Software Marketing Resource - August
S. Housley
I just posted August's SMR news at
http://www.softwaremarketingresource.com/author-resource-newsletter29.html
If you wish to subscribe please send a blank email with "subscribe" as the
subject line to
webm...@softwaremarketingresource.com
Thanks and have a great weekend!
Sharon Housely
NotePage, Inc.
http://www.notepage.net
Dan
news:bgf48...@drn.newsguy.com...
Tic toc tic toc tic toc... Where's Mike?
Ed Guy
It's a long weekend in Canada - I'm heading out first thing tomorrow AM - maybe
Mike went already.
OR maybe he's decided to stop trying to attract her attention. Remember this
post of mine last month:
> I'm still waiting for the author of tSubmit to explain what he means by "Maybe
> you just want Sharon to notice you?" in his ad hominem response to me.
> On reflection I wondered if it was a freudian slip on his part, since he is
> obviously desparately trying to get her attention by appending his post to
> anything she posts.
> And a few days later:
> Isn't the silence deafening? Hands up those who think I nailed his motive?
> Maybe I'll repost this every time he tags his standard "Poor Me, Sharon hates
me"
> post to somebody else's post.
Since,as I noted, I'm heading out of town for the long weekend here's the
thread on Google Groups:
--
Ed Guy P.Eng,CDP,MIEE
Information Technology Consultant
Internet: e...@guysoftware.com
http://www.guysoftware.com
"Check out HELLLP!, WinHelp author tool for WinWord 2.0 through 8.0,
PlanBee Project Management Planning System
and ParseRat, the File Parser, Converter and Reorganizer"
Rich Holler
Someone should just go ahead and post it for him. <G>
Adams-Blake Co.
>>Tic toc tic toc tic toc... Where's Mike?
>
> Someone should just go ahead and post it for him. <G>
You ASP guys just love to pick on people... for no reason at all. It's just
part of your mean-spirited culture, isn't it. It's not enough that you beat
the crap out of people in your private news group, you gotta break out of
there and get in a little public bashing as well, don't you.
It's too bad you guys can't harness all the hate, intolerance, and just plain
meanness that goes on over there in ASP-World and channel all that energy
into doing something positive for the industry.
It's good that we have Sharon as well as Mike in this industry. They "do"
stuff, instead of sitting on their fat butts (and a whole bunch of you ASP
guys ARE fat and out of shape) and bitching about Tucows, Download.com and
anyone else who is working to make a better business climate. Hell, why spend
$100 for the ASP when Sharon H. does it all for free.
Mike has not been on the group since the last time you so ruthlessly
persecuted him... and you just didn't get enough last month so you're trying
to bait him again.
I swear, for a seemingly intelligent bunch of guys, you sure have your
collective head up your collective ass sometimes.
The ASP. What a group.
A. Canton
PS: And it's not over until Timo comes out of his hole and chimes in. So come
on Timo, give it your best shot.
Jean Cyr
<atakeou...@adams.takeme.out.-blake.com> wrote:
>Rich Holler wrote:
>
>>>Tic toc tic toc tic toc... Where's Mike?
>>
>> Someone should just go ahead and post it for him. <G>
>
>You ASP guys just love to pick on people...
Yikes... Hook, line, and sinker... This might be one of the rare times we fully
agree Al! They do come off sounding like bitter old men with too much time on
their hands. Give'm enough rope and they'll always hang themselves.
---
Jean Cyr, Dillobits Software
Happiness is getting off the treadmill!
Dan
ASP. I simply find Mikes behavior childish. I am not alone in this view
and I am sure that I am not the only non-ASP member who feels this way. The
heat that comes down on Mike is directly tied to his behavior.
When one walks into a room full of people and behaves in a loud and childish
manner one is inviting ridicule. Mike's consistent crybaby posts dogging
Sharon's posts is childish and irritating. He should take his private
vendetta elsewhere (which perhaps he finally has since the usually post is
not present this time).
But thanks for the amusing anti-ASP rant...
"Adams-Blake Co." <atakeou...@adams.takeme.out.-blake.com> wrote in
message news:bgfmgd$nkr$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
Dan
news:RwRWa.3921$WM4....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 23:42:01 -0700, "Adams-Blake Co."
> <atakeou...@adams.takeme.out.-blake.com> wrote:
>
> >Rich Holler wrote:
> >
> >>>Tic toc tic toc tic toc... Where's Mike?
> >>
> >> Someone should just go ahead and post it for him. <G>
> >
> >You ASP guys just love to pick on people...
>
> Yikes... Hook, line, and sinker... This might be one of the rare times we
fully
> agree Al! They do come off sounding like bitter old men with too much time
on
> their hands. Give'm enough rope and they'll always hang themselves.
>
behaving like "hateful, intolerant, mean, fat (as if this is somehow
relevant) persecutors" as Rich says? I haven't seen that. Or are you
saying that this is a fair characterization of ASP members in other
settings? In my estimation Mike invites everything here that is dished up
for him.
Jean Cyr
Two wrongs don't make a right. There have been many accusations launched
from all sides. I probably should have kept quiet, but it struck me as
exceptionally small minded for two active ASP members (Rich Holer and Ed Guy)
to mock Mike for not doing precisely what they have been complaining about
for the past few months. Unfortunately, it does lend credence to what Mr. Canton
has been saying all along. Ask yourself, is it really appropriate for Richard
Holler, the ASP executive director, to participate in such petty and
counterproductive dialog? What does the behavior of its officers say about the
organization itself?
During my short tenure in the ASP, I had a couple opportunities to communicate
with Rich. He struck me as an level headed individual fiercely loyal to his
organization. That's no excuse for childish behavior on the part of a senior
officer, but perhaps he was having a bad day???
Jean Cyr
>Rich, I am not even in the ASP nor have I ever had any affiliation with the
>ASP. I simply find Mikes behavior childish. I am not alone in this view
>and I am sure that I am not the only non-ASP member who feels this way. The
>heat that comes down on Mike is directly tied to his behavior.
>
>When one walks into a room full of people and behaves in a loud and childish
>manner one is inviting ridicule. Mike's consistent crybaby posts dogging
>Sharon's posts is childish and irritating. He should take his private
>vendetta elsewhere (which perhaps he finally has since the usually post is
>not present this time).
>
>But thanks for the amusing anti-ASP rant...
>
You've got your posts a little mixed up. Rich Holler is the executive director
of the ASP. Al Canton is the author of the 'anti-ASP' rant. That's one of the
problems with these Usenet threads. Its hard to keep the players straight and
the topics from drifting.
Dan
Al's post and miss-took him as the poster. I am guilty of not keeping close
enough tabs of just who is posting what. On top of that I have a terrible
memory for names and get people here mixed up in my head all the time. My
apologies to Rich!
S. Housley
I was hoping that this month the *content* in the SMR newsletter would be
discussed. I thought for sure Digital River's latest acquisition (August 1,
2003) would create more controversy than the usual newsgroup flames.
Does anyone ever actually read the contents of the newsletter? ;-)
Ever the optomist ....
Sharon Housley
NotePage, Inc. - http://www.notepage.net
Software Marketing Resource - http://www.softwaremarketingresource.com
Bill Leary
> Does anyone ever actually read the contents of the newsletter? ;-)
Yes.
- Bill
Gawnsoft
news:bghjc...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Does anyone ever actually read the contents of the newsletter? ;-)
Yes - that's why I was able to send you emails detailng typos.
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
Dennis Reinhardt
> 2003) would create more controversy than the usual newsgroup flames.
I look at the DR acquisitions more in respect than controversy. There have
a plan and they are executing it.
I am impressed that these acquisitions have been leveraged so that existing
teams are in place. My guess is that they expose big plans where there are
going, make arguments they will succeed, and base the acquisition on
acquirer buying into vision.
For example, why would Armadillo sell and yet stay in place. Probably
because they imagine having the rest of DR as a resource will make them
really big. I am guessing that cash was a factor but not a huge factor.
Otherwise I would expect more acquisitions to hand over operations to DR and
walk.
--
Dennis Reinhardt
Den...@dair.com http://www.spamai.com?ng_alts
Jean Cyr
>Does anyone ever actually read the contents of the newsletter? ;-)
>
>Ever the optomist ....
Fear not. We read your newsletter. The DR consolidation is worrisome, but only
in that there are fewer and fewer competitors. Not much we can do about it here
though, and the barriers to entry are relatively low in that business. If they
get too greedy someone will pop up and make a decent income by taking a little
less.
I wonder how long they will sustain the identities of all their different
acquisitions. It seems to me that they are due for consolidation.
rush
> Does anyone ever actually read the contents of the newsletter? ;-)
Yes, and thanks for writing them :)
S. Housley
>> Does anyone ever actually read the contents of the newsletter? ;-)
>
>Yes - that's why I was able to send you emails detailng typos.
And thank you very much for that! Sometimes you look at something so long you
just don't see *it*... :-)
S. Housley
>in that there are fewer and fewer competitors. Not much we can do about it here
>though, and the barriers to entry are relatively low in that business. If they
>get too greedy someone will pop up and make a decent income by taking a little
>less.
>
>I wonder how long they will sustain the identities of all their different
>acquisitions. It seems to me that they are due for consolidation.
That is exactly the reason I thought there would be some discussion. With the
number of registration services they own now numbering around 6, it would make
sense for consolidation ... how that will effect developers, rates and policies
is a big issue.
There are less and less independent reg services that are able to provide
competitive services for a decent rate -- that leaves Emetrix, SWREG, eSellerate
and ShareIt as really the only other 4 industry players, quite a change from 2
years ago IMO.
Sharon Housley
NotePage, Inc.
http://www.notepage.net
Leaders in Wireless Messaging Software
S. Housley
>Yes, and thanks for writing them :)
You are very welcome! Sometimes the alt newsgroups become discouraging ;-)
In another month or so I expect to update the SMR site (similar to the ones done
on monitoring-software.net and messaging-software.com). Hopefully the updated
content will be beneficial to developers.
Thank you and Bill for your posts :-)
Jean Cyr
>With the
>number of registration services they own now numbering around 6, it would make
>sense for consolidation ... how that will effect developers, rates and policies
>is a big issue.
Not sure. Part of my business went to DR when PSL was acquired then swallowed
up by Digibuy. Since that time I have had few complaints and they have continued
to honor the PSL rates. Again, I don't know how long that can last but so far
they have treated me (a very small fish in their huge pond) fairly. They even
spent about 45 minutes on the phone with me recently, working through these EU
VAT issues, which is more than I can say for other services who put up "Don't
bug us, we'll let you know. We are very busy" web pages to deal with the same
issues.
I remain optimistic. There is nothing wrong with big as long as you don't lose
sight of your customers.
Kohan Ikin
> There are less and less independent reg services that are able to
> provide competitive services for a decent rate -- that leaves Emetrix,
> SWREG, eSellerate and ShareIt as really the only other 4 industry
> players, quite a change from 2 years ago IMO.
I'm curious why Kagi was left out of that list? Has Kagi been swallowed
up by another company, or is it regarded as not a big player anymore?
Not a criticism, just curious why I don't see much mention of Kagi in
these groups.
- Kohan
_____________________________________________________________________
namesuppressed - grunge music, kohan ikin
shareware Photoshop plugins, http://www.namesuppressed.com
opinions and much much more... syne...@NOSPAM.namesuppressed.com
Steve Lee
> which is more than I can say for other services who put up "Don't
> bug us, we'll let you know. We are very busy" web pages to deal with the same
> issues.
>
Oh dear - I suspect I was one. Partly because until around 10 days before
deadline we still had not had determined if we could wriggle out of it so all
questions were generic, we were short of staff either programming or on
holiday, and it made sense to discuss these issues on our SWREG Yahoogroup
rather than one to one so we could all benefit.
I and Allen Woods are due to meet HM Customs next week at their head office to
try and improve things but do not hold your breath.
--
Steve Lee
http://swreg.org - *We can sell your program for as low as 69 cents*
http://getafile.com - *Fast low cost bandwidth from only $1.95 a gigabyte*
Chris Thornton
> Does anyone ever actually read the contents of the newsletter? ;-)
I do! And I always look forward to it.
--
Chris
Chris Smolinski
>
> In article <bgj7f...@drn.newsguy.com>, S._m...@newsguy.com says...
> > There are less and less independent reg services that are able to
> > provide competitive services for a decent rate -- that leaves Emetrix,
> > SWREG, eSellerate and ShareIt as really the only other 4 industry
> > players, quite a change from 2 years ago IMO.
>
> I'm curious why Kagi was left out of that list? Has Kagi been swallowed
> up by another company, or is it regarded as not a big player anymore?
> Not a criticism, just curious why I don't see much mention of Kagi in
> these groups.
Kagi is certainly still around. Privately held I believe. It's somewhat
Mac-centric, so it may not be on the radar of the wintel gang. I'd
certainly consider it an "industry player".
Chris
S. Housley
>I'm curious why Kagi was left out of that list?
Simply, because I don't know any developers who use them. I understand they are
used by some Mac developers but I've never run accross anyone using Kagi's
services.
>Has Kagi been swallowed
>up by another company, or is it regarded as not a big player anymore?
Not that I know of, but they don't have any precense at software events,
discussion groups, and I don't know of anyone patronizing their service, thus
*I* don't consider them a player. ;-)
>Not a criticism, just curious why I don't see much mention of Kagi in
>these groups.
There are a number of other registration service, and many that do not
specialize in software registration, but the majority of developers I know of
tend to stick with those that understand the software industry. I simply listed
those that developers tend to think of, when discussing registration services.
There are also "regional" developers who are known within specific developer
communities. I know there is a registration service in Russia many russians use,
but the name is escaping me.
No slight was meant to anyone left off the list, I just posted it as an
indication of how things have changed, and the field has narrowed.
Chris Smolinski
>
> Hi,
>
> >I'm curious why Kagi was left out of that list?
>
> Simply, because I don't know any developers who use them. I understand they are
> used by some Mac developers but I've never run accross anyone using Kagi's
> services.
I'd actually say that Kagi is the *dominant* reg service in the Mac
section of the shareware universe. Most Mac developers seem to use them
(I do) and most Mac users have bought through them. A lot of Mac users
have probably never heard of SWREG or Share-It. I use both Kagi and
SWREG, offer both on my website for customers to use, and the majority
use Kagi. I suspect because they know Kagi and feel secure using them.
> Not that I know of, but they don't have any precense at software events,
> discussion groups, and I don't know of anyone patronizing their service, thus
> *I* don't consider them a player. ;-)
You mean that they don't show up at wintel centric events? ;-) Kagi
shows up at MacWorld, yet I never see SWREG or Share-It there. I guess
they're not major players?
> There are a number of other registration service, and many that do not
> specialize in software registration, but the majority of developers I know of
> tend to stick with those that understand the software industry. I simply listed
> those that developers tend to think of, when discussing registration services.
Again, I think this is a case of just not knowing much about Kagi, or
having dealt with them. Maybe you want to give Kee a shout and find out
a little information, or just visit their website. I don't know what
Kagi's annual sales are, since they're private, but I suspect that they
are not a small time operator.
(This dovetails nicely into my comments from long ago about the ASP/etc
not having a clue about the Mac market, but I'll skip that for now)
Chris
S. Housley
>> discussion groups, and I don't know of anyone patronizing their service, thus
>> *I* don't consider them a player. ;-)
>
>You mean that they don't show up at wintel centric events? ;-) Kagi
>shows up at MacWorld, yet I never see SWREG or Share-It there. I guess
>they're not major players?
Like I said *I* don't run into anyone using Kagi. We have 60 websites and
receive multiple listing requests from developers every day. Only the webpages
specific to NotePage are platform specific, the majority of the sites we have
list both MAC and Windows application and I just don't see Kagi listed as an
order processing company (sorry). I've not seen Kagi in a *software* or
*shareware* discussion groups or events (ie. ISDEF, SIC, SoftwareCEO,
EuroConference, etc... none of which are windows specific). Perhaps Kagi is
platform specific and only attends events or discussions specifically for MAC
developers. I really don't know, I just know my path rarely crosses theirs. I've
not seen Kagi in this newsgroup for example, and it is for *shareware* both
Windows and MAC developers.
>(This dovetails nicely into my comments from long ago about the ASP/etc
>not having a clue about the Mac market, but I'll skip that for now)
This has nothing to do with the ASP. There is no need for their to be a platform
division in this industry. Is the Shareware Industry Awards Foundation (SIC),
ISDEF, the Euro-Conference and Software CEO all anti-MAC? The simple fact is
that there are more people purchasing windows software and as a result there are
more windows developers. None of the above organziations attempt to allienate
MAC developers, they are welcomed, as are PDA developers. It doesn't matter what
you develop, there are enough commonalities in marketing and sales that all
developers can learn from each other, to turn someone off simply because they
develop for a different platform is just ridiculous IMO.
The Software Marketing Resource site is not industry specific and I hope that
*all* developers benefit from it, not just those who develop for Windows.
All of that aside I was basing my comments on who *I* encounter in the industry,
no slight was meant towards Kagi.
Laura Look
>[DR] even
>spent about 45 minutes on the phone with me recently, working through these EU
>VAT issues, which is more than I can say for other services who put up "Don't
>bug us, we'll let you know. We are very busy" web pages to deal with the same
>issues.
Does DR have a web page with more information than "Don't bug us..."?
On June 17, they posted a very short announcement on the Author
Administration page that ended with "Full details will be
forthcoming." No details forthcame as far as I can find. Am I
missing something?
--
Laura
Bitsmith Software
http://www.bitsmithsoft.com
Kohan Ikin
> > Not that I know of, but they don't have any precense at software events,
> > discussion groups, and I don't know of anyone patronizing their service,
> > thus *I* don't consider them a player. ;-)
Thanks for the followup Sharon, and I'm sorry if I've started a holy war
(I didn't mean to!). It hadn't crossed my mind that Kagi has a more Mac-
centric community, but I can see that now.
I'm a wintel developer and I chose to use Kagi back in 2000 because they
were the only group I'd heard of then, everyone I bought from online
seemed to use them (software developers, musicians, my webhost). But now
I remember, back in 2000 my internet connection was through a Mac, and I
was buying lots of Mac software at the time. I guess I came into the
wintel shareware community via a different door to everyone else :)
Chris Smolinski
>
> >> Not that I know of, but they don't have any precense at software events,
> >> discussion groups, and I don't know of anyone patronizing their service, thus
> >> *I* don't consider them a player. ;-)
> >
> >You mean that they don't show up at wintel centric events? ;-) Kagi
> >shows up at MacWorld, yet I never see SWREG or Share-It there. I guess
> >they're not major players?
>
> Like I said *I* don't run into anyone using Kagi. We have 60 websites and
> receive multiple listing requests from developers every day. Only the webpages
> specific to NotePage are platform specific, the majority of the sites we have
> list both MAC and Windows application and I just don't see Kagi listed as an
> order processing company (sorry).
I'm just surprised that you didn't do a little poking around before
writing your article. Kagi is listed on every listing of reg services
I've ever seen.
BTW: It's "Mac", not "MAC". "Mac" is shorthand for "Macintosh", "MAC" is
an acronym. Sorry, it is just one of my pet peeves.
Chris
Chris Thornton
news:3F2E8FA7...@erols.com...
> (This dovetails nicely into my comments from long ago about the ASP/etc
> not having a clue about the Mac market, but I'll skip that for now)
Perhaps you can enlighten us then. What is the purpose or benefit of having
a "Mac-Centric" registration service? I use Digibuy, but I see no apparent
tie-in to Windows or Intel chips. So why would the e-commerce platform have
any tie-in with the end-user platform? How is it easier for a Mac user to
order via Kagi than any other service? I don't get it.
--
Chris
Chris Smolinski
No, you don't. ;-)
There are indeed quite a few Windows authors selling through Kagi. Plus
linux, and people selling physical goods. Kagi started up primarily
servicing Mac shareware authors (just the way it worked out). It doesn't
discriminate against non Mac users/authors, it just has a much larger
presence in the Mac world than the Windows world. Hence more new Mac
shareware authors are already familiar with it, and decide to use it,
which is probably why it remains the most popular reg service for Mac
authors. It's not a plot to keep Windows authors away, it's just the way
things worked out.
The side effect of this is that it may not be very well known outside
the Mac world. So someone who spends all their time in the Windows
world, and writes an article on reg service, might not be aware of them,
or their status. If that same someone did a little poking around outside
the Windows universe, they'd be aware of Kagi.
Chris
S. Housley
>the Mac world. So someone who spends all their time in the Windows
>world, and writes an article on reg service,
Just to clarify I wrote an article (if you could call it that) about Digital
River purchasing RegNet, not about registration services. It was then followed
by a newsgroup post about registration services - hardly an article. Also, as
I've explained the circles I frequent are not "Windows world" they are open to
*all* developers. Software Marketing Resource benefits *all* developers (I would
hope), not just those who are win-centric.
>might not be aware of them,
>or their status. If that same someone did a little poking around outside
>the Windows universe, they'd be aware of Kagi.
How is Software Marketing Resource, ISDEF, SIC, Educational Software
Cooperative, SoftwareCEO part of the "windows universe"? As I see it they all
involve *software* and none are platform specific. Its not that I'm not aware of
Kagi, I know they exist, as I know Plimus exists or Order1 I just don't consider
them *players* in the software registration service industry.
Just my opinion. ;-)
This thread sure has drifted.
Sharon Housley
NotePage, Inc.
http://www.notepage.net
Chris Thornton
> No, you don't. ;-)
No, it turns out I DO get it. Thanks for the explanation.
It's just a cultural thing then, and the Mac-crowd need to feel "special".
Chris Smolinski
>
> How is Software Marketing Resource, ISDEF, SIC, Educational Software
> Cooperative, SoftwareCEO part of the "windows universe"? As I see it they all
> involve *software* and none are platform specific. Its not that I'm not aware of
> Kagi, I know they exist, as I know Plimus exists or Order1 I just don't consider
> them *players* in the software registration service industry.
Any chance you don't consider Kagi a "player" because you haven't looked
into the market they're "playing in"? Since you write lots of good
articles on various aspects of the shareware biz, maybe you'd like to
think about looking into other platforms, and seeing what's different
there? It might make for some interesting reading for your readers.
Chris
Chris Smolinski
No, I guess you don't get it, then. it's not about feeling "special",
it's about a business that started dealing with mostly one platform of
developers, and due to name recognition is the major player in that
market.
Now I know why some folks refer to the ASP as the WASP ;-)
Chris
Rich Holler
Once again, please explain to us how this has *anything* to do with the ASP?
Kohan Ikin
know-what.thornsoft.com says...
> No, it turns out I DO get it. Thanks for the explanation.
> It's just a cultural thing then, and the Mac-crowd need to feel "special".
I don't think that's true. It's probably more correct to say that Kagi
satisfied the needs of Mac shareware authors more than the other
providers. Let me explain:
Kagi started back in 1994, before the big boom of the web, and so paying
by mail order was more common. Kagi developed a program called Register
that could be distributed with shareware programs to generate a printable
order form to send to Kagi. It encrypted your credit card details to
keep them safe in postal transit, and it even calculated exchange rates,
so you knew how much of your local currency to put in the envelope. In
short, it made it easier to buy software.
That program was available for Macintosh, and also PC and even BeOS. To
my knowledge (and I may be wrong), no other provider offered a similar
program on Macintosh or BeOS, so Kagi became attractive to those
developers.
Combine that with the killer Macintosh applications that Kagi sold (a
very popular Mac FTP client called Anarchie, and the wildly popular games
made by Ambrosia Software) and you start to understand why Kagi became
well known in Macintosh circles. These were programs that lots of Mac
users knew, so they all came into contact with the Kagi name.
I hope that helps understanding. Again, sorry to trigger such a strange
thread... if this happens all the time, then I completely understand why
people don't mention Kagi around here :)
Ed Guy
> Two wrongs don't make a right. There have been many accusations launched
> from all sides. I probably should have kept quiet, but it struck me as
> exceptionally small minded for two active ASP members (Rich Holer and Ed Guy)
> to mock Mike for not doing precisely what they have been complaining about
> for the past few months.
I don't think I mocked him. I'm still waiting for HIS reply to my comment on one of
his attempts to impugn my motives.
I'm glad if he's quit doing this sort of thing. He has some good ideas when he gets
of his hobby horse.
--
Ed Guy P.Eng,CDP,MIEE
Information Technology Consultant
Internet: e...@guysoftware.com
http://www.guysoftware.com
"Check out HELLLP!, WinHelp author tool for WinWord 2.0 through 8.0,
PlanBee Project Management Planning System
and ParseRat, the File Parser, Converter and Reorganizer"
Adams-Blake Co.
> Jean Cyr wrote:
>
>> Two wrongs don't make a right. There have been many accusations launched
>> from all sides. I probably should have kept quiet, but it struck me as
>> exceptionally small minded for two active ASP members (Rich Holer and Ed
>> Guy) to mock Mike for not doing precisely what they have been complaining
>> about for the past few months.
>
> I don't think I mocked him. I'm still waiting for HIS reply to my comment
> on one of his attempts to impugn my motives.
>
Come on, Ed. Take responsibiity for your own actions here. You and Rich were
giving Mike a good poke in the eye with a sharp stick. If you think anyone
with a sane and logical mind will read your posting as being "supportive"
then I think you need to re-visit that hypothesis.
This was typical ASP-land behavoir. Find something you don't like about a guy
and never let up, never let go, and do all you can go beat the every-lovin'
crap out of him ... all the time.
You see it on the ASP private newsgroups, you see it here, and you see it
when/where ASP people meet and gather (like at SIC.)
It's the culture. Being "rotten" is accepted and to some extent even
encouraged by the organization's leadership.... I mean why else would you see
the Mr. Holller, the ASP EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR( who is paid over $30,000 a year
by the membership) come on a public forum like this one and beat up on a guy
who was NOT doing what the ASP executive blamed him for doing? Tell me how
else you can explain it, Ed? I'd like to know. I really would.
I rather expect that kind of thing from Rich. He's one of the ASP leaders and
he has a long history of being part of the culture, if not leading it. But
Ed, I know you to be a kind, decent, respectful guy (no pun intended.) But I
think you really fell off the wagon and into the mud on this one.
My advice? Say you're sorry, eat your own dog food, and give Mike a chance.
What is the great harm in doing that.... except that you might be labled as a
"wus" by your ASP peers... but I think that would be a GOOD thing. Someone
inside the ASP needs to stand up and say, if nothing else, "Hey, we really
should not have our executive director out there acting like an idiot.... it
really makes us look bad."
Ed, you should be that man as I think people like, and respect you ... both
in and out of the organization. Along side you there are a handful of "good"
ASP guys... Gary, Chris, Tim, Sam, Al, etc. . It would be nice if some of
these guys would seek to change the culture of the ASP and make it a bit more
civil.
Maybe one day.
ANC
Ed Guy
> Ed Guy wrote:
>
> > Jean Cyr wrote:
> >
> >> Two wrongs don't make a right. There have been many accusations launched
> >> from all sides. I probably should have kept quiet, but it struck me as
> >> exceptionally small minded for two active ASP members (Rich Holer and Ed
> >> Guy) to mock Mike for not doing precisely what they have been complaining
> >> about for the past few months.
> >
> > I don't think I mocked him. I'm still waiting for HIS reply to my comment
> > on one of his attempts to impugn my motives.
> >
>
> Come on, Ed. Take responsibiity for your own actions here.
To repeat. I'm STILL waiting for his reply to my comment on one of his attempts
to impugn my motives.
I'm waiting for his response to my comments on a lot of strange things he's said
about me. I may be the only person who has been publicly rejected for TPA
membership without ever applying!
I noted a month ago that his comment was probably a freudian slip and explained
his actions more than mine. I also said that I'd re-post it if necessary.
I probably should have waited until I got back from the Okanagan yesterday before
I did so (I left early last Saturday and did not know where the thread would go).
On that issue I accept your criticism as valid.
> But Ed, I know you to be a kind, decent, respectful guy (no pun intended.) But
> I
> think you really fell off the wagon and into the mud on this one.
On this one, I got pulled into the mud by somebody who wanted to wrestle in it.
I don't go around starting fights - but I try to ensure that I don't lose one
when somebody elses starts it. That way, they start fewer.