New Palm Device - Future of Palms Design Team
Abrigon Gusiq
a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
So far got, address book needs to be more flexible. Agreed on that. Also
some way to search for duplicates, so I can delete them, and save me
space.
Also easier way to replace batteries, to do it on the fly, as well as
if you upgrade. Or is palms basically being designed to be use until
the battery finally dies and then throw away and get another? cost needs
to come way down for this.
What other programs needs to be changed, upgraded, replaced. OS, and the
connection between your palmtop and other devices (main unit and
others), okay so far or just a pain?
Main Chip upgrade, easier or harder?
My personnel preferences:
Be able to connect my palm device to my home computer, USB/Firewire or
IR, do a drop and click, and move files from one to another (copy is
better). Having a fun time with multiple copies of the same file due to
palm and computer not being able to tell which is older, and newer. So I
have like 3 copies of the same file.
IR/WiFi, cool..
Able to replace parts easier.. I know not many would go for this, cause
to many would tinker and break things. But why should I pay a tech $50
or more, to do something I can do on my own. Not like I don't build
computers for fun (parts put together).
Input/Output: Current small screens are just to small for much.. Some
form of holographic display would be nice, but might as well ask for a
neural jack. What is near term? Fold out screens? Expensive I expect.
What about glasses or like screen? Current tech (for special needs mind
you), allows for a person to look at a screen, the glasses track your
eyes and what you are looking at, and then all you need is a way to tell
te comp "that character is what I want to type".
MP3 Player for sure..
Cellphone is cool, would be nice to have one for my palmtop.
I think if handspring had made their palm a Cellphone, with palmtop
attachments, they would have sold more.. Cell phone seem to be the
lineage for the next generation of palmtop or like devices.. PDA sounds
to nerdish.
Mike
Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
> I know an old question, for some that is.
>
> If you were on the design team for a new palm or like device, what
> features would you want for it.
>
> Mike
Abrigon Gusiq
OS (Operating system) do they see at the future?
Windows CE (or like).
Palm OS
Linux OS
Amiga OS
What else?
What chip set do you see? ARM for all, or some other chip for it's CPU?
Mike
Guy Bannis
> Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team for
> a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
>
> So far got, address book needs to be more flexible. Agreed on that. Also
> some way to search for duplicates, so I can delete them, and save me
> space.
> Be able to connect my palm device to my home computer, USB/Firewire or
> IR, do a drop and click, and move files from one to another (copy is
> better). Having a fun time with multiple copies of the same file due to
> palm and computer not being able to tell which is older, and newer. So I
> have like 3 copies of the same file.
Some good ideas for third party developers.
> Able to replace parts easier.. I know not many would go for this, cause
> to many would tinker and break things. But why should I pay a tech $50
> or more, to do something I can do on my own. Not like I don't build
> computers for fun (parts put together).
You're probably in the minority here ...
> Input/Output: Current small screens are just to small for much.. Some
> form of holographic display would be nice, but might as well ask for a
> neural jack. What is near term? Fold out screens?
OLED screens.
> MP3 Player for sure..
Done.
> Cellphone is cool, would be nice to have one for my palmtop.
Done. Handspring has the PDA that's a cellphone but the new Treo 600 is
more equally a cellphone and PDA. Also look at Kyocera and Samsung.
Guy Bannis
> What is peoples idea of the future of the PALMtop and like devices, and what
> OS (Operating system) do they see at the future?
>
> Windows CE (or like).
> Palm OS
> Linux OS
> Amiga OS
A Palm device wouldn't be a Palm device if it didn't run an OS from PalmSource.
If you're asking what OS would appear in PDAs, then I'd say the top three
would continue for a while: Palm OS, PocketPC, and Symbian. Linux will
become more popular if IBM and Sharp can get their alliance going.
Spammay Blockay
Abrigon Gusiq <abr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team for
>a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
Several things:
1. Fully expandable database format for both contacts
and address book, where you can add N extra fields
to the basic ones, and fields have types, validators,
formatters, etc. like any good data-entry system.
But not SLOW like ThinkDB (now Smartlist To Go).
2. Higher res screens with zooming, lots of fonts, etc.
so you could see a lot or a little info, as you liked.
3. No limit on numbers of categories, or number of
categories an item may belong to.
4. 2 Words: File System
- Tim
--
Spammay Blockay
Yeah, I'd buy a Zaurus if there were a lot more software
for it, and if items from each package linked well with
each other.
- Tim
--
Thierry Morissette
batteries.
It can be done: I had a calculator like that, the HP 41.
"Spammay Blockay" <SPAMB...@BLOCKEDTOAVOIDSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:bgebuo$e23$1...@bolt.sonic.net...
RaBi
news:3F2AA389...@yahoo.com...
> Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team for
> a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
My wishlist:
PalmOS based :o)
Excellent form factor (like Palm V)
HiRes screen 480x320 or better with excellent brightness
Bluetooth with many supported profiles / IR / optional WiFi
Absolutely no sliding / moving / folding / rotating gimicks or keyboard
Metal case (like Palm V)
Full size screen (no hardware buttons on the top side but instead moved to
the sides as on most phones)
some sort of expansion slot (preferrably SD)
32+ MB
MP3
Modular battery packs
No camera
Simple & slim screen cover (like the small leather cover for Palm V)
As you may notice I'm still in love with my good old Palm V. Although I like
the Zire71 screen & memory
#rb
Abrigon Gusiq
What does everyone see as near term wants, versus far term wants.
OLED? Define?
What OS so far.. Linux would be good, but would you need to have a Linux
main unit as well?
Mike
Abrigon Gusiq
succeed as well.
Mike
Abrigon Gusiq
What about attachments and like? What would you like to have as an
attachment on the palmtop.
Been watching things over on a military operational palm/tablet discussion
group, and they are looking for ideas on how to use a palm in a medical or
other situation.. Things like being able to upload manuals, patient records
and more, as well as sensors and more.
Mike
Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
--
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Alan Hoyle
> "Abrigon Gusiq" <abr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3F2AA389...@yahoo.com...
>> Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team for
>> a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
>
> My wishlist:
> PalmOS based :o)
> Excellent form factor (like Palm V)
> HiRes screen 480x320 or better with excellent brightness
> Bluetooth with many supported profiles / IR / optional WiFi
> Absolutely no sliding / moving / folding / rotating gimicks or keyboard
> Metal case (like Palm V)
> Full size screen (no hardware buttons on the top side but instead moved to
> the sides as on most phones)
Get rid of this one and you've got a winner. I use the hardware
buttons too much (gaming, scrolling, etc.) to move them to the
sides....
> some sort of expansion slot (preferrably SD)
> 32+ MB
> MP3
> Modular battery packs
> No camera
> Simple & slim screen cover (like the small leather cover for Palm V)
>
> As you may notice I'm still in love with my good old Palm V. Although I like
> the Zire71 screen & memory
--
Alan Hoyle - al...@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
Paul Nevai
:> Excellent form factor (like Palm V)
BUT with a sticky surface!!! /PaulN
Guido Ostkamp
> Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team
> for a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
- 320x480 screen
- Full landscape support
- Virtual graffiti area
- Decuma input handwriting recognition
- Voice memo
- Real file system
- 64 MB RAM
- Large Flash-ROM
- 2 Compact Flash Slots
- Scroll wheel
- Exchangable rechargable LiIon-Polymer battery
- Extra high capacity rechargable LiIon-Polymer battery packs
- Models with absolutely no sliding / moving / folding / rotating
gimicks
- Other large models in clamshell landscape mode with excellent keyboard
- No camera
- Extra power inlet
- Included travel charger
- Enhanced software, e.g. Datebk, DocsToGo, etc. in ROM
- Support for WAVs as alarms
Regards,
Guido
Abrigon Gusiq
I like to use Netscape, but can't always get things to work, or have little
support for anything but Outlook (can't stand outlook for a variety of
reasons, let alone just security issues).
Mike
Spammay Blockay
There's a lot I forgot I wish I had in my Palm device,
and you just named just about all of them.
Why is it Palm and Sony haven't come out with models
like this? Do they think there's just no market for it?
Is it only a small corps of hard-core geeks like me that
want a solid, powerful, no-gimmicks, useful machine like this?
- Tim
In article <n5vqv-...@320076385420-0001.dialin.t-online.de>,
--
Stan Gosnell
> Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team for
> a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
>
> So far got, address book needs to be more flexible. Agreed on that. Also
> some way to search for duplicates, so I can delete them, and save me
> space.
Allow address book to be linked to photos. The Zire71 has a camera, it
would be nice if it were possible to put photos in the address book. Can't
count the number of times I've seen this request.
> Also easier way to replace batteries, to do it on the fly, as well as
> if you upgrade. Or is palms basically being designed to be use until
> the battery finally dies and then throw away and get another? cost needs
> to come way down for this.
It's not that hard.
> My personnel preferences:
>
> Be able to connect my palm device to my home computer, USB/Firewire or
> IR, do a drop and click, and move files from one to another (copy is
> better). Having a fun time with multiple copies of the same file due to
> palm and computer not being able to tell which is older, and newer. So I
> have like 3 copies of the same file.
Easy. Get a card reader, & do this from the card. That's how I do it now,
& it's much quicker & easier than it will ever be from the Palm.
> IR/WiFi, cool..
I don't care....
> Able to replace parts easier.. I know not many would go for this, cause
> to many would tinker and break things. But why should I pay a tech $50
> or more, to do something I can do on my own. Not like I don't build
> computers for fun (parts put together).
Ain't gonna happen. SMD soldering is difficult at best. The only way to
make parts replacement easier is to use a big board with point-to-point
soldering. Takes way, way too much room. Complete motherboards for
earlier models are available for ~$25, so why not just replace the entire
board, takes five minutes, easy, quick, why bother with individual parts?
> Input/Output: Current small screens are just to small for much..
Size. If it won't fit in my pocket, I'm not buying it. The new hi-
resolution screens are fine with me. Small enough to fit in my pocket, but
I can read it well enough. I'm happy with what exists.
> MP3 Player for sure..
Old news.
> Cellphone is cool, would be nice to have one for my palmtop.
Old news.
> I think if handspring had made their palm a Cellphone, with palmtop
> attachments, they would have sold more.. Cell phone seem to be the
> lineage for the next generation of palmtop or like devices.. PDA sounds
> to nerdish.
What cave have you been hiding in? Handspring is the cellphone division of
Palm. They offer cellphones with PDA's, Palm offers PDA's with wifi or
cabability to connect with cellphones. Take your choice.
--
Regards,
Stan
Stan Gosnell
news:0CyWa.809$Ji1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com:
> I'd like the CHOICE of using a rechargeable battery pack or regular
> alkaline batteries.
It already exists. Rechargers using alkalines are readily available.
Connect it, & you have a rechargeable and alkaline both. Why limit it to
just alkalines? The worst concept ever invented - just look at the
problems with the M1xx series - every one sold will eventually lose all
data when the batteries are changed. Buy a portable charger for very
little money & you can use alkalines all you want.
--
Regards,
Stan
Stan Gosnell
> How about a stereo jack, so you can listen to music, your notes and
> more? What about attachments and like? What would you like to have as
> an attachment on the palmtop.
Done. The Zire71 has a stereo jack, and mp3 capability. That ain't going
away. Lots of SDIO stuff is on the way.
--
Regards,
Stan
Stan Gosnell
Now we agree. Outlook will never ever reside on any device I own.
--
Regards,
Stan
Charles Hawtrey
wrote:
>Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team for
>a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
My wish is for what might be called a high-end barebones PDA, if you
can imagine such a thing. That is, a really really good PDA but with
no frills/gimmicks like cameras, MP3 players, Wi-Fi, voice recorders,
diaper steamers, etc.
Something like this:
FAST FAST FAST processor! When I launch a program or enter a command
the thing should respond instantly.
Really good hi-res color screen (320x320 or better)
32+ MB memory
SD and/or CF expandable
Durable (can survive real-world jostling in a pocket or briefcase,
maybe occasional wetness)
Pocketable (not too large or heavy)
User-replaceable batteries (nice but not essential)
IR (I assume this goes without saying)
One more thing: not yet another connector incompatible with my
accessories!
This probably isn't "sexy" enough to attract the attention of
developers, but hey, you asked.
--
Fight the power: http://www.boycott-riaa.com/
Abrigon Gusiq
Re: [memplug] Palmtop OS and other handheld
systems
Date:
Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
From:
MrGadget <data...@yahoo.com>
To:
abr...@yahoo.com
1-AUG-03
Hello,
There are a variety of handheld OS/operating systems and
each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Check them
out:
1. Pocket PC (souped up Windows CE)
2. Palm OS
3. Modified Palm OS for Sony systems
4. Symbian (primarily on Psion systems but also licensed to other
systems, mainly European and some asian)
5. Propietary
6. Newton and related OS, and their modifications through the years
7. TI/Texas Instruments-based chip systems
8. ARM/Motorola and IBM-base chips
9. NEC-based chip systems (V-chip not to be confused with the
chip that protects children). NEC's handheld chips are coded
"V" and are as powerful as Motorola's and Intel
10. New Intel chips for handheld systems
11. Windows based handhelds (which also show up on some
Sprint PCS-based cellphones. Microsoft is indeed invading
everywhere. In fact, check out Microsoft's Smart House, which
features ubiquitous technology from handheld devices to
intelligent systems and "smart systems" in slates.)
12. Check out HP's CoolTown (a real town) and some of their
concepts on handheld systems
13. Browse Flashcommerce.com: www.flashcommerce.com
More later,
Allen
Abrigon Gusiq
Mike
Abrigon Gusiq
is to expensive? Or that they know, but want to milk the market as much as
possible?
Mike
Abrigon Gusiq
connections, and a case. So that you have 12 connections, and as you need
things, change things and like, you can then open the openable case, and
then plug in what you want, and so on.
Or better yet, would be a totally programmable mother chip, flashware or
like? But with connection. So all you need do is open the case, slide in a
new attachment and go for it.. The current for my handspring of the top
connection is limited.. Or maybe some way to connect in a hard jack so that
things like external printers and like. External as in self-powered,
connected via Wifi or IR?
Or maybe just go for one connector, that allows for wifi? Any wifi, things?
Mike
Charles Hawtrey wrote:
--
Arthur Hagen
"Charles Hawtrey" <chaw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f2af51a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> My wish is for what might be called a high-end barebones PDA, if you
> can imagine such a thing. That is, a really really good PDA but with
> no frills/gimmicks like cameras, MP3 players, Wi-Fi, voice recorders,
> diaper steamers, etc.
>
> Something like this:
>
> FAST FAST FAST processor! When I launch a program or enter a command
> the thing should respond instantly.
The design of the program has MUCH more impact on the responsiveness than
the speed of the CPU. Most Amiga programs had instant response to user
input, and that was with a 7.14MHz CPU -- less than half the speed of the
slowest Palm today.
The slow response is caused by bloated and abstracted software, with dozens
of orders of inheritance, when a small procedural statement would have done
the job MUCH faster. If you think it's bad for Palm programs, take a look
at the PocketPCs -- twice the CPU speed and a tenth of the GUI
responsiveness, due to bloat and programmers who depend on Moore's law more
than skills.
Regards,
--
*Art
Guy Bannis
> > Why is it Palm and Sony haven't come out with models
> > like this? Do they think there's just no market for it?
> > Is it only a small corps of hard-core geeks like me that
> > want a solid, powerful, no-gimmicks, useful machine like this?
> >
> > - Tim
You want a Pentium 4 in a chassis that housed the x286. What's the point?
Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr.
Abrigon Gusiq <abr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team
>for a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
Ultra thin (maybe even thinner than a Palm V) but with reasonable
battery life. Something like the guts of a Treo 600 without the
cell phone radios might be able to fit in a case this slim.
Super lightweight multitasking OS and GUI which requires minimal
battery-sucking CPU cycles for typical PIM usage, but with open
API's for developers (e.g. PalmOS).
Low power RISC CPU with single-cycle multiply, developer accessable
DSP, or even an FPU (with power-down capability of course).
Some sort of low power miniature heads-up projection display. So I
could get a full size XVGA display image projected on my glasses or
sunglasses, but still have it fold up to fit in my pocket when not
in use.
Better quality microphone.
IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.
Evil Homer
do with a hard drive in it? I realize battery power would go down, but with
today's new battery technology, and the smal drives, would it work?? Sure
would make for some interesting programs.
<Ronald H. Nicholson>; "Jr." <r...@nojunk.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:bgfg33$kjn$1...@blue.rahul.net...
Dale DePriest
Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
Older ideas attempted to replace the computer on your desk. The Palm
was the first PDA that recognized that the PDA should supplement the
desktop unit and not try and replace it. Even today some guys are still
trying to replace the desktop and maybe someday that will be a reality.
Meanwhile the palm has the best paradigm. Everything hotsyncs back to
the pc and with an emulator you can actually use the data on the pc as
well. No one else has this done correctly even today.
Dale
--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs
Dale DePriest
Evil Homer wrote:
> I wonder, with small hard drives such as those in an Ipod, how would a Palm
> do with a hard drive in it? I realize battery power would go down, but with
> today's new battery technology, and the smal drives, would it work?? Sure
> would make for some interesting programs.
IBM already makes a harddrive that fits in a CF slot and is usable on
many PDA's that have CF slots in them.
Guido Ostkamp
<SPAMB...@blockedtoavoidspam.com> wrote:
>
> Why is it Palm and Sony haven't come out with models like this? Do
> they think there's just no market for it? Is it only a small corps
> of hard-core geeks like me that want a solid, powerful, no-gimmicks,
> useful machine like this?
I have no idea. You can find nearly all of the things in some device,
but not one device which integrates them all.
In many reviews dealing with Sony models the demand for an easy metal
case 320x480 device with virtual graffiti is mentioned, but they are
not listening.
It seems they want to force people to buy expensive gimmicks only to
get the large screen.
Regards,
Guido
Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr.
Abrigon Gusiq <abr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>What is the difference between a PDA and the older ideas that did not
>succeed as well.
Some previous devices, such as the Momenta, Zoomer, OmniGo, MagicCap,
Newton MessagePad, etc. were bigger or more expensive, had too short a
battery life, or were too slow to use for basic PIM operation. Other
smaller devices didn't have reasonable enough data entry capability,
easy PC connectivity, or a large application library.
Palm succeeded with devices from around $400 to below $100 in price,
shirt pocket sized, which could go over a week (with typical usage of
30 minutes to 2 hours per day depending on model) between battery
changes or recharges, which were one-button press away from ones
calendar or phone list or data download from ones PC, and with an open
API and cheap developer tools which helped create a huge application
library and lots of games.
Guy Bannis
<r...@nojunk.rahul.net> wrote:
> In article <3F2AC1F2...@yahoo.com>,
> Abrigon Gusiq <abr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >What is the difference between a PDA and the older ideas that did not
> >succeed as well.
>
> Some previous devices, such as the Momenta, Zoomer, OmniGo, MagicCap,
> Newton MessagePad, etc. were bigger or more expensive, had too short a
> battery life, or were too slow to use for basic PIM operation. Other
> smaller devices didn't have reasonable enough data entry capability,
> easy PC connectivity, or a large application library.
True to an extent. But the main factor might simply be timing.
> Palm succeeded with devices from around $400 to below $100 in price,
> shirt pocket sized, which could go over a week (with typical usage of
> 30 minutes to 2 hours per day depending on model) between battery
> changes or recharges, which were one-button press away from ones
> calendar or phone list or data download from ones PC, and with an open
> API and cheap developer tools which helped create a huge application
> library and lots of games.
True but PPC devices have cost a lot more, had awful battery life, and
were anything but easy to use and maintain. I add "maintain" because I
find troubleshooting, or simply installing an application, more difficult
than it should be on a PPC-device.
Gawnsoft
wrote (more or less):
>Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
>
>> What is the difference between a PDA and the older ideas that did not
>> succeed as well.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
>Older ideas attempted to replace the computer on your desk. The Palm
>was the first PDA that recognized that the PDA should supplement the
>desktop unit and not try and replace it.
Psions predate Palms, and their desktop synching software predates
Palms too.
The first Psion PDA's were out in the early 80's and with the 2-line
displays they had back then they did /not/ try and replace desktops.
> Even today some guys are still
>trying to replace the desktop and maybe someday that will be a reality.
>Meanwhile the palm has the best paradigm. Everything hotsyncs back to
>the pc and with an emulator you can actually use the data on the pc as
>well. No one else has this done correctly even today.
Emm, except that Epoc does this, even today, and the emulator has been
freely available since the Psion 5 came out, which was contemporaneous
with the original USR Palm Pilot.
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
Gawnsoft
wrote (more or less):
>Evil Homer wrote:
>
>> I wonder, with small hard drives such as those in an Ipod, how would a Palm
>> do with a hard drive in it? I realize battery power would go down, but with
>> today's new battery technology, and the smal drives, would it work?? Sure
>> would make for some interesting programs.
>
>IBM already makes a harddrive that fits in a CF slot and is usable on
>many PDA's that have CF slots in them.
The problem found with the had-drives is that they're /slower/ than
solid-state memory, and now solid state CF cards are becoming
available in comparable sizes., so the capacity advantage is being
lost.
Spammay Blockay
Eh? Where'd you pull *that* surmise out of?
The current crop of XScale processors can do what I want. A scaled-down
Linux-like OS (ala the Zaurus) with a good set of reliable apps with a good
subset of desktop functionality, a bigger screen, and forget the mini-keyboard.
That's mostly what I'd like.
- Tim
--
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<abr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Same old question, but a year later. If you were on the design team for
>a new palm or like device, what features would you want for it.
Lots of features people ask for for Palm have long existed on
other PDAs, especially Psion, without being sufficient to ensure
their future commercial success. Most users don't need most
additions and features - Palm have sold because they are simple,
not because they are complex.
>So far got, address book needs to be more flexible.
Psion has a really flexible database that accepts all manner of
customisation, and has an underlying SQL style API. Most people
didn't use the extra features.
>Also easier way to replace batteries, to do it on the fly
Psion had replaceable batteries, except in the Revo model.
>Be able to connect my palm device to my home computer, USB/Firewire or
>IR, do a drop and click, and move files from one to another (copy is
>better).
PsiWin integrated the Psion into Windows Explorer, and you could
drag and drop whatever you liked between the two systems, with or
without automatic file conversions. You could even cut and paste
clipboard items. You could open an MS Word file on the PC, and
save it to the Psion as an Epoc Word file from within MS Word.
All sorts of tricks possible.
>Input/Output: Current small screens are just to small for much..
Psion had bigger screens. All the way up to 640x480 on some
models.
>MP3 Player for sure..
Third party software, even on a 34MHz ARM.
>Cellphone is cool, would be nice to have one for my palmtop.
Lots of the Psion software ended up in the Symbian based
Smartphones (think Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc.), as they basically
bet much of the company (back around 1996) that phones would be
the big market in the future.
--
Eric Lindsay http://www.ericlindsay.com/guff
Airlie Beach Qld Australia - Great Barrier Reef entry
Psion & Epoc site http://www.ericlindsay.com/epoc
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
SPAMB...@BLOCKEDTOAVOIDSPAM.com (Spammay Blockay) wrote:
> 1. Fully expandable database format for both contacts
> and address book, where you can add N extra fields
> to the basic ones, and fields have types, validators,
> formatters, etc. like any good data-entry system.
Built into Psion ROMs, at least if you didn't want more than
about 30 fields. Fields have types like text, number, floating
point, date, yes/no, and memo (unlimited length). As well, you
could incorporate objects (files run by other applications) such
as Epoc Word, Sketch, Spreadsheets, spreadsheet graphics, audio
files into any data record.
> 2. Higher res screens with zooming, lots of fonts, etc.
> so you could see a lot or a little info, as you liked.
Zooming built in to all standard Psion applications, with
dedicated Zoom buttons to change font sizes. You can (3rd party)
add converted Windows fonts if the existing ones are
insufficient.
> 3. No limit on numbers of categories, or number of
> categories an item may belong to.
Limited by number of fields you want to consume in Psion
> 4. 2 Words: File System
Full FAT file system was standard in Psion, whether using
internal memory or storage cards, with both a graphical
interface, and a more traditional file system interface. You
could read Psion CF cards direct from a PC (and vice versa). You
could read digital camera cards direct on the Psion. Very handy
indeed, to the point where I would not buy a PDA that didn't have
a decent file system that I could easily access.
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<th...@msn.com> wrote:
>I'd like the CHOICE of using a rechargeable battery pack or regular alkaline
>batteries.
>
>It can be done: I had a calculator like that, the HP 41.
The early HP100Lx and 200LX PDAs handled both with considerable
style. The Psion 5 takes standard alkalines, however it isn't as
good with rechargeables. Doesn't full charge them in place for
example, although you can fudge a trickle charge. I wouldn't buy
a PDA with a non-removeable battery (and several hours of backup
power when the main battery is removed).
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<gueltig-bis...@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
Hmm, Psion specifications noted, some from 1997 model, rest from
1999 model. I wish you guys would catch up, because it is hard
to find replacement Psions now.
>- 320x480 screen
640x240 and 640x480
>- Full landscape support
Yes
>- Virtual graffiti area
Anywhere on screen (with third party products)
>- Decuma input handwriting recognition
No
>- Voice memo
Standard (even has external controls like a tape recorder), and
voice memos can be used as objects in word processor, dtabase and
other applications.
>- Real file system
Standard FAT file system
>- 64 MB RAM
In NetBook, 32MB in Psion 7
>- Large Flash-ROM
No, except in NetBook
>- 2 Compact Flash Slots
In NetBook and Psion 7 (only 1 on Psion 5)
>- Scroll wheel
No
>- Exchangable rechargable LiIon-Polymer battery
In NetBook and Psion 7, others take AAs
>- Extra high capacity rechargable LiIon-Polymer battery packs
Is 12volts and 1500mA high enough?
>- Models with absolutely no sliding / moving / folding / rotating
> gimicks
Displays all slide and unfold.
>- Other large models in clamshell landscape mode with excellent keyboard
NetBook and Psion 7 have great keyboards.
>- No camera
None (but reads JPG photos on CF from cameras just fine).
>- Extra power inlet
One DC inlet, provision for powering via I/O connector also
>- Included travel charger
Standard
>- Enhanced software, e.g. Datebk, DocsToGo, etc. in ROM
Standard in ROM to have word processor, spelling checker,
thesaurus, crossword solver, anagram generator, spreadsheet with
graphics, sketch, voice recorder, calculators (scientific and
simple), address book for email fax phone, database with field
types, custom appearance, jotter for quick notes, email (also
does fax and SMS), phone dialler (also via speaker), alarms and
world map (any sound, with support for multiple cities, dial
codes, sunrise and sunset times, locations via Lat and Long
datebase), comms terminal with scripting, replaceable wallpaper,
screen capture utility, zoom screen contents, programming
language and editor, extensive PIM with 100 todo pages,
anniversaries, calendar, day, week, month and year views, all
with customisable layouts, web browser (not in ROM in 5), oh, and
a game (varies with model). All file based programs are
re-entrant, so you can have multiple files open and in use (until
memory gets short - I typically have 6-18 items open).
>- Support for WAVs as alarms
Convert WAVs via PsiWin. Any sound you can record or convert can
be used as an alarm (or within a document or spreadsheet or
database)
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<GLSNig...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Allow address book to be linked to photos.
Standard in Psion, thanks to embedding of objects. You want an
Epoc Word file with a spreadsheet, plus an embedded graph from a
spreadsheet, plus a photo, plus a voice note all within your data
file. Just stick objects in your records. Want an interactive
database that does conversions (for example), just put a
spreadsheet in each data record.
Gawnsoft
Lindsay's spam trap) wrote (more or less):
>On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 22:29:11 +0200, "Guido Ostkamp"
><gueltig-bis...@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>Hmm, Psion specifications noted, some from 1997 model, rest from
>1999 model. I wish you guys would catch up, because it is hard
>to find replacement Psions now.
>>- 320x480 screen
>640x240 and 640x480
>>- Full landscape support
>Yes
>>- Virtual graffiti area
>Anywhere on screen (with third party products)
>>- Decuma input handwriting recognition
>No
>>- Voice memo
>Standard (even has external controls like a tape recorder), and
>voice memos can be used as objects in word processor, dtabase and
>other applications.
>>- Real file system
>Standard FAT file system
>>- 64 MB RAM
>In NetBook, 32MB in Psion 7
>>- Large Flash-ROM
>No, except in NetBook
Mind you, the 5mx Pro keeps a ROM image in RAM - which is functionally
equivalent.
Cheers,
Gawnsoft
Lindsay's spam trap) wrote (more or less):
>On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 22:29:11 +0200, "Guido Ostkamp"
I use hicapacity AA-sized NiMH rechargables in my Psion 5
>>- Extra high capacity rechargable LiIon-Polymer battery packs
>Is 12volts and 1500mA high enough?
and they're rated by the manufacturer as 1500mAh per AA cell, or 3000
mAH per pair.
About $15 for a four-pack...
Cheers,
Traveller
to vibration and shock in a palmtop computer???? Nobody knocks or drops
their palmtop, right? Now, don't get me started on slowwwww harddrives as
compared to RAM or even CF.
Richard
"Evil Homer" <im...@home.com> wrote in message
news:1059809516.375904@news...
Guido Ostkamp
<spam...@ericlindsay.com> wrote:
> Hmm, Psion specifications noted, some from 1997 model, rest from
> 1999 model. I wish you guys would catch up, because it is hard to
> find replacement Psions now.
You are kicking at an open door ;-)
I am a Psion 3c user with a dying device (bought in '96, now with
broken hinges, beginning screen cable defect) desperately searching
for an adequate replacement :-(
Epoc is still lightyears ahead of any PalmOS, but as there are no
longer any new PDAs with it I prefer PalmOS over PocketPC. I hope
Sony's UX50 and Palm's T3 will arrive before my device finally dies -
otherwise I will have to get a T2 as a less-than-ideal solution.
Regards,
Guido
Gawnsoft
<gueltig-bis...@nurfuerspam.de> wrote (more or less):
New Psion 5mxs are available from Clove.co.uk at the mo', (£220) and
they're even selling 3's of some type.
POS are strongly rumoured to be about to put the 3mx back in
production.
Guido Ostkamp
<xlu...@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> wrote:
> New Psion 5mxs are available from Clove.co.uk at the mo', (£220) and
> they're even selling 3's of some type.
I am aware that there are still some devices around - also in this
country at <http://www.pulster.de> you can still get new Ericsson
MC218 for 299 EUR. However, I am not going to invest into abandoned
technology.
Regarding the 3c, 3mx: It had only 2 MB RAM and the 64k limit per
application; I definitely need much more.
Regards,
Guido
Guy Bannis
SPAMB...@BLOCKEDTOAVOIDSPAM.com (Spammay Blockay) wrote:
Was reacting to the general sentiment of putting the latest OS on basic
hardware. It's just unlikely to happen. Palm OS6 will show up on new Clies
first, and probably set new higher price points. That's because the OS is
capable of so much more. Even run-of-the-mill cell phones come with (bad)
cameras in them, yet there are some who complain about the camera on the
Zire 71.
BTW, I still think a "Palm device" has to be one that runs an OS from
PalmSource. That's my focus given the title of this thread ...
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<xlu...@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> wrote:
>>>- Large Flash-ROM
>>No, except in NetBook
>
>Mind you, the 5mx Pro keeps a ROM image in RAM - which is functionally
>equivalent.
True, but only the ROM image for the German language version was
ever easily available (on Psion CDs for instance). It was really
hard to locate copies compiled for English, for instance
(although Psion staff admitted they were compiled, for test
purposes before the ROMs were made).
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<xlu...@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> wrote:
>>>- Exchangable rechargable LiIon-Polymer battery
>>In NetBook and Psion 7, others take AAs
>
>I use hicapacity AA-sized NiMH rechargables in my Psion 5
I've always been concerned at the discharge curve. You get so
little warning from the voltage between good capacity and a
plunge by the voltage when you reach their capacity.
However the main complaint is that the Psion isn't designed to
allow the AAs to be recharged in situ. You normally need to
change to your alternate set of batteries, and recharge in an
external charger. I know you can modify a 5 to include a charge
circuit, but then you may run into problems if you use alkalines
and forget you have them in. It would have taken so little more
stuff to handle both smoothly, without compromise.
>>>- Extra high capacity rechargable LiIon-Polymer battery packs
>>Is 12volts and 1500mA high enough?
>
>and they're rated by the manufacturer as 1500mAh per AA cell, or 3000
>mAH per pair.
>
>About $15 for a four-pack...
The AAs are in series, just like the 3.6 volt Lithiums (CGR18650H
cells) in the NetBook are in series, so the 5 has about 4.5 watt
capacity, whereas the NetBook has at least 15 watt (which given
the size difference is not surprising). I personally think AAs
are really great for PDAs and cameras (if they can afford the
size), as capacity keeps increasing, and costs are relatively low
compared to the custom batteries.
As for custom batteries that can't even be removed! I believe
every buyer should consider rejecting any such design. They are
simply bad news.
Traveller
> Regarding the 3c, 3mx: It had only 2 MB RAM and the 64k limit per
> application; I definitely need much more.
>
software) is designed to run within these limits (64k process & 2M Ram).
Other than Pretty pictures and silly games, the Psion 3xx still does more
out of the Box than the latest Palm.
Richard
"Guido Ostkamp" <gueltig-bis...@nurfuerspam.de> wrote in message
news:j8b001...@320076385420-0001.dialin.t-online.de...
> In comp.sys.palmtops.pilot Gawnsoft
> <xlu...@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> wrote:
> > New Psion 5mxs are available from Clove.co.uk at the mo', (£220) and
> > they're even selling 3's of some type.
>
> I am aware that there are still some devices around - also in this
> country at <http://www.pulster.de> you can still get new Ericsson
> MC218 for 299 EUR. However, I am not going to invest into abandoned
> technology.
> Regards,
>
> Guido
Guido Ostkamp
>> Regarding the 3c, 3mx: It had only 2 MB RAM and the 64k limit per
>> application; I definitely need much more.
>>
> For what? The design of the Psion 3xx is such that everything
> (hardware & software) is designed to run within these limits (64k
> process & 2M Ram). Other than Pretty pictures and silly games, the
> Psion 3xx still does more out of the Box than the latest Palm.
I agree that it does more out of the Box with the exception of
bluetooth or WLAN.
However, the 64k limit didn't let me store more than a few pages of
text, I have spreadsheets which I could not expand due to lack of
capacity and I am struggling really hard to squeeze some bytes out by
stopping applications I would normally leave running for quickly
taskswitching, just because otherwise I cannot afford to store just
some small parts of an already compressed ebook.
No - sorry, but the 2 MB and 64k is not enough. Extra space on SSD was
always that much overpriced, that it was nearly impossible to buy.
In the next PDA I want city maps, dictionaries, voice memos and stuff,
and I want go for anything less than 16 MB, better 32 or 64 RAM, and
of course additional external storage media.
Regards,
Guido
Spammay Blockay
I get it, no problem. :-)
I guess I was thinking of a handheld in general; but I like
Palm the best of what's out there, mostly because they've attempted
to keep it simple. I think adding a filesystem and a few other
features that are needed in the process flow one uses Palms for,
in general (eg. unlimited fields and categories) would add tons
to the usability of a Palm device without turning it into something
it was never meant to be.
- Tim
--
Abrigon Gusiq
early days..
Mike
Arthur Hagen wrote:
> "Charles Hawtrey" <chaw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3f2af51a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>
> > My wish is for what might be called a high-end barebones PDA, if you
> > can imagine such a thing. That is, a really really good PDA but with
> > no frills/gimmicks like cameras, MP3 players, Wi-Fi, voice recorders,
> > diaper steamers, etc.
> >
> > Something like this:
> >
> > FAST FAST FAST processor! When I launch a program or enter a command
> > the thing should respond instantly.
>
> The design of the program has MUCH more impact on the responsiveness than
> the speed of the CPU. Most Amiga programs had instant response to user
> input, and that was with a 7.14MHz CPU -- less than half the speed of the
> slowest Palm today.
> The slow response is caused by bloated and abstracted software, with dozens
> of orders of inheritance, when a small procedural statement would have done
> the job MUCH faster. If you think it's bad for Palm programs, take a look
> at the PocketPCs -- twice the CPU speed and a tenth of the GUI
> responsiveness, due to bloat and programmers who depend on Moore's law more
> than skills.
>
> Regards,
> --
> *Art
Abrigon Gusiq
Instant response and not have to wait for anything.
Attachment or something, to allow for viewing via a monocule or glassess as
a screen.
Thin, or maybe cylider or like form? Like how some MP3 players are? Thin is
only needed if you have a normal traditional screen, but what if you remove
the screen totally? then you can have the cell phone? Wifi the screen to a
pair of glasses or like, or an attachment for glasses?
Multitasking would be nice.
More software, or ways to make my own software? Currently have Doc2Go, and
it is okay, but I need more than what it gives..
I need total control of content on my palmtop.
Miniture HD? Or maybe a miniture CDrom? Or why go with HD or like, why not
go for memory stick or like? Or portable USB memory device? But how to move
things from your palm to your desktop or like? WiFi or USB or what?
IBM, CF slot, cool.. Now have to remember what a CF slot is? I have a
Handspring Visor??
Address book, I need some way to find duplicates, and not just absolute
ones. I know it should be in my netscape address book, but what do I do on
the fly? Same with email. I got alot of duplicates. How about duplicate
files, so I can clean out all the duplicate files on my palm.
Agreed on batteries. To be able to have rechargeable, especially when you
can replace them your self. My old Prism, I could replace the battery, but I
had to open the case to do it, and that was no good.
Epoc, tell us more? Psion? Okay.. PC software and all.. Is it hardware or
software driven?
How do you change the OS if you wish?
How about a combo USB memory device, with a palmtop design. I am not excited
about my Prisms use of the propriatory cradle. Some form of standard is
needed, or just use the USB? Or what?
AAA or AA rechargable which is better? Or best to have a more camera style
battery, or go with what the Prism has in it, it appears to be what a Video
Camera has in it.
Memory upgrade? Replacable mother board and what else?
GPS attachment, and other attachments? I know I would love to be able to do
some basic emission tests on my car, or use my Palmtop to do some basic EMT
stuff, or use it in my possible job dealing with HAZMAT, basically to have a
spectrometer and like with my palmtop.
Mike
John Doe
> What OS so far.. Linux would be good, but would you need to have a Linux
> main unit as well?
Just because Linux CAN run on it, doesn't mean it should.
Linux on a PalmOS handheld would make a horrible platform for a lot of
reasons, and we end up going over this year after year here. Look at how
far the iPAQ and other Linux-based PDA devices (and I've used about 20 of
them) have NOT advanced in the last 2-3 years, despite the thousands of
people who are working on them..
You need a lot of things first, to make it work as well as a Palm
handheld. I wouldn't trade a 4-year-old Pilot 5000 for a brand-new
Linux-based iPAQ at all, because you lose an enormous amount of
flexibility and use. I run Linux on both of my iPAQ units and I have a
vTech Helio, and other Linux-based PDA units in my possession, so I'm not
saying that it can't be done. It can, but as a PDA, where instant access
to data is the most-important thing, no way, it just doesn't make sense.
Where is the SDK? (Don't say the Linux kernel sources, that's not an SDK)
Where are the standard development environments for a Linux-based PDA?
Qt? Gtk? Python? All three?
Where is the syncronization? Rsync? NFS? Every single Linux-based PDA
ever introduced on the market, includes sync software.. for Windows. Why?
Where are the standard applications? What applications are you using
TODAY on your Linux desktop for Todos? Memos? Address book? Calendaring?
Do they each have a PDA-based version? Can they be rebuild for a PDA form
factor?
What is the "standard" file format? How do you manage data interchange
between applications, desktop and PDA? It's just not there yet, and it
hasn't been there for far too many years (going on 4).
Using Linux on a PDA as a platform for a network monitoring device, or
for a cell/gsm handheld, or other utilitarian purposes, yes, it fits
perfectly. For a general-use PDA, not a chance...
Let the flames begin. I've heard them all before, time and time again,
and I've spoken in front of many conferences about exactly this topic, so
feel free to light up the torches. I'd love to here some counter points
that I haven't heard in the last 4 years on this topic.
Hook
wrote:
>On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 19:36:55 +0000, Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
>
>> What OS so far.. Linux would be good, but would you need to have a Linux
>> main unit as well?
>
> Just because Linux CAN run on it, doesn't mean it should.
I'm an admitted Linux bigot, but I agree with you. Linux does server
stuff remarkably well; some desktop apps well, others not at all, and
I've got no personal experience of Linux PDAs. I'm seriously
considering one of the new Sharps (SL-C760 probably) when they're
fully anglicised and released somewhere other than Japan, but it's
gong to be as much for something to play with as something to use
seriously.
> Were is the SDK? (Don't say the Linux kernel sources, that's not an SDK)
Most Linux PDAs seem to go for Java as the dev environment of choice,
and I can understand why. Personally, I'd dislike C-type development
with the usual Linux graphics packages - they're no easier than the
Mickeysoft interfaces.
> Where is the syncronization? Rsync? NFS? Every single Linux-based PDA
>ever introduced on the market, includes sync software.. for Windows. Why?
Please, *not* NFS :-) But I take your point and agree with it. OTOH,
my phone won't sync with anything other than 2 named Windoze apps, so
it's not only a PDA-Linux issue.
> What is the "standard" file format? How do you manage data interchange
>between applications, desktop and PDA? It's just not there yet, and it
>hasn't been there for far too many years (going on 4).
Ought to be XML these days.
> Using Linux on a PDA as a platform for a network monitoring device, or
>for a cell/gsm handheld, or other utilitarian purposes, yes, it fits
>perfectly. For a general-use PDA, not a chance...
Agreed.
> Let the flames begin. I've heard them all before, time and time again,
>and I've spoken in front of many conferences about exactly this topic, so
>feel free to light up the torches. I'd love to here some counter points
>that I haven't heard in the last 4 years on this topic.
I'd love to, but can't :-) The reasons tend to be subjective which is
a telling point in itself.
--
The Hooker
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it"
[ www.sfwrg.org ][ www.pubfun.com ]
hooker at pubfun dot com
Gawnsoft
wrote (more or less):
>Epoc, tell us more? Psion? Okay.. PC software and all.. Is it hardware or
>software driven?
I don't understand the last question. Could you rephrase it please?
Daniel James
news:<a5tXa.79372$hOa....@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
, Traveller wrote:
> Other than Pretty pictures and silly games, the Psion 3xx
> still does more out of the Box than the latest Palm.
Whilst I agree with that in general, I am starting to find that
the size limit on Psion SIBO Word documents (practically about
48k of document to fit in 64k of memory) is a limitation. I have
a number of WinWord documents that I'd like to carry with me, but
these convert to about 80-100k each in SIBO format and so won't
load. Annoying, but understandable.
Psion EPOC - on the Series 5xx and Revo - doesn't suffer from
this limitation, of course; but it's a 3c that I regularly carry
with me.
Funny thing is, if I convert the documents to Pocket Word format
and load them onto my Jornada they lose so much formatting that
they're unreadable. Docs2Go on makes them accessible on a Palm,
but the screen is so small that it's hardly worthwhile.
The Psions still rule.
Cheers,
Daniel.
Daniel James
> > What is the "standard" file format? How do you manage data
> > interchange between applications, desktop and PDA? It's just
> > not there yet, and it hasn't been there for far too many
> > years (going on 4).
>
> Ought to be XML these days.
Or maybe vCard/vCal?
If XML, then it would be nice to see some industry-standrd DTDs
for standard PIM application formats, so that micgration from one
PDA to another could be standardized (and, so some extent,
functionality).
[Please, though ... lets not standardize on the XML formats used
by the Zaurus, in which half the data appear as attibutes rather
than as child elements.]
Cheers,
Daniel.
David A. Desrosiers
> If XML, then it would be nice to see some industry-standrd DTDs for
> standard PIM application formats, so that micgration from one PDA to
> another could be standardized (and, so some extent, functionality).
There already is, and I have several users contributing their own
additions to the XML DTDs for pilot-link's XML handling as well. Many
people have been working on it, and I've been trying to get everyone to
work together on the issues. If you're concerned, you could help too.
Here are three to get you started:
http://www.kemibu.org/pilot-link/
http://www.miwie.org/pilot-addresses/
http://wwws.sun.com/software/xml/developers/palm/
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
wrote:
> Linux on a PalmOS handheld would make a horrible platform for a lot of
>reasons, and we end up going over this year after year here.
I hate to do so, because I had held hopes of a Linux device as a
replacement for my obsolete Psion PDA, but I absolutely agree
that Linux just isn't right for a PDA.
Linux does a whole heap of things right, but as far as I can
tell, for a really satisfactory PDA experience you need to start
with an operating system that is designed to suit what you expect
your PDA to do. And you probably have to rewrite it a few times
also. Getting that right (for the low impact, single tasking
system they wanted) was one of the things that Palm did really
well.
It is only when you try extending that into a more general device
that Palm encountered problems. Palm today probably is not
totally unlike the problems Apple encountered when trying to move
from their early Macintosh to a multitasking operating system.
Windows CE went from the other direction, with multitasking to
start, but didn't have performance to match the available CPUs
(I'm not keen about solving that by using a battery eating 400
MHz ARM).
John Doe
> And you probably have to rewrite it a few times also. Getting that right
> (for the low impact, single tasking system they wanted) was one of the
> things that Palm did really well.
Please remember too, that Palm/Palmsource did not write the low-level
kernel that is used under PalmOS itself. A license to use it was purchased
by Palm, from KADAK, and this is why you don't have threads, multitasking,
and other features in PalmOS. Not because it's not possible, but because
they didn't license it to include it. From the Palm knowledgebase:
----
Palm OS is built on top of a small kernel that Palm licensed from Kadak.
The terms and conditions of that license specifically state that Palm may
not expose the API for creating/manipulating tasks within the OS. If you
need access to these calls you need to contact Kadak at (604) 734-2796,
or visit their website at http://www.kadak.com
The Palm OS ROM is built with support for a very few tasks. There are
only enough task slots for the ROM's needs. In order to support more
tasks the ROM would need to be rebuilt.
----
In this context, Linux would be the "kernel" as well as the OS, but in
the PalmOS paradigm, the OS and the built-in applications appear to be
"seamlessly integrated", whereas in Linux they are not. You can decouple
pieces and parts everywhere, and use multiple dozens of toolkits to build
your applications (wxWindows, Gtk, QT, Xlib, etc.)
It's definately possible for Linux to work on a PDA, and be successful,
but not today, not without a completely new design under the hood, geared
specifically for PDAs and handheld devices. This means a unified toolkit,
an SDK that talks through that toolkit and provides a "similar" interface
in all applications, etc.
Also, in Linux by default (depending on your window manager of choice),
windows can be "moved" around. In PalmOS, every application is opened
"modal", and can't be moved out of the way. This also has to be considered
as the move towards tasking, threads, and other things gains in popularity
on handheld devices. I personally like the modal format, and this can be
somewhat achieved with window managers like ion, but why do we even need a
window manager at all? Just run every application full-screen, modal, with
a task switcher to move between them. A PDA screen is far too small to
have to deal with multiple application windows on the screen at the same
time.
These kinds of issues need to be ironed out, and with Linux being
such a disconnected, collaborative effort, trying to get these issues
agreed upon with people located in your "team", who may be all over the
world, many whom you may never even meet, is difficult.
Ever try to bring 6 friends to a video store and pick a movie to watch?
Same thing.
one: "I've seen that one already."
two: "I didn't like that one."
three: "I didn't see it, I heard it was good."
four: "That actor sucks."
..and so on.
Linux on a PDA may happen, and it may be successful, but not this year,
and likely not the next 1-2 years. Not in a capacity that can REPLACE what
we are using PalmOS PDAs for today.
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
wrote:
> Also, in Linux by default (depending on your window manager of choice),
>windows can be "moved" around. In PalmOS, every application is opened
>"modal", and can't be moved out of the way. This also has to be considered
>as the move towards tasking, threads, and other things gains in popularity
>on handheld devices. I personally like the modal format, and this can be
>somewhat achieved with window managers like ion, but why do we even need a
>window manager at all? Just run every application full-screen, modal, with
>a task switcher to move between them. A PDA screen is far too small to
>have to deal with multiple application windows on the screen at the same
>time.
It amuses me considerably to note that running every object
oriented application (albeit not every window within an
application) full screen, modal, with a nice fast task switcher
to move between them was standard on Psion Epoc PDAs in 1997 (and
on Psion SIBI from much earlier than that).
Seems to me that lots of people are trying to reinvent a wheel
that not everyone broke the first time around.
Philip Sheard
> oriented application (albeit not every window within an
> application) full screen, modal, with a nice fast task switcher
> to move between them was standard on Psion Epoc PDAs in 1997 (and
> on Psion SIBI from much earlier than that).
>
> Seems to me that lots of people are trying to reinvent a wheel
> that not everyone broke the first time around.
Surely at least one ring of the inferno is reserved for Psion diehards.
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Gawnsoft
<in...@vanguardsoftware.co.uk> wrote (more or less):
>> It amuses me considerably to note that running every object
>> oriented application (albeit not every window within an
>> application) full screen, modal, with a nice fast task switcher
>> to move between them was standard on Psion Epoc PDAs in 1997 (and
>> on Psion SIBI from much earlier than that).
>>
>> Seems to me that lots of people are trying to reinvent a wheel
>> that not everyone broke the first time around.
>
>Surely at least one ring of the inferno is reserved for Psion diehards.
We'll be happy to move onto another platform as soon as one catches
up.
In fact, we're quite impatient for one to catch up, as our Psions are
gettting old.
Gawnsoft
wrote (more or less):
>Subject:
> Re: [memplug] Palmtop OS and other handheld
> systems
> Date:
> Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
> From:
> MrGadget <data...@yahoo.com>
> To:
> abr...@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>1-AUG-03
>Hello,
> There are a variety of handheld OS/operating systems and
> each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Check them
> out:
>1. Pocket PC (souped up Windows CE)
>2. Palm OS
>3. Modified Palm OS for Sony systems
>4. Symbian (primarily on Psion systems but also licensed to other
> systems, mainly European and some asian)
Last sales figures I saw showed SymbianOS devices outselling PocketPC
& PalmOS combined, worldwide.
(Nokia Series 60 & series 80 devices, SonyEricsson P800)
>5. Propietary
>6. Newton and related OS, and their modifications through the years
>7. TI/Texas Instruments-based chip systems
>8. ARM/Motorola and IBM-base chips
>9. NEC-based chip systems (V-chip not to be confused with the
> chip that protects children). NEC's handheld chips are coded
> "V" and are as powerful as Motorola's and Intel
>10. New Intel chips for handheld systems
>11. Windows based handhelds (which also show up on some
> Sprint PCS-based cellphones. Microsoft is indeed invading
> everywhere. In fact, check out Microsoft's Smart House, which
> features ubiquitous technology from handheld devices to
> intelligent systems and "smart systems" in slates.)
>12. Check out HP's CoolTown (a real town) and some of their
> concepts on handheld systems
>13. Browse Flashcommerce.com: www.flashcommerce.com
>More later,
>Allen
>
--
Roy S Schestowitz
> Last sales figures I saw showed SymbianOS devices outselling PocketPC
> & PalmOS combined, worldwide.
It seems to make sense, but Symbian runs on cellular phones and isn't
associated with PDA's. This means that many users of Symbian only use it to
send SMS messages and play some pop tunes.
Roy