Computer slows to 1% speed randomly and at startup
the_tool_man
System: Dell Dimension E510, Windows XP SP3, 2GB Ram, purchased new in
2005.
Several days ago, my computer started randomly slowing down. Task
Manager indicated the CPU was at 1% or below. During these slow
periods, something as simple as refreshing the desktop icons could
take 5 minutes or more. This now happens every time on startup,
lasting about 15-20 minutes. It also happens randomly during the
day. I have:
1: Run disk cleanup, disk deframenter, etc.
2: Updated all virus definitions for McAfee Security Center, scanned,
found nothing.
3: Downloaded and run the Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool.
4: Downloaded and run AdAware Anniversary Edition, which removed a few
cookies, but didn't find anything else.
5: Installed Active SMART, which is monitoring the HD, but has
reported all is good for the last several days.
6: Installed Eusing registry cleaner, and done one cleanup cycle with
no effect upon the problem.
I have just about convinced myself that it is not a software or HD
problem. I noticed that while the main cooling fan works, it never
switches to high speed. I wonder if the CPU is overheating and going
into some limp mode. I have opened the case, vacuumed out all the
dust, and verified visually that the fan operates at slow speed.
Since the fan works, I assume the issue is with some temperature
sensor that tells the fan to speed up. I have tried using Speedfan to
monitor CPU temp or manipulate the fan speed, but it didn't work. I
have found no built-in utility for checking this. I did try leaving
the case open and using an external fan, but the computer case design
makes it difficult to direct airflow into the CPU heatsink from
outside. Regardless, the problem persists.
I could probably hot-wire the cooling fan to stay at high speed all
the time, but it's very loud, so I would only do this as a temporary
measure. Where might I find the temperature sensor, or is it built
into the CPU? Is there a utility for monitoring this? I'v'e spend a
couple of hours on the Dell support site, but not found any answers.
Posts to their tech support forum go unanswered, as well.
Thanks in advance,
John.
123Jim
"the_tool_man" <john_...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:a18f0f2d-0cee-4bc4...@z14g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Tried it in safe mode? (I'm thinking driver problem)
Have you tested your memory? (I'm thinking faulty memory module)
www.memtest86.org
I read a while back about a computer which was copying large files extremely
slowly. It turned out that the hard disk was not using the correct mode to
copy files. I'll look up the details if the above is not helping.
ShadowTek
> I read a while back about a computer which was copying large files
> extremely slowly. It turned out that the hard disk was not using the
> correct mode to copy files. I'll look up the details if the above is not
> helping.
Yeah, Windows XP has a sad habit of dropping back to PIO mode from time
to time, and without giving any warning to the user. Rebooting won't
reset it either, so you have to re-enable DMA mode manually.
I've had that happen to me at least twice.
123Jim
"ShadowTek" <Shad...@fake.email> wrote in message
news:grnrmp$26b$1...@reader.motzarella.org...
Thanks I could not remember the name of the modes
Here's why it happens and how to change it:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/IDE-DMA.mspx
kony
It seems you have a unique problem, most XP systems never
have that happen. Maybe a faulty cable or connector?
the_tool_man
wrote:
>
> Tried it in safe mode? (I'm thinking driver problem)
> Have you tested your memory? (I'm thinking faulty memory module)www.memtest86.org
>
> I read a while back about a computer which was copying large files extremely
> slowly. It turned out that the hard disk was not using the correct mode to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks 123Jim:
Safe mode made no difference.
I downloaded memtest86 (it's www.memtest86.com, by the way), burned a
bootable CD and ran the memory test twice. No errors.
Regards,
John.
the_tool_man
>
> Thanks I could not remember the name of the modes
>
> Here's why it happens and how to change it:http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/IDE-DMA.mspx
123Jim:
I investigated this, but everything is set to use DMA.
Regards,
John.
Paul
Is the slowdown only icon related ?
WinXP can have a couple problems. I've heard of "icon cache corruption",
where a database file needs to be deleted, so Windows can rebuild it.
In addition, sometimes people need to bump up the size of the icon cache.
You might try a Google on "icon cache" and see what pops up.
Paul
the_tool_man
>
> Is the slowdown only icon related ?
>
> WinXP can have a couple problems. I've heard of "icon cache corruption",
> where a database file needs to be deleted, so Windows can rebuild it.
> In addition, sometimes people need to bump up the size of the icon cache.
> You might try a Google on "icon cache" and see what pops up.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
No. I was just using the icon refresh as an example. It happens
every time at startup, and then randomly occurs during use of the
computer. I have found no pattern or trigger to make it happen.
I have tried placing a small fan blowing into the front of the case,
but this made no difference.
I downloaded Motherboard Monitor, but it doesn't support my
motherboard (or my motherboard doesn't have any temperature sensors).
Please keep the suggestions coming!
Regards,
John.
Paul
A reasonable program for monitoring, is Speedfan. At least, it
is still supported by the author. This will give you some
temperatures, if they're available on the hardware monitor
chip interface. This tool scans the low speed buses off the
Southbridge, looking for monitor chips.
http://www.almico.com/speedfan437.exe
For reviewing basic settings (like, are all the frequencies
correct), try this.
To examine the interrupt rate, as well as the processes on your
machine, there is the Sysinternals Process Explorer. Sysinternals
was acquired by Microsoft, which is why the downloads are now
hosted at Microsoft. When unzipped, you use "procexp.exe".
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
You can also use the Control Panels:Administrative tools:Performance
graph in Windows. Right click on the pane, and select "Add Counters". There
is a counter in the "processor" section, for "interrupt total".
When my system is idle, this reads about 130 interrupts/sec.
If I alt-tab out of a game, the video card might be generating
a couple thousand interrupts/sec, even though the game is
not running. Part of the fun with the Performance graph,
is setting the graph scale correctly. The scales never
make any sense. (If you use the counter that keeps track
of disk read/write rate, for example, you can use
HDTune to generate a known bandwidth loading.)
Maybe some of those tools will give you some more ideas.
To test your hard drive, you can use HDTune. Version 2.55
is free. My older 7200 RPM drives manage 60MB/sec near
the beginning of the disk, and 35-40MB/sec near the end
of the disk. If the disk is working properly, the benchmark
result should be a gently declining curve.
http://www.hdtune.com/download.html
Paul
darklight
Have you tried downloading a linux live cd and running the pc using that
just to rule out a hardware problem.
123Jim
>Regards,
>John.
You could try this:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/BootVis.shtml
"BootVis is a performance trace visualization utility that you can use with
Windows XP systems."
It shows you what is being loaded during boot and how long it is taking ...
so you might be able to spot what it is that's causing the delay at boot
time.
For example, bootvis tells me my boot is 'done ' in 75 seconds, but it takes
164 seconds before my computer is ready for use and idle. Explorer.exe
kicks in at 68.41 seconds. Also my 'driver init' time is 37.19 seconds and
starts at 4 seconds in.
the_tool_man
I downloaded CPU Stability Test 6.0, which let me do a CPU warming
test. With the task manager performance tab visible, I can start the
CPU test, and within 15 seconds, watch the scroll rate of the graph
essentially come to a stop. I have to click on the stop button for
the test and wait about 90 seconds before the computer responds and
the test stops. The computer cooling fan never speeds up above idle
the whole time. I have repeated this several times. I am convinced I
have a thermal management problem with the CPU. I visually checked
the motherboard for another header for the fan, but there isn't one.
I'm going to try hot-wiring the fan and see what happens.
Regards,
John.
kony
While it does seem possible there is a thermal problem,
usually a CPU will not heat up enough to crash or
downthrottle within 15 seconds if the only problem is the
fan not spinning up. In fact, a system can run for 15
seconds with the fan totally stopped in most systems and not
have risen much, perhaps 5 to 10C which on a properly cooled
system would tend to leave it still below the throttling
threshold.
If you have some heatsink grease, I'd pull the heatsink off,
clean off the original thermal interface material (may
require a petroleum solvent if it's the melted waxy type,
and the heatsink may come off much easier if you try to
remove it shortly after turning the system off so the
interface pad is still warm, OR reheat it with a hair dryer
or heat gun set _very_ low.
Examine both surfaces to be sure there are no
irregularities, then apply only a tiny, less than a grain of
rice sized blob on the center of the CPU then reinstall the
'sink.
CPU-Z will show you the clock speed of the CPU while you are
running the Stability Test or other stress tests.
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php
HWMonitor "might" show you accurate temperatures and/or
voltages, or it might misread them, but if you compare the
temps before a stress test and during it, you should see CPU
temp rise significantly either way if it is being reported.
http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php
the_tool_man
So much for jumping to conclusions. I was convinced it was a cooling
issue, but hotwiring the fan made no difference. Go here, if you're
interested:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.hardware/browse_frm/thread/967b79d5ede82627?hl=en#
In my search for info on the proprietary fan connections, I stumbled
across an online Dell service manual for my computer. It made
reference to a built-in diagnostic utility on a hidden partition of
the HD. I booted to that partition, ran the utility, and selected the
most comprehensive test. After 4 hours of testing, I learned two
things.
1: The fan speed controller works. There was a specific test for
speeding the fan up and seeing how fast it spins after a second or
two. It does not test whatever hardware measures the temperature, so
I guess thermal issues aren't entirely ruled out. However, see
learning number two...
2: During two of the lengthy HD tests, it found errors. During the
read test, it found Error code 0F00:0244 Unrecoverable data error or
media is write protected. During the verify test, it found Error code
0F00:1A44 with the same description. During both tests, it found
these errors on about 50 blocks (same ones both times). Also, the
sequence of sounds made by the HD when these errors occurred were
identical to those that happen when the computer slows. Conclusive?
I don't know.
ActiveSmart and other HD testing utilities I have still say the HD is
fine.
Regards,
John.
123Jim
You used the CPU Stability test and reported that the behaviour occurred
when you used the cpu heat test. I don't think that test would trouble the
hard drive at all. I imagine a very small amount of data would be swapped
between the processor and memory, If that, possibly it swaps data between
processor and cache, although I can't be sure about that. That leads me to
think about the processor again.
Someone suggested that you check that the heat sink is correctly attached to
the processor, by repasting with thermal paste. (in this thread or the other
one). Did you try that?
I would have thought however that if the heat ink was not contacting the
processor correctly the computer would just turn off rather than start
processing in some reduced state as you have mentioned. However maybe your
processor does that, and it might be worth a try.
cheers
Paul
So the conclusions are
1) Replace hard drive :-)
2) SMART test isn't as good as we thought.
Your priority now, is to save your data.
Paul
the_tool_man
> Someone suggested that you check that the heat sink is correctly attached to
> the processor, by repasting with thermal paste. (in this thread or the other
> one). Did you try that?
I haven't replaced the thermal paste. Maybe I it's been the HD all
along, and when I pulled the heat sink out I created a thermal issue.
Lack of contact with the heat sink might explain why hotwiring the fan
made no difference. I'll get some thermal paste and re-do the heat
sink again, just to make sure.
Regards,
John.
the_tool_man
> So the conclusions are
>
> 1) Replace hard drive :-)
>
> 2) SMART test isn't as good as we thought.
>
> Your priority now, is to save your data.
>
> Paul
Thankfully, I did a full backup three weeks ago (just in case
Conficker showed up).
Regards,
John.
~misfit~
Have you tried Hard Disk Sentinel? There's a trial version I believe. I
swear by it and would like to know what it says about your disk.
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
"Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.
John the WebTV Man
which causes the pc to slow down while the search and indexing is taking
place. It appears that this function can be disabled which is likely not
a problem unless you do a LOT of file searches within your pc.
Do a GOOGLE search for "Windows XP Search Index" and you will find a lot
of discussion/info. The following link has an overview of this
condition...and how to disable it.
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/09/18/turn-off-and-disable-search-indexing-service-in-windows-xp/