Quicken's New Subscription Model - Your Quicken Data Will Be Read-Only If You Don't Pay Up

[platea...@gmail.com]

Quicken Inc recently announced a new subscription model. The subscription is for 1 year and the price point appears to be approximately 2.5 times what the current year versions sell for.

More concerning than the price increase is your Quicken data will become read-only if you fail to renew the subscription.

This new model is currently being test driven with the Canadian version of Quicken 2017 and, if nothing changes between now and the roll out of Quicken 2018, it will likely be the model for US versions of Quicken.

To read the details of the subscription model, see the Quicken Canada Order Questions here:

https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-canada-order-questions

Here is an excerpt from the order questions FAQ with the info on what happens if your subscription expires:

What happens when my Quicken subscription ends?
When your Quicken subscription ends, you'll still be able to access, view, and export all of your financial data. You will never be blocked from accessing your financial history. However, Quicken will switch to a reduced functionality mode. In this mode, some features may be limited or unavailable. For example: •You can open existing data files and see all your existing data
•You can view, edit and delete existing transactions—including attachments.
•You can create, run, print and save reports.
•You can export your data, make or restore a backup, and make a copy of a file.
•You cannot access any Connected Services such as bank downloads, stock quotes, online bill pay, bill linking, credit score, or mobile sync.
•You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry.


There is a suggestion on the Quicken Community forum that Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying, with a lengthy discussion on the topic. That discussion has been closed to further comments, but you can still vote for the suggestion. Note - you will need to register for the forum to vote.

https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all

If you feel strongly about the new subscription model and would like to contact Quicken Inc CEO Eric Dunn, you can find the corporate headquarters address and phone number here:

https://www.quicken.com/locations

[Zaidy036]

I would not mind a subscription but 2.5 x current price per year seems
greedy to me.

Current pricing equivalent of upgrading every year, assuming no price
increases, is 1 x, upgrading every second year 0.5 x, and every third
year, 0.33 x.

A fairer price would be 1x for a 1 year subscription and multi-year
subscriptions lower per year. Maybe offer 1.6x for 2 years, and 1.2x for
3 years.

[Marc Auslander]

I'm on the other side of this sort of.

My big concert is that the new Quicken owners create a sustanable
business model - because I know of no alterntive to Quicken.

Today, Quicken in effect costs me $15 a year - which is way less than I
think its worth.

The danger as i see it is that if they set the price too high and
loose customers they won't get them back by dropping the price. But
if they set it too low they'll go out of business!

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

Zaidy036 <Zaid...@isp.spam> wrote:

>I would not mind a subscription but 2.5 x current price per year seems
>greedy to me.

Current pricing models were set when nearly everyone had a PC or laptop. Those
days have long passed.

>A fairer price would be 1x for a 1 year subscription and multi-year
>subscriptions lower per year. Maybe offer 1.6x for 2 years, and 1.2x for
>3 years.

It's not about fairness, since everyone's definition of fair is different. It's
about setting a price that maximizes profit and reflects how much buyers value
the software. If they price it too low or too high, they go out of business.

[Zaidy036]

Quicken's annual upgrades are just incremental and sometimes only
cosmetic and that is why I think 2.5x per year is excessive. I now
upgrade only every 2 or 3 years but I am willing to pay more to keep
Quicken in business.

My suggestion would increase everyone's cost except for those that now
upgrade annually. It would also increase the company's income and
provide a continuing user subscription base for them to plan future
offerings.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 11:06:01 -0500, Zaidy036 <Zaid...@isp.spam>
wrote:

>On 2/12/2017 10:24 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
>> Zaidy036 <Zaid...@isp.spam> wrote:
>>
>>> I would not mind a subscription but 2.5 x current price per year seems
>>> greedy to me.
>>
>> Current pricing models were set when nearly everyone had a PC or laptop. Those
>> days have long passed.
>>
>>> A fairer price would be 1x for a 1 year subscription and multi-year
>>> subscriptions lower per year. Maybe offer 1.6x for 2 years, and 1.2x for
>>> 3 years.
>>
>> It's not about fairness, since everyone's definition of fair is different. It's
>> about setting a price that maximizes profit and reflects how much buyers value
>> the software. If they price it too low or too high, they go out of business.
>>
>
>Quicken's annual upgrades are just incremental and sometimes only
>cosmetic and that is why I think 2.5x per year is excessive. I now
>upgrade only every 2 or 3 years but I am willing to pay more to keep
>Quicken in business.

I agree completely. I also upgrade only every two or three years, but
would be willing to do so every year if there were real improvements
in the new year's version.

And I wouldn't mind paying for an annual subscription if the price
were not excessive. Going to 2.5 times the current selling price is
*way* too excessive. If they do this, I fear that they will lose a
large percentage of their clientele, and go out of business; that
would be a terrible shame, not only for the company, but for all of us
who use Quicken.

[John Carter]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote in
news:fno3ac1ke8fr2lq7d...@4ax.com:

The Canadian model of 2.5x - is that Canadian dollars? If so, that
number should be less in dollars US for the company to get equivalent
revenue.

[John Pollard]

"Zaidy036" wrote

Quicken's annual upgrades are just incremental and sometimes only
cosmetic and that is why I think 2.5x per year is excessive.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You are only able to determine whether Quicken's price is excessive to you.

The "market" for financial software is the only place where appropriate
prices can be determined. Just because you do not find sufficient benefit to
cause you to pay the price, does not mean others share your opinion. Neither
Quicken nor any other product/service can afford to set their prices so that
every buyer, and potential buyer, will believe those prices are worth
paying.

Your personal choices can only speak to your own opinion - they can not
speak for other's personal choices.

If you do not believe Quicken provides you with benefits that are worth the
price, you are welcome to exercise your options: use another financial
software product; use a substitute product (such as Excel); commission
someone to create a product for you; create your own product (practically
everyone claims to be a "coder" today - but none have been able to create a
better product than Quicken ... should make you think); or use pencil and
paper.

Quicken must attempt to choose a price that maximizes their profits - which
requires providing the combination of features and cost that produces the
best financial result ... which causes enough customers to pay for the
product to cause it to remain a viable product.

Customer price preference comprises only one of the two parts of the "right"
price - if customers of a product are not willing to pay for the features
they want ... one way or the other, they will not get those features from
that product.

[platea...@gmail.com]

Although a steep price increase is concerning, my primary reason for posting was the fact that your data file will become read only should your subscription lapse. The confirmation of subscription will be done using the Intuit ID. So you're continued ability to enter data will rely on successfully phoning home to Quicken Inc periodically.

No one else finds this aspect of the new subscription model concerning?

[nob...@nada.com]

Yes, the free market will determine the price for the product, but
they take a big risk with home users simply wanting to manage a couple
of checking accounts and credit cards. An increase as large as
proposed will push many of us out, to the bank bill pay services and
other software, like MoneySpire. These may take a little more effort
but with the small number of accounts and transactions it's not a
substantial burden. This is the way we used to do it before CheckFree.
I hope they will reconsider the pricing. Perhaps have several options
for cheaper versions if you don't want investment or tax tracking or
allerts or budgetting (as Money Spire does now). Just basic household
management.

I've been using Quicken since MS-DOS and would love to just keep it
going but not at 2.5 times current cost.

[John Pollard]

<nob...@nada.com wrote >You are only able to determine whether Quicken's

--------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, the free market will determine the price for the product, but
they take a big risk with home users simply wanting to manage a couple
of checking accounts and credit cards. An increase as large as
proposed will push many of us out, to the bank bill pay services and
other software, like MoneySpire. These may take a little more effort
but with the small number of accounts and transactions it's not a
substantial burden. This is the way we used to do it before CheckFree.
I hope they will reconsider the pricing. Perhaps have several options
for cheaper versions if you don't want investment or tax tracking or
allerts or budgetting (as Money Spire does now). Just basic household
management.

I've been using Quicken since MS-DOS and would love to just keep it
going but not at 2.5 times current cost.

-------------------------------------------------

It seems you missed the point.

Neither you, nor any other user, is in a position to determine whether an
estimated future subscription product will be successful in the U.S. ... and
you should not be trying to pretend that you can do so.

Individual users will make that determination on their own, and the net
effect of their decisions - which can only be known sometime well after the
the new pricing is in effect - will be the deciding factor. No user should
be foolish enough to rely significantly on the estimates of other users, who
have no meaningful insights. The value of a product or service is 100% an
individual decision - and not all users/potential-users will value a given
product the same. Just because you do not think you will like the result
means nothing to determining whether other users will find the product/price
acceptable.

Further: I see no evidence that the experiment in Canada (which is priced in
Canadian dollars for the only two Canadian versions) indicates that the new
price for a subscription to Quicken in the U.S. will be 2.5 times the
current cost for any U.S. user - it's more likely that the subscription
price for U.S. users will be cheaper for those who typically upgrade every
year, and "slightly" higher for those who typically upgrade every three
years.

I suggest you recheck your premises.

[nob...@nada.com]

I'm not pretending anything. All I suggested it that economics 101
says raising cost decreases consumption. I simply suggested some
things that might cause that to happen.

>
>Individual users will make that determination on their own, and the net
>effect of their decisions - which can only be known sometime well after the
>the new pricing is in effect - will be the deciding factor. No user should
>be foolish enough to rely significantly on the estimates of other users, who
>have no meaningful insights. The value of a product or service is 100% an
>individual decision - and not all users/potential-users will value a given
>product the same. Just because you do not think you will like the result
>means nothing to determining whether other users will find the product/price
>acceptable.

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I agreed with what you said.

[platea...@gmail.com]

John Pollard,

I find your answers here and previously on the Quicken Community forum to be extremely helpful and accurate.

I would very much like to know your opinion on the proposed data file locking on subscription lapse. Do you find this concerning?

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 20:25:24 -0600, "John Pollard"
<inv...@invalid.com> wrote:


>Further: I see no evidence that the experiment in Canada (which is priced in
>Canadian dollars for the only two Canadian versions) indicates that the new
>price for a subscription to Quicken in the U.S. will be 2.5 times the
>current cost for any U.S. user - it's more likely that the subscription
>price for U.S. users will be cheaper for those who typically upgrade every
>year, and "slightly" higher for those who typically upgrade every three
>years.

I hope you're right!

[John Pollard]

------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

If I ignore everything else, I can safely say I would prefer that there be
no restriction on access to my Quicken data if I do not upgrade.

The trouble I see is that "everything else" is too important to ignore.

I start by asking myself how much I want Quicken to remain a viable product.
While I can't put my wish into objective terms that would give others a
number to compare to, for example; I can say that Quicken is valuable enough
to me that I am prepared to accept what some consider to be unacceptable, in
order to keep the product viable. If Quicken went out of business because
they failed to implement this new subscription feature, I would be a very
unhappy camper. [They may go out of business anyway, but they should not do
so without trying every approach to avoid it.]

Quicken is the only personal financial product I know of that gives me the
capabilities I want.
[For users whose needs are very limited, there may be several other products
that would be acceptable to them - I have no argument that would favor
Quicken in that situation. But I don't believe that gives those users any
legitimate ammunition to complain about Quicken's efforts to remain viable:
if a person can use another product, they are fortunate but they should not
want to interfere with those who can not.]

To some extent, the issue will boil down to whether the described
"subscription" model is necessary and sufficient to keep Quicken in
business. I don't believe any user has the information necessary to
determine that - and I think even Quicken is making some guesses on the
matter - but Quicken is clearly in a better position to know what it takes
than any user.

Those users who claim the subscription model is a scam or an attempt to earn
undeserved profits appear to be hoping that their claims, for which they
have no evidence, will influence Quicken and other users away from the
subscription model. My position is that I don't know whether the
subscription model Quicken eventually implements will help: I suspect only
time will tell. I have no information that would allow me to second guess
Quicken; and I'm surely not going to try to tell other users how they should
think or what they should do: choosing to use the subscription model is an
individual decision; the same product, or service, will have a different
perceived value for different individuals.

A lot of what I have read from users on this subject has been a rush to
judgement. If you want to read some of that, you can check out this Quicken
Community discussion:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they
[Note the link at the bottom of that discussion which will display the
hidden comments.]

In my opinion, Eric Dunn's comments in that discussion make sense. When all
users eligible for support are on the same version, Quicken will be able to
provide better support, and to free up more resources to apply to fixing
problems and introducing new features.

As it stands now, subscription model users will have complete "access" to
their data even if they do not upgrade. As Eric Dunn says, " ... even after
the subscription ends, users will have full access to all of their Quicken
data, including the ability to edit,run/print reports, and export". At this
point, I believe users should be asking Quicken for details about the
meaning of "edit" and "export" in that sentence. [I believe the question
about "export" has already been asked in the Quicken Community, and that
Quicken is looking to provide an explanation. Since the Canadian
subscription model is somewhat of an experiment, I suspect that the final
features/limitations for the U.S. subscription version have not yet been
determined.]

Many users have falsely represented the new subscription model as a large
across-the-board price increase. Some of those users have failed to consider
that the only prices known at this point are for the Canadian versions of
Quicken. First; those prices are in Canadian dollars, they'd need to be
converted to U.S. dollars for comparison. Second; there are only two
Canadian versions, the equivalent of the U.S. Deluxe and Home & Business
versions (while there are some five or six U.S. versions), so again, direct
price comparisons may not make much sense.

What Quicken has said about pricing is that users who were upgrading every
year will be paying less under the subscription model, and those who were
upgrading every three years will be paying slightly more under the
subscription model. I know of no one who has verifiable information which
refutes that.

At the end of the day - if there are no new bombshell restrictions in a
U.S.subscription version of Quicken, I will continue with my current
practice, which is to purchase every new version. I start using a new
version either when my current version expires, or sometimes when a newer
version has some feature I really want (and/or fixes a problem that I
really dislike about my current version). I purchase every version because:
I want to know how it works and to be able to investigate claims made by
others about how it does, or does not, work; and I want to support Quicken
... I want Quicken to continue to be around; it is by far my most valuable
software product (and I consider it well worth its current price, and
estimated future price).

[Sharx35]

Another shill for the owners of Quicken. You have folded like a cheap
Italian suit. This is the time when a strong, solid wall of disapproval
should be shown. You are a very poor negotiator.

[Sherlock]

I completely agree.

I am concerned about the potential instability of Quicken's required software updates in the new model.

[Marc Auslander]

>Sherlock <sh02...@gmail.com> writes:

>
> I completely agree.
>
> I am concerned about the potential instability of Quicken's required software updates in the new model.

I'm hoping this will get better! Today, Quicken has a confused mix of
subscription - every three years - and new features - every year. So
they need to try to encourage updates at more than three year
intervals.

With pure subscription the only reasons to modify the software are true
improvements or response to (non existent) competition. So hopefully
product stability will have more value and low value changes less
value to the developers.

[platea...@gmail.com]

John, thanks for your usual thorough and thoughtful response.

[Arnie Goetchius]

John Pollard wrote:
> plateau.eyes wrote:
>
> John Pollard,
>
> I find your answers here and previously on the Quicken Community forum to be
> extremely helpful and accurate.
>
> I would very much like to know your opinion on the proposed data file locking on
> subscription lapse. Do you find this concerning?
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for the vote of confidence.

=======snipped========

>
> I want Quicken to continue to be
> around; it is by far my most valuable software product (and I consider it well
> worth its current price, and estimated future price).

I agree 100%. We need Quicken to continue to be around. If the price goes too
high, someone will come up with a better product but I don't expect that to happen.

[nob...@nada.com]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:22:42 -0500, Fred <not-...@no-spam-please.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 13:00:52 -0800, nob...@nada.com wrote:
>
>>but
>>they take a big risk with home users simply wanting to manage a couple
>>of checking accounts and credit cards. An increase as large as
>>proposed will push many of us out, to the bank bill pay services and
>>other software
>
>

>Yes.


Agreed. They may be wise to offer diffeent tiers depending on what
features you want. We have twp checking accounts and 2 credit cards.
That's it. Don't need portfolio management functions, not even
scheduled payments. Just updates and bank bill pay.

On the other hand they are free to charge what the like for whatever
they offer, and the market will decide.

[Sherlock]

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 9:05:31 AM UTC-8, John Pollard wrote:

It appears users of lapsed subscriptions will have the ability to use the product without online services and support (essentially one-year instead of the current three-year model):
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all&topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Breply_id%5D=18851715#reply_18851715

[geor...@gmail.com]

Take a look at Moneyspire. It's a really good Quicken alternative and the software is not a subscription. They have a free trial at http://www.moneyspire.com

[danbrown]

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 4:42:24 PM UTC-5, geor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Take a look at Moneyspire. It's a really good Quicken alternative and the software is not a subscription. They have a free trial at http://www.moneyspire.com

It can't roll-up sub-categories into the Categoty total, and it's reporting format is double spaced, wasting a large amount of paper.

AND, you'd need to Export from Q into QIF format 1 account at a time ...

So, NO THANKS. It's still an immature, inadequate product.

[John Pollard]

plateau.eyes wrote

Quicken Inc recently announced a new subscription model. The subscription is
for 1 year and the price point appears to be approximately 2.5 times what
the current year versions sell for.

More concerning than the price increase is your Quicken data will become
read-only if you fail to renew the subscription.

This new model is currently being test driven with the Canadian version of
Quicken 2017 and, if nothing changes between now and the roll out of Quicken
2018, it will likely be the model for US versions of Quicken.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quicken has stated (in early August 2017): The new subscription model will
NOT make Quicken data read-only after the subscription expires.

[JohnA]

>> No one else finds this aspect of the new subscription model concerning?

No, that's how a subscription works. The data is yours but the
manipulation, aggregation and use of the data by the Qucken program is only
as good as the subscription lasts. No one would argue that once their
Microsoft Word subscription expires, they should just continue using Word as
if nothing had happened, do they? Why is Quicken any different? Quicken is
a lot more than just Internet downloads... if you don't want to use Quicken,
export your data and use a different program.


wrote in message
news:31fe2f0d-e9f1-4730...@googlegroups.com...

[Sherlock]

On 2017-08-26 20:43:31 +0000, JohnA said:

>>>
>>> No one else finds this aspect of the new subscription model concerning?
>
> No, that's how a subscription works. The data is yours but the
> manipulation, aggregation and use of the data by the Qucken program is
> only as good as the subscription lasts. No one would argue that once
> their Microsoft Word subscription expires, they should just continue
> using Word as if nothing had happened, do they? Why is Quicken any
> different? Quicken is a lot more than just Internet downloads... if
> you don't want to use Quicken, export your data and use a different
> program.
>

Microsoft supports both subscription and non-subscription models for
their Office products. Quicken was proposing to only provide a
subscription model for Quicken.

IHowever, in early August, Quicken announced they decided to change the
behavior of the product for subscription customers after membership
expires. Quicken's new subscription model now appears to be the same
as their "non-subscription" model except the term of membership for
Online Services and Support has been reduced from three years to one
year. In other words, we should continue to be able to use Quicken
after membership expires. The Quicken subscription is only for Online
Services and Support.

[nob...@nada.com]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 16:43:31 -0400, "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org>
wrote:

>>> No one else finds this aspect of the new subscription model concerning?
>
>No, that's how a subscription works. The data is yours but the
>manipulation, aggregation and use of the data by the Qucken program is only
>as good as the subscription lasts. No one would argue that once their
>Microsoft Word subscription expires, they should just continue using Word as
>if nothing had happened, do they? Why is Quicken any different? Quicken is
>a lot more than just Internet downloads... if you don't want to use Quicken,
>export your data and use a different program.
>
>

Except my Word installed on my PC doesn't expire. I can chooose not
to have the subscription version.

[XS11E]

"JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org> wrote:

> if you don't want to use Quicken, export your data and use a
> different program.

That would be easy if there was a different program, there isn't, not
one that works. If you know of one, please let us know.

I've tried most I could find and found no other to be satisfactory.

--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[Sherlock]

On 2017-08-27 17:40:46 +0000, XS11E said:

> "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org> wrote:
>
>> if you don't want to use Quicken, export your data and use a
>> different program.
>
> That would be easy if there was a different program, there isn't, not
> one that works. If you know of one, please let us know.
>
> I've tried most I could find and found no other to be satisfactory.

I suppose it depends on the functionality you require.

I've been playing with GnuCash and KMyMoney as potential replacements
for Quicken for sometime and I've found both to be adequate. KMyMoney
is certainly easier (more Quicken-like) but less flexible than GnuCash.

The intriguing benefits for these Quicken alternatives are:
* platform portability (Windows, Linux, and OS X)
* open source (I can build and patch if necessary)
* price

My primary motivation for evaluating Quicken alternatives is that
Quicken Inc. may not survive.

I think Quicken is (or was) a great product.  Unfortunately, instead of
driving the product's maintenance and support costs down, Intuit
managed to increase their costs (for example, with EWC and Mobile)
which Quicken Inc. must now attempt to pass on to consumers.  

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

Sherlock <non...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>I've been playing with GnuCash and KMyMoney as potential replacements
>for Quicken for sometime and I've found both to be adequate. KMyMoney
>is certainly easier (more Quicken-like) but less flexible than GnuCash.
>
>The intriguing benefits for these Quicken alternatives are:
> * platform portability (Windows, Linux, and OS X)
> * open source (I can build and patch if necessary)
> * price

And for me, the showstopping blocker is loss of downloads from my financial
institutions. I'm not going to enter 100s of transactions per week by hand.

Regretably, I see my primary bank and broker looking at Quicken licensing fees
and the rapidly dwindling number of desktop PC users and deciding to pull the
plug. That will be a sad day.

[Sherlock]

Both GnuCash and KMyMoney are able to download and import transactions
and balances from Direct Connect financial institutions (as well as
stock prices). They can also import QFX files (and other file
formats). My thinking is that the GnuCash and KMyMoney (and other
personal financial software product) communities may be large enough to
encourage many financial institutions to continue to provide their
customers with access to their financial data in a compatible format.
I would consider moving from a financial institution that chose not do
provide such support.

[JohnA]

>> Except my Word installed on my PC doesn't expire. I can chooose not
to have the subscription version

Are you suggesting that any subscription based software product must have
non-subscription based alternatives to be viable? According to Gartner,
more than 80% of software vendors will change their business model to
subscription by 2020
(http://www.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/moving-to-a-software-subscription-model/).
Can you guarantee that Microsoft will always have a non-subscription based
model alternative available to customers?

wrote in message news:kg64qctvkk34k7qvr...@4ax.com...

[JohnA]

>> That would be easy if there was a different program, there isn't, not
one that works. If you know of one, please let us know.

I don't which is why I use Quicken and would pay an annual subscription
without hesitation. On the other hand, that's me and others might find a
spreadsheet to be a viable alternative for their needs. One needs to decide
if the use of Quicken is worth it before purchasing the subscription.
Practically for me, I have a defacto subscription to Quicken since I upgrade
every year anyway.

"XS11E" wrote in message news:XnsA7DE6CA36F6...@127.0.0.1...

[Taxed and Spent]

On 8/27/2017 11:30 PM, JohnA wrote:
>>> Except my Word installed on my PC doesn't expire. I can chooose not
> to have the subscription version
>
> Are you suggesting that any subscription based software product must have
> non-subscription based alternatives to be viable? According to Gartner,
> more than 80% of software vendors will change their business model to
> subscription by 2020
> (http://www.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/moving-to-a-software-subscription-model/).
> Can you guarantee that Microsoft will always have a non-subscription based
> model alternative available to customers?

This will have a wonderful unintended consequence. Not so wonderful for
the vendors, but for the users.

If and when this happens, MILLIONS of users will become fixed at their
most recent software versions which are NOT subscription based.

No more annual updates, so-called feature improvements, etc. Just
solid, working software that will last.

Who needs all the bells and whistles added each year to convince (scam)
users into spending more money for a newer version?

WORD, Excel, even Quicken - just leave them alone! They work.

Can't speak to the downloading of information from financial
institutions, though. But I doubt most people use or really need that.
I do not.

[danbrown]

Are you BSing me??? That's one of the most valuable features of Quicken. It even allowed me to detect a fraudulent use of my wife's credit card in SUCH a timely manner, that the cops knew were the crooks would be and were able to arrest them.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 02:37:09 -0400, "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org>
wrote:

>>> That would be easy if there was a different program, there isn't, not
>one that works. If you know of one, please let us know.
>
>I don't which is why I use Quicken and would pay an annual subscription
>without hesitation. On the other hand, that's me and others might find a
>spreadsheet to be a viable alternative for their needs. One needs to decide
>if the use of Quicken is worth it before purchasing the subscription.
>Practically for me, I have a defacto subscription to Quicken since I upgrade
>every year anyway.

Just curious, why do you upgrade *every* year? Since there are usually
very few and very minor changes each year, I usually upgrade only
every second or third year.

Of course that my change in the future with the new owners. We'll see.

[Taxed and Spent]

my last upgrade was from Q99 to Q2016. I probably could have gotten Q99
to work properly on my new Win10 machine, but what the heck.

[John Pollard]

"Taxed and Spent" wrote

Who needs all the bells and whistles added each year to convince (scam)
users into spending more money for a newer version?

Can't speak to the downloading of information from financial
institutions, though. But I doubt most people use or really need that.
I do not.

---------------------------------------------------

Another example of a user ignorantly pretending that products should contain
only the features that they like. A logically and economically impossible
pretense.

Downloading transactions is one of the most popular and demanded functions
in Quicken.

What are bells and whistles to one user are essential features to others.

[Your post does not make it clear that you understand that subscription
versions of Quicken will NOT prevent users from manually maintaining their
Quicken data if they elect not to renew their subscriptions: hence the
Subject of this discussion is now false. Further: many Quicken users have
been begging for Quicken to become subscription software ... for years.]

[Sharx35]

Ken, some people have more money than brains--that would explain why
they upgrade QUicken every year, trade in their vehicle every year, etc..

[Sharx35]

Downloading of share prices IS something I do appreciate--it used to be
a giant PITA manually keying in share prices, even if I only did it monthly.

[Sharx35]

I log on, for free, to my banks almost every day--that way I noted that
someone in Brazil fraudulently used one of my CC numbers. No need for
Quicken downloads for that purpose.

[Sharx35]

I defend Taxed and Spent's comments about downloading TRANSACTIONS. I
prefer to do that manually as I continually read about posters' problems
with errors and omissions in that procedure. I DO, though, download
share prices several times a day.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 11:23:45 -0600, Sharx35 <sha...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I defend Taxed and Spent's comments about downloading TRANSACTIONS. I
>prefer to do that manually as I continually read about posters' problems
>with errors and omissions in that procedure.

I know nothing about why other people have problems doing it, but I
can state that I * never* have any problems with it.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 11:22:09 -0600, Sharx35 <sha...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I log on, for free, to my banks almost every day--that way I noted that
>someone in Brazil fraudulently used one of my CC numbers. No need for
>Quicken downloads for that purpose.

"Need" is too strong a word of course, but a single Quicken download
gets me all the transactions for all my banks, brokerage accounts,
etc. It's much easier and I greatly prefer it that way; no "need" to
log onto multiple web sites.

And Quicken having been updated as a result of doing this, the monthly
reconciliation of each account is extremely easy; it takes just a few
seconds to do in Quicken

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 11:19:02 -0600, Sharx35 <sha...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

LOL! Yes, I wish I had enough money to do the same. I'd especially
like to get a new car every year. But I don't; I typically keep a car
for 15-20 years.


But there's usually a big difference between a new release of Quicken
and a new car. Cars get new improved features much more often than
Quicken does.

[Taxed and Spent]

I get e-mails for all my cc transactions - so spotting fraud is easy and
timely.

[Taxed and Spent]

I do it manually so when I reconcile each account I am actually
performing an audit. How many people automatically download
transactions and just accept them as accurate?

I am not a day trader, however.

[Sherlock]

As you upgraded from Q99 to Q2016, I'll try to explain how we take
advantage of the ability to import transactions.

We attempt to enter most transactions before we import data from our
financial institutions. When we do import transactions from the
financial institutions, Quicken usually matches the imported
transactions to the appropriate transactions we have entered. When we
accept these transactions, they are marked as cleared (and some
occasionally useful data from the financial institution is
automatically added). If a downloaded transaction does not match an
existing transaction, we determine how to best resolve the issue.

We usually download and import transactions from 8 Direct Connect
financial institutions (20 accounts) daily. At this time, we have only
one fairly active Web Connect account (of 15 accounts across 6
institutions) that we download and import daily using a browser. We do
not use the Express Web Connect connection method. We do not allow
Quicken to automatically accept imported transactions.

We download account statements as they become available and reconcile
using "Use Paper Statement". We do not use "Use Online Balance".

By downloading and importing transactions from financial institutions
daily, we're able to detect and resolve issues sooner.

No one can tell you "how many people automatically download
transactions and just accept them as accurate?" but many users do
appear to be attempting use Quicken as an aggregator of financial data
pulled from multiple institutions.

[Taxed and Spent]

Sounds great. But why do you need to always upgrade Quicken to do so?
Can't they just make it work right and be done with it?

[danbrown]

There's days when, between my wife and I, I'd get 2 dozen emails ... I'll stick with download.

[Sherlock]

A significant portion of the price we pay for the upgrade offsets the
continued cost of maintaining the Online Services accessible by the
program and Support. We do not have to upgrade Quicken if we do not
use any Online Services or Support.

The whole point of this thread, started in February, was that Quicken
Inc announced they planned to change the model in a manner that would
prevent users from maintaining their data files when their subscription
for the product expired. However, in early August, Quicken Inc.
announced that subscribers would be allowed to maintain their data
files when their subscription for the product expired.

Assuming Quicken Inc. decides to implement the same subscription model
they are using for Canadian Quicken 2017 for US Quicken 2018, the only
apparent difference will be that the subscription for Online Services
and Support is reduced from about 3 years to 1 year.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 16:54:49 -0700, Taxed and Spent
<nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:


>Sounds great. But why do you need to always upgrade Quicken to do so?
>Can't they just make it work right and be done with it?

Not if they want to continue to make money.

[Taxed and Spent]

Bingo!

[Taxed and Spent]

That is where a rule and subfolder would come in handy.

[char...@tzymail.com]

Sherlock,

I missed most of the early posts in this, but what is the Quicken New
Subscription Model" What does it do and how does it affect use of the normal
Quicken Deluke?

Just need a bit of information.

Thanks
Charlie

******************************************************
Charliech

[Sherlock]

On 2017-08-29 18:18:38 +0000, char...@TZYmail.com said:

Sherlock,

I missed most of the early posts in this, but what is the Quicken New

Subscription Model"  What does it do and how does it affect use of the normal

Quicken Deluke?

Just need a bit of information.

Thanks

Charlie

If you haven't already, you may want to review: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they

Assuming Quicken Inc. decides to use the same model they're using in Canada in the US, the only product impact appears to be that access to Online Services will expire in one year as opposed to about three years in the current US model. Online Services include:

  

  Import of data from financial instituions (Direct Connect, Web Connect, and Express Web Connect)

  Download of stock quotes

  Mobile

  Bill pay

  Uploading portfolio information from Quicken to Quicken.com

  Live Support

  Software patches and updates

[char...@tzymail.com]

Thanks for the update. I guess we just have to way and see what move they make.

Charlie

******************************************************
Charliech

[Andrew]

XS11E wrote:
> "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org> wrote:
>
>> if you don't want to use Quicken, export your data and use a
>> different program.
>

> That would be easy if there was a different program, there isn't, not
> one that works. If you know of one, please let us know.
>

> I've tried most I could find and found no other to be satisfactory.
>

Time for me to post this list of 'alternatives' that I maintain for
potential future use....

********************************************************************

AceMoney
<http://www.mechcad.net/products/acemoney/personal-finance-software-quicken-alternative.shtml>

GnuCash <http://www.gnucash.org/>
platform portability (Windows, Linux, and OS X)
open source (build and patch if necessary)
price (free)

jGnash <http://sourceforge.net/projects/jgnash/>

KMyMoney https://kmymoney.org/KMyMoney
platform portability (Windows, Linux, and OS X)
open source (build and patch if necessary)
price (free)

Mint <https://www.mint.com/>

MoneyDance <http://infinitekind.com/moneydance>

MoneySpire <http://www.moneyspire.com/>
2017 is supposedly much better, although import problems still exist

MoneyWiz <http://moneywizapp.com/>

PocketMoney <http://www.catamount.com/pmd.html>

NetStock: http://www.splitcycle.com/Products/Netstock
Not a Quicken alternative. The program may be used to replace or
supplement Quicken quote fetching functionality.


********************************************************************


--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Regards -

- Andrew

[nob...@nada.com]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 02:30:33 -0400, "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org>

wrote:

>>> Except my Word installed on my PC doesn't expire. I can chooose not
>to have the subscription version
>
>Are you suggesting that any subscription based software product must have
>non-subscription based alternatives to be viable?

Not what I said at all. I said I now have a choice. If it changed to
subscription only and the price wasn't commensurate with my level of
use. I'd find something else. I only use Quicken for checking and
credit cards. I have no need of other services like wealth tracking or
portfolio management, so it's value to me is less than to someone who
uses those features.

> According to Gartner,
>more than 80% of software vendors will change their business model to
>subscription by 2020
>(http://www.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/moving-to-a-software-subscription-model/).
>Can you guarantee that Microsoft will always have a non-subscription based
>model alternative available to customers?
>

>wrote in message news:kg64qctvkk34k7qvr...@4ax.com...
>
>On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 16:43:31 -0400, "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org>
>wrote:
>
>>>> No one else finds this aspect of the new subscription model concerning?
>>
>>No, that's how a subscription works. The data is yours but the
>>manipulation, aggregation and use of the data by the Qucken program is only
>>as good as the subscription lasts. No one would argue that once their
>>Microsoft Word subscription expires, they should just continue using Word
>>as
>>if nothing had happened, do they? Why is Quicken any different? Quicken
>>is
>>a lot more than just Internet downloads... if you don't want to use

>>Quicken,
>>export your data and use a different program.
>>
>>
>

>Except my Word installed on my PC doesn't expire. I can chooose not

>to have the subscription version.
>
>>wrote in message
>>news:31fe2f0d-e9f1-4730...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>>Although a steep price increase is concerning, my primary reason for
>>posting
>>was the fact that your data file will become read only should your
>>subscription lapse. The confirmation of subscription will be done using the
>>Intuit ID. So you're continued ability to enter data will rely on
>>successfully phoning home to Quicken Inc periodically.
>>
>>No one else finds this aspect of the new subscription model concerning?

[nob...@nada.com]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 11:20:44 -0600, Sharx35 <sha...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Doesn'tyour brokerage account do the for you? I can log onto mine and
see everything for today on one pafe and summary of current account
status on another. Two clicks and done.

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

>I know nothing about why other people have problems doing it, but I
>can state that I * never* have any problems with it.

Same here. I have downloaded hundreds of transactions a week for more than 10
years. Other that the occasional FI connection issue and duplicate transactions,
I've never had a significant problems. Would hate to do that manually.

[Arnie Goetchius]

Yes, definitely agree to that. I download daily from 15 accounts split between Banks, Credit Cards
and Investing. It would be impossible to do that manually.

[dougc...@gmail.com]

Office Depot is advertising a 2-year subscription for Quicken 2018 Premier for $119.99.

[bob0...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, October 7, 2017 at 8:48:09 AM UTC-4, dougc...@gmail.com wrote:
> Office Depot is advertising a 2-year subscription for Quicken 2018 Premier for $119.99.

I only find Quicken 2017 listed on Office Depot.

[Ken Blake]

Same with Amazon, but they have a book on Quicken 2018: "Quicken 2018
for Windows: The Official Guide."

[stev...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 9:25:18 PM UTC-5, John Pollard wrote:
> <nob...@nada.com wrote >You are only able to determine whether Quicken's
> price is excessive to you.
>
> >
> >The "market" for financial software is the only place where appropriate
> >prices can be determined. Just because you do not find sufficient benefit
> >to
> >cause you to pay the price, does not mean others share your opinion.
> >Neither
> >Quicken nor any other product/service can afford to set their prices so
> >that
> >every buyer, and potential buyer, will believe those prices are worth
> >paying.
> >
> >Your personal choices can only speak to your own opinion - they can not
> >speak for other's personal choices.
> >
> >If you do not believe Quicken provides you with benefits that are worth the
> >price, you are welcome to exercise your options: use another financial
> >software product; use a substitute product (such as Excel); commission
> >someone to create a product for you; create your own product (practically
> >everyone claims to be a "coder" today - but none have been able to create a
> >better product than Quicken ... should make you think); or use pencil and
> >paper.
> >
> >Quicken must attempt to choose a price that maximizes their profits - which
> >requires providing the combination of features and cost that produces the
> >best financial result ... which causes enough customers to pay for the
> >product to cause it to remain a viable product.
> >
> >Customer price preference comprises only one of the two parts of the
> >"right"
> >price - if customers of a product are not willing to pay for the features
> >they want ... one way or the other, they will not get those features from
> >that product.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, the free market will determine the price for the product, but
> they take a big risk with home users simply wanting to manage a couple
> of checking accounts and credit cards. An increase as large as
> proposed will push many of us out, to the bank bill pay services and
> other software, like MoneySpire. These may take a little more effort
> but with the small number of accounts and transactions it's not a
> substantial burden. This is the way we used to do it before CheckFree.
> I hope they will reconsider the pricing. Perhaps have several options
> for cheaper versions if you don't want investment or tax tracking or
> allerts or budgetting (as Money Spire does now). Just basic household
> management.
>
> I've been using Quicken since MS-DOS and would love to just keep it
> going but not at 2.5 times current cost.
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> It seems you missed the point.
>
> Neither you, nor any other user, is in a position to determine whether an
> estimated future subscription product will be successful in the U.S. ... and
> you should not be trying to pretend that you can do so.
>
> Individual users will make that determination on their own, and the net
> effect of their decisions - which can only be known sometime well after the
> the new pricing is in effect - will be the deciding factor. No user should
> be foolish enough to rely significantly on the estimates of other users, who
> have no meaningful insights. The value of a product or service is 100% an
> individual decision - and not all users/potential-users will value a given
> product the same. Just because you do not think you will like the result
> means nothing to determining whether other users will find the product/price
> acceptable.
>
> Further: I see no evidence that the experiment in Canada (which is priced in
> Canadian dollars for the only two Canadian versions) indicates that the new
> price for a subscription to Quicken in the U.S. will be 2.5 times the
> current cost for any U.S. user - it's more likely that the subscription
> price for U.S. users will be cheaper for those who typically upgrade every
> year, and "slightly" higher for those who typically upgrade every three
> years.
>
> I suggest you recheck your premises.

What a douchebag you sound like.

[scjoh...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 2:53:52 PM UTC-5, platea...@gmail.com wrote:
> Quicken Inc recently announced a new subscription model. The subscription is for 1 year and the price point appears to be approximately 2.5 times what the current year versions sell for.
>
> More concerning than the price increase is your Quicken data will become read-only if you fail to renew the subscription.
>
> This new model is currently being test driven with the Canadian version of Quicken 2017 and, if nothing changes between now and the roll out of Quicken 2018, it will likely be the model for US versions of Quicken.
>
> To read the details of the subscription model, see the Quicken Canada Order Questions here:
>
> https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-canada-order-questions
>
> Here is an excerpt from the order questions FAQ with the info on what happens if your subscription expires:
>
> What happens when my Quicken subscription ends?
> When your Quicken subscription ends, you'll still be able to access, view, and export all of your financial data. You will never be blocked from accessing your financial history. However, Quicken will switch to a reduced functionality mode. In this mode, some features may be limited or unavailable. For example: •You can open existing data files and see all your existing data
> •You can view, edit and delete existing transactions—including attachments.
> •You can create, run, print and save reports.
> •You can export your data, make or restore a backup, and make a copy of a file.
> •You cannot access any Connected Services such as bank downloads, stock quotes, online bill pay, bill linking, credit score, or mobile sync.
> •You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry.
>
>
> There is a suggestion on the Quicken Community forum that Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying, with a lengthy discussion on the topic. That discussion has been closed to further comments, but you can still vote for the suggestion. Note - you will need to register for the forum to vote.
>
> https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all
>
> If you feel strongly about the new subscription model and would like to contact Quicken Inc CEO Eric Dunn, you can find the corporate headquarters address and phone number here:
>
> https://www.quicken.com/locations

I have not been very enthusiastic about Quicken 2017, however I have looked at alternatives and there is really nothing out there that works as well as Quicken. I have been a user since 1991. As to what price will Quicken 2018 will be, I believe we will just have to wait and see. You guys can argue until the cows come home. I would like a model that offers support if I need it, but to be completely trueful, alot of their inovations they have added over the years I ignore. I use Quicken in a way I feels gives me most control over my monthly expenses. I hope they stay in business and come up with a business model that will keep them in business. The guys that run Quicken now are the ones that ran Quicken before all the problems came the last few years, so maybe there is hope.

[curt.p...@gmail.com]

I've been with Quicken, then MS Money, then back to Quicken, for at least 10 years, probably 15. I'm recently retired, and I receive requests from the companies whose perpetual software packages I used to update as needed for monthly/annual subscriptions. There's Adobe, $600 a year; or Adobe Lightroom for $120 a year; plus MS Office for $100 a year; and now Quicken for $50 - $100 a year; plus miscellaneous items like backup software, antivirus, antimalware, etc. I simply can't afford the equivalent of one month's SS income out of each year to pay for these subscriptions. I rolled back my Adobe CC Creative Suite to the last perpetual copy I had (CS5.5) and I now live within the parameters of what that software can do; I'm sticking with my perpetual license of Office 2015; I'm transitioning my photo collection from Lightroom to ACDSee Ultimate (though they're now testing a subscription model as an option).
I thought the previous model of a perpetual license that lost the ability for online updates after two years was fair. But the Quicken pricing for my current Business version is as much as the entire Microsoft Office Suite that includes Word, Excel, Access, Publisher, Outlook, 1TB of storage, and for 5 individuals. So Quicken's price for one product is way overpriced by comparison. I suppose it's in line with Adobe pricing, for anyone who doesn't think their pricing is predatory.
So I think my plan will be to stick with Quicken 2015 and enter my transactions manually (or download from each site using whatever file formats they offer). If Quicken 2017 still offers 2 years' of data I might try to get a copy of that and extend Quicken's lifetime another two years before going the manual entry route or going to another solution (Excel, etc.).
Perhaps the younger generation doesn't mind having a long list of monthly subscription fees for software, but that kind of nickel-and-diming (dollaring-and-hundred-dollaring) just smacks to me of more corporate monopolies running amok. I can't afford the cost of admission of any longer, so for my expected 20-year additional lifespan all these companies have lost a customer. But of course that's legitimately their choice and legitimately my choice. I suspect this new subscription model is the better way of going out of business than offering perpetual software, but time will tell. (Anyone else remember when software hadn't invented the tag perpetual because ALL of it was perpetual? It's a Brave New World, folks.)

[azal...@gmail.com]

I have noticed two main themes in this thread.

The first concerned the "fairness" of a subscription model. While I agree with the people that say this is a free market issue, part of the free-market equation is whether or not customers are treated fairly. I reject the notion that all economic transaction should be based on getting the most beneficial financial outcome. As a consultant, I was not determining my price on what would maximize income but was a reasonable amount, for both me and my clients. That may or may not be a good long-term business model, but regardless, for me it is a better business model (and if you cannot make money that way, find another business).

I reject the notion of "renting" software. Whether we are talking software or widgets, you make a product and I buy it. If it is a product where I no longer need your services to use the product, we are done. It is not fair to force me to "marry" you to continue to use that product.

The second theme mentioned is the lack of alternatives to Quicken. It is not true there are none. Gnucash is very comparable. It is different and took me a number of months to get used to. It is better in some ways and worse in others. The major disadvantage is it is far more difficult and limited in its ability to download transactions. But i am very glad I switched to it.

[David Arnstein]

In article <93a902bc-b438-420c...@googlegroups.com>,

<curt.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps the younger generation doesn't mind having a long list of
>monthly subscription fees for software,

The younger generation uses "free" solutions like Mint.

Me, I will stick with Quicken, provided my financial data stays private
(unlike Mint). Yes the price went way up this year but Quicken still
works for me.

But I am not of the younger generation. My priorities are different.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstei...@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

[David Arnstein]

In article <43756a54-3544-4ba4...@googlegroups.com>,

<azal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I reject the notion of "renting" software. Whether we are talking
>software or widgets, you make a product and I buy it. If it is a
>product where I no longer need your services to use the product, we are
>done. It is not fair to force me to "marry" you to continue to use that
>product.

I also have a strong preference for buying softare vs renting. It seems
to me that Quicken 2018 is not quite a rental. For all versions except
Starter, you can keep using the software after your subscription expires,
minus the online features. I am upgrading this week, and I will try to
confirm this after I install.

>The second theme mentioned is the lack of alternatives to Quicken. It
>is not true there are none. Gnucash is very comparable. It is
>different and took me a number of months to get used to. It is better
>in some ways and worse in others. The major disadvantage is it is far
>more difficult and limited in its ability to download transactions. But
>i am very glad I switched to it.

Gnucash is also my second choice after Quicken. If Quicken does something
really nasty, such as vacuuming up my financial data, then I too will
make the switch. But downloading is a very major problem. My best defense
against electronic theft is my habit of downloading transactions from
all of my banks, brokerages, etc. every 24 hours. I am not going to
stop. When I retire, perhaps I will be willing to do that chore manually.
But not now.

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

azal...@gmail.com wrote:

>I reject the notion of "renting" software. Whether we are talking software
>or widgets, you make a product and I buy it. If it is a product where I no
>longer need your services to use the product, we are done. It is not fair
>to force me to "marry" you to continue to use that product.

The problem for the creator of said product is that there is a very real cost to
providing bug fixes and reacting to changes in the operating environment (ie OS
updates). Building "forever support" into the up front price isn't economically
viable.

Note that I'm not talking feature updates. The problem is that with a mature
product like Quicken, you can't come up with enough reasonable feature updates
to provide enough sales revenue to keep the business going.

Then throw in the fact that people who use a desktop/laptop computer for
financial management are rapidly evaporating, and you are really stuck. I'm
hopeful that the new Quicken company will survive, but I'm not optimistic.

Guess I'd best dig up my last copy of Managing Your Money. Now where did that 5
1/4 inch floppy go?

[JWBRIT]

Quicken is now RANSOMEWARE, PAY OR LOSE FUNCTIONALITY! On top of that their current wait times are 21 minutes for chat, 41 minutes for phone = PAY OR NOT, POOR SUPPORT! Just hoping there will soon be a viable competitor to break this monopoly.

[Tx Holdem]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:53:52 PM UTC-6, platea...@gmail.com wrote:
> Quicken Inc recently announced a new subscription model. The subscription is for 1 year and the price point appears to be approximately 2.5 times what the current year versions sell for.

NEVER!

#resist

[Taxed and Spent]

On 10/25/2017 8:19 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
> azal...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I reject the notion of "renting" software. Whether we are talking software
>> or widgets, you make a product and I buy it. If it is a product where I no
>> longer need your services to use the product, we are done. It is not fair
>> to force me to "marry" you to continue to use that product.
>
> The problem for the creator of said product is that there is a very real cost to
> providing bug fixes and reacting to changes in the operating environment (ie OS
> updates). Building "forever support" into the up front price isn't economically
> viable.
>

a user is supposed to pay for bug fixes? They already paid for what was
supposed to be a bug free product.

[ntbr...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:53:52 PM UTC-6, platea...@gmail.com wrote:
> Quicken Inc recently announced a new subscription model. The subscription is for 1 year and the price point appears to be approximately 2.5 times what the current year versions sell for.
>

> More concerning than the price increase is your Quicken data will become read-only if you fail to renew the subscription.
>
> This new model is currently being test driven with the Canadian version of Quicken 2017 and, if nothing changes between now and the roll out of Quicken 2018, it will likely be the model for US versions of Quicken.
>
> To read the details of the subscription model, see the Quicken Canada Order Questions here:
>
> https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-canada-order-questions
>
> Here is an excerpt from the order questions FAQ with the info on what happens if your subscription expires:
>
> What happens when my Quicken subscription ends?
> When your Quicken subscription ends, you'll still be able to access, view, and export all of your financial data. You will never be blocked from accessing your financial history. However, Quicken will switch to a reduced functionality mode. In this mode, some features may be limited or unavailable. For example: •You can open existing data files and see all your existing data
> •You can view, edit and delete existing transactions—including attachments.
> •You can create, run, print and save reports.
> •You can export your data, make or restore a backup, and make a copy of a file.
> •You cannot access any Connected Services such as bank downloads, stock quotes, online bill pay, bill linking, credit score, or mobile sync.
> •You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry.
>
>
> There is a suggestion on the Quicken Community forum that Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying, with a lengthy discussion on the topic. That discussion has been closed to further comments, but you can still vote for the suggestion. Note - you will need to register for the forum to vote.
>
> https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all
>
> If you feel strongly about the new subscription model and would like to contact Quicken Inc CEO Eric Dunn, you can find the corporate headquarters address and phone number here:
>
> https://www.quicken.com/locations

I have been a user of quicken for the last 26 years.
But to have my arm twisted to pay more every year weather I want to or not this is really bad customer services.
I admit that I use a limited features of quicken where I only sync with my banks and credit cards to view future bills. Not worth commiting $69 annually.
I will have to depend on my bank "Profile" service to aggregate data for other institution. Many people have survived without quicken and I will have to do that and abandon quicken.
I will not be a vendor hostage.

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 12:54:13 -0700 (PDT), azal...@gmail.com wrote:


>I reject the notion of "renting" software. Whether we are talking software or widgets, you make a product and I buy it.

Software and widgets are *very* different in this regard. Software is
never (almost never?) sold. You can not buy it. What you buy is a
license to use it. With some software, that license is forever, with
other software it's for a fixed length of time.

Even with freeware, what you get is not the product, but a license to
use it.

Like you, I greatly prefer a license to use a product forever. But we
don't always get what we want. If the cost isn't too high, I buy a
license for a limited period, and Quicken won't be the only such
product I've bought such a license for. Most of my security software
is like that.

And by the way, although you can buy some widgets outright, you can
also buy limited-period licenses for some. Two examples come to mind:
you can rent an apartment or a house and you can lease a car.

[cmacm...@cmacmillan.com]

On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 12:08:51 PM UTC-5, John Pollard wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Another example of a user ignorantly pretending that products should contain
> only the features that they like. A logically and economically impossible
> pretense.
>
> Downloading transactions is one of the most popular and demanded functions
> in Quicken.
>
> What are bells and whistles to one user are essential features to others.
>
> [Your post does not make it clear that you understand that subscription
> versions of Quicken will NOT prevent users from manually maintaining their
> Quicken data if they elect not to renew their subscriptions: hence the
> Subject of this discussion is now false. Further: many Quicken users have
> been begging for Quicken to become subscription software ... for years.]

It's also one of the most buggy and problematic with continual failures.

The pricing is out and works out to 3x the cost, full shutdown of usability with subscription lapse for the base version (read-only mode), and seemingly no added functionality. I was a Quicken supporter. I am no longer a user after today and have moved to PersonalCapital.com - not ideal, but along the right lines.

[Sherlock]

This part of your statement certainly appears to be false: "full

shutdown of usability with subscription lapse for the base version
(read-only mode)"

If you haven't already, you may want to review:

https://www.quicken.com/support/what-quicken-data-access-guarantee

[JohnA]

Hi Ken,

>> Just curious, why do you upgrade *every* year?

1. Like anything in software, the latest version gets the most attention,
both in features and fixes
2. I want to support Quicken's development process.

>> Since there are usually very few and very minor changes each year

I suspect these are "few and very minor changes" that you care about or
affect your typical usage, there usually is a list of changes for each
release that is more than one or two minor changes.

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
news:12i8qcp0eiesp3seb...@4ax.com...

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 02:37:09 -0400, "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org>
wrote:

>>> That would be easy if there was a different program, there isn't, not
>one that works. If you know of one, please let us know.
>

>I don't which is why I use Quicken and would pay an annual subscription
>without hesitation. On the other hand, that's me and others might find a
>spreadsheet to be a viable alternative for their needs. One needs to
>decide
>if the use of Quicken is worth it before purchasing the subscription.
>Practically for me, I have a defacto subscription to Quicken since I
>upgrade
>every year anyway.


Just curious, why do you upgrade *every* year? Since there are usually
very few and very minor changes each year, I usually upgrade only
every second or third year.

Of course that my change in the future with the new owners. We'll see.

[JohnA]

Some people can't see beyond the end of their nose...

"Sharx35" wrote in message news:oo1j21$6un$1...@dont-email.me...

On 2017-08-28 10:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 02:37:09 -0400, "JohnA" <Jo...@discard-theatas.org>
> wrote:
>
>>>> That would be easy if there was a different program, there isn't, not
>> one that works. If you know of one, please let us know.
>>
>> I don't which is why I use Quicken and would pay an annual subscription
>> without hesitation. On the other hand, that's me and others might find a
>> spreadsheet to be a viable alternative for their needs. One needs to
>> decide
>> if the use of Quicken is worth it before purchasing the subscription.
>> Practically for me, I have a defacto subscription to Quicken since I
>> upgrade
>> every year anyway.
>
> Just curious, why do you upgrade *every* year? Since there are usually
> very few and very minor changes each year, I usually upgrade only
> every second or third year.
>
> Of course that my change in the future with the new owners. We'll see.

Ken, some people have more money than brains--that would explain why
they upgrade QUicken every year, trade in their vehicle every year, etc..

[JohnA]

>> a user is supposed to pay for bug fixes? They already paid for what was
supposed to be a bug free product.

Where did you see it advertised as a bug free product? BTW, for those who
don't understand software, there is no such thing.

"Taxed and Spent" wrote in message news:ost1tm$ea4$1...@dont-email.me...

[Taxed and Spent]

On 10/27/2017 5:25 AM, JohnA wrote:
>>> a user is supposed to pay for bug fixes? They already paid for what was
> supposed to be a bug free product.
>
> Where did you see it advertised as a bug free product? BTW, for those who
> don't understand software, there is no such thing.

They advertise that it performs certain functions and has certain
features. A bug means they failed to deliver as advertised.

Buyer should not have to pay twice.

[JohnA]

>> They advertise that it performs certain functions and has certain
features. A bug means they failed to deliver as advertised.

It can mean that, but not necessarily... See http://www.linfo.org/bug.html
for a dated but useful information on the topic:

"It is likely that there are bugs in virtually all useful computer programs.
This is because of (1) the huge number of lines of code required for such
programs, (2) the complexity of programming and the consequent ease of
making errors and (3) the difficulty of detecting some types of errors. For
example, a modern operating system typically contains several million lines
of code"

A good attitude to have is that when one buys a software product, assume it
has some bugs and plan for how you want to deal with the ones that affect
your usage...

"Taxed and Spent" wrote in message news:osvcd7$pn0$1...@dont-email.me...

[Sharx35]

The ones who upgrade every year and the ones with more money than
brains. No doubt, they also waste their money on bottled water,
name-brand clothes, frequently trading in their vehicles. Little wonder
so many file for bankruptcy.

[Taxed and Spent]

Hey, if those dopes didn't upgrade every year, the price would have to
go up for when we do upgrade.

Thanks for carrying the water, guys. Of course, maybe Q would stop
adding all the silly features and stick to the core.

[David Arnstein]

In article <osvqji$cjt$1...@dont-email.me>,

Taxed and Spent <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>Hey, if those dopes didn't upgrade every year, the price would have to
>go up for when we do upgrade.
>
>Thanks for carrying the water, guys. Of course, maybe Q would stop
>adding all the silly features and stick to the core.

You are welcome! I upgrade every year because I like Quicken and I want
to see what the new features are. For me, it is a combination of loyalty,
curiosity, and play. I freely admit that this is an unwise use of my
money.

Hooray for Quicken!

[Taxed and Spent]

I have my own hobbies too, so no problem with yours. Enjoy.

[Sharx35]

Yowza!

[Arnie Goetchius]

Having been retired for over 20 years, I would still never do updates manually. There is nothing
like having the daily downloads of 15 accounts ready to review while having breakfast coffee.

[matthew...@gmail.com]

So if I continue with my Quicken 2016, when is the end-of-life for that version? Usually they kill the transaction downloads after a few years.

[Lyle Bickley]

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 8:30:53 PM UTC-7, matthew...@gmail.com wrote:
> So if I continue with my Quicken 2016, when is the end-of-life for that version? Usually they kill the transaction downloads after a few years.

I upgraded to Quicken Deluxe 2017 a few months ago. I would like to know it's end-of-life date, too...

[John Pollard]

"Lyle Bickley" wrote

I upgraded to Quicken Deluxe 2017 a few months ago. I would like to know
it's end-of-life date, too...

----------------------------------------------------------

https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-discontinuation-policy

[Porter Smith]

Lyle Bickley <lbic...@bickleywest.com> wrote in
news:2316acaa-697a-4d6c...@googlegroups.com:

30 April, 2020

The product will still work after that date, and you can add transactions
manually, generate reports etc, but the online features stop working.

Here's the full schedule

https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-discontinuation-policy

[Fred Jacobowitz]

Thank you for the clarification; the new model is just like the old model with regard to being able to add transactions manually.


https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-discontinuation-policy

What Quicken services will be discontinued?
The following services will be discontinued:

Online bill pay
Downloading financial data from your bank, credit union, credit card, brokerage, 401(k) or mutual fund accounts
Downloading stock quotes, news headlines and other financial information into Quicken
Uploading portfolio information from Quicken to Quicken.com
Live Support
Software patches and updates

[Bartt]

If I follow the link in the original post (about Q Canada 2017), and examine the "What happens when my Quicken subscription ends" section, I no longer see language about not being able to manually enter transactions.

So, the discussion headline is no longer accurate?

[Sherlock]

The discussion headline was accurate until August 3rd when Quicken
announced their change in policy:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all&topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Breply_id%5D=18851715#reply_18851715

[John Pollard]

"Sherlock" wrote

The discussion headline was accurate until August 3rd when Quicken
announced their change in policy:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all&topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Breply_id%5D=18851715#reply_18851715

------------------------------------------------------------

As also noted in my August 20 post in this discussion.

[John Pollard]

plateau.eyes wrote

Quicken Inc recently announced a new subscription model. The subscription is
for 1 year and the price point appears to be approximately 2.5 times what
the current year versions sell for.

More concerning than the price increase is your Quicken data will become
read-only if you fail to renew the subscription.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

As has already been noted in this discussion, important parts of some
complaints regarding the new subscription model either were incorrect when
posted, or have since become incorrect. The first of the above comments is
just plain wrong for many, if not most, Quicken users. The second comment
became untrue back in August 2017.

If you want to read more about the new subscription model in its current
state, directly from the pen of Eric Dunn, Quicken's CEO, click on this
link:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/from-eric-dunn-ceo-of-quicken-letter-to-the-quicken-community-about-the-membership-plan-november-2017