replaced blown board, need RAID update
no_e...@invalid.com
started overheating the CPU and shutting down.
I had a pair of identical disk drives running
in SATA RAID 1.
When the board went out, I tried to find an
exact replacement. They are no longer available.
So I bought a K9N6PGM2-V2 to replace it. Everything
worked fine except the RAID array is showing up as
2 independent disks. I considered copying everything
off to a USB drive and reinstalling WinXP Pro / SP2
so that I could install the SATA RAID drivers that
came with the new board.
WinXP PRO / SP2 is no longer available and I no
longer have the WinXP Pro / SP2 setup disk for this
computer.
If I try to turn on the RAID operation in the BIOS,
I get a message: "NTLDR not found. Press Cntrl-Alt-Del
to restart"
SO:
Does anyone know of a trick to getting the new RAID
drivers installed in place of the old ones from the
K9N6PGM-F board that was working fine until the board
failed? The only insructions from MSI say to press the
F6 key when installing the OS to get the RAID drivers
installed from a floppy during installation.
The only copy of WinXP PRo that I have is already on
the disks and has SATA RAID drivers for the old board.
I just need to upgrade them.
Many thanks for any suggestions.
Paul
Looking at the available information for the two motherboards,
this transition should have "just worked".
There is a suggestion here.
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/19312/
Basically, the theory goes, you need to "Rebuild" the
array. The question is, how to do this safely.
You can back up one or both of your RAID 1 (mirror) drives.
I use a program like "dd", which is a sector by sector
transfer program. If I had two 250GB RAID 1 disks, I'd take
my 500GB spare, and copy both disks, something like this:
dd if=/dev/hda of=disk0_backup.dd
and that should run, until the entire "hda" drive is copied.
It would copy the MBR (sector 0), all the way up to the end
of the drive. So at least, in theory, no user data gets
lost. The metadata up at the end, may remain hidden, so I
can't be sure that part would get backed up. But you
might not need that anyway, as it is a mirror. (Metadata
is a bit more important with RAID 0, as it might record
the stripe size, which drive is odd, which drive is even,
and so on.)
You can use your own backup techniques, assuming you know
all the important data will be captured. The nice thing
about sector by sector copies, is it doesn't matter what
file systems are there, or even whether they're broken,
the entire thing gets captured. If one of your experiments
fails horribly, you can use the same "dd" command, to put
the drive back as it was before.
dd if=disk0_backup.dd of=/dev/hda
Once you have at least one of the disks copied, you can
go into the RAID BIOS of your new motherboard, and examine
the array status. If the disks are claimed to not be
members of an array, you can make them into an array.
For a mirror, the rebuild process should copy one
disk (the "master") to the other disk, and then
declare the array is fully functional. Since you haven't given
any indication the mirror is "broken" or there is damage
to either of the disks, my assumption is, you don't really
have a preference as to which disk is used as master.
If you examined the disks, while booting something like
a Linux LiveCD (Ubuntu, Knoppix, or the like), and found
one of the disks had a damaged file system, then you'd
probably take more care with which disk is the "master".
If I had concerns, I'd probably erase the "bad" disk with
DBAN, so nothing is left to the imagination with regard
to the second drive. Sometimes, it is hard to have
a good and unique identifier, to separate one disk
from the other. (Look for a serial number, for example,
and perhaps you can tell them apart that way. Maybe
the serial number will appear in the RAID BIOS screen.)
The thing is, the RAID driver currently sitting in your
install, should be ready to work with the new motherboard.
I think the same file is downloaded from MSI, for the two
motherboards you name. And that is why this should "just
work". So once the array status is fixed up, and you have
a mirror with exactly the same parameters as before, the
thing should just "boot and take off".
As long as you have backups, and thoroughly understand
your backup software, there is nothing to worry about.
This brings up another of my favorite topics. Any time
you decide to use RAID, you should experiment with how
to do "maintenance" on the array. For example, "bust" the
array on purpose, while there is nothing of value on it.
Attempt to repair the array, delete the old array,
create a new array, and see if the data is preserved or
not. To make the experiment more realistic, you can erase
one of the disks with something like DBAN, to simulate
the presence of a replacement disk drive, suitable for
rebuilding the array. Once you have some experience using
the RAID BIOS commands, and come to trust them, then the
above description won't be quite so scary. One of the
reasons I have to give the warnings about backups, is
to compensate for the "fear factor" of facing a broken
array, and not really trusting the RAID BIOS screen to
do the job. That is why experiments in advance,
and practice "fire drills", make repairs like this
second nature.
That's my best guess,
Paul
no_e...@invalid.com
september.org:
> Looking at the available information for the two motherboards,
> this transition should have "just worked".
>
> There is a suggestion here.
>
> http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/19312/
>
> Basically, the theory goes, you need to "Rebuild" the
> array. The question is, how to do this safely.
>
...............................................
>
> That's my best guess,
> Paul
>
The RAID BIOS shows the array, but under "boot", it says
"N/A". The array is shown as "healthy" even though I've been
using the SATA0 drive for several weeks as an IDE drive with
the SATA1 drive showing up as drive D and virtually unused.
When I hit <enter> to display the details, both disks show
up properly on that screen.
Thanks for answering.
Paul
For what it's worth, this guide has a couple RAID BIOS screen shots.
I think they're supposed to include a manual similar to this, on
the motherboard CD somewhere. I had trouble finding one of these
for download, so you would not want to lose the motherboard CD.
Nvidia RAID User's Guide NVRAID 2.0
http://h50146.www5.hp.com/lib/doc/manual/workstation/hp_workstation/c00379550/c00379550.pdf
*******
In a thread here, some of the posters had a problem with the
"boot" option in the RAID BIOS screen. They were not able to
make their array marked as bootable.
http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t36862.html
This is purely a guess on my part. Setting the RAID "boot flag",
means the RAID BIOS should consider registering the array as
an Extended Int 0x13 option for the popup boot menu. For
example, somewhere in your main BIOS screen, you set the boot
order. Normally, every storage device would be a candidate
for the boot order (or perhaps offered in a BIOS popup boot
menu). I don't think the intention of the RAID boot flag,
has to do with the MBR. The array you create, is a
"virtual disk", and should be able to hold multiple
partitions. The MBR of the virtual array (sector 0), should
have its own boot flag per partition, and it would also
be possible to not mark any of the MBR entries with the
0x80 boot flag.
So the reason you'd want to set the boot flag in the RAID BIOS
screen, is so the array will be listed as a candidate in the
boot order. If it isn't listed as an item in the boot order,
then perhaps you won't be offered an opportunity to boot from it.
Now, that forums.nvidia.com thread, doesn't have a solution to
the problem. They can see a greyed out "Set boot" option.
The interface design is such, that you define the array first,
and using the "Set boot" in the RAID BIOS, is a separate step.
And that means, it should be offered to you as an option any time
you want it. It isn't like it is some option you forgot at
original definition.
The advice here, is to ignore that boot flag. As long as the
array shows up in the Boot priority BIOS settings area,
you're OK.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=13944&st=0&p=129481&#
( http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t14169.html )
Something is still not right about the state of your disks, and
what you're seeing in the Nvidia RAID BIOS screen. I mean, you
should see an array declared in the RAID BIOS screen. If
you were to go to Windows Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc),
the array should show up as a virtual "Disk 0". You
could have four primary partitions on there if you wanted,
with one of them set as the boot partition.
When you say you see a "C:" and a "D:" as in two separate
partitions in the OS, are the contents of the disks the
same ? Or are they radically different. For example, your
mirror array might be working, but have two partitions on it.
In Disk Management, it would look like this.
+---------+ +-----------+--------------+-----------------+
| Disk 0 | | C: | D: | Unallocated |
+---------+ +-----------+--------------+-----------------+
Basic
xxx GB
Online
Since it is a mirror, it means each of the two disks, has a copy
of the partitions, like this. This would be the physical contents
of the two mirrored disks, used to make that "virtual" disk in
the above Disk Management example.
+-----------+--------------+-----------------+
| C: | D: | Unallocated | Physical disk 0
+-----------+--------------+-----------------+
+-----------+--------------+-----------------+
| C: | D: | Unallocated | Physical disk 1
+-----------+--------------+-----------------+
If you're seeing the following in Windows, it would imply the OS is no longer
using the RAID driver. Since you've enabled the RAID BIOS in the
BIOS setup screen by enabling RAID, that should cause the RAID BIOS
module to load at POST. And when Windows tries to boot, the
VEN/DEV should match a RAID driver and not a regular SATA driver.
If for some reason, the RAID driver isn't loading in Windows, maybe
then you'd see this in Disk Management.
+---------+ +-----------+--------------+-----------------+
| Disk 0 | | C: | Unallocated |
+---------+ +-----------+--------------+-----------------+
Basic
xxx GB
Online
+---------+ +-----------+--------------+-----------------+
| Disk 1 | | D: | Unallocated |
+---------+ +-----------+--------------+-----------------+
Basic
xxx GB
Online
In the BIOS setup screen, where you have the option to "Enable RAID",
have you enabled RAID on all the RAID disks. In a Foxconn manual for
your chipset, I see this kind of menu in the BIOS screen. You'd want
at least three "enables" here, so the drives would be checked for
their metadata.
RAID Enable [Enable]
SATA 1 Primary RAID [Enable]
SATA 1 Secondary RAID [Enable]
...
If what you're seeing is the two separate disks (Disk 0, C: and
Disk 1, D:), then the question is, why has Windows used what looks
like a regular SATA driver, rather than the RAID driver that had been
installed with the previous motherboard ?
I'm no RAID wizard here, I'm just working through the logic of the thing.
Paul
no_e...@invalid.com
news:hu7cas$jel$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
<snip>
The second scenario is what's happening. If I unplug the second
drive (SATA 1) before turning on the computer, all that I see in
Windows is Drive C:
I'll look for the 3 enables. That is new to me. I didn't see
where they were available just in passing. I only found the first
one.
Again, thanks for the help.
no_e...@invalid.com
news:hu7cas$jel$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
<snip>
> In the BIOS setup screen, where you have the option to "Enable RAID",
> have you enabled RAID on all the RAID disks. In a Foxconn manual for
> your chipset, I see this kind of menu in the BIOS screen. You'd want
> at least three "enables" here, so the drives would be checked for
> their metadata.
>
> RAID Enable [Enable]
> SATA 1 Primary RAID [Enable]
> SATA 1 Secondary RAID [Enable]
> ...
>
> If what you're seeing is the two separate disks (Disk 0, C: and
> Disk 1, D:), then the question is, why has Windows used what looks
> like a regular SATA driver, rather than the RAID driver that had been
> installed with the previous motherboard ?
>
My CMOS BIOS only allows setting the RAID to "RAID" or "IDE".
The second 2 enables aren't available either in CMOS nor
RAID BIOS. "RAID enable" is not there. In the RAID BIOS,
the array shows up as "healthy" (although that's not possible
at this point: C: has been added to while D: has been untouched).
When I press "ENTER to see details", both disks show up as RAID
but it is an info-only screen: the only option is to "Hit ENTER
to Return".
Incidently, the first page of the RAID BIOS even tells me that
it is a mirroring array.
So I return to the original question: how do I install the new
RAID drivers over the old ones without reinstalling Windows XP
which I can't purchase anymore?
Again, many thanks for answering.
Paul
I can think of a couple things to check first.
Look for the "setupapi.log" file on your C: drive. It shows newly
detected hardware, and the response in the way of drivers. The
file "rolls over" and the OS starts a new one, so you may see
several of those files.
The RAID download from the MSI site, is the same for both those
motherboards. 3,078,697 bytes.
http://download2.msi.com/files/downloads/dvr_exe/NVIDIA_MCP61_sataraid_XP.zip
Inside the WinXP/sataraid folder, I can find nvrd32.inf .
When the OS has a driver installed, the example of an INF
there, is anonymized as something like "OEM23.inf". If
you look in the INF folder, you'll see a collection of
OEM items, and they're the result of driver installations.
So in principle, if you do a text search in that folder, one
of the OEMxx.inf files should match the nvrd32.inf .
When you look in nvrd32.inf, you'll see lines like this. A portion
of this text, would be suitable in a text search of the INF folder.
%NVSTOR_DESC%=Crush11_Inst,PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_03F6&CC_0104
The CC thing is a "Class Code", as defined in the ACPI spec.
I presume somewhere, the various numbers are documented.
It would seem that "0104" stands for RAID, while "0106"
might be AHCI. Not really sure though.
The other part, the VEN and DEV, is Plug and Play bus
information. Each "PCI bus" device has a VEN and DEV.
That includes the controllers inside the chipset.
And those numbers, if there is a "hit" in an INF, help
determine what driver to load. The "setupapi.log" file
records the installation of a driver (or reinstallation,
in cases where a user has been flicking controls on and
off in the BIOS).
Other interesting parts of that INF file, include down
near the end, where there is mention of a "Service" being
installed. Now, if you managed to disable a service like
that, chances are your OS would be dead in the water.
A program like Sysinternals Autoruns could possibly be
used to disable one of those "services", but then you'd be
screwed, as far as I know.
And that's the part that doesn't make sense to me.
Normally, systems *hate* driver changes, like SATA to RAID,
or RAID to SATA, and you'll get an error at bootup, stating
the system disk can't be accessed. The Plug and Play should
have helped prevent the system from changing from one
driver type to the other.
If you use a tool like the free version of Everest, you can
investigate the various VEN/DEV values of devices on the
bus. What you're looking for here, is whether there is
something like
VEN_10DE&DEV_03F6&CC_0104
being declared by the hardware or not. The "setupapi.log" file
should also help you in this regard. Between the values
in Everest, the setupapi.log file, the OEMxx.inf files,
you may be able to figure out what is going on.
(Last free Everest - the latest version can be purchased from Lavalys.com)
http://majorgeeks.com/download4181.html
*******
So, say you're sitting in the OS right now. You think a
"non-RAID" or nvstor driver of some sort is running.
You download a Mediashield driver and try to install
it. The theory is, the VEN/DEV/CC value would not
match the value in the driver, and the driver would
refuse to install. That's why I can't just say to you
"why don't you reinstall the driver"
I have no faith that is going to work. You can certainly
try it, but based on the fact your system seems to be
running in a non-RAID mode, I don't see a reason for that
to do anything good.
The above 3,078,697 byte download I mentioned, is for
an F6 floppy to be used while Windows is being installed.
It has a SATA_IDE and a SATA_RAID folder. Each folder
has its own TXTSETUP.OEM file. That file is normally
at the root level of an F6 floppy, which is a way of
telling you, you'd copy the contents of the SATA_RAID
folder to a floppy, such that there are about 30+ loose
files on the floppy.
That is not a suitable installer for installation while
you're in Windows. So that download is not the one to
use to experiment with installing Mediashield.
If I look at a random example of a chipset driver package
from Nvidia, I see things like this listed as being a
component part of the package. One of those chipset driver
packages should be on your motherboard CD. If you want
to download one, they can be many times the size of a
focused one for your chipset. I've seen some "jumbo"
packages, supporting many OSes, that are 200 or 300MB.
(Note - this isn't the one you want necessarily, it's
just the first example I could find. Your chipset is part
of the MCP61 family.)
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_32_15.08.html
This WinXP 32-bit nForce UDA driver package for
MCP51, MCP61, MCP72, MCP73, MCP78, and MCP7A consists <--- MCP61
of the following components:
* Ethernet Driver (v67.58) "WHQL"
* Network Management Tools (v67.61) "Sedona"
* SMBus Driver (v4.60) "WHQL"
* Installer (v5.62)
* SataRAID Driver (v9.95) "WHQL" <----- Driver
* SataIDE Driver (v9.95) "WHQL"
* RAIDTOOL Application (v9.99) "Sedona" <----- Raid Management ?
* SMU Driver (v1.31) "WHQL"
OK, I just finished downloading this chipset package from MSI. 165,592,423 bytes
http://download2.msi.com/files/downloads/dvr_exe/mcp_x32_mb.zip
I suspect the SataRAID Driver and RAIDTOOL are in the
IDE folder. The RAIDTOOL is stored in RAIDTOOL.cab .
The overall installer (Installshield ? - I can't open it),
probably has "tick boxes" for controlling the drivers
you want to install.
If you want to find the latest, go to the Nvidia download page.
I think this is the one you'd want for your board. I'm assuming
WinXP in this example.
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index5.aspx?lang=en-us
Legacy
nForce 4 Series
nForce 430 / GeForce 6150SE
Windows XP
English (US)
and that will offer a 162MB chipset package similar to the
MSI one.
# SATARAID Driver (v10.3.0.46) WHQL
# RAIDTOOL Application (v10.3.0.46)
# Installer (v6.69)
As always, you should have a "backup", before performing brain
surgery. Because your driver situation seems to be screwed up,
I don't have a lot of confidence you won't be seeing a blue screen
and a 7E on your next reboot.
Good luck,
Paul