Opinion Needed on Bizarre Hard Lockups--Win 95
Brian Reynolds
Please forgive the crosspost, but I wanted to get a good cross-reference
of opinions. Thanks!
If anyone would please cc me by email when they respond, I would greatly
appreciate it. My ISPs news server has been flakey of late!
Well. . . to start, here's the problem:
About 4 out of 5 times, when I turn on my machine, everything works fine
until just past the "Starting Windows 95. . ." part. Then, it goes to
the Windows 95 Logo Screen and locks up there. The hard drive LED
illuminates and stays that way solidly and there is nothing to be done
but turn the power off and on again (or hit the hard-reset button).
Now, here's where it gets strange: This used to only happen one out of
ten times, if that, and sometimes would not happen for weeks. But
lately, it's gotten more and more common.
I built this system myself over a year ago and until around December, I
never had any problems with it.
A bootlog of the failed boot-ups show that it just gets past the setver
part and then stops. Normally, it would have loaded VMM (which despite
my first impression, I hear stands for something like Virtual Machine
Manager rather than Virtual Memory Manager).
Now right around the time this system started giving me troubles, I did
two things.
*Changed video card to Matrox Millenium II w/ 4MB 250 RAMDAC
*Upgraded from 32MB 60ns RAM to 64MB 50ns RAM
I'm inclined to think it's the RAM. This is what I've done to rememdy
the situation (to no avail):
-- Disabled the Windows logo screen (duh). Still locks up but then it
shows "Starting Windows 95. . ." while it sits there.
-- Reformatted drive and reinstalled Windows clean (OSR2 even). Several
times (for unrelated reasons). Checked and updated all drivers.
-- Made sure of my SCSI Termination and Cables. Checked connections.
-- Re-seated the RAM and switched the two 32MB Simms around.
-- Moved all the cards around into different slots (video, SCSI, etc.)
-- Using Norton Diags, I tested the RAM using a "Comprehensive" test that
took over 8 hours. It came up clean.
Now, obviously what is strange about this is the intermittent nature and
the way it seems to be getting worse (!). Something tells me it's the
RAM. But, there are some factors that make me think that's pretty
unlikely, though still the *most* likely (sigh):
1. It's Micron RAM from Crucial Technologies (premium stuff).
2. The RAM came up clean in the diags.
3. This system runs totally clean and stable once past this obstacle
(though UO crashes in a similar way--Just freezes, hard, and I have to
reboot).
Here's my System Specs:
Pentium 200 (No MMX)
Supermicro P5-STE w/ 512k Rev 3 (?) motherboard
64 MB 50ns RAM
Matrox Millenium II w/ 4MB 250 RAMDAC
Adaptec 2940UW
Quantum Atlas 2.1 GB
Plextor 8-Plex CD-ROM
SB32 PnP
Roland SCC-1 MIDI Card
The BIOS settings are optimal/safe according to Megatrends. Nothing
fancy.
I'm stumped, and don't want to send good RAM back to Micron. The manual
says that the motherboard only supports 60 and 70ns RAM, but 50ns is, er,
"upwards"-compatible to 60ns, right?
Man, I just don't know. . . but I'm getting really tired of having to
turn my computer off and on 4-5 times just to get it to boot-up. Any and
all opinions/comments will be appreciated!
Thanks!
Brian
hu...@nospam.silcom.com (please remove the nospam!)
repo...@micron.net
Supermicro Tech Support advised me to use "parity" RAM in the P5STE and
to enable "ECC" in the bios. But experienced users of older versions of
this board have reported a loose nut on the voltage regulator can
sometimes be the culprit:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/l/a/lae2/locks/sm7locks.htm
http://209.25.22.119/mbbench.html
Brian Reynolds
[This followup was posted to alt.comp.hardware and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]
In article <01bd7650$ff3a1620$a81837a6@navas1>, JAMES...@MCIONE.COM
says...
> Hi:
> Is your CPU adequately cooled? CPUs can get "fussier" about temp. as they
> get older.
> Just a thought.
Yep. Thanks!
Great Sink/Fan combo from PC Power and Cooling. Plus, this happens at
startup first thing in the morning as often as not. . . that's pretty
quick to be a heat problem. :)
Thanks Again
JimNavas
Hi:
Is your CPU adequately cooled? CPUs can get "fussier" about temp. as they
get older.
Just a thought.
Cheers;
Jim Navas
Brian Reynolds <hu...@nospam.silcom.com> wrote in article
<MPG.fb58c3fa...@news.silcom.com>...
Ivan Strougatski
Try to upgrade firmware on your hard driuve (if you have not done so).
Firmware version must me 915.
>Here's my System Specs:
>
>Pentium 200 (No MMX)
>Supermicro P5-STE w/ 512k Rev 3 (?) motherboard
>64 MB 50ns RAM
>Matrox Millenium II w/ 4MB 250 RAMDAC
>Adaptec 2940UW
>Quantum Atlas 2.1 GB
>Plextor 8-Plex CD-ROM
>SB32 PnP
>Roland SCC-1 MIDI Card
>
>The BIOS settings are optimal/safe according to Megatrends. Nothing
>fancy.
>
Mate
Using a Supermicro motherboard does that to you <BG>.
Seriously, I doubt it's the memory. Since you already replaced the video card
and the memory and the problem still exist, we know that those components are
not causing the problem. What you have to do is to start the elimination
process. Do the followings and start up your PC at each step to see, if
anything changes. Remove, I mean physically remove them:
1.) Midi card
2.) SB32 card
3.) Hard drive, obviously you'll need another one
4.) SCSI card, put in an IDE hard drive
5.) CPU, borrow a "known good"
6.) Motherboard, and the winner is..... <BG>.
You could reverse this procedure and start your PC, with the minimum required
ie. motherboard, memory, video card, and hard drive and add the components
one by one. If you have a modem, then take that out also.
My guess would be the motherboard, more specifically the cashe. It could be
your hard drive also. I doubt it's the CPU. Since you re-installed Windows
numerous times, I assumed you did scan the hard drive for errors and it
showed no problems. The way Windows acts does sound like a hardware problem,
or conflict. Under device manager, check if you have any conflict in memory
address', I/O address.
Good luck,
Mate
Brandon
Sounds like the hard drive is getting ready to go. Run a 'thorough'
scandisk. If you can, clone what you have to a different one, so that
you have all the same parameters, and see how the new one runs.
Make sure it's the same interface.
Brandon
>Here's my System Specs:
>
>Pentium 200 (No MMX)
>Supermicro P5-STE w/ 512k Rev 3 (?) motherboard
>64 MB 50ns RAM
>Matrox Millenium II w/ 4MB 250 RAMDAC
>Adaptec 2940UW
>Quantum Atlas 2.1 GB
>Plextor 8-Plex CD-ROM
>SB32 PnP
>Roland SCC-1 MIDI Card
>
>The BIOS settings are optimal/safe according to Megatrends. Nothing
>fancy.
>
>I'm stumped, and don't want to send good RAM back to Micron. The manual
>says that the motherboard only supports 60 and 70ns RAM, but 50ns is, er,
>"upwards"-compatible to 60ns, right?
>
>Man, I just don't know. . . but I'm getting really tired of having to
>turn my computer off and on 4-5 times just to get it to boot-up. Any and
>all opinions/comments will be appreciated!
>
>Thanks!
>
Wizard
The obvious thing to do is put your old Mem and video card back in and
troubleshoot from there. You've introduce way too many variables all at once.
Brian Reynolds
In article <354C61AD...@nh.ultranet.com>,
davicom...@nh.ultranet.com says...
> The obvious thing to do is put your old Mem and video card back in and
> troubleshoot from there. You've introduce way too many variables all at once.
Thanks. . . if only I still had the old parts. Since this problem came
about gradually, I had already sold those away. :(
But, yeah, that would be best. Might have to bite the bullet and either
ask to borrow some RAM/video cards, or something from a friend.
Thanks Again,
Brian
Alan
Well I would guess that if your problem is related to one of the two
upgrades that you just preformed.
Here is what I would do - Take the vidio card and ram back out.
then once it is back to original make sure that everything works ok.
If it works ok then install vidio card - make sure everything works ok.
then install ram - check again.
what will probably happen is when you reinstall you problem component
you will start to have the problem again.
However, if for some reason that you restore everything to its original
state and you still have the problem - its safe to say that these are
not your problem
William Lahr
You mentioned this started after you installed the new video card. What
happens if you use your old card? Does it hang? If Win95 hangs while you
see the Win95 logo, it can be caused by a flakey video driver. I had
this happen when an NT driver was accidentally installed in the system
instead of a Win95 driver. It would get to the opening screen, the
everything would lock up solid. I deleted the old NT driver inf,
reinstalled the Win95 driver, and everything worked fine.
--
-----Bill Lahr-----
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
mr....@pcmagic.net
(Remove NO_SPAM for e-mail reply.)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Kestrel
<snipped>
Try disabling the Paralell port in the BIOS, I know it seems strange
but it worked for me once.
Kestrel
I came, I saw, I ran!
Rodney Gray
Possibly you power supply is having a little problem handling the start-up
current. Just a thought.
Brian Reynolds <hu...@nospam.silcom.com> wrote in article
<MPG.fb58c3fa...@news.silcom.com>...
la...@psu.edu
>*Changed video card to Matrox Millenium II w/ 4MB 250 RAMDAC
>*Upgraded from 32MB 60ns RAM to 64MB 50ns RAM
Are you using Matrox 3.80? Revert to the "Standard VGA Driver" and
test the boot. Consider using an earlier driver.
>I'm inclined to think it's the RAM. This is what I've done to rememdy
>the situation (to no avail):
>The BIOS settings are optimal/safe according to Megatrends. Nothing
>fancy.
Is the Crucial memory Parity ECC? If so, turn off ECC test and use
ECC integrity. The optimum setting for Turn Around Insertion varies
according to memory type and bios version. Try reversing your current
setting. Conservative timing is BR/BW = X444/X444 and lead in
7/6/3/4. Possibly, you have a flakey simm. Try swapping simm sockets
for the pair. For academic reasons, try reseating them before
swapping.
>
>Man, I just don't know. . . but I'm getting really tired of having to
>turn my computer off and on 4-5 times just to get it to boot-up.
Try aiming a hair dryer into your case for 5 min before attempting
power up. Don't cook anything. You might have a "cold" problem.
Safer yet, does the sytem boot after it has been on for awhile?
Does the system boot to safe mode? Press F8 immediately after the
Adaptec BIOS load. Choose "create Bootlog". Given that the boot
fails, boot next from a floppy and rename bootlog.txt to be certain it
does not get modified before you have a chance to read it. Tell us
where the boot fails. If it fails on IOS, there are possible
solutions linked to your multimedia configuration and a W95
limitation.
Another possibility is that the VR heatsink vibrated loose. Tighten
if indicated.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/l/a/lae2/locks/sm7locks.htm
Starbuck
Hmmm.... have you checked your harddrive for physical errors lately.
Same thing happens with my roomates old 486. Our solution???? He
hasn't turned it off for about 6 months.......
-Starbuck
Brian Reynolds
> Is your CPU adequately cooled? CPUs can get "fussier" about temp. as they
> get older.
> Just a thought.
>
> Cheers;
>
> Jim Navas
>
> <MPG.fb58c3fa...@news.silcom.com>...
> > Please forgive the crosspost, but I wanted to get a good cross-reference
> > of opinions. Thanks!
> >
> > If anyone would please cc me by email when they respond, I would greatly
> > appreciate it. My ISPs news server has been flakey of late!
> >
> > Well. . . to start, here's the problem:
> >
> > About 4 out of 5 times, when I turn on my machine, everything works fine
> > until just past the "Starting Windows 95. . ." part. Then, it goes to
> > the Windows 95 Logo Screen and locks up there. The hard drive LED
> > illuminates and stays that way solidly and there is nothing to be done
> > but turn the power off and on again (or hit the hard-reset button).
> >
> > Now, here's where it gets strange: This used to only happen one out of
> > ten times, if that, and sometimes would not happen for weeks. But
> > lately, it's gotten more and more common.
> >
had sold to a co-worker. After putting it back in, everything appears to
be fine. 20 restarts without a hitch!
So, I guess the culprit in order of likelihood would have to be:
1) My motherboard couldn't handle 50ns RAM. I always thought that they
would adjust up to 60ns, but a few emails and posts have said otherwise.
2) The new simms did not get along with some part of my computer,
despite being the same brand as the old simms.
Oh well, again, thanks. . . it's too bad I don't have 64 MB anymore (32MB
now), but the difference ain't worth the frustration. My coworker is
gonna take the 50ns stuff off my hands.
Best Regards,
Brian
> > I built this system myself over a year ago and until around December, I
> > never had any problems with it.
> >
> > A bootlog of the failed boot-ups show that it just gets past the setver
> > part and then stops. Normally, it would have loaded VMM (which despite
> > my first impression, I hear stands for something like Virtual Machine
> > Manager rather than Virtual Memory Manager).
> >
> > Now right around the time this system started giving me troubles, I did
> > two things.
> >
> > *Changed video card to Matrox Millenium II w/ 4MB 250 RAMDAC
> > *Upgraded from 32MB 60ns RAM to 64MB 50ns RAM
> >
> > I'm inclined to think it's the RAM. This is what I've done to rememdy
> > the situation (to no avail):
> >
mar...@tdi.net
I'm pretty sure that 50 ns RAM is NOT backward compatible to a motherboard
that only supports up to 60 ns RAM (50 is faster than 60)
>> I'm stumped, and don't want to send good RAM back to Micron. The manual
>> says that the motherboard only supports 60 and 70ns RAM, but 50ns is, er,
>> "upwards"-compatible to 60ns, right?
>>