Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Windows 7/Dream PC 2006 suddenly shutsdown during COH1 and COH2 beta.
1 view
Skip to first unread message
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 1:16:25 AM4/18/13
to
Hello,
I was just beta testing Company of Heroes 2 Beta, my third game... and in
the midst of the game... suddenly BOOM... computer shuts down !
I have seen the same behaviour in Company of Heroes 1.
So first I thought it might have been a remote attack onto the network card,
perhaps a shutdown message.
But now I am also starting to believe it might be an NVIDIA Graphics Driver
problem... for the GT 520.
I updated that driver not so long ago, ever since... 2 system shutdowns have
happened... quite weird.
It could ofcourse also be a hardware problem or maybe GSM interference or
whatever... seems somewhat unlikely... usually my PC works well the last two
years or so.
Just putting this out there as a warning to others that these drivers might
be bad.
Then again... Winfast is not the greatest motherboard in the world and quite
old.
I also managed to crash the computer by running my corewars simulator and
enabling sound... but that probably has to do with bugs in sound driver or
windows itself, probably unrelated.
First I shall mention the current drivers and then try to update them to
hope to solve this shutdown from occuring.
(There was a kernel-power event in the event log indicating suddenly
powerloss ?!? Could also be a brief moment of power loss ? I did not notice
any light flickering... maybe denon receiver has some dust build up... I ll
try and blow out a bit.).
I did notice a few spider slings here and there... could be a spider causing
a short circuit... hope it doesnt fry me ;) I just blew something off the
receiver... a little dust ball... oh well.
So far had 1 game vs ai won, 2 games against people, first game I got kicked
because pc too slow, second game power drop.. this could ruin my war/general
reputation :) hopefully this problem is solved soon... so me gonna try to
solve it now ;)
(so far playing at 1024x786 at lowest settings allowed me to keep in the
game... )
Current drivers:
for gt 520:
285.62-desktop-win7-winvista-64bit-english-whql.exe
for amd x2-3800+ cpu:
unknown...
Bye,
Skybuck.
I was just beta testing Company of Heroes 2 Beta, my third game... and in
the midst of the game... suddenly BOOM... computer shuts down !
I have seen the same behaviour in Company of Heroes 1.
So first I thought it might have been a remote attack onto the network card,
perhaps a shutdown message.
But now I am also starting to believe it might be an NVIDIA Graphics Driver
problem... for the GT 520.
I updated that driver not so long ago, ever since... 2 system shutdowns have
happened... quite weird.
It could ofcourse also be a hardware problem or maybe GSM interference or
whatever... seems somewhat unlikely... usually my PC works well the last two
years or so.
Just putting this out there as a warning to others that these drivers might
be bad.
Then again... Winfast is not the greatest motherboard in the world and quite
old.
I also managed to crash the computer by running my corewars simulator and
enabling sound... but that probably has to do with bugs in sound driver or
windows itself, probably unrelated.
First I shall mention the current drivers and then try to update them to
hope to solve this shutdown from occuring.
(There was a kernel-power event in the event log indicating suddenly
powerloss ?!? Could also be a brief moment of power loss ? I did not notice
any light flickering... maybe denon receiver has some dust build up... I ll
try and blow out a bit.).
I did notice a few spider slings here and there... could be a spider causing
a short circuit... hope it doesnt fry me ;) I just blew something off the
receiver... a little dust ball... oh well.
So far had 1 game vs ai won, 2 games against people, first game I got kicked
because pc too slow, second game power drop.. this could ruin my war/general
reputation :) hopefully this problem is solved soon... so me gonna try to
solve it now ;)
(so far playing at 1024x786 at lowest settings allowed me to keep in the
game... )
Current drivers:
for gt 520:
285.62-desktop-win7-winvista-64bit-english-whql.exe
for amd x2-3800+ cpu:
unknown...
Bye,
Skybuck.
David W. Hodgins
Apr 18, 2013, 1:23:34 AM4/18/13
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 01:16:25 -0400, Skybuck Flying <Window...@dreampc2006.com> wrote:
> I was just beta testing Company of Heroes 2 Beta, my third game... and in
> the midst of the game... suddenly BOOM... computer shuts down !
The graphics card is most likely drawing enough power to overload
> I was just beta testing Company of Heroes 2 Beta, my third game... and in
> the midst of the game... suddenly BOOM... computer shuts down !
the power supply. From
http://evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=01G-P3-1521-KR
Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amps
What's the +12V rail rating of the power supply? Try removing all
unneeded devices.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 1:24:14 AM4/18/13
to
"
Current drivers:
for gt 520:
285.62-desktop-win7-winvista-64bit-english-whql.exe
for amd x2-3800+ cpu:
unknown...
"
The amd processor probably doesn't need a driver, though I did see some game
Current drivers:
for gt 520:
285.62-desktop-win7-winvista-64bit-english-whql.exe
for amd x2-3800+ cpu:
unknown...
"
install special drivers for it.
For now I will only install the GT 520 driver, and maybe later if it happens
again remove any processor drivers.
I will try this driver now:
314.22-desktop-win8-win7-winvista-64bit-english-whql.exe
Also sound card driver comes to mind ;)
That could also be the cause of it... seems to make some sense in
combination with my app... but that could be an app bug... then again ;) :)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 1:31:43 AM4/18/13
to
While installing the new driver, I did notice a little light flickering on
main lights... so there does seems to be some power fluctuations.
Perhaps work is being done on the power grid.
Or perhaps people wanting to go to work or plugging in their electric cars
to charge them.
Not so long ago... a few weeks or months I was taking a piss on the
toilet... and the light flicker off for almost a second...
so that was pretty weird.
I wonder what would be causing such flickers and I also wonder how much
powerloss PCs can handle before shutdown occurs.
Milliseconds, seconds ? Microseconds ? Hmm...
I shall now go test the new graphics driver... ;) :)
But first I also check if a new audio driver is available.
Bye,
Skybuck.
main lights... so there does seems to be some power fluctuations.
Perhaps work is being done on the power grid.
Or perhaps people wanting to go to work or plugging in their electric cars
to charge them.
Not so long ago... a few weeks or months I was taking a piss on the
toilet... and the light flicker off for almost a second...
so that was pretty weird.
I wonder what would be causing such flickers and I also wonder how much
powerloss PCs can handle before shutdown occurs.
Milliseconds, seconds ? Microseconds ? Hmm...
I shall now go test the new graphics driver... ;) :)
But first I also check if a new audio driver is available.
Bye,
Skybuck.
Paul
Apr 18, 2013, 1:32:45 AM4/18/13
to
"Windows-Kernel-Power
The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first.
This error could be caused if the system stopped responding,
crashed, or lost power unexpectedly."
Possible reasons for that are:
1) CPU overheated and reached THERMTRIP temperature. And that
caused the power supply to be turned off.
2) Power supply has a problem. You are drawing too much current.
I think (1) is more likely. With (2) you might have more accompanying
symptoms (noise, smell, other observable symptoms).
Try a program like Prime95, or any application similar to it,
which loads the processor to a high level. This will
test that the cooling on your processor is adequate. You
can use something like Speedfan from almico.com , to monitor
the temperature.
All it takes, to make the cooler inefficient, is a lack
of thermal paste between the CPU and the bottom of
the heatsink. Or, if the spring clip snaps off a plastic tab
on the socket, that will also cause a lack of a good thermal
path from the CPU, into the cooler.
Paul
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 1:33:09 AM4/18/13
to
So this will have to do ;) :)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 1:38:04 AM4/18/13
to
The power supply used to be the seasonic S12... which could deliver 600
watts of power.
It's internal cabling was too short for the antec12 case and the motherboard
so it was replaced with:
OCZ Mod X Stream Power Supply it can deliver 780 watt and was designed for
SLI.
So it should have no problems power a mere GT 520 ? Unless something special
going on with GT 520 ?
GT 520 is considered low end... it's even passively cooled...
That could be the problem... maybe it somehow overheated... it seems
unlikely though... antec 1200 at medium fan speed...
No dust blockers... nothing is blocking the air flow except harddisks which
are probably off or low heat... so the air flow is not that much obstructed
and pretty good.
Ventilation should not be a problem with the antec 1200... so probably not
overheat... though some games like starcraft did run the menu super fast
initially...
maybe COH2 does something similar but coh1 happened too... so seems
unlikely.
amps on rails are unspecified...
But maybe you can figure that out by googling for it...
I selected my components carefully... so I think it's ok.
Though the power supply has to be air intake upwards... so something may
have fallen into it... maybe a spider or so... or some dust or hairs...
Bye,
Skybuck.
watts of power.
It's internal cabling was too short for the antec12 case and the motherboard
so it was replaced with:
OCZ Mod X Stream Power Supply it can deliver 780 watt and was designed for
SLI.
So it should have no problems power a mere GT 520 ? Unless something special
going on with GT 520 ?
GT 520 is considered low end... it's even passively cooled...
That could be the problem... maybe it somehow overheated... it seems
unlikely though... antec 1200 at medium fan speed...
No dust blockers... nothing is blocking the air flow except harddisks which
are probably off or low heat... so the air flow is not that much obstructed
and pretty good.
Ventilation should not be a problem with the antec 1200... so probably not
overheat... though some games like starcraft did run the menu super fast
initially...
maybe COH2 does something similar but coh1 happened too... so seems
unlikely.
amps on rails are unspecified...
But maybe you can figure that out by googling for it...
I selected my components carefully... so I think it's ok.
Though the power supply has to be air intake upwards... so something may
have fallen into it... maybe a spider or so... or some dust or hairs...
Bye,
Skybuck.
WoolyBully
Apr 18, 2013, 1:41:30 AM4/18/13
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 07:16:25 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
connections from it to the MOBO?
ESPECIALLY the EXTRA supply links to the video card.
You prolly bought another shit MOBO to build your box on.
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I was just beta testing Company of Heroes 2 Beta, my third game... and in
>the midst of the game... suddenly BOOM... computer shuts down !
>
>I have seen the same behaviour in Company of Heroes 1.
>
>So first I thought it might have been a remote attack onto the network card,
>perhaps a shutdown message.
Did you ever, EVER FIRST think of the POWER SUPPLY or one of the
>Hello,
>
>I was just beta testing Company of Heroes 2 Beta, my third game... and in
>the midst of the game... suddenly BOOM... computer shuts down !
>
>I have seen the same behaviour in Company of Heroes 1.
>
>So first I thought it might have been a remote attack onto the network card,
>perhaps a shutdown message.
connections from it to the MOBO?
ESPECIALLY the EXTRA supply links to the video card.
You prolly bought another shit MOBO to build your box on.
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 1:43:12 AM4/18/13
to
I also like whacky theories...
Perhaps it has something to do with the morning...
Perhaps the turning off of the street lights has something to do with it...
or indeed people waking up and turning on lights...
I think it was already light... but not sure... I will pay attention
tomorrow to see at what times the lights go off and on and such ;)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Perhaps it has something to do with the morning...
Perhaps the turning off of the street lights has something to do with it...
or indeed people waking up and turning on lights...
I think it was already light... but not sure... I will pay attention
tomorrow to see at what times the lights go off and on and such ;)
Bye,
Skybuck.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Apr 18, 2013, 1:47:56 AM4/18/13
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 07:16:25 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
>But now I am also starting to believe it might be an NVIDIA Graphics Driver
>problem... for the GT 520.
>
>I updated that driver not so long ago, ever since... 2 system shutdowns have
>happened... quite weird.
POWER SUPPLY, idiot.
>problem... for the GT 520.
>
>I updated that driver not so long ago, ever since... 2 system shutdowns have
>happened... quite weird.
Either the connections or the supply itself. It should be at least
1000W or even 1200W minimum.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Apr 18, 2013, 7:54:53 AM4/18/13
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 07:38:04 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
could be powered by it.
that.
Nowhere near enough for even the cheapest modern SLI graphic cards,
especially those which are nvidia powered.
>
>So it should have no problems power a mere GT 520 ?
You are a mere idiot. Look what evga or any other card maker states as
being the minimum supply needs.
> Unless something special
>going on with GT 520 ?
No... just you being eSPECIALly stupid.
touch because you can't keep your hands off it.
Usually, I (one) would hope that a person would learn something from
their experiences. Your reputation, however, precedes you.
I hope you do not try to work in the computer field when you grow up.
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
>The power supply used to be the seasonic S12... which could deliver 600
>watts of power.
And you are a complete idiot for thinking that ANY modern graphics card
>The power supply used to be the seasonic S12... which could deliver 600
>watts of power.
could be powered by it.
>
>It's internal cabling was too short for the antec12 case and the motherboard
>so it was replaced with:
>
>OCZ Mod X Stream Power Supply it can deliver 780 watt and was designed for
>SLI.
Sure... back when SLI was introduced and vid cards only wanted half
>It's internal cabling was too short for the antec12 case and the motherboard
>so it was replaced with:
>
>OCZ Mod X Stream Power Supply it can deliver 780 watt and was designed for
>SLI.
that.
Nowhere near enough for even the cheapest modern SLI graphic cards,
especially those which are nvidia powered.
>
>So it should have no problems power a mere GT 520 ?
being the minimum supply needs.
> Unless something special
>going on with GT 520 ?
>
>GT 520 is considered low end... it's even passively cooled...
No, your brain power is considered low end. You break everything you
>GT 520 is considered low end... it's even passively cooled...
touch because you can't keep your hands off it.
Usually, I (one) would hope that a person would learn something from
their experiences. Your reputation, however, precedes you.
I hope you do not try to work in the computer field when you grow up.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Apr 18, 2013, 7:56:59 AM4/18/13
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 07:38:04 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
>amps on rails are unspecified...
BULLSHIT!
ALL ATX spec power supplies have declarations of what EACH and EVERY
rail supplies.
If you are unfamiliar with what the terminology refers to, you should
ask.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Apr 18, 2013, 7:59:39 AM4/18/13
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 07:38:04 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
>
<Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
>
>I selected my components carefully... so I think it's ok.
Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Says the 13 year old.
Oh and I just noticed... it is a beta! Ever stop to think that you
may have reached the end of the beta gameplay, or a bug, you stupid
twit?!!!
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 10:19:20 AM4/18/13
to
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" wrote in message
news:vs1vm858ni6et7c0k...@4ax.com...
when multiple PCs/devices on ! ;)
1000 watt for a PC is insane anyway ! ;) :)
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 10:18:30 AM4/18/13
to
I shall report the system shutdown on the beta forum just in case it's
COH-specific...
Unfortunately I don't play much other games anymore... so dont know if it
happens with other games...
Come to think of it maybe it happened with aliens colonial marines... not
sure... for now assume not.
Bye,
Skybuck.
COH-specific...
Unfortunately I don't play much other games anymore... so dont know if it
happens with other games...
Come to think of it maybe it happened with aliens colonial marines... not
sure... for now assume not.
Bye,
Skybuck.
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 10:16:12 AM4/18/13
to
"
>amps on rails are unspecified...
BULLSHIT!
ALL ATX spec power supplies have declarations of what EACH and EVERY
rail supplies.
If you are unfamiliar with what the terminology refers to, you should
ask.
"
I checked the box... nothing in the box... nothing on the box... at least
>amps on rails are unspecified...
BULLSHIT!
ALL ATX spec power supplies have declarations of what EACH and EVERY
rail supplies.
If you are unfamiliar with what the terminology refers to, you should
ask.
"
the seasonic box mentioned it... but not the ocz
Maybe I have the manual in the other motherboard box, that's right...
Ok you been usefull.. me go find the manual ;) :)
Here are the specs for you:
For the +12v rail the ampere is max 20 A ! and minimum 0.5 A
I am not stupid you know...
I checked these numbers ofcourse... before I bought it ! DUH...
At least to power my old 7900 GTX cards.. which I dont use anymore...
And surely a mere GT 520 won't exceed 7900 GTX cards on the ampere front ?
come on ?! ;) =D
Hihihi you hilarius ! ;) =D
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 10:17:36 AM4/18/13
to
"
Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Says the 13 year old.
Oh and I just noticed... it is a beta! Ever stop to think that you
may have reached the end of the beta gameplay, or a bug, you stupid
twit?!!!
"
Learn to read dumbwit... yes I know it's difficult for you to wade through
Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Says the 13 year old.
Oh and I just noticed... it is a beta! Ever stop to think that you
may have reached the end of the beta gameplay, or a bug, you stupid
twit?!!!
"
my postings...
Why the fok you think I make them so detailed...
I already wrote... it happened in COH1 as well ! ;) =D
Which is not in beta.
Perhaps code from COH1 triggered it in COH2...
But I have seen at least one weird reset with my own APP... could be
unrelated though...
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 10:12:17 AM4/18/13
to
Dude seriously.... the GT 520 is passively cooled and only consumes 45 watts
?!
Either you trolling or you need to come up with some facts/explanations why
it wouldnt be enough ?! ;) =)
Now I do know that watts and ampere is different... so you explain it to me
if something is going on with that...
But you probably don't have to bother because I have gamed with it a lot
already...
So the shutdown is something rare/strange/odd.
Bye,
Skybuck.
?!
Either you trolling or you need to come up with some facts/explanations why
it wouldnt be enough ?! ;) =)
Now I do know that watts and ampere is different... so you explain it to me
if something is going on with that...
But you probably don't have to bother because I have gamed with it a lot
already...
So the shutdown is something rare/strange/odd.
Bye,
Skybuck.
Paul
Apr 18, 2013, 1:22:37 PM4/18/13
to
http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-GT-520-card-650.html
Your entire box could probably run off a 350 to 450W supply.
Paul
Paul
Apr 18, 2013, 1:26:45 PM4/18/13
to
of the supply. I don't know if OCZ has ever done that, but
it has happened on other brands.
Download the product brief, from OCZ, for the model in question.
A representation of the label sticker, is included here, with numbers.
http://ocz.com/consumer/download/product-briefs/psu_zt_series_product_brief.pdf
Paul
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 3:41:59 PM4/18/13
to
"Paul" wrote in message news:kkpa76$i4n$1...@dont-email.me...
I have mod X stream... got the manual lieing right in front of me ! ;) =D
Bye,
Skybuck.
Skybuck Flying
Apr 18, 2013, 3:45:33 PM4/18/13
to
Well "fok me" (not literally :))
The GT 520 actually requires 18 amperes ?! Holy fok ?!
And the power supply only delivers 20 amperes max ?!
So the theory that the GT 520 might go a bit over 20 seams reasonable...
I think we might have found our culprit ?!
FOOOOOOOOOK.
Why the fok does GT 520 need 18 amperes ?!?!?!?!?!?
Bye,
Skybuck.
The GT 520 actually requires 18 amperes ?! Holy fok ?!
And the power supply only delivers 20 amperes max ?!
So the theory that the GT 520 might go a bit over 20 seams reasonable...
I think we might have found our culprit ?!
FOOOOOOOOOK.
Why the fok does GT 520 need 18 amperes ?!?!?!?!?!?
Bye,
Skybuck.
Paul
Apr 18, 2013, 4:29:18 PM4/18/13
to
That's approximate, because the video card is
also connected to 3.3V and draws a couple watts
from that. It draws not more than 2.4 Amps.
So can your power supply handle 2.4 amps from the 12V rail.
I think so.
The "imaginative" current rating in the documentation,
is an estimate of the *total system current* . And there's
no way they can guess that with any accuracy. But you
can work it out for yourself, if you want. (Work out
power requirements for each component, add together.)
Paul
David W. Hodgins
Apr 18, 2013, 7:25:56 PM4/18/13
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 15:45:33 -0400, Skybuck Flying <Window...@dreampc2006.com> wrote:
> Well "fok me" (not literally :))
> The GT 520 actually requires 18 amperes ?! Holy fok ?!
> And the power supply only delivers 20 amperes max ?!
> So the theory that the GT 520 might go a bit over 20 seams reasonable...
Especially as there are other devices pulling +12V power.
> Well "fok me" (not literally :))
> The GT 520 actually requires 18 amperes ?! Holy fok ?!
> And the power supply only delivers 20 amperes max ?!
> So the theory that the GT 520 might go a bit over 20 seams reasonable...
> I think we might have found our culprit ?!
> FOOOOOOOOOK.
> Why the fok does GT 520 need 18 amperes ?!?!?!?!?!?
problem. Had a power supply that was rated for 24 amps on the
+12V rail. Had spontaneous reboots and shutdowns, with no log
messages, or obvious causes. Figured out it was the ps when adding
a third usb device forced an immediate shutdown.
Wouldn't boot with three usb devices connected. Any two of the three,
was ok, but not all three.
Replaced the ps with a 750 watt unit with 52 amps on the +12V rail,
and it's been working fine since then.
Johann Klammer
Apr 18, 2013, 7:41:25 PM4/18/13
to
config set?
...if it is one of _those_ chipsets...
Have fun trying all the different combinations...
And if that does not work, try again with all available
versions/combinations of GFX/chipset drivers etc...
Paul
Apr 19, 2013, 1:47:27 AM4/19/13
to
David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 15:45:33 -0400, Skybuck Flying
> <Window...@dreampc2006.com> wrote:
>
>> Well "fok me" (not literally :))
>> The GT 520 actually requires 18 amperes ?! Holy fok ?!
>> And the power supply only delivers 20 amperes max ?!
>> So the theory that the GT 520 might go a bit over 20 seams reasonable...
>
> Especially as there are other devices pulling +12V power.
>
>> I think we might have found our culprit ?!
>> FOOOOOOOOOK.
>> Why the fok does GT 520 need 18 amperes ?!?!?!?!?!?
>
> Heh, the GeForce 9600 GT requires 26. That's why I recognized the
> problem. Had a power supply that was rated for 24 amps on the
> +12V rail. Had spontaneous reboots and shutdowns, with no log
> messages, or obvious causes. Figured out it was the ps when adding
> a third usb device forced an immediate shutdown.
>
> Wouldn't boot with three usb devices connected. Any two of the three,
> was ok, but not all three.
>
> Replaced the ps with a 750 watt unit with 52 amps on the +12V rail,
> and it's been working fine since then.
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>
OMG. The legend of Zelda lives on :-(
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 15:45:33 -0400, Skybuck Flying
> <Window...@dreampc2006.com> wrote:
>
>> Well "fok me" (not literally :))
>> The GT 520 actually requires 18 amperes ?! Holy fok ?!
>> And the power supply only delivers 20 amperes max ?!
>> So the theory that the GT 520 might go a bit over 20 seams reasonable...
>
> Especially as there are other devices pulling +12V power.
>
>> I think we might have found our culprit ?!
>> FOOOOOOOOOK.
>> Why the fok does GT 520 need 18 amperes ?!?!?!?!?!?
>
> Heh, the GeForce 9600 GT requires 26. That's why I recognized the
> problem. Had a power supply that was rated for 24 amps on the
> +12V rail. Had spontaneous reboots and shutdowns, with no log
> messages, or obvious causes. Figured out it was the ps when adding
> a third usb device forced an immediate shutdown.
>
> Wouldn't boot with three usb devices connected. Any two of the three,
> was ok, but not all three.
>
> Replaced the ps with a 750 watt unit with 52 amps on the +12V rail,
> and it's been working fine since then.
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>
Whacking great power supplies are not required.
Intelligence is required !
Think about it. Examine the evidence.
"Wouldn't boot with three usb devices connected.
Any two of the three, was ok, but not all three."
The power supply label may list
+5VSB @ 2A
or it might show
+5VSB @ 3A
When you have a problem with the system falling over, and
the problem seems to be related to the number of USB bus
loads, then the problem is hinting at the +5VSB rating,
not the +12V rating. A 750W supply, has a *huge* 12V rating,
but none of that huge rating is of any consequence, if
the +5VSB was only 2A. It's like a weightlifter with
huge biceps, and tiny thin ankles. You decided, to
"make your biceps bigger", by buying a 750W supply.
In fact, the reason you fell over, was your "ankles
were too small". You're looking for a limitation
in the wrong place. The limitation was elsewhere.
If +5VSB is overloaded, and the output drops out,
the entire system shuts off in response.
How do I research these things ? With a clamp-on DC ammeter.
That allows measuring each DC current flow, and determining
current system state.
It is highly unlikely the Geforce 9600 is "drawing 26 amps".
When NVidia quotes a ridiculous number like that, it is
the sum total of:
CPU power (draws from 12V rail) CPU_watts / 12V = CPU amps
Video card (draws mostly from 12V rail) For Skybuck, it is 2.4 amps
Hard drive motor current, about 12V @ 0.6A per drive
Optical drive, about 12V @ 1.0A when media is inserted
Cooling fans, current draw is printed on fan hub, 0.1 amps
You can work out these numbers, and you'll soon see
that your system doesn't even come close to "26 amps".
This is why I recommend calculating the numbers, for
each rail, and working it out for yourself.
I *hate* when people buy power supplies in ignorance.
You can use a power supply sizing web site. At least
one of the sites is getting closer to doing the calculation
properly. The first sites offering this service (doing
the calculation for you), were off by a factor of 2.
I also do calculations on demand for people, when the need
arises. Once you've determined the size, added a
small amount of margin (say 30% margin on 12V rail),
that should be plenty. Even my calculation is
relatively conservative. For example, the boiler
plate value on my optical drive, is 1.5A (2.5A on
Blu Ray). But using my clamp-on ammeter, I checked
one optical drive here, and with media in the
tray it was 1.0 amps. Measurements can add some
refinement to the calculations.
Let's work some CPU numbers, and see how conservative
they are.
I have a 65W CPU in my backup computer system.
The basic calculation is 65W / 12V = 5.42 amps
That's the amount of 12V current, to supply an
estimated 65W TDP for the processor.
The VCore power converter, is a switching power
supply. It is not 100% efficient. To hint that
is the case, when I do power calculations for
people, I pretend the efficiency is 90%. The
actual figure could be 80% or 85%, it's really
hard to guess. So I use a figure like 90%, to
show the conversion is not 100% efficient. Now
my estimate of CPU current becomes
5.42 amps / 0.90 eff = 6.02 amps
Now, let's study the actual processor. I place the
clamp-on ammeter around the two yellow wires of the
ATX12V 2x2 square connector.
65W CPU (E4700 dual core) - should be 6.02 amps
System idle - current flow 1.1 amps
Run Prime95 100% loading - current flow 3.0 amps
So my E4700 only uses 36 watts flat out (12 volts times 3 amps).
Historically, some of the older S478 (Northwood) processors,
they came very close to their TDP value. Some of the
Core2 processors, the lower end ones, were well under
their TDP rating. My E8400, I think it might have
weighed in around 43 watts or so.
Consequently, when I do a power calc, and I use TDP
as an estimate, it may still be over-estimating the
current draw. Neither of my two processors, draws
the TDP value of 65W.
For Skybuck, his system power draw is 200W. There is
no need for a 750W or 1200W supply, they're just
a waste of money.
And don't forget, that all the rails count. Even
if you have a gazillion watt supply, as long as the
motherboard makers insist on running all the USB bus
power from +5VSB, and the power supplies have no more
than 3 amps to offer, there will be instances of
systems shutting off because of it. On the older
motherboards, a series of jumper plugs on the motherboard,
allowed you to run some USB ports from +5V (main rail,
good for perhaps 20 to 30 amps). Instead of the tiny
+5VSB supply. On modern systems, they stripped the
gold header pins, to save $0.10 per system, leaving
a disaster to await, if too much USB loading is present.
*******
A Kill-O-Watt meter is cheap, and allows you to bound
what your PC is doing. If Skybuck owned one of these,
he could see his system power vary from 80W when the
system was idle, to perhaps 200W when gaming. This
would be immediate evidence, that a 750W or 1200W
supply would be a total waste. These are cheap, and
can tell you whether you're even getting close to the
thermal limit of the ATX supply.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1366349216&sr=8-2&keywords=kill-o-watt
When you want to study system power usage, at the
main ATX cables, you use a clamp-on ammeter to get
the amps. Some clamp-on meters, measure AC amps only,
and are used by central air conditioning installers.
My meter, measures both DC amps and AC amps. And the
PC has DC amps on the major DC outputs of the supply.
http://www.extech.com/instruments/resources/manuals/380947_UM.pdf
The benefits of that meter, versus a conventional ammeter.
1) No need to cut any wires to measure current. Simply
place the jaws around the wires and measure.
2) Meter automatically sums the current in a series of
wires. Clamp the jaws around the two yellow wires on
the ATX12V 2x2 CPU power connector. The magnetic fields
around the wires add (as the current flows in the same
direction in each wire). That's how I can measure the CPU
consumption.
3) The meter uses the Hall Effect, to do the measurement.
The meter can measure huge currents, with no thermal
effects. The meter doesn't get hot. Conventional multimeters
are limited, by the shunt resister inside the meter
overheating. That's why a conventional meter has a
fuse inline, which may blow if you overdo it. My clamp-on
meter doesn't have that limitation. For example, I've
measured the starter motor current on my car, at around
120 amps (defective). The meter hardly even notices.
Since the meter has "peak detection", I can catch the
peaks of the starter motor consumption.
I use the 40A DC range, for "inside the PC" work.
I used the 400A DC range, for working on my car.
I use the 40A AC range, when checking my central air.
A more sensitive DC range would be nice on that meter,
but I can live with it.
HTH,
Paul
MrTallyman
Apr 19, 2013, 1:56:52 AM4/19/13
to
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 01:47:27 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>For Skybuck, his system power draw is 200W. There is
>no need for a 750W or 1200W supply, they're just
>a waste of money.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THAT IS WAHT THE SUPPLY IS RATED AT FULLY LOADED ON
>For Skybuck, his system power draw is 200W. There is
>no need for a 750W or 1200W supply, they're just
>a waste of money.
ALL RAILS.
But in reality one rail IS pushed nearly to it's max. My mini ATX
won't even consider booting with a supply of less than 300W, and even
that one sometimes fails to have it POST up.
I'll bet his system uses more than the number you declared.
Paul
Apr 19, 2013, 2:15:43 AM4/19/13
to
At any instant, the power provided can vary from zero
to the maximum value. If you draw more than the maximum
value, the supply overheats (or OCP) and turns off.
When you use a 750W supply, it does not draw 750W all the
time. The power company bill does not reflect the 750W value.
What it does reflect, is the real usage of power.
Skybucks components draw roughly 200W, by calculation.
200W is a value less than 450W max, of a 450W supply.
Therefore, the supply remains running.
The label of the supply, is actually very informative.
Every number on there means something. The numbers
are not there for window dressing.
Not only does the overall supply have a maximum power
rating (thermal limit perhaps). The supply also has
current flow limits (when the load is unbalanced on
the multiple rails). So it's possible to tip over
a 750W supply, merely by drawing 20W from the 5V @ 3A
max rail. The necessary info is on that label.
The legend of Zelda lives on.
Do the analysis.
This is not a monster truck rally. It's something
you can work out for yourself, using nothing
more than a four function calculator. You can
buy just the right power supply for the job,
and have money left over for beer at the end
of the week.
Paul
MrTallyman
Apr 19, 2013, 6:21:26 AM4/19/13
to
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 02:15:43 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>
>The supply rating, is the maximum value it can provide.
>At any instant,
No shit, you retarded fuck. I do not need a primer. I designed built
>
>The supply rating, is the maximum value it can provide.
>At any instant,
power supplies for a living for years.
I know exactly what the declaration is.
YOU are the one who has the problem.
And you know fuck-all nothing about "skybuck" or his problem(s)
Snipped more stupid shit
>Not only does the overall supply have a maximum power
More proof that you are clueless.
Power supplies are rated to deliver their stated voltage into the
stated loading level at 100% duty, always on.
Any further loading results in a reduced regulated voltage level or an
increased PARD or noise figure. Both of which are unacceptable on a
"power" "supply" meant to power a specific digital device.
So even if the meter still reads 5 Volts, it will not be within the
noise figure spec at all.
snipped more
>Not only does the overall supply have a maximum power
>rating (thermal limit perhaps). The supply also has
>current flow limits (when the load is unbalanced on
>the multiple rails). So it's possible to tip over
>a 750W supply, merely by drawing 20W from the 5V @ 3A
>max rail. The necessary info is on that label.
There is no such term used in the industry.
You mother was "tipped over".
A 15 watt rail cannot deliver 20W regardless of the loading on the
other rails, you stupid ditz!.
YOU cannot "work out" anything with or without your calculator
and you kill-a-watt device.
and YOU probably never ever had a system where you actually taxed the
video card to its limits.
Ever run the CUDA app over at seti@home for a few units worth?
Yeah... you know all about "power draw". NOT!
Skybuck Flying
Jul 22, 2013, 1:44:04 AM7/22/13
to
I think I found the cause of this.
It's actually a feature of the winfast motherboard.
I think it shuts down if the CPU reaches the threshold of 50 degrees celcius
as set in the bios.
I don't know yet how it exactly works... there is also a tolerance of 5...
Hmmm...
Kinda funny.
So it's overheat protection ;)
Bye,
Skybuck.
It's actually a feature of the winfast motherboard.
I think it shuts down if the CPU reaches the threshold of 50 degrees celcius
as set in the bios.
I don't know yet how it exactly works... there is also a tolerance of 5...
Hmmm...
Kinda funny.
So it's overheat protection ;)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Paul
Jul 22, 2013, 6:04:04 AM7/22/13
to
http://www.foxconnchannel.com/ProductDetail.aspx?T=motherboard&U=en-us0000008
http://www.foxconnchannel.com/driverdownload/Motherboard/AMD/Socket939/NF4SK8AA-8KRS/manual/English/NF4SK8AA-manual-En-V1.0.pdf.zip
PDF page 51 "PC Health".
It doesn't say how to adjust it, but tab to the field and try
the "+" and "-" keys.
Paul
0 new messages