Vista - nvidia - clone mode bug
root
Paul
What is the main monitor make and model ?
What is the model number of the Philips 1080p HDTV ?
What resolution and refresh rate are you setting the main monitor
to, when the HDTV doesn't work ?
What happens when you connect both monitors, use Dual View, set
the HDTV to become "monitor #1", then dispose of the main
monitor, then bring the main monitor in as the clone ?
What does the Entechtaiwan Moninfo program report for the HDTV ?
What modes do you see supported or mentioned in there ?
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm
Paul
First of One
2. Tried running your #1 monitor at 1920x1080?
3. Tried another HDMI port on your TV? There may be some silly differences.
Certain Panasonics only "like" a PC plugged into HDMI #2, for example.
--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
"root" <n...@1.invalid> wrote in message
news:g8tbrm$q0q$2...@news.albasani.net...
root
> root wrote:
>
>> I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors,
>> the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the
>> video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the
>> monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a
>> new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode.
>> If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have to use
>> clone mode however. Does
>> anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new
>> video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now
>> unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this
>> specific bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens
>> nonsense. This video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no
>> problem by the way, and it didn't take a week to set up.
>
> What is the main monitor make and model ?
Viewsonic P815, which is normally 1800x1440 max original specs. I have
been using it at 1920x1440 and 1920x1080 on xp for a long time with no
problems. I was able to get these modes several times in vista but the
settings won't hold. I am unable to reproduce the conditions that led to
my original post since on cold boot just now, the higher res modes were
gone once again. To me, the video system appears unstable, but there is
probably some internal logic at work. I have tried tweaking the custom
resolutions in nvidia cp, and editing monitor.inf, but nothing has
worked yet. Once it loses the higher res modes I can't get them back. I
got them initially almost by accident, usually right after installing
the nvidia driver. The settings held through several warm boots. It's
really frustrating. There might be some trick to retain the higher res
modes but I haven't found it, other than just booting the xp partition.
>
> What is the model number of the Philips 1080p HDTV ?
>
> What resolution and refresh rate are you setting the main monitor
> to, when the HDTV doesn't work ?
This is a good idea to check, but as I say, the settings to reproduce
results are blown away by the OS.
>
> What happens when you connect both monitors, use Dual View, set
> the HDTV to become "monitor #1", then dispose of the main
> monitor, then bring the main monitor in as the clone ?
Another good test that I can't do on the higher res modes I had before.
Now, with the limited resolutions for the P815, clone mode seems to
default to 1280x1024 on the P815, and 1920x1080 on the HDTV according to
the display settings UI, which might work, but actually the HDTV appears
to be in some lower mode. So I have a 'clone' mode now but it's funky.
>
> What does the Entechtaiwan Moninfo program report for the HDTV ?
> What modes do you see supported or mentioned in there ?
All the good stuff, 1920x1080 60 hz. etc. I'm on another computer now
otherwise I would just copy it here.
>
> http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm
>
> Paul
root
> I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors, the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode. If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have to use clone mode however. Does anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the way, and it didn't take a week to set up.
Thanks to everyone for answering. I think I have fixed the problem by disabling the CRT's EDID at the hardware level with some needle nose pliers <http://www.overclock.net/faqs/47971-how-set-whatever-res-i-want.html>. I now have Generic Monitor and all the hi-res modes and clone mode at 1920x1080 for the HDTV. It will not be possible for Vista to detect the monitor as a P815 ever again. I apologize in advance for any mistakes, and do not try this at home, etc.
Paul
Cool. Maybe there is a business opportunity here, making dongles
with the EDID disconnected :-) So somehow, a working EDID is a
trigger for some Vista monkey-business.
Paul
root
There seems to be practically ziltch tech documentation for edid and
vista. It appears it enforces edid much more than XP ever did, and its
not the nvidia driver doing this. Now, moving on to the next screw job,
I believe I am finding that my video card, dvd drive, and crt monitor
are not acceptable to vista's media player for playing dvds. I get the
'can't play due to drm blah blah blah' error. I found one powerpoint
that says edid is 'required' on vista. Perhaps by cutting off edid I
will not be able to play dvds with media player. My first test with VLC
(which I use all the time on XP) was a bit disappointing since the HDTV
image seemed degraded with small distortions that I do not see on XP. I
have to run more tests. Honestly, they did a poor job with vista, and I
think I entered into this with an open mind 2 weeks ago. At least if
something won't work they should have technical support docs that really
say something, rather than the few extremely dumbed down support pages
they bothered to write.
Paul
>
> There seems to be practically ziltch tech documentation for edid and
> vista. It appears it enforces edid much more than XP ever did, and its
> not the nvidia driver doing this. Now, moving on to the next screw job,
> I believe I am finding that my video card, dvd drive, and crt monitor
> are not acceptable to vista's media player for playing dvds. I get the
> 'can't play due to drm blah blah blah' error. I found one powerpoint
> that says edid is 'required' on vista. Perhaps by cutting off edid I
> will not be able to play dvds with media player. My first test with VLC
> (which I use all the time on XP) was a bit disappointing since the HDTV
> image seemed degraded with small distortions that I do not see on XP. I
> have to run more tests. Honestly, they did a poor job with vista, and I
> think I entered into this with an open mind 2 weeks ago. At least if
> something won't work they should have technical support docs that really
> say something, rather than the few extremely dumbed down support pages
> they bothered to write.
>
If that is the case, another possibility is -
Investigate reprogramming the EDID. This article is a good jumping off
point, even if it doesn't have every possible answer.
http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/
Gefen has a box, that can store a copy of an EDID, then play it back
to the computer. The Gefen box, would be used like this.
Video_card ----> Gefen ----> Monitor
The EDID comes from the Gefen, the video signal goes to the monitor.
To program the Gefen, you connect it to some monitor, say a
cheap_monitor that has a programmable EDID chip on it. Then
push the button on the Gefen, to get it to copy the monitor
info, to the EDID chip inside the Gefen. The cheap_monitor is
only necessary on the assumption that not all expensive_monitors
will support writing the EDID, and the cheap_monitor is an
intermediate step to give a degree of programmability. Too
bad the Gefen didn't have a local interface that allowed
tinkering. (Besides pulling out the EEPROM inside, and
replacing it with something.)
http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-DVI-EDIDN.pdf
http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/Inside320.jpg (previous generation picture)
I just found this product, and apparently this device
has an RS-232 interface for programming. So you can
stuff a table of your own making, into this box, and
have it played back when the computer attempts to read the
EDID. It is a little bit pricey, but considering how many
of these they'd sell, I suppose it is worth it. I haven't
found a manual for this.
http://www.avenview.com/edid-reader-writer-p-560.html
At this point, I don't know what I'd write in the EDID, to make
Vista like it more. I mean, as soon as Vista realizes a high resolution
(higher than the movie industry likes) is "escaping from the
computer", then anything could happen.
I love experiments :-)
Good luck,
Paul
Mr.E Solved!
>> I have Vista SP 1, nvidia 8800GTS with 177.83 driver, and 2 monitors, the secondary being a philips 1080p hdtv on an hdmi cable from the video card. Finally I have the resolution settings correct for the monitors in Vista, this only took a week to figure out. I now have a new serious bug where there is no video out to the tv in clone mode. If I configure the monitors separately the tv works. I have to use clone mode however. Does anyone know how to fix this sort of problem? I won't be installing new video drivers, I've installed several and I'm off that treadmill now unless someone knows of a driver with a documented fix for this specific bug. I'm sick of the try a new driver, see what happens nonsense. This video configuration works in XP on the same hardware no problem by the way, and it didn't take a week to set up.
>
>
> Thanks to everyone for answering. I think I have fixed the problem by disabling the CRT's EDID at the hardware level with some needle nose pliers <http://www.overclock.net/faqs/47971-how-set-whatever-res-i-want.html>. I now have Generic Monitor and all the hi-res modes and clone mode at 1920x1080 for the HDTV. It will not be possible for Vista to detect the monitor as a P815 ever again. I apologize in advance for any mistakes, and do not try this at home, etc.
>
>
The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh rate
or timing you choose.
Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?
Paul
>
> The P815 has BNC connectors, which do not use EDID data and thusly
> install as the default monitor and can have any resolution refresh rate
> or timing you choose.
>
> Have you ever heard of crippling your hardware to be a solution?
>
I found a spec sheet here, and it does list two inputs. 5 x BNC and
a VGA connector. So the monitor has two inputs listed.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990224145422/http://www.viewsonic.com/prod/DATASHTS/P815/P815SPEC.HTM
To use BNC, which has no EDID, you'd need a BNC to VGA. My old Trinitron came
with such a cable. The cable looks similar to this, with VGA on one end,
and five BNC on the other end, for RGBHV. I didn't realize the P815 was
that old.
http://www.computercableinc.com/ccinc/images/CABLE-SVGA-to-5-BNC-RGB-CCStore.jpg
Paul
root
here somewhere. All I crippled was an extra adapter plug I wasn't using
anyway, and I am satisfied with the results so far. The big regret is
the week I burnt up on this. Tech support from evga and nvidia don't
seem to have a clue about this problem. The last thing I got from them
was they wanted to rma the card.
Media player and media center won't play a dvd because of this hack (I
think), but I have something else for that.
Shawk
Are you getting the issue because there has been a hardware 'change'
that the DRM is designed to look for and doesn't like? In which case
you just go to your DRM folder in Vista and delete everything in there.
New copies of the files are then generated for your 'new' hardware.
I hope its this simple.
Mr.E Solved!
Simple? Nonsense, if you have to fight DRM to get your hardware to work,
then your OS isn't for you.
Anyone who uses Vista this late in the game, with all the facts
available as to Vistas weaknesses and strengths deserves their headaches.
Vista is designed to thwart you, not aid you...once you get your head
wrapped around that concept, you begin to appreciate other user oriented
OSes all the more.
Shawk
While I respect your views on a number of subjects your view on Vista is
at least one service pack out of date.
root
>
> Simple? Nonsense, if you have to fight DRM to get your hardware to work,
> then your OS isn't for you.
If it weren't for my job I'd be over on ubuntu by now.
> Anyone who uses Vista this late in the game, with all the facts
> available as to Vistas weaknesses and strengths deserves their headaches.
Don't agree. It's still early.
> Vista is designed to thwart you, not aid you...once you get your head
> wrapped around that concept, you begin to appreciate other user oriented
> OSes all the more.
I agree. I've read the survey docs on content protection. It's not going
to get any better -- microsoft is organizationally retarded. The media
player UI is so badly designed I'm shocked any time I open it. The media
center UI is also really awful -- extremely uncomfortable navigation,
and the channel guide is wrong, incomplete channel info for my area.
They are only driving people to the alternatives. VLC and BeyondTV are 2
that I use, and they completely blow away what microsoft has. Microsoft
will continue to lock down the content pathways and I don't know how
long these programs will work. It's absurd to pay this much for an
operating system and not be able to set your resolution or play a dvd
right out of the box. I still haven't been able to play a dvd with media
player... I never use it on xp so the same will hold for vista.
root
I have confirmed that media player won't play a dvd because of the
unidentified analog monitor. Using only the hdtv, it plays ok. So I fix
one thing and another thing breaks. Instead of disabling EDID I could
spoof it in some way by reprogramming the monitor (?) or using one of
these gadgets. I wish the video driver could do this but I think they
are contractually obligated to disallow this sort of tinkering. They
have to protect the content pathway, but for a dvd it's sort of silly
since there are several software programs that can copy a dvd. Even if I
could reprogram the EDID to give me more resolution, the presence of an
analog VGA pathway may still force overall degradation by their drm
software. I don't know until I try it, and VLC is way easier instead.
Mr.E Solved!
Vista's SP1 did nothing for this topic, my points are still topical and
the end result is end user disappointment/frustration/disgust/in search
of other solutions.
Don't be disingenuous, you have zero chance of convincing anyone in this
NG of Vista's superiority or even parity to alternative OS solutions,
even without the over-arching DRM deal-breaker.
Mr.E Solved!
Windows DDM is loaded to the gills with DRM and performance crippling
device polling. That's right, many times a second the entire signal
pathway is checked for 'integrity' needlessly complexifying everything.
For what? To make your PC a glorified stand-alone HD-DVD player/ Games
for Windows/XBOX console.
By the way, if any current nvidia/msft/studio employees are in this
thread your paid opinions are noted. Now STFU and GBTW.
Shawk
By your own straw argument your first para was 'topical'. The other two
were neither 'topical' nor factual.
> Don't be disingenuous, you have zero chance of convincing anyone in this
> NG of Vista's superiority or even parity to alternative OS solutions,
> even without the over-arching DRM deal-breaker.
"Disingenuous - Adjective - lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity;
falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere"
I'm none of those but at least you spelled it correctly. Neither am I
trying to convince anyone in this ng of anything but how to potentially
fix a problem. And I couldn't give a shit whether other people like
Vista or not. Unlike you it seems.
Feel free to have the last word - it'll probably matter more to you than me.
Shawk
>
> By the way, if any current nvidia/msft/studio employees are in this
> thread your paid opinions are noted. Now STFU and GBTW.
Lol, I mend trucks so I know you don't mean me...
Mr.E Solved!
Don't be that way, I'm not attacking you, though often times threads can
have the *illusion* of being a personal attack and if I were doing
something so irrational and pointless shame on me. I'll attack incorrect
positions to my hearts content and I hope you will too.
I'll take the last word you kindly offer as your tacit agreement that my
views on Vista are not the least bit out of date and SP1 does nothing
for the OP's issue and also properly credit you for not defending Vista,
you were just trying to be helpful.
DRS
news:oeudnZHvu5EmHinV...@comcast.com
[...]
> By the way, if any current nvidia/msft/studio employees are in this
> thread your paid opinions are noted. Now STFU and GBTW.
STFU I get, but Go Bugger The Wife?
Shawk
Get back to work... but I prefer your first option