Rip Off?
Larry Staples
I'm not disagreeing exactly. I just think I should point out that Apple
offers the same machines in Japan as they do in the US. I think Power
Computing does as well.
Larry
Thomas Kruemmer wrote:
>
> In USA, vie the Internet or in person, you can buy a top of the line
> desk-top computer 200MHz Pentium, 32 - 64 MB EDO RAM, 12X CD-ROM, plus all
> the gimmicks for about US$ 3000 - 3500.
>
> In Japan you will not find a desk-top computer with the a.m. specification.
>
> That is to say, NEITHER Japanese manufacturers NOR foreign manufacturers
> having their shops in Japan, can offer up-to-date desk-top computers.
>
> What is being sold in Japan are desk-top computers with the specifications
> of early last year, at prices which you can not achieve for these outdated
> models anywhere else on this planet.
>
> Two foreign manufacturers with their direct presence in Japan I contacted
> told me, that the new desk-top models from overseas will not be available
> in Japan, but they would be selling a similar lines with different names
> for the Japanese market. After looking at the pamphlets, guess what I
> found: low spec.
>
> What makes this unholy alliance of foreign and Japanese computer
> manufacturers think, that they can get away with that?
>
> Consumers may be stupid - but can be very unforgiving.
>
> Thomas Kruemmer
> tkru...@usa.net
> A disgrunteld desk-top customer.
--
Larry Staples <lsta...@gol.com>
http://www2.gol.com/users/lstaples/
Thomas Kruemmer
Earl H. Kinmonth <kuso...@shef.ac.uk> wrote in article
<55icf0$m...@bignews.shef.ac.uk>...
>
> What other countries have you surveyed?
Japan only, because I live here.
> The "latest and greatest" in both hardware and software seldom gives the
> best value for money.
May be you are right, but I am kind of "pro choice".
> Buying the latest of either gives you the
> privilege of paying a large premium to get either buggy software or
> hardware that will be superceded before the year is out....
>
Outside Japan you may be perfectly right, I would not know, but if you
wanna know what's buggy try out
Fujitsu PC with Japanese Windows 95 and their wonderful "FMV" softo....
> And, for the record, it is not that difficult to buy mail order from the
> US....
>
Earl, this is brillant, please share your wisdom with me and name me only
one mail order company who ships Dell Dimension, Gateway G-series or
similar top of the line product to Japan. I would be very grateful for good
advice.
Online or off-line, I could not find any, except Acer (old and expensive)
and Micron (I am still considering).....
Dell in Japan do not sell Dimenesion PC, and Gateway in Akihabara do not
sell the G-series.
So much for the record......
Best regards,
Thomas Kruemmer
tkru...@usa.net
Martin Tom Brown
In article <01bbc852$a3ee5680$8e8e...@tktokyo.iac.co.jp>
tkru...@usa.net "Thomas Kruemmer" writes:
> In USA, vie the Internet or in person, you can buy a top of the line
> desk-top computer 200MHz Pentium, 32 - 64 MB EDO RAM, 12X CD-ROM, plus all
> the gimmicks for about US$ 3000 - 3500.
> That is to say, NEITHER Japanese manufacturers NOR foreign manufacturers
> having their shops in Japan, can offer up-to-date desk-top computers.
Interesting really since Fujitsu offer an almost matching spec in
the UK for GBP 2100 (= US $3300) in all but the 12x CD ROM (uses 8x).
I'm not sure if Fujitsu offer these at all in Japan.
Most of the rest in the UK are GBP 2400-2600 ($4000)
> What is being sold in Japan are desk-top computers with the specifications
> of early last year, at prices which you can not achieve for these outdated
> models anywhere else on this planet.
Your planet only has USA and Japan on it! The USA is unusual in having
a large fast moving and very price competitive computer/hi-tech market.
Outside of the US prices are 40-60% higher if the goods are available.
It is a little surprising given the amazing sophistication of VCRs
and video cameras available in Japan that computers are so backwards.
However, things are improving. Prices in Japan for Western style PC's
have come down a long way - it wasn't so long ago they were very rare.
In '91 when my portable's HD failed it would have been cheaper to fly
club class to SF and have it repaired in the US than do it locally.
Unfortunately we found this out after getting the local repair bill :(
> What makes this unholy alliance of foreign and Japanese computer
> manufacturers think, that they can get away with that?
A captive market?
Regards,
--
Martin Brown <mar...@nezumi.demon.co.uk> __ CIS: 71651,470
Scientific Software Consultancy /^,,)__/
Earl H. Kinmonth
Thomas Kruemmer (tkru...@usa.net) wrote:
: Earl H. Kinmonth <kuso...@shef.ac.uk> wrote in article
: <55icf0$m...@bignews.shef.ac.uk>...
: > What other countries have you surveyed?
: Japan only, because I live here.
That is a rather thin basis for claiming that Japan has price levels
that would not be tolerated anywhere else in the world....
: > The "latest and greatest" in both hardware and software seldom gives the
: > best value for money.
: May be you are right, but I am kind of "pro choice".
: > Buying the latest of either gives you the
: > privilege of paying a large premium to get either buggy software or
: > hardware that will be superceded before the year is out....
: Outside Japan you may be perfectly right, I would not know, but if you
: wanna know what's buggy try out
: Fujitsu PC with Japanese Windows 95 and their wonderful "FMV" softo....
I have more than enough bugs in OS/2 Japanese to satisfy my limited
sadomasochistic inclinations.
In any event, I cannot follow your logic. You would seem to be
saying that outside of Japan the "latest and greatest" may not be
worth it, but inside Japan ....
: > And, for the record, it is not that difficult to buy mail order from the
: > US....
: Earl, this is brillant, please share your wisdom with me and name me only
: one mail order company who ships Dell Dimension, Gateway G-series or
: similar top of the line product to Japan. I would be very grateful for good
: advice.
Check out DOS/V magazine (Japanese). The have an on-going column
dealing with the issues involved in mail order purchase.
: Online or off-line, I could not find any, except Acer (old and expensive)
: and Micron (I am still considering).....
: Dell in Japan do not sell Dimenesion PC, and Gateway in Akihabara do not
: sell the G-series.
: So much for the record......
Import the boards you want. Get a case with power supply. Build
what you need. If you need a brand name, go to an engraver and
get your name cut into a plate that you can attach to the
cabinet.
Also, since you seem to want really cutting edge kit, I can't
understand why you are even thinking of PeeCees. If you want
real muscle on your desktop, why not get something from Silicon
Graphics?
--
Earl H. Kinmonth, Kanji Users Service Operation (KUSO!),
University of Sheffield, Sheffield, England S10 2UJ
Thomas Kruemmer
Earl H. Kinmonth <kuso...@shef.ac.uk> wrote in article
<55nco8$t...@bignews.shef.ac.uk>...
> Thomas Kruemmer (tkru...@usa.net) wrote:
>
> : Earl H. Kinmonth <kuso...@shef.ac.uk> wrote in article
> : <55icf0$m...@bignews.shef.ac.uk>...
>
> : > What other countries have you surveyed?
>
> : Japan only, because I live here.
>
> That is a rather thin basis for claiming that Japan has price levels
> that would not be tolerated anywhere else in the world....
Earl, this is a Japan Newsgroup and at no time I had the intention to
present you with a scientific survey,
which I would be utterly incapable of producing owing to my lack of higher
education.
>
> : > Buying the latest of either gives you the
> : > privilege of paying a large premium to get either buggy software or
> : > hardware that will be superceded before the year is out....
>
> : Outside Japan you may be perfectly right, I would not know, but if you
> : wanna know what's buggy try out
> : Fujitsu PC with Japanese Windows 95 and their wonderful "FMV" softo....
>
> I have more than enough bugs in OS/2 Japanese to satisfy my limited
> sadomasochistic inclinations.
>
> In any event, I cannot follow your logic. You would seem to be
> saying that outside of Japan the "latest and greatest" may not be
> worth it, but inside Japan ....
Earl, now you are dissappointing me. I thought you were doing Japan
related studies and now you surprise me with
such a poorly researched statement. Didn't you know that most high end
value added products of Japan have
generally two types, two models, two spec, which are in the vast majority
of cases incompatible with each other?
The one type for export, the other one domestic (you may gues which one has
got the lower spec):
Take cars, motorcycles, computers, printers, watches, even cosmetics and
instant noodle soups.
>
> : > And, for the record, it is not that difficult to buy mail order from
the
> : > US....
>
> : Earl, this is brillant, please share your wisdom with me and name me
only
> : one mail order company who ships Dell Dimension, Gateway G-series or
> : similar top of the line product to Japan. I would be very grateful for
good
> : advice.
>
> Check out DOS/V magazine (Japanese). The have an on-going column
> dealing with the issues involved in mail order purchase.
They do not carry these products........but certainly good for home-made
computers.
> Import the boards you want. Get a case with power supply. Build
> what you need. If you need a brand name, go to an engraver and
> get your name cut into a plate that you can attach to the
> cabinet.
Earl, I really do not have the time for aquiring the know-how and deal with
homemade hardware conflicts.
>
> Also, since you seem to want really cutting edge kit, I can't
> understand why you are even thinking of PeeCees. If you want
> real muscle on your desktop, why not get something from Silicon
> Graphics?
>
Because that is really too good for me.
sparky - lord of light
Hello,
Sorry that you are having trouble buying a computer. However, there are
very interesting machines available in Japan.
I just bought a 133Mhz Sharp Widenote from T-Zone in Akihabara. It is
exactly the same size as an A4 size piece of paper but has a TFT screen
with a resolution of 1024x600 pixels. This is the best resolution in the
world on a portable (probably because sharp is one of the main
manufacturers of LCD panels
According to US computer magazines this model is not available yet, and
I have had it for over one month.
I rented the computer for 20,000yen/month so it did not cost too much
either.
Sparky
Michiaki Masuda
Thomas Kruemmer wrote:
> In USA, vie the Internet or in person, you can buy a top of the line
> desk-top computer 200MHz Pentium, 32 - 64 MB EDO RAM, 12X CD-ROM, plus all
> the gimmicks for about US$ 3000 - 3500.
He also wrote:
> Gateway in Akihabara do not sell the G-series.
This is from a flyer which I picked up at the Gateway store in
Akihabara last weekend.
<G6-200 Multimedia>
Intel 200 MHz Pentium Pro processor
32 MB EDO Memory
256 KB Internal Cache
3.8 GB Quantum IDE hard drive
.....
12X IDE CD-ROM drive
.....
US Robotics 28.8 kbps FAX modem
17-inch Vivitron color monitor
.....
Seems like it comes with other gimmicks which I really don't
undertand. (Don't blame me. I'm not a CS major.) The price is
398,800 yen (approx. $3,500). I'm not sure if this is what you are
complaining you cannot find, but if you are interested, call
0120-54-2001. It's toll free. After all, you may not get ripped
off in Japan so much as you seem to believe you would.
--Michiaki
Michael Starks
"Thomas Kruemmer" <tkru...@usa.net> wrote:
>Earl H. Kinmonth <kuso...@shef.ac.uk> wrote in article
><55icf0$m...@bignews.shef.ac.uk>...
>> And, for the record, it is not that difficult to buy mail order from the
>> US....
>
>Earl, this is brillant, please share your wisdom with me and name me only
>one mail order company who ships Dell Dimension, Gateway G-series or
>similar top of the line product to Japan. I would be very grateful for good
>advice.
Bear in mind that there are numerous US government restrictions on the
export of computer equipment. This undoubtedly plays a part in the
availability of US models in foreign markets.
----------------------------------------------------
Michael J. Starks
m...@wn.net
The Starks-Backer Foundation
"Serving America and Americans for Over Fifty Years"
http://web.wn.net/~usr/mjs/web/home.html
----------------------------------------------------
Earl H. Kinmonth
Michael Starks (m...@wn.net) wrote:
: "Thomas Kruemmer" <tkru...@usa.net> wrote:
: >Earl H. Kinmonth <kuso...@shef.ac.uk> wrote in article
: ><55icf0$m...@bignews.shef.ac.uk>...
: >> And, for the record, it is not that difficult to buy mail order from the
: >> US....
: >Earl, this is brillant, please share your wisdom with me and name me only
: >one mail order company who ships Dell Dimension, Gateway G-series or
: >similar top of the line product to Japan. I would be very grateful for good
: >advice.
: Bear in mind that there are numerous US government restrictions on the
: export of computer equipment. This undoubtedly plays a part in the
: availability of US models in foreign markets.
Despite trade disputes, Japan is not currently regarded as an enemy of
the US to which high tech items cannot be exported....
This does make me recall when I bought a Japanese WaPuRo (first and
last) with a 286 processor. It was regarded as state of the art, and I
had to call a US government agency in Tokyo to verify that it was
exportable to the US!
This shows how much US bureaucrats know about technology. The 286 was
so buggy and so limited even in its day that exporting it to the Soviet
Block would have done the Soviets more harm than good....
Mark Mavromatis
Michiaki Masuda wrote:
>
> Thomas Kruemmer wrote:
>
> > In USA, vie the Internet or in person, you can buy a top of the line
> > desk-top computer 200MHz Pentium, 32 - 64 MB EDO RAM, 12X CD-ROM, plus all
> > the gimmicks for about US$ 3000 - 3500.
>
> He also wrote:
> > Gateway in Akihabara do not sell the G-series.
>
> This is from a flyer which I picked up at the Gateway store in
> Akihabara last weekend.
<specs and info omitted>
I did some shopping around for a PC a couple of weeks ago in Osaka and
found
the prices to be fairly expensive (compared to US mail-order prices).
HOWEVER
I also contacted Dell and Gateway, 2 US companies that operate here, and
found
their prices to be EXTREMELY reasonable.
I purchased the below system from Dell for about 400,000 yen (with
today's
exchange rate around $3400) including taxes and shipping:
Dell Latitude XPi CD P150ST which is a ....
P150
256k Pipeline Burst Cache
16 megs EDO RAM
128-bit VGA adapter w/ "equivalent" 2 megs VRAM
12.1" TFT SVGA screen (65,000 colors at 800*600)
1.3 gig hard disk
16-bit SB-compatible sound/wavetable support
4-speaker "3d s2ound"
6X CD-ROM
Lithium-Ion Battery
This is MUCH more reasonably priced than the NEC crap
(sorry if this offends anyone, but I didn't think the
NEC notebooks I saw were worth anywhere NEAR the asking
prices I saw in Osaka) that I saw on the shelf 2 weeks
ago. Plus if I quote the same system in the US (using the
configurator on their homepage http://www.dell.com), the
same system comes out to $4600 NOT INCLUDING shipping or
sales tax (my US address is in Texas). ANyone have any
ideas why the US system is a thousand dollars more? I
hope I didn't forget to ask an important question! :(
I'm nervous because this is a first: finding something
that actually costs LESS in Japan than in the USA.
<If I did make a mistake please let me know... its not
too late to change the order> ;)
--
Mark Mavromatis
Research Intern
ma...@gf.hm.rd.sanyo.co.jp
Humanware Dept.
Sanyo Hypermedia Research Center
na...@nms.ac.jp
Mark Mavromatis (ma...@gf.hm.rd.sanyo.co.jp) wrote:
: Michiaki Masuda wrote:
: > Thomas Kruemmer wrote:
: > > In USA,
: > > the gimmicks for about US$ 3000 - 3500.
: > He also wrote:
: > > Gateway in Akihabara do not sell the G-series.
One of my friends bought a Gateway2000's G-something from their
Akihabara Showroom; Pentium-pro 180 MHz, 2.5GB-Hard disk, 32 MB RAM,
8X CD-ROM, 28KB MODEM, 17"-Vivitron monitor
plus sound system with a woofer (3 speakers) and
an Epson 500C? color printer.
Less than 31-man Yen (ca. $ 2900?) with tax, total!
: their prices to be EXTREMELY reasonable.
I agree!
nando nakazawa @nippon med sch, sendagi, tokyo