CAS attack

[bad sector]

Computer Acquisition Syndrom

My trusty old Asus g73 has finally given up the ghost, it was a VERY capable laptop but I hated every minute of its 10+ year reign. Now I'm free, looking for what could be described as a DIY'ers choice award candidate:

Nothing black
prefer rugged, not essential
large black letters on non-wearing light keycaps
easy to change keyboard
NO backlit nothing
NO slim-slim, special-tools, eyecandy
dual ssd bays for easy removal
4 usb, 1 card, 1 hdmi, 1 eSata, etc. ports
16+ GB non-soldered RAM
i7 or better/equivalent AMD or Apple cpu
no nvidia drivers
reliable easy to change mini audio jacks
12"-13" screen 1920x1080 or 1920x1200
12+ hour battery
Nothing microsoft

I'll think of a few others..

[KenW]

You have very high hopes. Hope you have the cash !


KenW

[bad sector]

The g73 cost me 2000cdn back then, died within a month so I returned it. The same model was no longer available so I made the mistake of upscaling for about 2200. In todays money that should read maybe 3000, any more is a deal-breaker.

I doubt if Apple make anything like this at all within my budget (I'd install MAC-OS and 5 linux distros on it). Any wisdom out there with experience on Panasonic rugeds?

[VanguardLH]

bad sector wrote:

> Computer Acquisition Syndrom
>
> My trusty old Asus g73 has finally given up the ghost, it was a VERY
> capable laptop but I hated every minute of its 10+ year reign. Now
> I'm free, looking for what could be described as a DIY'ers choice
> award candidate:
>
> Nothing black

Get whatever color or finish you want. Look at your favorite online
sellers to see what cases they sell to pick a color you like.

> prefer rugged, not essential

Get an all-metal case although the front bezel might be plastic. For a
good seller, or by looking at the mfr's site, you can see if they say
the mils of thickness for the metal.

> large black letters on non-wearing light keycaps

Does "light" keycaps mean lighted keys? Look for laser etched keys that
pour in a different dyed plastic (aka dual injection molding). Those
will wear off a lot slower. The size of the keys depend on the size of
the keyboard.

> easy to change keyboard

They are all easily changed. They plug in using PS/2 or USB.

> NO backlit nothing

When reading the candidates of keyboards you like per the above
criteria, they'll note if the keys are lit. To them, that's a selling
feature for which they can charge more.

> NO slim-slim, special-tools, eyecandy

Don't know what is "slim-slim". Is the size of the case? If so, you'll
want a medium tower case, or even a tall tower which should have more
drive bays (some only internally accessed) to allow for future
expansion.

> dual ssd bays for easy removal

Do you mean bays, as in openings in the front bezel to allow you to use
removable drive hardware? Bays are openings in the front bezel. Not
much point in exposing the SSDs to the outside since there's nothing to
see on them. Bays are usually used for removable media, so you can
insert and eject media from the drive, like CD/BD optical drives,
diskette drive (they still exist), Zip drives, or other removable media.
Cages inside the case can have multiple drive slots. The top cage is
usually sized to handle 5-1/4" drives while the bottom cage is for 3.5"
drives. SSDs are 3.5" drives. You'll need 3.5"-to-5.25" adapters to
put them into the top cage.

> 4 usb, 1 card, 1 hdmi, 1 eSata, etc. ports

Look at the mobo for the number of USB ports on the backpanel. Also
check if it has headers to let you connect to front USB ports in the
front bezel, but the case will need to have the wire harness already
attached to the front ports.

"1 card" of WHAT?

HDMI has been around so long that you'd have to buy a really old mobo,
if you can find one, that doesn't have it.

Don't bother with eSATA. Get a mobo with USB3 headers to the backpanel
and optionally to the front panel.

"etc" includes all hardware other than mentioned, so no way to address
all of that.

If you are a gamer, you'll want a mobo that has a backpanel PS/2 ports
for keyboard and mouse. They are still faster since they work using
interrupts instead of USB that works via polling. If not a gamer, you
don't care about the keyboard and mouse other than PS/2 keyboards
support more N-key presses (more keys can be concurrently pressed with
all them recognized versus USB keyboards that have just a handful of
concurrent keypresses recognized). Rarely do you go beyond 3 keys in a
combo press, but games can often use multiple concurrent keys,
especially when using both hands for a key combo.

> 16+ GB non-soldered RAM

System RAM had hardly been soldered onto the mobo for over a couple
decades. There may be a little bit to support the BIOS/UEFI firmware,
but system RAM has you buying DIMM modules to use in slots. If you
think you'll never need more than 16GB, get a mobo with 2 slots, and put
8GB modules in each. Else, get a mobo with 4 slots, insert either 1
16GB module, or 2 8GB modules. In the past, dual-mode was touted as
being faster by spreading writes across paired memory modules, but
nowadays it is a non-issue. You might want more RAM slots on the mobo
that you initially consume to provide for later expansion. No mention
of what you plan to run on the computer, but you might find software, or
lots of it that you want concurrently loaded, and hit the RAM wall
sooner than you planned.

> i7 or better/equivalent AMD or Apple cpu

AMD doesn't make Intel's i7 CPUs. i7 means an Intel CPU. Check prices
on CPUs. You may find there is little different in i7 to i9 CPUs, but
which you get depends on the mobo you buy.

Unless you're planning on iOS, why would you want an Apple CPU?

> no nvidia drivers

Then get an AMD video card. My recollection on nVidia is that it was,
at one time, preferred to AMD, because nVidia has better support for
Linux which seems where you are going with the OS although you didn't
make mention of which OS you want.

> reliable easy to change mini audio jacks

Change them? You plan on pulling them out? Look for a mobo, or
ancilliary software that comes with the mobo that lets you reassign the
jacks to different functions.

> 12"-13" screen 1920x1080 or 1920x1200

Wow, that's a tiny monitor for that resolution. Are you building a
totable PC? That could conflict with a desire for future expansion by
having more storage slots in the cages to increase your storage
capacity.

> 12+ hour battery

Just what are you trying to build? A smartphone or tablet?

Ah, I did a Google Image search on "Asus g73". You have a laptop.
You're trying to build a new laptop from scratch? Not likely, so buy a
new laptop that matches on your list of features rather than worry about
you trying to find hardware for a frankenjob laptop you build.

> Nothing microsoft

Just because Windows came pre-installed on the laptop does not preclude
you from wiping the drive(s) to put whatever OS you want on them.
Although few, there are some laptops that come with Linux.

> I'll think of a few others..

Make up your criteria list, but you should really research what you can
find rather than getting others to make suggestions that would either
understimate what you should get, or overestimate to be safe giving you
features you don't want or won't use. If you're going to build your
laptop (don't know anyone that has despite being in the computer
industry for decades), compile your list to then hunt around for the
best match. If you're buying a pre-built laptop (the mostly likely
scenario), go to the online sellers you trust with your criteria. Some
let you walk through a checklist that will narrow your search there.

[bad sector]

On 6/24/22 23:18, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>
>> Computer Acquisition Syndrom
>>
>> My trusty old Asus g73 has finally given up the ghost, it was a VERY
>> capable laptop but I hated every minute of its 10+ year reign. Now
>> I'm free, looking for what could be described as a DIY'ers choice
>> award candidate:
>>
>> Nothing black
>
> Get whatever color or finish you want. Look at your favorite online
> sellers to see what cases they sell to pick a color you like.


>> prefer rugged, not essential
>
> Get an all-metal case although the front bezel might be plastic. For a
> good seller, or by looking at the mfr's site, you can see if they say
> the mils of thickness for the metal.

Thanks for the detailed response!

>> large black letters on non-wearing light keycaps
>
> Does "light" keycaps mean lighted keys? Look for laser etched keys that
> pour in a different dyed plastic (aka dual injection molding). Those
> will wear off a lot slower. The size of the keys depend on the size of
> the keyboard.

That technology is what I need. Backlighting is useless
for my money but a white keyboard with black letters
works just fine in low light and "I" never do anything
in blacked-out (non) lighting.

So on my g73 the minute the backlighting crapped out
I imediately replaced the keyboard but it was one
of the cheapos that the printed letters wear off of.

As for the size of lettering, I find it pathetic that
a 1.x cm keycap should have 6mm thin lettering on it
in the center, but a lot of them do just that.
Artificial-Stupidity will never be competitive.

>> easy to change keyboard
>
> They are all easily changed. They plug in using PS/2 or USB.

I meant the native keyboard, not an extra one :-)

>
>> NO backlit nothing
>
> When reading the candidates of keyboards you like per the above
> criteria, they'll note if the keys are lit. To them, that's a selling
> feature for which they can charge more.
>
>> NO slim-slim, special-tools, eyecandy
>
> Don't know what is "slim-slim". Is the size of the case? If so, you'll
> want a medium tower case, or even a tall tower which should have more
> drive bays (some only internally accessed) to allow for future
> expansion.

A laptop being thin means nothing to me other
than difficulty in repair or expansion, a
need for special tools doesn't either and I
put all such 'features' in tyhje eye-candy
bin, 'selling features' in your words :-)

The Panasonic partial-ruggeds seem tempting
except for the fact that the monitor edge
is like an inch in from the lid edge. One of
the goofs I made with the g73 was not thinking
that a 17" is waaaaaay to big to take on an
airplane. So the next one will be 12-13" only
but I want that to be almost all monitor
and hardly less capable than my destop AMD
deathstar.

>> dual ssd bays for easy removal
>
> Do you mean bays, as in openings in the front bezel to allow you to use
> removable drive hardware? Bays are openings in the front bezel. Not
> much point in exposing the SSDs to the outside since there's nothing to
> see on them. Bays are usually used for removable media, so you can
> insert and eject media from the drive, like CD/BD optical drives,
> diskette drive (they still exist), Zip drives, or other removable media.
> Cages inside the case can have multiple drive slots. The top cage is
> usually sized to handle 5-1/4" drives while the bottom cage is for 3.5"
> drives. SSDs are 3.5" drives. You'll need 3.5"-to-5.25" adapters to
> put them into the top cage.

Talking laptops... external quick-insertion
ssd's are the future I hope but for now I was
just referring to my g73 with 2 inetrnal ssd
caddys, there are few laptops with more than 1.

>
>> 4 usb, 1 card, 1 hdmi, 1 eSata, etc. ports
>
> Look at the mobo for the number of USB ports on the backpanel. Also
> check if it has headers to let you connect to front USB ports in the
> front bezel, but the case will need to have the wire harness already
> attached to the front ports.
>
> "1 card" of WHAT?

sorry, meant card-reader

I meant i7 or the comparable performnance level
AMD or MAC cpu's

> Unless you're planning on iOS, why would you want an Apple CPU?

Been using 5 Linux distros but it looks like
one of them (Suse Leap) is gonna get axed so
I might try 4 Linux and 1 MAC. This could be
done on a MAC but I don't think that MAC-OS
is too installable (yet) on generic laptops.
Wife uses a MAC and I could help her out now
and then with 'issues' :-)

>> no nvidia drivers
>
> Then get an AMD video card. My recollection on nVidia is that it was,
> at one time, preferred to AMD, because nVidia has better support for
> Linux which seems where you are going with the OS although you didn't
> make mention of which OS you want.

I need an accelerated GPU but ONLY because
Google-Earth doesn't do too well with the
Nouveau drivers. Nvidia has lost me for good,
for half a dozen reasons.

>> reliable easy to change mini audio jacks
>
> Change them? You plan on pulling them out?

I plan on replacing them because the 1/8"
laptop jacks that I have seen ALL wear
out or bercome loose and intermittent, total
crap is the design itself and to top it
changing them on a laptop is a PITA. I
haven't seen one that's easily replacable
yet BUT I know some people who use replacable
pigtails that they plug-in and fasten only
once, then use the pigtail end jack for
whatever they wanna plug-in and such
adapters can even sport normal 1/4" jacks.

> Look for a mobo, or
> ancilliary software that comes with the mobo that lets you reassign the
> jacks to different functions.
>
>> 12"-13" screen 1920x1080 or 1920x1200
>
> Wow, that's a tiny monitor for that resolution. Are you building a
> totable PC? That could conflict with a desire for future expansion by
> having more storage slots in the cages to increase your storage
> capacity.
>
>> 12+ hour battery
>
> Just what are you trying to build? A smartphone or tablet?

A laptop...

> Ah, I did a Google Image search on "Asus g73". You have a laptop.
> You're trying to build a new laptop from scratch? Not likely, so buy a
> new laptop that matches on your list of features rather than worry about
> you trying to find hardware for a frankenjob laptop you build.
>
>> Nothing microsoft
>
> Just because Windows came pre-installed on the laptop does not preclude
> you from wiping the drive(s) to put whatever OS you want on them.
> Although few, there are some laptops that come with Linux.

I prefer them not charging for neither supplying
any OS unless it's a MAC but I don't really know
anything about them, my lasop apple was an Aple-II
in another life.

>> I'll think of a few others..
>
> Make up your criteria list, but you should really research what you can
> find rather than getting others to make suggestions that would either
> understimate what you should get, or overestimate to be safe giving you
> features you don't want or won't use. If you're going to build your
> laptop (don't know anyone that has despite being in the computer
> industry for decades), compile your list to then hunt around for the
> best match. If you're buying a pre-built laptop (the mostly likely
> scenario), go to the online sellers you trust with your criteria. Some
> let you walk through a checklist that will narrow your search there.

I've been looking for a day now and it seems like
I will never find what I want, the industry is
drifting in the opposite direction. For years I
thought mmy next one would be a Lenovo on account
of references from friends but as I just looked
up their lineup I saw that it too has been thinned
out no end. Some of the older but refurbished MAC's
Lenovos might give me _temporary_ reprieve though :-)

Thanks again for your time, appreciate it!

[Paul]

On 6/25/2022 9:19 AM, bad sector wrote:

> I've been looking for a day now and it seems like
> I will never find what I want, the industry is
> drifting in the opposite direction. For years I
> thought mmy next one would be a Lenovo on account
> of references from friends but as I just looked
> up their lineup I saw that it too has been thinned
> out no end. Some of the older but refurbished MAC's
> Lenovos might give me _temporary_ reprieve though :-)
>
> Thanks again for your time, appreciate it!

I don't think you can find the right kind of keyboard.

https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/cty/pdp/spd/alienware-m15-r7-gaming-laptop#configurations_section

The Alienware is going to be a good deal cheaper
and more up-to-date than one of these. At least some
of the Eurocom in the past, were Clevo ODM units.
You can tell from the LGA1151, that this particular model
is not "prime" Windows 11 material.

https://eurocom.com/ec/configure%282,452,0%29TornadoF7W

If you look at pictures of that one, you can see the
fan cooling scheme makes the hinge end of the
machine a bit thicker.

Asus has made some machines in the past, with a thicker
hinge area because of the cooling requirement. But you've
already had a taste of Asus.

The race to the bottom on keyboards is a done deal. Nobody
is going to dish out a keyboard area and use a longer travel.

Paul

[VanguardLH]

Since you mentioned "DIY" (Do It Yourself) in your starter post, I
figured you were going to do the build, not buy a pre-built, so it seems
you were going to building a desktop. I haven't seen anyone selling
parts for a DIY build of a laptop. I've only seen folks selling off
broken laptops for parts. Yes, you can find some repair parts, like
mobos and key panels, backpanel LEDs for the monitor, etc, but not
entire build-it-yourself kits to build a laptop from scratch.
Especially when you mentioned drive bays led me to believe your DIY
build was for a desktop where the system case would have cages to hold
multiple drives with one cage at the top where the front bezel has
openings to access the drives and the bottom cage is for drives to which
you don't need external access. Maybe there are laptops with multiple
drive compartments, but I haven't seen any. Just the ones where there
is only 1 drive compartment. Laptops are small and thin, so they aren't
designed to contain the bulk of multiple drives. You get one
compartment for a storage drive, and maybe another with external access
for an optical drive.

I didn't realize the DIY build was to create a laptop from scratch.
Seems you're really looking for a pre-built laptop that matches your
features list. For pre-builts, you're stuck researching the sites or
stores where you trust buying the products, and then see what they offer
for sale. Some sites are easier than others in that they give you
filters to narrow down the match list. Sorry, I can't suggest where to
find a "laptop" that has multiple bays for storage drives. There are
USB-attached drive stacks you can buy to add more capacity to the
laptop, or to any computer with USB ports.

[bad sector]

On 6/25/22 11:59, VanguardLH wrote:

> I didn't realize the DIY build was to create a laptop from scratch.
> Seems you're really looking for a pre-built laptop that matches your
> features list. For pre-builts, you're stuck researching the sites or
> stores where you trust buying the products, and then see what they offer
> for sale. Some sites are easier than others in that they give you
> filters to narrow down the match list. Sorry, I can't suggest where to
> find a "laptop" that has multiple bays for storage drives. There are
> USB-attached drive stacks you can buy to add more capacity to the
> laptop, or to any computer with USB ports.

Not necessarily a DIY build but as I look at
the Panasonics for example there are several
areas where you can 'install' i.e. insert and
connect peripherals. That's more DIY than the
run of the mill crapware. My g73 has 2 drive
bays but I could inrease to 3 by usiong one
of the DVD-replacement units. I can live with
a single drive but 2 is better and having to
externally attach a usb-one is really not that
practical ..just wiped a 250gb ssd on a usb
adapter to sell with my salvage-g73, it took
all morning :-)

[bad sector]

On 6/25/22 10:04, Paul wrote:
> On 6/25/2022 9:19 AM, bad sector wrote:
>
>> I've been looking for a day now and it seems like
>> I will never find what I want, the industry is
>> drifting in the opposite direction. For years I
>> thought mmy next one would be a Lenovo on account
>> of references from friends but as I just looked
>> up their lineup I saw that it too has been thinned
>> out no end. Some of the older but refurbished MAC's
>> Lenovos might give me _temporary_ reprieve though :-)
>>
>> Thanks again for your time, appreciate it!
>
> I don't think you can find the right kind of keyboard.

I think you're right. For years I was waiting for
the Asus to crap out and then go buy me a Lenovo
because people were impressed with their keyboards.
Just checked-in on their lineup, it's done for too.

> https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/cty/pdp/spd/alienware-m15-r7-gaming-laptop#configurations_section
>
> The Alienware is going to be a good deal cheaper
> and more up-to-date than one of these. At least some
> of the Eurocom in the past, were Clevo ODM units.
> You can tell from the LGA1151, that this particular model
> is not "prime" Windows 11 material.
>
> https://eurocom.com/ec/configure%282,452,0%29TornadoF7W

it does look a little more than just a 'surface' :-)

> If you look at pictures of that one, you can see the
> fan cooling scheme makes the hinge end of the
> machine a bit thicker.
>
> Asus has made some machines in the past, with a thicker
> hinge area because of the cooling requirement. But you've
> already had a taste of Asus.

I live on the coast so cooling is seldom an issue,
the g73 was actually a good machine performancewise,
what I didn't/don't like is the 17" size and that
really is only my fault for not having tried it
first, the all-black, the flimsy (BUT BACKLIT!)
keyboard, and the battery life so short that I
never replaced the origional one when it went.

> The race to the bottom on keyboards is a done deal. Nobody
> is going to dish out a keyboard area and use a longer travel.

Not only that, but the desktop itself could be headed
for oblivion; it's a new world we live in


--
https://i.imgur.com/b6voLxD.png

[VanguardLH]

https://icecat.biz/en/p/asus/g73jh-tz006v/rog-notebooks-g73jh-tz006v-5965630.html

Shows 2 HDDs inside. Interesting. 8.5 pounds for weight (probably with
just one HDD, more for the 2nd HDD), so "netbook" to describe the unit
seems a big stretch, especially after looking at the dimensions. I
remember when the Osborne 1 (24 pounds) was considered a portable PC
just because it had a handle, like military thinking where I've seen a
2-ton generator with a handle that was labelled "portable". Lugging the
G73 around a lot probably lengthens your arm. Could be one of those
portables that never went anywhere, like most mobile homes.

I would think for a new "DIY build" using pre-builts as baseline, you'd
want faster drives, like NVMe SSDs, that slide into an m.2 slot on the
motherboard. Alas, with everything getting much smaller and lighter
over time to make laptops, and especially notebooks, more portable, I
suspect they've gone to SSDs, some to NVMe SSDs, but a 2- or 3-slot mobo
to handle multiple NVMes doesn't sound mainstream. the Alienware m15 R3
($1700 at Amazon) has 3 m.2 slots for NVMe drives, and a 2.5" SATA drive
compartment; however, as often the case, sometimes using an m.2 slot
will disable the use of a SATA port. Just because the hardware looks
usable doesn't mean the firmware handles it. You have to read the
manual to ensure the SATA port for the SSD drive doesn't get disabled
when you use either of the m.2 slots for NVMe SSDs. That model uses
nVidia for GPU, so disqualified per your specs.

I'm finding it hard to find a laptop with an Intel i7 CPU that does NOT
have nVidia video (i.e., to get the AMD video you specified). Often the
only other choice is Intel UHD, and that may not have the performance
you want.

Personally I would find a non-black case (e.g., white, blue, pink) to be
distracting seeing it surround the monitor. Even silver would be a
distraction: I'd be seeing the case's color all the time I'm using the
laptop while black is easily ignored. However, I tend to use black
backgrounds, and dark themes, so my eyes don't get fatigued with a
flashlight aimed at them all the time.

I selected as many of your specs as newegg.com could match (no filter on
multiple SSD/HDD), and got 0 (zero) results even when trying their
advanced search filters (and LOTS of checkmarks to select your spec, or
high). Somebody might have exactly what you specified, or nobody does
and your specs are a pipe dream. Seems you want in a laptop format what
can be got in a desktop build.

[bad sector]

I took it to the hospital a couple of times for post-surgery.
Gotta remember though that in the day the laptop makers
thought they were going to replace the desktops with them.
Thank gaaaaaaaaaaaaawd THAT never went any further!

> I would think for a new "DIY build" using pre-builts as baseline, you'd
> want faster drives, like NVMe SSDs, that slide into an m.2 slot on the
> motherboard. Alas, with everything getting much smaller and lighter
> over time to make laptops, and especially notebooks, more portable, I
> suspect they've gone to SSDs, some to NVMe SSDs, but a 2- or 3-slot mobo
> to handle multiple NVMes doesn't sound mainstream. the Alienware m15 R3
> ($1700 at Amazon) has 3 m.2 slots for NVMe drives, and a 2.5" SATA drive
> compartment; however, as often the case, sometimes using an m.2 slot
> will disable the use of a SATA port. Just because the hardware looks
> usable doesn't mean the firmware handles it. You have to read the
> manual to ensure the SATA port for the SSD drive doesn't get disabled
> when you use either of the m.2 slots for NVMe SSDs. That model uses
> nVidia for GPU, so disqualified per your specs.

I use different themes/backgrounds, I might just create
a panel icon to swing bright-sunny/daylight/night themes
with a click

https://i.imgur.com/zcanGBh.png
https://i.imgur.com/kvN9DNF.png
https://i.imgur.com/Mjrw9Wm.png
https://i.imgur.com/DCRogWF.png

Both m.2 and NVMe are news to me. Generally to the extent
possible I prefer externally plugged-in drives and wifi
be it on a desktop or laptop. So internal wifi cards get
physically disabled on the first day and I use usb tranceivers
instead, they cannot be software controlled when they aren't
plugged-in :-)

> I'm finding it hard to find a laptop with an Intel i7 CPU that does NOT
> have nVidia video (i.e., to get the AMD video you specified). Often the
> only other choice is Intel UHD, and that may not have the performance
> you want.

I just need Google-Earth, absolutely no need for video
performance beyond its requirements. I wisjh they just
made it work without acceleration! Good resolution is
ok ...for working with Gimp.

>
> Personally I would find a non-black case (e.g., white, blue, pink) to be
> distracting seeing it surround the monitor. Even silver would be a
> distraction: I'd be seeing the case's color all the time I'm using the
> laptop while black is easily ignored. However, I tend to use black
> backgrounds, and dark themes, so my eyes don't get fatigued with a
> flashlight aimed at them all the time.

About the least eye-stressing backgrounds, ahemmm, I
HATE to say this, but *Bill Gates WAS (almost) right*
on the money with his windows-green :-)

Boeing/Douglas have always used assorted dark dash
panel colors that did not make the instruments stand
out (very bad idea):

https://www.baatraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Boeing-737-MAX-full-flight-simulator.jpg

Tupolev spent a LOT of effort to come up with what
THEY insisted was the best:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/c7/e7/ddc7e797e50dfab4a9660bc585c6dd5a.jpg

the lighting sometimes makes them look more 'inkish':

https://ctl.s6img.com/society6/img/9tlWo27iuyU3BX6F0X7xdeBcopo/w_1500/bags/medium/close/~artwork,fw_3500,fh_3500,fx_-879,iw_5258,ih_3500/s6-original-art-uploads/society6/uploads/misc/3f57e92bbb8641479236eb1f04e5f6dd/~~/tupolev-tu-154-cockpit-bags.jpg

They were right (before Billy even) and now the
american makers are sliding over to much lighter
beige-like colors as well:

https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/603831/files/10668254/890x820x2/aviation-training-graphics-cockpit-training-poster.jpg

In research labs Tupolev's is being slightly passed
by shades just a touch closer to very light John-Deere
green.. no rocket science, ever since humans have
slithered out of the oceans the human eye will tire
of sea blue before grass green.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/05/10/PDEM/6b3dc539-e6d4-4ed4-bf90-08149e06db5a-280162524_7477863915588659_4375377387365353225_n.jpg?crop=1637,921,x0,y921&width=1600&height=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp

> I selected as many of your specs as newegg.com could match (no filter on
> multiple SSD/HDD), and got 0 (zero) results even when trying their
> advanced search filters (and LOTS of checkmarks to select your spec, or
> high). Somebody might have exactly what you specified, or nobody does
> and your specs are a pipe dream. Seems you want in a laptop format what
> can be got in a desktop build.

I was in my twenties when I once entered a shoe store
in the days when them very pointed shoes were the fad.
After a minute I told the guy that seeing that I could
not change the shape of my foot what I really wanted
was a shoe that looks like "it". That was a paradigm-forming
moment for me. I couldn't care less where manufacturers
want to steer the market, if I don't find what "I" want
I don't buy. Life is simple when you want it to be simple :-)

Speaking of which, it's now 3 days with no laptop, I
don't miss it on bit and I might just not replace it at all.


--
If DIY were a religion, hmmm ...I just made it one.

[VanguardLH]

bad sector wrote:

> About the least eye-stressing backgrounds, ahemmm, I HATE to say this,
> but *Bill Gates WAS (almost) right* on the money with his
> windows-green :-)

Don't think that was his choice, just the only available phosphor color
for a monochrome CRT. When amber phosphor came out, oooh, it was so
much easier to read. Just don't turn up the brightness too high on
either, or there's be a lot of blooming. Green has a burn-in problem.
Amber could be turned up on brightness without burn-in. Man, I'm old.

Bill sold Seattle DOS to IBM as MS-DOS, and used existing parts to build
a PC. There were computers before the Age of Gates.

> Tupolev spent a LOT of effort to come up with what
> THEY insisted was the best:
>
> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/c7/e7/ddc7e797e50dfab4a9660bc585c6dd5a.jpg

That teal colored panel is very distracting, and why a non-black laptop
case would be, too. Your Boing pic makes the console better disappear
with its dark gray color. I prefer black, but not glossy black (I don't
want to see reflections).

> the lighting sometimes makes them look more 'inkish':
>
> https://ctl.s6img.com/society6/img/9tlWo27iuyU3BX6F0X7xdeBcopo/w_1500/bags/medium/close/~artwork,fw_3500,fh_3500,fx_-879,iw_5258,ih_3500/s6-original-art-uploads/society6/uploads/misc/3f57e92bbb8641479236eb1f04e5f6dd/~~/tupolev-tu-154-cockpit-bags.jpg

Maybe a color-blind person chose the panel color.

> They were right (before Billy even) and now the
> american makers are sliding over to much lighter
> beige-like colors as well:
>
> https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/603831/files/10668254/890x820x2/aviation-training-graphics-cockpit-training-poster.jpg

Or to differentiate themself from a competitor, or maximize visibility
of printing on the panel in low-light.

> In research labs Tupolev's is being slightly passed
> by shades just a touch closer to very light John-Deere
> green.. no rocket science, ever since humans have
> slithered out of the oceans the human eye will tire
> of sea blue before grass green.
>
> https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/05/10/PDEM/6b3dc539-e6d4-4ed4-bf90-08149e06db5a-280162524_7477863915588659_4375377387365353225_n.jpg?crop=1637,921,x0,y921&width=1600&height=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp

Humans (not primordials) have 10 times as many green receptors than red.
That's why I use a green laser sight on my home defense handguns. Red
disappears faster in daylight than green. Both are equal in low-light
or dark, like when an intruder breaks into your home at night. Green
LEDs consume more power than red LEDs, and why red laser sights are
cheaper than green laser sights (but recent LED development has lowered
the power consumption of green to be comparable to red).

>> I selected as many of your specs as newegg.com could match (no filter on
>> multiple SSD/HDD), and got 0 (zero) results even when trying their
>> advanced search filters (and LOTS of checkmarks to select your spec, or
>> high). Somebody might have exactly what you specified, or nobody does
>> and your specs are a pipe dream. Seems you want in a laptop format what
>> can be got in a desktop build.
>
> I was in my twenties when I once entered a shoe store
> in the days when them very pointed shoes were the fad.

A long time ago, there were no left and right shoes. A shoe fit on
either foot. Wasn't until 1818 when someone in Philadelphia realized
the outside arch of the foot is different from left to right, and
created left and right side shoes.

> Speaking of which, it's now 3 days with no laptop, I don't miss it on
> bit and I might just not replace it at all.

Keep it. Mine was a savior when my desktop got fried by a lightning
strike to the house (which took out a lot of other stuff). Took a
couple weeks to find, order, ship, and build a new desktop. However, I
couldn't stand the keyboard, touchpad, and monitor on the laptop, so I
used my then-unusable desktop keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Kept me
working until my sole desktop got replaced. This was before the age of
smartphones and tablets of which I have a each.

[bad sector]

On 6/26/22 21:33, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>
>> About the least eye-stressing backgrounds, ahemmm, I HATE to say this,
>> but *Bill Gates WAS (almost) right* on the money with his
>> windows-green :-)
>
> Don't think that was his choice, just the only available phosphor color
> for a monochrome CRT. When amber phosphor came out, oooh, it was so
> much easier to read. Just don't turn up the brightness too high on
> either, or there's be a lot of blooming. Green has a burn-in problem.
> Amber could be turned up on brightness without burn-in. Man, I'm old.

Windows 95 came on color computers, forget what my Amiga had
but it wasn't green.

> Bill sold Seattle DOS to IBM as MS-DOS, and used existing parts to build
> a PC. There were computers before the Age of Gates.

My first 3 were a Vic20, then a C64 and then Apple-II.

>> Tupolev spent a LOT of effort to come up with what
>> THEY insisted was the best:
>>
>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/c7/e7/ddc7e797e50dfab4a9660bc585c6dd5a.jpg
>
> That teal colored panel is very distracting, and why a non-black laptop
> case would be, too. Your Boing pic makes the console better disappear
> with its dark gray color.

The laptop monitors have so little border now that
even I wouldn't notice it being black, what I'm talking
about is a laptop or desktop keyboard and its immediate
surroundings. I've got no use for backlit stuff seeing
that I'm never in that level of dark environment. The
linked greenish panel colors would be equivalent computer
backgrounds or wallpapers. For MY eyes grass green IS
the least tiring of all.

>> the lighting sometimes makes them look more 'inkish':
>>
>> https://ctl.s6img.com/society6/img/9tlWo27iuyU3BX6F0X7xdeBcopo/w_1500/bags/medium/close/~artwork,fw_3500,fh_3500,fx_-879,iw_5258,ih_3500/s6-original-art-uploads/society6/uploads/misc/3f57e92bbb8641479236eb1f04e5f6dd/~~/tupolev-tu-154-cockpit-bags.jpg
>
> Maybe a color-blind person chose the panel color.
>
>> They were right (before Billy even) and now the
>> american makers are sliding over to much lighter
>> beige-like colors as well:
>>
>> https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/603831/files/10668254/890x820x2/aviation-training-graphics-cockpit-training-poster.jpg
>
> Or to differentiate themself from a competitor, or maximize visibility
> of printing on the panel in low-light.

No, the actual airplane panel colors have been made
much lighter because they couldn't fight scientific
evidence anymore. As you notice most gauges have black
backgrounds so having them on a dark panel makes it
much harder to identify and locate any one of them.
This alone calls for a light background, the argument
then narrows down to which color light and that's where
eye fatigue comes in favoring greens.

>> I was in my twenties when I once entered a shoe store
>> in the days when them very pointed shoes were the fad.
>
> A long time ago, there were no left and right shoes. A shoe fit on
> either foot. Wasn't until 1818 when someone in Philadelphia realized
> the outside arch of the foot is different from left to right, and
> created left and right side shoes.

Hehe, reminds me of a WW-I military truck the local
blacksmith had to do some repairs on. He pointed
out to me the tire tread, it's exactly symmetrical
so trackers couldn't tel which way it was going :-)

[VanguardLH]

bad sector wrote:

> I've got no use for backlit stuff seeing that I'm never in that level
> of dark environment.

I've not had a laptop or netbook with backlit keys. That's a popular
thing now that is prevalent in new[er] pre-builts? Just more fluff they
can add to maintain pricing. When the VCRs saturated the market (those
that didn't have one weren't going to buy one, and those that had one
weren't buying another until replacing the current one which is a
trickle market), they started adding tons of features. The basics
didn't change, just the added fluff.

For laptops with backlit keys, the backlighting can't be disabled? The
mobo for my latest desktop PC build had lots of fluff lighting. I
didn't need a pulsating glow-in-the-dark PC. In fact, I play some
stealth games in the dark, and that LED lighting would make it overly
lit in the room. There was an option in the UEFI to disable the LED
lighting (they had a fancy word for that fluff). I had a wired Logitech
mouse that was lit when powered. More lighting fluff. No switch on the
mouse to turn it off. I had to download Logitech's ancilliary software
which could program the mouse, like turn off the lighting.

As an example, I looked at the manual for ASUS ZenBook Duo 14 UX482, and
it has an Fn+F7 combo key for keyboard backlight brightness level. I
suspect the brightness can be adjusted from off to full.

I'd be pissed if I ended up with a build where I could not disable all
the lighting fluff. If the mobo's UEFI didn't have a setting, or there
wasn't some means to disable the lighting, I'd get out my nippers. Same
for the mouse and keyboard. I don't want my computer or peripherals
looking like they were designed for use in a nightclub.

> Hehe, reminds me of a WW-I military truck the local blacksmith had to
> do some repairs on. He pointed out to me the tire tread, it's exactly
> symmetrical so trackers couldn't tel which way it was going :-)

Tread? We ain't got no tread. We don't need no tread. I don't have to
show you any stinkin' tread.
(https://youtu.be/4OcM23Hbs5U?t=19)

[bad sector]

On 6/26/22 23:08, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>
>> I've got no use for backlit stuff seeing that I'm never in that level
>> of dark environment.
>
> I've not had a laptop or netbook with backlit keys. That's a popular
> thing now that is prevalent in new[er] pre-builts? Just more fluff they
> can add to maintain pricing. When the VCRs saturated the market (those
> that didn't have one weren't going to buy one, and those that had one
> weren't buying another until replacing the current one which is a
> trickle market), they started adding tons of features. The basics
> didn't change, just the added fluff.
>
> For laptops with backlit keys, the backlighting can't be disabled?

On the Asus G73 it could be disabled but the keycaps
are black and the lettering is thin translucent grey
for the lighting. Switch it off and you got one huge
fubar.

[David W. Hodgins]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 22:37:18 -0400, bad sector <forgetski@postit_invalid_.gov> wrote:
>> For laptops with backlit keys, the backlighting can't be disabled?
> On the Asus G73 it could be disabled but the keycaps
> are black and the lettering is thin translucent grey
> for the lighting. Switch it off and you got one huge
> fubar.

I have an asus tuf gaming a15. It's back lighting is controlled using Fn+cursor up
or Fn+cursor down. Using the Fn+cursor down reduces and then turns off the back
lighting.

The back lighting is under the keys which have normal white lettering on them.
I find the back lighting an annoying distraction, so leave it turned off. No
idea why anyone might actually want it.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

[bad sector]

Like VanguardLH said, freakin' useless eye candy!
I replaced mine with an all white UNLIT one the
first time it packed up.

Speakin of keyboards I treated my desktop to a gaming
DURGOD which is superb EXCEPT for one thing, it's nearly
impossibpe to hit BIOS setup by holding down the damm
'Del' key (mobo is Asus Crosshair-IV). I thought once
that the issue had been cleared by using either usb2
or usb3 (forget which) but it hadn't!

Note the reasonably sized not bold but black lettering:
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Durgod-Taurus-K320-TKL-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-87-Keys-Double-Shot-PBT-NKRO-USB-Type-C-Cherry-Brown-White/PRD167HZI551NR9


Note the idiotic minuscule AND grey lettering:

https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-gk-w0wc4-km360-h10na-usb-wired/p/N82E16823828021?item=N82E16823828021&source=region&nm_mc=knc-googleadwordsca-pc&cm_mmc=knc-googleadwordsca-pc-_-pla-_-gaming+keyboard-_-N82E16823828021&id1=12404347913&id2=121069163951&id3=&id4=&id5=pla-1039772924581&id6=&id7=9047856&id8=&id9=g&id10=c&id11=&id12=EAIaIQobChMImN3LpYnU-AIVNG1vBB17EQZNEAQYBSABEgKqhvD_BwE&id13=&id14=Y&id15=&id16=500433304073&id17=&id18=&id19=&id20=&id21=pla&id22=102503995&id23=online&id24=N82E16823828021&id25=CA&id26=1039772924581&id27=Y&id28=&id29=&id30=18093511684610302559&id31=en&id32=&id33=&id34=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImN3LpYnU-AIVNG1vBB17EQZNEAQYBSABEgKqhvD_BwE

[VanguardLH]

bad sector wrote:

> Speakin of keyboards I treated my desktop to a gaming
> DURGOD which is superb EXCEPT for one thing, it's nearly
> impossibpe to hit BIOS setup by holding down the damm
> 'Del' key (mobo is Asus Crosshair-IV).

Had to lookup "DURGOD". Okay, a brand/model of keyboard.

Did you disable Fast Startup in Windows? That makes it very difficult
to hit the hotkey after POST to get into the BIOS.

Is the keyboard connected to a USB port (uses polling), or to a PS/2
port (interrupt driven)? Gamers still like PS/2 keyboards for a couple
reasons. One, polling on USB can result in missing a poll, so the
keypress get delayed. Two, PS/2 keyboards support a larger N-rollover
(more keys can be concurrently pressed AND recognized).

[bad sector]

Haven't used windows since my tripple-booting days when IBM's boot-mangler would start Warp, Windows, or Linux for me. Now I'm into quinto-booting, five OS'es, ALL of them Linux :-)

The DURGOD has 'a weight' so it don't get knocked around every time a fly farts next to it. The mechanical keys remind me of the IBM clackers which could have been surpassed but never were. This thing is not bad, certainly is not too big, about half the footprint of a clacker. Yes, it's connected to a USB port, I was going to see if they made PS/2 but apparently even PS/2 circuits nowadays are just virtual as they get piped into the mobo's USB route in any event. My Asus Crosshair-V-Formula does have real PS/2 ports but it may have been among the last ones to sport them. I don't know, I'm no guru, it's what I heard not too long ago from one of the regulars here I believe.

My only problem with it is this Del-for-BIOS inability (1 out of 20 on everage makes it), I wish someone could tell me what's going on here (I'm keeping a $15 generic keyboard on stby just for BIOS setups).

[bad sector]

The attack has been managed; why not just forget
about laptops altogether? The old g73 is gone into
the recycling bin and I'm still alive. But my cell
phone died too so I tought I might buy be a smart
phone but I managed that attack as well. I haven't
had a cell phone for weeks and I'm still alive. So
maybe I'll just buy me a mig welder with which I
can do real things in the real world.