Re: real topic, how much to charge
Deodiaus
of how much it would cost.
Secondly, did you guys agree to do the work without assessing the
situation, or were there other factors involved.
Often, business make several attempts before narrowing down the range.
I offered to look at the problem and assess the situation before
agreeing to anything.
I had spent about 8 hours investigating the details.
Also, there was some considerable scope creep in what she wanted and
what she really needed, and what she was looking for.
Some of these issues did not come out during the initial discussion.
I came up with an estimate after listening to her offers and
considering the matter at hand.
To a certain extent, the thing that bothers me is if I should work on
the project at an initial loss in order to gain goodwill?
However, this is a buyers market. Also, this person is small
potatoes, so I really doubt that there is going to be a payoff in the
end. I don't want her business. The question is, is this an entry
into the game of business, rather than professional SWE development?
BTW, is there any place on the internet which keeps track of estimates
on project costs (and returns)?
Sort of like a http://www.realrates.com history of previous sales and
costs, but for systems?
I guess the devil is in the details. It really depends on the written
and unwritten specs, which are often not well documented except for
big military projects like
the St. York Anti-aircraft Guns .
Even with those, there are probably hidden costs as well as hidden
savings, as well as different accounting standards.
Sometimes, vendors intentionally underbid a project to land the
initial work, and make it back on subsequent support towards the end.
Even with big projects, e.g. MS Windows 3.1, it is hard to determine
where to start, DOS, or Win1.0
Jerry Stuckle
> Well, first, unlike your guys, I did not go out and make an estimate
> of how much it would cost.
Why not?
> Secondly, did you guys agree to do the work without assessing the
> situation, or were there other factors involved.
I always want to know the basics of what I'm getting into. But if I
can't get enough information to make a good estimate of the amount of
work involved, it is at my hourly rate.
> Often, business make several attempts before narrowing down the range.
> I offered to look at the problem and assess the situation before
> agreeing to anything.
I ALWAYS do.
> I had spent about 8 hours investigating the details.
Without knowing anything about the project, I would have no way of
knowing whether this is too little, too much or just right.
I can usually come up with a (very) rough estimate as to what something
will cost pretty quickly. But the customer knows this is very rough,
and could change significantly if what they've told me is not "the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" - especially the
"whole truth" part.
Now most customers don't know what they want, so a good estimate this
early is not possible. But it gives us a starting point. You'd be
surprised how many people expect a web site, shopping cart and a bunch
of other things for $250. But the estimate gives us a starting point to
see if we can have a working relationship.
> Also, there was some considerable scope creep in what she wanted and
> what she really needed, and what she was looking for.
Once we agree on what needs to be done, EVERYTHING goes into a design
document (which becomes an attachment to the contract). Scope creep
happens - but any changes to the original design is in addition to the
contracted amount.
> Some of these issues did not come out during the initial discussion.
> I came up with an estimate after listening to her offers and
> considering the matter at hand.
Why not? Did the customer not tell you something? Did you not know the
right questions to ask? These things happen all the time - but that's
why my design document is so detailed. Many times new information comes
out when discussing the document.
> To a certain extent, the thing that bothers me is if I should work on
> the project at an initial loss in order to gain goodwill?
> However, this is a buyers market. Also, this person is small
> potatoes, so I really doubt that there is going to be a payoff in the
> end. I don't want her business. The question is, is this an entry
> into the game of business, rather than professional SWE development?
>
That's up to you - unless you have a contract (written or verbal), in
which case you need to complete your part of the agreement.
As to whether it is an entry or not - too many unknowns to say.
Occasionally, this works great and you get tons of referrals. Sometimes
it goes bad and the client tells everyone what an idiot (or worse) you
are - and it costs you business. Most fall somewhere in between -
neither good nor bad for your business.
> BTW, is there any place on the internet which keeps track of estimates
> on project costs (and returns)?
Impossible to do. Projects vary too widely for something like this to
be of use. And I will not identify how much I charged for any specific
project.
> Sort of like a http://www.realrates.com history of previous sales and
> costs, but for systems?
Systems are much different than hourly rates.
> I guess the devil is in the details. It really depends on the written
> and unwritten specs, which are often not well documented except for
> big military projects like
> the St. York Anti-aircraft Guns .
> Even with those, there are probably hidden costs as well as hidden
> savings, as well as different accounting standards.
> Sometimes, vendors intentionally underbid a project to land the
> initial work, and make it back on subsequent support towards the end.
> Even with big projects, e.g. MS Windows 3.1, it is hard to determine
> where to start, DOS, or Win1.0
>
I have no unwritten specs. Everything is well documented.
--
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Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstu...@attglobal.net
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