Discover update to EWC+ ??

[Tom Pfeifer]

I'm running the latest subscription version of Quicken Premier (R43.32) on Windows 11

I got the prompt this morning to update the connection method for my Discover accounts. I have 2 Discover accounts; the Discover credit card, and the Discover Online Savings account. I went through the same procedure as I have done recently (with success) with both Chase and BOA.

However, with Discover it didn't go so good. I started out with Direct Connect connections on both accounts and ended up with just plain EWC on both (no + as in EWC+). And I'm also not getting 2 credit card transactions that should have downloaded today. The Online Balance is correct, but the 2 most recent cleared transactions (as seen online at their web site) are missing.

Is anyone else seeing this happen? Any information or suggestions are appreciated. If not, I'll try again periodically to see if this situation self corrects, and/or contact Quicken Support if needed.

[John Pollard]

Yes, others - including me - are seeing the same thing. At this point, it's not clear that there is a problem - other than the natural disappointment at getting EWC instead of EWC+.

At this point, I'm not sure that Discover ever intended to convert Direct Connect users to Express Web Connect+. Some users appear to have received an email (or some other information) about the Discover change, but I never received any external notification from Discover or Quicken. I have however seen several references (including in Quicken) to a change in the Discover Connection Method being necessary.

The wording that appeared in Quicken regarding the requirement to change Connection Methods looked very similar to (if not exactly the same as) the wording used for Chase and BofA, etc. But the result was EWC instead of EWC+. At the least, I consider "wording" to be misleading, including the button to "Reauthorize" - there is no "reauthorization" required for Express Web Connect.

Nevertheless, when I messaged Discover not long ago this afternoon, they claimed that the switch to EWC (not to EWC+) was intended, and that the switch was required by Quicken. It is literally impossible for Quicken to force a financial institution to use a specific Connection Method. While Quicken could unilaterally refuse to continue offering a given Connection Method (such as Direct Connect), Quicken could not mandate that any financial institution use a specific alternative Connection Method (and it's extremely difficult to imagine why Quicken would even try to force a financial institution to use EWC instead of EWC+, for example).

If I were you, I would register a complaint with Discover, and follow any Discover discussions in the Quicken Community. There is already at least one Discover EWC+ discussions going on in the Community, here: https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7920428/problem-reauthorizing-discover-accounts .

[John Pollard]

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:28:52 PM UTC-5, John Pollard wrote:

> The wording that appeared in Quicken regarding the requirement to change Connection Methods looked very similar to (if not exactly the same as) the wording used for Chase and BofA, etc. But the result was EWC instead of EWC+. At the least, I consider "wording" to be misleading, including the button to "Reauthorize" - there is no "reauthorization" required for Express Web Connect.

Interesting. I had a copy of my Quicken file that still had not been updated to the new Connection Method(s) for BofA, Chase or Discover. The wording that originally appeared when a One Step Update was initiated for those financial institutions, appears to have been changed. There is no longer any mention of changing/transitioning/upgrading to a new and improved and more secure connection method.

Now the messages for the individual financial institutions are preceded by a general message (apparently from Quicken) saying, "The following financial institutions are transitioning to a DIFFERENT [emphasis mine] connection method. To continue downloading, please update the connection for the following:"

That Quicken message is followed by rows of text with Reauthorize buttons for each financial institution/user-id - some of the financial institutions have no additional informational text; but Discover's text says, "Update your Discover Bank accounts by 9/26/2022, after which you will no longer be able to connect using your current connection method". While there is still a "Reauthorize" button for Discover, the descriptive text for any/all financial institutions no longer mentions anything about the replacement connection method being better or more secure. [BofA and Chase had no descriptive text at all.]

[Tom Pfeifer]

It sure looks like you are correct that the EWC connection method (and not EWC+) is what we are going to get for Discover accounts by intent (Discover's intent), not by some bug or mistake. Right now, I am still still waiting for my Discover Card transactions to resume being downloaded again after the connection change. So far, there are 2 cleared transactions that should normally have been downloaded, but were not. That was the case immediately after the connection change. There are now several pending transactions that should be cleared tomorrow or very soon, so I'm waiting to see what happens with those.

If there's still a problem then, I'll contact Discover.
Thanks for both of your responses. Much appreciated.

[John Pollard]

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:28:52 PM UTC-5, John Pollard wrote:

> If I were you, I would register a complaint with Discover ....".

Just to expand on my previous comment a bit: there are at least two reasons I suggest complaining to Discover.
1.) Overall, EWC is a decidedly lesser Connection Method than EWC+; in reliability, accuracy and security. Also I believe EWC+ is meaningfully less expensive to the financial institution than Direct Connect (though likely decidedly more expensive than EWC). EWC+ is also likely more secure than Direct Connect.
2.) Discover is a member of the Financial Data Exchange, the group that designed the specifications that are being used for EWC+. I believe Discover is paying for that membership, suggesting that they believe that FDX (FDX=Financial Data Exchange, and the specifications and API's they created to support what Quicken calls EWC+) is a legitimate/viable Connection Method. [FDX is not just for Quicken: any financial institution can provide data to any financial software using FDX.]

[Here's a link to the names of the organizations that are Financial Data Exchange members: https://www.financialdataexchange.org/FDX/The%20Consortium/FDX/The-Consortium/Members.aspx ]

[Sherlock]

In my opinion, EWC+ is likely to be less secure than Direct Connect.

[John Pollard]

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 12:04:56 PM UTC-5, Sherlock wrote:
> On 2022-09-29 14:08:19 +0000, John Pollard said:

> > 1.) Overall, EWC is a decidedly lesser Connection Method than EWC+; in
> > reliability, accuracy and security. Also I believe EWC+ is meaningfully
> > less expensive to the financial institution than Direct Connect (though
> > likely decidedly more expensive than EWC). EWC+ is also likely more
> > secure than Direct Connect.

> In my opinion, EWC+ is likely to be less secure than Direct Connect.

This isn't a subject about which I have much knowledge, but my comment was based on my understanding that EWC+ handles credentials more securely than Direct Connect by not exposing user passwords.

Can you elaborate a bit on your concern(s) about EWC+ security?

[Sherlock]

because with EWC+, as with EWC, at least two additional parties have
access to our data.

The risk associated with a potential exposure of Direct Connect
credentials may be mitigated using MFA.

[John Pollard]

Thanks.

[Tom Pfeifer]

Thanks for the information. My main and immediate concern has been to get the Discover Card connection functioning properly again (downloading transactions again). When the Discover Card account continued to not download transactions after the connection change, while the Discover Online Savings account DID, I deactivated just the Discover Card connection, and then re-added/linked that account, but this time chose "Discover Card" as the FI (rather than Discover Bank). That worked, although I had to deal with a handful of duplicate transactions, but no big deal.

What threw me a little bit was that the Online Balance for the Discover Card WAS being updated while using Discover Bank as the FI, even though transactions were not being downloaded. So in any case, both Discover accounts are now working and using EWC, but are using 2 different FI. I guess I should have realized that, but then again, the Discover Card account did show up as a detected account (along with Discover Online Savings) when I was originally doing this.....strange stuff.

[John Pollard]

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 6:36:08 AM UTC-5, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

> What threw me a little bit was that the Online Balance for the Discover Card WAS being updated ... even though transactions were not being downloaded.

I would not let that throw you. While it is certainly wrong, when the Online Balance downloaded to Quicken is not the actual balance of the account at the financial institution ; it has happened multiple times with other financial institutions in the past, and it is highly unlikely that it was ever a Quicken problem.

There is no direct link between downloaded transactions and the downloaded Online Balance - and Quicken plays no part in the "downloading" of either. The downloaded Online Balance is a separate amount, which is NOT computed - by the financial institution, or any other party to the download process. The presence of an Online Balance in a download does not require that there be any transactions in the download (even when there are no transactions available to download, there should be an Online Balance in the download). When Quicken receives that downloaded Online Balance amount, Quicken simply stores it, then presents it when the Quicken account register is displayed.

[Jeff Airplaj]

Has there been any news in the last 2 months regarding EWC+ connection to Discover?

I see Discover has external session linking on Mint. Is there a cost to the financial institution for Quicken to set up EWC+?

I'm faced with a decision to find an alternative to Quicken, or to move my banking somewhere that is already set up for EWC+.

[Tom Pfeifer]

As far as I know, Discover is not going to implement EWC+. But the transaction downloads for my 2 Discover accounts are working fine with EWC, which is all I need.

[John Pollard]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 1:44:30 PM UTC-6, Jeff Airplaj wrote:

> On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 10:03:33 PM UTC-4, John Pollard wrote:

> > There is no direct link between downloaded transactions and the downloaded Online Balance - and Quicken plays no part in the "downloading" of either. The downloaded Online Balance is a separate amount, which is NOT computed - by the financial institution, or any other party to the download process. The presence of an Online Balance in a download does not require that there be any transactions in the download (even when there are no transactions available to download, there should be an Online Balance in the download). When Quicken receives that downloaded Online Balance amount, Quicken simply stores it, then presents it when the Quicken account register is displayed.

> Has there been any news in the last 2 months regarding EWC+ connection to Discover?

Not that I know of. What sort of news were you expecting? If you're thinking of Discover's plans, you'll need to ask them.

> I see Discover has external session linking on Mint. Is there a cost to the financial institution for Quicken to set up EWC+?

I don't understand the connection between Mint and Quicken and EWC+. I'm sure there is a cost to the financial institution to implement EWC+ ... but I believe that cost is very likely much less than the cost of Direct Connect.

> I'm faced with a decision to find an alternative to Quicken, or to move my banking somewhere that is already set up for EWC+.

I don't understand that connection either.
There are no "alternatives" to Quicken unless you have very primitive needs.
You have not provided any information regarding what is wrong with Discover and EWC.
While I suspect that in time, most financial institutions that are currently using Direct Connect will switch to EWC+, I'm not sure there is any need to beat the rush.