Community Discussion: Credit Score inaccurate

[John Pollard]

Community Discussion: Credit Score inaccurate

Found at: https://tinyurl.com/2fdpck65

ALSO

Community Discussion: Credit Score Mortgage Issue

Found at: https://tinyurl.com/4xjrsk7j


The referenced Quicken Community discussions are just examples of the issue I'm attempting to address here.

This post is intended to shed some light on a complaint that frequently occurs in the Quicken Community, namely:
Why does Quicken "wrongly" include my mortgage loans with my credit card liabilities in the "Credit Card Usage" section of the Credit Score display?

While it is true that the (Equifax) Credit Card score presented by Quicken does include mortgage loans with credit card liabilities (and I fully agree that the wording is confusing), it is far from clear that the credit score presented in Quicken was calculated by treating mortgage loans the same as credit card liabilities.
In fact, there is virtually no legitimate evidence presented by any user to demonstrate that the two liabilities are being treated the same when computing the credit score.
The only "evidence" is that the total amount of Quicken credit card debt and the total amount of Quicken mortgage debt are added together in the credit score box labelled "Credit Card Usage" (confusing to be sure, but not definitive of how those amounts are being used in the credit score calculation).

Users have made flat-out claims that their Quicken credit score is incorrect.
And virtually all of them claim that their "real" score is higher than Quicken's: if true, I believe it to be a coincidence.

I am no expert in the credit score field; all I know is what I have gleaned from reading information available on the internet;
most of that information comes from the credit bureaus, financial institutions that utilize credit scores, and other sources I consider fairly reliable.
Anyone who can add useful info to my comments - including providing verifiably contradictory info - is encouraged to do so.
Among other sources, see:
The Complete Guide to Your VantageScore Found here: https://tinyurl.com/4pkh4p56
Specifically note the "Depth of Credit" factor.

1.) There are multiple credit score models.
Among them are FICO, VantageScore (at least 3 separate models),
the personal finance app Mint model, and possibly others created privately by lenders.
Each model can calculate a different score for the same individual.

2.) The Quicken credit score supplied by Equifax is "calculated using VangageScore 3.0." There are older Vantage score models, as well as a newer one: VantageScore 4.0.

3.) Quicken credit scores are only updated once every three months.
It's important to note the "Credit Score" date at the top of the credit score window to see when the score was last updated. [To the right of that date is the date of the "Next Update", which on my Quicken credit score window is three months from the "Credit Score" date.]

4.) To determine whether Quicken's credit score is correct, it must be compared to a score calculated using the same scoring model and calculated on the same date (or a date that is comparable to the Quicken credit score date). Credit bureaus calculate credit scores more often than every three months.

5.) I have compared my Quicken credit score to my credit score at the three credit bureaus, and have not found any meaningful difference.
The last time I compared (sometime during the month of May 2023), my Quicken credit score as as-of April 9, 2023 was HIGHER than my newer actual Experian credit score (correctly so since credit inquiries had been made between the time of my April Quicken score and my May score directly from Experian).

[To make #5 even clearer: My April 2023 Quicken credit score was 802.
At that time my outstanding home mortgage debt dwarfed my credit card debt, being 25 times greater than my outstanding credit card debt.
I consider it virtually impossible that my Quicken credit score was computed by combining my mortgage debt with my credit card debt.]

6.) I believe that the entire contents of the Quicken Credit Score window are controlled by Equifax.


Finally; here are Quicken's explicit instructions to users who believe their Quicken credit score is wrong
(and I believe that would include those who find the Quicken credit score presentation confusing).

"What if there’s an inaccuracy in the credit summary that I wish to dispute?

"Because Quicken does not control the content of the credit report, you must contact Equifax if you have a dispute.
You can contact Equifax directly by clicking the link at the bottom of the credit score page. When you click the 'Contact Equifax' link, a pop-up appears with information on how to contact Equifax by mail or via their online dispute form, or you can use the information below:

"Contact Equifax
Use the Equifax Online Dispute form or call or write a letter to Equifax describing the information you think is incorrect. Send copies of supporting documents if available.
Equifax Information Services, LLC
P.O. Box 740256
Atlanta, GA 30374-0256
866-349-5191"


BOTTOM LINE: I believe the complaints about the Quicken credit score are much ado about virtually nothing. There's no disagreement that the wording in the Quicken credit score display is confusing at best. But there is NO legitimate evidence that the confusing wording has any relationship to the displayed Quicken credit score.
[It should be noted that it is impossible for an individual to compute their own credit score, so no user can independently claim to know their score is "wrong". Any credit score complaints must be taken up with the credit bureau that supplied the score.]

[Tom Pfeifer]

I agree that "Credit Card Usage" section is poorly labeled if they are including mortgage info there, but there's no reason to think that the Quicken score is wrong. It is, after all, correct to include your mortgage and/or auto loans etc. in your credit score.

FWIW, my Quicken credit score is currently identical to to the Equifax-based score displayed at Credit Karma. Both are using VangageScore 3.0 to calculate the score. The Credit Karma one is updated more often, so it is not unusual for the 2 scores to be slightly different at times. Although I don't currently have a mortgage, my credit reports still include the one I paid off 4 years ago as a "closed" account.

[John Pollard]

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-5, John Pollard wrote:
> Community Discussion: Credit Score inaccurate

Here's a newer Community Discussion on this subject. https://tinyurl.com/4mcfc3vr

The original poster in that discussion pretty much gets it right, so hopefully other Community users will read the discussion and reassess their complaints.

I have a couple of fairly minor disagreements with the op's conclusions however.

My first disagreement is that I don't think that the only (or necessarily even the primary) Quicken user mistake when comparing credit scores is, that they are comparing the Equifax/Quicken VantageScore 3.0 to FICO scores. While that is certainly a possible explanation for some score differences, as I suggested earlier; it should be noted that, of the three credit bureaus, both Equifax (the Quicken credit score supplier) and TransUnion use VantageScore 3.0 - only Experian uses FICO (and the most important score for the complainant's purposes is the Equifax score at the Equifax web site).

I think comparing the VantageScore 3.0 credit score in Quicken to other credit bureau VantageScore 3.0 scores that are newer than the credit score in Quicken is also a likely explanation for perceived score differences.

My second disagreement is that the op assumes the misleading wording (*) in the Quicken credit score display is created by Quicken. Not only is there NO evidence that Quicken is creating that wording; but given the fact that it would be a trivial matter for Quicken to have already corrected that wording if they could, I feel pretty certain that Quicken cannot fix that wording. As I noted earlier, I believe the entire Quicken credit score display is created by Equifax, and can only be changed by Equifax.

[(*) The misleading wording in Quicken is located in the second section of the Quicken Credit Score descriptive display, and reads "CREDIT CARD DEBT CREDIT CARD LIMIT" - but the amounts associated with that text include mortgages. Most complainants appear to have based their complaints entirely on assuming that the misleading text in Quicken defined how the credit score was computed - which is almost certainly not true.]

[John Pollard]

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-5, John Pollard wrote:

> Community Discussion: Credit Score inaccurate
> Found at: https://tinyurl.com/2fdpck65
> ALSO
> Community Discussion: Credit Score Mortgage Issue
> Found at: https://tinyurl.com/4xjrsk7j

> The referenced Quicken Community discussions are just examples of the issue I'm attempting to address here.
>
> This post is intended to shed some light on a complaint that frequently occurs in the Quicken Community, namely:
> Why does Quicken "wrongly" include my mortgage loans with my credit card liabilities
> in the "Credit Card Usage" section of the Credit Score display?
>
> While it is true that the (Equifax) Credit Card score presented by Quicken does include mortgage loans with credit card liabilities
> (and I fully agree that the wording is confusing), it is far from clear that the credit score presented in Quicken
> was calculated by treating mortgage loans the same as credit card liabilities.
> In fact, there is virtually no legitimate evidence presented by any user to demonstrate that the two liabilities
> are being treated the same when computing the credit score.
> The only "evidence" is that the total amount of Quicken credit card debt and the total amount of Quicken mortgage debt
> are added together in the credit score box labelled "Credit Card Usage"
> (confusing to be sure, but not definitive of how those amounts are being used in the credit score calculation).

When I first started this discussion, my Quicken Credit Score was computed in April 2023. It has now been 3 months and I have a new Quicken Credit Score (as of July 8, 2023).

My new (July 8, 2023) Quicken Credit Score is 2 points higher than my July 9, 2023 credit score at Equifax.
I attribute that minor difference to a "credit inquiry" that Equifax has factored into my
credit score, but which will not affect my Quicken credit score until my next Quicken
score is available in 3 months.

Further, my new Quicken Credit Score "display" now correctly does NOT include mortgage
debt in the same box as credit card debt.
That, in turn, causes my Quicken Credit Score display of "Percentage of credit limit usage"
to agree with my actual "Percentage of credit limit usage".

The only downside to the change in presentation of "credit limit usage", is that it is not possible to
demonstrate conclusively that the incorrect credit limit usage percent originally displayed in Quicken
(for me, back in April) was not used to compute the ultimate credit score.

At the end of the day, I remain convinced that:
a.) the Quicken credit score was always "correct"
(that it was the same as the score at Equifax as of the date of the Quicken credit score), and
b.) that the users who complained that the Quicken credit score issue was not fixed when
Quicken reported that is WAS fixed, were wrong.
The only problem was that Quicken users only get a new Quicken credit score
every 3 months; and until that 3 months had past, the old Quicken
credit score display would remain exactly the same.