P2B-DS how far can I go

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Molbo

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Jan 7, 2004, 4:27:05 PM1/7/04
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I have a P2B-DS and I would like to know how fast a CPU I can use. My
maximal jumper-settings are 6x112. But is it possible to override the
multiplier and use a 800MHz CPU? And is it stable to use at 112MHz FSB?

Regarding the last question I have some comments. I know I will have to
use RAMs that can run at that speed, and I have only a networkcard in
the PCI-bus.

hope you can help me.

Regards
Molbo

DaveW

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Jan 7, 2004, 7:14:44 PM1/7/04
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I believe you'll find that an 800MHz P4 CPU uses a different socket than the
one on your motherboard. So no go.

--
DaveW

"Molbo" <mo...@retel.dk> wrote in message
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Paul

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Jan 7, 2004, 6:39:41 PM1/7/04
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For the absolute fastest, see these links. The author of this webpage
visits here frequently:

http://www.tipperlinne.com/p2bmod.htm (main webpage - see picture at bottom)
http://www.tipperlinne.com/p2b-ds.htm (slightly easier mod)

Amazing things are possible with a few mods. Having the right revision
of board helps. Some other info is available here on Roland's page.
This page is best viewed if printed on large paper, so you can mark up the
table while reading the document:

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/rscheidegger/p2b_procupgrade_faq.html

Most of the processors you will be interested in are multiplier locked.
This means that the multiplier jumpers or switches are ineffective
and can be ignored. The multiplier value can be an issue for the BIOS,
and the latest BIOS will be needed to work with the higher speed
processors.

Stability is determined partially by the clock gen. For example,
my motherboard, a P2B-S, uses a chip that isn't guaranteed to work
at over 100MHz, and the clock gen generally operates in an unsatisfactory
manner above 112 MHz. "P2B" knows how to replace these, by recycling
the "good" type of clock gens from dead boards, and that is how the
higher frequencies can be accessed. Apparently, you cannot buy a new
clockgen of the correct type without a large minimum quantity purchase.
While I've replaced the voltage regulator on my P2B-S, with my crude
techniques the risks are too high to consider upgrading my clock gen
myself.

The 440BX chip itself seems to be capable of great things, as long as
you are using an AGP video card that can handle the resulting higher
AGP clock rate, when attempting the really high FSB clock settings.
For example, an FSB of 150MHz will run the PCI at 37.5MHz (via a 1/4
divider that is engaged at 133MHz or higher), while the AGP is 100MHz
(via the 2/3 AGP divider setting). The AGP of 100MHz is significantly
higher than the 66MHz nominal value. Many Nvidia cards can take the
high clock, but I've heard there are a couple of ATI cards that cannot
take more than 75MHz or so (9700 ? 9800 ?).

Posting your video card type and ram type (PC133 CAS2 or whatever
you are using) plus the motherboard revision number, would help us
to recommend some options. Also, whether you have cash to upgrade
the other components on your board, or even how much you have to
spend on processors, as there are some really expensive Tualatin
Server processors you might still be able to buy. It really
depends on how far you want to go.

HTH,
Paul

daytripper

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Jan 7, 2004, 8:27:38 PM1/7/04
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:14:44 GMT, "DaveW" <no...@zero.org> wrote:

>I believe you'll find that an 800MHz P4 CPU uses a different socket than the
>one on your motherboard. So no go.

Ahem. Kindly pay attention, he never said anything about a P4 processor...

/daytripper

Robert Hancock

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Jan 7, 2004, 11:01:19 PM1/7/04
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The multiplier jumper settings are irrelevant for any non-ancient CPU (i.e.
one that is multiplier locked, anything from about PII-350 onward); the CPU
will run at the correct multiplier regardless of the motherboard settings.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/


"Molbo" <mo...@retel.dk> wrote in message
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P2B

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Jan 8, 2004, 12:41:15 AM1/8/04
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Molbo wrote:

Nothing I can add to Paul's post, he's got you covered :-)

I'm still hoping one day I'll be able to get a P2B-DS stable at faster
than dual 1470Mhz (2 x P3-S 1.4Ghz @ 140Mhz FSB), but ATM it looks like
the only way that will happen is if I get my hands on P3-S tB1
engineering samples with support for multipliers over 10.5x - the ones I
have are tA1 stepping and won't POST past 9.5x :-(

If anyone has a lead... it's a good cause, really :-)

P2B

Molbo

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Jan 8, 2004, 6:25:31 AM1/8/04
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I don't know how to see what revision I have, so I would like a little help.
I don't use a videocard since it is just a server. Just a netcard (Intel
1Gbit).
I have planned to use about $150

Regards
Molbo

Molbo

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Jan 8, 2004, 6:34:14 AM1/8/04
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> I don't know how to see what revision I have, so I would like a little
> help.
> I don't use a videocard since it is just a server. Just a netcard (Intel
> 1Gbit).
> I have planned to use about $150

I forgot my RAM. Right now I only have PC100, so I will have to get some
new (they are not included in the $150.

Regards
Molbo

Molbo

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Jan 8, 2004, 8:12:38 AM1/8/04
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> I don't know how to see what revision I have, so I would like a little
> help.

I gave it a second look and now I know. It is 1.04.

Paul

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Jan 8, 2004, 5:23:14 PM1/8/04
to

The rev. is printed on the board in white letters. The PCBA (printed
circuit board assembly number) is printed next to a bar code. See
the pictures at the bottom of this web page for examples.

http://www.asuscom.de/support/FAQ/faq077_Pentium_III_CU.htm

$150 won't go too far. You could keep your current ram and buy two
Pentium 1000/100 or so. If you have rev 1.06 pcba D03, I think that
board has voltage regulators that can go below 1.8 volts, so voltage
wouldn't be an issue. If your voltage regulators don't go below 1.8
volts, then for coppermine processors, modding the VID code to indicate
1.8 volts will work, without endangering the processors, while for
tualatin server processors, you would need a Powerleap PLP3/SMP,
which would make for a very expensive upgrade.

Since the Tualatin Server chips with 512KB caches are expensive,
perhaps there is a Coppermine Pentium in your future. There
was a claim that there were still 1000/100 SECC2 modules available
at retail, but not in my city. The FCPGA chips could also be
used, but the slocket to use and the details depend on your board
revision, so post that when you find it.

Even if you don't find the revision number, you can always look at
the voltage regulator chips themselves. From Roland's FAQ:

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/rscheidegger/p2b_procupgrade_faq.html

Chips that can provide voltages down to 1.3V:
HIP6019BCB
HIP6004CB
HIP6004BCB
US3007CW

Chips that can only provide voltages down to 1.8V:
HIP6019CB
HIP6004ACB

Judging by the picture in the P2B-DS motherboard manual, one voltage
regulator chip is next to the ATX 20 pin connector, while the other is
between the two processor slots. The chips are different, because
the bigger chip produces auxiliary voltages for both processors. The
smaller chip probably only makes Vcore for its processor.

Hmm. I just checked pricewatch and found a 1000/100 SECC2 module.
It is $300 !!!

http://www.ZipZoomFly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80607

Newegg has the Tualatin 1.4GHz/133MHz/512KB for $205, so even if you
underclocked it, it would still be cheaper than the SECC2 module.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=1&sumit=Go&description=N82E16819114170&searchdepa=1

To use that Tualatin cheaply, you'll need two Asus S370DL slockets
or two Upgradeware Slot-T modules with a resistor modded on each one.
These can be used with a rev 1.06 PCBA D03 or greater motherboard.

http://tipperlinne.com/slot-t.htm (modding for dual operation)
http://www.strattoncomputer.com/ (slot-t $20)

It doesn't look like I'm getting very close to your price target.
If you could be happy with one standalone processor, the best you could
do is a Tualatin 1.4Ghz/100MHz/256KB processor. A quick search isn't
turning any of those up at retail, leaving the $119.95 Powerleap PL-iP3/T
with the 1.4Ghz/100MHz/256KB as an option.

Looks like the upgrade scene has become too expensive since the last
time I looked !

HTH,
Paul

Molbo

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Jan 9, 2004, 2:16:26 AM1/9/04
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> The rev. is printed on the board in white letters. The PCBA (printed
> circuit board assembly number) is printed next to a bar code. See
> the pictures at the bottom of this web page for examples.

It is Rev 1.04

I thought that it was just me that was stupid

> Newegg has the Tualatin 1.4GHz/133MHz/512KB for $205, so even if you
> underclocked it, it would still be cheaper than the SECC2 module.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=1&sumit=Go&description=N82E16819114170&searchdepa=1
>
> To use that Tualatin cheaply, you'll need two Asus S370DL slockets
> or two Upgradeware Slot-T modules with a resistor modded on each one.
> These can be used with a rev 1.06 PCBA D03 or greater motherboard.
>
> http://tipperlinne.com/slot-t.htm (modding for dual operation)
> http://www.strattoncomputer.com/ (slot-t $20)
>
> It doesn't look like I'm getting very close to your price target.
> If you could be happy with one standalone processor, the best you could
> do is a Tualatin 1.4Ghz/100MHz/256KB processor. A quick search isn't
> turning any of those up at retail, leaving the $119.95 Powerleap PL-iP3/T
> with the 1.4Ghz/100MHz/256KB as an option.

I cannot find any 1.4GHz/100MHz/256KB, where do you see that. I thought
that I might go for a single Tualatin now and then later when I can
afford it get the second one. What about that idea?

> Looks like the upgrade scene has become too expensive since the last
> time I looked !

Sometimes you have to sacrifice.

Regards
Molbo

Paul

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Jan 9, 2004, 4:16:30 PM1/9/04
to
In article <btlkfu$31a2$1...@news.cybercity.dk>, Molbo <mo...@retel.dk> wrote:

> > The rev. is printed on the board in white letters. The PCBA (printed
> > circuit board assembly number) is printed next to a bar code. See
> > the pictures at the bottom of this web page for examples.
>
> It is Rev 1.04

I think that means the voltage regulator only goes down to 1.8V. This
is fine for use with Coppermine processors that use 1.65, 1.70, or 1.75
volts, but the Tualatin processors use 1.5V and have an absolute
max of 1.75 volts. When you have the "wrong" voltage regulators, your
options are:

1) Find a slocket with VID jumpers/switches. Set the switches to
request 1.8V from the motherboard (the lowest it will go). Put
a Coppermine Pentium processor (if doing "duals") or a Coppermine
Celeron processor (if you never want to use more than a single
processor). An Asus S370DL might be an option for use with the
Coppermine Pentium for "dualing". The manual is here:
http://ftp.ncku.edu.tw/Vendors/ASUS/mb/cpu_card/s370-dl.pdf
2) Replace the voltage regulators with a later version of the
same model number. For example, I've replaced a HIP6004ACB
with a HIP6004BCB, to get VID codes for less than 1.8V to be
recognized. Mod is easier if you use "chipquik" low temp alloy
solder during the removal process, which makes it easier to
separate the chip from the board (www.digikey.com). Some voltage
regulator replacements can be purchased at newark.com, while
others are hard to find.
3) Use a Powerleap adapter. The PL-iP3/T is suitable for use with
a single processor only (AFAIK). The PLP3/SMP is for dual
configurations (buy one now, buy a second one later). I've never
seen any posts in this group regarding using the PLP3. Both these
slockets have their own voltage regulator that can work to give
1.5V to Tualatin Celeron or Tualatin Pentium processors.

You could look on Ebay, but it won't take the people there long to
figure out what that SECC2 is worth. Someone claimed once that there
were thousands of SECC2 1GHz modules left at retail, but I guess the
vendors all think corporations are buying them, thus the elevated
price.

>
> > Newegg has the Tualatin 1.4GHz/133MHz/512KB for $205, so even if you
> > underclocked it, it would still be cheaper than the SECC2 module.
> >
> >
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=1&sumit=Go&description=N82E16819114170&searchdepa=1
> >
> > To use that Tualatin cheaply, you'll need two Asus S370DL slockets
> > or two Upgradeware Slot-T modules with a resistor modded on each one.
> > These can be used with a rev 1.06 PCBA D03 or greater motherboard.
> >
> > http://tipperlinne.com/slot-t.htm (modding for dual operation)
> > http://www.strattoncomputer.com/ (slot-t $20)
> >
> > It doesn't look like I'm getting very close to your price target.
> > If you could be happy with one standalone processor, the best you could
> > do is a Tualatin 1.4Ghz/100MHz/256KB processor. A quick search isn't
> > turning any of those up at retail, leaving the $119.95 Powerleap PL-iP3/T
> > with the 1.4Ghz/100MHz/256KB as an option.
>
> I cannot find any 1.4GHz/100MHz/256KB, where do you see that. I thought
> that I might go for a single Tualatin now and then later when I can
> afford it get the second one. What about that idea?

If you buy a slocket and a 1.4GHz/100MHz/256KB Tualatin Celeron, that is
only suitable for running a single processor. So, buying a second one
of these won't work. And, since the PL-iP3/T had problems with its
arbitration logic, even if you buy one of the products labelled "Pentium"
or "P3", that still won't be enough to get it to work as a "dual", unless
Powerleap has fixed their bug. You might try emailing them to find out whether
the PLP3/SMP is considered the "bug fix", or the latest PL-iP3/T is
also guaranteed to work. The $119 option (you can only use one of these)
is on this page, as "PL-iP3/T 1.4 GHz Intel Celeron":

http://plpadmin.tempdomainname.com/PLiP3T.html

If what you need is just the fastest single thread of execution, then
the $119 option will do that for you - if you really like the performance
of duals (snappy desktop while second processor runs at 100%), the duals
option will be more expensive.

The FSB is 100MHz on the "PL-iP3/T 1.4 GHz Intel Celeron", so the fourth
jumper mod on the motherboard isn't needed - the
"PL-iP3/T 1.4 GHz Intel Celeron" is a single processor, mod-free upgrade.

The Powerleap SMP option is here:

http://plpadmin.tempdomainname.com/PLP3SMP.html (no prices shown)
http://powerleap.ca/Products/Server-Upgrades.htm (this site may not be
affiliated with the main powerleap site - it may be a reseller - but
the prices are frightening. $1300 CDN = ~$1000 US for a pair of 1.4G/133/512KB
Tualatin Server modules.

Even if you do this, as "P2B" has discovered and documented on his website,
you will need the "fourth switch" added to your motherboard, to get the
coveted 133MHz FSB/33MHz PCI/89MHz AGP. Without the fourth jumper, the
clock gen gives 133MHz/44MHz/89MHz, which pushes the PCI too far.

http://tipperlinne.com/p2b-ds150.htm

>
> > Looks like the upgrade scene has become too expensive since the last
> > time I looked !
>
> Sometimes you have to sacrifice.
>
> Regards
> Molbo

If you had a rev 1.06 PCBA D03, then you could use two Slot-T modules (doing
the arbitration logic mod of moving one resistor on each) plus a Pentium
processor in each that supports SMP. If the processors ran at 100MHz FSB, then
no motherboard mod would be needed. If the processor needed 133MHz, then the
"fourth jumper" mod on the motherboard would be needed. Since your rev 1.04
has voltage regulators that only go down to 1.8V, the Slot-T will still work,
but you are restricted to Coppermine processors. (Hope I got all that right :-)

With your rev 1.04, some Coppermine 1GHz Pentium processors plus Slot-T slockets
with resistor mod and VID set to 1.8V, will work. Some Pentium processors are
listed on this Pricewatch page, under P3 1GHz. Note that these all seem to be
133MHz processors, so that "fourth jumper" mod comes to mind again.

http://www.pricewatch.com/1/3/2448-1.htm

This is one project where either you needs bags of money or are very
handy with a soldering iron :-)

Also, when you've decided on what hardware route you want to take, make
sure to check processorfinder.intel.com and use the five character S-Spec
or the longer string "order code" and check to see just what kind of
processor is being offered. Since so much of the product remaining at
retail is the "hard to use" stuff, either check it out before purchase
or ask some more questions here, so you don't get stuck with a box
full of "garbage".

Have fun,
Paul

P2B

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Jan 9, 2004, 11:15:18 PM1/9/04
to

Paul wrote:
> In article <btlkfu$31a2$1...@news.cybercity.dk>, Molbo <mo...@retel.dk> wrote:
>
>
>>>The rev. is printed on the board in white letters. The PCBA (printed
>>>circuit board assembly number) is printed next to a bar code. See
>>>the pictures at the bottom of this web page for examples.
>>
>>It is Rev 1.04
>
>
> I think that means the voltage regulator only goes down to 1.8V. This

Correct. P2B-DS rev 1.04 minimum Vcore 1.8v, maximum FSB 112Mhz.

> is fine for use with Coppermine processors that use 1.65, 1.70, or 1.75
> volts, but the Tualatin processors use 1.5V and have an absolute
> max of 1.75 volts. When you have the "wrong" voltage regulators, your
> options are:
>
> 1) Find a slocket with VID jumpers/switches. Set the switches to
> request 1.8V from the motherboard (the lowest it will go). Put
> a Coppermine Pentium processor (if doing "duals") or a Coppermine
> Celeron processor (if you never want to use more than a single
> processor). An Asus S370DL might be an option for use with the
> Coppermine Pentium for "dualing". The manual is here:
> http://ftp.ncku.edu.tw/Vendors/ASUS/mb/cpu_card/s370-dl.pdf

AFAIK the Asus S370-DL is the *only* slot adapter which can run dual
Coppermines on a P2B-DS out of the box.

> 2) Replace the voltage regulators with a later version of the
> same model number. For example, I've replaced a HIP6004ACB
> with a HIP6004BCB, to get VID codes for less than 1.8V to be
> recognized. Mod is easier if you use "chipquik" low temp alloy
> solder during the removal process, which makes it easier to
> separate the chip from the board (www.digikey.com). Some voltage
> regulator replacements can be purchased at newark.com, while
> others are hard to find.
> 3) Use a Powerleap adapter. The PL-iP3/T is suitable for use with
> a single processor only (AFAIK). The PLP3/SMP is for dual
> configurations (buy one now, buy a second one later). I've never
> seen any posts in this group regarding using the PLP3. Both these
> slockets have their own voltage regulator that can work to give
> 1.5V to Tualatin Celeron or Tualatin Pentium processors.

Both the current revision PL-ip3/T (2.0?) and the PL-P3/SMP can run dual
Tualatin P3-S processors on the P2B-DS out of the box - but they don't
make much sense because Tualatin P3-S are 133Mhz FSB processors, and the
only P2B-DS that supports 133Mhz FSB (Rev 1.06 D03) also supports 1.5v
Vcore.

You can use Powerleap adapters to run Tualatin P3-S processors at less
than rated speed on older P2B-DS revisions, with performance
significantly higher than Coppermines at similar clock speeds due
(primarily) to the larger L2 cache - but certainly not by enough to
justify the additional cost.

IMHO, on a price/performance basis, the best CPU upgrade for a P2B-DS
rev 1.04 is a pair of 1.0 or 1.1Ghz 100Mhz FSB Coppermines running at
1.8v on S370-DL adapters if you can find them, or modified Slot-T
adapters if you can't. This configuration will almost certainly
overclock to 112Mhz FSB, the maximum supported by the board.

[snip]

> The Powerleap SMP option is here:
>
> http://plpadmin.tempdomainname.com/PLP3SMP.html (no prices shown)
> http://powerleap.ca/Products/Server-Upgrades.htm (this site may not be
> affiliated with the main powerleap site - it may be a reseller - but
> the prices are frightening. $1300 CDN = ~$1000 US for a pair of 1.4G/133/512KB
> Tualatin Server modules.

Powerleap.ca is indeed the affiliated and official distributer of
Powerleap products in Canada, and the scary prices are correct. Last
time I asked, a pair of PL-P3/SMP with 1.4Ghz processors and 1U copper
coolers were $US995 from Powerleap USA. The adapters are not sold
separately.

[snip]

> With your rev 1.04, some Coppermine 1GHz Pentium processors plus Slot-T slockets
> with resistor mod and VID set to 1.8V, will work. Some Pentium processors are
> listed on this Pricewatch page, under P3 1GHz. Note that these all seem to be
> 133MHz processors, so that "fourth jumper" mod comes to mind again.

All Coppermine Socket 370 processors will work on modified Slot-T
adapters set to 1.8V, but 133Mhz processors will be underclocked.
Coppermine P3 1Ghz Socket 370 processors were manufactured in both
100Mhz FSB and 133Mhz FSB versions. They are often available on eBay,
with the 133Mhz versions commanding a premium.

The fourth jumper modification only applies to the P2B-DS rev 1.06 D03 -
all earlier versions have a clock chip with only 3 FSB jumper inputs and
a maximum output of 112Mhz.

Molbo

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Jan 12, 2004, 4:31:16 PM1/12/04
to
I would like to thank you all for your advice. I am not sure that it
will help since I am not prepared to use $500 just to upgrade my server.
It might just be cheaper now to buy a dual Opteron.

But maybe I get lucky and find some cheap Pentium IIIs.

Best Regards
Molbo

JTS

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Mar 4, 2005, 11:51:49 AM3/4/05
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