'right' by society, most laws, most religions, and
> almost all of their friends and relatives; so they are 'swimming
> upstream' against the feelings of almost everyone but themselves.

Yup. An elderly 'Aunty' had a potentially curable cancer (chemo) but:

She had lost her husband a few years earlier and was on her own.

She lived a way from any public transport.

She lived a way from any shops or social hubs.

Had lost a son and her daughter was all grown up and didn't 'need' her.

etc etc.

So she decided to not take the treatment and I think everyone but us
(the wife, daughter and I) was trying to persuade her to take the therapy.

We 'understood / accepted' that she had 'had enough' and just wanted to
be gone (and ideally painlessly and quickly).

>
> Not everyone who wants to die has to be depressed, or be in some kind of
> terrible pain or medical condition/limitations; and many who would 'like
> to die' may have lost the capacity because of their own condition and
> limitations to take their own life in any kind of acceptable (and
> reliable) manner.

Yup.

>
> Killing a human being or one's self acceptably is not as 'easy' or
> reliable as 'it should be'

True but it can be if you are inventive enough. ;-)

> -- witness how poorly most sanctioned
> executions have been applied; ghastly hangings which didn't work or
> pulled the head off the condemned, botched lethal injections, a few
> inept firing squads.  The guillotine has an excellent percentage record
> and a very thorough and extensive track record during one part of
> history, but it isn't practical or very acceptable as a dignified death.

True.

>
> The whole 'overdose' death business is VERY unreliable and can result in
> a terrible non-death result.  The 'societies' which believe in right to
> die are pretty good about providing helpful information to their
> 'students' about the problems and limitations of various methods.
>

And I'm sure many good doctors DO turn the meds up when it's pretty
obvious to all that that is going to be the kindest and most humane
thing to do.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

My friends friend (of many years) who was healthy and happy as far as
most could tell, hung himself ... and what hurt my mate most was that
there was no note left explaining why.

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Wilkinson]

On Friday 16 February 2024 at 18:31:03 UTC, T i m wrote:
> On 15/02/2024 21:15, Mike Easter wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > That is, my 'position' or skill w/ remembering people's names is very
> > poor; always has been, since my youth.
> Same here.
> > Maybe that is why I practice
> > remembering act-or/-resses names when I'm watching (usually old) movies.
> I'm not really interested in them ('Luvvies') so that would be a waste
> of time but I seemed able to remember a fair spattering of Care
> Assistants or Registered Nurses names though my and my Mums recent dealings.
>
> What helps there is them having a reasonably sized and clear name badge
> on display at some point in our contact, one big enough so that you can
> read at a glance and if they are female, that it doesn't look you are
> staring at their chest. ;-)

and if it says Pat you have a good excuse ;-D

>
> The badges worn by staff at Mums care home are more typical of some sort
> of business gathering, compared with the NHS stoke hospital where they
> were generally 'Firstname' in big and their role (Care Assistant',
> 'Physiotherapist', 'Administration') smaller underneath.
>
> When IT training I would typically see a new batch of 8 delegates every
> week and without the name cards on their desks, there was little chance
> of me remembering all their names, especially the less familiar ones.
>
> Cheers, T i m

[Dave Wilkinson]

On Saturday 17 February 2024 at 22:47:13 UTC, David B. wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2024 at 22:14:09 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 17/02/2024 21:25, David B. wrote:
> >> On 17 Feb 2024 at 21:06:42 GMT, "T i m" <ete...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 17/02/2024 14:34, David B. wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>> Got it - thank you. Would you, please, help with my confusion?
> >>>>
> >>>> What is "NHS - Stoke rehab"?
> >>>
> >>> You live in England and are a native English speaker yes?
> >>>
> >>> You know who the N.H.S are right?
> >>>
> >>> You know what a stroke is right?
> >>
> >> Yes of course. But YOU called it STOKE hospital.
> >
> > <sigh> I didn't, I called it 'Stoke rehab' and you still couldn't fix
> > that typo with the current context of my Mum having a stroke?
> Have it your way. You appear to have deliberately misled me.

I worked it out, although it could be where all the broken pottery ends up .
Well stoke -on-trent is a famous for it's pottery.

> >>> You know the range of consequences of suffering a stroke might be and so
> >>> what 'rehab' might be in that context?
> >>>
> >>> Have you been drinking ... ?
> >>
> >> I stopped drinking nearly six years ago.
> >
> > Yeah, you say that but you believe in some magic book so all truth bets
> > are off!
> Because of that, I tell you the truth.

It sounds like your version of the truth as seen by you.

> >>> Maybe and hopefully in time ... however, I've got enough on my own plate
> >>> right now ...
> >>
> >> Have you had your own diagnosis now?
> >
> > Yes, last Feb?
> Are you going to say what ails you?

> Is it something serious or a simple cancer?

Cancer simple ? , wonder why God made it.

> >>>>> When asked, Mum requested she went into a nursing home.
> >>>>
> >>>> It can be VERY expensive.
> >>>
> >>> It can indeed, however, she can't take it with her ...
> >>
> >> Indeed. There are no pockets in shrouds.
> >
> > Especially after she's been though the cremulator. ;-(
> I used to use the phrase with my clients when encouraging them to spend and/or
> give away some of their wealth.

Makes you wonder why money is needed considering some believe it is the root of all evil.

[T i m]

On 19/02/2024 13:17, Dave Wilkinson wrote:

<snip>

> Makes you wonder why money is needed

https://ibb.co/N7TgVf9

considering some believe it is the root of all evil.
>

It is for the dairy cows.

Cheers, T i m

[FromTheRafters]

Dave Wilkinson expressed precisely :

There's a famous misquote to that effect.

[FromTheRafters]

Dave Wilkinson brought next idea :

Frequenting hospitals, I notice the collections of badges and passes
worn by the nurses. They might as well be wearing rolodexes on their
chests. It's a good thing that they say their name as you meet them or
I would have called my attendant Pat Hology or something.

[Mike Easter]

T i m wrote:
> My friends friend (of many years) who was healthy and happy as far as
> most could tell, hung himself ... and what hurt my mate most was that
> there was no note left explaining why.

Likely because 'it would take too many words and even then you wouldn't
understand (and agree) anyway'.

I was discussing this subject w/ a friend and his wife. He agrees w/
me, but his wife does not, *no matter what* (and she isn't particularly
religious).

So, that would be a problem if a situation arose, which of course is
highly likely to happen. For most people, they are in 'dire straits'
when they decide they'd rather be dead than alive, and then they need
help or approval.

--
Mike Easter

[Dave Wilkinson]

Someone I knew commited suicide he was a drummer in a band, had a job, wife and young child.
One of his jokes just before he died was wouldn't it be funny to kill yourself on world suicide prevention day,
he said this after a gig. And that's what he did a few weeks later.

>
> --
> Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Dave Wilkinson wrote:
> Someone I knew commited suicide he was a drummer in a band, had a
> job, wife and young child. One of his jokes just before he died was
> wouldn't it be funny to kill yourself on world suicide prevention
> day, he said this after a gig. And that's what he did a few weeks
> later.

It is a big problem about the business of not wanting to live any longer
when there are other people who will be significantly hurt no matter how
any notes you leave or how you try to explain yourself or 'rationalize'
the hurt you cause them.

Presumably he 'didn't want to be responsible' for those people and their
happiness (or unhappiness)' -- any longer.

'It was a tragic mistake for me to find myself in this situation and
responsibility.'


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Dave Wilkinson wrote:
> world suicide prevention day

About suicide prevention; since I'm 'pro' suicide.

Those efforts should mostly be aimed at teens, who are 'always'
committing suicide for the 'silliest' (but not to them) reasons because
of their immaturity and lack of mature judgment.

I am strongly against teen suicide, and there is a lot of it.

> Suicide rates in youths have nearly tripled between the 1960s and
> 1980s.[2] For example, in Australia suicide is second only to motor
> vehicle accidents as its leading cause of death for people aged 15 to
> 25.[3]
>
> In the U.S., according to the National Institute of Mental Health,
> the suicide rate is the 2nd leading cause of death for adolescents
> between the ages of 10 and 14, and the third leading cause of death
> for those between 15 and 19.[4] In 2021, the American Academy of
> Pediatrics, the American Academy of ChiId and Adolescent Psychiatry,
> and the Children's Hospital Association released a joint statement
> announcing a mental health crisis among our youth.[5] Emergency room
> visits for mental health issues have dramatically increased,
> especially after the COVID-19 pandemic.[



--
Mike Easter

[Dave Wilkinson]

On Monday 19 February 2024 at 16:37:05 UTC, Mike Easter wrote:
> Dave Wilkinson wrote:
> > world suicide prevention day
>
> About suicide prevention; since I'm 'pro' suicide.
>
> Those efforts should mostly be aimed at teens, who are 'always'
> committing suicide for the 'silliest' (but not to them) reasons because
> of their immaturity and lack of mature judgment.
>
> I am strongly against teen suicide, and there is a lot of it.

I'd be against most suicide but could understand it in certain bad circumstances.

He had friends family, but dark humour, but so can I.
The band name was The Infinite Three , thre are tracks on utube if yuor interest I quite likeld tham and saw them a few times and chatted
with them after gigs. I didn;t see any signs .

[Mike Easter]

Dave Wilkinson wrote:
> One of his jokes just before he died was wouldn't it be funny to kill
> yourself on world suicide prevention day, he said this after a gig.
> And that's what he did a few weeks later.

- that isn't a funny/ humorous 'joke', so it falls flat for me
- if he was trying to 'telegraph' his move, he didn't do a good job
there either
- I don't know anything about the person; maybe he was an all-around
loser; that's a sad lot in life


--
Mike Easter

[%]

yes , lots , including myself

[%]

just imagine all the notes you would have to write

[%]

was it you that made it

[Snit]

On Feb 19, 2024 at 1:13:25 PM MST, "%" wrote
<LsOdnXX9z_X6K074...@giganews.com>:

What were the replies?

[T i m]

On 19/02/2024 15:40, Mike Easter wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>> My friends friend (of many years) who was healthy and happy as far as
>> most could tell, hung himself ... and what hurt my mate most was that
>> there was no note left explaining why.
>
> Likely because 'it would take too many words and even then you wouldn't
> understand (and agree) anyway'.

You are probably right.

>
> I was discussing this subject w/ a friend and his wife.  He agrees w/
> me, but his wife does not, *no matter what* (and she isn't particularly
> religious).

I think Esther Rantzen's plight / pathway / story will open this all up
further (hopefully).

>
> So, that would be a problem if a situation arose, which of course is
> highly likely to happen.  For most people, they are in 'dire straits'
> when they decide they'd rather be dead than alive, and then they need
> help or approval.
>

I think the other things that throws people is that you often hear them
say ... 'I saw them yesterday and they seemed fine ...'. I think that's
key here, those who are really in dire straights show it and so it is
more likely to be noticed.

Cheers, T i m