cpu: OEM vs retail

[dilbert firestorm]

what's the difference between OEM & retail version of the CPU?
--
Dilbert Firestorm

remove *byteme* to email me

[Al Drake]

On 7/26/2015 2:22 AM, dilbert firestorm wrote:
> what's the difference between OEM & retail version of the CPU

I think the OEM will not include heat sink and fan and may have
shorter warenty. Just the chip. Not box or sticker maybe. That's the pay
I've gotten some.

[Paul]

dilbert firestorm wrote:
> what's the difference between OEM & retail version of the CPU?

We have to be a little careful in your case,
because you've been asking questions about
OEM versus retail operating systems too :-)

CPUs also have "white box" or "OEM" version,
versus a "retail boxed" CPU.

The difference can be whether a cooler is
included.

The absolutely cheapest packaging they can use,
is "tray". The CPU comes in a transparent anti-static
container. That's the minimum thing they can give you.
I have received CPUs with no more packaging than that.
My AthlonXP came in the anti-static plastic package
with no other labeling.

Boxed processors can come with a CPU and a heatsink/fan
assembly. Usually the heatsink type, isn't all that
efficient. For example, my Core2 processor came with
an aluminum cooler, with no heatpipes on it. On some
of the higher power CPUs, they may have actually included
a cooler with heatpipes. But for the most part, if you
want an efficient cooler (keeps down peak CPU temperature),
then that is a third-party cooler and a separate purchase.

In the case of a Core2 Duo (like E4700), the in-box cooler
is plenty. In the case of a Q6600, you might want slightly
better cooling, as that one is a quad with a higher TDP
rating in watts.

The heatsink/fan can cost as much as $100 for a good one.
And the mass of the assembly can actually exceed the
"allowed" value for the thing. This is an issue if
you plan on kicking the computer case with your foot.
An extra-heavy cooling solution, can also put strain
on the board, and (eventually) damage a solder joint,
depending on how extreme it is. Generally, only third-party
coolers will be above the acceptable weight range. The
in-box cooler, if provided, should be below the max
weight.

And the champ for being silly, is this CPU. It draws
220W, and comes with its own water cooling system in
the box. No cheesy heatpipe cooler for this one :-)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113351

You can also get that CPU in the "tray" version, but
it still comes in a box. Since these are intended for
enthusiast purchasers, the box has to be "pretty".

https://www.alternate.de/p/230x230/h/AMD_FX_9590@@ha9a02.jpg

*******

Due to the mix of terminologies, it's best to use
the part number a seller lists, as a means of
tracking down what might be included. The part
number (like on Intel), might allow you to
tell the difference between box and tray.

http://ark.intel.com
http://products.amd.com
(http://www.cpu-world.com for additional details when needed)

Not every CPU that comes in a box, guarantees
that a cooler is present in there. It's up to you
to check and double-check, that if you need a
cooler, that one is provided.

And while you might think that shopping for a cooler
is trivial, it really depends on how old the CPU is,
as to how easy it will be to find a cooler for it.

Paul

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 26/7/15 2:22 PM, dilbert firestorm wrote:
> what's the difference between OEM & retail version of the CPU?

OEM usually means no box, no beautiful packaging, no manual.... which
roughtly translates to lower prices.

Be careful, though, as some sells 2nd-hand CPU as new OEM ones.

[Al Drake]

So how do you tell?

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 26/7/15 8:21 PM, Al Drake wrote:
>> Be careful, though, as some sells 2nd-hand CPU as new OEM ones.
>
> So how do you tell?

You bet, Your Poi!! :)
Or you can find someone that can be trusted to help you, Your Poi!

[dilbert firestorm]

ok that makes sense!

[dilbert firestorm]

ok thanx for the info.

well, lets see... QX6850 quad core

[dilbert firestorm]

if you know the part #, I think its how you can tell.

[dilbert firestorm]

Poi???

[dilbert firestorm]

On 7/26/2015 6:29 AM, Paul wrote:

> dilbert firestorm wrote:
>> what's the difference between OEM & retail version of the CPU?
>
> We have to be a little careful in your case,
> because you've been asking questions about
> OEM versus retail operating systems too :-)

ah.. you noticed!! :D

yeah, i'm making what's probably my 1st motherboard upgrade purchase in
10-15 years for my OS/2 machine which was on the Pentium 3 1ghz mobo.

[Paul]

http://ark.intel.com/products/30789/Intel-Core2-Extreme-Processor-QX6850-8M-Cache-3_00-GHz-1333-MHz-FSB

FSB1333

That would be a poor choice for the Asrock board, if
that's the motherboard you're still interested in.
The Q6600 is more the style of the Asrock board
(FSB1066). The Q6700 is marginally better, but
likely fewer for sale (some people still use them).

If the motherboard FSB doesn't go high enough,
then you cannot run the CPU at its rated clock speed.
It would run slower than normal. The QX6850 is a 130W
processor at 3GHz. The power would drop a bit, if
underclocked.

The Intel page says the processor is available "boxed"
or "in tray".

The "boxed" heatsink is pretty dinky looking. I'd go
aftermarket in this case, and pick up another cooler.
And that's assuming you use a better motherboard
for the job, than the Asrock VIA one. You need a
board with FSB1333 capability.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/INTEL-HEATSINK-COOLING-FAN-CORE-2-EXTREME-QX6700-QX6800-QX6850-LGA775-NEW-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqV,!ikE9STIK,yNBPWBMjRJ2!~~60_57.JPG

The highest FSB of that generation, is FSB1600,
and there were some motherboards that go that
high. But for the most part, FSB1333 was the
practical upper end for LGA775.

I've only used dual core processors on LGA775,
and never had a problem with thermals on those.
The E4700 (65W) processor used 36W max. The
E8400 was maybe 43W or so. At least for the
dual processors, they weren't making it all the
way to 65W.

Checking the CPU compatibility chart for the
motherboard, also hints at the max power the
VCore regulator can provide. If there were
absolutely no 130W processors in the list,
you would then wonder if the regulator could
handle such a situation.

The Q6600 or Q6700 would be good choices
for the Asrock. My P5E motherboard (when I
bought it, boards were getting hard to find),
it might be a candidate for the QX6800. As
my board is smothered with silly heatsinks.
And never gets more than luke-warm.

This is the cooler on my current system (LGA775).
You have to clean the fins around once a year.
Dust buildup. Cooler_Master_Geminii-S. It
bolts to a backing plate. If you drop the PC
out a second story window, the computer case
would be destroyed, but the heatsink will still
be attached to the motherboard. I can use
a cooler like this, because the computer case
has a removable motherboard tray. (The whole
motherboard can be removed from the other side
of the PC. The cooler can already be in place.)

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/cooling/Best_CPU_Coolers_Q3-2008/Cooler_Master_Geminii-S_Front.jpg

Paul

[dilbert firestorm]

I did not consider the fsb when I was speccing the mobo. AGP 8x was the
requirement and was looking for a cpu with 3.0ghz that could run on the
asrock mobo. QX6850 is certainly the upper limit that could be run on
the mobo. could have gone with qx6800, but its not quite 3.0. :D

I don't think I will find a mobo with fsb1333 with agp 8x spec.

Overclocking is not a big deal as this is for the OS/2 machine.

its a different story when I get around to building a modern up-to-date
win7 machine which will most likely to be overclocked. :D

[dilbert firestorm]

On 7/27/2015 3:41 AM, Paul wrote:

> This is the cooler on my current system (LGA775).
> You have to clean the fins around once a year.
> Dust buildup. Cooler_Master_Geminii-S. It
> bolts to a backing plate. If you drop the PC
> out a second story window, the computer case
> would be destroyed, but the heatsink will still
> be attached to the motherboard. I can use
> a cooler like this, because the computer case
> has a removable motherboard tray. (The whole
> motherboard can be removed from the other side
> of the PC. The cooler can already be in place.)
>
> http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/cooling/Best_CPU_Coolers_Q3-2008/Cooler_Master_Geminii-S_Front.jpg
>
>
> Paul

nice looking fan!

[Paul]

You should realize that Intel was cynical when they
arranged their FSB values. They're not "accidental"
values or "golly-gee" values, they were introduced
to disadvantage certain parties and advantage others.
Intel doesn't do anything, without a business angle.

You will notice that Intel stopped increasing the
FSB at some point. Why ? I'm sure, given any kind of
incentive at all, they could have continued to push
that skyward. Look at AMD's progression on Hypertransport
for inspiration.

For the Asrock board, I would select a Q6700 as the
best reasonable choice for a processor. That's a quad
at 2.66GHz. The Q6600 at 2.4GHz, might be more available.
Many people continue to use those processors.

If you want more than that, it means an Intel chipset
and a PCI Express slot for your video card. Presumably
your attachment to AGP, is related to some software
issue. In my case, a 7900 card at $65, was my transition
card. It's PCI Express, but had drivers for an older OS.
I could run Win2K on my Core2 machine (two core limit).

If you had to, you could use a PCI video card. But
that would hurt. I have one of those, purchased so I
could flash the VESA BIOS on an AGP video card. The
PCI video card allowed me to look at the screen,
while the flash of the AGP card was ongoing. The
only time the PCI video card "stutters", is dragging
a QuickTime player window across the screen. Almost
everything else was still usable.

With the Asrock board and an AGP video card,
I was able to install Win98SE. Mainly as a joke.
Compared to my first experience with Win98,
it was screaming fast, even though Win98 could
only use one of the two CPU cores on the E4700.
The E4700 is an FSB800 processor. If you
boost the FSB to FSB1066, that's how you get
your 3GHz CPU :-) Unfortunately, you need to
boost VCore to do it (and the Asrock board
just isn't set up well for that).

You'll notice I've been through this process
too. Only it happened a few years ago.

My E4700 and E8400 used to "feel the same". The
only time the E4700 would "stink", is when running
7ZIP ultra compression. 7ZIP gets some advantage
from the cache. Not much but enough to squeeze a
small speedup over the E4700. But for virtually
everything else, the 2.6GHz E4700 was equally useful.

The only reason I ditched the Asrock setup, is
installing my WinTV tuner card turned the motherboard
into jello. (That's a VIA PCI bug that's been around
for years, and the automated BIOS patch for it,
ruins just about every aspect of motherboard
operation. And there is no BIOS switch to turn
it off!). With the WinTV card installed in the
computer (BT878 chip), the hard drive I/O rate
drops to 20-30MB/sec. Slow... The tuner card
works fine, but there's no bandwidth left in
the computer to do anything. With the card
pulled, performance returns to normal. I'm
still using that card in this computer - I have
an STB that connects to the WinTV card, and that
allows the computer to be my "TV set". I use
DScaler with the card, as my viewer application.

Paul

[Al Drake]

Sorry if I seem to be missing something but what does the part # have to
do with it being "second hand" as apposed to sitting on a shelf
somewhere and never sold? I have a few old processors I never got
around to installing.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 27/7/15 7:53 PM, Al Drake wrote:
> Sorry if I seem to be missing something but what does the part # have to
> do with it being "second hand" as apposed to sitting on a shelf
> somewhere and never sold? I have a few old processors I never got around
> to installing.

Of course not! But if you bought it when the CPU was introduced, the
chance of being 2nd hand or recycled one would be low.

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[Al Drake]

On 7/27/2015 8:13 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 27/7/15 7:53 PM, Al Drake wrote:
>> Sorry if I seem to be missing something but what does the part # have to
>> do with it being "second hand" as apposed to sitting on a shelf
>> somewhere and never sold? I have a few old processors I never got around
>> to installing.
>
> Of course not! But if you bought it when the CPU was introduced, the
> chance of being 2nd hand or recycled one would be low.

Very true but I don't see my question being answered which is "how do
you tell"?

Your claim was that some sell used as new and to "be careful"

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 28/7/15 3:02 AM, Al Drake wrote:
> Very true but I don't see my question being answered which is "how do
> you tell"?
> Your claim was that some sell used as new and to "be careful"

Examine the metal surface of the CPU?
Used ones might have scratch marks left by heat-sinks?
Serial number check using CPU-Z?