TV out on Matrox vs. sVideo out on ATI TV wonder

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rb...@dd.com

unread,
Aug 12, 2002, 2:32:30 PM8/12/02
to
Interesting - can you elaborate a bit more on the measurements as I am
curious.

When you say TV out on the G450, you simply mean the dualhead connector
w/the SVHS or SVideo that you connect to the TV. Are you saying that if you
put an ATI TV wonder card in your PC along w/the G450, you would use the
dualhead to send the video signal to the TV rather than the video out on the
ATI card?

If so, then this explains why most "video capture" cards (apparently a TV
PVR card is a subsety of the the video capture category) do not include TV
Out ports - most users already have them on their video cards.

Then the ? becomes what is the best TV Tuner card - putting aside the issue
of software (which is not to downplay its role), my research indicates the
following card has the best feature set. I would like to get some feedback
on this choice:

MSI TV@nywhere Tuner Card

"Invincible video quality supported by Silicon Tuner & Conexant
CX23881/883 audio/video decoder"

MSI Breaking News

Now you can sit at your office, and browse your home TV programs anywhere,
anytime.

IGNORE THE ? MARKS BELOW - THEY WERE PART OF A COVERSION TO PLAIN TEXT

? MPEG4 Real-time encode TV programs
? Programmable, Minimized Bandwidth Requirement
? Distance less, Real-time, TV Function Control
? Supports S-Video & Composite Video input
? Supports Line-in/out audio jack
? Supports Supreme Cute Remote Controller

Hardware Features
? Invincible video quality supported by Silicon Tuner & Conexant
CX23881/883 audio/video decoder
? Enable to perform excellent adjustable IF output
? Offers global video standards support, including NTSC-M/N,
PAL-B/G/D/K/H/I
? Easy-Adjust Jumper to switch region between PAL-B/G/D/K/H/I
? Easy-Change SAW filter to switch region between NTSC and PAL
? Supports 10-bits video Analog to Digital converter
(Other tuner cards that you can see with CX878 is only 8-bits)
? Adaptive 2-D Comb Filter
(Other tuner cards only use Chroma Comb + Luma Notch)


Software Features
? MPEG4 Real-time encode TV programs
? Crystal clear video display
? Programmable and minimized bandwidth requirement
? Distance less and real-time TV function control
- Client user can real-time change TV channel and any software
setting on the Server side
- Time-Shifting
- Scheduled, real-time and programmable recording
- Supports conversion to all formats: MPEG1, MPEG2 and
MPEG4 (coming soon, please download patch)
- Instant channel preview


"Mike T" <mtallent@high$tream.net> wrote in message
news:J%Q59.181416$oB6.1...@news.easynews.com...
> I have a G450 dual head, and an ATI AIW 8500DV.
>
> The TV out on the G450 looks very good, and measures very good with TV
test
> signals.
>
> The TV out of the ATI looks bad and it measures very bad with TV test
> signals.
>
> The ATI is pretty good capture card, but a bad TV out card.
>
> The Matrox can't be beat for TV out quality.
>
> Don't know how another TV tuner card will work with the G450, but I know
you
> will be disappointed if you do not use the G450 as your TV out card.
>
> Mike T
>
> "rb...@mindspri.com" <rb...@dd.com> wrote in message
> news:Wtw59.76694$sA3....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> > I have a dual head Matrox G450 using the SVideo out to my TV and on DVDs
> the
> > picture looks pretty good.
> > I want a TV card w/a tuner and I am wondering if there is any difference
> in
> > quality; that is will the 450 dual head perform with the same
> functionality
> > and quality as a dedicated SVideo output on a/TV Tuner card w/out any
loss
> > in quality from having to go through an extra device?
> >
> > There does not seem to be many TV cards under $100.00 very few have
SVideo
> > out on the back of the card.
> >
> > I assume you can't upgrade a Matrox G450 by adding a TV tuner
> daugherboard.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


Mike T

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Aug 13, 2002, 12:40:46 AM8/13/02
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"rb...@mindspri.com" <rb...@dd.com> wrote in message
news:2bT59.107921$uj.6...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...

> Interesting - can you elaborate a bit more on the measurements as I am
> curious.

I have designed video equipment for almost 40 years. I have Tektronix TV
test equipment. I use 2 DVD video test disks, Video Essentials and Avia for
measuring the video performance when playing the DVD player to the TV out on
the graphics card. The standard multiburst test signal contains video
frequencies up to 5 MHz, and you measure the video level at each frequency.

The ATI AIW 8500DV reproduces the 5 MHz test frequency at about 20% of what
it should be.

The Matrox G450 reproduces the same 5 MHz test at about 90% of full level,
big difference.

Also the ATI card shows additional frequencies that should not be present,
and are due to improper frequency scaling and poor design. I use a HP
spectrum analyzer to measure these distortion products. You can see this
distortion as a fine vertical grid on the video image when playing DVD
videos, and jagged diagonal lines in video images that are non-existant when
playing the Matrox G450 with the same DVD player software and DVD disk. I
have a 2 year old ATI Rage 128 with TV out and it looks very similar to the
AIW 8500DV, no improvement from ATI in over 2 years on the TV out quality.
I guess the money is spent on 3D gaming speed, which I have no interest in.

>
> When you say TV out on the G450, you simply mean the dualhead connector
> w/the SVHS or SVideo that you connect to the TV. Are you saying that if
you
> put an ATI TV wonder card in your PC along w/the G450, you would use the
> dualhead to send the video signal to the TV rather than the video out on
the
> ATI card?

I use either the G450 or the ATI, I have not been able to get them to
co-exist with Win 2000 Pro.

I use the supplied cables that convert the second HD-15 connector on the
G450 to s-video and composite video. And the break-out cable connector on
the ATI AIW that provides s-video or composite for TV out.

Only the ATI has a TV tuner, and I live 50 miles from the nearest TV
stations, so the tuner is not something I will use, as there is no-cable TV
here either.

>
> If so, then this explains why most "video capture" cards (apparently a TV
> PVR card is a subsety of the the video capture category) do not include TV
> Out ports - most users already have them on their video cards.

I would say that most computer video cards do not have TV out.

>
> Then the ? becomes what is the best TV Tuner card - putting aside the
issue
> of software (which is not to downplay its role), my research indicates the
> following card has the best feature set. I would like to get some feedback
> on this choice:

Can't help you on the TV tuner cards, I really don't have any use for them.

I will say that the AIW 8500DV has a Silicon TV tuner, and you can boil
water on the card near the tuner, they have under-clocked the graphics chip
and the on board memory to help reduce heat on the ATI card. I have added
another fan just to blow on the back of the card to help it from melting.

Mike T

Robert H

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Aug 13, 2002, 9:20:57 AM8/13/02
to

>
>I have designed video equipment for almost 40 years. I have Tektronix TV
>test equipment. I use 2 DVD video test disks, Video Essentials and Avia for
>measuring the video performance when playing the DVD player to the TV out on
>the graphics card. The standard multiburst test signal contains video
>frequencies up to 5 MHz, and you measure the video level at each frequency.
>
>The ATI AIW 8500DV reproduces the 5 MHz test frequency at about 20% of what
>it should be.
>
>The Matrox G450 reproduces the same 5 MHz test at about 90% of full level,
>big difference.
>


Any idea of how the Matrox G400 performs in comparison to the G450? I
have a G400 and I guess I won't be upgrading any time soon for my
TV-out needs!

Robert H
Remove the 'xxx' from my name to email

Mike T

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Aug 13, 2002, 11:50:56 PM8/13/02
to

"Robert H" <valn...@xxxyahoo.xxxcom> wrote in message
news:us1ilusgqvo6khr0r...@4ax.com...

No, I have only measured the G450, I have 2, one AGP and one PCI and they
both work and measure great for TV out.

Mike T


rb...@dd.com

unread,
Aug 14, 2002, 12:59:34 AM8/14/02
to
After reading the views here and sifting throught a hundred or so messages
on the topic culled from Google's ability to search accross Newsgroups, I
concluded the following:

1. The Matrox Dual Head G450 is superior for business applications which
mean the most to me and also have a nearly flawless video out, echoed in the
comments here, and also on my own experience. I have played DVDs from
standalone players and DVD files off of my hard drive on my TV using the
Matrox SVideo out and the image is generally indistinuishable from the image
of a standard DVD player. The Matrox card stays.

2. Therefore my only issue was obtaining a TV Tuner. I went w/the new MSI
TV Tuner card (desribed earlier) which is currently available only in Canada
(and therefore not well known in the US) and which I spotted on EBay from a
Canadian dealer. It uses the latest Conexant chipset and can record to MPEG
4 and Divx. It costs about what an ATI VGA Wonder would cost.

I read a few very favorable reviews of it and went ahead and bought it. I
can always use the SnapStream PVR software of an offering from whoever makes
Powerdvd or Windvd.


"Mike T" <mtallent@high$tream.net> wrote in message

news:zsk69.81998$0b6.8...@news.easynews.com...

Asghar

unread,
Aug 15, 2002, 9:57:28 PM8/15/02
to
Hello

Could you please post what your experience has been with the MSI tv
@nywhere card. I am curious about the MPEG 4 recording. How is the
compression and playback quality?

TIA

rb...@dd.com

unread,
Aug 16, 2002, 12:41:27 AM8/16/02
to
Haven't got the card yet - next week - on the msi website, it says "coming
soon" for the mpeg 4 support.

How do I determine if this card supports WDM? - I assume it does, but not
stated in the literature. Most of the PVR programs require WDM support

"Asghar" <asghar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f32c4be2.02081...@posting.google.com...
> Hellour

Asghar

unread,
Aug 16, 2002, 11:15:00 PM8/16/02
to
Sorry don't know the answers to your questions. I had to search to
find out what the TLAs were.
I had downloaded the manual before but its 2 MBs of disappointment.
Its just an installation card.
Canadacomputers has it listed on their website so I thought it was
available already.


"rb...@mindspri.com" <rb...@dd.com> wrote in message news:<Xn%69.157237$uj.2...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...

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