Lenovo T500 ram

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

Hi all ;
I'm not a techie - be gentle .. :-)

I'm considering a ram upgrade for my trusty old T500.
core 2 duo P8400 @ 2.26 ghz
Presently Win 8.1 Pro < originally Vista > with 2 + 1 ram.
I recently installed a SSD which worked great for improving
start-up and shut-down - but I'm wondering if I can expect
any more performance improvement with 4 + 2 ram ?
or 4 + 4 ? < maximum >
I've read that it should be 2Rx8 not 1Rx8 < ? >
Not wanting to spend a lot of money - but I really like this
computer - it's perfect for my needs.

Any suggestions ?

The new ram that I see does not mention 2Rx8 or 1Rx8
- the used ram has it shown on the sticker photos ..

Here's what I'm thinking of trying :

https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_326_1903&item_id=039721

Used 4 gig PC3 laptop sticks seem a bit rare in my area
and run ~ $ 30.

John T.

[Paul]

There are two pictures for this product. One with 16 chips
per module (old picture). One with 8 chips per module.

F3-12800CL9S-4GBSQ

Buy it from some place that allows "returns on error".

The Crucial also looks like a high density config. They
swear on their mothers grave it's compatible and everything.

https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/lenovo/thinkpad-t500-series

We'd need the datasheet for the GM45, and the text in the memory
section, to dispel uncertainty. The datasheet 320112 is *not available*.
This puts me in a bit of a spot, playing density roulette
for you and so on.

As long as your vendor is an "allows returns" company, you're
in good shape. Note that CanadaComputer made some change recently
to their policy, and you might want to hunt down the details of that.

So far, by appearance, both the Crucial and Gskill look dodgy.

*******

Consider this thread for a moment. OP gets in trouble using a
particular Gskill product.

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and-newer-T-series-Laptops/T500-memory-upgrade-riddle/m-p/3784569?page=2

In the very last posting in that thread, the OP in the thread
tries some "Macintosh" memory. And the picture here shows it
is low density stuff. Things that make you say Hmmm. I love bargains.
I hate surprises, especially getting boned on density errors
caused by greedy manufacturers (as soon as the high density
chips are a dollar cheaper, they change manufacturing
format on you).

(Unavailable, well who is really surprised at this...)

https://www.amazon.ca/G-Skill-1066MHz-SO-DIMM-Laptop-PC3-8500/dp/B003QLHJFE

I would probably phone Crucial, if going with their matched pair product,
and see if they agree the machine should be getting low density. And
double check that unlike the Crucial product picture, the stuff
really is low density 16 chip.

Since the CanadaComputer, you can phone them and ask them to look
at the product, they should be able to quickly confirm they carry
the newer 8 chip SODIMM and not the older 16 chip SODIMM you wanted.

Sometimes chipsets do work with high density RAM, and there is
always the possibility the datasheet never truly represents
how the hardware works. (That happened on my VIA chipset
motherboard with DDR2 memory. It worked with 2GB sticks,
but the VIA webpage said "No".)

It's that forums.lenovo.com thread that's bothering me.
Now I need an antacid :-)

Paul

[VanguardLH]

https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/43y6630_03.pdf

Page 48 gives the memory configuration. Looks like 4 GB is as much as
you can install whether it be one 4GB module or two 2GB modules. That's
for "standard memory", whatever that means. There is a row in that
table for "optional memory" that shows another 4GB module can be
installed, so you could have 8GB in that laptop. Are there really 3
slots for memory, or just 2? If just 2, looks like you can put in two
4GB modules: one in the "standard" memory slot, and another in the
"optional memory" slot (I'm assuming the 1st slot is "standard" and 2nd
slot is "optional").

Page 70 shows where to install/change memory modules. If you use only
one 4GB module, it goes in Slot-0 (lower connector). If you use two 2GB
modules, one goes in slot-0 and the other in slot-1.

There is no mention of where to find the "optional" memory slot.
Probably have to remove an access panel on the bottom. However, you may
not have that feature.

An online copy of the manual is found at:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/783635/Lenovo-Thinkpad-T500.html?page=58#manual

Page 58 is where memory change is described. "Optional memory" just
seems to refer to the standard memory module compartment where there at
2 slots where you can use 1 module (lower slot-0) or 2 modules. That
laptop apparently has a limit of 4GB addressing, so you can put one 4GB
module in slot-0, or two 2GB modules in both slots. Specifications in
that manual do not state the maximum memory capacity. That's why I
found the hardware servicing manual which indicates 4GB total.

http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/lenovo-t500-thinkpad-review/

That mentions "... gain access to an open WWAN slot, another for Turbo
Memory or UWB, two DDR3 memory slots, ...". So, there are the two
SODIMM slots, but maybe there is a smaller card slot to add something
like an SD card. "Turbo Memory" is mentioned at:

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/migr-71355

On that page, it mentions "Intel Turbo Memory Minicard". Found it
described at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Turbo_Memory

Sure sounds like an SD flash memory card. Those will be a *lot* slower
than your main or system memory on the SODIMM modules. Found some pics
in an image search:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=intel%20turbo%20memory%20minicard

Nope, that isn't an SD card (other format flash memory card). That's a
special card you have to buy (but your description indicates you already
have one that adds 1GB).

https://www.newegg.com/p/0RN-0013-000F2?item=9SIAJCJ8HJ4470&nm_mc=knc-googleadwords&cm_mmc=knc-googleadwords-_-memory%20(desktop%20memory)-_-ibm-_-9SIAJCJ8HJ4470&source=region

$70 for a 4GB minicard. Sorry, I couldn't find specs from Lenovo saying
what is the maximum size that laptop will support.

You sure the minicard slot isn't already populated with a wifi card?
Seems to be the majority use for that slot.

https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/lenovo/thinkpad-t500-series

That indicates you could have 8GB in the laptop, but Lenovo's servicing
manual indicates 4GB is the max. You could buy their 8GB 2-module kit
to see if those work. Check Crucial's return policy before buying.
Since you hint you already have 4GB in the laptop, and assuming that is
with one SODIMM and not with two 2GB SODIMMS, you could buy just one 4GB
SODIMM. Because architecture can differ, I usually buy the memory
modules in sets where all are the same type from the same source.

I've found other memory vendors claiming the T500 can take 8GB (two 4GB
modules). If it takes 8GB, don't bother changing out the 1GB memory
minicard.

While you can add more system memory to reduce the chance of using the
pagefile which is on the slower drive (although you said you replaced
that with an SSD), you could also review what processes are running
memory, get rid of some, and free up some RAM. You may not really need
all those startup programs eating up memory.

The SSD will give you the most noticable speed boost for boot and
loading programs. You may not notice any boost going with more memory.

[Paul]

I found the datasheet, finally. It just never occurred to me when
ark.intel.com threw me under the bus, that the link on the ark.intel.com
page could be thrown into archive.org to get it. You've got to be
really awake while shoveling this excrement :-)

https://web.archive.org/web/20160412090401if_/http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/mobile-4-chipset-datasheet.pdf

"Each channel has a 64-bit data interface and the frequencies supported are:

- 667 MHz and 800 MHz for DDR2 [designer chooses one memory type per design...]
- 800 MHz and 1066 MHz for DDR3 [could use 1600 memory downclocked to 1066,
it could even downclock to 800 if needed]

Each channel can have one or two ranks populated. [ == 2Rx8 ]

There can be a maximum of four ranks (two, double-sided SO-DIMMs) populated.

Note: The Mobile Intel GS45 and GS40 Express Chipsets can support memory-down
on one channel and SO-DIMM on the other channel. The Mobile Intel GS45
and GS40 Express Chipsets can support memory-down on two channels,
but not validated.

Note: The Mobile Intel 4 Series Express Chipset Family supports only one
SO-DIMM connector per channel.
"

The OPs chipset is GM45, which is a mobile mainstream northbridge
with built-in graphics for a laptop. The GS45 is likely to be
a tablet config (where memory-down, soldered to motherboard is
the thinnest option).

The GM45 should be one double-sided SODIMM per channel. 4GB each.
8GB max. There should be two SODIMM slots and zero memory-down.

The memory map for the chipset extends to 64GB, so there isn't
a "clipping problem". The lenovo forum thread I was reading, I
was worried that perhaps clipping was the problem. To allay that
fear, I looked at a P45 datasheet and could see the memory map
extends to 64GB decoding. The above GM45 datasheet shows the same
sort of diagram on PDF page 43 (rotate page 90 degrees to read it).

It still looks like those nice-looking "Mac modules" mentioned,
the ones with 16 chips would work.

The various descriptions of system memory, use 16 chips which
are x8 bits wide, and those are the two ranks of the 4GB module.
If you botch that part of the operation, you would likely get
half the memory capacity of the stick. When the density is
botched, I think the seoond half of the memory is inaccessible
(no pattern on the address bus, will get you there).

Paul

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

* * * top post * * *

Thanks guys - I'll see what the store return policy is.
John T.





On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:40:22 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
wrote:

[VanguardLH]

Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

I remember in old PC (desktop) builds where I ran across super-cheap
memory modules for sale, and then noticed they were advertized as high
density. I couldn't find mobos that specified the high-density modules.
Back then, all of mine, those I worked on at work (we had an $7M alpha
lab), on my friends PC, and just about everywhere my experience reached
used low-density modules. Maybe high-density modules have gotten more
adopted by newer laptops; however, I would think the manual or servicing
manual would indicate if high-density were required.

Back then, I had not ran across that term before, so I had to research.
Picking the wrong density meant your computer could only reach half of
the memory capacity or the computer wouldn't even boot.

https://panoramacircle.com/2018/08/07/high-density-vs-low-density-ram-why-it-crashes-some-computers/

There had to be a reason why high-density modules were much cheaper than
low-density modules. No one wanted the high-density modules. There was
a very limited market for them back then.

The Lenovo servicing manual that I found listed the memory modules
supported, so I'd look at those to see if they were high- or
low-density. Since the servicing manual doesn't say anything special
about the memory modules regarding density, and because the Thinkpad
T500 was introduced back in 2008, my bet is on low-density modules.

Because the key notch varies based on DDR spec, the pin count varies,
and to make sure I got one(s) that work with the computer, I'd just go
with Crucial's recommendations (even if you buy elsewhere). Newegg has
a memory finder tool, too (although "laptop" wasn't listed as a
category, so I had to use "notebook").

https://www.newegg.com/tools/memory-finder/#/result/10172022;flt_brandlabel=Corsair%7C%7C%7CCrucial;flt_storagecapacitytitle=4%2520GB

Prices are high, but some are low. I selected Corsair and Crucial for
vendors. Up to you if you want to pick some others. Peculiarly, Newegg
lists the same product (CT51264BC1339 from Crucial) from $189 down to
$21. Alas, their memory finder tool doesn't let you select the seller,
and I rarely buy from 3rd parties using Newegg as a frontend etail store
and instead much prefer to buy from Newegg (because you deal with them,
their return policy, and they often provide some support). None of the
search hits were sold by Newegg. All were Chinese sellers. Don't know
from they're shipped, but Crucial's own pricing was on the low end.

[Paul]

VanguardLH wrote:

> I would think the manual or servicing
> manual would indicate if high-density were required.

The high-density issue is a measure of Intels ability
to figure out in advance, the rate at which the memory
industry will advance.

There are at least three generations where they got
this wrong, and it's a safe bet they'll get it wrong
again.

The "user manual" is only as good as Intels advice to
designers. It would be cheeky for a user manual to
say "product uses X, but we think Intel will get it
wrong again, and you will need low-density RAM at
the 2X product level".

Another galling aspect, is when companies like
Kingston and Crucial get these things wrong, and
stock the wrong RAM on purpose. The "on my
mothers grave, this product is compatible with
your computer" deal. They erode my trust in them
enough, I'm prepared to send people to Ebay as
a more trustworthy source.

With Kingston, they were so certain of the details
of their business, they provided "datasheets" with
a drawing of both sides of the DIMM. This made it
easy to examine the data for a SKU, and tell people
"this one will work, I have the datasheet". And then
one day, Kingston started shipping 8-chip DIMMs
for a product with a 16-chip diagram, and now
all I can tell people is "I have datasheet, have
you been to casino lately?". By not sticking with
the datasheet-specified design, that completely
wrecks my trust in them. Potentially, a person
could go to the computer store, pick up two
single-DIMM packages... and end up taking home
an 8-chip and a 16-chip DIMM in the belief
they were a "matched" pair.

Paul

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

Thanks - I ordered the one from Canada Computers -
it matched one of the compatible units in the newegg finder.
They will take returns
< normally 15 days but extended for covid-19 >
John T.

[Philo565]

Unless you are using the 64 bit version of the OS (which I doubt)
only about 3.2 gigs can be utilized, so going over 4 gigs will be a waste of money.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

I can't find that info ... 64 bit ?

Win 8.1 Pro Version 6.3 Build 9600

John T.

[Philo565]

Windows 8, head to Control Panel > System. You can also hit Start and search for “system” to find the page quickly. Look for the “System type” entry to see whether your operating system and processor are 32-bit or 64-bit

If you have 32 bit but have already ordered RAM.

Consider a fresh install of Win10 64 bit.

No rush through.

Maybe on a new HD and dual boot.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT), Philo565
<phil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Windows 8, head to Control Panel > System.
>You can also hit Start and search for “system” to find the page quickly.

>System type - to see whether your operating system and processor are 32-bit or 64-bit

>If you have 32 bit but have already ordered RAM.
>Consider a fresh install of Win10 64 bit.
>No rush through.
>Maybe on a new HD and dual boot.

OK - sorry I thought that was just processor.
64 bit Operating Syatem , x-64 based processor.
Thanks ;
John T.

[Philo565]

Then all is good.

If you do someday go to Win10 ... at least 8 gigs of ram would be advised.

[Paul]

Here's a comparison (two snapshots).

https://i.postimg.cc/tTxtfjHL/which-bitness.gif

Amount RAM Amount usable
installed 32-bit OS 64-bit OS

3GB 3GB 3GB
4GB 3.5GB 4GB
5GB 3.5GB 5GB
6GB 3.5GB 6GB
7GB 3.5GB 7GB
8GB 3.5GB 8GB

The "exact amount", the 3.5GB number, is a function
of the onboard RAM of the video card. Two 1GB video
cards running in SLI mode could drop the usable
RAM shown in the System panel to only 2GB available.

On a laptop with integrated graphics, the number
could be anywhere from 3GB to 3.5GB or so.

Gamers got penalized the most, from the handling of
the address space. The address space staying below 4GB,
in the belief that PCI cards would not need "bounce
buffers" to run in PAE mode.

*******

This guy ran 8GB of RAM on a 32-bit OS, by hacking an
unsigned kernel. Proving that the concern about bounce
buffers and the like (as Russinovich said), is unnecessary,
and "wearing a pair of shoes that pinch your toes" is so so
unnecessary. Thanks, Microsoft.

http://www.geoffchappell.com/viewer.htm?doc=notes/windows/license/memory.htm

Paul

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

>>
>>> Unless you are using the 64 bit version of the OS (which I doubt)
>>> only about 3.2 gigs can be utilized, so going over 4 gigs will be a waste of money.
>>
>>
>> I can't find that info ... 64 bit ?
>> Win 8.1 Pro Version 6.3 Build 9600

>> * 64 bit Operating Syatem x-64 based processor *

Thanks everyone. Moot - for now anyway -
the ram stick is not compatible < or defective ? >
G.Skill F3-12800CL9S-4GB SQ series DDR3-1600
I tried it in every combination/position with the 2 old
DIMMs - 1-3-3-1 beeps every time.
Live & learn.
One of the Lenovo forums had someone post that
they always had troubles with the bargain ram with
these machines..
John T.

[Paul]

hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

> Thanks everyone. Moot - for now anyway -
> the ram stick is not compatible < or defective ? >
> G.Skill F3-12800CL9S-4GB SQ series DDR3-1600
> I tried it in every combination/position with the 2 old
> DIMMs - 1-3-3-1 beeps every time.
> Live & learn.
> One of the Lenovo forums had someone post that
> they always had troubles with the bargain ram with
> these machines..
> John T.

Every company (that does binning), tends to have
grades of memory. And in the past, you could
find "reputable" companies that would issue
some crap that could barely make the posted
speed (that's their "value" line, so-called).

I have ten sticks of G.Skill and zero failures.

Those sticks use Hynix RAM, and in terms of
bus performance, the memory chips work up
to 2400 without needing to be binned.
That means they can do stuck-at testing
and verify no bits are stuck, but they
don't need to do hours of testing to prove
the stick can drive the bus at 2400. A 15 minute
test with those is enough.

As a contrast, I bought eight sticks of a
no-name RAM and five of those have died.
The chip maker (the name printed on the chip)
is "Micro-Q", which I've never heard of. It
could be these were UTT chips and someone stamped
that name on them. But it's more likely it's a real
company of some sort. Those DIMMs are an older generation.

What I've been able to determine about those,
are the failures are related to a chemistry problem.
If you store the machine (without CMOS battery) in
the junk room for two years, all three DIMMs plugged
into the machine will fail. If I took the remaining
three DIMMs and left them in the machine, they'd
be dead by now. This is some kind of chemistry failure
abetted by the DIMMs being plugged into sockets. If I
leave the DIMMs in antistatic bags, and only plug
them in when using the machine, they're fine.

That's what buying no-name gets you.

Paul

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 15:06:00 -0400, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>
>>>
>>>> Unless you are using the 64 bit version of the OS

>>>> only about 3.2 gigs can be utilized, so going over 4 gigs
>>>> will be a waste of money.
>>>
>>>

Exchanged the above for
G.Skill F3-8500CL7S-4GB SQ DDR3-1066
and it worked.
" 6.00 GB installed 5.90 GB usable "
< re-used the old 2 GB >
Not sure if I'll see any performance improvement or not.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
John T.

[Paul]

Based on the reduction in speed from 12800 to 8500,
it's a different generation of chip, and it might
well be a 16-chip 4GB module.

In this case, it's not a "bargain RAM" problem, but
rather a density issue. And those are hard to detect
without some "evidence" from previous failures to
work. That gets your suspicions running, and provides
the impetus to hunt down the docs (whereever they're
hiding this week).

Paul

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

>>>>>
>>>>> Win 8.1 Pro Version 6.3 Build 9600
>>>>> * 64 bit Operating Syatem x-64 based processor *
>>>>>
>>>

I suspect you are right. This working DIMM has 8 chips;
the prior one that didn't work had 4 chips.
Although the 1 GB that was removed <working> had 4.
MT4JSF12864 Hz-1G4D1 PC3-10600S-9-10-C1 1Rx16
John T.

[ITEEGEEK]

See https://iteegeek.com/laptops/lenovo-s10-mini-laptop-review-spec-price/

[Obinna]

[Obinna]

> See https://craigslistsfinds.com/how-to-get-your-groove-pillow/

[Obinna]

On Thursday, August 31, 2023 at 7:57:16 PM UTC+9:30, Obinna wrote:
https://craigslistsfinds.com/how-to-get-your-groove-pillow/

[agewellnessguide]

On Thursday, August 31, 2023 at 8:00:04 PM UTC+9:30, Obinna wrote:
> On Thursday, August 31, 2023 at 7:57:16 PM UTC+9:30, Obinna wrote:
> https://craigslistsfinds.com/how-to-get-your-groove-pillow/

https://agewellnessguide.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-farmworks-weed-killer