Poor Newegg Review For Gigabyte PS Gets Funny Response From Manufacturer
ShadowTek
Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The
manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might
enjoy it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
My favorite part of their reply:
"As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually only
used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft chassis
might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un common
chassis."
So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal that
will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao
philo
A credit to Newegg for allowing feedback from both the customer and mfg...
but you are right the response was absurd.
DevilsPGD
Wow. As a potential consumer, I'd be much happier with a "our PSU
simply isn't designed for that type of case" rather then a supplier who
attempts to attack the hardware I already selected.
I can't speak to "most" cases that place the PSU on the bottom, but I
have one case that does and it's probably the strongest case I own, with
the whole system easily weighing double any other desktop I own,
although not quite as much as my full tower servers loaded to capacity
with drives.
*shrugs* Gigabyte is currently on my shitlist anyway, so I guess I
don't count as a "lost" customer.
kony
It is a little crazy, but you didn't necessarily have to
graft in a length of wire and I'd have sent a $70 PSU back
before voiding the warranty, especially if it had free
shipping when purchased and you insist on no restocking fee
since they didn't list cable lengths.
The 12V extension cables are probably cheaper somewhere else
though, Newegg seems to want at least a few bucks for
shipping anything unless you're buying more at the time so
shipping cost is divided among several items.
Grinder
> *shrugs* Gigabyte is currently on my shitlist anyway,
> so I guess I don't count as a "lost" customer.
What did they do?
I've been happy with the products I've purchased, but annoyed by a
rebate on a recent motherboard. I understand that 3 months is fairly
"typical for the industry," but still don't like have to jump through
hoops.
When I complained to them that I did not like the idea that they were
gambling on me not being able to properly claim my rebate, and that put
them in an adversarial relationship with me, it sailed over their heads.
<grinds teeth />
I wish I could have purchased a half dozen of those motherboards, but
their fucking rebate pooched the deal.
Allen
Allen
Jan Alter
"Allen" <all...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_c-dnTyyLpNmmLDW...@giganews.com...
In agreement that the Gigabyte response to the oscillation is ridiculous.
But since the warranty is now voided and you have the noise problem I might
try throwing in some fabricated rubber washers between the PS and the case
to just try to limit any kind of vibration and see if it could help to stop
the noise. If it doesn't then it's completely a problem from within the PS
case and for that I would be contacting Gigabyte for either a replacement or
refund of your money. Adding a few inches of wire onto the cpu connector
would have nothing to do with the oscillation.
--
Jan Alter
bea...@verizon.net
DevilsPGD
<gri...@no.spam.maam.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>On 12/18/2009 8:57 PM, DevilsPGD wrote:
>> *shrugs* Gigabyte is currently on my shitlist anyway,
>> so I guess I don't count as a "lost" customer.
>
>What did they do?
I was a loyal Gigabyte fan for several builds (with a single Super Micro
transgression -- The single best board I've ever owned), so I didn't
even think twice when I was hunting for a new PC.
I don't even recall the model number anymore, but it was high end and
too new to have any real reviews (okay, that was my fault), it was just
a case of one thing after another didn't work, had quirks, etc.
The board was barely stable in it's default configuration, some of the
components just didn't seem to like each other, stuff like using both
on-board RAID and higher bandwidth USB 2 devices would bluescreen, their
solution would be to stop using one or the other to make the problem go
away, then the case would get closed.
I had RAM compatibility problems, their response was to look at their
list of compatible RAM. The fact that my RAM was on the list, and was
proven-good in another system didn't seem to matter.
Unfortunately for me, a couple of my friends bought identical systems
knowing that I'd have done all the research and only bought quality
gear, we all had similar issues, so it made me look like an idiot.
Eventually they offered to swap my board (although not my friends'
boards) for another one, I suggested a different replacement since the
one they suggested was missing Firewire headers (just had ports on the
back, so it met their checklist of compatible features) or something
specific I wanted, so I suggested a cheaper replacement option, they
agreed, shipped their initial offering anyway and refused to discuss the
matter since I had received a more expensive board.
This being my first, last and only experience with a motherboard
manufacturer's technical support, I was rather disillusioned.
I eBay'd the replacement, switched to ASUS and haven't looked back. Not
that the ASUS has been 100% painless, but it does what I need.
Honestly I realize it's probably a one-off anecdotal case, and everyone
makes a lemon here and there and horrible support isn't really
unexpected these days either, and given that I so rarely use tech
support, shifty support isn't a deal breaker -- The lesson is to buy
from a vendor with a better return policy.
Dave C.
>
> This being my first, last and only experience with a motherboard
> manufacturer's technical support, I was rather disillusioned.
>
> I eBay'd the replacement, switched to ASUS and haven't looked back.
> Not that the ASUS has been 100% painless, but it does what I need.
>
I wonder if that was during the period where Asus and Gigabyte were the
same company? -Dave
Dave C.
Gigabyte was right to bitch about the design of your case.
Unfortunately, Gigabyte chose the wrong reason to pan it. Obviously
cases with bottom mount power supplies can be very sturdily
constructed. But it's just plain WRONG to put the power supply on the
bottom. Most (almost all, probably) power supplies have cords that are
two short for this configuration.
Note I know that there is a new standard called BTX, but it was
supposed to be mainstream years ago. I'll bet most readers of this ng
still haven't heard of it, so...
I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX
case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will
have a problem with. -Dave
DevilsPGD
<no...@nohow.never> was claimed to have wrote:
>Gigabyte was right to bitch about the design of your case.
>Unfortunately, Gigabyte chose the wrong reason to pan it. Obviously
>cases with bottom mount power supplies can be very sturdily
>constructed. But it's just plain WRONG to put the power supply on the
>bottom. Most (almost all, probably) power supplies have cords that are
>two short for this configuration.
>Note I know that there is a new standard called BTX, but it was
>supposed to be mainstream years ago. I'll bet most readers of this ng
>still haven't heard of it, so...
>I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX
>case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will
>have a problem with. -Dave
Wrong... Why? Other then the cable length issue, what's your objection?
ShadowTek
>
> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX
> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will
> have a problem with. -Dave
For $70, I wouldn't have been any skin off their back to toss in an
extention adapter. Although, I think the *best* solution would be to include
cable length measurements with the PS stats, which would allow a person
to measure beforehand, and buy an extention seperately if needed.
Actually, it seems like a better idea to put PSs on the bottom, thus
keeping the heaviest component as low as possible. It make the case less
like to tip over if hit, and it also makes the case more stable to
handle when you have to carry it somewhere.
I'm not sure if there was any specific reasoning as to why they started
off putting them on top in the first place, but *that* decision seems a
little odd.
ShadowTek
>
> In agreement that the Gigabyte response to the oscillation is ridiculous.
> But since the warranty is now voided and you have the noise problem I might
> try throwing in some fabricated rubber washers between the PS and the case
> to just try to limit any kind of vibration and see if it could help to stop
> the noise.
Oh god, I've already tried everything that I can think of to isolate
those damn noises. I tried soft washers between the screws and the case,
and the PS already rests on pads that are build into the case bottom. I
tried building a custom enclosure the absorb the noise, but they're just
to intense to contain (although the enclosure does an excellent job of
dulling all the other sounds in the case).
Actually, I can stop the rapid occilation if I press down on the top of
the PS and hold it with my hand, so I'm guessing that the metal of the
case is just too thin, and it's sort of bouncing up and down. I tried
gluing a small 1/8 inch thick metal plate on top of it to try and
reinforce it a little, but that didn't work.
> If it doesn't then it's completely a problem from within the PS
> case and for that I would be contacting Gigabyte for either a replacement or
> refund of your money. Adding a few inches of wire onto the cpu connector
> would have nothing to do with the oscillation.
I've still got a use for it, so it's not a total loss. My dad wants my
old computer, so I'm going to swap out my old PS with this one.
His hearing isn't as good as mine, so that should solve that problem. :)
DevilsPGD
<Shad...@invalid.invalid> was claimed to have wrote:
>On 2009-12-19, Dave C. <no...@nohow.never> wrote:
>>
>> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX
>> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will
>> have a problem with. -Dave
>
>For $70, I wouldn't have been any skin off their back to toss in an
>extention adapter. Although, I think the *best* solution would be to include
>cable length measurements with the PS stats, which would allow a person
>to measure beforehand, and buy an extention seperately if needed.
>
>Actually, it seems like a better idea to put PSs on the bottom, thus
>keeping the heaviest component as low as possible. It make the case less
>like to tip over if hit, and it also makes the case more stable to
>handle when you have to carry it somewhere.
This is a pretty major benefit, my P180 is massively heavy, but it's
very stable due to having such a low center of gravity with the PSU and
drives mounted as low as possible.
The concept of separate head-zones is handy too, as is the better
airflow at and around the CPU.
>I'm not sure if there was any specific reasoning as to why they started
>off putting them on top in the first place, but *that* decision seems a
>little odd.
I suspect it wasn't an intentional design decision, as much as just the
way things ended up when desktop cases got turned on their sides and we
got towers.
kony
IMO, a power supply can be put anywhere, so long as the
system doesn't really "need" the airflow pattern created by
it's exhaust fan, has supplimental fans instead.
The larger issue is when a board isn't designed for this, as
we see in this topic when the cables need routed to the
opposite end of the case across everything. For this reason
I blame the combo of motherboard and case more than PSU and
(everything else), but ultimately there is a problem
chosing a BTX case if you don't want to use a motherboard
with a power socket in the right place.
kony
<Shad...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 2009-12-19, Jan Alter <bea...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> In agreement that the Gigabyte response to the oscillation is ridiculous.
>> But since the warranty is now voided and you have the noise problem I might
>> try throwing in some fabricated rubber washers between the PS and the case
>> to just try to limit any kind of vibration and see if it could help to stop
>> the noise.
>
>Oh god, I've already tried everything that I can think of to isolate
>those damn noises. I tried soft washers between the screws and the case,
>and the PS already rests on pads that are build into the case bottom. I
>tried building a custom enclosure the absorb the noise, but they're just
>to intense to contain (although the enclosure does an excellent job of
>dulling all the other sounds in the case).
Are you sure it's the PSU? If so there's only one thing it
could be, an imbalance fan. Swapping the fan should resolve
the problem, though a fan that bad would have been a
reasonable reason to return the unit for replacement or
refund.
>
>Actually, I can stop the rapid occilation if I press down on the top of
>the PS and hold it with my hand, so I'm guessing that the metal of the
>case is just too thin, and it's sort of bouncing up and down. I tried
>gluing a small 1/8 inch thick metal plate on top of it to try and
>reinforce it a little, but that didn't work.
Ok, but sometimes vibrations make something else resonate.
Pressing down isn't necessarily evidence, BUT if you were to
stick a plastic drinking straw into the fan intake near the
hub to stop the fan, with it no longer spinning and no other
pressure applied to anything in the case the noise should
stop.
>
>> If it doesn't then it's completely a problem from within the PS
>> case and for that I would be contacting Gigabyte for either a replacement or
>> refund of your money. Adding a few inches of wire onto the cpu connector
>> would have nothing to do with the oscillation.
>
>I've still got a use for it, so it's not a total loss. My dad wants my
>old computer, so I'm going to swap out my old PS with this one.
>His hearing isn't as good as mine, so that should solve that problem. :)
A significantly imbalanced fan will wear out faster. It
could be worth the expense of a new fan, or merely time if
you already have a suitable one, to replace the fan now
rather than possibly having to do so later... especially
when the modification to the wiring has voided the warranty
so if it fails in only a year you have no recourse but to
buy a new PSU.
SteveH
> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX
> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will
> have a problem with. -Dave
Do you make a habit of talking bollocks in every post?
--
SteveH
Dave C.
Do you know how many people complain about their brand new power supply
not fitting their case because the power supply is mounted on the
bottom? It seems at least 9 out of 10 builds with these oddball cases,
the first problem that needs to be ironed out is that the cables won't
reach where they need to go. Some few builders do their research
carefully enough to avoid the problem...or they get lucky and the PSU
they chose just (coincidentally) turned out to be one that fits OK.
But the bottom mount really does create problems for
builders...especially inexperienced ones. -Dave
Dave C.
> I'm not sure if there was any specific reasoning as to why they
> started off putting them on top in the first place, but *that*
> decision seems a little odd.
Many computers were cooled with only one cooling fan. That is the one
that was mounted on the back of the power supply. Air would be pulled
through the case, then through the power supply, then exhausted out the
back of the power supply. Therefore it made sense for the bottom/back
of the PSU to be mounted as high as possible in the case. That's the
direction all the hot air was going anyway, so it made cooling more
efficient to have the PSU way up top.
The PSU still assists somewhat in cooling the case...and more
importantly the components in the case. The only advantage to having
the PSU bottom mounted is that the PSU fan will be drawing more cool
air into the PSU itself. In turn, this means you need a shitload of
airflow to cool the case (and components like the northbridge, CPU and
GPU in particular), because much of your cool intake air is now going
down low where it's not cooling a damned thing. -Dave
Dave C.
> >I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX
> >case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers
> >will have a problem with. -Dave
>
> Wrong... Why? Other then the cable length issue, what's your
> objection?
You need a shitload of extra fans (adding extra noise) to
counter-balance the fact that much of your cool intake air is going in
the wrong direction to cool anything. -Dave
--
Dave C. <no...@nohow.never>
SteveH
Complete and utter rubbish. You just need a properly designed case and
system.
We have two systems running here in Antec P180's (PSU in the bottom).
One has a Q6600 the other a C2D e6750. I doubt if you stood anywhere in this
room with a decibel meter, it would register anything much (if anything).
Yet both CPU's are running at <35c
I suggest before making stupid comments, you actually take the time to have
a look at some of these cases.
--
SteveH
SteveH
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:11:28 GMT
> "SteveH" <steve.ho...@THISblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Dave C. wrote:
>>
>>> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX
>>> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers
>>> will have a problem with. -Dave
>>
>> Do you make a habit of talking bollocks in every post?
>>
>> --
>> SteveH
>
> Do you know how many people complain about their brand new power
> supply not fitting their case because the power supply is mounted on
> the bottom?
And whose fault is that? The case maker or the builder for not checking
specs in the first place?
It seems at least 9 out of 10 builds with these oddball
> cases, the first problem that needs to be ironed out is that the
> cables won't reach where they need to go.
See above
Some few builders do their
> research carefully enough to avoid the problem...or they get lucky
> and the PSU they chose just (coincidentally) turned out to be one
> that fits OK. But the bottom mount really does create problems for
> builders...
Never created a problem for me.
especially inexperienced ones.
This is how they gain experience.
-Dave
--
SteveH
Ken Maltby
"ShadowTek" <Shad...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnhirfru.l...@shadowtek.localdomain...
For my last upgrade and migration I used a couple of Antec 300s, and
have no problem with them or the fact that the PSU is on the bottom of
the case. I think the large fans on the top and at the back corner, setup a
very good airflow, better than what a PSU at the top would provide.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
Luck;
Ken
ShadowTek
>
> The concept of separate head-zones is handy too, as is the better
> airflow at and around the CPU.
One thing that's nice about my current case is there's a 23cm fan on the
top exhausting air outward. Having the PS on the bottom allows for that
large flow of uninterrupted air making its way out of the top, which also
seems natural since "up" is the direction that hot air wants to go
anyway.
ShadowTek
>
> Many computers were cooled with only one cooling fan. That is the one
> that was mounted on the back of the power supply. Air would be pulled
> through the case, then through the power supply, then exhausted out the
> back of the power supply. Therefore it made sense for the bottom/back
> of the PSU to be mounted as high as possible in the case. That's the
> direction all the hot air was going anyway, so it made cooling more
> efficient to have the PSU way up top.
Oh yeah, my first computer was like that. I forgot all about the fact
that they didn't use seperate case fans. lol
> The PSU still assists somewhat in cooling the case...and more
> importantly the components in the case. The only advantage to having
> the PSU bottom mounted is that the PSU fan will be drawing more cool
> air into the PSU itself. In turn, this means you need a shitload of
> airflow to cool the case (and components like the northbridge, CPU and
> GPU in particular), because much of your cool intake air is now going
> down low where it's not cooling a damned thing. -Dave
Oh, my case has a shitload of airflow anyway. I've got a 23cm in the
top, another one of the side pushing in, 2 14cm fans on the front
cooling the 2 HD racks, and a 12cm in the rear pushing out.
ShadowTek
>
> counter-balance the fact that much of your cool intake air is going in
> the wrong direction to cool anything. -Dave
In reference to all my case fans that I listed in a previous post,
they're very quiet. Actually, my graphics card fan is the only noticible
one of the bunch, and it's quite tollerable anyway.
*Actually*, my hard drives make *far* more noise than any of my fans
(not that my HDs are abnormally loud in any way).
ShadowTek
>
> For my last upgrade and migration I used a couple of Antec 300s, and
> have no problem with them or the fact that the PSU is on the bottom of
> the case. I think the large fans on the top and at the back corner, setup a
> very good airflow, better than what a PSU at the top would provide.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
I remember looking at that one. I considered it, but I decided on a
full-sized tower.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811517004
Grinder
The Antec Three Hundred is a bottom-mounted-psu case, and it has two
160mm fans, at right angles, a few centimeters from the cpu. The bottom
front of the case is well-ventilated and has room for a couple of
massive fans as well.
I've built a few systems with the case. I leave the three-speed fans on
low, which keeps that very quiet, and the temps don't make it to, or
over, 40C.
Do I need a shitload (or even a fraction of a shitload) of fans to put
those systems right?
kony
Cases these days, at least anything decent besides this
factor, tend to have more than enough fan mounts... unless
someone is building a higher end gaming system.
Regardless of where the PSU exhausts, as long as there is
one low RPM 120mm fan at the top rear it is enough for the
typical PC.
That is, beyond where the PSU is, the same arrangement as
any other case. Only other fan needed might be right
across from the video card if someone has particularly hot
running (esp. overclocked) card(s), unless the system is in
a particularly hot environment in which case another fan
would be prudent no matter where the PSU is located.
kony
If you consider a single 120mm fan at low RPM a shitload,
then yes.
Modern systems aren't THAT hard to cool. When you wrote
about old systems that had only the PSU fan as an exhaust,
those were typically about 60W, cooled solely by a single
80mm fan. Today with both the PSU fan (No matter where it
is, so long as it exhausts) and a 120mm fan moving more air
than the 80mm PSU fans did, you have an increase in airflow
correspondent to the increase in heat produced.
Paul
There is an equation, to work out what a shitload is.
CFM = 3.16 x Watts / Delta_T_degrees_F [ Formula for case cooling ]
If the entire contents of the computer case dissipated 200W
(components and PSU waste heat), and you wanted to meet the
"well cooled" criterion of 7C difference between case and
ambient (7C = 10F), then the equation gives you
CFM = 3.16 * 200 / 10 = 63.2 CFM
That amount of air can be moved by a single fan.
If you allow a larger delta_T, it means the components in the case
will have a hotter environment to work in, your hard drive gets
warmer and so on. You don't have to shoot for 7C if you don't want to.
Paul
Ken Maltby
"kony" <sp...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:r59ti510a75fq3fan...@4ax.com...
The one exception I might take to that is where an intake
fan might be needed to overcome the resistance of a filter
and still supply a good flow of air for cooling hard drives.
This will usually only be a factor in extreme/dusty
environments.
Luck;
Ken
DevilsPGD
<no...@nohow.never> was claimed to have wrote:
A "shitload"? One 120mm fan will push more air then a 80mm (or even
120mm) which needs to push air through the PSU.
In addition, you get lower average temperatures, so your fans (both on
the PSU if it's temperature regulated) and the one you install at the
top of your case can run at lower RPMs.
kony
<kma...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> That is, beyond where the PSU is, the same arrangement as
>> any other case. Only other fan needed might be right
>> across from the video card if someone has particularly hot
>> running (esp. overclocked) card(s), unless the system is in
>> a particularly hot environment in which case another fan
>> would be prudent no matter where the PSU is located.
>>
>>
>
> The one exception I might take to that is where an intake
>fan might be needed to overcome the resistance of a filter
>and still supply a good flow of air for cooling hard drives.
>This will usually only be a factor in extreme/dusty
>environments.
>
> Luck;
> Ken
I wouldn't really call a case design very good if the filter
panel is both restrictive enough and small enough it needs
the additional fan to overcome filter resistance, but I
would still want a front intake fan behind the filter panel
so the case is positive pressurized to the extend it pulls
most air through that filter panel instead of the little
gaps elsewhere.
On the other hand, one case I set up with a filter panel I'd
added, I had doubts whether the user would clean the filter
panel as often as it should be so I left the case negatively
pressurized with most of the air being filtered but if the
filter were to get clogged it doesn't completely starve the
system, at that point a higher % of air coming through the
cracks is better than nothing (and relatively it was a low
power, energy conservative system).
Newbee
> I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from
> Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The
> manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might
> enjoy it.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
Like another posted earlier, you indeed were fortunate enough to have
your review posted by Newegg. I had mine rejected for posting that the
item was defective. At least they had the decency to reply back and
tell me this was the reason.