"neat" & "cheap" way to safeguard against plugging USB into 1394 - please help

[Adam]

Motherboard manuals "repeatedly" warn against
plugging USB into 1394 and vice versa ...

"Never connect a USB cable to the IEEE 1394a connector.
Doing so will damage the motherboard!"

http://forums.anandtech.com/archive/index.php/t-1735341.html

What's a "neat" & "cheap" way to prevent against
accidentally plugging USB into 1394 on mobo?

1) Tape up the 1394 header, which may leave a sticky mess, until it is
needed.
2) Is there such thing as a 1394 protective cover (analogous to outlet
cover)?
3) Other?

[Bert]

In news:k6ucp3$nlu$1...@news.albasani.net "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com>
wrote:

> 2) Is there such thing as a 1394 protective cover (analogous to
> outlet cover)?

Howabout a cable-end female connector with no cable? It doesn't even
have to cover all the pins.

--
Bert be...@iphouse.com

[Mike Easter]

Dust cap/cover

1394 Firewire Plastic Dust Caps http://www.vpi.us/usb-1394-covers.html



--
Mike Easter

[Ken Blake, MVP]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:50:26 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:

>
> Motherboard manuals "repeatedly" warn against
> plugging USB into 1394 and vice versa ...
>
> "Never connect a USB cable to the IEEE 1394a connector.
> Doing so will damage the motherboard!"
>
> http://forums.anandtech.com/archive/index.php/t-1735341.html
>
> What's a "neat" & "cheap" way to prevent against
> accidentally plugging USB into 1394 on mobo?
>
> 1) Tape up the 1394 header, which may leave a sticky mess, until it is
> needed.

Whether you get a sticky mess depends on what kind of tape you use.
Use masking tape and that shouldn't be a problem.

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP

[Adam]

"Mike Easter" <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in message
news:affsfs...@mid.individual.net...

> Adam wrote:
>> Motherboard manuals "repeatedly" warn against
>> plugging USB into 1394 and vice versa ...
>>
>> "Never connect a USB cable to the IEEE 1394a connector.
>> Doing so will damage the motherboard!"
>>
>> http://forums.anandtech.com/archive/index.php/t-1735341.html
>>
>> What's a "neat" & "cheap" way to prevent against
>> accidentally plugging USB into 1394 on mobo?
>>
>> 1) Tape up the 1394 header, which may leave a sticky mess, until it is
>> needed.
>> 2) Is there such thing as a 1394 protective cover (analogous to outlet

>> plug/cover)?

>> 3) Other?
>
> Dust cap/cover
>
> 1394 Firewire Plastic Dust Caps http://www.vpi.us/usb-1394-covers.html
>
> --
> Mike Easter

Thanks (to all), the 1394 FireWire Dust Covers here ...
(http://www.vpi.us/usb-1394-covers.html#cvr-1394)
will be perfect if they fit. Located right next to
the 1394 port connector is a front panel audio connector,
which may keep it from fitting. Here's the (in transit) mobo ...
http://files2.pugetsystems.com/files/2207/parts/Motherboard/Asus-SABERTOOTH-990FX-7777/E6674_SABERTOOTH_990FX_V2_u.pdf
Hope to cover & label the 1394 port connector.

[SC Tom]

"Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote in message
news:k6unp4$jd2$1...@news.albasani.net...

Nice board :-)!
--
SC Tom

[Adam]

"SC Tom" <s...@tom.net> wrote in message news:k6v0le$nap$1...@dont-email.me...

Thanks, that's why I need to protect it. :-)

[Tecknomage]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:50:26 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:

>

WHAT!

This has to be a bogus problem, USB and FireWire (aka 1394)
connectors/plugs are totally different. See below links and plug
diagrams.

FireWire (IEEE 1394):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire

USB:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB



--
=========== Tecknomage ===========
Computer Systems Specialist
IT Technician
(retired)
San Diego, CA

[Paul]

Tecknomage wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:50:26 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote:
>
>> Motherboard manuals "repeatedly" warn against
>> plugging USB into 1394 and vice versa ...
>>
>> "Never connect a USB cable to the IEEE 1394a connector.
>> Doing so will damage the motherboard!"
>>
>> http://forums.anandtech.com/archive/index.php/t-1735341.html
>>
>> What's a "neat" & "cheap" way to prevent against
>> accidentally plugging USB into 1394 on mobo?
>>
>> 1) Tape up the 1394 header, which may leave a sticky mess, until it is
>> needed.
>> 2) Is there such thing as a 1394 protective cover (analogous to outlet
>> cover)?
>> 3) Other?
>>
>
>
> WHAT!
>
> This has to be a bogus problem, USB and FireWire (aka 1394)
> connectors/plugs are totally different. See below links and plug
> diagrams.
>
> FireWire (IEEE 1394):
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire
>
> USB:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB

OK, let's look at the OPs manual (his second post). This
is just an Asus motherboard, so there's nothing magic about
the file coming from pugetsystems. You can get this file
off the Asus support.asus.com site if you want.

http://files2.pugetsystems.com/files/2207/parts/Motherboard/Asus-SABERTOOTH-990FX-7777/E6674_SABERTOOTH_990FX_V2_u.pdf

The warning is with respect to USB 2x5 and Firewire 1394 2x5 headers.
They look physically the same, and have one pin removed for keying.

(Look at the bottom of page 2-23 and compare to the top of page 2-24.)

If a person is assembling their own motherboard inside a computer
case, at some point, they connect the front panel USB and Firewire
cables. Those cables could have the same style of 2x5 connector.
And then, there is a danger the user could connect the wrong
cable up. It would mean, potentially, that 12V would show up on
the USB front panel connector. Or 5V show up on the Firewire front
panel connector.

The warning in the manual, is not about the connectors in the I/O plate
area. Although I could sympathize with a wish to put dust
caps in things you have no intention of using. Just like
the TOSLink rear connector on some motherboards, has a dust
cap on it from the factory.

Paul

[Adam]

"Paul" <nos...@needed.com> wrote in message
news:k70qb3$qnj$1...@dont-email.me...

Thanks (Guru Paul), your posts are always so concise, precise and thorough
too.

[Adam]

"Bert" <be...@iphouse.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA0FEB8B997A...@216.250.188.140...

Just received my mobo yesterday.
The 1394 port connector turns out to be
a 9-pin boxed male header connector that looks like ...
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8506
And, the electronics shop had the matching connector ...
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10650
which worked out perfectly. Thanks!

[glee]

"Paul" <nos...@needed.com> wrote in message
news:k70qb3$qnj$1...@dont-email.me...

If you're building your own system / working at the mobo level, you look
at the manual to see which headers are USB and which are Firewire
(assuming they are not already marked as such on the PCB). I have been
building computers for some years and this seems like a far-fetched
problem that would occur only if someone was lazy and did not check
which header was which.... in which case they should stay out of the
computer's innards!
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+

[Paul]

glee wrote:

>
> If you're building your own system / working at the mobo level, you look
> at the manual to see which headers are USB and which are Firewire
> (assuming they are not already marked as such on the PCB). I have been
> building computers for some years and this seems like a far-fetched
> problem that would occur only if someone was lazy and did not check
> which header was which.... in which case they should stay out of the
> computer's innards!

When Firewire headers were first introduced, they avoided this
problem, by making the header something like a 1x9. Nothing
like a 2x5 at all. And then, no danger of hooking up the
wrong stuff. Later on, they changed the connector.

The computer industry try to make the connectors, so mis-mating
is less likely. The 2x5 audio header has the keying pin in a
different position than the 2x5 USB header. So again, it's not
an ideal situation, but at least someone half-awake would
notice the keying problem when comparing those 2x5 connectors.
Properly designed computer case cable assemblies, would have
blocking plugs in the keying pin location.

But when two connector types are made *identical* , that's
irresponsible engineering. If I was the engineer who
thought this up, I wouldn't be proud of myself.

Sure, the installer should be omniscient. And we can always
blame the person installing, if it ends in a "puff of smoke".

As an omniscient, you probably also know that a significant number
of computer cases, have actually been mis-wired on the front panel.
Do you ever buzz out the wiring on the computer you're building,
to verify it ? I have. The secret here, is companies that make
computer cases are "metal bangers". They have no electrical
engineers on staff, and they buy cable assemblies from a
third party, without checking them. If the installer doesn't
verify the wiring, the end user could end up blowing a
$1000 camcorder on the front Firewire port, on the first try.

*******

To give you an idea of the extraordinary lengths you have to
go to, to use electronics, take my current situation.

I have a multimeter, with an RS232 interface. Now, the problem
is, if I connect to the computer, there's a potential the
meter is now referenced to the ground of the computer. If
I plug the meter probes into 120VAC say, to measure
house voltage and have the computer record the readings, there
could be a "puff of smoke" inside my computer.
(I worry about stuff like this.)

I consulted the multimeter manual. Read the RS232 section.
No mention of "optically isolated RS232 port". Using
the model number, Googled the stupid thing. No mention
by any users, that the thing was optically isolated.
I had to trace down a schematic for the multimeter, and
note the presence of two small chips on RS232. And
then I knew, it was optically isolated, and safe
to connect the multimeter to anything I want, while
connected to the computer. So the path
between the meter and computer, is protected by
a LED and phototransistor, which breaks the dangerous
copper path by instead using light for communications.

(RadioShack 22-168A a.k.a. Metex M3650D RS-232 optoisolation)

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1869/optoisolate.gif

(Picture of typical 817 chip)

http://www.kwantlen.ca/science/physics/faculty/dpeirce/notes/envi2307/lab10/ACtoDCad/PC817optoisolator.png

The thing is, this is a "feature", a safety feature,
and should be proudly documented in the user manual
(as a way to justify the purchase price of the meter).

*******

Between documentation and design, there's still a long
ways to go, to making good product. So somebody else
doesn't have to be omniscient.

"om nis cient - having complete or unlimited knowledge,
awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things"

Yeah, right. Be ready for that puff of smoke :-)
Learn to run fast...

Paul

[glee]

"Paul" <nos...@needed.com> wrote in message

news:k78omf$irl$1...@dont-email.me...
> snip

> But when two connector types are made *identical* , that's
> irresponsible engineering. If I was the engineer who
> thought this up, I wouldn't be proud of myself.
>
> Sure, the installer should be omniscient. And we can always
> blame the person installing, if it ends in a "puff of smoke".
>
> As an omniscient, you probably also know that a significant number
> of computer cases, have actually been mis-wired on the front panel.

> snip of extraneous info

I never said I was omniscient, and omniscience has nothing to do with
checking which header is for which type device, no matter what they look
like. I also never said or implied it was good engineering.

Yes, I've seen some miswired front panels, which is why I check them...
but I doubt most people do.

[Hot-Text]

"Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> wrote in message news:k6ucp3$nlu$1...@news.albasani.net...

1394 = Firewire
it not a USB

if you connect a USB cable,
in to a Firewire inlet,

You will damage the USB plug,
and or Motherboard
and or have a House Firer...


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