Setting up Windows cloud storage (Nextbox or Owncloud) at home

[Wolf Greenblatt]

I was looking for a free cloud server and found a few, the best perhaps
being the suggestion of Mega's free 20GB from Andy Burns on the Android ng.
https://mega.io/

There were also suggestions of the hard to believe 1TB of free storage.
https://www.terabox.com/

But they require accounts and some even require a credit card first.

Luckily, Arno Welzel suggested using Nextcloud (or Owncloud) servers,
where when I looked them both up, they seem to require a linux base.
https://www.how2shout.com/how-to/how-to-install-nextcloud-server-on-windows-10.html

From that article I can see both the NextCloud server seems to install on
Windows if we set up something called WSL or if we turn on other things
called "XAMMP, WAMP & IIS server" or if we use "VirtualBox/Vmware player".

But I've never done any of that which is why I'm asking for advice here.

That article also mentions Owncloud which seems to be similar to Nextcloud
but which seems to be open source (so maybe that's the better way to go?).

This article for installing OwnCloud says we need to use "XAMMP, WAMP &
Internet Information Services (IIS)" to make Windows an Owncloud server.
https://www.maketecheasier.com/install-owncloud-in-windows/

There seems to be Windows binaries but I couldn't open them on Windows.
https://download.owncloud.com/ocis/ocis/stable/4.0.2/ocis-4.0.2-darwin-amd64

So I might need to follow an installation manual rather than just guess.

But before I do that, if you've already made all these decisions as to
which cloud server to set up (Owncloud or Nextcloud) which you like best?

And then, which is the better way for you to set it up given it's linux
based? Did you use "WSL" or "XAMP/WAMP/IIS" or "VBox/VMWARE" methods?

What's the difference?

[Theo]

Wolf Greenblatt <wo...@greenblatt.net> wrote:
> So I might need to follow an installation manual rather than just guess.
>
> But before I do that, if you've already made all these decisions as to
> which cloud server to set up (Owncloud or Nextcloud) which you like best?

Owncloud decided to turn commercial and Nextcloud was forked and saw a lot
more development, so I'd recommend Nextcloud.

> And then, which is the better way for you to set it up given it's linux
> based? Did you use "WSL" or "XAMP/WAMP/IIS" or "VBox/VMWARE" methods?
> What's the difference?

WSL = a Linux virtual machine managed by Windows
XAMP/WAMP/IIS = a webserver stack run natively on Windows. Often not very
well tested (most servers run Linux)
VBox = Virtualbox, a hypervisor. You would install a Linux virtual machine
like a regular PC (install DVD etc) and then follow one of the Linux guides
VMWare = another brand of hypervisor, roughly the same as VBox

You can also use Docker, it's basically one command:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0G8PNOV1Vg

Note that this puts all the files you upload inside the Docker world. If
you want to export existing file trees on the Windows system you'd need to
look at how you configure 'volumes' in Docker. The DockerHub page for
Nextcloud has the details:
https://hub.docker.com/_/nextcloud

(effectively everything then becomes a configuration option as to how Docker runs
the Docker image)

Theo

[Paul]

There is no Windows executable in this directory. Darwin is obviously
for the Apple platform, of some sort.

https://download.owncloud.com/ocis/ocis/stable/4.0.2/ocis-4.0.2-darwin-amd64

If I use the last directory that had a Windows executable in it, it looks like this.

ocis-1.9.0-darwin-amd64: Mach-O 64-bit x86_64 executable
ocis-1.9.0-linux-amd64: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked,
Go BuildID=ol4sHR3cxy5uXMJka_yl/rXhlGlOlQkLaOlckLnVE/LaaDHWIed3jStWWte7gB/mw0w8hBJOeU5ndDHWCbY, stripped
ocis-1.9.0-windows-amd64.exe: PE32+ executable (console) x86-64 (stripped to external PDB), for MS Windows

Do you see how clever this is ???

At the bomb squad office, we tip-toe backwards when we see this :-)
Three platforms. Three monolithic executables. If they
ask for sudo or UAC, what will you do ? Click Yes ???

None of the packages resemble "installers" for their respective platforms.

The Virustotal scan of the EXE is clean, but the "smell section"
seems to indicate it has an interest in the kernel. Imports: Kernel32.dll: <list of stuff>

I presume with your Acme bomb kit, there is a single page instruction sheet ?
There has to be some assembly required with these "items".

On Linux, you might use a .run or a .sh if you were cheeky.
On Apple, you'd use a .dmg wrapper, as a "hint of politeness".
Yes, the Windows one is an executable. Great. Does it need Administrator ?

So anyway, the good news is they stopped making a Windows version,
and the most recent releases are for Apple and Linux.

Paul

[Andy Burns]

Paul wrote:

> The Virustotal scan of the EXE is clean, but the "smell section"
> seems to indicate it has an interest in the kernel. Imports: Kernel32.dll: <list of stuff>

Doesn't just about every .exe import stuff from kernel32.dll ?

[Wolf Greenblatt]

If I follow the Windows installation instructions for OwnCloud over here.
https://www.maketecheasier.com/install-owncloud-in-windows/

It says to get the OwnCloud 10.13.4 latest version 100MB zip file here.
https://owncloud.com/download-server/
https://download.owncloud.com/server/stable/owncloud-complete-20231213.zip

If I follow the Windows installation instructions for NextCloud over here.
https://www.how2shout.com/how-to/how-to-install-nextcloud-server-on-windows-10.html

It says to get the 200MB NextCloud 28.0.2 latest version zip file here.
https://nextcloud.com/install/#instructions-server
https://download.nextcloud.com/server/releases/latest.zip

They're both pretty complicated it seems to me so it's best to
start with the one with the most chance of success on a PC.

Someone else suggested NextCloud over OneCloud.
Do others concur?

[Wolf Greenblatt]

In article <news:-Nn*5k...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo

<theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Owncloud decided to turn commercial and Nextcloud was forked and saw a lot
> more development, so I'd recommend Nextcloud.

Thanks for that helpful answer, which is that OwnCloud and NextCloud are
written by essentially the same people - where NextCloud is a later fork.

After more careful consideration, I realized this is the "Great Cloud
Debate", which has many answers, which means that there is no answer.

These are perhaps the best answers to that great cloud debate.
https://blog.containerize.com/nextcloud-vs-owncloud-what-are-the-differences/
https://forum.level1techs.com/t/one-area-where-owncloud-is-better-than-nextcloud/161562
https://medium.com/@IntelliSoft/the-great-cloud-storage-debate-owncloud-vs-nextcloud-which-one-is-right-for-you-fb901d79def3

And these are ok answers to the great cloud debate.
https://itsfoss.com/nextcloud-vs-owncloud/
https://monovm.com/blog/owncloud-vs-nextcloud/
https://www.getapp.com/collaboration-software/a/owncloud/compare/nextcloud/
https://www.ionos.com/digitalguide/server/tools/owncloud-vs-nextcloud-a-comparison/
https://news.gandi.net/en/2021/05/nextcloud-vs-owncloud-which-cloud-solution-should-you-choose/
https://www.virtualizationhowto.com/2023/04/nextcloud-vs-owncloud-which-self-hosted-cloud-solution/

Where these are self-centered answers to the great cloud debate.
https://hostman.com/blog/nextcloud-vs-owncloud/
https://cloudzy.com/blog/nextcloud-vs-owncloud/
https://owncloud.com/compare-filesharing/owncloud-vs-nextcloud/

They're extremely similar. So the answer might not matter all that much.
Most likely the only one who can answer it is someone who has used both.

The next question, before I start, that I need to answer for myself is
which is the easiest to install and maintain on an old Windows desktop.

[Paul]

owncloud-complete-20231213.zip <=== html/js/php , components for a web server? 26,851 files

They're so wrapped up in what they're doing, they don't even point out the obvious.
They're not bringing this thing up from "nothing". An install procedure should
go into some amount of detail.

https://doc.owncloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/installation/

phpenmod smbclient
systemctl restart apache2 <=== they're "restarting" software they didn't even install.
The keyword "apache" means "a web server" is present
on the machine.

*******

latest--nextcloud.zip 22,897 Files <=== php files mostly

Name: Nextcloud Manual.pdf 189 pages (This seems to be a client manual for using the web interface as a user)
Size: 16,051,189 bytes (15 MiB)

Name: Reasons to use Nextcloud.pdf "Groupware"
Size: 976,625 bytes (953 KiB)

The two seem to have a slightly different focus.
I haven't seen the word "Apache" quite yet.

OK, now I see the Apache keyword. There is mention of packages
for servers here, things you would load into Linux in one step perhaps.

https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/installation/source_installation.html

This means you will be responsible for web server security (CVE related to Apache),
plus all the packages that install as helpers (presumably some version of PHP).
And so on. That's why using a Ubuntu VM and their Snap package, might
be a "one and done" from a "what software do I need" perspective.
However, there will be a firstrun behavior, configuration questions,
and you'll need to define a "server.local" at 192.168.1.2 , and of course
if there's a reverse DNS lookup, combined with your certificate, some
authentication processes aren't going to be happy. You know the drill.
That's why my hmailserver today, is broken, and it won't even work
on vanilla ports either.

With a Snap, there will be Snap Updates. If there is an Apache server
in there, it will be kept up to date. One of the disadvantages of
Snap, is access to files outside the snap environment (which is where
your NextCloud will keep the user files). There might be limits on where
the server can "point". It won't be allowed to write just anywhere.

The first time I ran into a Snap, it seemed... un-debuggable. I hope
that has changed since early times. For example, Firefox Browser on
Ubuntu desktop, is a Snap, but that usually isn't broken. I haven't
tested that extensively for "reach". Like, whether it can download
a file into other than ~/Downloads.

Paul