Looking for motherboard

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 15, 2013, 12:32:16 AM4/15/13

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My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.

It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX

I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.

Any references greatly received

PS. UK references

Flasherly

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Apr 15, 2013, 1:42:30 AM4/15/13

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On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:32:16 -0700 (PDT),
not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>
>PS. UK references

My kind'a guy - cheaper the better. Problem with those P4s is they're
old and pull-status gear. Nickel & dime or ha'pennies - three, six or
more years ago. Great if MBs were up to it. Rumage sales may be good
for mem. and associate ancillaries, although the MB is where you're
taking the biggest chances. Somebody will send you one, but it's a
much higher risk, craps, on substandard and failure-prone gear.

Thing is, going entry level on a newer dual core, quite likely to GPU
enabled, may be close enough to overweigh that cheap spot in chasing
down 6-yr-old gear. I'd could figuratively send you this, my P4 3Ghz
478 socket, as I've a 775 early dual core P4 underneath the table for
a replacement. Marginally faster than this single core P4. Doesn't
mean that much to me anymore (an AMD x2 4200, newer but also old but
any relative standard, blows both them away as a entertainment system,
across the room. When/if sold it'll be under $50US for this MB and
everything on it.) But, I got these MBs awhile back from good
sources, brands, and they're tough. Both are Gigabyte MBs, I believe.
Which simply isn't always going to be the case, especially factoring
in time as if to attempt to get reliable gear again now.

You usually won't beat Ebay. And, if that doesn't turn you on, go
back to your newer options. Anything cheap on the newest entry-priced
CPUs is going to outperform the P4 lineup. I'd pesonally rather have
security, though, in having researched mbs/cpus for something new,
where budget constraints are also viable, say, buying all the rest
used. Heatsinks, mem., cpus, and the rest of that crap doesn't break.
A good PS is all that's left.

Paul

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Apr 15, 2013, 1:49:51 AM4/15/13

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This is an example.

http://www.ascendtech.us/intel-g965-viiv-lga775-btx-motherboard_i_mb4intg965btx.aspx

But to use something like this, there's a whole checklist to go through.

I'll present a few items from my checklist.

The Ascendtech product, is missing the I/O plate. When you pull
the Dell (with the weird I/O connector collection), you put the
I/O metal plate from the new motherboard, in place of the I/O metal
plate of the Dell. I/O plates are supposed to snap out, for easy
replacement, and the I/O plate fills the gaps. I/O plates have
standard outer dimensions, and there are holes cut in the plate
which custom fit the connector configuration. The Ascendtech
is missing that plate (because the Ascendtech is a "board in a bag"
product, and not a regular retail motherboard). Intel bulk products,
ten to twenty motherboards come in a box, there is a separate
bag of I/O plates (one per motherboard), but lazy retailers
can't seem to mate motherboard with plate when selling a
board at a time. Intel bulk products are not like regular retail
motherboards, where each is in an individual box, comes with
spare cables and accessories. The "board in a bag", does come
with some accessories, but the lazy retailer can't be bothered
to "carve up" the box, and share the accessories over the
number of motherboards.

The Dell may have two PS/2 connectors. The Intel may assume the
usage of USB for the keyboard and the mouse. You can download
the PDF manual for the Intel motherboard, and Intel is pretty
thorough when listing the details. You'd want to check whether
the Intel has two, one, or zero PS/2 connectors.

The Dell likely has a high current, 1x5 fan connector. The Intel
motherboard has no such connector. The Intel has a four pin
connector, and the pin dimensions are different (the connectors
will not even be close to compatible). To "fake" the Dell
connector, you'll need the Dell fan pinout (I think it has two grounds
on it). You join RPM and PWM to the CPU fan header RPM and PWM.
You try to pick up +12V and GND from a Molex 1x4 from the power
supply. That prevents burning out the Intel fan header. The fan
should be under PWM control (a Dell, the fan would wail for the
first few seconds, until the firmware sets the fan speed on the
controller). On the new board, you can install a copy of Speedfan
from almico.com, to control the new motherboard fan speed (in
case the control structure is different than the Dell).

You'd check the outer dimensions of the board. Motherboard holes
are in standard positions. But there is some variation in board
dimensions, so you'd want to check for that. Some pre-built
computers, they don't even have a square board outline, and the
board can have "chunks" out of it (which makes it very hard to
match). Not a problem in this case. Just check the length and
width, in case the new board is too big.

Board swapping a non-Dell motherboard in, isn't entirely
a non-trivial exercise. I recommend finding a thread from
someone who has done it, rather than get a "best guess"
from a guy like me. I build computers from scratch, and
just don't have the experience Frankensteining old Dells.
Maybe Philo can help, if he is around.

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 23, 2013, 7:23:24 AM4/23/13

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Hi Paul,

When you build computers from scratch how do you determine which motherboard will match with which case?

I am taking the cards out of my tower in preparation for installing a motherboard. On removing the graphics card I see lots of horizointal black strips. Do you know what theses are for?

When unplugging connectors from the motherbard there was cable tie that goes into the case of the psu. I wont be dismantling the psu (not safe), but how can this tie be released from the psu?

I was also wondering about earthing to reduce static. Why does touching the case send static to earth. The disconnected tower is just a piece of metal, does the static simply dissipate aound the chassis?

Paul

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Apr 23, 2013, 5:30:45 PM4/23/13

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not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>
> Hi Paul,
>
> When you build computers from scratch how do you determine which motherboard
> will match with which case?

The categories are called "form factors". Exterior dimensions and
holes, are in standard places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_form_factor

I match a "Full ATX computer case" to a full ATX motherboard (12"x9.6").
The computer cases have names like "mid tower", but when you
read the product description, it'll name the form factors of
boards that will fit (full ATX, microATX).

With a form factor such as BTX, the exterior board dimensions are
different, the board layout is rotated 180 degrees with respect to ATX,
so they're quite different (and incompatible). BTX and ATX generally
don't mix.

Even when two products are BTX, I still need to examine them
for mechanical details, such as how the cooling is arranged.
Just because they have the same name, doesn't mean they're
"fit for use". You still have to use your brain. For example,
a Dell uses the same cooling fan for the CPU, to cool the computer
case. If they didn't do that, replacement selection would be
a lot easier. If you use a generic BTX, you have to check
whether it'll all work out or not.

>
> I am taking the cards out of my tower in preparation for installing a
> motherboard. On removing the graphics card I see lots of horizointal
> black strips. Do you know what theses are for?

You can post a picture to imageshack.us or some other image hosting
site, then we can take a look. Your description doesn't ring a bell
at the moment.

>
> When unplugging connectors from the motherbard there was cable tie
> that goes into the case of the psu. I wont be dismantling the psu
> (not safe), but how can this tie be released from the psu?

You cut cable ties with diagonal cutters. Scissors make a poor
substitute. Similarly, a hobby knife doesn't do a good job. But
diagonal cutters work well. One bite with these, and the nylon
is cut into two pieces. Any other cutting tool, will require
multiple attempts (hard on the fingers).

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/pict/330739879959_2.jpg

Make sure, when you cut the nylon tie, that no debris ends up inside
the power supply. Hold the cable tie, such that the body of the tie
doesn't end up inside the power supply. You do not want the power
supply fan to ingest a fragment.

If debris goes inside the supply, you can remove the four screws
holding the lid, and remove the item. One capacitor in there
(the largest one), can be charged to hundreds of volts. That
capacitor has a bleeder resistor on it. But never assume
the bleeder resistor is good, and the capacitor can still
have a charge.

In this diagram, C5 and C6 are dangerous. The bleeder R2
tames C5. The bleeder R3 tames C6. If you do the math,
1/2CV**2 for the caps, they store a *lot* of joules.
Shorting out the capacitor, you could lose an eardrum. Bang!

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

I'm really surprised a cable tie is looped through the
chassis of the power supply. That's not very smart. Are
you sure that isn't part of the supply itself ? Don't
cut something, unless you're sure it is meant to be cut
off and removed. (Cable ties are normally cut, during
maintenance. But the ties should be arranged in such a
way, so that the user knows which ones are intended for
removal, and which ones are structural and part of the
product. I keep bags of cable ties here, to re-do the
cabling later, and keep things neat and tidy. ATX power
supplies normally use "sleeving" to keep the wires neat
and tidy. You don't cut the sleeving.)

>
> I was also wondering about earthing to reduce static. Why does
> touching the case send static to earth. The disconnected tower is
> just a piece of metal, does the static simply dissipate aound the chassis?

OK, some concepts. You don't "drain" ESD, what you're doing,
is bringing two objects to the same electrostatic potential.

Computer case
|
|
+---- ESD_Strap -------- Human ------- holding_DIMM_in_hand

In my example, I use an ESD strap, clamped onto my wrist. That makes
the computer case, and me, the same potential. I pick up a DIMM with
my other hand. Now, the DIMM is at the same potential as the
computer case. When I go to insert the DIMM, the DIMM is at the same
voltage as the computer. And when I do that, no "spark" flows from the
DIMM to the computer. That's what ESD control is all about.

The DIMM comes in an antistatic package. When I touch the package
with my hand, the DIMM packaging comes to the same potential as me,
but slowly. The plastic contains a high impedance conductive material.
The charge equalization takes a second or two, through the conductive
packaging.

When I was younger, I used to wrap electronics in tin foils. Wrong!
Tin foil is *not* a good substitute for antistatic bags or trays.
The impedance of tin foil is way too low. When you go to touch
the tinfoil, a huge spark leaps over. With the antistatic bag,
the rush of current flow is limited, so you don't see a spark.
Damage to electronic components, is partially a "current density"
problem. That's why ESD packaging is high impedance, rather than
low impedance like tin foil.

So when you're handling the components, you bring the objects to
the same potential, before mating them. When putting a DIMM in
its antistatic bag, you touch the inside of the bag with your
finger first, so the bag is at the same potential as you,
then slide the DIMM inside. Think "equipotential" and all is well.

So the rules are:

1) No "hard paths" for electron flow. No tin foil for ESD control.
An ESD strap for example, should have a 1,000,000 ohm resistor
in series with the wire. That bleeds charge slowly, and
avoids a current density problem.
2) Bring objects to the same electrostatic potential before
joining them. If you do that, there are "no sparks".

Paul

Loren Pechtel

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Apr 23, 2013, 6:37:00 PM4/23/13

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On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 04:23:24 -0700 (PDT),
not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>When unplugging connectors from the motherbard there was cable tie that goes into the case of the psu. I wont be dismantling the psu (not safe), but how can this tie be released from the psu?

Cable ties normally are single use and are cut to remove them.

>I was also wondering about earthing to reduce static. Why does touching the case send static to earth. The disconnected tower is just a piece of metal, does the static simply dissipate aound the chassis?

It doesn't ground you *TO EARTH*. There's no need to be grounded *TO
EARTH*. What's important is that everything be at the same potential
so there's no current flow if you touch something.

Power company workers routinely work on wires charged to voltages far
beyond what you'll encounter with static. They make very sure to
ground to the wires before touching them (the equivalent of grounding
to the case, but they have to use a probe to do it because the spark
is hot enough to burn) and make very sure there's no path to earth. It
doesn't fry their equipment to work in such a field because
everything's at the same potential.

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 24, 2013, 10:47:11 AM4/24/13

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On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

The cable tie at the psu comes out of a hole in the housing (I think the psu is providing a fixing point) and secures cables to the side of the psu. It is a cable tie. But the piece inside the psu may be meant to force through to the outside - not sure.

I was thinking about the cpu cooling. There is a large device that rests on top of the cpu coverplate. How does this stacked grid cooler work, does the fan force air down, or remove hot air up? It is quite a large device a plate meets the cpu coverplate.

I can't post images no camera.

How can I identify the BIOS on the motherboard?

Having removed the motherboard, I can't see anything wrong. All the capacitors look fine - no tops bursting, no bulging, no spillage or staining. I suppose the fault is internal!

There is a series of aluminium plates on the board, I wonder what these do.

Thank you for the very detailed replies.

Best wishes

Flasherly

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Apr 24, 2013, 1:12:39 PM4/24/13

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On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:47:11 -0700 (PDT),
not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

A power supply is for modular: Screws into the case and plugs into
the MB or a high-end videocard. Does anything else it's up to no
good. (DELL believes the opposite, that Americans up to no good are
Americans that buy power supplies other than PS units DELL supplies
Americans. Hence the theory holds true while for white-skinned,
Occidental-eyed PS units only.)

CPU fans have instructions and come in boxes from a manufacturer,
along with good information for selling them on the manufacturer web
site.

The ID of the BIOS is on monitor.

Since a maintained PC's MB always look pretty, pretty is either not
salient to a dead, or working, MB;- as is every individual thing
working that becomes beatific functionality of the PC endowment.

Aluminum is a heat conductor. They stick a slab of alum on anything
needed to help transfer its heat into air flowing within and through
the case.

Paul

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Apr 24, 2013, 5:19:42 PM4/24/13

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not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>
> The cable tie at the psu comes out of a hole in the housing (I
> think the psu is providing a fixing point) and secures cables to
> the side of the psu. It is a cable tie. But the piece inside the
> psu may be meant to force through to the outside - not sure.

As long as any remnant pieces don't get into the fan, it's OK.
Use your best judgment as to what to do.

>
> I was thinking about the cpu cooling. There is a large device
> that rests on top of the cpu coverplate. How does this stacked
> grid cooler work, does the fan force air down, or remove hot air
> up? It is quite a large device a plate meets the cpu coverplate.

Heat removal is via transfer into the airstream. Imagine how
a forced air stream moves through there, with best efficiency.
Then look for a fan that aligns in that plane of operation.

Convection cooling (no fan present), is limited to relatively
low power devices. Desktop CPUs don't generally fit that
description. Maybe someday soon, they will return to convection.
(Intel's next processor is getting close.)

>
> I can't post images no camera.
>
> How can I identify the BIOS on the motherboard?

If the motherboard is not operating, check for a paper label on the
top of the BIOS chip, which may indicate a version.

If the motherboard is working, a "BIOS string" appears on the very
first POST screen. You press the "Pause" key on the keyboard, to
make that screen stand still long enough, to write it down. For example,
I use the "Pause" key on my laptop keyboard, because the screen
flashes by so quickly, I can't otherwise read it.

>
> Having removed the motherboard, I can't see anything wrong. All
> the capacitors look fine - no tops bursting, no bulging, no
> spillage or staining. I suppose the fault is internal!

That is very possible. For example, if a MOSFET fails short,
there might not be any visible symptoms. Nothing else would burn,
as long as the fault detection on the regulator works well. Sometimes,
one failed component, causes another to burn, and that's how you
figure it out. On a regulator, you can even burn one of those
toriodal shaped things, to the point it turns to powder.

>
> There is a series of aluminium plates on the board, I wonder
> what these do.

Those are chipset heatsinks. If a chip dissipates 2W or less, no
heatsink is required. Some chipsets are in the 15W-25W range, where
serious cooling is required. Some of the earliest chipsets
ran cool enough, they never needed heatsinks. There is a wide
variation in power ratings and cooling requirements. Things like
adding PCI Express I/O or high speed memory busses to the
Northbridge, that's what turned the Northbridge into a hothouse.

This is an example of a fancy aftermarket chipset cooler.
The longer fins than yours, only help a bit.

http://geizhals.at/p/150414.jpg

>
> Thank you for the very detailed replies.
>
> Best wishes

HTH,
Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 25, 2013, 12:31:38 AM4/25/13

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On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>

I see a number of chips on the motherbard. Is the large square black chip with Intel written on it the BIOS?

Paul

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Apr 25, 2013, 12:56:21 AM4/25/13

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In the picture here:

http://www.teleful.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/dell_dimension_e520.jpg

1) The aluminum heatsink hides the Northbridge
2) The large square with the gold diagonal on one
corner, is the Southbridge. That does your SATA ports.
3) The BIOS chip, should be near the Southbridge, from
an architectural perspective.

I don't see a traditional PLCC BIOS chip. I would have to
guess your board uses an 8 pin DIP serial EEPROM, which
is too small to hold a paper label. The chip could be
the one to the right of the Southbridge. Soldered down.

I'm not sure this is too important. Maybe a modern BIOS
file would be needed for a Core2 processor, but your
processor is probably consistent with the microcodes
released in the original motherboard release. Any
replacement WG864 would likely be a good candidate.
Unless you have info to the contrary ? Did you read
a warning somewhere, that there would be trouble ?

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 25, 2013, 8:02:29 AM4/25/13

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On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

That motherboard picture is correct - spot on.

What does the Southbridge chip do?

The heatsink does not appear to be removeable, It has a couple of spring clips, but when I push one down the sink does not move?

I see the little chip to the right (EEPRM). However, there is a much larger chip just above and a little to the right of the Southbridge. Do you what this chip does - just below the USB ports?

At the top of the board close to the USB ports, at the bottom and to the right, at the bottom of that long white label there are two prongs. One has a fawn coloured plastic cover. What does that do?

A few other things that occur to me on my exploration.

This board is a BTX board. Is a BTX board any square board, or must it be 260mm (my measurement)?

Th chipset is I believe G965.
If the chipset represents the electronics on a system board. Does this mean that any board labelled G965 must use the same electronics and bo of the same geometrical configuration, ie, the boards must be identical in every way?

People talk a lot about the damage that static can do. But are not the components covered in a varnish that protects against static?

I note the many colours of wiring in the case. What do the colour codes mean.

Thanks

Paul

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Apr 25, 2013, 9:05:39 AM4/25/13

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not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>
> That motherboard picture is correct - spot on.
>
> What does the Southbridge chip do?

This is a sampling of things the chips do. Southbridge
is noteworthy for the SATA or IDE ports. Those are the
things people remember. The I/O rates are from highest
to lowest. The CPU does things the fastest (bandwidths
of many gigabytes/sec). At the bottom, the SuperIO does
things like serial ports at 9600 baud. So they're kind
of arranged in I/O rate order. The very slowest interfaces
go on the SuperIO. Architecturally, Intel has been working
at eliminating the SuperIO, by deprecating the interfaces
on it. That's why PS/2, floppy drive, and serial ports,
got "bumped off". There's really nothing wrong with PS/2
as far as I'm concerned. I find I never have a problem
with it, whereas USB has the occasional glitch. PS/2
is damn near bulletproof (just not hot-plug compatible).
I don't think I've ever had a problem with PS/2 here,
in my computer room.

CPU
|
RAM -- Northbridge --- PCI Express x16
|
Southbridge --- PCI bus ---- Ethernet
| --- SATA, IDE
| --- USB2
SuperIO ------- PS/2
------- Serial Ports
------- Voltage monitor
------- Floppy drive

> The heatsink does not appear to be removeable, It has a couple of spring
> clips, but when I push one down the sink does not move?

The hook and clip scheme, normally leaves that heatsink
"floating" a bit. But, if the manufacturer fits double
sided thermal tape underneath, that may be a secondary
mechanism to prevent if from moving. If disassembling it,
you'd have to be very careful to not damage it.

If a thermal paste is used instead, it functions as a lubricant
and then the heatsink moves freely.

A weakness of that generation of fastener, was the U-shaped
thing that solders into the motherboard, the solder does
not grip the metal very well. The U-shaped thing can pull
out of the motherboard. This is caused by the wrong metal
being used for the U-shaped thing. It should have been
tin/lead over copper, rather than being something resembling
stainless steel.

Later generations use nylon "push-pins", rather than the clip.
So the clip idea is no longer popular. I have never seen a
public admission by anyone involves with that stuff, that
their choice of metals was poor. They probably believe, to
this day, they did a good job :-(

>
> I see the little chip to the right (EEPRM). However, there is a much larger
> chip just above and a little to the right of the Southbridge. Do you what
> this chip does - just below the USB ports?

By reading the numbers off the chip, and Googling them,
sometimes you can get a hint. I frequently can't get pictures
which show the codes on the chip. And guessing based on shape,
is pretty dangerous. I have a rough idea (like that chipset
diagram above), what some of the components needed would be.
But I won't be able to successfully identify everything,
at this distance.

The one above and to the right, could be an Ethernet controller.
But the chip shape is pretty weird. Lots of Ethernet chips, use
smaller, more modern packages than that (BGA).

Notice there is a chip similar in form, near the hook on the
PCI Express x16 port, and that one could be a Clock Generator.
It generates digital clocks, that determine the precise rates
that lots of the hardware runs at. When you overclock, that
involves programming registers inside a chip like that.

>
> At the top of the board close to the USB ports, at the bottom and to the
> right, at the bottom of that long white label there are two prongs. One
> has a fawn coloured plastic cover. What does that do?

That could be the "Clear CMOS" jumper. It resets BIOS settings,
or perhaps it can also clear the BIOS password, if you're locked out.
Read the manual, before using it. Generally speaking, the power
should be disconnected, before you use it. The instructions
in the user manual, are supposed to warn you about that thing.

>
> A few other things that occur to me on my exploration.
>
> This board is a BTX board. Is a BTX board any square board, or must it be
> 260mm (my measurement)?

No, there are multiple motherboard standards, with a roughly square
shape to them. They're not all BTX.

BTX arranges the components in a particular pattern. Intel
offers a specification, which shows what the design principles are,
so you can do your own layouts. The design intent might have been
for the purpose of improving thermal performance. I don't think
BTX was too popular with hobbyists who build their own machines.
And the need for improved thermal performance, has been
gradually dropping. At one time, Intel was "gearing up" for
hot hot hardware, and that never happened. The Prescott processor
was a wakeup call for Intel, that they had to go back to the
lab, and design improved silicon and processes, and the
thermal madness had to stop. The stuff was just getting too hot.

The change from S478 socket, to LGA775, mainly added power and
ground pins to the socket. That was intended to beef up the
maximum amount of power the CPU could draw. They were preparing
for trouble, but at the same time, their fab staff were sent off
to work on improving things. And they're *still* working on that,
improving a bit every year. This year, it's FinFETs to the rescue
for example. (The processors coming summer of this year, will run
a lot cooler, and have smaller coolers fitted to the top.)

>
> Th chipset is I believe G965.
> If the chipset represents the electronics on a system board. Does this
> mean that any board labelled G965 must use the same electronics and bo of
> the same geometrical configuration, ie, the boards must be identical in
> every way?

No. G965 identifies the chipset. It doesn't say anything about
any other detail. I could mount the chips in a soup can if I want.
Just because you buy another G965, doesn't make all possible
problems go away. G965 chipsets could be used on either ATX or
BTX form factor motherboards.

Another G965 board though, will allow the existing drivers
installed in your OS to work. But there could still be differences,
like, a different Ethernet chip on your new board. Just because
the board is G965, doesn't mean the Ethernet NIC chip is fixed,
and they could use RealTek, Marvell, or even Intel for it. And
a different driver needed for each. So while another G965 board
would likely start to boot, you might see the "new hardware wizard"
pop up when new and different chips are detected.

>
> People talk a lot about the damage that static can do. But are not the
> components covered in a varnish that protects against static?

Electrostatic protection is a compromise. Some materials, if
applied to a chip, not only do they suppress static electricity,
they also distort the electrical signals (the ones we want to keep).
So there are limits as to which techniques are compatible with
high speed signaling. A varnish coating could add a fraction of
a picofarad of capacitive coupling to a signal.

I worked with a guy, who used to investigate some of those
techniques. He used to get samples of the latest whizzy
gadgets for controlling static. And generally he was unimpressed
with most of them (they caused too much distortion, and he would
use various instruments to see how bad they were). You'd see some
of them introduced, and they'd promptly disappear from the market.
I never wasted time doing such work on the side myself. He was
just better at finding these things than I was. I relied on the
protection inside the chip, for that.

>
> I note the many colours of wiring in the case. What do the colour codes mean.
>
> Thanks

Well, black is ground :-) The ATX supplies tend to use standard
colors, as specific in the ATX supply spec. So some of the colors
are relatively standard now. This link will help you answer some
of your questions.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

HTH,
Paul

Flasherly

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Apr 25, 2013, 9:33:20 AM4/25/13

to

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 05:02:29 -0700 (PDT),
not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>

In Intel chipset systems, the southbridge is named Input/Output
Controller Hub (ICH). AMD, beginning with its Fusion APUs, has given
the label FCH, or Fusion Controller Hub, to its southbridge.

The southbridge can usually be distinguished from the northbridge by
not being directly connected to the CPU. Rather, the northbridge ties
the southbridge to the CPU. Through the use of controller integrated
channel circuitry, the northbridge can directly link signals from the
I/O units to the CPU for data control and access.

A heatsink isn't made that's not removeable. How removeable is a
separate function bearing no coincidence within such attempts as
involve broken CPUs, the surrounding shrouding, or the MB proper.

Compatibility with ATX products

In the first months of production the ATX and BTX motherboards were so
similar that moving a BTX motherboard to an ATX case was possible and
vice-versa, this was possible because the first BTX motherboards were
ATX motherboards turned upside down, except for the component location
that really were BTX positioning.[3]

Later the BTX form factor had a big change by turning it into a mirror
image of the ATX standard, since the new motherboard design, both
standards are incompatible. Basically BTX motherboards are
'leftside-right' compared to ATX and not upside-down as before, i.e.
they are mounted on the opposite side of the case. Some computer cases
such as the Cooler Master Series (Stackers) were released to support a
varying range of motherboard standards such as ATX, BTX, Mini-ATX and
so forth, to ease motherboard upgrade without buying a new case;
however, all connector and slot standards are identical, including
PCI(e) cards, processors, RAM, hard drives, etc.

BTX power supply units can be exchanged with newer ATX12V units, but
not with older ATX power supplies that don't have the extra 4-pin 12V
connector, which was introduced with the ATX12V standard.[4]
[edit] Reception

The BTX form factor has not been widely adopted despite its
improvements over ATX and related standards. As a result, the
availability and variety of BTX-compatible components is limited.

One reason for the failure of BTX to gain traction in key markets was
the rise of energy-efficient components (CPU's, chipsets and GPUs)
which require less power and produce less waste heat, eliminating two
of the primary intended benefits of BTX. Another reason was the lack
of OEM adopters.[5]

Initially, only Gateway and Dell offered computers with the new
format, later HP and Fujitsu-SIEMENS (now Fujitsu) also offered some
BTX-based computers. However, most other manufacturers stayed with the
ATX standard, and even the handful of manufacturers who did adopt BTX
for some products continued to produce the bulk of their machines with
the ATX form factor.

Color coded wires were conductive to Pavlovian pigeons used during
early Farmer in the Dell PS assembly procedures, before robotics
became an exact science. Banks of Farmer Dell psychologists were
first employed to establish a determination within standardized
connectors, which prevented humans from plugging into other than
approved fashions oriented for modular ends;- nonetheless, it did take
awhile for the engineers to iron out kinks with pigeon coding the
wires to the connectors. Veneer jobs arose due to further
complications with the static gnomes and distracted pigeons' natural
propensity for grubbing them up. As the taste of veneer repels
pigeons, it served both to hide gimps from humans, whilst preventing
droves of pigeons from repeatedly abandoning their station at
burgeoning assembly plants during misapprehensible lunch breaks, to
compromise order by chasing about wily gnomes.

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 26, 2013, 1:10:32 AM4/26/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

If I manage to locate a cheap motherboard, hopefully WG864, will I need to obtain any istallation disks, or will I be able to fit it and run?

I have now measured the motherbaord more accurately, and it appears to be form factor MicroBTX.

Does that gold flash on the Southbridge just indicate that it is the Southbridge?

Paul

unread,

Apr 26, 2013, 1:45:33 AM4/26/13

to

not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
>> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>>
>>
>>
>> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any references greatly received
>>
>>
>>
>> PS. UK references
>
> If I manage to locate a cheap motherboard, hopefully WG864, will I need to obtain
> any istallation disks, or will I be able to fit it and run?

I'm hoping it's close enough, to not even need any new drivers or anything.
It should just work.

*******

On a pre-built computer, the OS automatically activates, based on the SLIC table
stored in the BIOS. A Dell OS, validates using the Dell BIOS info. That's why
the WG864 is a good fit for your pre-built computer. The SLIC table will be
there, in the BIOS, any time your machine needs to return to factory install
setup.

On my computer, built myself, the BIOS has no SLIC table. I have to
click the activate button, and my computer contacts the Microsoft
server to activate.

In your case, by swapping in the WG864, the OS notices the NIC MAC address
is different (so the motherboard swap isn't completely the same), but all other
things being equal, no attempt should be made to activate again. It really
should be clear sailing. (Activation is measured, as per the following
article. This is Microsoft's attempt at keeping "one OS per box" and not
shifting the OSes around.)

http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.htm

Your computer case, had a 25 character key on the COA (certificate of authenticity).
In an emergency, you can use a regular Windows installer disc (same OS
as was on the computer originally) and reinstall, and you then use that COA key.
The SLIC table is no longer consulted in that case, and your activation
works the same way mine does. So the license key on the COA sticker on the
computer, isn't actually the same key as is in the preinstalled OS.

>
> I have now measured the motherbaord more accurately, and it appears to be form
> factor MicroBTX.

Sounds reasonable. Not all Dells are BTX, but a certain generation of
them will have BTX boxes used.

>
> Does that gold flash on the Southbridge just indicate that it is the Southbridge?

Gold markings are sometimes used to indicate pin 1, or pin A1
in the case of a BGA package. During assembly, a human might
quickly eyeball the package, to ensure the marking is located
in the right corner. And that the chip did not get rotated
by accident during "pick and place".

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 26, 2013, 9:57:04 AM4/26/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

Yes, I see that sticker (Certificate of Authentication).

As I recall, I had some difficulty booting before the hardware problem. If I need to repair, or re-install, the OS after installing the motherboard could this present a problem? I also have some Linux CD's and live USB's as well.

Thanks

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 26, 2013, 9:59:23 AM4/26/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

I've noticed that the article you referenced is for XP, I had Vista Home Premium, 32 bit installed.

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 26, 2013, 10:30:05 AM4/26/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

I used the site you referenced and found the Vista OS link. However the WPA links back to XP.

When the time comes, I would rather run a free Linux OS than buy another copy of Vista.

Paul

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Apr 26, 2013, 3:54:25 PM4/26/13

to

The Dell WG864 has the SLIC table in the BIOS, and the recovery partition on
the hard drive (the one you used to burn the recovery CD set), can
also be used to reload the OS into C:. The OS automatically activates,
without going to the net.

It's for situations where the hard drive died, you didn't make recovery
CDs like you were supposed to, then you can take a regular Windows installer
CD and use the COA license key. Then, the OS must be activated in the
same way as a home user would do it. If there's any problem, you just
phone Microsoft and they can help you.

If you put a non-Dell motherboard in your computer, then the Dell recovery
CD set will complain. And then you'd need to use the COA key and
a regular installer CD. And explain what you've done, to Microsoft
staff, so they can fix things up as needed. Worst case, the person
on the phone at Microsoft, gives you a very long string of characters,
to override the activation problem.

Microsoft should provide free tech support, for activation problems.
Certain classes of problems (i.e. the ones caused by Microsoft),
they offer to fix those. And activation is their problem.
As would be a Service Pack issue, or a Windows Update problem.

If the replacement motherboard is the same as the original, I
expect very little in the way of problems.

Paul

Paul

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Apr 26, 2013, 4:14:34 PM4/26/13

to

That article, gives some indication how Microsoft
goes about tracking hardware changes for product
activation. Since it only "hints" at it, there aren't
any iron-clad rules publicly available. Even if
there were rules available, it probably wouldn't
be of much practical help to people. When there
is a problem, you still get to phone Microsoft.
They'll fix activation issues for you. Worst case,
the phone operator gives you a long string of
digits to type in, to override product activation,
so on a one-off basis, a problem can be fixed.

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 27, 2013, 12:06:31 AM4/27/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

Thank you

'It's for situations where the hard drive died, you didn't make recovery

CDs like you were supposed to, then you can take a regular Windows installer
CD and use the COA license key. Then, the OS must be activated in the
same way as a home user would do it. If there's any problem, you just

phone Microsoft and they can help you.'

I did not make a recovery disk - I have the original VISTA disk - will this suffice?

Would I still need to make an installer, presumably I could make this prior to activation? I don't know how.

If I needed to phone Microsoft, will the number appear on the screen - hopefully toll free from the UK?

For Dell systems people usually contact them (Dell) - obviously not in this case.

Best wishes.

unread,

Apr 27, 2013, 10:25:22 AM4/27/13

to

As far as I know, that's an anodized aluminum heatsink.
It's aluminum underneath. The coating on the outside, helps
protect the aluminum. If you take a sharp tool, and scratch
off the black finish, shiny aluminum should be underneath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing

The "fully tested" means what you'd expect - the motherboard
was removed from a working system. Since you can't see them
doing the work, from 3000 miles away, they're under no
obligation to even lift a finger to test it.

Imagine the labor cost component, if they actually did
test them. They're not going to hire extra guys, to
sit around testing stuff all day. No profit in that.

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Apr 27, 2013, 10:12:31 PM4/27/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Im my search for motherboards I am only looking for the motherboard, no RAM, or CPU. I have a CPU and RAM modules on the old board and tend to use these on the next board.

Regarding my previous post and the question about motherbpoard testing. I had in mind that perhaps there was some form of diagnostic tool that could be plugged into the board. Grenn light fully functional; red light faulty - something like that. It appears not to be the case. However, I have read many posts where people talk of refurbished motherboards, this does suggest that faulty boards have beeen repaired, hence faults must have been identified.

Reagarding the cooling fins on the card mentioned, I assume that there must be a chip under the fins that requires cooling.

Best wishes.

Paul

unread,

Apr 28, 2013, 12:39:49 AM4/28/13

to

not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
>> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>>
>>
>>
>> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any references greatly received
>>
>>
>>
>> PS. UK references
>
> Im my search for motherboards I am only looking for the motherboard,
> no RAM, or CPU. I have a CPU and RAM modules on the old board and tend
> to use these on the next board.
>
> Regarding my previous post and the question about motherbpoard testing.
> I had in mind that perhaps there was some form of diagnostic tool that
> could be plugged into the board. Grenn light fully functional; red light
> faulty - something like that.

unread,

Apr 30, 2013, 12:47:49 AM4/30/13

to

En el art�culo <33a1bab0-7780-4655...@googlegroups.com>,
not_here.5....@xoxy.net escribi�:

>Reagarding the cooling fins on the card mentioned, I assume that there must be a
>chip under the fins that requires cooling.

No, they just put the fins there to make the card look pretty.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Mike Tomlinson

unread,

Apr 30, 2013, 12:49:23 AM4/30/13

to

En el art�culo <e986fdd9-5ecd-4567...@googlegroups.com>,
not_here.5....@xoxy.net escribi�:

>I see the aluminium solid state capacitor - What is the blue flash on top for?
>
>On the video card there are some light green things with a different burst
>pattern on top. I assume these are also capacitors?
>
>Are capacitors for regulating the current? There a quite a lot of them.
>
>Are those things with copper turning wires voltage regulators?

Why don't you Google for answers to your questions, instead of expecting
them to be handed to you on a plate?

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

unread,

Apr 30, 2013, 8:02:47 AM4/30/13

to

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:49:23 AM UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
> En el artï¿½culo <e986fdd9-5ecd-4567-9024-ff323192280.com>,
>
> .net escribiï¿½:

>
>
>
> >I see the aluminium solid state capacitor - What is the blue flash on top for?
>
> >
>
> >On the video card there are some light green things with a different burst
>
> >pattern on top. I assume these are also capacitors?
>
> >
>
> >Are capacitors for regulating the current? There a quite a lot of them.
>
> >
>
> >Are those things with copper turning wires voltage regulators?
>
>
>
> Why don't you Google for answers to your questions, instead of expecting
>
> them to be handed to you on a plate?
>
>
>
> --
>
> (\_/)
>
> (='.'=)
>
> (")_(")

It has nothing to do with you.

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 2, 2013, 12:34:45 AM5/2/13

to

On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:17:54 AM UTC+1, Paul wrote:

Paul,

Why do designers use electrolytic and polymer based capacitors on single boards. I would expect them to use one or the other?

Paul

unread,

May 2, 2013, 2:09:47 AM5/2/13

to

not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>
> Why do designers use electrolytic and polymer based capacitors on single boards.
> I would expect them to use one or the other?

If the polymer caps cost a penny more, then the motherboard designer
will only use them were absolutely necessary.

The VCore regulator is a stressful circuit. With a need for a high
ripple rating, and multiple capacitors. "Amps" of current, flow
through those caps. That means, if Polymer caps are to be used at all,
they'll first appear around the CPU socket. Or, perhaps
for the VDimm regulator circuit.

Now, there are also caps on the board, for "filtering of power rails".
These caps are sprinkled around the board, and their location is
less critical. They might be termed "bulk capacitance". The amount
of ripple current flowing through them, is small. And, it is small,
because the ATX power supply already regulated out most of the AC behavior.
So DC is placed across the bulk bypass caps, and they aren't really
stressed at all. If a PCI card draws a slug of current all the sudden,
the bulk bypass cap fills the void, giving the ATX supply time (maybe
a millisecond), to respond in a useful way.

For those "less stressed" or "bulk" capacitors, you can use whatever
you want. If an electrolytic is a penny cheaper, then in they go.

On enthusiast motherboards, the marketing department will tell
engineering, to use nothing but polymer.

If the motherboard only retails for $50, then you'll find it
filled with electrolytics.

And to repeat, there is nothing wrong with electrolytics. The reputation
of electrolytics, was ruined by the "bad electrolyte" episode. And that's
why we have such a mix of implementations.

*******

Even on video cards, you can find the same kind of split thinking. But
video cards at least, were using polymer before the plague happened,
So in fact their introduction was driven by implementation issues. If
the product is high end, you could well find polymer, or even ceramic,
used for power regulation circuits.

*******

On this video card, an unconventional regulator is used for the GPU
core power. There are Volterra regulator chips. And notice the lack of
tin cans near it. Just a few tin cans, for bulk bypass. The energy
storage in this case, may be done with relatively low profile ceramic
caps. Which can be very expensive. (I managed to buy some recently,
for $0.27 a piece, but they can be a lot more than that.)

http://images.ht4u.net/reviews/2009/amd_radeon_hd_4890/front_blank.jpg

http://hothardware.com/image_popup.aspx?image=big_5970_slide-3.jpg&articleid=1417&t=a

And this motherboard, uses a Volterra setup and ceramic caps, just above
the CPU socket.

http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2008/11/first-look-dfi-lanparty-x58-t3eh8/mobo-s.jpg

Another Volterra setup.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Computex2006/DFI/images/pwm.jpg

And I found something interesting here. How embarrassing.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/mainboard/evga-nforce-790i-sli-ftw-digital-pwm-nforce790i-sli-p1.html

I thought the chips with the "C" logo, were regulators, when in fact
they contain the coils. The Volterra stuff is above that. That's why
you can't identify any traditional coils. Those circuits run at a much
higher frequency than a regular VCore regulator, a frequency so high, that
electrolytics would no longer be appropriate (electrolytics are really
crude devices, and ill-suited to life above 1MHz). Even ceramics have
their limitations (there is some variation in quality and circuit parameters
- the ones I bought for $0.27 have rather poor parameters and high ESR).

I got a hint, from glancing at the first page of this paper. It
says "digital VRM", but the functional block still shows the usage
of L and C. And then, looking at the info in the ixbtlabs photo
and caption, I can see I was looking at the wrong components.

http://www-power.eecs.berkeley.edu/publications/xiao_peterchev_sanders_pesc.pdf

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 5, 2013, 9:20:39 AM5/5/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Hi,

The diagrams show clearly the ceramic capacitors.

I am looking at a WG864 motherboard at the moment.

All Wg864 motherboards that I have seen have a black SATA connector (SATA4). However, this one has a white connector. Do I need to worry about this?

I have checked the the DS/N number, it agrees with mine up to CN 0WG864-4811 - then disagrees. I assume that this disagreement is due to the fact that it is a different motherboard (unique number). Am I correct?

The cpu coverplate looks a little different to mine, it is solid and has what looks like white dashes around the edges! I don't think I need to be concerned.

Best wishes

Paul

unread,

May 5, 2013, 12:31:54 PM5/5/13

to

A quick Google, says the DS/N is the first part of the PPID, also
known as a serial number. So the reason the trailing digits would
differ, is that is part of the serial number that is unique. Try a
Google, and see if you can get any more info about the formulation
of "Dell PPID".

The SATA ports are color coded, for functions such as RAID. Say there
were two controllers, one controller had dual RAID ports, then they'd be
the same color.

When you see a Dell with four different SATA colors for the four ports,
that implies to me they are non-RAID, and limited to IDE or AHCI modes.
Motherboards with six SATA connectors, are more likely to be RAID capable.

If they change colors in midst of production, all that matters is whether
the replacement connectors match colors the same way. If two ports were
black on a previous production run, then it would be OK for the same
two ports to be yellow. It's to help you identify things like RAID ports,
if they're present. Or, if the system has an ESATA port, ESATA adapter plate
and cable, an "odd" color may be used to identify the sixth port reserved
for that function (some AMD boards do that).

The Pick and Place Cap (PNP cover) is intended to protect Intel LGA
sockets from damage. When the CPU is not present, you put the cover
back in place. So don't throw it away. For example, if sending a
motherboard to Asus for repair/warranty, if it arrives with no PNP
cap in place, the warranty claim may be rejected. Same goes for
warranty claims, where the LGA socket springs are bent. That's
considered to be "customer damage", even though there are plenty of
cases where the shipper is what caused the damage.(Even with a PNP
cap, there have been cases of the socket getting damaged in transit.
Somehow.)

It doesn't matter if the PNP cover is a different color or not, as
long as it is the right size to protect the socket.

The older "ZIF" sockets, don't need protection, because the top
plastic layer on those provides a good deal of protection on its own.
You can rip the top off a ZIF, but it takes an effort.

The Intel LGA is surprisingly good, for what it is. When it
first came out, I was predicting it would be a disaster, but
it turned out fine. Some other company tried a similar idea,
and theirs stunk (lots of field service trips for techs,
when the processor crashed). So Intel did some good work when
they did theirs. I was expecting the LGA2011 would be a disaster,
due to the large number of contacts, but I haven't heard any serious
complaints there. Perhaps because not too many people can afford them.

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 5, 2013, 11:46:24 PM5/5/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Hi,

There is a very detailed article detailing the Dell PPID system.

http://domino.bradycms.com/brady/TSCv2r0.NSF/d60e39b34fb4cb9d86256a0e0071cbef/1a3bed99a472266c8625704400416860/$FILE/13190_A-2D-06.pdf

'PPID –Piece Part Identification - A twenty digit bar code message that will contain the country of origin ISO
code, DELL Part Number, supplier identification code, date of manufacture and unique sequence number. Part
revision is identified by a separate three digit barcode'

Lots more information.

Regarding your point and the number of controlers (black vs. white connectors). Since I am thinking of taking the whole motherboard does this have any importance for my connections on installation?

You mention the CPU protection plate. Looking at my motherboard the plate that covers the cpu has a large hole the displays the back of the cpu. If I removed the cpu the mobo connections would be exposed. Not a problem for replacing the cpu, but transit without the cpu migh be problematic. Not important in my case.

Best wishes

Paul

unread,

May 6, 2013, 3:14:27 AM5/6/13

to

not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> There is a very detailed article detailing the Dell PPID system.
>
> http://domino.bradycms.com/brady/TSCv2r0.NSF/d60e39b34fb4cb9d86256a0e0071cbef/1a3bed99a472266c8625704400416860/$FILE/13190_A-2D-06.pdf
>

> 'PPID ï¿½Piece Part Identification - A twenty digit bar code message that will contain the country of origin ISO

> code, DELL Part Number, supplier identification code, date of manufacture and unique sequence number. Part
> revision is identified by a separate three digit barcode'
>
> Lots more information.
>
> Regarding your point and the number of controlers (black vs. white connectors). Since I am thinking of taking the whole motherboard does this have any importance for my connections on installation?
>
> You mention the CPU protection plate. Looking at my motherboard the plate that covers the cpu has a large hole the displays the back of the cpu. If I removed the cpu the mobo connections would be exposed. Not a problem for replacing the cpu, but transit without the cpu migh be problematic. Not important in my case.
>
> Best wishes
>

So the PPID does have unique sequence or serial number,
and perhaps that's where the numbers differ.

For the SATA port, try the same relative port as you
used before. If the pattern is the same shape and occupies
the same locations, maybe that'll be enough to get things
going.

The PNP cap, you can pick one of those up separately,
before shipping an LGA socketed motherboards. A CPU could
be used as a cover, but that's a rather expensive cover.

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 6, 2013, 7:52:59 AM5/6/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

I've had a better look at my motherboard.

There are four SATA connectors

Two close to the edge of the mobo (one blue, the other black).

Two on the other side of the white 24 pin socket (both black).

Does this mean two SATA controllers (blue and black). I assume the colour indicates a different use.

The board I am looking at for sale on the Net has the same blue and black connectors close to the edge, and a white and black connector on the other side of the 24 pin connector (looks like three SATA controllers in operation). I assume that it makes no difference to me which controller is in operation, especially if the latter two are not in use.

I noticed something interesting on the label (for sale item), it gave the PPID number and then said SILVERSTONE. I have used Google to try and find out what this means. It seems to be some sort of technology. Does this have any significance for me?

Thanks

Paul

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May 6, 2013, 8:38:26 AM5/6/13

to

not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:

>
> I've had a better look at my motherboard.
>
> There are four SATA connectors
>
> Two close to the edge of the mobo (one blue, the other black).
>
> Two on the other side of the white 24 pin socket (both black).
>
> Does this mean two SATA controllers (blue and black). I assume
> the colour indicates a different use.
>
> The board I am looking at for sale on the Net has the same blue
> and black connectors close to the edge, and a white and black
> connector on the other side of the 24 pin connector (looks like
> three SATA controllers in operation). I assume that it makes no
> difference to me which controller is in operation, especially if
> the latter two are not in use.
>
> I noticed something interesting on the label (for sale item), it
> gave the PPID number and then said SILVERSTONE. I have used Google
> to try and find out what this means. It seems to be some sort of
> technology. Does this have any significance for me?
>
> Thanks

Let's go back to this picture as a reference.

http://www.teleful.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/dell_dimension_e520.jpg

What I see when I look at that picture is.

IDE
Connector
+-+
| |
| | +-----+
| | | ??? |
| | | |
| | +-----+
| |
| |
+-+
SATA SATA
(Blue) (Black)

Those three connectors and chip, work together.
You read the part number off the top of the square
chip, Google that, and it'll tell you what kind
of chip it is. It could be a JMicron or a VIA
storage controller.

The blue and black, tells me this is an "On The Go"
RAID setup. You connect a data drive to one connector,
a backup drive is connected to the second connector (whenever
you want to do a backup). The chip runs a soft RAID mirror,
such that one drive is mirrored to the other, on demand.
So when you want to back up the data drive, a second drive
gets connected to the SATA pair, and a sector by sector copy
is done.

That's what that section tells me. If the IDE connector
was not present, then it could be a Silicon Image 1:2
RAID setup. But with the IDE present, I'm guessing the
marketing department wanted IDE for a storage option,
and the two additional SATA connectors "came along for
the ride". Once you record the part number off the
chip I marked with the "???", we'll know more.

*******

The other section is the Southbridge. Notice that, there
is room for more than the two black connectors side by side.
A Southbridge has four or six ports. A six port Southbridge,
supports RAID, whereas a four port Southbridge typically
only supports independent disk drives. The silicon is
exactly the same inside - it is just the chip is configured
to restrict the ports and operating modes. (For example,
when they make ICH10 and ICH10R, it's the same chip, and
at some step when the chip is packaged, it is "programmed"
to have one personality or the other. Purchase price
in manufacturing, is $3 different between the two chip
options. That's what the "more capable" chip would have
cost Dell.)

There is room for four connectors. To save a piddly few pennies,
they decided to not solder the second set of connectors. Otherwise,
the silicon support for the additional two ports, is "free". As
the Southbridge is unlikely to have only two ports.

(Not
installed) BLACK
+-+ +-+
|S| |S|
|A| |A|
|T| |T|
|A| |A|
+-+ +-+

+-+ +-+ Southbridge
|S| |S| +------------+
|A| |A| | |
|T| |T| | |
|A| |A| | |
+-+ +-+ | |
(Not BLACK | |
installed) | |
+------------+

I'm guessing, your boot drive is connected to one of these two
black connectors.

Finding a detailed spec for your computer, would likely
identify how the storage works on it.

*******

I have no idea what "SILVERSTONE" means. It is a brand of
computer cases and power supplies, made by silverstonetek. But
other than that, the name doesn't ring a bell. Perhaps it is
an internal Intel name for the generation of hardware (chipset
or processor?).

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 7, 2013, 12:30:43 AM5/7/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

I have used a magnifying glass to read the chip

Sigmatel
STAC92275X5 T48E-CA2 xxxxxx xxxx

I Used Google and found the part, but little in the way of description. It seems that this an audio chip. I assumed that its proxity to the SATA1 and SATA 0 that is was connected to these ports - not sure now.

Using the magnifying glass does help. I see clearly the STACK connectors you were referring to.

Paul

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May 7, 2013, 4:25:31 AM5/7/13

to

I was just going by the shape and configuration of components.
Reading off the chip numbers is an integral part of that.
And you're right, STAC is audio (now owned by IDT as far
as I know, another semiconductor company).

So if all the connectors in those two areas, are connected to the
Southbridge, that doesn't explain why one of the four SATA ports
is blue, and the others black.

One thread I can find, says chipset is G965 and ICH8. Audio is
Sigmatel 9227 (that's the Stac thing).

This is a diagram (originated from Intel), for G965 and ICH8.
No IDE port.

http://xtreview.com/images/G965-nForce-650i-Ultra-SiS672FX/intel-g965.jpg

And the Dell spec says "floppy drive". An interesting choice.
They keep floppy, but don't bother with an IDE ?

So the config looks like this then. Still doesn't explain
the blue connector.

SuperI/O ----- Floppy (34 pin)

ICH8 ---- Black SATA5
---- Black SATA4
---- Black SATA1
---- Blue SATA0
----X (Connectors populated only
----X if ICH8R used - would be #2 and #3)

G965 ---- (dual channel RAM)
---- PCI Express slot for video etc

Does your computer manual for the Dell E520, mention the
blue connector at all ?

On page 68 here, the blue connector is port "SATA0".
So for some reason, maybe they want you to use that
one first ? I would have guessed the connectors
were relatively equal in function. Seems a poor reason
for the color pattern. (Some Dells, in this situation,
all the SATA connectors are different colors. No two alike.)

http://web.archive.org/web/20070303114049/http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dimE520/en/OM_en/NH730A01.pdf

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 10, 2013, 12:45:31 PM5/10/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Hi Paul,

When I bought the pc from Dell, I received very little information - nothing regarding blue SATA ports.

I put SATA port colours into Google and found that many people are asking exactly the same question - what do these colours mean. I have not seen a definitive answer from the many advisors that have commented - it has generated some interest.

Paul

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May 10, 2013, 3:25:12 PM5/10/13

to

The blue port is SATA0.

And that fact should not be very important.

I would not expect the blue port to have any special properties.
It should be the same as the others.

Paul

generic name

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May 10, 2013, 9:22:07 PM5/10/13

to

Not sure if the same thing applies, but my MSI has blue ports to
indicate that they are 6 Gb/s ports vs the current standard 3 Gb/s
sata ports. The blue ports are compatible to 3 Gb/s drives as I've
found even if I've reconfigured for future "in case".

Paul

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May 10, 2013, 11:11:57 PM5/10/13

to

I tried an analysis based on layout shape, but that turned out to
be wrong once we got the chip number off the square chip next to
the blue SATA port. The SATA ports on that motherboard, all seem
to be driven by the Southbridge. So the motherboard lacks a separate
chip. And the chipset is not modern enough for SATA III. Like my chipset,
it's still in the SATA II generation.

The chipset is G965 and ICH8, for Northbridge and Southbridge.

In the article here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_chipsets

the string "6 Gbit" appears in the LGA 1155 section of the tables.
So something in the P67 or later would be SATA III. That's the
chipset era, where the design was recalled because the Southbridge
actually had a design defect, and the "good" respin of the chipset
were revision "B3". Intel spent a few bucks cleaning that up...

Paul

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May 16, 2013, 12:02:16 PM5/16/13

to

As far as I'm concerned, they're all the same. If you find
it doesn't work, connect your boot device to the blue one.
But I really don't think it matters. It's just an Intel
Southbridge after all, not some crappy third-party controller.

If you have a multimeter, set your meter to 10 or 20VDC full-scale,
touch the red test lead to the top of the CR2032 battery (labeled
with a plus sign). Touch the black lead, to some shiny chassis metal,
such as the shiny metal on an I/O connector in the I/O plate area.
I use an unfilled screw hole back there, as a place to probe with
the black lead.

A new battery, will read slightly more than 3.0 volts.

A bad battery, will read 2.4V or less. Replace the battery
if it is less than 2.4V.

A lot of computers can be started, even if the battery is
flat, so for your first test, you don't have to worry about
that. There are cases of motherboards that refuse to start
with a flat battery - the battery is a backup device, and
the primary power source (ATX supply) should still allow
the motherboard to start.

Getting the battery out, can be a bit of a nuisance. It's
hard to manipulate the spring retainer, to get the battery
out. You want the computer unplugged, while doing it, because
the battery has a tendency to spring out and fall on the
motherboard. (It might short out stuff...)

When putting in the new battery, you can use a tissue or
gloves, to keep salty finger prints off the battery. That's
to help keep the battery contacts clean (corrosion). While
it probably doesn't make a difference, I keep them
clean while changing them. It adds to the fun.

The alcohol wipe might be intended for keeping the battery
clean, but that seems overkill.

An alcohol wipe might also be used for cleaning thermal paste
off the CPU top, but again, you'll likely need more materials
than that, to do the cleaning. Before you apply the fresh
thermal paste.

*******

For ESD protection, you can use one of these. How these differ
from "a piece of wire", is this strap contains a high
resistance path (~ 1 megohm or higher), to gently equalize
electric charge. You clip the red alligator clip, to an
I/O screw on the back of the computer. The other part,
fastens around your wrist.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103245

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 17, 2013, 1:05:27 AM5/17/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Should I check before installing the motherboard to see if there is a battery in place - my guess is there is not, hence the supplied battery.

I don't have any paste to place on top of the processor. The interface contact should be alright (screws to the mobo). I might have some vasalene somewhere, but I doubt if you would recommend using this.

Could the wipe be for cleaning the RAM connectors (on RAM) or the cpu contacts (on the cpu, not mobo), videocard connectors, and other card connectors before installing them into the 'new motherboard'?

I don't want to buy an earthing strap for a one-off job. But I will do my best to ensure I am at the same potential as the case, using the cable and touching the case often, and only handling the mobo at the edges.

I feel that I am getting close.

Best wishes.

Ps. On another point

I was reading a post where someone said that it is vital to fit Dell motherboards to Dell power supplies (I am) because the connections from the Dell power supply are non-standard. Any truth in this (it does not affect me, but is interesting, and a nuisance if true.)

unread,

May 17, 2013, 8:40:17 AM5/17/13

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 19, 2013, 12:14:27 AM5/19/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Hi Paul.

Just cleaning up the interior of the case - quite a lot of dust.

As a matter of interest, can dust in the case cause problems?

I've also noticed a white/red plastic thing (P10, or PIO) that connects by four wires (white, red, black, black) to the psu. The dark red plastic looks like a sort of large LED. Any idea what this is?

I've also noticed on the connector cables a coloured piece of wire that loops from one side of the connector to the other. Any idea what this is for?

The cable ties are also very tight and cut to their locking point, if I ever needed to remove them I assume that I would have to force a blade underneath and cut?

When the pc is hopefully up and running should the fan be in constant motion, or does it only operate above a certain temperature?

Just on temperature, why do the cpu's run so hot. My heatsink is quite a large device, having cleaning the plate (ready for paste) I note that it is made of copper, showing the important of heat conduction.

Best wishes

Paul

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May 19, 2013, 4:16:30 AM5/19/13

to

not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
>> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>>
>>
>>
>> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any references greatly received
>>
>>
>>
>> PS. UK references
>
> Hi Paul.
>
> Just cleaning up the interior of the case - quite a lot of dust.
>
> As a matter of interest, can dust in the case cause problems?

Dust by itself, might not cause a problem. But mixed with other
things, it makes things worse. For example, combined with high
humidity, or corrosive liquids, dust can be trapped under ICs and
help promote corrosion. Or fungus. Or mold.

But if the machine is relatively dry, the air isn't too polluted,
the dust won't do too much on its own.

If the dust insulates things (is several inches thick), or blocks
airflow, then that might cause something to overheat.

And the actual act of dust collection, is aggravated by whether
the case is "positive pressure" or "negative pressure". So it is
possible to make the case gain less dust, or for the dust level
to never exceed a thin coating, all by changing how the fans
are arranged.

>
> I've also noticed a white/red plastic thing (P10, or PIO) that
> connects by four wires (white, red, black, black) to the psu. The dark
> red plastic looks like a sort of large LED. Any idea what this is?

The wire color could be yellow, red, black, black, in which case
it is probably a disk power connector. Yellow would be +12V, and
red would be +5V.

You can browse the pictures here, and see if your connector
matches something on this page.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

>
> I've also noticed on the connector cables a coloured piece of wire
> that loops from one side of the connector to the other. Any idea
> what this is for?

Could be a handle used to remove the connector from its mate.

I had a cable here today, where that handle broke. PITA.

>
> The cable ties are also very tight and cut to their locking point,
> if I ever needed to remove them I assume that I would have to force
> a blade underneath and cut?

Use diagonal cutters. These come in various sizes.

http://www.robotshop.com/Images/big/en/elenco-st-26-diagonal-cutters.jpg

While they make "flush cut" tools as well, the one I tried didn't work
very well.

And the most expensive diagonal cutters I've owned, cost $100. They
had a relatively tiny business end on them, for snipping the legs of
tiny ICs.

I've broken the tips of two of my diagonal cutters here, and they
just don't make tools like they used to. But there should not be
a problem cutting nylon tie-wraps. That material is relatively soft.

If you use a knife on nylon ties, there is a tendency to "hack" at
the nylon, as the blade just doesn't seem to cut in one pass. This
can cause collateral damage. And that is why I strongly recommend
another tool, such as the diagonal cutter. The cutters are also
better than scissors. Scissors tend to require multiple "bites"
to get through the nylon. The diagonal cutter does it on the
first "snip".

>
> When the pc is hopefully up and running should the fan be in
> constant motion, or does it only operate above a certain temperature?

Fans can use closed loop feedback. Or, they can operate without
any feedback. No matter what happens, the important thing is
to monitor the temperature, and fix it if the setup is wrong.

Your number one priority, is to check disk drive temperature.
If the disk drive is in the 50C to 60C range, then it needs
some cooling. The program HDTune can read out the temperature
of the disk, using the SMART interface on the disk. Temperature
is a parameter in that interface.

The second priority, is keeping the CPU cool enough, so it
does not throttle the clock rate. The CPU is capable of
defending itself, but a side effect is you get less performance
from the CPU when that happens. And if the CPU temperature
continues to rise, eventually the PC will turn itself off.

>
> Just on temperature, why do the cpu's run so hot. My heatsink
> is quite a large device, having cleaning the plate (ready for
> paste) I note that it is made of copper, showing the important
> of heat conduction.

At the end of the Pentium 4 era, some of the heat was
caused by excessive leakage current. Generations of
processors after P4, have gradually improved on leakage.
At its worse, leakage accounted for 25% of the heat.

*******

The parameter for heatsinks, is theta_R or thermal resistance.

The stock cooler, might be 0.33C/W. A good after market cooler
could be 0.12C/W.

The cheapest coolers, might use aluminum. Next level of performance,
is aluminum with a copper slug in the center. And the level above
that, uses heatpipes to distribute the heat into the fins. A heatpipe
is a better conductor, than a solid copper bar of the same diameter.
Heatpipes work on phase change principles (vapor on one end of the
pipe, liquid condensate on the other end).

>
> Best wishes

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 19, 2013, 8:20:43 AM5/19/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Thank you

I did check 'Playtool' previously and could not see that PIO connector. The body is white, but it has red cap, no connectors visible, maybe the cap is removable, but it looks so distinctive.

Regarding thermal pastes. Should I be looking at the ceramic pastes which do not contain metal and, therfore, maybe safer because they do not conduct electricity; or should I be looking for metal pastes because they conduct heat a little better. I have noted the Arctic Cooling Mx-2 Thermal Paste, however there is is also Arctic Silver 5, and many others.

When applying paste, it looks like a good method is to use a pea sized blob placed in the centre of the cpu. As you said, not too much and no too little.

Best wishes.

unread,

May 19, 2013, 5:22:47 PM5/19/13

to

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_dimension_desktops/dimension-e520_service%20manual_en-us.pdf

On PDF page 13, P10 appears to be a Molex 1x4, suitable
for an older IDE drive. It's on the end of the cable,
that also has P8 and P9 SATA 15 contact connectors.

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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May 20, 2013, 12:16:35 AM5/20/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Hi,

It does look like the P10, but I still see a white rather than a yellow cable. I suppose that red cap I see can be removed. I haven't tried to pull it off in case I am wrong.

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Jun 2, 2013, 12:03:53 AM6/2/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 5:32:16 AM UTC+1, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Paul

I hope you are still around.

I have now installed a WG864 motherboard (Dell).

On starting the machine the POST test is working, unlike before. But I cannot start Vista.

I ran Startup repair and got the message:
Cannot repair automatically. Would you like to send the information to Microsoft.

I viewed the details and noted: Problem Signature and ten listed (1-10).
I clicked finish at this point.

On rebooting, I pressed F12 and noticed that only the floppy and hard disk are listed.

Please can you advise.

Thanks.

Ps. I only made one mistake on re-assembling - not connecting the fan. But as soom as the message came up I switched off the tower and connected the cable. Everything seems alright, other than not being able to start Vista or being able to use the other drives.

Regarding paste, I decided on Titan Nano Grease, cheap and has good reviews. I read on the Web that people who have the LGA775 socket usually paste the heatsink because of problems with the latch on the cpu - access is also a problem. I tinted both surfaces, then used a credit card to ensure an even and thin spread. When I am up and running I will be interested in noting the cpu temperature.

Best wishes

unread,

Jun 2, 2013, 1:58:14 PM6/2/13

to

Have you looked in the BIOS for "Boot sequence" ?
If the disk is listed in the BIOS, then go to the
Boot sequence, and make sure a hard drive, and that
specific hard drive, appear in the boot sequence.

"Boot Sequence" page 30

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_dimension_desktops/dimension-e520_service%20manual_en-us.pdf

*******

What I wanted to do with the Linux LiveCD, is just
observe that the Vista C: is visible. You'll likely
see several partitions, as a Dell also has a recovery
partition. (On some of the LiveCDs, there is a button
at the beginning, to choose between "just running" Linux,
versus "installing". And we want the "just running"
option for a look around. Under the "Places" menu,
should be named disk partitions. I always place a
label on my Windows partitions, so they end up named
in Linux as well.)

This is what the primary partition table (sector 0 of disk)
shows for a Dell. The "07" is large, at 70894845 sectors,
and that would be NTFS "C:". That second entry also has the
boot flag set on it.

http://www.goodells.net/dellrestore/files/dell-tbl.gif

"DE" is a Dell Utility partition.

http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/

This is for older systems.

http://www.goodells.net/dellrestore/

There is a separate section for Vista machines.

http://www.goodells.net/dellrestore/vista/

DE 00 <--- FAT16 Dell Utilities partition (disguised with "DE")
07 00 <--- 10GB ImageX recovery partition
07 80 <--- C: partition

I use this page, as a reference on partition types. Using fake
partition type fields, only adds to the misery.

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-1.html

I doubt browsing the Goodells site is going to restore
your machine magically, but I find it is one of the best
sites for background information.

The PTEDIT32 they use, runs from Windows, and is available for
free from Symantec (who bought PowerQuest years ago).

ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip

In Linux, in a Terminal, the equivalent to PTEDIT32 is:

sudo fdisk /dev/sda <--- a,b,c... are disk drives
p <--- print partition table
q <--- quit

*******

I don't know how the Service Tag is maintained. Whether
it is derived from the contents of the disk, or is a
quantity held in CMOS RAM.

Paul

Flasherly

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Jun 2, 2013, 2:18:45 PM6/2/13

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On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 04:28:46 -0700 (PDT),

>Flasherly,
>How did you measure the cpu temp using the BIOS settings?

First time was the usual -
http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php
Don't leave home w/out it.

Since so low, second time, I immediately entered the BIOS - on the
last screen, right colum, 4th selection from the bottom, with system
settings (last three all deal with saving preceeding selection
settings) - and that screen is health monitoring. All/most MBs should
have that. (Also where you set the system shutdown, failsafe
proceedures once CPU temperatures exceed a user-defined preset range.)

First thing always to do after finished building, setting a CPU
cooler, is get there to that BIOS screen pronto to check to see your
work in fact works well, and nothing is going into melt-down.

Second time results at 25C on immediate boot. Takes awhile, something
more, for the CPU temperatures to gather heat and stabalize (from the
BIOS, that can actually be inconsequently different from heat/pwr the
OS/Windows/Speedfan maintains at idle). Awhile time subsequent turned
to 79F (according to SpeedFan - I'd possibly expect something slightly
more if going directly to the BIOS to reread after the system had sat
up for awhile).

Anyway - some things just never change. And SpeedFan is one of them.

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Jun 3, 2013, 12:06:22 AM6/3/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 4:32:16 AM UTC, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Paul,

I'll look at the Boot Sequence shortly.

I have noticed another difficulty.

I have a USB stick with another Linux OS installed. It is bootable.

I noticed that when the stick is inserted in the front usb ports on the tower that the BIOS sticks at one quarter the way across the screen. I have two usb connections on the monitor, one is running the mouse without a problem, But the second will not run that usb.

On the back of the tower I have the keyboard connected (usb) without a problem and the usb will run from the rear.

The test I did on the motherboard reported no faults. This board is reconditioned. It appears that something is not quite right somewhere.

Any suggestions?

I hope that these are only setup problems.

Regards

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

unread,

Jun 3, 2013, 12:28:09 AM6/3/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 4:32:16 AM UTC, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

I am a little lost at the moment with Ubuntu 12.10

I can't find the accessories.

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

unread,

Jun 3, 2013, 11:44:32 PM6/3/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 4:32:16 AM UTC, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

Thanks for responding.

Regarding booting.

I can't boot from Vista. Eventually I will probably try to re-install this operating system, or replace it with UBUNTU.

I can boot using UBUNTU either from the CD drive or a pendrive from a rear usb port.

Regarding the front panel.

When I was using UBUNTU I used one of the facilities and noticed the two usb drives, one contained the operating system (back), and the other was inserted in the front panel, I think that this confirms that the wiring to the front panel is intact.

I clicked on both these usb drives and neither would mount.

I can't see either using Libre Office's word processor, so I can't save or open files.

I hope that this information helps.

Ps. Regarding boot sequence, is it a good idea to remove the numbers from drives that are unused.

Someone on the Web flashed their BIOS and solved their front usb problem. I hope to avoid this in case it causes a problem.

UBUNTU works well, apart from not being able to save etc to a pendive that I would like to insert in the front usb.

Best wishes

unread,

Jun 4, 2013, 9:20:49 AM6/4/13

to

The Linux Foundation thing appears to be virtual. I presume that's
Linux USB hosting running via the Intel chipset. The SMC USB2 hub might
be inside the monitor.

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids

Are you able to open the file system on the two DataTraveler sticks now ?

Paul

not_here.5....@xoxy.net

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Jun 4, 2013, 10:02:23 AM6/4/13

to

On Monday, April 15, 2013 4:32:16 AM UTC, not_here.5....@xoxy.net wrote:
> My motherbaoard has blown and am looking for a repalacement. It can be second-hand or refurbished - the chepaer the better.
>
>
>
> It is to replace a motherboard in a Dell Dimension E 520 (LGA 775, Pentium D 915 2.8GHz processor, chipset probably G965, power supply output 305W. Form factor BTX
>
>
>
> I am considering the DEll motherboard, but I'd like something cheaper, my machine is quite old.
>
>
>
> Any references greatly received
>
>
>
> PS. UK references

I may have misinterpreted the above data. On the UBUNTU desktop I see only one USB symbol UDISK 2.0

Paul

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Jun 4, 2013, 10:53:55 AM6/4/13

to

You can also do "ls /dev" to see things like sda1 or sdc4 or whatever.
That will give some idea of what storage devices are present.

You can use "dmesg" output, to review what was discovered
in terms of hardware.

And I'm sure there are a few variations of the "lsusb" command, that
could shine some light on the subject.

The "fdisk" command, allows examining the MBR.

USB sticks, don't necessarily have an MBR. And Linux and Windows have
different tastes, in partitioning a USB stick. Windows can even place
a single partition on a USB stick, with no MBR. If you use a flash stick
with MBR and multiple FAT32 or NTFS partitions, Windows will only mount
the first one. The other partitions will be ignored. So Windows really
only wants a single partition on a flash stick, and can tolerate with
or without MBR. Linux "fdisk" is for MBR analysis. The "disktype"
command, can determine either situation, as in "sudo disktype /dev/sda".

"TestDisk" on the Linux LiveCD, can scan storage devices, looking for
partitions. Just don't write out any new MBR values with it, unless
you're absolutely sure it's the right thing to do.

The /dev/sda is a raw block device, so programs accessing the device
that way, work at the block level.

Windows also allows raw block device access. \\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0
might be the equivalent of /dev/sda (the whole disk) for example. And
Windows \\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition1 would be /dev/sda1 (the
first partition).

In Windows, you can do "dd --list" using this program, to get
the names of all the block storage devices.

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

Plenty of utilities for examination purposes.

If you cannot get the Linux LiveCD version of disktype to install
from the package manager (it's a PITA, how much work it is to get
that tiny app running). You can also get source from here, and
just build it under your LiveCD.

http://disktype.sourceforge.net/

Paul