Correct way to remove thermal paste (aka thermal grease)
João Jerónimo
frequently. So, I'm going to remove the heat sink, clean the dirt from
the sink, and in the process, I also want to apply new thermal paste.
However, I have some problems:
1. First of all, the instructions that came with the CPU package (the
processor is still in warranty) say that I need to read the document
"Thermal Cooling Guideline" from AMD website, which has a list of
approved thermal interface materials (i.e. thermal paste), without which
I risk loosing the warranty. However, I haven't found any document with
that name in AMD's website. Do you know why?
2. On the other hand, I did find a document named "Instructions on how
to remove the heat sink/fan provided with a PIB processor"[1], which too
includes a table of approved thermal greases. This guide says that,
after removing the heat sink from the processor, I need to "clean the
residual thermal grease from its base using a dry wipe", and goes
further, saying that I should "avoid using wet chemicals such as acetone
or alcohol as these chemicals can cause contaminants to flow into the
socket area". However, every other article I can find on the net about
removing thermal paste says that it's correct to use alcohol. A
Wikipedia article [2] says "The preferred way to remove typical silicone
oil-based thermal grease from a component or heat sink is by using
isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). If none is available, pure acetone
is also a valid method of removal.". What's, after all, the correct way
to remove the thermal paste from the processor?
Thanks in advance,
João Jerónimo
[1]
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CPU7-HSFRemovalInstructions.aspx
- This document is for Opteron, but I hope there's nothing wrong in
applying it to Phenom too.
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_grease#Application_and_removal
Timothy Daniels
> Hello. My AMD Phenom (3x) CPU has recently been overheating very frequently. So, I'm going to remove the heat sink,
> clean the dirt from the sink, and in the process, I also want to apply new thermal paste. However, I have some
> problems:
>
> 1. First of all, the instructions that came with the CPU package (the processor is still in warranty) say that I need
> to read the document "Thermal Cooling Guideline" from AMD website, which has a list of approved thermal interface
> materials (i.e. thermal paste), without which I risk loosing the warranty. However, I haven't found any document with
> that name in AMD's website. Do you know why?
>
Could this be it:?
"AMD Thermal, Mechanical, and Chassis Cooling Design Guide"
http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/23794.pdf
Here's an interesting article on thermal grease vs. thermal pads:
"Thermal Interface Material Comparison: Thermal Pads vs. Thermal Grease"
http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/23794.pdf
*TimDaniels*
RayLopez99
wrote:
> Thanks in advance,
> Jo o Jer nimo
>
> [1]http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CPU7-HSFRemovalInstruction...
> - This document is for Opteron, but I hope there's nothing wrong in
> applying it to Phenom too.
>
> [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_grease#Application_and_removal
Don't worry about alcohol. Use a Q-tip (cotton tipped plastic used to
clean ears, if you're not American) and soak it with alcohol. Then
use it to clean the grease. You should use up a half box but it will
ensure you don't spill too much. Also don't put too much grease
(Arctic Silver is a popular brand) so it overflows over the edges--
they say if you do that, the heat transfer is actually less than
optimal. Finally, now that you have the CPU fan off, spray some WD-40
silicon lubrication in the bearings--and let it dry thoroughly (even a
few hours). Then blow out any oil with compressed air and let it dry
again for a few hours. Then install.
I did the above and had no problems.
RL
Paul
There is a cleaning kit you can get.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100010
If you remove the processor from the socket and keep it away from
the socket area, then you're not going to get fluid in it.
All you have to do, is avoid pouring cleaning fluid all over
it. Apply some cleaner to a cloth, then use the cloth to clean
off the paste.
I use isopropyl alcohol, but it's not really the right solvent.
Some pre-applied materials, are harder to remove, and require
mechanical action. Using a solvent isn't enough, and you'll
have to scrape the material off. Once you switch over
to a thermal grease product when reassembling, it'll be easier
to clean off in the future.
The recommend procedure for removal is:
1) Run the computer. Use CPUBurn or Prime95, to make the CPU hot.
2) Shut down the computer, turn off the power at the back, unplug it.
3) Now, attempt to remove the heatsink/fan assembly, while
the processor is still warm. Give the heatsink a slight
twist, to help loosen the assembly. Sometimes, the thermal
interface material, holds very tightly, and it is hard to
get it to release. If it's a bit warm, it might be
easier to remove.
HTH,
Paul
Man-wai Chang
> clean ears, if you're not American) and soak it with alcohol. Then
> use it to clean the grease. You should use up a half box but it will
Toilet tissues will do. NO need to waste cotton-tipped plastic! :)
--
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Loren Pechtel
The second link is wrong.
Timothy Daniels
Here it is:
"Thermal Interface Material Comparison: Thermal Pads vs. Thermal Grease"
http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/26951.pdf
In answer to the question:
" How do I clean used thermal solution material off of my AMD® 64-Bit processor and heatsink/fan?",
check out the videos on "cleaning after heastsink removal":
http://support.amd.com/us/System-Building-and-Compatibility/Pages/ProcessorInstallationVideos.aspx
It recommends use of a "dry wipe" in an edge-to-center wiping action,
changing wipes frequently, and NON-USE of any liquid solvent.
This page (down at the bottom) lists some recommended thermal greases:
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CPU7-HSFRemovalInstructions.aspx
*TimDaniels*
Loren Pechtel
>On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 23:01:33 +0800, Man-wai Chang <toylet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>|> Don't worry about alcohol. Use a Q-tip (cotton tipped plastic used to
>|> clean ears, if you're not American) and soak it with alcohol. Then
>|> use it to clean the grease. You should use up a half box but it will
>|
>|Toilet tissues will do. NO need to waste cotton-tipped plastic! :)
>
>
>I use pre-moistened alcohol swabs myself...takes two or three. Then a flexible trowel from the art store(for oil paints) to work out a drop of
>arctic silver paste (about half the size of a pea) to cover the top of the CPU with the thinnest layer of paste possible. Takes a bit of time, but
>corrects the problem of the paste being squished out from between the CPU and heat sink to possibly touch the motherboard (BOOM - maybe).
Yup, alcohol swabs do a wonderful job.
larry moe 'n curly
João Jerónimo wrote:
Don't use acetone because it's nasty to many plastics. Here's a guide
about chemical compatibilitly:
http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/ChemComp.asp
Alcohol is actually pretty safe for cleaning electronics, and if you
don't want to spill any, apply it to a paper or cloth towel (not
tissue or toilet paper -- way too much lint) and wipe, rather than
apply it directly to the surfaces. But removing thermal paste isn't
critical unless you're going to replace it with glue.
You may want to phone AMD about the thermal material it currently
uses, and they may supply you with some more. I don't know what that
material is, but for my old retail boxed Athlon 4800+ and BE2300, it
was a clay-like material that would turn from solid to liquid (change
phase) at about 60 Celcius, such as Loctite's Powerstrate. Being
cheap, whenever I had to remove a heatsink with this kind of material
on it, I'd clean off the dust and lint and then reshape it with a
razor and hair dryer. If you can't clean it completely, get some new
stuff because you don't want a piece of lint or grit interfering with
the fit between the CPU and heatsink.
Do NOT try to lube fans with WD-40, which is mineral spirits, or
silicone lube. Use lithium grease on ball bearings (if unsealed;
otherwise you can't get to them), regular 5-10 weight machine oil on
sleeve bearings.
Man-wai Chang
I cleaned the CPU while it's still on the board (heatsink-fan removed).
--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.36
^ ^ 13:00:01 up 7 days 19:48 2 users load average: 0.01 0.42 0.75
Timothy Daniels
> [....]
> Do NOT try to lube fans with WD-40, which is mineral spirits, or
> silicone lube. Use lithium grease on ball bearings (if unsealed;
> otherwise you can't get to them), regular 5-10 weight machine oil on
> sleeve bearings.
What is the reason for avoiding mineral spirits (i.e. WD-40)?
I used WD-40 to lube my PC's case and power supply fan bearings
at its "five-year chekup", and they're still running quietly after another
5 years. I used just a little oil, though, so no oil ran out to the rotating
blades to get flung around the innards of the case, and I let the fans
sit idle for a few hours so that the lighter "carrier" oil would evaporate
before normal operation. Have I been dodging a bullet all these years?
*TimDaniels*
larry moe 'n curly
Timothy Daniels wrote:
.
Like the I-35W bridge.
WD-40/mineral spirits is too thin.
david
electrons to say:
WD-40 is not a lubricant. It is a water displacement agent.
Timothy Daniels
Its first listed purpose, according to the manufacturer's statements on
the spray can, is lubrication. It says that it lubricates moving parts, such
as hinges, wheels, rollers, chains, gears. That is not to say that it must be
a good *fan* lubricant, but the stuff *is* oily and slippery and non-
corrosive - features good for fan bearings, I'd imagine. I think that people
think that its apparent thinness is a bad sign for lubrication. But that low
viscosity changes as the thin carrier (perhaps kerosene), which allows it to
be sprayed and to penetrate into small crevices, evaporates to leave the
thicker oil behind. It may be significant that the *last* of its listed features
is moisture displacement.
*TimDaniels*
Timothy Daniels
>
> WD-40/mineral spirits is too thin.
Try leaving a puddle of it sitting on a glass-top
table or ceramic counter top for a day. You'll
see that it gradually thickens as the carrier solvent
evaporates. That technique has been used for
motocycle and bicycle chains since the early 70s
to allow penetration into the chain's sleeve bearings
and to then leave the thicker oil in place when the
thin carrier solvent evaporates. I believe Chain-lube
was the first company to market it after an engineering
grad student at USC thought up the idea and
presented it at an L.A. motorcycle show. No longer
did bikers have to soak their bike chains in a pan of
hot oil to lubricate them.
*TimDaniels*
GMAN
>
>
>Timothy Daniels wrote:
>..
fan. A good bearing grease or Mollylube or White Silicone Lubricant is best.
GMAN
take them 39 tries to finally get it right?
Timothy Daniels
> "larry moe 'n curly" wrote:
>>WD-40/mineral spirits is too thin.
> Agreed, WD40 most likely will clear out any of the good grease that is in the
> fan. A good bearing grease or Mollylube or White Silicone Lubricant is best.
"Mollylube" contains molybdenum disulfide particles - a solid - and
"silicone" lubricants contain similar solid particles for slow-moving parts
like springs and shock absorbers and control cables, etc. I have never
seen a recommendation for their use in fast-moving parts such as fan
bearings. For fast motion, mineral or synthetic oils are usually specified -
the faster the motion, the thinner the oil. For small cooling fans, the oil
used is probably not critical, and WD-40 has worked well for me so far.
Just don't spray it into the bearing housing. What I do is to use the end
of the plastic "wand" to apply just 2 drops of oil to the bearing and then
spin the fan by hand to distribute it over all the bearing surfaces, and then
I let it sit for a couple hours to let the carrier evaporate. But if you want
to use oil with black stuff or white stuff in it, go right ahead. It probably
does no harm as long as there is oil along with it.
*TimDaniels*
Timothy Daniels
"GMAN" wrote:
It could very well be true that it took the company 40 tries to develope
a lubricant that displaces moisture, and then for product differentiation
reasons they emphasize that feature. But they still market it as a lubricant.
Hey, the stuff in everywhere and we're not talking rocket specs here,
so why not use it? 3-in-1 oil is probably just as good, too. If you have
some Mobil One, you could use a drop or two of that just as well. Sheesh.
*TimDaniels*
Charlie Hoffpauir
WD-40 is *not* a lubricant. Although many people don't understand why,
it's been stated here and in several other news groups many times.
Here's a web page with more details on how to lubricate a computer
fan.... Note that the author of this pages states: "Do not, however,
use WD-40 or similar products. WD-40 is has great penetration,
displaces water well, and loosens rust - but it's a lousy lubricant.
It's mainly kerosene, and the oil that's left when the kerosene
evaporates may be more than adequate for stopping a gate-hinge from
squeaking, but won't last long in a fan bearing." (His grammar may not
be perfect... but his advice is.)
BTW, it's NOT my page... I just found it in a few seconds by googling.
http://www.dansdata.com/fanmaint.htm
--
Charlie Hoffpauir
Everything is what it is because it got that way....D'Arcy Thompson
RayLopez99
>
> > WD-40/mineral spirits is too thin.
>
> Try leaving a puddle of it sitting on a glass-top
> table or ceramic counter top for a day.
Good stuff, WD-40 is. A public company in SoCA makes it and I think
that's the only thing they make. Actually when I sprayed "WD-40" into
my CPU fan, and let it dry overnight after blowing it with compressed
air, it was a knockoff WD-40 that is sold only here in Greece (please
no bad puns) that was more like what locksmiths use--it had I think
Teflon particles in it (or so I imagined), and it was thicker than
WD-40, but it got the job done--no more noise. I was scared however
that I would short out something but luckily no excess oil was
present.
RL
Timothy Daniels
I wonder what this guy's credentials are to say that the base oil in
WD-40 "won't last long in a fan bearing". He got it right that there is
a non-lubricant carrier in it that evaporates, but what evidence does
he cite that the base oil isn't good for fans? Like most consumer
products, there's a lot of unsubstantiated opinions passed around as
"facts". But hey!, I own no stock in WD-40, so think what you want,
but I advise that you just give it a try and then report back. Personally,
with fans being to low-tech and cheap, I'd just use some 3-In-1 oil if
I had that around.
*TimDaniels*
david
electrons to say:
WD-40 was never intended to be a lubricant. Marketing people can put
whatever they want on the can, that doesn't make it true. WD-40 attracts
dirt, and over time will create a gummy gunk in your fan bearings.
Timothy Daniels
> WD-40 was never intended to be a lubricant.
Have you any documentation on that?
> Marketing people can put whatever they want on the can,
> that doesn't make it true.
> WD-40 attracts dirt, and over time will create a gummy
> gunk in your fan bearings.
How in the world would WD-40 "attract" dirt,
especially if you had reattached the protective label
over the bearing access hole?
*TimDaniels*
Timothy Daniels
> WD-40 was never intended to be a lubricant.
You're right that WD-40 wasn't developed to be a lubricant:
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/history/
"In 1953, a fledgling company called Rocket Chemical Company
and its staff of three set out to create a line of rust-prevention solvents
and degreasers for use in the aerospace industry, in a small lab in
San Diego, California.
"It took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked
out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret
formula for WD-40®-which stands for Water Displacement
perfected on the 40th try-is still in use today.
"Convair, an aerospace contractor, first used WD-40 to protect
the outer skin of the Atlas Missile from rust and corrosion."
And here are their claims for its 5 Basic Functions:
"THE FIVE BASIC FUNCTIONS:
"LUBRICATES: WD-40's lubricating ingredients are widely dispersed
and hold firmly to all moving parts.
"CLEANS: WD-40 gets under dirt, grime and grease to clean. It also
dissolves adhesives, allowing easy removal of labels, tape, stickers,
and excess bonding material.
"PROTECTS: WD-40 protects metal surfaces with corrosion-resistant
ingredients to shield against moisture and other corrosive elements.
"PENETRATES: WD-40 loosens rust-to-metal bonds and frees stuck,
frozen or rusted metal parts.
"DISPLACES MOISTURE: Because WD-40 displaces moisture,
it quickly dries out electrical systems to eliminate moisture-induced
short circuits."
WD-40 now also owns 3-In-One oil, and here's how they
say they differ:
"How is WD-40 different from 3-IN-ONE®?
"WD-40 is the ultimate multi-purpose problem solver.
WD-40 cleans/degreases, penetrates to loosen up stuck parts, prevents
corrosion and is a light lubricant.
3-IN-ONE, with it's special drip spout, enables you to lubricate without
any overspray or splatter. 3-IN-ONE is ideal to use on tools, rollers,
hinges, in-line skates, wheels...nearly everything that moves."
I'd say that either one is fine as a "light lubricant", such as for PC
cooling fans. If you want something with more viscosity, try T.A.L. 5,
also a WD-40 product. I've used T.A.L. 5 on my bathroom fan that
has a sintered bronze sleeve bearing, with good results - it has run for
four years with no squeals or other noise since the last lubrication,
and the fan had been used for 5 years before that when I lubed it.
*TimDaniels*
david
electrons to say:
> "david" wrote:
Well, clearly you're set on doing what you want to do, so just do it, and
good luck with it. Don't worry about anyone that might have had some
experience with it.
RayLopez99
> > How in the world would WD-40 "attract" dirt,
> > especially if you had reattached the protective label over the bearing
> > access hole?
>
> > *TimDaniels*
>
> Well, clearly you're set on doing what you want to do, so just do it, and
> good luck with it. Don't worry about anyone that might have had some
> experience with it.
FUD noted. I also note that if you let your thermal grease sit too
long on your PC chip, as in 10 years as in my case, it will crack, the
crack will collect dust, and you'll get less than optimal heat
transfer between chip and chip fan. Eventually the crack will
propagate and the fan will sit loose on the chip as there will be a
layer of dirt, not grease, between chip and fan. So do check your fan-
to-chip connection, and if the PC has been in use for close to a
decade, reseal it with new thermal grease. And now that you've got
the CPU fan off, give it a spray of WD-40, let it dry, and reseat it.
And I speak from practical experience.
RL