Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Gateway confusion
4 views
Skip to first unread message
twlllmxxx
Feb 13, 2013, 4:41:29 PM2/13/13
to
I've got 3 or 4 computers on a LAN. From all computers and either
browser (FF or IE), I get the same result: DNS can't find google.com.
If I type in an IP address for google, I can get right to it. If I
bypass the router and go directly to the cable modem, I can type in
google.com and get right to it.
Sounds like a router problem. The strange thing is this problem only
exists for google.com. As far as I know, all other URLs are recognized
by the DNS.
So I'm trying to figure out what can go wrong with a router that it
only malfunctions on one single URL, google.com. But my knowledge in
these matters is limited.
Trying to research it out, I come to this mystery: ipconfig says my
default gateway is one thing, and my router status page says it's
something else.
What on earth is going on?
This is a signature line.
browser (FF or IE), I get the same result: DNS can't find google.com.
If I type in an IP address for google, I can get right to it. If I
bypass the router and go directly to the cable modem, I can type in
google.com and get right to it.
Sounds like a router problem. The strange thing is this problem only
exists for google.com. As far as I know, all other URLs are recognized
by the DNS.
So I'm trying to figure out what can go wrong with a router that it
only malfunctions on one single URL, google.com. But my knowledge in
these matters is limited.
Trying to research it out, I come to this mystery: ipconfig says my
default gateway is one thing, and my router status page says it's
something else.
What on earth is going on?
This is a signature line.
Char Jackson
Feb 13, 2013, 6:09:05 PM2/13/13
to
On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:41:29 -0700, twlllmxxx <dogb...@twilliam.org>
wrote:
>I've got 3 or 4 computers on a LAN. From all computers and either
>browser (FF or IE), I get the same result: DNS can't find google.com.
>If I type in an IP address for google, I can get right to it. If I
>bypass the router and go directly to the cable modem, I can type in
>google.com and get right to it.
What I assume from that is that each of your computers is configured to use
DHCP to acquire its IP address and Netmask, DNS server IP, and Gateway IP.
While each computer will have a different IP address, (naturally), all of
them will share the same values for Netmask, DNS server, and Gateway IP.
Further, the DNS server IP and the Gateway IP (and the DHCP server IP) will
all be the same, and will all be the LAN IP of your router. So far, so good.
>Sounds like a router problem. The strange thing is this problem only
>exists for google.com. As far as I know, all other URLs are recognized
>by the DNS.
The first thing to check is the router - what is it using for a DNS server
IP? Can you change it? If the router allows that value to be changed, try an
open DNS server such as the ones from OpenDNS, Google, etc. For testing,
since they are easy to remember, I use Google (8.8.8.8) and Level 3 (4.2.2.1
thru 4.2.2.6). In your case, I would try Google's DNS because it would be
ironic indeed if their own DNS couldn't find the Google domain.
If your router doesn't allow you to change the DNS IP's, consider changing
them on your computers. Your computers don't have to use your router's IP as
their DNS server IP; you can enter actual DNS server IP's in those fields.
>So I'm trying to figure out what can go wrong with a router that it
>only malfunctions on one single URL, google.com. But my knowledge in
>these matters is limited.
>
>Trying to research it out, I come to this mystery: ipconfig says my
>default gateway is one thing, and my router status page says it's
>something else.
On each of your computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of your router.
On the router, the default gateway IP belongs to your ISP and is your
gateway (pun intended) into their network and from there to the Internet.
wrote:
>I've got 3 or 4 computers on a LAN. From all computers and either
>browser (FF or IE), I get the same result: DNS can't find google.com.
>If I type in an IP address for google, I can get right to it. If I
>bypass the router and go directly to the cable modem, I can type in
>google.com and get right to it.
DHCP to acquire its IP address and Netmask, DNS server IP, and Gateway IP.
While each computer will have a different IP address, (naturally), all of
them will share the same values for Netmask, DNS server, and Gateway IP.
Further, the DNS server IP and the Gateway IP (and the DHCP server IP) will
all be the same, and will all be the LAN IP of your router. So far, so good.
>Sounds like a router problem. The strange thing is this problem only
>exists for google.com. As far as I know, all other URLs are recognized
>by the DNS.
IP? Can you change it? If the router allows that value to be changed, try an
open DNS server such as the ones from OpenDNS, Google, etc. For testing,
since they are easy to remember, I use Google (8.8.8.8) and Level 3 (4.2.2.1
thru 4.2.2.6). In your case, I would try Google's DNS because it would be
ironic indeed if their own DNS couldn't find the Google domain.
If your router doesn't allow you to change the DNS IP's, consider changing
them on your computers. Your computers don't have to use your router's IP as
their DNS server IP; you can enter actual DNS server IP's in those fields.
>So I'm trying to figure out what can go wrong with a router that it
>only malfunctions on one single URL, google.com. But my knowledge in
>these matters is limited.
>
>Trying to research it out, I come to this mystery: ipconfig says my
>default gateway is one thing, and my router status page says it's
>something else.
On the router, the default gateway IP belongs to your ISP and is your
gateway (pun intended) into their network and from there to the Internet.
twlllmxxx
Feb 14, 2013, 12:24:34 AM2/14/13
to
On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:09:05 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:
That's right. They're configured to use DHCP. I'm not able to change
the DNS server IP on the router, but if I change it on the computer
(to 8.8.8.8) I am indeed able to get google.com.
On 2 of 3 computers I checked, DNS never works on google.com unless I
change the DNS IP on the computer. On the third computer the default
DNS works sometimes and sometimes not. That's the kind of behavior I
expect in dying hardware. I don't understand why the problem only
shows on google.com.
I'm sure it's a router hardware problem. I've bought a new router but
haven't installed it yet because I want to understand what the old
router is doing. It's just so bizarre that only google.com is
affected.
I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
into an IP address that is the correct destination.
So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
wrote:
the DNS server IP on the router, but if I change it on the computer
(to 8.8.8.8) I am indeed able to get google.com.
On 2 of 3 computers I checked, DNS never works on google.com unless I
change the DNS IP on the computer. On the third computer the default
DNS works sometimes and sometimes not. That's the kind of behavior I
expect in dying hardware. I don't understand why the problem only
shows on google.com.
I'm sure it's a router hardware problem. I've bought a new router but
haven't installed it yet because I want to understand what the old
router is doing. It's just so bizarre that only google.com is
affected.
I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
into an IP address that is the correct destination.
So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
one thing, and my router status page says it's something else.
Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
Chester A. Arthur
Feb 14, 2013, 2:00:51 AM2/14/13
to
On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>>>I've got 3 or 4 computers on a LAN. From all computers and either
>>>browser (FF or IE), I get the same result: DNS can't find google.com.
>>>If I type in an IP address for google, I can get right to it. If I
>>>bypass the router and go directly to the cable modem, I can type in
>>>google.com and get right to it.
(snip)
>>>I've got 3 or 4 computers on a LAN. From all computers and either
>>>browser (FF or IE), I get the same result: DNS can't find google.com.
>>>If I type in an IP address for google, I can get right to it. If I
>>>bypass the router and go directly to the cable modem, I can type in
>>>google.com and get right to it.
> That's right. They're configured to use DHCP. I'm not able to change
> the DNS server IP on the router, but if I change it on the computer
> (to 8.8.8.8) I am indeed able to get google.com.
>
> On 2 of 3 computers I checked, DNS never works on google.com unless I
> change the DNS IP on the computer. On the third computer the default
> DNS works sometimes and sometimes not. That's the kind of behavior I
> expect in dying hardware. I don't understand why the problem only
> shows on google.com.
Why don't you give us the exact details of what you see? Give us the IP
> the DNS server IP on the router, but if I change it on the computer
> (to 8.8.8.8) I am indeed able to get google.com.
>
> On 2 of 3 computers I checked, DNS never works on google.com unless I
> change the DNS IP on the computer. On the third computer the default
> DNS works sometimes and sometimes not. That's the kind of behavior I
> expect in dying hardware. I don't understand why the problem only
> shows on google.com.
addresses used for DNS in the 2 cases. Don't expect specific answers
unless you provide very specific information. Provide the IP addresses
for the various cases. Don't make people guess about this stuff.
> I'm sure it's a router hardware problem. I've bought a new router but
> haven't installed it yet because I want to understand what the old
> router is doing. It's just so bizarre that only google.com is
> affected.
could that involve a hardware failure.
Char Jackson
Feb 14, 2013, 2:17:11 AM2/14/13
to
On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx <dogb...@twilliam.org>
Google is a very common destination, so it sort of makes sense that an issue
would rear its head there first. There might be many other sites similarly
affected, but if you don't visit them, you'd never know.
>I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
>computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
>my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
>sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
>into an IP address that is the correct destination.
>
>So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
>is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
>gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
>one thing, and my router status page says it's something else.
>
>Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
I would say yes, you're on the right track, but be careful not to mix DNS
server IPs with Gateway IP's when you're thinking about this stuff. Within
your LAN, both of those will typically be the same IP because those
functions are handled in the same piece of hardware, your router, but beyond
your LAN they will almost certainly not be the same hardware or the same IP
address. You can probably see that by looking at the router's admin pages.
Likewise for DHCP. Within your LAN, it's likely that same router that's
handling DNS and Gateway duties, but beyond your LAN it will be different.
would rear its head there first. There might be many other sites similarly
affected, but if you don't visit them, you'd never know.
>I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
>computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
>my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
>sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
>into an IP address that is the correct destination.
>
>So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
>is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
>gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
>one thing, and my router status page says it's something else.
>
>Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
server IPs with Gateway IP's when you're thinking about this stuff. Within
your LAN, both of those will typically be the same IP because those
functions are handled in the same piece of hardware, your router, but beyond
your LAN they will almost certainly not be the same hardware or the same IP
address. You can probably see that by looking at the router's admin pages.
Likewise for DHCP. Within your LAN, it's likely that same router that's
handling DNS and Gateway duties, but beyond your LAN it will be different.
John F. Morse
Feb 14, 2013, 8:21:20 AM2/14/13
to
On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
in error or on purpose.
Or more likely their lease time is too long and they cannot keep up with
a "moving target." (They cache a resolved IP too long.)
You can bypass their DNS server by using another DNS server IP, such as
Google's 8.8.8.8 in all of your computers, instead of pointing them to
your router.
--
John
When a person has -- whether they knew it or not -- already
rejected the Truth, by what means do they discern a lie?
twlllmxxx
Feb 14, 2013, 9:22:34 AM2/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:00:51 -0600, "Chester A. Arthur"
<dead...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>(snip)
<dead...@whitehouse.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>
>Why don't you give us the exact details of what you see? Give us the IP
>addresses used for DNS in the 2 cases. Don't expect specific answers
>unless you provide very specific information. Provide the IP addresses
>for the various cases. Don't make people guess about this stuff.
>
>> I'm sure it's a router hardware problem. I've bought a new router but
>> haven't installed it yet because I want to understand what the old
>> router is doing. It's just so bizarre that only google.com is
>> affected.
>
>I don't understand how you reached that conclusion. DNS is software. How
>could that involve a hardware failure.
>
>> I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
>> computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
>> my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
>> sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
>> into an IP address that is the correct destination.
>>
>> So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
>> is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
>> gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
>> one thing, and my router status page says it's something else.
>>
>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
ipconfig says
>Why don't you give us the exact details of what you see? Give us the IP
>addresses used for DNS in the 2 cases. Don't expect specific answers
>unless you provide very specific information. Provide the IP addresses
>for the various cases. Don't make people guess about this stuff.
>
>> I'm sure it's a router hardware problem. I've bought a new router but
>> haven't installed it yet because I want to understand what the old
>> router is doing. It's just so bizarre that only google.com is
>> affected.
>
>I don't understand how you reached that conclusion. DNS is software. How
>could that involve a hardware failure.
>
>> I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
>> computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
>> my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
>> sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
>> into an IP address that is the correct destination.
>>
>> So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
>> is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
>> gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
>> one thing, and my router status page says it's something else.
>>
>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
IP Address = 192.168.123.101
Subnet Mask = 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway = 192.168.123.254
DHCP Server = 192.168.123.254
DNS Servers = originally 192.168.123.254, but using that when I ask FF
for google.com, FF tells me "Firefox can't find the server at
www.google.com." So I manually change the DNS Server IP on the
computer to 8.8.8.8, and then FF can find google.com.
The router is a rather old U.S.Robotics (Model # 8004, 1.1101). Its
Status page says
IP Address = 68.98.59.228
Subnet Mask = 255.255.248.0
Gateway = 68.98.56.1
Domain Name Server = 68.105.28.12, 68.105.29.12
The ISP is Cox.
I guess I'm looking for evidence of a hardware failure (stuck bit or
something) that is misdirecting my request for google.com. (But why
only for google.com?)
twlllmxxx
Feb 14, 2013, 9:55:39 AM2/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:17:11 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:
> (snip)
>
>Google is a very common destination, so it sort of makes sense that an issue
>would rear its head there first. There might be many other sites similarly
>affected, but if you don't visit them, you'd never know.
>
>>I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
>>computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
>>my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
>>sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
>>into an IP address that is the correct destination.
>>
>>So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
>>is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
>>gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
>>one thing, and my router status page says it's something else.
>>
>>Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>
>I would say yes, you're on the right track, but be careful not to mix DNS
>server IPs with Gateway IP's when you're thinking about this stuff. Within
>your LAN, both of those will typically be the same IP because those
>functions are handled in the same piece of hardware, your router, but beyond
>your LAN they will almost certainly not be the same hardware or the same IP
>address. You can probably see that by looking at the router's admin pages.
>Likewise for DHCP. Within your LAN, it's likely that same router that's
>handling DNS and Gateway duties, but beyond your LAN it will be different.
>
Indeed other sites may be affected, but I haven't run across any. Only
google.
I assume the data packet that the computer sends to the router
contains other information that tells the router whether this should
go to the gateway or to a DNS server. I don't know what the format of
these data packets is.
I'm pretty good at digging information out of books, but I can't find
anything useful on routers. Everything is either too basic, directed
at people who have to have it explained what a binary number is, or
too advanced, directed at a system administrator for a large
corporation. Nothing for somebody with a modest home system who just
wants to know what's going on.
wrote:
> (snip)
>
>Google is a very common destination, so it sort of makes sense that an issue
>would rear its head there first. There might be many other sites similarly
>affected, but if you don't visit them, you'd never know.
>
>>I'm trying to understand how this stuff works. For each of my
>>computers, the default gateway is the LAN IP of my router. So one of
>>my browsers sends a URL to the LAN IP of my router, and the router
>>sends it on to the DNS IP given it by my ISP. And there it is resolved
>>into an IP address that is the correct destination.
>>
>>So the DNS address listed in ipconfig is what the computer thinks it
>>is, and the DNS listed on the status page of my router is what the ISP
>>gave it. That would explain why ipconfig says my default gateway is
>>one thing, and my router status page says it's something else.
>>
>>Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>
>I would say yes, you're on the right track, but be careful not to mix DNS
>server IPs with Gateway IP's when you're thinking about this stuff. Within
>your LAN, both of those will typically be the same IP because those
>functions are handled in the same piece of hardware, your router, but beyond
>your LAN they will almost certainly not be the same hardware or the same IP
>address. You can probably see that by looking at the router's admin pages.
>Likewise for DHCP. Within your LAN, it's likely that same router that's
>handling DNS and Gateway duties, but beyond your LAN it will be different.
>
google.
I assume the data packet that the computer sends to the router
contains other information that tells the router whether this should
go to the gateway or to a DNS server. I don't know what the format of
these data packets is.
I'm pretty good at digging information out of books, but I can't find
anything useful on routers. Everything is either too basic, directed
at people who have to have it explained what a binary number is, or
too advanced, directed at a system administrator for a large
corporation. Nothing for somebody with a modest home system who just
wants to know what's going on.
twlllmxxx
Feb 14, 2013, 10:11:36 AM2/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
<jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>
>
>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>
>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>
>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>in error or on purpose.
>
That's an interesting suggestion. I assume if the ISP's DNS server
<jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>
>
>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>
>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>
>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>in error or on purpose.
>
were misconfigured it would have been called to their attention and
fixed by now. In fact I initially suspected that somebody hacked into
my router and replaced some addresses. Like maybe somebody wanting to
sabotage google's market.
>Or more likely their lease time is too long and they cannot keep up with
>a "moving target." (They cache a resolved IP too long.)
>
>You can bypass their DNS server by using another DNS server IP, such as
>Google's 8.8.8.8 in all of your computers, instead of pointing them to
>your router.
problem was.
Char Jackson
Feb 14, 2013, 11:41:34 PM2/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:22:34 -0700, twlllmxxx <dogb...@twilliam.org>
wrote:
Have you ever done a factory reset on that router? If not, it might be time
to do it so you can start from scratch.
wrote:
to do it so you can start from scratch.
Char Jackson
Feb 14, 2013, 11:48:01 PM2/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:11:36 -0700, twlllmxxx <dogb...@twilliam.org>
wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
><jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>>
>>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>>
>>
>>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>>
>>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>>
>>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>>in error or on purpose.
>>
>That's an interesting suggestion. I assume if the ISP's DNS server
>were misconfigured it would have been called to their attention and
>fixed by now. In fact I initially suspected that somebody hacked into
>my router and replaced some addresses. Like maybe somebody wanting to
>sabotage google's market.
I think you said earlier that bypassing your router results in success,
making me think that the ISP's DNS server is OK.
It still looks like a problem with your router. Don't just reboot it, do a
factory reset on it, however that's accomplished for that model. Then set it
up again, from scratch, and test it. Depending on the test results, go from
there.
wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
><jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>>
>>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>>
>>
>>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>>
>>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>>
>>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>>in error or on purpose.
>>
>That's an interesting suggestion. I assume if the ISP's DNS server
>were misconfigured it would have been called to their attention and
>fixed by now. In fact I initially suspected that somebody hacked into
>my router and replaced some addresses. Like maybe somebody wanting to
>sabotage google's market.
making me think that the ISP's DNS server is OK.
It still looks like a problem with your router. Don't just reboot it, do a
factory reset on it, however that's accomplished for that model. Then set it
up again, from scratch, and test it. Depending on the test results, go from
there.
John F. Morse
Feb 15, 2013, 5:28:57 PM2/15/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:11:36 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
> <jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>>
>>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>>
>>
>>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>>
>>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>>
>>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>>in error or on purpose.
>>
> That's an interesting suggestion. I assume if the ISP's DNS server were
> misconfigured it would have been called to their attention and fixed by
> now. In fact I initially suspected that somebody hacked into my router
> and replaced some addresses. Like maybe somebody wanting to sabotage
> google's market.
Do you have remote administration turned off? You certainly should.
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
> <jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>>
>>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>>
>>
>>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>>
>>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>>
>>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>>in error or on purpose.
>>
> That's an interesting suggestion. I assume if the ISP's DNS server were
> misconfigured it would have been called to their attention and fixed by
> now. In fact I initially suspected that somebody hacked into my router
> and replaced some addresses. Like maybe somebody wanting to sabotage
> google's market.
Also, never assume an ISP knows anything about what they are doing.
>>You can bypass their DNS server by using another DNS server IP, such as
>>Google's 8.8.8.8 in all of your computers, instead of pointing them to
>>your router.
>
> Yeah, that alleviates the symptom, but doesn't tell me what the actual
> problem was.
your control.
John F. Morse
Feb 15, 2013, 5:40:59 PM2/15/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:55:39 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
> I assume the data packet that the computer sends to the router contains
> other information that tells the router whether this should go to the
> gateway or to a DNS server. I don't know what the format of these data
> packets is.
>
> I'm pretty good at digging information out of books, but I can't find
> anything useful on routers. Everything is either too basic, directed at
> people who have to have it explained what a binary number is, or too
> advanced, directed at a system administrator for a large corporation.
> Nothing for somebody with a modest home system who just wants to know
> what's going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Protocol
> I assume the data packet that the computer sends to the router contains
> other information that tells the router whether this should go to the
> gateway or to a DNS server. I don't know what the format of these data
> packets is.
>
> I'm pretty good at digging information out of books, but I can't find
> anything useful on routers. Everything is either too basic, directed at
> people who have to have it explained what a binary number is, or too
> advanced, directed at a system administrator for a large corporation.
> Nothing for somebody with a modest home system who just wants to know
> what's going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_forwarding_algorithm
twlllmxxx
Feb 18, 2013, 3:46:22 PM2/18/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:41:34 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:
>
reset. Twice, just to be sure. No change. Same problem.
wrote:
>
>Have you ever done a factory reset on that router? If not, it might be time
>to do it so you can start from scratch.
Good suggestion. I should have thought of it. So I did a factory
>to do it so you can start from scratch.
reset. Twice, just to be sure. No change. Same problem.
twlllmxxx
Feb 18, 2013, 3:51:00 PM2/18/13
to
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 22:40:59 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
<jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:55:39 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>> I assume the data packet that the computer sends to the router contains
>> other information that tells the router whether this should go to the
>> gateway or to a DNS server. I don't know what the format of these data
>> packets is.
>>
>> I'm pretty good at digging information out of books, but I can't find
>> anything useful on routers. Everything is either too basic, directed at
>> people who have to have it explained what a binary number is, or too
>> advanced, directed at a system administrator for a large corporation.
>> Nothing for somebody with a modest home system who just wants to know
>> what's going on.
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Protocol
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_forwarding_algorithm
Thanks for the links. I'll go through them and see what I can learn.
<jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:55:39 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>> I assume the data packet that the computer sends to the router contains
>> other information that tells the router whether this should go to the
>> gateway or to a DNS server. I don't know what the format of these data
>> packets is.
>>
>> I'm pretty good at digging information out of books, but I can't find
>> anything useful on routers. Everything is either too basic, directed at
>> people who have to have it explained what a binary number is, or too
>> advanced, directed at a system administrator for a large corporation.
>> Nothing for somebody with a modest home system who just wants to know
>> what's going on.
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Protocol
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_forwarding_algorithm
I looked up router in wikipedia before. It was no help. There was a
picture of an early router the size of a refrigerator. Not what I was
looking for. Your links here look more interesting.
twlllmxxx
Feb 18, 2013, 4:35:02 PM2/18/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:48:01 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:
>
The button right next to it was to upgrade the firmware. I downloaded
the upgrade from usr.com/support and clicked the button for firmware
upgrade. It asked me where the new firmware was, and I told it and
clicked the upgrade button. The "Connecting.." wheel on Firefox
churned around for a few minutes. Then Firefox said, "The connection
to the server was reset while the page was loading."
I repeated the procedure several times, same result. Nothing.
Connecting one computer directly to the cable modem, thus bypassing
the router, does result in success. It can find google.com just fine.
I repeated that test again yesterday just to make sure I wasn't
blowing smoke the first time. Same result. Connected like that, it
finds google.com just fine. No problem.
I go back to the router ... same old, same old.
I think it's clear the problem is in the router, not in Cox's DNS
server. Now I will go ahead and install a new router, TP-Link R860.
Thank you for your suggestions and links. I've learned a lot about
routers. Eternally grateful for your help.
wrote:
>
>I think you said earlier that bypassing your router results in success,
>making me think that the ISP's DNS server is OK.
>
>It still looks like a problem with your router. Don't just reboot it, do a
>factory reset on it, however that's accomplished for that model. Then set it
>up again, from scratch, and test it. Depending on the test results, go from
>there.
Yes, I did the factory reset. No change.
>making me think that the ISP's DNS server is OK.
>
>It still looks like a problem with your router. Don't just reboot it, do a
>factory reset on it, however that's accomplished for that model. Then set it
>up again, from scratch, and test it. Depending on the test results, go from
>there.
The button right next to it was to upgrade the firmware. I downloaded
the upgrade from usr.com/support and clicked the button for firmware
upgrade. It asked me where the new firmware was, and I told it and
clicked the upgrade button. The "Connecting.." wheel on Firefox
churned around for a few minutes. Then Firefox said, "The connection
to the server was reset while the page was loading."
I repeated the procedure several times, same result. Nothing.
Connecting one computer directly to the cable modem, thus bypassing
the router, does result in success. It can find google.com just fine.
I repeated that test again yesterday just to make sure I wasn't
blowing smoke the first time. Same result. Connected like that, it
finds google.com just fine. No problem.
I go back to the router ... same old, same old.
I think it's clear the problem is in the router, not in Cox's DNS
server. Now I will go ahead and install a new router, TP-Link R860.
Thank you for your suggestions and links. I've learned a lot about
routers. Eternally grateful for your help.
twlllmxxx
Feb 18, 2013, 4:56:44 PM2/18/13
to
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 22:28:57 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
There's nobody around here to do it behind my back.
>Also, never assume an ISP knows anything about what they are doing.
>
Cox is all about marketing. Their technical work is done by
contractors. They are who first told me it must be a router problem.
router and using Cox's DNS server. NOT bypassing the router, but
typing Cox's DNS into the TCP/IP properties dialog results in not
being able to find google.com. That router can not find google using
Cox's DNS, but can using Google's DNS.
Indeed.
<jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:11:36 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
>> <jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>>>
>>>
>>>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>>>
>>>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>>>
>>>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>>>in error or on purpose.
>>>
>> That's an interesting suggestion. I assume if the ISP's DNS server were
>> misconfigured it would have been called to their attention and fixed by
>> now. In fact I initially suspected that somebody hacked into my router
>> and replaced some addresses. Like maybe somebody wanting to sabotage
>> google's market.
>
>
>Do you have remote administration turned off? You certainly should.
>
Remote administration is not enabled. As far as I know, it never was.
>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:11:36 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:20 +0000 (UTC), "John F. Morse"
>> <jo...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:24:34 -0700, twlllmxxx wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am I beginning to approach an understanding?
>>>
>>>
>>>You might be, but you seem to have stopped at your router.
>>>
>>>Routers know nothing about FQDNs; they use numerical IPs.
>>>
>>>Somewhere (likely your ISP) has their DNS server mis-configured, either
>>>in error or on purpose.
>>>
>> That's an interesting suggestion. I assume if the ISP's DNS server were
>> misconfigured it would have been called to their attention and fixed by
>> now. In fact I initially suspected that somebody hacked into my router
>> and replaced some addresses. Like maybe somebody wanting to sabotage
>> google's market.
>
>
>Do you have remote administration turned off? You certainly should.
>
There's nobody around here to do it behind my back.
>Also, never assume an ISP knows anything about what they are doing.
>
contractors. They are who first told me it must be a router problem.
>
>>>You can bypass their DNS server by using another DNS server IP, such as
>>>Google's 8.8.8.8 in all of your computers, instead of pointing them to
>>>your router.
>>
>> Yeah, that alleviates the symptom, but doesn't tell me what the actual
>> problem was.
>
>
>I does tell you where the problem is not. If it works, then it is out of
>your control.
Yeah, using 8.8.8.8 for the DNS server works. So does bypassing the
>>>You can bypass their DNS server by using another DNS server IP, such as
>>>Google's 8.8.8.8 in all of your computers, instead of pointing them to
>>>your router.
>>
>> Yeah, that alleviates the symptom, but doesn't tell me what the actual
>> problem was.
>
>
>I does tell you where the problem is not. If it works, then it is out of
>your control.
router and using Cox's DNS server. NOT bypassing the router, but
typing Cox's DNS into the TCP/IP properties dialog results in not
being able to find google.com. That router can not find google using
Cox's DNS, but can using Google's DNS.
Indeed.
Char Jackson
Feb 18, 2013, 6:29:24 PM2/18/13
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:35:02 -0700, twlllmxxx <dogb...@twilliam.org>
wrote:
>Yes, I did the factory reset. No change.
It was worth a shot.
>Connecting one computer directly to the cable modem, thus bypassing
>the router, does result in success. It can find google.com just fine.
>I repeated that test again yesterday just to make sure I wasn't
>blowing smoke the first time. Same result. Connected like that, it
>finds google.com just fine. No problem.
>
>I go back to the router ... same old, same old.
Did you notice whether the same DNS server was being used in both cases? It
would be interesting to know if Cox is assigning one DNS server when you
connect directly and another (broken) server when you connect via the
router.
>I think it's clear the problem is in the router, not in Cox's DNS
>server. Now I will go ahead and install a new router, TP-Link R860.
I'm inclined to think it's a misconfigured DNS server, which is why I
wondered if they assign you the same one whether you connect directly or via
the router.
>Thank you for your suggestions and links. I've learned a lot about
>routers. Eternally grateful for your help.
Good luck with it.
wrote:
>Yes, I did the factory reset. No change.
>Connecting one computer directly to the cable modem, thus bypassing
>the router, does result in success. It can find google.com just fine.
>I repeated that test again yesterday just to make sure I wasn't
>blowing smoke the first time. Same result. Connected like that, it
>finds google.com just fine. No problem.
>
>I go back to the router ... same old, same old.
would be interesting to know if Cox is assigning one DNS server when you
connect directly and another (broken) server when you connect via the
router.
>I think it's clear the problem is in the router, not in Cox's DNS
>server. Now I will go ahead and install a new router, TP-Link R860.
wondered if they assign you the same one whether you connect directly or via
the router.
>Thank you for your suggestions and links. I've learned a lot about
>routers. Eternally grateful for your help.
twlllmxxx
Feb 18, 2013, 8:42:17 PM2/18/13
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:29:24 -0600, Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:
When I connect through the router, ipconfig lists two DNS servers:
68.105.28.12 and 68.105.29.12. When I connect directly to the cable
modem, ipconfig lists three: the two already listed plus one at
68.105.28.11.
To see if that last one is the only one that actually works, I typed
that one into the TCP/IP properties dialog as preferred DNS server.
Then, connected through the router, in response to a request for
google.com, I again get "Server not found".
wrote:
68.105.28.12 and 68.105.29.12. When I connect directly to the cable
modem, ipconfig lists three: the two already listed plus one at
68.105.28.11.
To see if that last one is the only one that actually works, I typed
that one into the TCP/IP properties dialog as preferred DNS server.
Then, connected through the router, in response to a request for
google.com, I again get "Server not found".
twlllmxxx
Feb 19, 2013, 12:39:10 AM2/19/13
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:42:17 -0700, twlllmxxx <dogb...@twilliam.org>
wrote:
>
>When I connect through the router, ipconfig lists two DNS servers:
>68.105.28.12 and 68.105.29.12. When I connect directly to the cable
>modem, ipconfig lists three: the two already listed plus one at
>68.105.28.11.
>
>To see if that last one is the only one that actually works, I typed
>that one into the TCP/IP properties dialog as preferred DNS server.
>Then, connected through the router, in response to a request for
>google.com, I again get "Server not found".
Sorry, I misspoke. When I connect throuth the router, the router lists
two DNS servers...
When I connect directly to the cable modem, ipconfig lists three...
I try to word things right, but I often screw up. Sorry.
wrote:
>
>When I connect through the router, ipconfig lists two DNS servers:
>68.105.28.12 and 68.105.29.12. When I connect directly to the cable
>modem, ipconfig lists three: the two already listed plus one at
>68.105.28.11.
>
>To see if that last one is the only one that actually works, I typed
>that one into the TCP/IP properties dialog as preferred DNS server.
>Then, connected through the router, in response to a request for
>google.com, I again get "Server not found".
two DNS servers...
When I connect directly to the cable modem, ipconfig lists three...
I try to word things right, but I often screw up. Sorry.
0 new messages