ASUS P4B533-VM MOBO Problem
j...@eldorado.com
not had before. The Northbridge controller has a heat sink held
tightly ontop of it with 4 very tense springees that clip onto 4 loops
sticking up from the mobo. Two of the 4 loops have pulled out of the
mobo enabling the heat sink to fly off its position.
I can't anchor the heat sink back down without these two wayward
loops, which I luckily have found. They are about 1/2" in size and
actually stick down into small holes in the mobo. I suspect the loop
ends protrude through the mobo and are probably held in place with
some sort of clips, which I do not have.
Has anyone out there encountered this problem? I am wondering if I
can buy whatever retention device I will need to grasp the loop ends,
or whether I can substitute something. Maybe I can buy two new loops
complete with the retention's?
I am going to lift the mobo out of the tower to get a peek at the
other two loop ends under the mobo to see what I need. I just thought
I would ask if anyone has had this problem or has advice.
As a sidebar, I have a separate AGP graphics card on this mobo. So, I
really do not need the on-board graphics. However, I get no raster,
so I have to assume that I need to cool the on-board controller
anyway.
Duke
kony
>I have a ASUS P4B533-VM mobo that is facing me with a problem I have
>not had before. The Northbridge controller has a heat sink held
>tightly ontop of it with 4 very tense springees that clip onto 4 loops
>sticking up from the mobo. Two of the 4 loops have pulled out of the
>mobo enabling the heat sink to fly off its position.
>
>I can't anchor the heat sink back down without these two wayward
>loops, which I luckily have found. They are about 1/2" in size and
>actually stick down into small holes in the mobo. I suspect the loop
>ends protrude through the mobo and are probably held in place with
>some sort of clips, which I do not have.
Look closely at them to determine if they have pulled out of
the board holes or have broken off at the board surface.
Often these loops are not held in with clips, they are
soldered on like the other parts.
If the solder joint has broken (or even if there were a
clip), you'll have to remove the board to access the rear.
>
>Has anyone out there encountered this problem? I am wondering if I
>can buy whatever retention device I will need to grasp the loop ends,
>or whether I can substitute something. Maybe I can buy two new loops
>complete with the retention's?
No need to buy loops and I don't know if anyone would sell
them alone. All you need if the current ones are broken is
to bend and cut a same-diameter paperclip into a loop, rough
the surface slightly where the solder would adhere and
solder them in. On the unlikely chance the board also has
holes around the chip you might be able to use a heatsink
held on with clips meant for these holes instead of the
spring-latch type that needs the loops... but looking at the
following picture I see no such holes, just what looks like
typical soldered-in loops:
http://www.2it.com.cn/shop/shop105083/uploadimage/product/200887164340872.jpg
>
>I am going to lift the mobo out of the tower to get a peek at the
>other two loop ends under the mobo to see what I need. I just thought
>I would ask if anyone has had this problem or has advice.
Just make sure you do a good job resoldering them or they
may pull right back out when pressure is applied from the
spring clip.
>
>As a sidebar, I have a separate AGP graphics card on this mobo. So, I
>really do not need the on-board graphics. However, I get no raster,
>so I have to assume that I need to cool the on-board controller
>anyway.
>
>Duke
The board could be damaged beyond repair at this point, if
you leave it shut off long enough to be sure it is cool,
then upon power on (without any video card installed), at
that point you should have video output, at that point it
will not have heated up enough that it prevents the video
from working (but immediately shut it off so it doesn't
overheat after this test).
If you get no video doing that, and none doing same with an
AGP card installed (also shutting down immediately if there
is no video and no heatsink installed), try clearing CMOS
and try the test again. If still no video the northbridge
is probably permanently damaged from having no heatsink
while running previously.
The board appears to use Intel 845G chipset, this is a flat
epoxy topped chip rather than a bare flipchip so if it is
beyond your means to resolder the loops on you might be able
to thoroughly clean off the heatsink base and chipset top
(use petroleum solvent if there is stubborn residue
remaining) and remount the heatsink with thermal epoxy
instead of the clip, but ultimately soldering the loops back
on, cleaning off the chip and heatsink, and using thermal
grease is a better option.
kony
wrote:
>The board appears to use Intel 845G chipset, this is a flat
>epoxy topped chip rather than a bare flipchip so if it is
>beyond your means to resolder the loops on you might be able
>to thoroughly clean off the heatsink base and chipset top
>(use petroleum solvent if there is stubborn residue
>remaining) and remount the heatsink with thermal epoxy
>instead of the clip, but ultimately soldering the loops back
>on, cleaning off the chip and heatsink, and using thermal
>grease is a better option.
I think the above is wrong, that 845G chipset is an open
flipchip so you cannot use thermal epoxy, must instead
solder the same or replacement loops.
j...@eldorado.com
>Look closely at them to determine if they have pulled out of
>the board holes or have broken off at the board surface.
>Often these loops are not held in with clips, they are
>soldered on like the other parts.
>
>If the solder joint has broken (or even if there were a
>clip), you'll have to remove the board to access the rear.
Yeh - I figured I will have to pull the mobo to see underside.
>
>No need to buy loops and I don't know if anyone would sell
>them alone. All you need if the current ones are broken is
>to bend and cut a same-diameter paperclip into a loop, rough
>the surface slightly where the solder would adhere and
>solder them in. On the unlikely chance the board also has
>holes around the chip you might be able to use a heatsink
>held on with clips meant for these holes instead of the
>spring-latch type that needs the loops... but looking at the
>following picture I see no such holes, just what looks like
>typical soldered-in loops:
>http://www.2it.com.cn/shop/shop105083/uploadimage/product/200887164340872.jpg
>
>
That's it, all right. There are four spring-wire clips, two on each
side. There are eight holes in the mobo, four of which have the loops
in place and seem all right. Paper clip is a good suggestion. I
haven't checked if the other four holes are open or have a broke piece
of the other four loops still in the holes. I don't think so - from
the appearance of the ends of the loops. As I said in an earlier
reply, I am having many other personal problems making my time to deal
with this sparse. I'll get back to both of you in a bit.
>Just make sure you do a good job resoldering them or they
>may pull right back out when pressure is applied from the
>spring clip.
There seems to be major pressure. The sink must fit terribly tight
against the chip.
>The board could be damaged beyond repair at this point, if
>you leave it shut off long enough to be sure it is cool,
>then upon power on (without any video card installed), at
>that point you should have video output, at that point it
>will not have heated up enough that it prevents the video
>from working (but immediately shut it off so it doesn't
>overheat after this test).
I have been able to get video back - from the AGP graphics card.
Why the owner couldn't I have no ides at this point.
>
>If you get no video doing that, and none doing same with an
>AGP card installed (also shutting down immediately if there
>is no video and no heatsink installed), try clearing CMOS
>and try the test again. If still no video the northbridge
>is probably permanently damaged from having no heatsink
>while running previously.
Yes. I have figgured that from the outset.
>
>The board appears to use Intel 845G chipset, this is a flat
>epoxy topped chip rather than a bare flipchip so if it is
>beyond your means to resolder the loops on you might be able
>to thoroughly clean off the heatsink base and chipset top
>(use petroleum solvent if there is stubborn residue
>remaining) and remount the heatsink with thermal epoxy
>instead of the clip, but ultimately soldering the loops back
>on, cleaning off the chip and heatsink, and using thermal
>grease is a better option.
Thermal epoxy? I did not know of that. That may be a great idea.
There is thermal grease on top of the chip though.
Thanks again
Duke
j...@eldorado.com
What is an 'open flip chip'? Please excuse my ignorance.
Duke
Paul
<<snip>>
>
> Thermal epoxy? I did not know of that. That may be a great idea.
> There is thermal grease on top of the chip though.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Duke
Thermal epoxy is unforgiving. You get one chance to get it
right. You can't remove it, without damage to the component
you applied it to.
I remember one poster here, who managed to glue something
on crooked with thermal epoxy, and we had to explain to him,
it was going to look like it did today, forever :-) So
every time he looks inside the computer, he'll be reminded
of the permanence of thermal epoxy.
I've heard of some clever individual, mixing thermal epoxy
with something else, to weaken the epoxy, with the intention
of making it removable. If you've got the time for that kind
of chemistry research, more power to you.
Paul
j...@eldorado.com
>Thermal epoxy is unforgiving. You get one chance to get it
>right. You can't remove it, without damage to the component
>you applied it to.
>
>I remember one poster here, who managed to glue something
>on crooked with thermal epoxy, and we had to explain to him,
>it was going to look like it did today, forever :-) So
>every time he looks inside the computer, he'll be reminded
>of the permanence of thermal epoxy.
>
>I've heard of some clever individual, mixing thermal epoxy
>with something else, to weaken the epoxy, with the intention
>of making it removable. If you've got the time for that kind
>of chemistry research, more power to you.
>
> Paul
Nope - I don't have any extra time these days.
Thanks
Duke
kony
See the pics on this page:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cn/642,review-642-2.html
The top 845G flipchip has a flipped over die in the center
with minimal protection while the southbridge has the die
encased in epoxy to create a flat plastic-like top that
covers most of the chip, but is not good at tolerating or
conducting heat so it can't be used on higher powered chips.
kony
wrote:
>j...@eldorado.com wrote:
Arctic Silver does have instructions somewhere for the mix
ratio, it "might" (Or might not) be 1:1 with their grease
but personally I would never trust such a mix, would be
afraid it would come off during one of the thermal cycles.
I do epoxy lots of 'sinks though, or at least used to before
things that needed 'sinks more regularly had mounting holes
adjacent on the PCB. Main gripe is the epoxy seems to go
bad, I end up buying smaller quantities and storing it in
the coldest part of the refrigerator, making it seem to stay
good for about 2 years tops.